 We do have time this afternoon for questions and I know that we've got a lot of Tom Woods fans here And and this is also your chance to ask Lou Rockwell any question you might have on your mind and I will say this getting to know Lou over I guess I've known him about ten years is he just knows everybody in the Liberty Movement He's been around and he's been in some pretty incredible rooms over the years with some pretty incredible people You'd be you'd be amazed you'd be amazed at who Lou knows or and who Lou has met over the years Who's who so let me start with a question for of my own for Tom Trump the Trump phenomenon I Told Lou Trump is a verb. I mean when you trump someone in cards or that means you Trump Right like Trump Vafa Right, but a bush a bush a bush is a plant. It just sits there You know that was just saying to myself. You know God of all the names you'd want to have to be a politician wouldn't be bush So is Trump's PC is Trump's anti PC ism for real is it if or is it a facade? I'm not entirely sure. I'm my guess is it's for real, but he's certainly getting a real response and it's showing that You know a tremendous number of people have had it They're not interested it anymore when we see Megan Kelly or other purveyors of this sort of stuff booed by a Republican pretty much establishment crowd You know, I think they trunk Trump is to be commended for raising issues that have been suppressed for a very long time hooting the whole PC issue and That's why he's hated not because he's a clown or whatever the other arguments are against him And of course, I don't think anybody should be president. No one deserves to have that kind of power but but I must say I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying it. I hope he keeps talking more about PC and I think it does a lot of good Despite the screams of the elite about how horrible it is to raise these issues. It's bigoted. It's criminal You know all the rest. It's good to discuss these things and I would I think it's having a good effect. I Don't have anything to add to that, but I'll say but I will add something I guess I Had Lou come on to my show My bio you can see I do a podcast every day every weekday and when when Lou came on to talk about the Trump phenomenon It was one of the top five most listened to episodes ever out of the 503 that I've done The only the the top episode ever most listened to of all the libertarian theory I've covered was Lou and me talking about the first GOP debate So for all you folks who say, oh, I don't like politics and forget it you're a lion All right, this is a question from Steven show he lives in Richardson, Texas It's for Tom. It says the right always accuses the left of political correctness But is the right wing also guilty of its own brand of political grow? That's a great question, isn't it? Yeah Okay. Yeah, that's a great question. Where's Steven Let's give him a star for that question wherever Okay, there you go. Okay. Yeah, I it does and I'll get to the content of it in just a minute But I do think that just as a matter of fact, I think it is fundamentally a left-wing phenomenon And and Tom was right to point out the influence of Herbert Marcuse, for example I think it is definitely a left-wing phenomenon However, given that some people in the conservative movement have left-wing backgrounds. They can't help themselves This is just they're hard-wired to act this way So they've brought it into the conservative movement and I would say for instance on on foreign policy There is certainly a political correctness that goes on there and and certainly when it comes to a Certain what what Jeff and I call a certain democracy in the Middle East, you know by which of course we mean Lebanon There's certain, you know There's a certain opinion that everyone's expected to have and if you have a mildly differing opinion or an extremely differing opinion Then this doesn't mean that you're to be refuted You know, you're a terrible person who wants to kill everybody or something you can't have a rational Discussion with anybody so they use anti-Semitism the way the left uses racism exactly the same way and they do it Knowing full well that 99% of the people they're talking to are not anti-Semites. They know that they're not they're not stupid I mean, they may be blockheads on some things, but they're not really stupid on intellectual level They know that this can ruin people and they love they feel like we're sick of the left using words that can ruin We want to work our own word that can ruin people so I would say I would point to it there But maybe Lou has some other examples Well, I think the you know Even Rush Limbaugh and people at that use There have pulled not only on the war issues, but on domestic issues too very unfortunate it's spread throughout the whole Political culture and because it's so effective because it does silence people to smear them to shut them up So this is this has become the norm so for Trump to denounce it is unheard of and they're all For the most part, they're all outraged at them some are hopping on the bandwagon. We'll see if it actually is a bandwagon Republican Party elites are very powerful and they control the rules In fact, they made massive changes in the rules for holding a convention after Ron Paul's Significant success the last time even though they cheated him out of a bunch of delegates I try to prevent anything like that from ever happening again any any nominee who wasn't approved so there's still many No matter how Trump is doing the polls or dos and doesn't the primaries many many Roadblocks ahead for him And for any other candidate who might bug bug the power elite So We can see the right wing is using the politically correct argument against Trump even more than the left does the Network of national review or similar conservative publications They're just full of now of political correctness from page one to page 99 or whatever how many pages in the issue This question I think is great. It's by Michael from Michael and McKinney, Texas We struggle with this as libertarians right he says do you know of any attempts to sway people toward liberty from the emotional rather than the Intellectual standpoint. I feel this is fertile Unplowed ground. I think that's so true if you look at it at a political ad from Hillary It'll touch the emotional heartstrings and it's a very easy argument for our progressive friends to make you know Don't you want to help children? Don't you want to provide for education? How do we touch people at a more visceral level instead of just always being an intellectual movement? Well, that's tricky. I mean you can do it you can do it in a positive way and in a Negative's not right the right word but when I say negative I mean you could give you could give examples of people who have suffered tremendous injustice at the hand of the state that can I Think have some good effect You could think of anybody in the world who's struggled with with the FDA and they can't get a life-saving drug or That sort of thing, but also you can do positive things For instance a lot of the entrepreneurs that we know of and plenty that we don't have really really tremendous stories and The ultimate success of these entrepreneurs really has nothing to do with the state or entrepreneurs that we'd be interested in and To show all the struggles they had to engage in and all the obstacles they had to overcome I think can be a very compelling sort of story But a lot of us spend so much time just focused on the politicians that we don't get to Tell these kinds of stories that really give you the positive Overview of what of what things can be you know of innovation and the energy that goes into that and the commitment So I'd like to see that I'm not any good at that, but I'd like to see somebody do it Ramiz is pointing out that whenever he looked at popular culture of his day But there was the movies or detective novels or whatever the villain was always a businessman Said in every single instance So this hasn't this hasn't really changed much, but it's absolutely true that there are horrific stories of people who suffered from the state Why don't why isn't there say money available to make wonderful movies about them or documentaries? It's because in general it's not a good idea to make the state look bad For people who want preferment from the state So if you're a very wealthy businessman of the wrong sort and you're getting all kinds of state contracts You can't promote stories of people people who've been horribly murdered by the drug police You can't talk about peoples of lives have been destroyed by the EPA and they're just you know horrific examples and you can't That would stir the emotions Nor can you talk about people who've been so successful and serving their fellow fellow people And where the state is not involved and at the very least the state is an impediment to them It's an impediment they overcame So that it's politically correct political correctness rules it out so Doesn't mean it can't be done a great artistry is required to do this right And too many you know documentaries that I've seen and probably you've all seen Don't hold the attention Which is sort of the basic thing you have to do before anything else Very difficult to do this very difficult to make a compelling Movie or documentary a right a compelling story about something's really gonna influence people and you want both emotionally and intellectually But there's a huge gap Wedding to be filled by people who have the talent By people who might be interested in in supporting such a thing from a financial standpoint people who might be interested in doing it as a Everything do it as a business So there are many opportunities, but the whole culture The state in its and its official culture is against us, but that's nothing new that's Been true for maybe it's always been true But it's certainly been true for a very long time in this country, but it's still possible to circumvent it It's still possible to rule to refute it certainly possible to refute it to resist and to show Show the truth in all all forms of media So Maybe somebody here is going to do that did anyone in the room see the Atlas shrugged movies Anybody emotionally touched or did you find them badly done? Okay, we've got a consensus On that and people spent a lot of money on those movies I mean not as much as Hollywood blockbusters But people spent a lot of money in that and the idea behind that was that gee whiz We make all these intellectual arguments and we debate and and you libertarianism is not just a sound bite of an ideologies Sometimes you have to explain ABC to get to D, right? Whereas a left progressives can just say children Right and so people feel like well we have to find a way To be a motive but for whatever reason those movies were flops and And a bit of a money waste I must say So can we let's get a question from the audience? I'm sure we have some people who haven't like to give a live question this gentleman here This is a question for either of you I was wondering if either of you had an opinion of the former economist Henry George I know that F. A. Hayek was a big fan of him early on well Not really because I haven't read progress and poverty. So I I think there's way too much of people Speaking about things they haven't read because they heard it third hand or something So I don't want I mean I know he's laissez-faire except for the land tax But then if you Google Murray Rothbard and Henry George Rothbard has a response to George the George's don't accept it It's such a small group of people at this point that I just haven't made it a priority to master it but I want to just to justify my abstention from jumping into this Until I started writing books. I used to be the sort of person who would condemn Some book I had never read just because I knew it was a bad book And then when I saw people doing it to my books that they had never read I mean it wasn't just that I thought well, hey, that's not fair. Don't do that to my books It genuinely changed me. I thought that's just not right to do to anybody because it's rough work to write a book And I owe that to any author in the world So I've pledged at that point. I'm if I haven't read it. I'm just not going to comment. So there you go I'll just add by you know Murray's Murray's critique is very persuasive. They're the he pointed out. I've only read in George I've certainly not read all of progress and poverty or many other writings. He was a brilliant opponent of protectionism and Very very eloquent and convincing still to this day. So if you give him that credit land Murray's one of Rothbard's laws was that everybody concentrated and what it concentrates on what they're bad at So all the Georges today talk about not all the places where Henry George was right But they help just promote the single tax the land tax. So It's too bad, but you know, that's history of thought Well, here's a great question from Shreveport someone from Shreveport, Louisiana Tom, were you forced to drop Tom Sawyer the rush song because of PC? Oh No, no, no, no, no In case you don't understand the question the intro the audio intro to my podcast used to have a little snippet of rush in it and the reason I got rid of it was that Initially my show was just like an offshoot of the Peter Schiff show and it was hosted at Schiff radio comm or whatever and They made me this beautiful intro But the intro was like 60 seconds long and for a half hour show that's the proportion is all wrong But secondly it had all these intellectual property issues with it that I you know, yeah, maybe we don't like that But we don't live in that world. I'm not going to jail. So And then I was assured by the Schiff people don't worry about that But why and they say look Peter uses stuff all the time in his show. Nobody cares That's no so then when I was on my own I thought okay, I don't have the Schiff radioed Empire behind me anymore I'm not taking any more chances. So that was the reason well So that means the great clip from the Simpsons is gone and oh just I can't believe even brought this up Well, I will say this is I've been a rush fan since I was probably 17 or 18 and about six months ago Neil Pert the drummer from Rush gave just an Unbelievably moronic interview to Rolling Stone and and they didn't thought of as a libertarianish ban because they had the song Anthem Which was based off I ran's book the same title and and Neil Pert He's a unbelievable musician and and you can give him some slack because he lost his is his Daughter in a car accident a few years ago changed him But you know he said you just said he said something to the effect that will clearly ran Paul hates brown people and And it was just so facile and so off. It was just so unlike him and and I've sworn them off since it's the kind of thing that That you just can't tolerate. I think in in civil society. It was just a bizarre statement from a guy who really ought to know better so More rush Canadians anyway But they know we this could lead to it this could lead to a foreign policy plunder we invade them Now we the good questions have really started to come in I lose gonna like this in order to be politically correct the owner of the Washington Redskins Will be forced to change the name of the team comments Well, I certainly hope not and so far he hasn't done it I'm One eighth Indian myself They have an ackee tribe in Canada and Northern New England doesn't bother me I mean I don't know as far as I can tell all the American Indians. I've read except the officials who were paid to You know to be like the Indian end of all ACP they They're offended but as far as I could tell nobody nobody else has offended and I hope the owner sticks to his guns I hope but you know you can't be sure but it's just amazing considering everything that he's stuck to his guns this long and Hasn't done it. So just have to hope This is where Tom how big of a problem is PC within the Catholic Church will treat you as a spokesman for all Catholicism And what is your your personal strategy for overcoming it? People expect too much from me I find I Get emails all the time. What are you gonna do about this answer nothing? I Have five children. Okay. I'm really busy nothing is what I'm gonna do. Yeah, I mean it's as bad there as it is anywhere basically because the There's this misconception that and I will defend this to anybody. There's a misconception that John Paul II and Less of a misconception that Benedict the 16th were conservatives and so Francis is just this odd man out That's just not right. I mean Francis is definitely much different from those men But they're all they all travel in the same pose of Attic and to world. I mean it's like saying You conservatives, I bet you all like Newt Gingrich You know well Newt Gingrich like that's the most good like for the media. That's the most conservative guy They can think of Newt Gingrich and that's I mean and John Paul and we're like it was like Newt Gingrich I don't mean that he was that trivial of a thinker. I mean of where he is on the I mean where he is on the spectrum like John Paul the second is much to the and I Reject everybody who says there's no left and right in the church just orthodoxy not true There absolutely is left and right in the church John Paul is was very much to the left of Everybody who went before him in and I'm not just talking economics It's just an area after area whether it was scholastic philosophy theology Whether it was ecumenism whether it was his attitude toward politics or whatever. He was very much to the left You know he was a he had some things that made him seem to a 20th century late 20th century American to make him a conservative But that's a pretty low threshold. I'm talking about by a Catholic standard. He was not a conservative So because we can't even diagnose the problem Makes it tricky to come up with a solution, but yeah, it's everywhere It's it's a it's a phenomenon everywhere and it's what's typical of political correctness is that leftism is tolerated in all its forms Maybe there's a slight slap on the wrist for extreme leftism But conservatism is rooted out and punished So, you know, you have a priest who's you know, he's he's he's wearing a clown suit, you know Or he's got a Detroit red wings hat or something You know, whatever they're doing the polka. That's not a joke They're doing the polka and that's considered legit, you know liturgically. Okay, but you have a guy who you know Just goes by the book and everybody reports him what he's just going by the book I mean why why isn't he like father Ted with his, you know, Detroit red wings hat anybody like that is rooted out So it's a bizarre regime That's been in power for quite some time and you have a few resistors around but they are dwindling and Finally, if we thought John Paul was not if we thought John Paul was a conservative, how did Francis ever get elected? There should not have been enough people in the card People in the College of Cardinals to elect Francis. So that's how we prove it. So I'm right about this This question's right cut that part out of the video later This is directed at Lou says mr. Rockwell I have long maintained the candidate most dangerous to liberty and thus most likely to win is Marco Rubio What presidential candidate most frightens you I Guess I would say Rubio or bush, but it looks like root it looks like bushes and notice in the in the latest national poll He's down to 4% So he's he's plummeting. He's Trump was right. He's a loser. He's boring nobody wants to listen to him and his Unfortunate brother unfortunate for those of us he ruled anyway Unfortunately, also was an attractive personality to a lot of people Jeb can have all the exclamation points. He wants after his name. It just doesn't Doesn't do it, but Rubio is I would say definitely the neoconservative candidate They they have the neoconservatives have a slight distress of Jeb just like they did his dad Doesn't mean they're good guys, but you know, that's not all bad if the neoconservatives distrust you Rubio they love he's totally controlled somebody who's Works in national television and has dealt with all the Candidates told me recently that of all of them Rubio is by far the stupidest that he's like a moron However, he has an ability to memorize things so he can memorize phrases. He can memorize Things to answer to questions But it'll be typically just a rearrangement of the same phrases and whatever he's whatever he's saying but he's totally you know, he's He's Is he a bad guy? I don't really care the people who control them are very bad people who believe in constant war and vast expansion of the state They believe in political correctness. They believe in in Vast expansion of the welfare state the warfare state every every every aspect of so rubio is And of course these people find him charming. It's a nice looking guy but I Would say you know right now. He's but they're all a problem You don't want anybody, you know, one of the things about the president. We're supposed to think is so wonderful is the The nuclear codes he's followed by a military officer carries a box that in it has all the codes it needs to To start to launch all the missiles from the submarines and the planes in Nebraska and the ships and the bombers and I mean the president he has the power to destroy the world just on his own say so I mean talking about tyranny. I mean, why shouldn't any man have that kind of it's just an unbelievable outrage But of course, it's considered a great thing. I mean, it's wonderful. It's not reason to really respect and love the president even more so the presidency is a cancer and So you really don't want anybody exercising that cancer But right now rubio is the guy beloved of Bill Kristol for example, so to me that's a real That's a signal is how bad he is And Tom, who are you making your max donation to? This is a great question that chapter my life is over This is a good one and how should liberate this is from Stephen Sebastian Jackson Mississippi, how should libertarians approach the Confederate flag? Well, I don't think it's a libertarian issue. I mean it that's up to you I think you can be a libertarian and have a complete and this is not a cop-out answer I think this is the plumb line answer You can have any opinion on the on the Confederate flag that you want it depends on your view of history and so on and on I personally have no problem with it. I know people who do either people people I Respect disagree with me on this a lot of times people. I don't respect disagree with me and I expect that That's why I don't respect them but But there are there are people I I mean there's a guy I co-authored a book with who disagrees with me on this So I mean it actually has given me a bit of pause But basically the way I look at it is that the vast majority of people I mean first of all Jimmy Carter Said the flag was okay like we can't even keep up with the lefts demands So now even Jimmy Carter's do right wing for you. I mean this at some point you got to say that's it I that's it. I'm not changing anything else. I'm not taking any more flags down. I'm not taking my shirt off I'm not that is it I'm not going to try to check every five minutes what the new outrage is. I'm just not doing it So part of me feels like you got to just resist the left in general But also I think the typical person who uses it is just thinking well, let's see I mean my ancestors suffered greatly I mean Jefferson Davis actually noted to people that in an emergency rats are edible I mean, that's how bad things were and a lot of these people were fighting because well, what am I what else am I gonna do? The northern people are coming To kill me What am I supposed to do say to them? Well, good. Mr. Union soldier sir I know that I deserve your righteous wrath because of policy decisions made by my government So I will just lie here while you burn the children and burn my city to the ground for this is what I deserve Who is gonna say that I don't care what the Confederate government was up to but individuals I can imagine them saying I have to fight What else can I do in this situation? And if you want to honor people who did that in that situation good for you That's my answer Okay, this is this is did you want to say I the time I felt I mean I I'm gonna agree with Tom But I remember I had thanks to the late Howard Phillips I had the great experience of being in the Baltic States right at the very end of the Soviet Union people were beginning to demonstrate against the Soviet occupation and In both the Estonia Latvia and Lithuania When you saw crowds it was not unusual at all to have several people carrying a Confederate flag So to them it indicated secession and freedom. They weren't wanting to have slavery in Lithuania So it's I don't know people people look at it differently and if they want to use it perfectly fine with me If other people don't like it, that's you know, I would agree. That's that's fine with me, too Question from the audience. We have time for a couple more this gentleman be we have a microphone Okay Is that like heart disease Well, you know, it's if you look at a if you look at the organization chart of the federal government That's a terrible thing to ask you to do You see, it's you know, it's this gigantic oak of evil. That's the presidency And there's this little tiny Congress and little tiny Supreme Court. They're both evil But I still think I mean I think the presidency is where the EPA and the IRS and the Pentagon is CIA I mean the NSA Every evil thing you can think of that's oppressing you or other people in the world is in the presidency, but Supreme Court of course is Went out of control with Marbury versus Madison a very very early on in the 19th century There's nothing in the in the Constitution giving the Supreme Court the right to Do things like a distit with the homosexual marriage decision. She just announced that this is now quote-unquote the law Of course, I like the older tradition where the law consisted of the natural law or things in pursuit of the natural law Not just what five guys in the dresses can announce to the world as this is now the law You're going to jail if you don't if you don't obey it So the Supreme Court is awful But nobody's interested in doing anything about it Ron Paul very pro-life always had the only practical doable argument I've ever seen doing something if one's concerned about abortion He said this the the Constitution allows the Congress to decide the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court Except in some very narrow areas like suits between federal governments and the US government or suits between the states But pretty much everything the federal courts do is within congressional jurisdiction. I said you should remove abortion From the jurisdiction of the courts He said which would immediately in effect report repeal Roe v. Wade and then it would be a state issue and therefore much less contentious and More solvable by people on Whatever people's views are they couldn't they could advance them at the state level well Of course, he couldn't get any Republican whatsoever Nobody zero and all the so-called pro-life organization They weren't interested even though this was actually doable when you had a Republican Congress a Republican president This is not subject to the Supreme Court being able to veto it There was absolutely no interest and I think because it would have worked So the Republicans love this is an issue. They roll it out every four years They talk about it for a short time and they roll it back in the garage until the next election They don't want to change anything or any more than the Democrats do because it's such a great Fundraising and volunteer and stir up the voters issue for the Republicans So that Ron tried that all the time he was in Congress to get people interested you get Zero interest even though it would have been a huge you know would have been also just going on It would have been a federalist a federal approach and a decentralized approach But they're all afraid of the precedent why but wait a minute What if then you know X might be removed from the jurisdiction of the federal courts, which of course is great XYZ ABC all the rest But the Republicans and the conservatives were just as terrified of doing anything to the jurisdiction of the court as Liberals and Democrats was like you unanimity on that if we had a question here. Yeah Yeah No, it's from it's tremendous and because this is I first became aware of it Because of the left attacking the fact that there was resistance. I mean they were all racist. They were all you know fascist or you know whatever sexes Homophobes all you know all the rest of the the regular litany and There's been real pushback in the science fiction community in the video game community So it's not entirely successful, but just the fact that there's been Hardcore pushback and refusal to surrender refusal to in fact roll over and ask for forgiveness Drives them crazy. So this is and I think very being recommended Vox day's book on social news just this is good and It's very encouraging these are and also they're accused of being all male all white males But so what I mean if white I don't know what the demographics are of the video game business But if it is all white males so what I mean what if other people they're not keeping anybody else out if Black guys or Chinese guys or whatever would want to participate. I'm sure they'd be welcomed by the stuff among other questions, but We're supposed to think they're evil because they're a bunch of young white guys and all Just Resisting so I think it's I think it's good I think there are a lot of indications like this in society. There is resistance to the political correctness and those They're all true. They're tremendous and they're very motivated. They're strong. They're articulate smart all very smart It's a great. It's a great subcultural pushback I've even read some opinions that the Gamergate scandal actually represents a watershed movement Maybe the high watermark for out of control PC. We have a question over here How do libertarians view continued growth in the economy and in growth in the population on this finite planet? Well, I guess first from my perspective, I'm not sure we have much growth in the economy I'm convinced a lot of it is circular in that the sense that from an Austrian perspective GDP is a nonsensical Figure that includes government spending and includes a lot of things that that are not productive activity If you read David Stockman his country corner He will argue that there are you know net negative earnings in a lot of us companies a lot of us industries So I'm not convinced that we have all this this growth You know the the overpopulation issue that's that's been raised a million times It always seems that we we have some apocalyptic future where we're going to exceed five billion eight billion ten billion And yet human beings tend to always adjust quite adroitly so I'll you know spring personally a human overpopulation is about The last thing on my list of worries when it comes to the state. I think we got about 99 problems before that Yeah, well, there are a few things about it. I mean, I know there are all these interesting Thought experiments where you could take the entire population of the world Plop it in Texas and everybody would still have a decent amount of square footage to live in so It's worth bearing in mind, but also In in terms of resources, there's a thought that if we keep having economic expansion and growth that We're gonna run out of things things will get depleted and then we're gonna have a real crisis on our hands But this is why it's useful to remember that great Very interesting debate. I didn't agree with everything Julian Simon ever said But the best thing he ever did was to debate Paul Ehrlich in 1980 Over this tenure that this was episode 5 oh Tom Woods comm slash 5 oh one I did an episode on this because it's the 25th because September 29th 2015 is a 25th anniversary of The conclusion of this bet that these two had Paul Ehrlich wrote the population bomb and Julian Simon wrote the ultimate resource the human mind and He said to Ehrlich, I want you to pick any five commodity metals you want go ask all the experts Which are the ones that are gonna be most likely to start being depleted and therefore? correspondingly see their prices rise and I will bet you a thousand bucks That none of those prices are gonna rise they're all gonna fall Because we will either There are all kinds of reasons they could fall we could find substitutes for them or we like for instance with copper We don't need that for telephone lines anymore at least today anymore and not as much We find substitutes we find ways to get more out of less because of human ingenuity and Ehrlich's fine Sure, I'll take that bet so Ehrlich went to the he didn't just think of his own metals. He went to the experts and 1990 came along Every one of them had fallen in price So Ehrlich had to write a check to Simon of course saying that well, you know It's gonna take a little longer, but it's gonna be even worse than I expected I mean he Simon was Ehrlich was saying things like by the year 2000. I don't think there's even going to be an England Left and he was on I found out on the show. He was on the Tonight Show Almost two dozen times because he was very charming and whatever he would say these apocalyptic things and they're none of them are true And they look ridiculous in in the light of day. So that What you can get out of learning about that bet is very important to understanding these kinds of questions Well, ladies and gentlemen, I'm afraid that we are out of time. Thank you again so much for joining us today And please come see us in Houston in January. Thanks very much