 Today's podcast is brought to you by FreshBooks.com. Get a 30-day free trial at gofreshbooks.com forward slash David Feldman show. The David Feldman radio program is made possible by listeners like you. You sad pathetic humps. Hello, hello, hello. This is the David Feldman show hosted by Colleen Worthman. What? I'm back. I'm back. And I'm hosting today. And guess who? The David Feldman shows hosted by Colleen Worthman's very special guest is, yup, David Feldman. The tables have turned. And I'm going to ask David a whole bunch of questions that I wrote myself and he has not seen. And here's how it's going to go, David. Do you want to say hi to the people? Hello. He's cowering. His testicles are in his lungs. I'm hiding them from you. Yes. Well, I was going to eat them. Let's dive in, shall we? Okay. Okay. What are your favorite words that you like to use in comedy? What are my favorite words that I like to use? Wow. Do you have any? Cost-benefit analysis? Seriously. If I can say cost-benefit analysis, it just seems to give some kind of stature to whatever I'm saying. This is either in joke writing, comedy writing, or stand-up. And maybe they're different. I and me, mine, whatever success I had as a stand-up comic, the breakthrough for me in the... Okay, I'm getting a... You tell me if I'm getting pompous and stuff, because I'm going to be honest with you. That's what I want. The breakthrough for me as a comedian was when I made a rule that every joke had to have either I or me in it. And why is that? Because I went through a period where I was doing political satire, and it was more about my being sharp and smart than being funny. And I remember I did Conan. The first time I did Conan, he walked up to me and said, You're very smart. I hate smart. And I wanted to get back on Conan real quickly, and I knew what he meant by that. That I had done a good first shot on Conan, but it was showcasing my intellect more than it was me or being funny. And I made a vow to myself that I would never tell a joke on Conan that didn't have I or me in it, so that all the jokes would be at my expense, as opposed to anybody else's expense. So even if I was talking about my family or Bill Clinton, in the end, the joke had a reveal that I was a complete and utter fool. So my favorite words are I and me. And the narcissism. You know, playing up the narcissism. That plays up the narcissism, and the jokes will always be at my expense. If the jokes are always at my expense, then I'm free to say almost anything. It indemnifies me. Do you have favorite words in general? I'll tell you what word I hate. Or myriad. Myriad? Why? I just find it, I just hate that word. I find it pretentious and overused. And I'm old enough now to see cycles. It comes back and disappears. It comes back. I'm not a grammar policeman because I'm not smart enough, but I just, I hate the word myriad. For some reason, I've outgrown this, but I found as a young adult, there was something, the word twinkie, I hated. I found it unattractive if a woman said the word twinkie. I don't know why. Like in a dating context or at all? She said it came out of a woman's mouth. I just found the word. I know it's a cream filled pastry. That's, maybe that's why, but I just always hated to hear a woman say the word twinkie. And I find racist jokes coming out of a woman's mouth to be not funny. Are racist jokes coming out of a man's mouth funny to you? To me, yes. I think anything that's hateful and like an anti-Semitic joke, I'm Jewish. I will laugh at an anti-Semitic joke. I'll laugh at a Holocaust joke. My sexism and one of my daughters has complained about this is one of them. I just, I confess to being turned off, although Lisa Lampinelli makes me... Wait, do you mean sexually turned off or just, or like comedically as a human being turned off? Well, I'm getting into trouble. I'll say this. Yes, you are. I am. It's a form of sexism and I've, my daughter has complained about this. I don't think it's attractive. Wait, do you mean, but do you mean sexually attractive or do you mean like, eww, that person is actually a bad person? Both. Interesting. Yeah. So you assume that a man is basically a good person and attractive if they, if they say a racist joke? No, I, well, when I say racist, to me racism is the worst thing, you know, worst form of humor. Clearly not sexism. And sexism. And sexism. I've learned that, to be honest with you, I've learned that sexism isn't as funny as I thought it was. To you. To me. Yes. I've learned that. I've kind of, I had a theory, I had several theories about sexist humor and racist humors that I've, humors that I've reinvented. Y-O-O-M-E-R-S? Yes. Okay. The jokes that come from our liver are splenetic. Is that what the humors were? No, spleen is splenetic. But what were the humors? Oh, um, bile, blood, something and something? You talking about my, the sheets in my bed or the humors? Let's go on. What was the... Yeah, this is not good. No. All right. What was the quite the words I hate? Well, I asked about favorite words in general and then you started talking about words that you love and now you're talking about how... Can I relax and think for a second? You want to get back to that one? No, let me just think. My favorite words... You should just always relax. Okay. My favorite words... Beautiful? Mm-hmm. I think the word beautiful is a... A freighted word. What do you mean by freighted? It carries with it a lot of power and controversy that I embrace. Cool. Okay, cool. I think beauty... Go ahead. Okay. A novel you love that it would surprise people to know. Would you name it please? I don't think it would... Okay, first of all, I'm not... I don't love fiction. Okay. Yes. No, I know. But that's why I'm asking this. So I would sound smarter than I really am. Sister Carrie. Oh, I love that book. Is it Dryden? Drizer. Drizer. Theodore Drizer. Theodore Drizer. I think that would surprise people because he was an anti-Semite. Well, he was German. And well written. Fun fact. Fun fact. His wife fixed most of his sentences. Really? Yeah, because he was a native German speaker. English was his second language. And he would make lots of grammar mistakes and stuff like that. And she would smooth out his tone. She was the second author of most of his books. Right. I don't... I think that would just surprise people. And for some reason, I don't think this would surprise people. The Great Gatsby. But I'm not a big novel. My sister gives me novels to read. I'll read a couple a year, but I'm not... I don't have the time to lose myself in fiction other than my life, which is a fiction. Right. Okay. Is there a visual artist who means a lot to you? Visual artist? Or with whom you identify, let's say. Not in terms of like their biography, but like their work speaks to you in a profound way. You're listening to the David Feldman show hosted by Colleen Worthman. You're talking about a painter, right? Or a photographer? A painter, a sculptor, photographer, installation artist, anything. I would say Maple Thorpe's early fisting always appealed to me. Okay. David's smirking. This is a lie. The later fisting I thought was too commercial. You have to answer this question for real. It was grandiose. Visual... I like parts of the David. How come you won't answer this question? Because I feel that there was a time in my life when I lived at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. And those days have passed. I've stopped going. What about contemporary art? I like hopper. I think hopper speaks to me. I like the chicken hawks. Not the night hawks. The chicken hawks. The grand bus station. The chicken hawks. They're beautiful. They usually come from Minnesota. They're blonde. They're about 22. No, no. Those are the chickens. The chicken hawks are the people who pray. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You're absolutely right. Okay. Are you done answering the question? I'm going to move on. Thank you. Thank you. You've got to know what a chicken hawk is. In terms of art, I don't want to name something just... I don't want to be like Gary Johnson, like name a world leader you appreciate. And if you can think of one... Okay. Well, we got hopper. I'm ready to move on. I like Renoir. I like Degas. I like Monet. Very conservative tastes. I've grown... I kind of appreciate Picasso because just he did everything. I'm not a big fan of like Da Vinci and the Renaissance stuff because it's just... Are you just running on a joke thing now? Because I can go move to the next question. No, I'm being honest. Oh, okay. I'm thinking out loud about maybe Georgia O'Queefe. I like... I'm moving on. What? Because you're wasting time with bullshit joke answers. No, no, okay. What is an instrument you wish you could play? No, no, no, no, no. We're moving on. We're moving on. I like Bierstadt. I like the images of the West painted by Europeans. Wasn't Bierstadt a European? I don't know who that is. I think he painted the West literally on the Central Park South. He would go out to the West, paint it, and then finish up the paintings. Is it Atelier? How do you pronounce it? Atelier. Yeah. Central Park South. Hmm. Okay. We'll come back to that. Okay. Is there an instrument that you wish you could play, musical instrument? Guitar, because I play the piano, and it doesn't get you laid. And I wish I never took piano lessons, because I took 12 years of piano lessons, and it involved musical theory, and it was very regimented, and I wasn't any good at it, and it was... I was a mama's boy, and it was too much music for me to have fun with it. Whereas my friends who just took guitar lessons, they could just pluck out some notes, and it sounded just as good, and it was way sexier than sitting down. And remember, I wanted to get laid, and I taught myself funeral for a friend. The whole thing took me four years in college. I was going to master funeral for it. The Elton John thing did not get me laid. Okay. So I wish I could play the guitar. Okay. And I think, and I resent lead guitarists, because I don't think you have to be that musically trained to get away with... It's easy for lead guitarists, in other words, to be overrated. Yeah. I think you just stand up there with a guitar, and wear tight jeans, and keep your hair plugs long, and women will want to have sex with you. Yeah, but that's a woman who's having sex with a guitarist. Really? You don't find that... It's so phallic. No, that's like an outdated, very outdated thing. Well, what instrument do women... I don't... I can't speak for all women. And I wish... I find that to be like a really hoary cliche, H-O-A-R-Y. Old. Yeah. Biggest regret from childhood. Oh, God. If you don't want to say it, you don't... No, no, I want to make a joke. I know you do. I can see your corners. What joke do I want to make? Not fucking more old men or something. Yeah, I was going to say not thanking my dad every time he molested me. Yeah. Because he's gone. Yeah. Biggest regret from childhood. I would say narcissism, anxiety, self-centeredness, wanting to succeed, always focusing on what was instilled in me by my father, which was have a career, get into a good school, take a big bite out of the American pie, and not understanding that we're in this together. That I was trained to be a liberal, and I was a liberal, but to be... I was brought up to be a limousine liberal. Inadvertently, I don't think my father and mother consciously... My mother was a communist, but then they turned. So I was brought up to have liberal values, but make sure you come first and then take care of other people. And you feel like you were overly attentive to that desire? Yeah. From day one, my consciousness was always this, to be paternalistic as opposed to empathetic, to be detached from the plight of people, as opposed to really understanding what people are going through. Gotcha. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, it does. It's a problem that some Jews and some blacks have. There's a tension between blacks and Jews in certain areas of America, where some Jews are only... Again, this is a very dangerous area, but there has been in the past tension between blacks and Jews. Jews of my generation were shocked to learn that there was a strain of antisemitism in the black community. Where does this come from? A lot of it... And this is anecdotal, but a lot of the strain comes from people like me being raised to be paternalistic towards black people. Being liberal, the Jews were the ones who were behind the civil rights movement, and we sure... Right, and acted like they were the best ones at slavery. Yeah, well, that's... But when you go into the ghetto and you have Jews running businesses and being paternalistic as opposed to understanding it creates a lot of tension. And there's also a theory that it's a sibling rivalry, that blacks and Jews are so close in terms of identifying similar problems that they don't understand each other. Sure. And they're not... What was the question I don't remember? Regrets from childhood. Paternalistic as opposed to empathetic. I don't remember myself being a bully growing up. I remember being bullied, but I worry that I might have bullied a couple of kids. Inadvertently because of my brilliant rapier wit. Okay. I have a rapier wit. Well, it's certainly rapey. It's like Bill Cosby has a rapier wit. Joke is so six months ago. I know. Alex Brazell is cracking up over there. If you could have another profession, slash vocation, you can choose either. And you could be great at it. What would you choose? If I could be great at any... Yeah. You don't have to use your comedian self. If you could just be straight up great at any profession other than doing comedy. Well, being great at anything. A professor maybe? Professor. Being a professor. Of what? Law. Really? I like to be Ralph Nader would be great to be a great liberal lawyer, progressive lawyer who could really hurt people for the right reasons, because I do think you need to hurt people. I don't think you need... I think you need to destroy bad institutions, but I think you need to hurt people. I think they're bad people who need to be... I don't know. Lawyer, maybe a great journalist. We can go with lawyer? Also a powerful businessman. Interesting one. Yeah, like a multi-billionaire. Like a Warren Buffett? Yeah. How come? Then because money would buy me politicians and I could really mess with people. I mean, I could just do things. I could really hurt bad people. Nice. And, you know, help people by hurting people. Cool. Now I want to ask some questions about the comedy world. Okay. Just briefly. Mike Sacks, who has interviewed lots of comics, has noted that something like 70% or three-quarters of them have an OCD type behavior or have been diagnosed with AIDS. Do you have OCDs? I would say so. Like what? Well, joke writing. No, no, but I mean actual OCD. There's flipping the light switch. Well, I would say I've channeled a lot. I'm a hand washer. Other people's hands. That's how I realize my hands are clean. It's other people. If I'm in a men's room, I will often wash another man's hands. That must go over great. And then I'll wash their penises with my mouth. So horny. I'm a hand washer. I have to wash my hands. Like if I eat, I have to wash my hands before, during, and after. I cannot stand grease on my hands. Is your worst nightmare like a barbecue situation? Yeah. Or like wings? Yes. So yeah, and but with jokes, if there's a perfect storm of a joke, like Monica Lewinsky getting into a car accident. I remember that where I could not stop thinking of jokes about that. So if I'm in a conversation with somebody and they'll be like, somebody would say I was in Poland and I went to a community college there. Well, I stop thinking because that's a perfect storm for a joke. You know, Polish people in college. And then I just want to write, see if I can get to 100. So are you like talking to them in the front of your mind and the back of your mind is like doing alts? Yes. Cool. And then I have certain OCD. I think you can channel OCD into a good thing. I think. For sure. Yeah. Okay. I want to talk about a thing that I perceive as happening in comedy on television right now. Oh, and when I murder somebody, it always has to be eight feet in the ground. Like when I bury them. I know that you like six feet. That makes practical sense because like if the FBI people find the grave, they go six feet down. There's nothing there. They're like, well, let's pack it up and go home. Right. But I could do seven and it's something about the number eight. I don't know what it is, but it's got to be eight. I have an OCD thing with number eight. What is that? When I clean my glasses, I rinse the lenses. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. And then I've turned them around and go one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Really? Eight is nice and symmetrical. Yeah. Wow. I used to also have an OCD thing where I would do like, sort of like these palm fronds that would never end. Like when I would draw on my notebook doodling, it would all be connected in one big thing, but there would be sort of these finger-like fronds. They look kind of like talons or claws or feathers or whatever. And I would just do whole pages of those. And is that OCD or just? For me, it was very OCD. Like I had to make sure that they were precise and then I would like, I would symmetrify them on the other side of the page. So that was kind of like the most complicated fleur-de-lis ever. Right. Some things that we call OCD, I believe are activities that we discover are pleasing to the brain and that we can't, it becomes addictive. Like I used to edit video and audio and do cartooning. I wasn't any good at it. But it hit a pleasure center in my brain and I became addicted to it. I used to say, no, this is OCD. This is the only thing I can control. The only thing I can control are these, is what I'm editing. And it's a form of OCD. No, it's just something that I don't think it kind of trivializes real OCD. I agree. I do think a lot of people say OCD when they simply mean like a little bit anal. Like, oh my God, I'm so OCD about having to have a clean desk at work. It's like, well, are you really, though, can you not leave the office unless you've wiped the top of your desk 12 times, 6 times on each side? Right. So like you just said a little bit anal. And now I've got 5, like my mind. Oh, so I just triggered your joke writing OCD inside your mind. Yeah. Okay. Well, you know, see what you can do to switch it off because it needs your whole brain for a few of these. Okay. I want to get back to the question I was asking before, which is there's this thing happening on TV right now. And I don't know if you share this perception, but I think there are a lot of unfunny comedies being marketed right now. Or they're like shows that are just sort of shows about people. Maybe they're dramas. Sometimes the stakes aren't very high. And there are no jokes in them. Why do you think this is a trend right now? And why do you think they're being marketed as comedies? Well, what I'm feeling, there are two opinions in there opposite. I can answer it. There's one answer I could give you that comes from the place in my heart that feels the universe is expanding. I'll never be broke and that I'll always be taken care of. Then I can give you the answer from... Please give me both answers. The place in my bowels that feels threatened, hateful, and the world is being run by morons. So I can give you both answers. Both answers, please. Which one would you like first? The expansive one. That there's a source that gives us everything we need? Yeah. The positive to us? Yes. Ever thus, that there's always been a market for McDonald's and crappy comedy. Nothing has changed. We only remember through the mists of time. By the way, I hate that phrase, the mists of time. But through the mists of time, we only... The myriad of mists? The myriad of mists. We only remember Rod Serling, Requiem for a Heavyweight. We only remember Patty Chayefsky's work on television. We only remember your show of shows. So we have this idea that there was this golden age of television, when in fact, as Newton Minow, the former head of the FCC, said of television, it's the vast wasteland. Right. For the most part, everything a culture produces is crap. We only remember the great stuff. And even the great stuff, when you go back and look at it, like the Sting, for example, which wasn't television or comedy. I mean, the Sting was crap. And Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid was crap. I don't understand why people think that that's the greatest movie ever written. I do not get it. To me, it's so stupid and corny. Well, it's just because it's Robert Redford. It's five minutes of fucking biking around in a circle. It sucks. It's Paul Newman and Robert Redford. I mean, they look sensational, but so what? Yeah. I mean, a lot of Paul Newman's movie... God bless Paul Newman and his politics a lot. A lot of his movies just, you know, but anyway. So they'll always be bad comedy. Okay. Bowel answer, please. The foul answer is there was a time when television in the 50s was only marketed to rich people and educated people in New York City and Chicago and places where urban, educated elites were the only ones who had television. So comedy was much more sophisticated because the only people watching television were sophisticated. First, the problem with that is go see a Broadway play that's called a comedy and you won't laugh once. So I've only left heart at a play that was marketed as a comedy once and that was Clyburn Park, which is legitimately hilarious. But most comedies on Broadway are not funny. You go, really? They have class signifiers, which are clever and evoke laughter of recognition, but there's no hard punches. Yeah. I mean, people go, why don't you like Broadway plays? Because they're not really funny, like 90% of them. I've had some friends who were in plays and I go, then again, I'm not... I don't go to that many Broadway plays. But what has happened is that comedy, good comedy has teeth and we live in a culture now and I don't really believe this, but we live in a culture now where nobody wants to feel stupid because they are stupid. This is a stupid country and comedy, good comedy, requires you to get the joke. And an audience doesn't want to feel left out. So when you go for the lowest common denominator, which is another phrase I hate, but when you just want everybody on board, you got to be really stupid and not funny. Not funny. That the audience not laughing is a good thing because it means nobody's feeling superior. The great equalizer is non laughter. And then we'll sweeten it later. I'm always amazed when I work on a show that they give a shit what the studio audience thinks. And I've given up, but I used to say this. I used to say, who gives a shit what the audience? We're going to sweeten this anyway. So comedy is fascism. I've been doing this long enough. We have a room full of professionals. We know what's funny. Who cares if it got a laugh from the studio audience? The people who come to see television shows, they should be considered, well, euthanized. But they're just a slice of the millions of people are going to see this. They should not be dictating what's funny or what's, I should be dictating what's funny. And on that tip, let's talk briefly about Kevin Meany. Because you tweeted about Kevin after he died. He died yesterday. Yes, he did. I just found out this morning. Kevin, can you talk a little bit about Kevin and his? Well, I didn't know Kevin that well. I started out in San Francisco and he was one of the, you know, in Boston and San Francisco in the 80s. He was up there with Robin and Dana. I mean, I don't even want to mention the names. But Kevin invented or just was, came fully formed into this world as a comic who was unlike any other. Absolutely fearless and was too good for this world in terms of comedy. He was just too good. What do you mean too good for this world? His style was completely original. And one of the things I said is that he inspired generations of comics specifically from Boston and San Francisco to remember that it's the performer who dictates what's funny, not the audience. Right. And you tweeted that and a lot of people have been retweeting it. It's a sensation and now you have a new career as a memorial tweeter. That's your niche. You know, that's the thing about Facebook and Twitter is you tweet out something like that and all of a sudden it starts getting like retweeted and liked and you forget that Kevin Meany, this miracle of comedy is now gone and you start feeling good that you're being liked and accepted. Yeah. Oh, do you watch that show Black Mirror? Have you ever seen it? I've heard such great things about it. Okay. There's the first one. Like one of the first episodes of it's actually the first episode of season three on Netflix. It stars Bryce Dallas Howard, who I think is Ron Howard's daughter. She's a very good actor. She was in the help and some other stuff. Right. And it takes place in like a pretty near. Moe Howard's daughter, I believe. That's weird. Yeah. That's why she poked herself in the eyes and yanked her own hair and then fell over that table halfway through the episode. I thought rather arcane choice for that scene, but okay. See, that's wonderful. My instinct was and I held back was to say I'm pretty sure that she's Moe Howard's daughter and not Ron Howard's because when I poked her in the eye, she kind of took it. She like where I was like the joke for me would be that I would be hitting that you would be doing the violence towards the woman. I can't do that. But to me, that's because I'm an actor or, you know, have been an actor for most of my adult life. I think, oh, well, genetically, then you would get those, you know, right? Stick traits and you would incorporate them into your work. But now, so let me ask you a question about that. Sure. Violence towards women. No, we're not going down this road. I'm going to stop this right now. I'm not going to use do these. All right. Colleen represents all women. So I'll ask a reductionist question. Right. To do good synthesis and your show. It's your show. No. It's your show. Okay. Do you believe that comedy is the best genre to address class issues? No, I don't think comedy accomplishes anything other than making you laugh, forget your problems. And some of those problems are class issues. So I think that comedy accomplishes nothing other than making you feel good. And if there's a problem that needs to be addressed, you shouldn't feel good about it. So I don't think as much of my career has been spent on quote unquote political shows. And I don't think we move the needle one bit. In fact, I think we've kept the needle right where it is or it's gone down. Were you being comedy people? I think political satirists shows that talk about politics accomplish nothing other than having fun at the expense of whatever problem this country is facing. They accomplishes nothing. I don't think it betters the world. I think the country, I mean, maybe you could argue it's drawing attention to some issues, but they tend to be echo chambers. Okay. What do you think is the biggest difference between stand-up comedy culture now and when you were coming up? The sense of community. There was a community in San Francisco, a comedy community in San Francisco that I gravitated to. There was one in Boston. And again, I know I sound old, but there were standards. Certainly in Boston, San Francisco, you had to have Kevin Meany's values to get stage time in the city. It wasn't about getting laughs. This is true about San Francisco. It wasn't about getting laughs. It was the quality of the laughs. And it was hypercritical. You had a generation of comics who were very critical of each other. There were a lot of guys who stood in the back of the room and watched other comics and gossiped about other comics. And you played to the back of the room in San Francisco and Boston to get the approval of the other comics before you got the approval of the audience. I think it's changed because I've been running with the young ones here in New York. And I'm not saying it's better or worse, but there is this phenomenon among the 20-something comics that they're not as competitive, which is good because I don't think competition is good. There's a sense of community and they only see the good in other comics. They are that everybody is funny. Do you see that as a career strategy? As a professional strategy or a social strategy? I don't know. I find it interesting. I'm a bit detached because I'm really running with my children. They're my kids' age. I'm doing shows with young comics in their mid-20s. And they just love comedy. They see comedy as an end. I'm making a sweeping generalization. But I do pick up that they see comedy as an end. Like music. Music just feels good. And they like music and they like comedy. And I've always found comedy to be a means by which to hurt somebody. You know, to isolate myself or another person and hurt them with comedy. It's a weapon. Things change. And I'm sure they're making a sweeping generalization. That to me is the difference between Letterman as a late night show and Fallon or Corden as late night shows. Letterman was clearly skewering his guest and the whole notion of a late night show and Fallon is just kind of lovingly embracing. It gets back to what I said about Kevin Meany. Kevin Meany instilled in me and generations of comedians that the performer dictates what's funny, not the audience. And I learned what was funny by watching Woody Allen and Mel Brooks and Mort Saul and whomever. And I said, OK, they're the experts. They're teaching me what's funny. The switch because of social media and the like generation. Oh, that reminds me. Well, I think the problem that Fallon is up against is if it's all about likes, you have to be likeable. And quite frankly, I'm not so sure 5,000 likes on Facebook and Twitter translates into ratings and ad sales. But it's... It may not. That's what they're hoping for, right? Well, it's something that you can hold and point to. But who are these people liking something on Twitter and Facebook? It's only a small segment of your viewership. So... Wouldn't one argue that the social media savvy people are the demo of desire? They can be measured. It's a measurement. I don't know if they're actually... I think we're being fed this lie about YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter. A lot of those likes are just robots. They're fake. You know that story that the LA Times couldn't understand how a guy running for district attorney had more likes on YouTube than there were registered voters in his district. I don't know this story. So what they did is somebody explained it to him, the reporter, and he went and literally videotaped 20 minutes of paint drying. He posted it on YouTube and then paid for likes and views. Oh, well paid likes and views are different. Yeah. And when it got up to about 50,000, the publisher of the LA Times said, you proved your point, we're not paying for anymore. So a lot of what Generation Like thinks is being liked, it's as old as the scriptures, as old as rock and roll. No, it's Paola. The song that keeps getting played on the radio, there was cocaine and money exchanged for you. And then you see it long enough and then you become indoctrinated. You go, oh, this must be good. I mean, once you get comfortable with an idea or a song or a premise, you will then accept it and enjoy it. Right. So, oh, when I was talking about Black Mirror before? Yes. The first episode of season three, Bryce Dallas Howard plays this kind of anxious, aspirational woman who is frantically liking things, takes place in the near future and there's this app where people have this thing installed in their eye where you look at someone and it scans their face and gives you their rating, their social rating. So you can immediately see if they're like a high status or low status person or whatever. And people like flick and sort of rate each other all the time. Oh, that's great. It's so good. It's really, I mean, especially in light of this thing that we're talking about. I think you would find it a delightful episode. And I believe it was written by Rashida Jones and Mike Scher. Ah. Yeah. Actually, that guy Charlie Brooker who created the series came out of comedy in the U.K. And they're generally not really funny. They have very, very dark comic moments, but you can see where his comic impulses have led him toward horrific sci-fi conclusions. Right. So on that tip, do you have a science-related obsession that makes you either fear or love the future? My God. That's all I think about. Well? The only silver lining to getting older is the comfort of not having to live in the future. But I fear for the future. I think that democracy is doomed because we've been atomized through technology. We only want our own reality, and soon we will be given it. We're already almost there. Right. We're in pods of like-mindedness. Yeah. And Washington and politics is all about community. And when it becomes scary like Trump, we retreat to our pod and say, well, if it doesn't affect me, maybe it's not so bad. And I think we're moving much faster than we're willing to admit to ourselves to a virtual existence where I have a massage chair. Mm-hmm. And it's pretty good. It's not as good as the human touch. I mean, skin hunger is a serious problem in this country. There's actually, it's called skin famine where people are- I've never heard that phrase before. Yeah, where our bodies crave the touch of other human beings. That being said, you know, how many years away are we from a massage chair that tricks the body into thinking it's another human being touching you? Mm-hmm. And once that happens, and I don't have to worry about being told that I left the light on in the kitchen while I'm getting a massage, how do you- Don't you live alone now, David? Well, I'm just saying that why would I want a back rub or more from something that's going to remind me that it has to be up at 7 a.m. so can you hurry up and finish? Mm-hmm. As opposed to a thing that you turn the switch. Sure. And does exactly what I want. Mm-hmm. And if it thinks the toilet seat was left up, it will go and put it down. This is a really gendered argument. Of course. Interesting. You'll learn either to urinate standing up or it won't require urination. Okay, so you want a world without women? No, I'm saying I fear for the future. I'm saying that don't you think that human beings choose the path of least resistance? Not always. Considering the insane amount of energy people will expend for things they think they will enjoy. I feel like hope springs eternal. And that's like a horrible thing and a delightful thing. Shadow Stevens, who's a brilliant man. Is he? Yeah, hence a meditation. One of the greatest guests I've ever had on. Interesting. I have a show that I do. You don't know this, but I do a podcast on a radio show. Yeah, no. And this is much better though. It really is. Shadow Stevens showed me the opening of Thief of Baghdad. Wait, what is Thief of Baghdad? It's a silent movie. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it begins with happiness must be earned. It's such a great message, happiness. And I believe that you have to earn happiness and you're not supposed to be happy all the time. And happiness comes from getting on the treadmill and running and not wanting to do it and feeling good, you know, doing things that you don't want to do. But... They had treadmills in the silent films? Evolution, you know, we evolve. The brain evolves and technology... Allegedly. Well, and technology is rewiring our brain and we're in the not too distant future. I'm talking about like seven years from now. In the year of the tux-medicated pad? Yes. That happiness will no longer have to be earned. I mean, we've already had a... But will it be actual happiness or will it be satiation? I don't think yet. If you're shooting heroin, you don't ask that question. You're just happy. I disagree. But I've never shot heroin. Just snorted it. No, I don't like hard drugs. I'm scared of them. I've never done them. Me neither. I've never done heroin. Yeah, I can't... I came to New York during college in the height of the AIDS epidemic here. And you would see... That's why there was an... I caused it. You're butane du gât. Yeah, no, but there's nothing less appealing to me than heroin because all I see is the horrible effects of it everywhere. Even now, in Harlem where I live with my husband, there's a methadone clinic, a block away from our house. And the people look like mutants. Not because they're on methadone as opposed to heroin. I don't think heroin is glamorous or cool. I don't get it. Because these people look like they've been shot in the face with a rifle. They have buckshot marks in their face. Their jaws are always weird. They're either sticking out too far or partially removed. It's just like a total shit show. I don't understand the magic of heroin. Well, first of all, maybe that's why they do heroin. Or secondly, instead of methadone... No, you can see it's worn. Maybe they need Botox instead of methadone. Okay. Well, supposedly, though... I agree with you. But I've been told... I mean, heroin I was brought up just to stay away from heroin. But... I've been told that some people function very well. Chipping. What's chipping? Just doing a little each day. I mean, God bless. I don't know. And there are people who are very successful who can handle it. Right. Well, and now there's allegedly this productivity thing or creativity thing that people in Silicon Valley do where they do like three percent of a dose of LSD or something. Because it makes them less stressed and more creative in all this shit. I didn't hear about it, really? Yeah. Yeah. Like micro dosages of LSD. Yeah. So they're just constantly... Yeah, they take it like every day. Like during the weekday. Oh, well, I've never done LSD. I tried it once in college. I don't know. I didn't really see what was so great about it. But I hardly had any because I was scared that I would lose my mind. Right. Me too. You know? I already had it. When I was in high school, Len Bias died of cocaine. That made a huge impact on me. Then I came here, AIDS. Then cocaine was like, I was too poor. And now I just don't like people who participate in that whole culture, socio-economic and political and otherwise. I just feel like there's no winning. I'm scared of frying my brain. I'm scared of my spinal fluid leaking out. Like MDMA or whatever. That you're going to be permanently depressed for the rest of your life. Nah, I'm just not worth it. If that's what you have to do in order to justify standing around in the mud and listening to a band of horses at some fucking festival in California, nah. It's not worth it to me. Right. I'll listen at home on my little headphones. Right. Anyway. Do you harbor any conspiracy theories? Yes. Like what? Can I do a preamble? Can you make it quick? Yeah. I believe in conspiracy theories when I feel alienated, disenfranchised and broke. Okay. When I feel that I, and I, there was a time in the 90s when I was making a lot of money. I was young, desirable, and I scorned people who had conspiracy theories because I believe that I was close to the top, that I saw the inner workings of corporate America. This was in the 90s. I thought, oh, you're foolish. I know what's really going on, and there's no conspiracy. As I fall further down the economic ladder, I see conspiracies. So I think there's some relationship to, I think if you're in the richest 1%, you realize how everybody just hates one another and they can't work together so there couldn't possibly be a conspiracy. But when you're not in the 1%, you believe, oh, there's a conspiracy among the 1% against the 99%. I do believe in conspiracies. I think Wall Street's a conspiracy. I think there is a money conspiracy that is as old as the scriptures. Once again, I'm going to say that. When people have money, they conspire to keep it. And they will do anything to keep their money, including sending your kid off to die for their money. And they have no problem co-opting religion to make them feel good about having your child die for their wealth. So there is a, yeah, I do believe in conspiracies. I believe that Kennedy, there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy. I believe... Do you think it was Castro or the mob or someone else? I think there were a lot of people who wanted him dead. And I think a lot of people turned a blind eye to guns pointing at him. And if he wasn't going to die that day, he was going to die the next day. I think the mafia wanted him dead. I think there were elements within the CIA that wanted him dead. Interesting. There were people who wanted Johnson to become president, who wanted him dead, but I don't think Johnson was involved. But I think there were people... That's why I think Trump is so dangerous where you go, yeah, he's an idiot, but there are people who are supporting him who could put him into office without his even knowing it and then make him do things. I believe in conspiracies. What do you think was or is the most interesting political year? Well, 68. This isn't this. This is not interesting to me. What, the question is not interesting? No, no, no, this year is not interesting. It's sad and it's not nourishing. It's not puff pastry. It's a rehash of every horrible thing that we... You know what it is? It's like a stale panini from the deli that's not quite all the way heated up. But you're hungry. You're gonna eat it anyway and you're like... Yeah, and you know, I don't hate Trump. I hate America. I hate the Republican Party for allowing this to happen. I watched him at the Al Smith dinner. Oh yeah, I watched that too. And you know, it's so easy to hate Donald Trump. I've been hating him since the 80s. But you go, why does Ivanka love him? Why does... Because I think his kids genuinely love him. And I... Watching him smile and I should have won the Emmy and I didn't and being... I think he's just a goofball... A heart... Except for the raping of women. He's a harmless... I think his children don't know about the rape and the groping. So I think that they view him as a harmless goofball who you shouldn't take all that seriously. There's something almost sad about him if you don't know that he's a rapist or if you don't take his political views on Arabs and Mexicans. Seriously, he's just the crazy uncle and... But is it necessary to compartmentalize that way? Those are all part of the same person. But I agree. I think that he's... I have a rule... At any television show I work on, I have a rule you have to protect people from themselves. If somebody is missing all their teeth, you don't put them on television. If somebody's drunk, you don't put them on television. Even though they want to be on television, you have a responsibility not to put them on television. You're exploiting them. Donald Trump should be in prison for rape for his views on Mexicans and Islam. He's a horrible human being, but he should be protected from himself by the powers that be. He seems profoundly unwilling to listen to the powers that be, though. I mean, even Roger Ailes, who's objectively way more powerful than Donald Trump, was like, this motherfucker won't listen to me. I'm wasting my time. Peace out. Yeah, so there is something... I mean, do you... I'm not allowed to ask you a question. Yeah, you are. Is he a rapist? Yeah. Is that the question? Yeah, I think it's hard to forgive... That was not a question. I know. It's hard to forgive somebody who's a rapist and a bigot, and he's destroyed the lives of thousands of New Yorkers, you know, by evicting them. And ruining the entire skyline of the West Side. Yeah. All that being said, if I were his daughter, I can see watching him at the Al Smith Center. I can see how you turn a blind eye to all that and find him just to be a lovable goofball. And I don't hate him as much as I do to the people who are using this sociopath who doesn't belong on television. To me, that's the greater sin, is taking a very sick deviant and using him when he needs to be locked up and he needs to be given help, and he's a rapist, as is Bill Clinton. Okay. Bill Clinton's a rapist. And Hillary protected and shamed his victims. Protected him and shamed his victims. Right. And we should have found somebody better, like Elizabeth Warren. You know, there's something wrong when you're using government and the presidency to replay the past and make it better. It's what George W. Bush did. Or was trying to do. Yeah. This country is all about fresh and new. It's all about strange. We like the strange. I'm being sexist, but we like strange. You see, that reference was so outdated. I didn't even identify it at first. And Hillary is just going to be... Hillary is too qualified to be president. Okay. I'm going to stop you because this has become a rant. Let me ask you another question. Good. I like this. Person who is the shittiest politician and politician who's the shittiest person. Okay. Wow. Okay. I'm getting over cold. First part of the question. Person who is the shittiest politician. Name that person. And also please name the person... Wait. Person who's the shittiest politician. Jimmy Carter. Okay. Politician who's the shittiest person. Reagan. Okay. There we go. But you're saying like a successful politician. Yes. Well, they can be obscure too, but then that'll require some unpacking. But I feel like Carter and Reagan... That's too easy, but... Is it too easy or is it just true? When you say politician who is the shittiest person implies that they're a good politician. Yeah. Successful politician. Yes. Shitty person. Yes. Or effective politician you incredibly admire. Or either like diabolically effective. I mean these fork out into multiple options. But I just wanted to hear your like first impulse. My first impulse is that Barack Obama is a much better politician than we give him credit for. Mm-hmm. And I think he is too good for this country. I don't think we deserve him. I think he's a miracle. Mm-hmm. And that's just because he's killed American citizens overseas with drones. That's... No, I mean, you know, he's had to make... I think he's a... I don't know. My suspicion is that he was spotted by Harry Reid. I think Harry Reid, the outgoing Democratic majority leader from Nevada, I think he was the one who spotted Obama. Mm-hmm. And he was vetted. He was probably vetted by the CIA. I do believe in conspiracies. I don't think you're going to get... Who wouldn't be? Yeah. If they're being groomed to be president. Yeah, I think they vetted him. I think he was spotted at Harvard Law. I went to Columbia with Obama. Undergrad? Yeah. Really? Did you know him? Undergrad? I'll tell you I did. That's a no. But nobody was... Then why do you even tell me that? People... Nobody picked me. I noticed that at college, you kind of get picked. Why? Just, you know, there's a system where they identify special people. Special needs? Then you should have been picked. Right. And nobody was going, come with me. I know that he was... But what did you major in at Columbia? English. Oh, well, so what was he? What was his major? I don't know. You probably didn't have any of the same circles. But, yeah, there were no... Is it because you're Jewish and he's black? Blow. He just assumed you were going to be paternalistic toward him? There were no circles. When I was at Columbia, there were no circles. There was just pot and beer. I'm being serious. But anywhere you go, in any system, any college, your people pick you and they go, you know, come with me. I can help you. And that's the way life works. And I think as you get to Harvard Law, people say, come with me. And people begin to identify this amazing human being along the way. And eventually, I think you're vetted by the CIA and everybody. I think you get into the Senate. I think the Chicago machine vetted him. Well, clearly. Yeah. He's got his teeth on vicious politicking. Yeah. And then he gets to the Senate and Harry Reid goes, oh, this guy's pretty amazing. This guy could be president. That vetting system worked as far as I'm concerned. I think he's amazing. But then how come George W. Bush got through? Different people, different institutions, different vetting systems. Just straight legacy. One of the saving graces of this country is that you have competing ideologies, competing institutions, competing conspiracies. They're all these different cabals contained within our country. And they all want the same thing for different reasons and for different pockets. And the Bush family is a different cabal than the Chicago machine. Sure. And the CIA has its own cells competing against one another. The same way if you work for a corporation, there's cells within the corporation competing against each other. So was Kennedy killed by the CIA? Parts of it. Interesting. It didn't come down from... I can't remember his name. I don't think the CIA officially said kill JFK. I think there were some guys who were working with the mafia off the books, on the books that killed him. That's how conspiracies work. Sure. It's never the official doctrine of exon to cover up climate change. Right. There are elements within exon that are hiring experts in climate change and providing the CEO with plausible deniability. When the leader has plausible deniability... Than anybody else can do anything. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. One last comedy related question. Okay. In your many years of comedy writing... Yes. Have you ever really worked on sitcoms? Yeah, a little. Do you find yourself less drawn to them than one so-called one-off type of events? Or where do they fall for you? Like you worked on Jack and Triumph, but that's definitely formally a different kind of a shell, right? That was a sitcom, and I've had development deals and pilots and Roseanna, a couple other things. sitcoms are... It's not my passion because my passion is politics. So I don't... I can't get hard working on a sitcom. Okay. You know, it's just a different... Alex Brazell is laughing. And everybody's... Here's the thing about sitcom writing. More people... A lot of people can be good at it. It's very hard to learn structure and the formula. sitcom structure and formula. Yeah, but once you do, it's a collaborative medium sitcom writing, and it's very easy to do it. So you can be replaced much... Oh, interesting. Yeah, and it's... A lot of it is luck getting on a show that is a hit, and then the rest of the business starts to think that you had some contribution to that success, and you can... There are a lot of guys who use their Seinfeld credit to further their career. They worked on two episodes? Well, it was Larry and Jerry. So there's something about sitcoms that I just... I don't feel... For me, there wasn't the kind of heavy lifting that didn't feel like real work. It's a lot of committee stuff, and you end up writing a script, and no matter what happens, it gets rewritten 20 times. Yeah, that's what's less appealing about it to me, and I've never worked on any. It just sounds, A, socially exhausting to be in a room trying to yell your ideas out to get them heard and get on the screen or on the page. And also, after something has been rewritten so many times, it loses its animus. I think for... Had I been made different, I wish I loved money more than I loved being funny, because I think that the people who succeed at sitcoms are incredibly funny people, but they put the money first. So they're able to sit for 14 hours in a room. It's like Das Boot. I mean, you're in a room first. Lighting your forts on fire? Yeah, it really is. A lot of these jobs, you're stuck in the same... You're sitting around the same conference table with the same people 14, 18 hours a day. If you're lucky, six days a week. And at some point in the day, you're no longer funny. Yeah. And that's where the money kicks in. And you just have to think about the money. And there are a lot of people who can do that. I wish I were built differently. But don't you feel like just in the course of a writing day, there has to be ebbs and flows just even just bio-rhythmically? Bio-rhythmically, I have one good hour. Which is what? First thing in the morning. Oh, yeah? If you want my... I give... I've told this to people I work for. You know, you're going to get my... You're going to get my best hour. And I'm giving you... The best gift I can give you is my first hour with my first cup of coffee. The rest... I can sit in a room with other writers. And... But in terms of just sitting in front of the computer and typing, my best hour is the fresh out of... You know, I haven't seen the paper. My first two or three cups of coffee. That's my best. Yeah. I think that's the same for a lot of people because you just have relatively recently come out of your dream world. Right. Do you have recurring dreams? Yes. What are they? Do you want to say them? Or would they... Would that diminish their power for you? I have two recurring dreams. One is that in high school, and everybody's graduating but not me, the other recurring dream is that... This is like once a month. I never graduated... I did graduate from college, but the dream is that I didn't graduate from college, but I have one half a semester left. And I'm my age, but I'm graduating from high school and applying to colleges and have to go through four years of college to finish that last half of a semester. So it's graduation anxiety and a bureaucratic nightmare combined. Yeah. It's just a recurring dream that I'm trapped in high school. Did you hate high school? High school is who you are. So I didn't hate it. In fact, as an alcoholic, you go through recovery. You want to get to where you were before you became an alcoholic. Well, I became an alcoholic in college. So my recovery is high school. I've been sober for decades, but in my mind, who I was in high school, warts and all, is who I am because I immediately started drinking in college. So did I. Yeah, so high school is kind of who we are and it's the good with the bad. Well, will you have me back? Absolutely. Was I a good guest? Yes. You gave very good, thoughtful answers. Well, you know, there's a value to, I'm exhausted. That's why you're hosting the show. I don't have pneumonia. I went to the doctor, but I've been sick for a month. I've just been worked to the bone. Yeah, you've been working really hard. And going through a divorce and personal problems. And I just, like people who've been listening, I do a podcast. Oh, really? Never heard it. And they've been interesting. They haven't been hysterically funny because I can't laugh because I start coughing. Right. So it's been, but final, I'll just say one thing and then we'll wrap it up. But, you know, I do this podcast that you should come on and I've been doing it now since 19, 2009. And we've been doing it by any means necessary. Mm-hmm. Just, you know, I don't, we have to deliver the shows any way. Right. And I'm kind of proud of this because the listeners have stuck with me through all the various incarnations. And having you do this is a great way to keep doing content. It doesn't have to be one way. So you're congratulating yourself for being too tired to host the show. Well, you know what? I'm congratulating myself by recognizing, no, I'm congratulating myself because you're a, you're pretty fucking good. And I congratulate myself for knowing how to catch luck. You have very good taste. I do have that. I'll give you that. I do. I do. That's why I'm dressing better. Well, that is a nice sweatshirt. Not for nothing. One of the things I'm paying, now that I'm divorced or almost divorced, I'm paying much closer attention to clothes because I realize... Your look is totally divorced. Yes. FYI. Good year, worn brim, snap brim hat. Well, I'm... And charcoal gray sweatshirt. But, you know, clothes are a reflection of your taste. I mean, it... This doesn't count. It's fine. But I have excellent taste in people. Yes. I do. So can I ask you a question? Sure. When do you leave for Los Angeles? This coming Friday, the 28th. And when do you come back? I don't know, really. The initial contract is through, I don't know, March something? Well... And then it either might flip over to another one immediately or not. I just don't know. So I'll be out there for a little while to start. I hope you succeed. Thank you. Me too. I hope you also succeed. And I hope you finally get better and get healthy. This has been The David Feldman Show with special guest David Feldman, hosted by Colleen Werthman. Check us out online. Oh, good. Let's see. What do you think? Amazon.com slash David Feldman show and .00000019% of your purchase will go to this fine radio program. Let me help you through the closing. Okay. So mention that it doesn't cost more to shop on Amazon. It doesn't cost more to shop on Amazon. That's true, because I have Amazon Prime and I've saved a lot of money on shipping. Well, I'm saying if you go through my site... Oh. It doesn't cost more. No. In fact, Amazon makes less. Indeed. By going through my site. Right. So you're actually helping... I'm no bookkeeper, but it sounds legit. You're actually helping mainstream. Mainstream. Main Street, USA. Main Street. USA by going through... I don't see that, but I don't want to go down this road. Okay. Let's finish that. Let's finish the outro. Can we redo the chicken hawk jokes? No. No. That stays. Chicken hawks. For someone who purports so much about pedophilia, woeful ignorance. I don't know enough about pedophilia. Please, you're a connoisseur. Jesus. Oh, like that's so shocking. Now I'm going to say racist jokes just to offend you and be unattractive. We have to wrap up. Kyle Hitler. I want to... I am Colleen Worthman. This has been David Feldman 4, The David Feldman Show. Bye. I had questions about that answer. Let's tell you about a podcast that I listen to. Two of my friends host it, and I think you should listen to it. Andrew Goldstein. Maybe you remember him as my Jew on some of our more popular episodes of The David Feldman Show. Andrew Goldstein is a brilliant comedy writer from MTV and Race Wars. And Matt Goldich writes for Late Night with Seth Meyers, brilliantly funny comedian and comedy writer. They have a new podcast. You can download it on iTunes. It's called Sorry I've Been So Busy. You know, everyone always says they're so busy, but what exactly are they so busy with? Well, in their podcast, Sorry I've Been So Busy, writer-comedians Matt Goldich and Andrew Goldstein talk to their interesting and funny friends to find out what they've actually been so busy with. Everything for major life and career events to everyday minutia. Sorry I've Been So Busy is the only podcast that will never blow you off unless something comes up.