 Buenas dias a... This session is on victims' databases and we're going to discuss what's been done in different local and regional administrations and in academia. I believe there were two main reasons why a session like this had to take place. First because we at the general directorate feel it's only fair to listen equally to all these institutions who've been working very hard on democratic memory in general and on victims' database in particular. Let us not forget that on the tenth and eleventh legislatures not a lot was done on this because it wasn't fostered by the state. And nevertheless these institutions will listen to now they kept up their work. And second I think it's also fair because they know a lot, they've got a lot to share, they've got things we can learn from and we can take good note of what they've been up to with the new democratic memory law. So without further ado I've asked the speakers to give us brief presentations, 15 minutes, so that in the end we can have time for discussion and questions. So first from the Navarra Institute of Memory we're going to have José Miigastón who's head of the institute and César Lallana who's head of documentation. Good morning Egonón, good morning Basque. First of all we want to thank Eurón and the general directorate, their kind invitation to share with you what we've been doing way in Navarra and in other regional institutions. We all agree that the idea would be to all of us to come together in a single database for disappeared people which I believe would be ideal. So we're both going to speak, César and myself will share the presentation and will share the time we have. And then if you have questions we'll be delighted to answer you. The Navarra government has within it a department, a department of citizens relations and within it the general directorate of peace living together in human rights. In this general directorate there are two services. De memoria que es el Instituto Navarra de la Memoria que es el que desde el año 2018 como os contaremos después pues tiene las funciones de la preservación, la divulgación de la memoria de Navarra en torno a las víctimas del franquismo. Además del Centro de Documentación del Instituto Navarra. What we're doing can be expressed as we can see it on screen in a circular flow. The mandate for the Navarra Institute of Memory to preserve memory leads to agreements with different institutions in our region and outside it. We are, we have contacts and agreements with the Ministry of Defense with Largo Caballero Foundation represented here by Almudena, the House of Memory of La Sauceda. So we're trying to have as many contacts as possible within and without our territory. These contacts allow us to keep alive the memory in Navarra and to divulge it. We've been doing this, making the most of all the opportunities that IT grants us and has been doing so for years, always with the goal of preserving and divulging our memory heritage. In the case of Navarra, the work of systematizing all our archival information started in 2009 at the public university of Navarra. They really started working in 2011 with an agreement with the Navarra parliament. And then in 2015 this agreement included also the Navarra government. The historical fund for memory of Navarra comes from the pioneering investigation of José María Jorío, which was carried out through a research group which went from 1936. It was called From Hope to Terror and it also had other contributions and private contributions and private data that the group had access to. So that the documentary fund for memory became one of the main databases for victims of violence from 1936, so Franco's years. Right now we have over 23,000 validated items around the main axis, which is the repression suffered by people. This is organized in different categories of repression with a solid conceptual foundation published by the fund and which is open to the citizens on our website. From 2018 the Navarra Institute of Memory was created in the General Directorate of Peace Coexistence and Human Rights and we have the documentation center which is in charge of preserving and divulging our memory heritage in Navarra. For this we carry out complex interventions or we do our best to do so to make sure we can preserve our memory heritage. For example, the digitization and construction of virtual objects based on private and public archival fund, also through testimonies and through the creation of a big portal presenting this memory heritage. This is how Ordo Ibidea, the path of memory, appears as a portal. The idea is to have in this single portal all the complementary projects which have been developed in Navarra over the last few years. The database that I mentioned before, the funds that we have been gathering at the Navarra Institute of Memory since 2015, the graves map, the perspective and exhumation studies and bibliographic search engine that we have implemented. This is what we are hoping to achieve by 2023 and the project is being carried out with Daedaló. Right now in our portal Ordo Ibidea we have the oral memory fund with over 50,000 interviews and this year we will have integrated the virtualized documentary fund which is now held in a different online space. By 2023 we will integrate all the different projects I mentioned before which are now being carried out in Navarra. This integration, I'll give you a brief summary, is done for two different reasons. First we're trying to answer the four main principles of humanitarian international law, justice, preparation and guarantee of non-repetition. For the Navarra Institute of Memory to give the names of the victims is a way of answering to these three principles while our application projects such as shows and educational projects which are posted on our portal online are an attempt to foster the idea of non-repetition. And then we also want to place the victim at the core of the project so all the documentation pivots around the victims so we want to always show the primary sources of information. In a way we are inspired in the Jarlsen model that we heard this morning, I mean we are a lot more humble but they are our inspiration. Around the main axis of the victim we gather all the information in whatever format they may be available. The integration means that they are available in one single database and we can access online. We are coming from four different institutions with the creation of a unified victim registry. We also heard Argentina talking about it this morning. In Navarra we do not want to have four different databases, we want to have a single one with all of the data from all the institutions. And also having a model for data with the victim at the core so we are following archival principles origin for example but we also treat the data relating it to a victim. May I now explain what we've been doing over this year which we're finishing and what we want to do in 2023. By next month we will have finished part of our project. As Josemi was saying we will have already have the testimonial collections and by the end of the year we will have finished the change of data model to guarantee the import of data from databases which are our own or belong to other centers. We have now also integrated the repertory of deadly victims over 3000. We have also proceeded to, no, we will by the end of the year publish the documentary funds which we had gathered from agreements with private people and institutions. And we have also linked all that documentation when it is related to victims, people who were murdered, who lost their life and who have all the data related to them. Now within the idea of reparation the Navarra Institute of Memory had carried out some census programs. One is the census of the exile, another one the census for deportation and another one the census of people affected by economic repression. These databases will also become part of the system. Now next year, 2023, we will integrate the rest of the victims of the documentary fund of the University of Navarra, some 20,000 items, the geo-referenced information from the grave maps. They will also integrate the excimation data from the scientific body which now holds it. And we will link these all to victims in as much as possible as we digitized and virtualize all the information. In the first stage which we have already finished, we will have all those 3000 items from the Utna and the three censors. And with all that information we have the basis for this unified victim registry. This is after an adaptation which we will use in the future for all the other integrations of the data model in Daedalo, which is the platform we are using. So right now we have nearly 6000 personal fact sheets appearing in this victims registry, around which we have indexed pictures, documents, audio and visual files and also bibliographical searches in around 40 works on the repression after the coup d'etat and Franco's repression in Navarra. The information is recovered mostly through searches by name or municipality, although we also have the option through controlled vocabulary of searching by scenes. Let's have a quick look at some screen grabs to show you what you can find in our portal Oroibidea, The Path of Memory. The idea is that this portal will focus on a user friendly search. It should be intuitive, easy to handle. So there are other elements to do the searches but the main access is the search by name, municipality or even theme. Now this access to information can be achieved in a more sophisticated manner through an advanced search of mortal victims, economic repression victims, so in the different senses of origin and we can also search by a count or by theme. We can also access the raw sources, so we have archival sources which are both private and public, which don't always refer to victims that we have in our unified register and the researcher will always have access to the whole of the fund. I insist we have digital funds, we have agreements for digitization and virtualization. We are not the holders of the physical fund, we are often mediators between the source fund and the user. Another resource is through maps which allow us to do geo-referenced visualizations. Let's have a look at victims' fact sheets. Here we link certain main fields and then we give access to all the information that is referenced to that person, be it publications, fragments of interviews, pictures, whatever. With this the idea is that we can then manipulate the information and create, for example, biographical paths. This is an example of how using these data we can reconstruct the areas of repression suffered by this victim and we have links to all these landmarks. Would you like to finish? We can open up maybe some questions later. I would like to talk about five conclusions of this project, which integrates the totality of the information and different institutions having to do with the cobertain region. Any that respect Henovar is offered as a memory laboratory, which can be interesting to some. We would like to point out that this approach is quite innovative in the treatment of information. We underscore the user experience to guarantee the right to approaching justice of both victims and relatives. And I would like to insist, as you could see this morning, the fact that the model focuses the victim in the center of it all, allowing to have different information through the primary sources. This dissemination project that we are participating in right now allows us to incorporate new people in the knowledge of the past. This has been the case in our experience and the creation of this unified register of victims, register of victims that we are reaching and has to do with posterior research and the potential of new dissemination materials that are giving us or giving us very good results. Finalmente, I would like this portal with all the material that is generating and with all that is generated in the future can turn into a place of historical memory in Henovar, lamenting the latest load that we are working on currently monuments, common graves, etc. But this portal should become a historical memories site having to do with the victims of franctism and the civil war. And out of time, maybe we can open up a further Q&A session. Thank you. Well, thank you so much, Thessan and Josemi, to tell you the truth. You're doing an excellent job. We've been collaborating with you for quite a long time with respect to the centers of victims, but we've been working closely with Nevar, reviewing the common graves and all the information that you have in your region. It's incredible. I would like to point out the last thing you said. These works ultimately turn into memory sites on their own right. The only thing these people may have at the end will be that database, the more details we can put into this, the greater the recuperation of the memory of this person will be. Let me give the floor now to Xavier Pusheiro Alonso, from Names and Voices Project. Well, good morning everyone. This is the project we have in Galicia, which was the basis of many studies, but that is not going to continue into the future. I will tell you how this was created, how we can use the funds, how it can be used by any user. Well, here we have it. First of all, I would like to thank the invitation of the European Archive of Memories. I'm very pleased to be in physical touch with these guys, with whom some years ago we had some very interesting work sessions in Galicia. We went to Coruña, prison in worse conditions than now. We had to wear helmets. We lived an incredible experience. We were attacked by a seagull when we were going to Coruña. Well, we escaped, we never stopped. And the seagull chased us for a while, but later on it just flew away. Well, Names and Voices Project gathers the ensemble of the victims that we have in the four provinces that currently are part of the autonomous community of Galicia. These victims, it's important to say that we don't consider them victims of the civil war because in civil we didn't have a civil war. We had a coup d'etat on the 20th of July. It succeeded and it's not a war front. Even so in our territory we have between 4,500 and 5,000 victims. Some of them have not been validated. It's a figure that can go between these two figures. The victims, because we had a coup d'etat, belonged to the violence of the poach. It was not the... Names and Voices was born as a project on the year 2006, considering the dynamic of the recuperation of the historic history memory. At the moment in which the popular party was not in the government in Galicia, because when we had the Albertoño Fejo and the MPP won in Spain, Names and Voices ran out of money and we can continue working as in the past. This does not mean that the results have not been updated or we have not worked in such a way that corrects some of the problems that the database has. But it's true that it hasn't... we haven't been able to approach more general intenses as we should have done. What do we have to do for the future? Well, for the future we have two databases. First, this one is called Terra Memoria. You have the link. You can check part of the online information. We have to go to Santiago and it's a database that is an oral basis with two thousand interviews, two thousand... one thousand five hundred are focused... Five hundred are focused on the civil war, the coup d'etat, etc. The rest belong to other previous funds called Torga Fund and East America Fund. And this supply information about other topics like migration, rural history. But they focus on the coup violence. It's a very important source for its analysis. But in any case interviews of both nomes e botes, which is half of the project, that's why it's called so. Currently can be checked through this portal which gathered the work, the previous work of the three funds. Names, por exemplo, we have a database, which this is a snapshot of what you can see when you connect with the link. And a person that enters here includes... we can see all this information, reports, maps, picture galleries, victims or places that include violence. And then they have the possibility of going to the database of victims clicking on the blue button you can see right on the middle. And this is done, this person will be able to find the complete list, the full list presented alphabetically or filtering any of these items you can see. You can use one or several items combined to complete or the full list of victims we have validated in the public. That database was approximately 15,949 victims classified alphabetically as well as under any other criteria name, last name, date of birth, place of birth, political orientation profession and the year of death. These are the people who died and we know the date of their death. And then the event, the death of violence this person went through and in this chart you see the number of victims with respect to the event. And here I think it is important to explain what some of these events are. Gulak and the camp of extermination, people from Galicia that ended up in these detention and extermination centers no matter whether they survived or not. We believe that they are there or they were there because well they took place and otherwise they were not victimized by other authorities. Then we have unknown, there is one victim that should be eliminated but it is just one person exiled in Galicia and not only for people went to the exiled but it is a category that we had to leave non completed in the database of. Galician culture there is another database that includes more information and the rest of the categories have to do with 99% of the victims. First of all we have several categories that have to do with the different types of deadly victims. Well, it is a Paseo, it is an execution without a sentence execution inside or outside of Galicia. This appearance, this is surprising, just a small amount of people. This is one of the conclusions that we got from the research from Namis in both ways. In Galicia we realized that at the moment of creating this database or from even before victims were identifying most of them. And then finally we have that list of other types of death. It has a more heterogeneous nature, people who died during the fights, the first moments of the fighting, the active armed resistance acting against the cook authorities, people who committed suicide, people who died because of the tortures etc. Or people whose death can be considered non programmed but definitely that had a responsibility from the cook authorities. Then we have five other events that do not involve the death of the person. I forgot to say one thing though, in any of these events a person can only appear in one event. I mean, if we have a person who was executed, he or she will not be in prison, even if he or she first was retained in prison during the moment of his or her death. Or people who were detained in prisons or concentration camps without having correctly judged. Prisoners of people who were condemned to different days or years of incarceration. Then we have a process, people who were sued formally but who were not condemned either because they were not present in the trial. Or because they were absolved and their cause was cancelled. Then we have punishment, people who were bailed, who didn't go to jail or who were not killed. Then we have other repressive typologists group, quite a heterogeneous group where we have as an iconic case women who were forced to drink certain types of oil who were tortured from the violence that do not involve death but it seemed possible to include any of the other categories. Just to finish and to allow some more time for debate and to be able to answer the different questions. Let me tell you what were our conclusions for our research of the future. We just think that this was interesting for us. Well, number of victims, non mesebotes allowed to obtain in Galicia a number of victims which was quite real. Even if the project was or finished in the year 2012, no, it hasn't gone through meaningful changes. And with respect to these victims it's interesting to state that before the base was created people thought that ten thousand people were affected. But if we had ten, five thousand or less it was quite surprising. This may mean a problem to some. Some people thought that the magnitude of violence was not so important about killing for five thousand people is quite terrible. It means that we had more deaths in Galicia than in Chile during the 1973. Beyond the quantification of victims, non mesebotes eliminated some myths and some references that were quite inexact. With respect to the Franco's repression, the chronology of the assassinations which allowed us to eliminate the thesis of the hot crisis, both executions and paseos which meant taking people into our car and then being killed in a forest for example. So we had many sources that prove the different steps followed by the authorities at the time to kill these people. So they were not something that was done, it was not an uncontrolled type of violence. Another interesting piece of information that allowed us to compare this with other context and places beyond Spain has to do with the social and political profile of victims because it was proven that violence affected a different social strata and different professional strata beyond the working class of cities. So it's important to know that non mesebotes evidence that violence affected the liberal working classes and military people that do not support the coup d'etat that were some of the people to be killed by the insurgent party. This cannot explain, there is no relation between political relevance or pertinence. The territorial area of the persecution, violence is not affecting all municipalities equally in Galicia. Villages are highly scattered, now the rural areas are quite abandoned. But here we don't have a population distribution with the distribution of deaths. This means or this explains why there was an overestimation of violence. We knew more about the municipalities where we had seen more deaths. If you go to the database, if you check the maps that we have prepared or simply this is filtered by municipalities we can see that are concentrated in certain municipalities Vigo, Ferrol, Coruña e Aurense. With other places where it is not possible to determine a single person that was killed or maybe one. This is an interesting reality beyond the interest of documenting where the different victims appear because this allows us to determine the idea that violence was simply one more resource to guarantee obedience through coercion and terror. And finally I would like to use any more time but the data we have right now even if they have stopped in the year 2012 this helps us to do several lines of research including a matter, papers, PhD thesis etc. which allow us to correct the violent events that people went through but also to reach other general organization of violence and shed some light on groups that were traditionally forgotten in the studies about coo violence like those that generated violence and the role that society had or the role played by society at that time and in democracy to end with a positive note because to tell you the truth most of the society no matter what people say that we all were guilty most of the society did not participate in these violent events that's all I have to say thank you very much for your kind attention Very interesting job Javier all these final conclusions that you pointed out with respect to the elimination of some myths are extremely interesting because ultimately this research helps us with some of the preconceived ideas had very little basis on reality this is fantastic work it's unfortunately due to your lack of research you have to finish in the year 2012 when it's a point to point out maybe we can debate it the fact that these projects that we are reviewing are projects that are alive and kicking they have to be taken care of from the different institutions so that we can answer questions more modestly like my colleague Jose Luis we answer many requests from the Secretary of State and all these elements need to be examined if we just park them in a corner we lose a source of information and victims won't be taken care of as it's 5 in total will change the other speakers well then in the first place in this second part well in the second table we'll have I know a campus of the director of the project Memoria Democrática from the University of Castilla La Mancha I know you have the floor is it on? yes it is well good morning thank you I'm so pleased to be here thank you for your kind invitation I'd like to thank the organizers organizing an event is always difficult and this one is brilliant I'd like to introduce to you what we've been doing in the original plan of studies and the impact memory at Castilla La Mancha based on other projects that had to start due to lack of resources something we should talk about in the Q&A session then all we did together in all that information is to improve or to add other elements it's an ongoing process first of all as our Galitian friend said some characteristics of repression in Castilla La Mancha well in the figure of mortal victims is terrible the last figures is 12,597 mortal victims considering the population of this region was huge these victims are directed into different chapters extra judiciary victims others that received the death sentence deaths in prison 2,352 529 people who died in Nazi concentration camps another aspect that was recently added and we also will have the addition is not 12,597 victims we have victims due to other causes as our colleague from Galicia said I'm not going to talk about that but we reached a total figure of 2,577 victims which involves many different things for the provinces integrating Castilla La Mancha and a great job for when we intend to prepare a database of common graves and of the victims themselves what are the common graves mostly in cemeteries in graveyards because as we could see most victims were killed after a sentence or in jail further on they were buried in cemeteries particularly in places devoted to the burial of people who had not been baptized people who had committed suicide normally called corral de los desgraceados and this is where most victims were buried this should facilitate our work of identification of victims and it's so because we have the books the reference books in cemeteries but these books do not contain reliable information in many occasions the amount of people that were buried is many mice than the historical partners of these graves make it difficult to find some of them but on the other hand in this slide that I showed you before we have the graves by the sides of the roads in some areas in some trenches in Castilla La Mancha it's hard to find places this is La Fosa de Recos in Toledo in the middle of an olive tree field an old olive tree field and it was hard to find because victims with the acceptance of the owner of these territories had signaled the place and they had built a monument that showed that allowed us to exhumate some of the victims what happened during Franco or Frankism some of the victims were affected by these changes and transfers to el baño de los caídos that in previous congresses should call it Cuál gamoros instead of in terms of the previous name 123 people were sent to Cuál gamoros placing Castilla La Mancha as the sixth region that more people transferred to Cuál gamoros and this involves not only the transfer as we know victims of republican repression but also victims of Franco's repression so these graves were exhumated at one moment in time in order to take these remains to Cuál gamoros other clandestine exhumations to place there during the transition the democratic transition other exhumations are called non-scientific exhumations because they didn't follow a pre-established protocol where remains were not going to be identified and this entailed the integration of new memorials which added the names of the victims problem at times as there were non-scientific exhumations and they were only using that information coming from the burial or cemetery register books they have more names than people people who were killed in that place but not buried in that place so this makes the whole story very complex once in the year 2000, 2003, 2012 when public memory policies were deployed in the year 2003 and 2012 we had scientific exhumations that had great importance in Castilla la Mancha and that helped to find out that these books of cemeteries didn't yield reliable information they supplied some false information so as we heard before from 2011 with the change of government both in state and in our region our funding was halted and so was our work so by 2012 there were no more exhumations because we ran out of money so there was a parallelization of the democratic memory efforts that were trying to identify these masquerades and these victims this halt lasted in state until 2020 but in 2016, 2017 the Ciudad Real County Council took the initiative of funding some memory projects where they started to try to identify the victims that laid in these graves in Castilla la Mancha and the University of Castilla la Mancha created research groups they started studying what happened in Albacete and then in the other provinces of Castilla la Mancha and this led to a portal called Víctimas de la Dictadura Dictatorship victims in Castilla la Mancha you can see there are all sorts of victims not just the deadly ones in the autonomous communities the victims from Franco's period to this we have to add the project funded by the Ciudad Real Government maps of memory which tries to name all the Franco repression victims Ciudad Real the mortal ones as well so please visit this portal memory maps it's really interesting it is then when in 2021 the regional study plan on democratic memory was created with this we try to gather and organize all this information which had already been drafted by our colleagues in years before we've published a series of books we did so last year on important subjects to do with the Civil War and Franco's Times we've created a portal which is called Regional Map for Democratic Memory you're welcome to visit it we have a regional map of mass graves and victims graves and victims you can have a look at it and then another area where you can see explanation of important events in the area and what we call the interactive map for democratic memory in Castellana Mancha where you have a combination of the graves map and the geo located information for the main events of the Civil War Franco's periods and we are also now beginning to cover the transition years in Castellana Mancha now the project started last year for three months there were five of us but then in 2022 which is the current year there are only two of us now we are going to have two more colleagues join us and one of them will deal exclusively with the organization of all the data we have for these victims we tried to do that last year together with the secretariat for democratic memory and with the very scarce sources and funds and people we had we managed to work already on the map with I believe 122 graves in Castellana Mancha and we now have 193 graves located in Castellana Mancha we believe that this is all of the graves that we know of right now I mean some data needs to perhaps be polished Jaime and I were talking about it before but yeah we believe that the graves data is quite updated now victims that's a different kettle of fish that's much more complicated we don't have the human resources to do this but we've begun to update the victims linked to each grave we thought that would be the easiest way to systematize the information and the colleague who worked on this last year for two months managed to update the list of victims linked to the grave since you that real particularly the ones that were less than 100 victims in that mass grave because of the little time he had now this is linked to another project because at the same time as we are updating the identification in number of the victims linked to each grave location we are generating a copy of the same program to offer it for regional public so that we can have a whole regional map not just provincial there is still a lot to be done now we hope to have funding for some time now and that will be of help and will continue updating the state map of graves with victims linked to each grave and we will also have this copy for the regional government so that we can at least systematize everything that's to do with the mortal victims because in previous projects all these other categories of victims were taken into account but we want to break them down how many people died as a result of frango's repression in our region and I believe that's that I wanted to finish if I may with a couple of challenges we are finding and we hope to solve in the future if we are to deal with this matter and it is that to do this national census of victims where we work with the census of the different regional communities we have to bear in mind that sometimes only estimations can give us the final data we need on victims identity the victims in the different graves because sometimes the written reports are falsified or they don't have all the information and the oral sources unfortunately are disappearing and then we see that we need to unify criteria this is crucial to have a regional and then national census we need to check whether we are counting the victims executed in or coming from and we need to make sure we are on the same page so that we can work in an organized way both for the national map of graves and the census that's all from me as questions I'll be around thank you muchas gracias Ainoa thank you Ainoa I believe that in Castilla la Mancha what you do in is pretty amazing particularly because you've done it in a lot of time you've started recently and you're doing a lot it's true that as you say the excimation policy needs to be recognized and a priority we believe that is the case from the secretariat of state and part of our budget around 60% is for that and also the new democratic memory act means that we can proceed to do the excimations directly when there are certain conditions which mean that we cannot have contributions from the cities or the regions and yes we need to unify criteria to unify our work we are now at an analytical stage where I mean it could be construed as a paralysis but I think it is important to analyze things first this is strategic we need to stop take stock and then proceed to building the national census rather than do it in a haphazard mana so Victor Manuel Ramiro Pérez who is a researcher researcher on sexual dissidents he works as general director for diversity in the government of canarias in the canary islands thank you good morning all thank you for being here with us thank you to the European observatory for the memory for the kind invitation thank you to the university of Barcelona and the secretariat of state for memory you can see on the picture Manuel Alfonso this is a carnival in the canaria islands in the sixties more or less this clearly breaks the sexual binary encode next to that there is a jail the sea where many homosexuals were incarcerated just because they were expresing themselves like Manuel Alfonso used to he didn't go to that jail but he went to other jails in the islands because of his sexual dissidents the canarian law in 2005 and the current law 2022 for democratic memory cover these cases LGTB people, dissident people as we used to call them as victims of franquist repression during the dictatorship repression mechanisms the repression mechanisms were very varied there were legislative repressions through the act for malfesance the criminal act for public scandal or even another regulation for the protection of women for example was used against many lesbians so we're talking about a mechanism of repression which was very varied heterogeneous now based on these legal framework and particularly the legal framework in the canaria island because the strategy comes before the current legislation we in the canaria island decided to develop this strategy for memory we have three main pillars the first one research on repression this research for years was not of the interest of academia or public institutions luckily over the last few years we've had some young researchers interested in the subject in different parts of the Spanish state and also the institutions are now showing an interest we've done some research work hiring people directly the idea has been to gather material which could be historically relevant we've cataloged everything and placed it at the disposal of different archival sources which I'll mention later this is quite a new project we started in 2020 so under three years the first thing we thought of was that we needed to gather the testimonials of older LGTBIQ people because their own testimonials were soon going to disappear in fact Alfonso I had the pleasure of interviewing him for my book and he died a couple of years ago so those testimonials are about to disappear so we'll see later how these interviews became part of the archive of memory apart from direct research we also tried to make sure that there is research on memory we have agreements with the University of La Laguna they have the research center for LGTBIQ studies and they're going to work on memory amongst other things a specific funding for canarian universities for research projects on this the second pillar of our strategy is the divulgación the popularization of our memory through different products some of them have already appeared as a result of our research or there are other parallel proposals that I'll mention at the end the third pillar is the memory archive on which I'll expand later and there is not to make it a single archive we want to multiply the spaces where these materials are available now to start with we saw that the main space for the material we wanted to gather had to be the provincial historical archives as institutional spaces which would give these funds stability, preservation and ease of access so it would be a way of making sure that the material would be constantly available and in these historical archives particularly in Santa Cruz de Tenerife there is a specific research line for a sexual divergence memory where all these materials are going to be placed and left open for researchers and then we have our portal within the website of the government of the Canaria Islands where all this is going to be posted and it's going to be open to whoever has an interest for it this is not a victim's database you know sexual dissidence is something very specific it's to do with people's private life it's to do with fear I mean all the people are still fearful of expressing their sexual dissidence despite the time that's gone past after the dictatorship so we're not considering a victim's database but rather we just want to gather the testimonials of the people who wish to express themselves as part of our research we are now drafting an agreement with the University of the Canaria Islands so that they can have these materials on their website which is the digital memory of the Canaria Islands it's part of the university's website within the website of historical memory for the Canaria Islands for the vice consular of justice this memory web has different sections this is sexual dissidence this is people by the data that we have been researching we have testimonials, audio, video, legislation and we have a link that takes us to everything to do with the strategy for historical memory now what do we have in our specific web for sexual dissidence the strategy, the goal, what it contains we explain what the historical memory digital archive is and we explain the research methodology the theoretical basis how we gathered our data and all the bibliographical references and the names of the people who are part of the team obviously all the conceptual work was done in advance and we also post here all the interviews the main stages bibliographical references all the important gatherings we participate in etc within, as part of the interviews over the last few years we've obtained 39 interviews with LGTB people residents of the islands older people this obstacle of people who are fearful many people just turned us down they said that they did not want to remember they did not want to come out we will post those interviews the picture you have there is from Hierro Island a tiny island where we have these two people Adela and Nacho their mother and son, she is Lesbian she lives with her partner and he's a gay man and they've told us about their experience in a rural space in Elbinar village which is an absolutely tiny village in the island so it's a very peculiar context and as I said our idea is to post our interviews and they cover all of the islands apart from a tiny one la graciosa where we didn't find anybody something else that we've done in our project developing the strategy is the significance we wanted to find the main places the places of significance for sexual dissidents memory there are already plates talking this significance for example jails which held people because of their sexual dissidents but we've also identified other places in Canarias and Tenerife spaces which were spaces of socialization of prostitution for example many trans women ended up in prostitution just out of dire economic need then repression spaces and visibilization spaces and spaces where we saw the first public actions by homosexual groups in the Canaria islands so we've hung a plate in all of these places explaining why they are significant last year we found out that one of the plates in Parque Santa Catalina in Las Palmas had been defaced and it had been actually removed we're going to obviously pack up but it's a sad sign of the times we live in so we talk about the name of the place we give the history of the place and say why the place is significant on the website we have links to audiovisual material and something else we've been doing over the last two years is some publications this is quite recent it was in fact launched last week it is a book, crossed lives memories of trans people from franquism to now the material of this book is based on all the interviews we've held and in this book there are personal memories they're not individually classified by a classified according to themes so we cover people's childhood how they did at work, repression at home in the street or what happened if the ones who went to jail so it is a thematic organization rather than an individual one and we will be publishing before the end of the year something else on the first homosexual movements with the transition and HIV AIDS and how it affected the LGBTQ community in the Canary Islands we've also organized different meetings and gatherings over the last few years in 2020 and 2021 these gatherings were held obviously online because of the context but this year we've organized a state meeting together with the ministry for equality with representatives from different parts of Spain and the meeting in fact took place last week Thursday and Friday last week those are some of the participants and it was really interesting all these meetings the previous years and this year they are all posted on the dissidents website so that material is always there available for the public we also have other materials for example a show on the Tefía Agricultural Colony it has already toured the islands and we want to take it to wherever they want to see it we are also supporting for example plays there is a specific play based on Paco España a Canary Island Transformist he was a true pioneer and there is a brief play as well on Octavio Garcia Afanawa who was on one of the people who suffered repressions and in Tefía and one of the few people who spoke out while he was in jail and we have some videos of his and finally we also have contributed material for another memory unit which is being organized at the county council level and with this I have finished thank you very much if you have any questions I will be delighted to answer thank you very much Victor Manuel thank you Victor Manuel I think that was really interesting to have your vision your presentation because you tackle a particular kind of repression which was very specific and the dictatorship and it is part of the definition clearly of the new definition of victims in the new law there is a specific chapter on the repression of LGBTI people I think the work you do is particularly important because as you said if you weren't to interview these people soon well those testimonials would disappear because they are getting to be an age it is really important for the future and also we are aware that there is a lot of that information which cannot be published but well it is there finally we are going to listen to Eva Maria García Barambio she has got a degree in history and she is a technical employee at the Balencia regional government good morning all first of all can you hear me? thank you good morning first of all I want to thank the state secretary for historical memory and Eurom their kind invitation to us to participate in this international seminar it is a pleasure to be here with you all and to learn from your projects I'd like to start by saying that in our database program well we are part of the democratic memory policies of the regional government which came about in 2015 with the change of government the first step was to develop an actions policy which administratively translated into a plan for historical memory establishing goals and main axis of action to guarantee within the regional government the proper response to the claims from the victims and the claims from the Balencian society as a whole so from the beginning of 2016 we started working frantically to develop all our action lines in order to comply with the principles of truth justice reparación and no repetition as established by united nations for example we are providing grants to municipalities and family associations to carry out projects to recover historical memory for example the exhumation unidentification of remains from mass graves the removal of franco's grandmother the refurbishment of places of historical memory also hiring researchers publications the production of audio visual documents and also documentaries and itinerant shows there's also a yearly theater session and we also provide quality journals on memory historical memory and we also try to create a historical memory on our citizens who suffered the repression on the franco we also create a website and we keep feeding it on all of these we also grant prizes and awards for work done on historical memory by school children and teenagers in the province of palencia among our main guidelines we had the creation of a victims office the idea was to give the victims and their relatives the possibility of having a public administration recognize their version of the events that took place under the regression in order to dignify the victims and make them feel heard we also wanted to work with all archive sources and we wanted to link the victims or their relatives with those sources and we want to help citizens to search for information about their loved ones find where they are buried etc it is on this where we are finding the need to have proper solid research tools the victims the office to provide attention to victims of the repression has a main seat in Valencia and it also travels to listen to citizens for whom it's hard to travel at the beginning it had quite a lot of success but then in 2019 this office was closed and then we at the delegation decided to continue answering citizens claims either in person or on the phone or on internet and we also provide counseling on where to find information in parallel with the activity of the work of the victims office we were aware of the fact an important part of our task in favor of memory was focused on the compilation of historical documents in order to do that we began contacts with the archives of the kingdom of Valencia the historical archives of the kingdom of Valencia the general archive of the debut of Valencia so that they could send us information about the funds they also kept in of the period covering the civil war on the end of dictatorship to include all that information the information obtained had to be the instruments the tools for internal work to answer to the growing needs of all the requests and also to turn them available through our website for the first time the deputación began to offer an answer to those citizens that were asking about how to find their dead ancestors or how to act in order to recover the rest from the common graves the data gathering or the data collection required the effort of the team of people who at that time were just people and now it's three this problem was solved by hiring part-time staff with the collaboration of the some people, young people and people hired through different structures we did not have a computer expert in our delegation this meant that we had to use this service of computer support of the deputación they had to design the structure of our database based on our needs taking care of the management and elaborate the search modules of each one of them devoting to this and the result was not always ideal because in some cases their answer was that it was not their competence this forces us to outsource the service all this collaborated with us without ensuring how much they can do for us considering their own workload this generated a big amount of delay with respect to the compilation criteria to create the different databases it's worth mentioning the common element in all of them in total eight was that they contain information about people who are born in the province of Valencia we can classify them into big groups the first one includes those where we didn't do any previous research in this group we can see the basis of victims or data just given to us by the authors of the research totally for free or we obtain them through agreements or the signature of collaboration agreement or after signing agreements with NGOs non-profit NGOs in other cases in this same group the database is the fruit of the reuse of information obtained of open resources in order to extract it from the volunteers the list of Franco's victims provided by the Catalan Archive of information our databases include victims of Franco's repression in the Valencian community victims of repolican victims in the Valencian community legal and military procedures during the dictatorship and sentences of the courts affecting valentians the second group of databases includes all those other databases where we started the previous research in this class we include those databases created with data obtained after the search of archives either by our technicians or the staff that we had hired under our supervision data come from the funds of the archives of the Kingdom of Valencia the military archives of Guadalajara and the general archives of the deputación de valencian databases includes our staff of Carabineros corps republicana soldiers during 1936 and 1939 in Valencia which includes republicans soldiers of all spain international bregadist valencians that were that were affected by by different sources we detect the errors considering the complexity to find the place of birth of inmates and because they had different mixed both the files of inmates and their the packages that kept them in prison questions that we include in our databases that the work doesn't end with the publication but rather it continues with the correction work correction that stems from relatives or from the work of technicians the problems that being faithful to the original documents in tales because being readers oftentimes we have to transcribe data as they are no even if we know that they have they include mistakes in other times we make the mistakes due to the difficulty of the handwriting and on the other hand we have another product which is the lack of education between our databases and the request of information that we receive because we often receive requests from citizens from the rest of Spain and we have to focus on the victims who are born or that lived in the province of Valencia but we have answered to their needs of information but this entails that we have to use external sources of information to fulfill our counseling service on the other hand the development of our work evidences the need of potentiating databases on a national basis and to improve agreement signed with institute of history and military culture and the ministry of defense in order to allow the digitalized funds that are part of the databases can be disseminated in our website mentioning its origin finally it's worth mentioning another product that makes it difficult to increase the number of our databases that has to do with the lack of information on the area of Valencia and its province lacking the unity of criteria considering the measures to use in order to have public access granted we can add the disappearance lack of conservation deficient cataloging and the lack of knowledge about its origin and in some cases here we can add the difficulty of access to documents and the lack of knowledge about those funds that are kept in archives and that are not acceptable for research a sad situation considering that these documents are fundamental to build our social history favoring the repair of victims of restoring their dignity through the knowledge of truth safeguarding the democratic memory and conveying it to the future generations however we are expecting considering the new law on the democratic memory in order to favor the free universal access to documents both from victims as well as researchers and the citizenship in general as well as all these related to the care well I need to drink water she says because I'm speaking very fast and I can hardly speak and finally we celebrate the creation of the census of the documentary funds for the democratic memory as detailed in article number 27 this will be a very important tool in all that has to do with the representation and the violation of human rights it will require an important investment on a continuous basis for years but without a shadow for doubt it will be worth it thank you very much to all of you well thank you very much everybody it was a great experience I want to tell you the truth it's fantastic to see the work you've done from the deputación considering that lack of support from the central state and from the different regional bodies some people talk about the deputación the theo de real and the case of theo de real and valencia as well the creativity you've had to use to create the different themes and well it's quite important you also mentioned and it was part of the previous panel you put this information to be used by people and people get in touch with you guys to be more specific to correct errors etc and you also mentioned that we had to collaborate with the ministry of defense with all the archives and that's what we're doing from the secretary state of democratic memory while working with the ministry of home affairs and the ministry of culture and the ministry of defense with respect to the census of the governmental funds and well, chasores muñoz has an embryo of that census than we have to to finish the collaboration with the other ministries well these are some of the ideas with respect to what you said before we have a first intervention and I believe that in the census of data victims it's so important it's a challenge to integrate information stemming from different sources and also the challenge the next challenge is to create an interface which is intuitive enough so that it can be used by the average user you also mentioned the awareness raising that all these works have that turn into real virtual memory places but that have an important value we also mentioned that these are living projects to guarantee survival that are part to eliminate some myths all that is detailed and contrasted information will allow us to know our history much better in that sense all the information is welcome here we heard about the importance of continuing supporting exhumations the importance of unifying criteria when building census mainly the state census we mentioned the specific case of repression of the LGTBI Q plus which is particularly valuable because this effort was not made probably everything would be lost but it's a well an account that is not publicized and finally what you have to do with the left as I said it's a process an ongoing process that requires different teams and for workers and people who are behind it requires creativity in order to nurture these teams we have 15 minutes for Q&A session and let me open up the floor I don't know if we have our microphone round here roving microphone without which we cannot work hello good morning thank you so much because it's been so interesting can you please stand up thank you my name is Isabel Alonso from the Catalan Association of X political prisoners of frankism I was very interested about your information and your presentations it's sad to see that in Casale Leon where I was born so advanced and or it is not maybe I would like to ask you all some questions that will make things even more complex the civil workers experience that are very extensive and that most of them ended up in punishments teachers or trainers would be interesting and going to the Tardar Frankism I'd like to know if you've observed that or if it would be a situation that you have in mind it would be unacceptable and one more thing that I was interested in is the Tardar Frankism the late Frankism and the Court of Public Order that were studied by Juanjo de la Aguila yes, excess judiciary assassinations, the very high punishments many year sentences the dictatorship was a dictatorship till the end this was reflected by the Court of Public Order and this can be part of the databases if it's not already part of it these are sanctions or disciplinary actions against civil servants you've done a great job I'd like to thank you just two brief comments with respect to Castilla León we have to be honest on the secretary of state we have been collaborating with them if I said that what we are doing now is to update the common graves map but with respect to this map we are in collaboration with Castilla León the University of Burgos did an important job which has been uploaded to our website with the victims and with the common graves with respect to several workers civil servants we had a congress in Salamanto where we studied with further detail the disciplinary actions in the education sphere and during the late frankism as we could see in the LGTBIQ plus group they were they included many victims let me give the floor to the speakers so that they can complement their participation it's on yes in the case of Castilla La Mancha the first portal that I mentioned victims of frankism in Castilla La Mancha it includes data from people that were that received disciplinary actions this can be found in there it's not on now it's on in our case we have another approach the disciplinary actions of staff we have the documents which is in the general archive but in the late frankism we could see this in the oral archive which includes 110 interviews all of them indexed and translated Spanish to Valentino vice versa and there we have the the testimony of many people who had lived in the late frankism and people, some people that considering what my my fellow panellist after the years that we have all that have gone by well some people are afraid because they were homosexuals and they don't really feel like talking publicly about it but we gather some of these examples in our interviews in the case of Novar I would like to mention some things we focused our presentation in the project of integration of all this works and it's worth mentioning that we have a lot of material that is still in the stage of integration the documentary found of historical memory of the public in a Christian Novar which is a responsible body to undertake the historical research work all we've worked in all these senses and in our database where in the stage of a final streamlining and well we conceptualize the repression facts so every person is connected to the different repression facts that could have purging, prison etc so as the research advances and progresses well we add more information to the database our idea is not to leave any repressibility outside with respect to the late frankism and during the morning in the first panel we heard about it in the afternoon I'm sure we'll continue with it we heard about the different terms offering documents etc obviously this is more complex the closer we get to this we've been promoting some interviews and oral memory gathering projects amongst anti-frankism organizations some of them generated some PhD thesis and the peer master project this is an area that we are very interested in in the database of the documentary funds we have some of these based on these projects but this is still not in an embryo in their stage but in a more initial stage the repression of the coup d'etat obviously involves a trajectory which has lasted decades and it's more consolidated so let's say that this project is like the end but there are other works complementary works that have generated some reports about LGTBI plus groups in the bar or depending on the availability of sources we are at that stage of reports etc and there are other elements some teachers that were purged and that were affected by other sources exiles etc so all this requires or needs to cover different sources of interest and with respect to Galefe the issue of this is simply represented because part of the previous research part of the database of them as a both this was stemmed from other works like Julio Brava who were on economic repression dealing with agricultural associations but non is a both this we studied systematically the military trials up to the of 2014 well in Galicia I didn't say it before but I'll say now there's a new agreement of exhibition of common graves and many work already work is being done about the antifrancos guerrilla this is a field that is progressing chronologically and finally with the funds that we mentioned before in terra memoria part of the funds that are or that come from this torga are referred specifically to the democratic transition there is an important part of this research that was mentioned previously on research well we focused on different reports on social danger after data didn't have this but I was thinking about the possibility of cross referencing this data with other databases of victims where maybe there we have different elements because we're focusing on those reports I know that there is not the reports such as the public scandal reports that includes a lot of work requires a lot of work to find 10 or 12 reports of this type of dissidents we had to look at over 1000 reports I found 190 which had to do with homosexuality reports in other fat maybe harder but it's possible that this should be worked specifically those that can refer to this type of dissidents there was a question at the bottom no, no question more than a question is a comment seeing the different presentations I believe that for the data integration of creation of the state senses of victims we have a challenge in the horizon and I could see the different presentations that is a challenge and it's an opportunity as well the challenge is that in the var they have a categorization of victims in the case of if I'm not mistaken they have categories there were 68 different groups in the case of Galicia you have some 13 different categories of victims I don't remember if you counted the different categories in the Canary Islands we saw a part of it of sexual violence or the data integration of different database sources where we have different categories it's impossible to automate things so one of the challenges will be to establish or determine which are the valid categories the law on democratic memory that was recently published and approved I think is the first law that speaks about categories specifying them in the afternoon which is like a specialist of the different laws on memory I'm not mistaken by saying this is the first time that a law lists the different victims categories maybe it's a good starting point for the creation of the state censors of victims this may be a good starting point to take into account the different university projects deputaciones memorias etc and using these victim categories and it's an opportunity for the secretary of state of a democratic memory to help these projects as we could see one of the problems I have is the funding to finance this type of work the normalization of the victims categories and on the other hand we could see previously of the vocabulary tomorrow Catalonia will make a presentation of its project and I don't think there are any databases that include normalize the vocabulary or nomenclator with respect to the repressions sites as memorias so here we have a lot of work done and a lot of work to do to integrate the different databases which is a challenge but maybe with some funds from the secretary of state of memory could be also an opportunity so that everyone with a certain degree of independence and autonomy can row in the same direction it's not a question but rather it's a comment thank you I think it's a very good comment well first of all we should have had an updated law and then work the order of reality is what it is well after seeing the problems others had to build by building databases after records written by hand in Cyrillic Greek and Hebrew languages well after that complexity we cannot complain about any of this and with respect to funding I believe that it's true that we are doing as much as possible following different sources of of information and funding it's true that currently we are building these sensors and we are trying to gather all the levels of sensitiveness we need to have a clear there is a final question I think I think of Joseph Jordan my name it's totally Balencian I'm here because of my historic interest I represent the blue triangle an association called the Buchenban association and I'm called Machausen so connecting to all the previous presentations and with our colleagues that talked about the political prisoners and the Chivianosophalic order I would like to ask of Natharroa if you include the people that were affected during the transition with respect to the our colleagues from Balencian and Castilla León with another component the military coup succeeded very quickly and you had 5000 people that were killed etc so there were the victims of reprisals in Salamanca you had also intellectuals you had the university León more of a workers area connecting with the studios where there was a very important workers movement with respect to what our colleague from Castilla as I said interesting place if you have considered this work in this extraordinary work you have done on historical memory if you have observed the illegitimate character of the sentences that we are observing also in Catalonia the illegitimacy of the courts that worked during many many years to our colleague from Balencian I'd like to ask that I was in Bila Famae airport in Castilla and it was used by the Republic of Spain when it fell in the hands of the Franko's army it was occupied by them it was used by the conder religion I visited it and I found a very highly abandoned place very well taken care of that scene that was trying to stay away from the historical memory is giving distance to historical facts that happened at that time and there was some kind of time that these guys were pilots of the republic pilots of the conder religion is not the same because republic pilots or the republic was a legitimate government and the other guys were the rebels according to the military court of justice they were the rebels but the repression was done the other way thank you very much for your work thank you adios can responde would you like to would you like to answer from Navarra first because Josemi would you like to you've got a microphone yes if I may I'd like to take this opportunity to just contribute a comment professional at the general directorate of historical memory in the regional government of Catalonia and the presentations your presentations from different parts of Spain from different public bodies show clearly that there is a huge dispersal of databases huge scattering when a citizen comes to us for information about a relative they may have disappeared in Catalonia and we have our own resources to look for information and luckily those resources have been polished and interrelated using DEDALO we've already heard it mentioned and that has allowed us to cross reference different databases tomorrow my colleague Alia Mesalles will talk about it but when we have cases of people who suffered reprisals or were disappeared and then taken outside Catalonia then it's it's hell I mean we send letters to wherever and the answer is usually yeah yeah yeah we basically don't want to know I mean it's I mean I'm sorry but as ananza it's just not enough and then these very scattered databases may show that yeah we need to unify them which is what I believe is being discussed here but I believe that things could be done better and improve our searches to facilitate our searches for example when there is a search outside the administration in civil society for example there is a website called Buscar Combatientes I mean when I have to look for somebody who got lost somewhere in Spain I just google them there and it takes me to all the resources available and sometimes it just takes me directly to the document it's amazing that's what I miss from the state from the public government I think that you know had they developed that resource we wouldn't all be trying to fight our own battle perhaps this hub that we heard of with the Arlesen archives that's what we'd need that's what I miss when I'm looking for somebody outside Catalonia we need this kind of resource that will cross reference what's been done everywhere in Castilla La Mancha Valencia wherever I mean that's just my humble opinion but anyway my colleague tomorrow will tell you what we're doing here I believe our manager wanted our head wanted to take the floor yeah I just wanted to mention a couple of things based on comments we've heard we've been working on this for some time as you know and I think that was partly the goal of this meeting that we've organized together with Eurom we want to start thinking in a more executive functional manner on what you were saying and some questions as well our idea is that having passed the law it's now an act 2022 we now need to organize our actions with regional communities and other administrative levels obviously but with mostly regional communities to carry out an organized work but we also need to get organized internally because within this state administration there are different databases some of them are accessible others aren't, for example, parties everybody can access parties but they work in a different way or there are other databases from the ministry of culture which work in a different way or the ministry of education they've got a list of all the educational communities including teachers from primary teachers to university I mean it's organized in a different way I mean I'm no expert in archives, I'm a lawyer so I have to trust what the archive professionals do because this gets really complicated but I do know there is a lot to be done and that's why we want to bring together all these experiences and that's why we'll have the panel this afternoon and then on some specific points the democratic memory act was passed a month ago so yeah, I mean it's still not very well known but for example the declaration of nullity of the sentences and illegitimacy of the bodies those rulings came from and that's already there because that has been declared by the parliament so that is done then the concept of transition there is an objective concept of democratic or political transition what the law says that all victims after the 29th of December 1978 all victims are automatically included in this victims census and then there is a technical commission with historians last Friday I believe last week we had a seminar organized by the confederate group of the Encoen Unidas Podemos the political party at the parliament representing different territories because the law establishes that they can also cover victims after the 29th of December 1978 when Franco died so that they can see those professionals can see which victims can be considered victims of reprisals or victims whose human rights were violated because of the situation of lack of democracy whatever so from the 29th of December 1978 there is another stage that they are no longer victims of dictatorship and war it's a different kind of work there are different publications on this but I also wanted to say although we have Jaime and this afternoon sorry tomorrow we will have José Luis but we are definitely at your disposal at everybody's disposal we are here to help with all archives since we started working things have changed considerably we've had the three decisions from the Ministry of Defense of opening up all previous documentation so not opening retroactively the law on official secrets so archives have been open and yeah we are there trying to help everybody whether you represent institutions or organizations or private individuals thank you José Luis are you going to answer the question and then we have Castilla La Mancha and Valencia I'll be brief because I think we're running late in the case of Navarra we have two acts 2013 and 2018 which mark a particular moment in time 1978 at the Navarra institute of historical memory that's where we base ourselves on but with the law within the department of peace coexistence and human rights we're also working on other time spaces and other issues so the general directorate has launched a call for projects researching violations of human rights we have received different research projects for this and then I also want to mention that in Navarra we have law from 2022 for reparations for victims for political acts caused by extreme right groups and political figures that body has already met three times and from January we expect to start receiving complaints by people who feel that their rights were violated by public institutions or human rights or sorry extreme right wing groups so we are going beyond the dictatorship time we are going way beyond and our the subjects we cover are also much wider as for Castilla La Mancha I'd like to say that the portal of victims of dictatorship covers 14 categories so completely different figure and we establish a difference between people who were prisoners of Nazi concentration camps and people who died in Nazi concentration camps but yeah I think it is important to unify criteria for classification and accounting in graves and victims or else it's going to be impossible to have a national census or to have a graves maps which makes sense and then on rulings and courts whenever we publish something on this we say that the rulings come from illegitimate courts we establish a difference between people who were murdered or who were executed under an illegal court ruling because there are also time elements those who were killed because of a court ruling that tends to be post war and it's usually easier to identify those victims the ones who were executed following a court ruling but we always specified that this is an illegal court ruling I'll see if it needed to be specified saying that this happened under Franco but there you go I wanted to answer the representative from Amical Matt Hausen we at the regional government have a traveling show now titled francist victims and it covers victims who were sent to Nazi camps and we're also cooperating with our old son archives through one of their associated researchers Antonio Muñoz from the Robira Virgela University because they had different objects that used to belong to Valencian victims of reprisals and they wanted to know whether we could help and find their relatives and as a result of that cooperation we held a homage to three brothers who were victims of reprisals they were members of the French resistance and they were captured and taken to Buzambal and finally I'd like to mention that the Villa Famesse aerodrome is in Castellón obviously and we can only work in Valencia so it's beyond our area of action so we do provide funds however for the refurbishment and the refurbishment and for historical places be trenches, aerodroms whatever sorry if I may the agreements of the sectorial conference so the funding that the state gives the regionals well this year there was a change in one of the points so that 33% of the funding that goes to memorial actions not just exhumations now covers everything to do with places that were either concentration camps or places of forced labour just so that in your own territories so that you know that part of the funding can also be used for this if the autonomous community come to us and request funds so we have this action plan plan for exhumations which covers memorialization of places related to illegal burials or killing places this year there is something new which is funds to remove remains of Franco's dictatorship particularly thinking of small municipalities which really can el afford to remove big statues or the like excellent thank you we are going to leave it here we want to sound call the speakers you have been brilliant in your presentations