 Okay, so We're gonna get started and actually the first order of business is to swear in our new Okay Yeah They're awesome Okay, all right The office of the counselor the city of Montpelier and will there and do equal right and justice to all people to the best of your judgment and abilities According to law to help you God And also do you solemnly swear that you'll be true and faithful to the state of month that state of Vermont? And that you will not directly or indirectly do any accurate thing interest the Constitution thereof as established by convention So help you guys Do you solemnly swear that you will faithfully execute the office? And will there and do equal right and justice to all people to the best of your judgment and abilities according to laws and also solemnly swear that you will be true and faithful to the state of Vermont And will not directly or indirectly do any act or thing interest the Constitution thereof as established by convention So help you guys So I want to welcome counselor Jack and Ashley back and welcome Lauren to the council. Yay. So glad to have you glad to have all of you Okay, so we are gonna Call the meeting to order so the first item is to review and approve the agenda And I don't think that there are any changes or have been any proposed changes So I'm going to consider the cons of the agenda approved without objection Next is general business and appearances, which is a time for any member of the public to address the council on any issue that is otherwise not in our agenda and If anyone wants to say anything now is a great time to do it if you state your name and Where you're from and then also try to keep your comments to two minutes or less And that's true for any other further comments on the rest of the meeting. So welcome Currently living in the first district The reason why I come for the council today is for a reconsideration for the next year The parking ban for Elm Street Parking ban on Elm Street. I find this year to best of my knowledge Snow removers and drain cleaners have only appeared twice this calendar year There's a lot of public housing who do not have easy access to Off-street parking or available parking I know many people along that stretch who currently have to make arrangements with either friends or families far away Traveling by foot across the city is a very difficult endeavor in some parts of the city Especially during some cold years where we have a lot of icing I myself have had to have in-laws stay at hotels Because I have we don't have to have the accommodations for them to be able to park off-street nearby our house I believe that majority of Elm Street residents would be able and willing to accommodate the current restrictions of Monitoring the city's requirements for off-street when snowstorms there or when snow removal needs to be done So I do believe that we would be able to be beneficial to the residents of that area To have the snow will be reconsidered For us to be able to be able to park when there is no immediate emergency for snow removal And there's no immediate time when snow removal is going to be Can I ask you a couple of follow-up questions? So Being unfamiliar with Elm Street's you know situation with the parking and so is it it's one of these streets that it's always banned and It is it the entire length or is it just a portion from the best my knowledge is from spring spring Street to State Street Okay, and so that's the portion that you would hope would be sort of in the rest of the mix of like Only having a ban when there's a snow event or removal needs to happen Yes, okay, I just add to that that we're gonna have a parking ban de-brief on an agenda probably in April or May there's Issues that we want to share with the council. We've been doing it for three or four years now and You know talk about what's working and what isn't working. So this is something we can add into the consideration So there'll be a council agenda item in April or May about the parking being in general Yes, so we'll certainly keep that in mind and I'd love to have you Make sure you want on the list of things we'll advocate of it for it here as well, but Hopefully Okay, great. Thank you I want to commend that with Significant badgering we've made huge progress on keeping the drains clear and the sidewalks unflooded especially the ponding in the crosswalks that freezes I Rarely get a chance to compliment We'll take it. Thank you. So on the parking. I want to absolutely second or support the prior comments And I noticed Baldwin Street, it's like a seasonal no parking But it's of necessity. There's a dozen cars that park there. I'm just saying We're we we still science should be removed because except when Snow removal emergencies can get them out of here, but to in fact Turn a blind eye to posted science is counterproductive In the next day or two we're at a critical point in house Transportation of a very close vote on whether they move forward with a feasibility study for train service passenger train service through Montpelier The agency of transportation is complaining that they don't want to put 85,000 In a consultant to do it it might trigger positive train control which would mean retrofitting the blood cars But my point is that this is I think we were remiss and not Accounting for train travel in our multimodal transit center And we have an opportunity to do a little bit of patents here and get help support this feasibility study because passenger rail With cars that are already owned and available here on this track Between what the the junction and berry would help the whole state It would be a significant demonstration project for the feasibility of passenger rail. He would also alleviate or demonstrate the lesser need or Steve what bill is that this is Haven't heard about it till just now I'm going to eat. I'm about to email you to ask like You know, who are the right people to the two Or like the chair I'll send you an email and okay But he's running out of time to get more witnesses and V-trans was in today I think y'all are right to swing boats Tim Corcoran and Dave Potter and just say this is important to Montpelier in central Vermont and we're your host for Four months out of the year. So give us a break and help us creates alleviate parking and get you to the state and Steve my understanding was V-trans actually supported the study today in committee, right? supported it with a caveat that they would have to hire a consultant it was a less than Less than a hundred percent it could easily die and now is not the time when so many other ducks are already Well, thank you very much for Yeah, keeping us, you know prized at that. Thank you Okay, anyone else Okay All right on to the consent agenda. Is there a motion regarding the consent agenda? I move the consent agenda Further discussion All in favor, please say aye. I oppose Okay, since agenda passes. So if anybody was here for the street closure application for the muddy onion the farmers market Or a liquor license that just passed Okay, so Onto some orientation Well, I don't have a lot for orientation actually was Had intended for that to be the very first thing But I would note that we have the new 2019 handbooks on your desk So they they it's very similar to the ones you've had in the past But we do update them each year with current information and any changes that we know about So again, I urge you to go through these it, you know, even some of you that have been on For a few years, it's good to reread this and just remind ourselves And and if there's anything that it says in here that we're doing that we're not doing then We should either change the book or change our practices So do that think more importantly last year. We did a huge series of site visits with three new council members and a couple other council members that were first year We I know Lauren would like to do that this year didn't know if everybody wanted to be involved Or my thought was maybe we just schedule her and let you all know if people want to do a refresher When she's going I'd definitely go to some because I missed a couple last year and likewise Yes Yeah, if I can go I would jump in but maybe not make it to all of them I'm particularly interested in getting in time to visit the pool. We didn't visit the pool I would also like to do an update on the water resource recovery Oh, yeah, just to kind of get a sense now for knowing that the project is moving forward and like right so it is It's a you know, it's all bid I think they're just waiting for spring for construction to do all the final details and still get some funding packages And but I'll ask for an update on that Plus it's the most informative one that I've done Okay should do the pool And actually you need to talk in your mics more. I'm here. I can't hear you maybe they can but When you turn your head you miss it, it's just a fussy mic Thank you. I will I will do my best to be louder people don't people usually tell me to be quiet Okay, so we will anyway so as far as orientation goes We will schedule site visits with councilmember hurl and let you all know when and where they're happening and Anyone can hop on if they like Plan yep. Okay Excuse me on to the ethics policy. So this is a document Excuse me that we approve every year Just affirming the Basically the rules of conduct that we are gonna abide by Any thoughts amendments questions objections Yes, there are no changes from previous years Although you you all could make them if you liked but there are none Okay, we can if there are no suggestions. We should probably have a motion to approve them What do you say can it? Yeah, that's great. That's fine Can I and there was a second? Oh Yes, I just asked a sort of general question. I mean My assumption is although I just want to make sure that this is not an erroneous assumption Is that we just put forward like for example, I'm a prosecutor so things in Involving law enforcement. I do I need should I just raise that every time so that or what's the sort of preference? I Think probably just every I would I would assume, you know every time it comes up as a topic You can't preface it and I I mean unless you stand to make money on Or if you have a direct conflict or I couldn't be objective for some reason, right? Sure, that I just wanted to make sure we I like I like to know what expectations are always long as So there was a motion in a second say further discussion I'll have a please say aye. I opposed. Okay. Thank you all All right Oh, and so now we need to elect some officers so Procedure hold on a minute. Oh, I did skip that one. Thank you rules of procedure So again, this is just how we're gonna operate our Conduct our meetings. I move that we adopt the rules of procedure as Proposed and as adopted in previous years second Hey, any further discussion? All in favor, please say aye. I opposed great All right now on to electing officers so we need Someone to be president vice president and parliamentarian for the city council One hypothesis is that people are interested in what they were interested that you know what they were They were interested in those offices again that you know, that's one possibility or if there's other people who are interested in those Offices, that's fine, too What are your thoughts? Well, I'm wondering if if it might be helpful to just sort of explain. I know that they're super basic Thank you like explanation, but Sure, so the council president Leads the council discussion if I am absent and then the vice president leads council procedures and discussions if both the mayor and the president are our absent and the parliament parliamentarian Helps us clarify When we have procedural questions The other the other rule of the president and less frequently the vice president But in the event that there's a public event or something and the mayor can't make it then The council president will step in to represent the city is top elected official And remind me Ashley you were president last year. Is that correct? And I can't remember who was vice president Donna and Anybody like one of those positions Yeah, yes, I would volunteer to be parliamentarian Okay, oh Yes, no nominations. I nominate Jack McCullough to be Anybody else like to be parliamentarian and he already wants want to nominate someone else to be parliamentarian No, I guess we'll just take it one one step at a time then All right, all in favor of Jack being the parliamentarian. Oh, there was there was not a motion He nominated did you accept a second a second is not required for It's a new era This is not here to contradict This isn't the only organization Good and Donnie you seconded Okay, so all in favor, please say aye aye opposed. All right. Thank you Do you accept I accept apparently we don't need a second for their discussion or other nominations Okay, all in favor, please say aye aye opposed great. Thank you. Congratulations Vice president I'd like to nominate Donna to be vice president Okay So you're accepting okay, all right any other nominations Okay, all in favor, please say aye opposed Okay, great. Thank you and congratulations excellence Okay, so To get us up to speed With open meeting law we have Garrett Baxter. Thank you from Vermont League of Cities and Towns. Welcome Okay, I'm gonna Can everyone hear me, okay All right. Well, good evening everyone. My name is Garrett Baxter I'm senior staff attorney for the Vermont League of Cities and Towns municipal assistant center If you're not familiar with the league we're an independent nonprofit corporation We are not affiliated with the state. We are not a general clearinghouse of legal information We are a member services organization comprised of all 250 municipalities in Vermont and The department I work in which is the municipal assistant center or MAC for short is comprised of six professionals With diverse backgrounds and municipal law public management municipal research and water quality And collectively we provide the local officials such as yourselves with Education training and professional assistance that you need to carry out your statutory duties In addition to conducting daylong and on-site training such as this one on various topics of municipal law Governments governance we primarily Fulfill this role by answering your questions over the phone or via email Monday through Friday eight eight thirty to four o'clock The contact information should be on the inside jacket of your packets, which everyone should have in front of you And we can answer any questions regarding your roles and responsibilities as municipal officials So and because the other two attorneys and myself have an attorney-client relationship With our municipal members we cannot give assistance or advice to those whose interests may not align with our clients And as such we do not answer questions from the general public Fortunately, there are other entities in the state that provide assistance and information to members of the public about municipal issues The Secretary of State's office just created an office a couple of years ago a director of municipal assistance Who can be reached at 802-828-1027? and I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not you might have seen the Secretary of State's Op Ed in Vermont Digger But this week is Sunshine Week and if you're not familiar It's a national celebration of access to public information and government transparency So this is a great time to go over understanding the open meeting law For those reasons this presentation is going to be for general education purposes only and Does not ensure to be construed as constituting legal advice or creating client attorney-client relationship with anyone So with those pleasantries Dispense with I'm here to talk to you again about Vermont's open meeting law And in your packets, you'll have a copy of the presentation on the right-hand side And on the left-hand side, I put some material that is available on our website at vlct.org The first one is a quick guide to Vermont's open meeting law It's intended to be just a reference sheet that you can have at a meeting to see if you're complying with the law The next has been great to give to our committees very very Oh, thank you appreciate it Our next one is the open meeting law FAQs, which this presentation pretty much tracks so We try to anticipate questions that particularly new members would have about the open meeting law And it's a deeper dive into the subject. We also have the same materials for the public records law as well available on our website We have model rules a procedure for municipal boards committees and commissions We also have model response forms if there is a meeting law complaint Wage against city council or any other public body of the municipality And I'll just jump in here quickly and say that league guy is on page 72 of the handbook That's great For months open meeting law requires that all public bodies have agendas so we're going to do the same And here's our agenda for the evening These are all the questions that we're going to hopefully answer tonight for you and discuss in the hopes that you'll Have a better understanding of what the open meeting law is and how it works So before we start I just wanted to let you know that you can access the open meeting law at the legislature dot Vermont Dot gov slash statutes and where you want to look online is in title one Chapter five sub chapter two law can also be found in Your green books in title one section 310 through 314. So really we're only talking about four sections here But they're very important sections So the first question we're going to ask is Just start off simply what is the open meeting law and broadly speaking It controls and regulates meetings of public bodies It does this by establishing certain minimum standards for meetings including keeping meetings open and accessible To the public as a means of ensuring government accountability And that brings up why we have the open meeting law in the first place The open meeting law clearly emphasizes the openness and inaccessibility to government and the law is rooted in chapter one article six of the wrong Constitution which states that all power being originally inherent in and consequently derived from the people Therefore all officers of government whether legislative or executive are their trustees and servants and that all times in a legal way Accountable to them So what that saying is the goal of account the goal of the law is accountability in the tool that we use to achieve accountability is transparency When government decisions and the processes used to reach them a transparent that enables the people to hold their public officers accountable So the law then is meant to empower the public to play an effective role Not only as an active participant in government, but as a check on it as well So the Vermont Supreme Court has answered the question of why we have the open meeting law This way it has said that the purpose of the open meeting law is to give public exposure to government decision making So we have the open meeting law short to hold you the government accountable for the decisions you make in the actions that you take In order to ensure that the open meeting law is used for the purpose for which it's intended the Vermont Supreme Court has said that It's entitled to a liberal construction in support of the goal of open access to public meetings for members of the public Exemptions to these laws must be strictly construed What this means is that when there's any question as to whether the open meeting law applies or not or whether its Requirements have to be adhered to the courts will always err on the side of transparency and access to public meetings So to that point our office tends to give the most conservative legal advice When it when it comes to this or other laws because it's our job as attorneys at BLCT Not only to give you the advice advice that will help you win in court But hopefully give you the advice that will help keep you out of court in the first place So keep that in mind that our advice as we go through this and questions will come up and you're gonna ask Why can't we do this? We're gonna give the cautious conservative approach Now that we know what the law is and why we have it next question is who does it apply to and it applies to every public body in the municipality What's a public body and encompasses all boards councils commissions committees of a political subdivision of a state Which is a reference to municipalities and includes all cities towns fire districts and other governmental units I may use the words public body here and board interchangeably as we go along, but they mean the same thing So the law covers two groups of public bodies the first consists of any Statutory public body in other words those that are explicitly mentioned in the green books such as these listed here and then we also have The second group of public bodies which includes any of those created by any one of those statutory Public bodies mentioned in the law so if the city council for instance creates a committee to assist it with Whatever objective it's trying to carry out that committee that it creates will be a public body And we'll have to adhere to the requirements of the open meeting law same with the Cemetery Commission or The board of civil authority the development review board any other statutory body Yes a question on that last one Public body committee and subcommittee can can you describe a little bit what constitutes a subcommittee? Yep, and here. We're just referencing a public body that's been created by another public body That has been created by a statutory public body So if the city council creates a committee that committee creates a subcommittee that the board also is required to adhere to the And What degree of formality does the subcommittee need to be created with so for example say a committee says okay Ashley Jack and Lauren we need this specific thing done before our next meeting. Can you three? Go do that before the next meeting. Is that a subcommittee? What I would do is make it explicit in your minutes whether or not a subcommittee is being created or not Oftentimes how this happens is that people will come forward make a proposal a board may respond by saying well It'd be great if you could Find that information out and get back to us So you want to differentiate in your minutes whether or not you're creating a committee or Whether you're just asking for assistance from maybe a concerned group group of concerned citizens So I think the more explicit in your minutes the less confusion There will be as to whether you're creating a public body or not and especially in a larger municipality like Montpelier When that happens it can be easy to lose track of just how many public bodies you have Yes Likewise along with what Glenn was asking does it matter the number whether it's under a quorum or not? No, so for there is a law that I'll get into in a second that talks about When joint authority is provided to three or more So typically boards that are created are three members So if you're going to create a committee or Subcommittee you'd want to have at least three members for that board and in that what you would want to do is you can do it by motion or resolution And include for the creation of that public body their charge what it is What's why are we creating you what we want to you to accomplish? And probably also give them a material regarding the opening law to let them know that they're going to have to comply with it So I'm thinking of committees themselves who often have working groups and two or three people may say We'll work together and come up with this spreadsheet for everyone And so it's not a specific committee, but they're going to work and the language in the minute says they're going to work On this issue. Yeah, and that's and that's fine So long as and I see where you're going with your question now so long as they don't constitute a quorum of the board Okay, so with the city council you have a board of seven. You don't want to create a subcommittee of four For that purpose if what you're doing. I'm sorry is not creating a subcommittee, but just having members work gets work together to bring something to the board at a later meeting because We'll get into forums in a second. Okay. Thank you So When does the open meeting law apply? The open meeting applies whenever a public body is holding a meeting and what is a meeting a meeting is a gathering of a quorum of The members of the public body for the purpose of discussing the business of the public body or for the purpose of taking action So there are two conditions both of which must be met in order to constitute a meeting and to trigger the requirements of the open Meeting law first there has to be a quorum of the public body present and Second that quorum of the public body has to be gathered to discuss the business of the public body or to take action So what exactly constitutes business of the public body until this last legislative session? We didn't know there wasn't a definition in the law and with the passage of Act 1 66 We finally got some clarification so it now means The public bodies governmental functions including any matter over which the public body has supervision Control jurisdiction advisory power How do you know what that is? Well for statutory public bodies you're going to mostly find that again in the green books It's going to spell out in statute what your responsibilities are as a public body and for appointed bodies You want to look in the minutes of the resolution? From the board that created you in the resolution as I spoke earlier to there being a charge for what that Subcommittee is going to what their objective is going to be That would be the business of that public body But discussing the business of the public body on its own doesn't trigger trigger the open meeting law There can be no meeting without a quorum. So what is a quorum? The word isn't defined in the law So when that happens we try to figure out just like a court does and here the supreme Vermont Supreme Court tells us that words that aren't defined are given their plain and ordinary meaning which can be done by looking to the Dictionary so the dictionary defines a quorum as the number of members of a group Required to be present to transact business legally usually a majority So in our context a quorum is both the minimal number of members You're going to need to hold the meeting and also the minimum number of members you're going to need to take any action It's also the threshold at which the open meeting law is going to be triggered So unless the law says otherwise and for some boards it does This number is going to be a simple majority 50% plus one of the total membership of the body So any action taken by less than a quorum will not be valid Now Excuse me this definition comports with the definition found in Montpellier's municipal governance charter Which says that a quorum consisting of a majority or four council members is necessary to conduct any business So what does this all mean? For a seven-member board it means that at least four members which constitutes a majority will be needed to hold the meeting and this is Frequently referred to as a bear quorum Because the same number at least four will have to agree to take any action as a board and That's because there's a law that states when joint authorities given to three or more the concurrence of a majority of such number Shall be sufficient and shall be required in this exercise now The standard that a majority of the total membership of the board has to agree to take any action will apply Regardless of whether there are board members that abstain whether they recuse themselves or whether there are any Vacancies on the board and that's because what's controlling here with respect to determining what your quorum size is is Not the number of members who actually show up, but rather the number of seats at your table So at your table for the city council, it's a seven-member city council It's always going to be four if there were seven vacancies on the city council Quorum Mount would always be four Is that is that also true? Are you going to talk later about committees? This applies to committees as well. This applies to all public bodies the standard. So recently being at one of those committees Mm-hmm, and there's actually more vacancies. There's vacancies So there are seats, but they're not people filling it and what's the total membership of the board? It was 11 It was 11 and how many? Occupied seats does it have now nine actually eight Okay, so you have 50% plus one of the eight or the 11 well of the 11 So that's what I'm saying you always want to count the seats and you have 11 seats at that table Okay, unless the board that creates it alters the membership so if you do run into a situation where It's getting difficult to fill Seats on a particular board the board that created it could always alter the membership of that board Depending on what it is it would have to the city council depending on what the city council that created it So they would have to amend it So if you call from a couple slides back a meeting is defined under the law as a gathering a quorum of the members of a Public body for the purpose of discussing the business of the public body or for the purpose of taking action But this gathering doesn't have to be a physical one The open meeting law explicitly permits members of the public body to meet without actually being physically present So it provides as long as the requirements of the law are met One or more members of a public body may attend a regular special emergency meeting by electronic or other means without being physically Present at a designated location and can fully participate by discussing the business of the body and voting to take action So the law allows the member of a public body and members to attend meetings by electronic means So long as certain conditions are met and those conditions are that Someone participating remotely has to identify him or herself When the meeting is convened and must be able to hear the conduct of the meeting and must be able to be heard By the members at the meeting and additionally all votes that are not unanimous have to be conducted by roll call You can even have a quorum or more of a public body participate electronically in a meeting So say for example All of you happen to be in Florida for Red Sox spring training this this spring You could all do that still have a meeting participate electronically So for that to happen the same three conditions that we just went over have to be met But in addition the agenda for the meeting has to designate at least one physical Location where a member of the public can attend and participate in the meeting Which makes sense because if you're all not going to be here public is needs a place to come and listen to you And at least one member of the public body a member of the staff or designee of the public body has to be present At that location that way they can facilitate the meeting take care of any technical issues that may arise And just to check on that I imagine the physical location would have to be somewhere within the city limits We couldn't say that the meeting was at spring training in Florida The law doesn't actually state, but that's how I would read it. Yes because again the what What we're trying to and I'll come back to this point several times are in the presentation But we're trying to facilitate public access to government decision making so Now it doesn't necessarily have to be the same location. You can change the location in town But then that would be a special meeting and we'll get into that in a minute Now I don't know about you, but I learned best from examples. So I put a couple together Some possible scenarios that you yourselves may find yourselves in to illustrate what we just went over So first deals with a seven-member board and three members who are physically present at the meeting in a fourth member Who's attending by conference call and the question is whether or not this is a meeting Well, we'll just say for This scenario that they're discussing the business of the public body. It's a great question Yes, the answer is yes We have one both a quorum of the members of public body four gathered and two They're presumably there to discuss the board business or to take action and because we only have one member participating electronically by conference call all that's required is that that member identify him or herself at the beginning of the meeting and That he or she can hear the conduct of the meeting and be heard throughout Now we're going to complicate things a little more Here we have a seven-member board with the same three members physically present in the same meeting room But instead of the fourth member participating by conference call He or she sends an email or text message to one of the members in attendance Expressing his or her position about the meeting and how they want to vote can they participate that way? Great well So the law governing electronic Participation requires and we'll get into that in a second not only that a member has to identify him or herself But also that they have to hear and be heard throughout the meeting which isn't possible Obviously if they're participating by email or text message Here's the third one. I want to have fun with this one No, it is not But and just as background. Yes, the open meeting law does require Compliance with Vermont's public accommodations act So does that mean if I send an email saying and I can't hear? From that point on my emails will be recognized as an active participation No So unless it's an accommodation for a disability and that gets into kind of a different specific analysis You still need to to hear and to be heard if you're participating electronically My take would be is if we got an email from you saying I can't hear we would just try to fix Technical issues that I could hear Right exactly so you would lose the quorum There's a possibility that when you have say a bear quorum of four and three physically president one attending say by teleconference There you have a technical difficulty Okay, you could lose the quorum At which case you want to resolve that technical issue until you come back and then restart discussion of municipal business So it has to be a pre-existing condition already accommodated for When you're talking about a to allow an email or text would have to be already set up But that was need well there You can notify someone that you're having technical difficulties because you have no other way to communicate with them So that would be permissible So that's that's fine. I think you talk about it someone has a legitimate hearing disability That's what I was saying So if I had a legitimate hearing disability, I'd have to Establish that ahead of time. We would yeah And right and then we have to address what a reasonable accommodation would be But but I don't think just emailing would be sufficient I think that there have to be some way through the leave relay service or something so that the person who can't hear Would be able to see text, you know see all the comments of all the members converted to text and Be able to do the same thing in response so that The absent person Somehow gets everything that everyone said and that's actually addressed and the ADA has a guide for small towns that I would address To your attention also, they do have if such an issue does come up They do have a specialist Who assists callers with compliance with the ADA as well So We're gonna have fun with this last one We have the same seven member board three members this time who are walking together on the street talking about the condition of the sidewalk One of the three calls a fourth member to fill him or her in on the discussion The fourth member who's called put on speakerphone doesn't talk just listens Is this a meeting? Well you added a fact Change the fact my answer to to sit scenario three was Was no but now that we know that the person's on speakerphone the answer. Yes. Great. That's that's the answer And again, that's because we have a gathering or a quorum of the members discussing the business of the public body um And the open meeting law doesn't demand active participation. So just because a member is silent and isn't Not actively participating in the discussion. He or she can still be counted toward the quorum But if that same scenario happened And when someone called another member didn't put them on speaker and just said Well, joe says such and such We're gonna get into that. Okay. Yep. So What if this fourth member wasn't on speakerphone? Would it still be a meeting? No So that brings us back to our back to our last example with the text message or email the law says a member can only participate electronically if the member can hear what's going on and be heard in turn So if they can't participate is there still a meeting? And if there's no meeting can there be a violation of the open meeting law? right, that's I'm gonna give you the lawyer response. Maybe I That's where I spent all that money at law school for So these are the questions our first impression meaning they haven't been definitively answered by the bremont supreme court There's still many gray areas to the open meeting law and this is one of them Our advice which I told you earlier was admittedly conservative is to stay away from that type of situation altogether Why because the more you tread in those gray areas the more you expose yourselves in the city to liability So in some states this wouldn't be a question for example in indiana, there's no majority of if there's no majority of a Public body gathered together physically in one location Then it isn't considered a gathering and wouldn't constitute a meeting for the purposes of the open meeting law In bremont however members can meet without being physically present But they have to do so in the manner that's prescribed by law So when questions like these come up We always go back to the intent behind the law Which is to ensure that conversations and decisions by public bodies are made in public In our opinion any communications not contemplated by the law that would permit public bodies to accomplish What they otherwise couldn't unless unless in the context of a duly warned open meeting Violate the spirit if also not the letter of the law So the bremont supreme court has said that the open meeting law protects not only a public's right to know But also their right to be present to be heard and to participate None of which they'd be able to do in that scenario So remember the law is entitled to a liberal Construction interpretation and support of the goal of open access to public meetings for members of the public So whenever you're faced with this type of situation ask yourself whether what you're doing will ensure that your discussions and decisions Will be made public if you're going to have a discussion about city business and it involves a quorum make sure that it's done at a meeting It's might be coming up there and I think it's the answer to it. Yeah Councillor Bates posts on facebook I want to build a huge water slide, you know into the winoski river. It's gonna be great 100 feet I chime in. Yeah. Now. That's a great idea. Glenn says area of my bathing suit, right? Four of us chime in on facebook there. Is that an open meeting? So You have how many members participating so four of us Four of us. Okay. Again, that's a situation. We would stay away from as well Okay, so the open meeting law doesn't impact the use of social media by individual members Um, you are all citizens of the united states. You're entitled to exercise your first amendment rights Certainly be able to communicate with your constituents is a fundamental components of a democratic society And so I don't want to take that away from you websites or blogs that are not interactive present the least problems interactive sites such as front porch form or facebook Those that can be used to solicit a response from other members of the public body, however can present problems As participate participation of a quorum again can constitute a meeting under the open meeting law and A meeting again is not limited to those situations where you're physically gathered in one location So it can be violated if in our opinion a quorum of members of the body is discussing business using email Or social media applications such as facebook or front porch forum So again, our recommendation is that it's generally best to avoid discussions of town business and social media Again fairly conservative view and of course has unfortunate consequences Since you won't be as accessible as you would like But again, it's our job to give you the advice that will help keep you out of a lawsuit I guess I'm I hear what you're saying But i'm curious why that's why social media is treated differently Than a text message or an email would be like so so let's just assume that it is like it's a social media post and it's It's whatever and but it there's no like it's just a thread that kind of goes on over a course of 36 hours What is the difference between? A text message like if I text during a meeting because I you know because I can't be at the meeting But i'm watching at home and you know ashley doesn't like Something And we would say that there's not a difference if you're involving a quorum of the members of the public body So that um four of you shouldn't be involved in a text message or an email discussing the business of a public body Except in certain limited circumstances that will go over Well, then i'm just parsing okay, so you're saying what what your response is is if I text for Or three other people that's a problem But but that so are you saying that the that so is it the affirmative action step? Or is it just simply the sheer number of people that that the question turns on it's the the two requirements Uh behind the open meeting law, which is again the quorum. So yes, it is the numbers And then it is what is your what it is that you're discussing if you're discussing the business of the public body Then when you have a quorum of the board discussing the business of the public body that has to take place in the context of a meeting Okay, now the only way that the law contemplates for you to participate electronically Is in a manner that you can be heard and the Proceedings can be heard by you and you can't accomplish that through either email or text So how I guess why like what's the difference between that and social media? I'm not trying to be dense I'm just genuinely trying to and it's not we would say that this wouldn't be allowed either Okay, so you could have a situation where a member posts on social media Um regarding the municipal charter and uh jack responds to that um and then uh glenn and connor Um responds to that as well now you have a quorum of members of the public body discussing Municipal business and it's not within the context of a public meeting Okay, so it hasn't been noticed It has no agenda people Have an uh may have an opportunity to participate but that's not an opportunity that's open to everyone Not everyone has access to facebook front porch forum is even more limited because it's limited to those Who live there not to it's not open to the general public. They're not minutes taken. Okay, um, so We would recommend refraining from using social media or email to discuss the business of your public body with other board members entirely Even if you're having an email correspondence With less than a quorum your membership Then that member could engage another member in the same conversation And those serial one-to-one communications, which again our court hasn't addressed Those postings on social media on front porch forum those could in the aggregate involve a quorum of the board's membership and constituted meeting under the law So while one posting um Doesn't implicate the open meeting on front porch forum any subsequent postings could if they trigger that quorum requirement So just to kind of come to an easy rule of thumb for Least our group if if any individual member wants to post about their feelings about a particular issue Best practice would be the rest of them and I would clue myself would not comment On that person's post correct And let it let it play out how it's going to play out. Exactly. Um, and one of one of the difficulties is is that The timing of a member's participation likely is not a factor. Again, that's an issue that the brahman supreme court hasn't addressed So in other states you have what's called the Simultaneity standard, uh, which means that There's only a meeting if everyone can discuss municipal business Contemporaneously with one another. Okay We don't have that and if they don't if they're not Then it's not a meeting and it's not a violation of their open meeting law So you could have a text message sent to one that's sent to another string of emails or communications They wouldn't violate their open meeting law. We don't have such a Explicit standard in our state. So we don't know for certain But we do know the intent behind the open meeting law Which is to make sure that discuss discussion of municipal business takes place at an open meeting So taking that intent and viewing those actions in light of the purpose behind the law We recommend not engaging in that condom So we'll get into that a little more as well. Yeah And certainly this is a lot that i'm throwing at you. Um, and Feel free again to email a call if you have any questions beyond tonight. This won't be your only opportunity Now just coming back to this, um example for a minute This conversation wouldn't be a violation of the open meeting law If the members were for example conducting a site visit for the purpose of assessing damage to sidewalks As that is an statutory exemption under the open meeting law So it's not considered Within the realm of the requirements So bill did we post our site visits? I can't I can't remember And you can and that's something I want to state As well as that you can always go beyond The minimum that the law requires which is always a best practice So we know when the open meeting law applies Who would actually um, what does it actually require you to do? Open meeting law has five primary requirements. Your meetings must be publicly noticed You have to produce an agenda that has to be posted made available before your meetings They have to be open to the public You have to provide an opportunity for public comment and minutes must be taken and posted Now one of the key features of the open meeting law Is that the business of the public body has to be conducted with few distinct exceptions in the public The purpose behind the law's public notice requirement is to inform the general public Of when and where your meetings will take place so that they can decide whether or not they want to attend Otherwise people won't have the opportunity to hear what you have to say and comment on issues that affect their community So in terms of scheduling there were three meetings regular special and emergency and each has their own requirements your regular meetings Those are just that these are your regularly scheduled meetings which occur at some time date in place at regular interviews intervals Special meetings are not special because any of the business you're going to Conduct or discuss but because they're held at some date time or place other than your regularly scheduled meetings And your emergency meetings are those that are held only when necessary To respond to some unforeseen Occurrence or condition requiring your immediate attention So regular meetings don't have to be individually noticed notice the date time and place for these meetings is typically set by resolution At your your first meeting following town meeting your organizational meeting Um, it can also be set by charter ordinance of bylaw And this meeting schedule must also be available to any person upon request and we would recommend posting it some prominent location in the city If not more locations Your special meetings the time place and purpose of them has to be publicly announced At least 24 hours prior to the meeting by posting notices in or near the clerks office and at least two other designated locations Giving oral or written notice to members of the public body unless previously waived So sometimes at a board's organizational meeting one of the items on the agenda will be for members to opt out of receiving that notification Providing notice to any person who had requested written notification of your special meetings And written request of special meetings will only apply in the calendar year in which they're requested Unless they're requested in december in which case still apply to that month and the following year following calendar year And also notifying any press uh any editor publisher news director of a newspaper radio station that serves your area Emergency meetings can be held without public announcement without posting notices and without 24 notice to members Provided that some notice is given prior to the meeting um as soon as possible So situation i had with a town was that they had lost their road foreman The night of a blizzard And they needed to plow the roads the next day and they had no one Can we hold an emergency meeting? Well, it's an unforeseen occurrence Certainly this person just up and quit and it requires their immediate attention So I said yeah, I think that meets the standard of emergency meeting. They said what notice should we provide? Fortunately, the it was snowing at that time Fortunately, the person lived relatively close to the the town hall Said just write emergency meeting of the select board the date the time Slept just tape it on the door Law says some notice has to be given before the meeting that was certainly some notice so Emergency meetings are unlike regular and special meetings in that they're topical So by law they can only again be held when necessary to respond to an unforeseen occurrence or condition requiring immediate attention The standard here should be if it can wait 24 hours then call a special meeting instead okay It's important to quickly note that there are different notice requirements for different types of meetings and hearings So all hearings are meetings, but not all meetings are hearings That that's because when you're holding a hearing you have a quorum of members of your public body Gathered to discuss the business of the public body say for drb their hearing applications That's the business of the drb for development review And so that meets the definition of a meeting um and Because they're more specific. These are the notice requirements that are going to Oh, sorry. Thank you. Went too far These are the notice requirements that are going to control So for a development review board hearing for conditional use review variances za appeals There's a date place and purpose of the hearing has to be provided at least 15 days prior by publication and newspaper Posting in three or more places written notification to the applicant and to all adjoining property owners so in this example The drb wouldn't also have to notice a regular special meeting unless it was conducting some non-hearing business So that's what I mean. The more specific notice requirement is going to confirm Now in addition to publicly noticing your meetings the open meeting law requires that you also have an agenda Which is great to see that you have the word agenda isn't defined in the law So again, we did just what we did with the word quorum We looked to the dictionary for guidance because the law does not say what an agenda is supposed to include And the dictionary says that an agenda is a list or outline of things to be done Subjects to be discussed or business to be transacted It has to be posted at least 48 hours prior to a regular meeting 24 hours prior to a special meeting Internet of the city office and at least two other designated public places in the city To a website if one exists that it maintains or designates as the official website And it has to be made available to anyone upon request There's no agenda required for an emergency meeting which makes sense As you typically don't know you're going to have an emergency meeting until the last minute Even if the law didn't require you to have an agenda which again it does Having one is just a basic courtesy not only to your fellow board members But also to members of the public so that they can adequately prepare and decide whether or not They should take time out of their lives to attend the meeting In addition to informing the public and your fellow board members What exactly it is you're going to be discussing and what business you're going to be transacting Agendas serve as a helpful roadmap by providing direction to your meetings Now the law not only explicitly requires that the public bodies compose and post an agenda But it also limits how they may be altered any additions or deletions to an agenda have to be made as the first order business of your meeting Which is why we would recommend having that as the first item on your agenda after you convene Other adjustments such as postponing an agenda item or rearranging the order can be made at any time during the meeting We would recommend using the same standard for adding business to your agenda that we would recommend for holding an emergency meeting Which is to ask yourself Is this something that is an unforeseen occurrence or condition that requires our immediate attention If the answer is no and it can win until the next regular special meeting then add it to that meetings agenda instead And why this standard Because the law doesn't give you carp launch authority to make Any and every addition to the agenda as long as it was done as the first order of business If this was the case then a public body could just have a blank agenda And add whatever it wanted to at the beginning of the meeting and the law would have No meaning at all So remember the legislature's intent behind this law is to ensure that your meetings are open and transparent to the public To that end you have to give them some adequate notice to decide Whether or not to attend your meetings and to express your opinions on matters that you consider Before you go and can I ask you a question? Sure, uh, so for Organizations that are public bodies that are inter-municipal or super municipal Do we have to post agendas and mourn them? So i'm thinking of like uh, like uh, authority or Other things that the city might be a member of you know, I think of Student fiber is easy fiber. Yeah, see me fiber or even like the regional planning regional planning that kind of that kind of thing Do all the municipalities have to post the agendas for they meet the definition of municipality? Yes I can't speak to each of those organizations because they're not actual members of the league so We only can advise our membership organization So advise you to the secretary of state's office, but if they meet the definition of a municipality Then yes, I think of too like the cemetery. I mean the cemetery counts as its own municipality. So they would have to The cemetery is a private organization or that's the cemetery commission We can ask the cemetery commission is a public body and they would have to post an agenda Yes for their meetings Oh, so I was just asking so I was asking about the requirements for noticing meetings In bodies that are uh, that the city might be a member of or organizations that are strictly just Cities like for example the cemetery. So like how does it apply across For for other bodies that are that are not strictly cities or towns See central public safety authority regional planning commission. That's a it's a charter quasi Yeah, they all do you follow the open meeting on central Okay, so it's all the waste districts. Yeah Yeah, so they do have to but they don't have to necessarily post in all their member towns Oh, correct. Yes, they don't have to I do not believe so But I believe that some of those also has specific provisions that would override the laws of the general applicability to all municipalities Exactly. Yep. And again, that's general rule of thumb more specific law controls over the more general So of course the law wouldn't as the name suggests all meetings of the public body Are open to the public unless specifically exempted that means of course that the public can't be excluded from your meetings Unless the law explicitly explicitly allows And again, the law clearly emphasizes the values openness and accessibility and I stated before Mont supreme court has warned us that when any question exists as to whether the law applies or not or whether your meeting is open Or not they're going to err on the side of transparency and access Now the vermont supreme court has also said that the open meeting law protects not only the public's right to know As I mentioned before but also the right to be present heard and participate and that brings us the public comment To these ends the law establishes a public right to comment at your meetings But that right is not absolute. It is not without its limits So first the public is only entitled To a reasonable opportunity to express its opinion and that reasonable opportunity can be limited in scope to matters Considered by the public body during the meeting and only so long as order is maintained So why legally you could potentially limit public comment to only those items listed on your agenda It's not in my opinion very political viable one As it's not responsive to the needs and concerns of your community As it otherwise could prevent them from raising issues of importance to them Which is why it's great that at the beginning of your meeting you had an open comment provision So as a best practice We recommend that in addition to allowing public comment on each agenda item after it's discussed But before it takes action because that will help You make more informed decisions and also impress upon the public that their comments will actually be given consideration That you also provide a more open-ended opportunity for public comment that falls under the heading of other business Either towards the beginning or end of your meeting Now the open meeting law also recognizes the importance of order by limiting public comment to the imposition of reasonable rules This represents a compromise between the need for public comment And the need for you to do the work of your public body in the time allowed So your meetings after all are meetings in the public. They're not meetings for the public Okay What's the difference your meetings are what are called limited public forms and that their space is created for a very specific purpose For you to discuss and do the work of your board and while in this space You don't have to allow members of the public to engage in every type of speech whenever they want Now that doesn't mean that you can discriminate against anyone based on what they have to say But it does mean that your board may impose restrictions in light of the purpose served by your meetings So long again as they're reasonable content neutral So you don't limit what someone is saying based on because of the message they're conveying And they're applied equally to everyone So rules of procedure in this picture. No way represents the uh fine citizens of montpellier Rules of procedure can be used to help you strike a balance between encouraging public comment and allowing for the efficient Meeting for example You connect rules to preserve civility in the core needed to conduct to your business Such as requiring members of the public to raise their hands in order to be recognized by the chair before speaking We had a municipality years ago That was having a horrible time conducting its select board meetings and one of the rules we recommended to them imposing Was having people just raise their hands to be recognized Otherwise everyone was just shouting at the chair Directing all comments to the chair. You see this when you watch cscan and you see The house of representatives comments aren't directed to individual members. They're all addressed to the chair Not to any individual member or of the public body or of the public refrain from personal attacks Establishing a rule that if someone has already spoken That others have to first be given an opportunity before they can speak again So all of those that are included in our moral rules are procedure which i've included in your packet These rules are different when it comes to quasi judicial Hearings these are instances when you're acting like a court and as city council members that will happen The requirement that all meetings of a public body have to be open at all times not extend to those these instances So unlike your other meetings the public does not have the right to comment during the course of these proceedings All the public has the right to do is attend and to listen Okay, so a hearing of the development review board of the board of civil authority if you were to hear a vicious dog hearing case Okay, these are all quasi judicial hearings and there is no right to public comments Get into that a little more when we hit deliberations And the last requirement of the open meeting law is that you make a record or minutes of your meetings They have to be kept by the cleric or secretary of the public body, which doesn't have to but could be the city clerk They have to give a true indication of the meeting what transpired and include at a minimum all topics that arise All members of the public body present All other active participants all motions proposals resolutions made in their result and results of any votes with a record of individual votes If roll call is taken Now in most instances what is minimally required listed here Will be sufficient to give a true indication of the business of the meeting However, in other instances information beyond what is minimally required may be needed to supplement the record To show what transpired It's always a good idea to provide more detail one than just a discussion on an important or controversial issue So that you the public and if need be your attorney will have an accurate historical detailed record of what happens Your minutes have to be made available for public inspection and copying by any person upon request After five calendar days from the date of the meeting And in addition they must be posted to a website if one exists that you maintain as the official website of the body Within that same time frame So with the exception of draft minutes that have been replaced and updated Posted minutes have to stay on your website for at least one year from the date of the meeting from which they were taken Again, you can leave them on longer if you'd like Any questions there? We're going to have the final portion here. It's going to be exemptions Which i'm sure there's a lot of questions on so any questions before we get into that Yeah, I think before we get to exemptions The big question of my mind is or else what right like does this law have any teeth to it? Is it a school board meeting like a few weeks ago? Somebody stood up for public comment They said, ah, should we let her speak and they voted it down, right? Yeah So what's the remedy? I don't think the secretary of state has any enforcement powers, right other fines other There there is an enforcement provision and it's the last section of law. It's one bsa 314 And there if so if there is a knowing an intentional violation of the law Then you can be subject to a misdemeanor And a five hundred dollar fine. Okay. Uh, there can also be a potential civil action brought against the city council Um, and it could be that whatever actions you took at your meeting are determined not to be binding. Okay So there is criminal liability exposure for individual members And I have not heard of Anyone having a uh criminal action brought against them for this reason Know that the standard here is knowingly the person knew what they were doing was wrong Okay, and intentionally they did it anyways. So it's a relatively high bar Uh and prosecution would have to provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt Okay, so that's for your kind of individual exposure and that applies to Someone who violates the law someone who violates the law on behalf of someone else or at the behest of someone at the direction of the body Or participates in a wrongful exclusion of someone from the meeting Um, a complaint would have to be brought Against the city for violating the open meeting law one year after the meeting at which the alleged violation took place um, and someone would have to Notify the board in writing of the specific violation and request a specific cure There is then a timeframe For responding, uh, which would have included in your packet. I won't get into right now But it's basically that the board can either acknowledge the violation and take specific steps to cure it Within I believe it's a 14 day timeframe After they address the allegation Or they can state that no violation actually occurred At that point what can happen is that anyone who is agreed by the act of the board or the non-action of the board Can bring an action in the superior court or the attorney attorney general's office can do so as well Okay, and then we get to a client where The city would be defending itself in accord action So those are kind of the the violations and enforcement mechanism You uh, you said something about minutes and I've been involved in another public body where this question came up and uh And the issue is although there's this requirement to post the minutes within five days of the meeting They're out the minutes until they've been approved by the body Well, there is no requirement in the open meeting law that minutes of a public body actually be approved Okay, um, now it's certainly a best practice Um, because everyone can agree on what the record was Um, but there is no explicit requirement What most boards do in order to meet that five day requirement Is that bill and it's a five calendar day requirement I think there was a move at the legislature to increase it and it didn't get anywhere last session Um is to have mark your if you do approve minutes to mark The ones you're putting up within that five day time frame as draft or subject to approval Okay, and then replacing them with the approved minutes, which may be a week or so after the fact Okay, thanks We do have more questions and answers regarding minutes as well in our frequently asked questions. Okay So our last session here is on exemptions Um, so that was what the open meeting law requires of you But not everything you do as a public body is covered by the open meeting law There's going to be a times when a quorum of you can actually interact and the law has no application And a lot of these provisions were added this last legislative session with act 166 So and a lot of them are very common sense solutions as well So the passage of act 166 last session They added the legislature added to the list of activities that are excluded from the definition of a meeting So if something doesn't qualify as a meeting it doesn't fall under the auspices of the open meeting law So these are the things that you can do that you don't have to comply with everything we just went over and that includes Meeting no longer includes in its definitions and occasions where a quorum of you attend social gatherings conventions Conferences training programs press conferences media events or otherwise gathers. So it's pretty broad Provided that the public body that's attending does not discuss specific business of the body that at the time You expect to be business at a later date Okay So what was this change in the law intended to cover? Well, for example, my organization conducts daylong seminars such as our select board institute And oftentimes we'll have small select boards of a three member select board two members come to the meeting And they would ask us are we supposed to warn this as a meeting? Should we warn our car ride here? And we would tell them well you are discussing business of the public body. So conservatively, maybe you should um, and Certainly on the on the car ride though. How is the public supposed to attend? They're not going to be able to unless maybe it was victory and they got a school bus so But we we didn't know so this was one of the one of the impetus for putting this law in place because we The legislature recognized that you need to work within the the context of this law And there needs to be practical realities that you can deal with so now if we have a quorum members come to our training They can discuss Business of the body so long as it's not something that they're going to take action on in the future So they could use An example in order to you know help further a question along for example Okay Yes, so I I think I know the answer but i'm going to ask it anyway. What about attending A meeting of another public body whether it's in your own city or a neighboring Town select board meeting or city council. That's going to be our next one. Yep So um And again the most cautious approach would be whenever there's a quorum of you you don't discuss the business of the public body But again, this allows you to so long as it's business that you're expected to take later on Okay, so we also have A meeting after last session no longer includes a gathering of a quorum of a public body at a duly worn meeting of another public body Which bill just brought up Provided that the attending public body doesn't take action on its business Okay, so this change came about again. It's a very common sense solution to an issue that kept coming up I would get a call from a member say of a planning commission who wanted to attend a meeting of their select board but they knew that So many other members of the planning commission were going to attend the same meeting That they decided they couldn't because they're going to trigger a quorum and they would have to warn it as a meeting So with this change in law, we avoid the complication of members of one public body having to stay away from meetings of another public body Another follow-up question on this Occasionally say the city council will ask a board to attend planning commission or somebody Just to get an update of what they're doing and Sometimes there might be a quorum of them here. Although we're really maybe have only invited the chair or the staff person But the others are there's there and they are discussing, you know, maybe how they're doing on the zoning rewrite or something like that Town plan right, um, does the planning commission have to warn that they're going to be there? Nope And that's what this law addresses. So Even though they are talking about their own even though they're talking about business because as you notice It says so long as they don't take action on any board business Okay, so they can discuss board business and this makes sense because otherwise you're having two public bodies Notice the same hearing providing an agenda for the same hearing take minutes for the same hearing It was it was just implicit. So it didn't it didn't make sense Yeah, so that was a great move from them Okay, um, again, this is another refinement to the definition of what a meeting is Um, the open meeting law also allows a quorum of you to interact without triggering the Requirements when you're scheduling a meeting organizing an agenda or distributing materials to discuss at a meeting Okay, and because this falls outside the range of the open meeting law It is not considered a meeting you can do this by whatever means you'd like you can do this as an email You can do it as a text message. You can do it over the phone. You can do it in person over the telephone however you'd like to so But you can't do any of these things and also discuss Other business of the body. Okay any documents that result say you did send an email schedule a meeting with your fellow members Those would be subject to disclosure disclosure under vermont's public records act Okay So distributing materials here. So we have scheduling a meeting organizing agenda distributing information Distributing does not mean discussion. So think of this as being akin to the physical act of handing over documents to another person It's acceptable to hand those documents over, but it's not acceptable to have a discussion about those documents as well What is acceptable here is this one-way communication once there's a response to distribution That communication turns into a discussion and that discussion as we spoke of earlier if it involves a quorum of the members could constitute a meeting so Inadvertence I'd say violations of the open meeting law especially those that arise through the use of electronic communication can be Reduced if email and text messages are principally employed to transmit information to a body's information Concerning these purposes. Okay, you're transmitting information. You're scheduling a meeting. You're organizing agenda So in other words the vermont legislature has said that these are acceptable means of communicating as a quorum Okay without triggering the requirements of the open meeting law Again email similar communication should be used for distribution Passive receipt of information not for the active exchange of ideas Discussion of substantive matters should be reserved for public proceedings As we see here the open meeting law has a very narrow allowance for communications between a quorum When those communications involve municipal business any communications not on that list should occur in the context of a meeting Okay, just striking that out so Can I Pull that last Piece into a rule of thumb that says I could Send an email to everyone on city council, but if I receive an email That's also to everyone on the rest of the city kept excuse me city council. I can't reply all I should not hit reply All right and group messages I've had that on occasion Happened with communications sent to our office because people are interested in receiving What the answer is And some will send the communication include everyone else you hit reply all then others start responding to that And all sudden you have a discussion about town business Again common sense solutions from the legislature Because before how could you schedule a meeting? It's a chicken egg situation Right, it would have to be one person saying we're having a meeting this day And everyone would show up or a quorum would show up But you couldn't have a back and forth of well, I can make it. I can't can we do another day now? You're violating the open meeting law. That's no longer a problem So the open meetings our chart is our meetings are at the call of the mayor I saw that yes, and I have that note made just in case it came up The open meeting law also doesn't apply to site inspections for purposes We've talked about this before a little assessing damage or making tax assessments or abatements Declirical work or work assignments of staff routine day-to-day administrative matters that don't require action of the public body Some refer to this last exception as the work session exemption However, there is no work session exemption to the open meeting law Our understanding of this last exemption is that it includes certain municipal activities of municipal officers such as listers and auditors such as updating the lister cards Examining the treasurer's books What wouldn't fit into this exemption are any actions taken by the board of listers or auditors that are required by law such as Lodging the grand list or making the decision of what goes into the annual report Those are matters that are required by law to be taken So if they're in here, you're required to by law to be to take them Then they wouldn't fit into that routine day-to-day administrative matters exemption Those actions have to be taken in the context of an open meeting Then of course we come to everyone's favorite exemptions Deliverative and executive sessions They also just happen to be most frequently confused We'll start with deliberative and the night on executive session The open meeting law says it doesn't extend to deliberations of any public body in connection with the quasi judicial proceeding Deliberations here means weighing examining discussing the reasons for or against the decision Or act so does this mean that you're in deliberative session whenever you have to make a decision as a public body? No, it doesn't as the law states Delivered session only applies in conjunction with quasi judicial proceedings. Those are proceedings as we talked about earlier Where you're acting like a court d rb land use hearings supportive health hearings City council hearings on laying out public highways And each of these situations is the legal rights of specific individuals And that are at stake rather than the rights of the community at large Once a hearing is closed the public body is automatically in deliberative session by operation of law And the session is exempt from all the requirements of the open meeting law So this allows you as a public body to deliberate in private without public scrutiny and pressure Just like a jury does in order to come to a well-reasoned decision And because the requirements of the open meeting law don't apply Deliberative sessions don't need to be noticed. They don't need an agenda. They don't need To allow for public comments or to be open to the public and don't require the taking of minutes Discussions can occur with as few or as many members of your board without triggering the quorum requirements of the open meeting law as well Uh, and you can deliberate by whatever means or in whatever setting you want You can also use email the written decision will speak for the board So you can send drafts back and forth to one another those drafts those email communications Will not be considered their exempt from public disclosure under vermont's public records act So in contrast to most every instance of executive session You can also vote behind closed doors without the formality of having to have a to publicly announce your vote And again, that's because the law explicitly provides that written decisions don't need to be adopted in the context of an open meeting If they're going to be a public record Finally your board doesn't have to use deliberative session if it doesn't want to It's more than free to deliberate in public Now in contrast to deliberative session executive session is a closed meeting within a public meeting That makes any sense The law permits public bodies to exclude the public from a portion of an open meeting in order to discuss certain topics specifically allowed for under the law So as with deliberative session, there's nothing in the law that requires the use of it Although it's certainly recommended in certain circumstances It's another exception to the general rule that all meetings of a public body have to be open to the public at all times Use of this exemption will be strictly construed by the courts, which means that any reasonable doubt will be resolved in favor of not using it You can't just enter executive session. There are certain conditions that have to be met first One there has to be a motion that indicates the reason for entering executive session That reason has to be one of the ones permitted in law There has to be an affirmative vote of the majority of the members present So this is a different standard than the rule of general applicability that you can only take action with the majority of the total of your membership Here, it's a majority of the members present, which is going to be a quorum Okay Um, and the result of the vote has to be recorded in the meeting minutes As stated, you can only enter for those reasons permitted by law. These are those reasons There are others, but these are ones that pertain to municipalities In these particular reasons only require one motion and a majority vote of those present Okay, so we have Negotiating securing real estate purchases or lease options the appointment or employment or evaluation of a public officer or employee Important thing to note here is that If you make a decision to a point that has to be made an open session And you have to explain your reasons For that decision What I would recommend is that you give the reasons why you're appointing someone and not why you're not appointing someone else Disciplinary or dismissal action against a public officer or employee, but that person has a right to a hearing You have a clear and eminent peril to the public safety Discussion of records that are exempt from the public records law and emergency response measures for the municipality I'm a question on the last one about You're required to to state your reasons for appointing someone. Yes You're required every time you appoint someone to explicitly state why If you're going into executive session for that purpose and then coming out Then you have to make your decision an open session and explain the reasons why Now you could decide just to appoint an open session In which case you don't have to give reasons for Yeah But this is a condition of utilizing executive session. Okay. I'm I'm imagining Playing that out. Yeah, only because Often it feels like We appoint people because there's a vacancy and it needs to be filled and I don't know that's that's a reason Yeah, okay, we might not go into executive session for that Yeah, sometimes we don't do that if there's one person for one slot Right It doesn't have to be a lot said. I mean we usually say something about why just why don't you say something right exactly some reason So the motion for entering executive session for these reasons Again is one motion has to indicate the nature of the business of the executive session and should but doesn't have to It's not required to cite the specific statutory citation for doing so So the proposed motion Should include as much detail as possible without undermining why you're actually going to executive session in the first place So for example, if you're going into executive session to conduct an employee performance appraisal You could say something to the effect of because it's time for the zoning administrator's annual performance evaluation I move that we enter executive session to discuss the evaluation of a public officer employee Pursuant to title one section three one three eight three of vermont statutes Simple enough For the following reasons for entering the following reasons for entering executive session require a finding by you that utilizing it um that Sorry utilizing them that premature general public knowledge would place the public body of person involved at a substantial disadvantage So you have to find for going into executive session for this reason That premature general public knowledge would place the public body of person involved at a substantial disadvantage This was a legislative change a couple of years ago But it was actually required of you in 1993 in the trombly case by the vermont supreme court and the legislature just Recently explicitly put it in the law so that you know to follow it So to enter executive session for any of these reasons and you can see it's for contracts labor relation agreements arbitration mediation grievances Probable civil litigation in which the public body is a party Confidential attorney client communications to enter into executive session for any of these reasons We recommend that you make two separate motions because of that requirement Um, and the reason is it's not enough to just want to go in executive session for these reasons discuss these issues You have to demonstrate a need to do so Um The cleanest way of demonstrating compliance with this requirement is to make two separate motions The first one would be to find that premature public discussion of the subject Would cause the city or some other person to suffer a substantial disadvantage So for example the case of a contract under negotiation the motion may be I move to find that premature general public knowledge of the pending contract with this company Will clearly place the city at a substantial disadvantage by say for example disclosing our negotiation strategy Okay In this hypothetical the substantial disadvantage would be the risk the city has of losing its competitive edge in negotiations By talking about specific contract terms in open session If the company here were to hear that the public body talked about the maximum price It can afford to pay then the company is not going to take anything less than that amount Now the second motion follows from the first and should cite the specific legal authority again for entering executive session So for example, I move that we enter executive session to discuss the city's contract under provision title 1 section 313 It's important that the minutes of your meeting reflect that there was a careful analysis of the needs entering the executive session Before the before the first motion is made to demonstrate compliance Now I just want to give you some final thoughts on the use of executive session It's not explicitly required by law to be listed on a meeting agenda Something is poor form to put executive session on agenda because doing so presupposes that one's going to be held Others say that the purpose of agendas provide notice of what is likely to transpire and putting it on the agenda serves that purpose We follow the second camp We think it's the best practice to listen executive session on your agenda But only when you know in advance that you're likely to raise the motion We do not recommend always putting on possible executive session as a place holder in case something comes up Listing it as a possible executive session signifies nothing more than you're going to take up the possibility of executive session It also serves as a reminder to you that you're going to have to vote before you go into executive session And also it provides a courtesy to any Anticipated attendees informing them that there may be a portion of the meeting that's going to be closed off to them for a period of time Because it's a closed portion of an open meeting Motion again has to take place in the context of duly worn meeting you therefore always have to have Being an open meeting first before you enter executive session It is not open to the public the only people that have a right to attend are members of the public body regardless of how they voted And anyone else that in their discretion they decide can enter So the law says attendance and executive session is limited to members of the public body And in their discretion it's staff Critical assistance and legal counsel and persons who are subjects of discussion or whose information is needed Finally while you're in executive session, no other Matter can be discussed no formal or binding action can be taken Except securing real estate options So to take action you have to agree to come out of executive session and take action during the course of a meeting Minutes don't have to be taken, but if they are taken they're not subject to disclosure under vermont public records act Some people say that you can't take action in public an executive session other again than for the The real estate securing real estate options, but you're going to have to come to some Agreement to agree to come out of executive session or else you're going to be in this twilight zone executive session that you can never get out of so A question. Yes You mentioned the motion Yes, as you might have done it you can have other people there besides Excuse, thank you You mentioned the motion, but and on the second slide you mentioned the people who should be it could be an executive session We tend to ask people in our motion. We invite the city manager to join the council. Is that necessary? No, that's fine to ask them because again, it's in your discretion So it's it's ultimately up to the city council who enters executive session, but you say you worded in the actual motion Usually we don't usually just say we move to go and do executive session for xx and include the manager the assistant manager So long as and that's a thing about voting so long as everyone knows what they're voting for and there's a record of it That's fine. Okay It could be if someone has an issue with that how it's stated they could stay I Potentially want to go into executive session, but I don't know that we should have the city manager invited Can we break out those motions? But it is best to have it in the motion. I guess that's my question That the the board agree. Yes, because otherwise you could say it's just quiet acquiescence But there should be some consensus of who's going to attend executive session with the public body. Yes Thank you A while ago we had an assumption that the city manager was invited And so we hadn't been staying explicitly, but it might be better to do that And you can follow you can follow, you know customary practice again It's so long as everyone on the council knows That they're going to executive session what it's for and who's being invited And my last slide here is just a link to our resource Again, everything included in your packet is available on our website includes the links to the faqs the quick guide moral rules the procedure And yeah, and if you have any questions, please feel free to call us at the number provided or email us Monday through friday And thank you for hanging in there Thanks, this has been great great material And he says he doesn't get enough calls from montpellier's mayor. So we should all call him more. Okay It's no So feel free to do the pop-in always happy to speak with you All right, any further questions? Okay. Well, thank you so much for being here and It's been very helpful Okay, uh, how are you all feeling do you want to break do you want to Okay, let's take, uh Just about a five minute break Yep, sounds good. Okay. So, uh, we are coming back from our break The next item is committee assignments. So every year we have council reps who are appointed to To various committees and boards throughout the city. So, um How shall we take this? We have attached the agenda last year's appointment set Um, so I think it's probably probably just makes sense to take this all Um, linearly and then, um, perhaps have just one motion at the end Um, you know with all the aforementioned appointments um, so Americans with disabilities committee There's actually an error in there. I'm I actually am the council representative to that committee and I'm Willing to stay on it. Okay. Great. Thank you. Anybody that's uh interested in that one Okay, we move on uh, building code appeals committee Glenn you were on it before It used to be a different Name of that committee. I believe but I recognize it Okay, and I'm told that we actually do need someone because there may be an appeal coming up Do you mean, uh, well, it looks like there was uh, glenn was on it and then there's a vacant was rosy It was rosy. So we uh, we do in fact need two people from the council on that Okay, so in glenn. Are you willing to be one of those two people again? Yep. Oh, thanks, ashley. Anybody else interested? Okay Capital complex committee, uh, no council rep, but we have had paul carnahan. Is this an appointment that we would make tonight? Or not necessarily. Oh because we probably need to Warn that and I mean, I don't know that that's been we looked into that last year and it was a certain term But we'll check it out. Okay. So we'll Assume that we're not making that appointment tonight Okay Uh, capital improvement planning committee. So the cip. So last year I was on this Donna and glenn. Donna glenn. What do you think or if anybody else? Glenn likewise, I'd like to stay on it. Um, so in the past we've also had, um, new council members On this committee. So lauren if you are interested That's fine. I'm Also interested in it, but I would step down if you Wanted to do it There's a couple others. I'm interested in. Okay. I'm happy to continue on that Um, that committee anybody else interested in that one. Okay Uh central Vermont public safety authority. So, uh, this one so donna you were on that last year I think otherwise And so tom is resigned now he was not a city counselor No, but he was our rep but he was our rep. So he was appointed rep from the council and his term expired this year So one hypothesis and I guess I'm just looking for a bit of advice here One hypothesis is that uh, another council person should take that spot another hypothesis is that it could just be a Another appointment of the council either way So I guess one question is is there any uh council member interested? I would I would I guess I I'm happy to do it But I'm a little unclear Sort of where the cvpsa Is at and we don't have to get into that right now. I'm happy to to be the second council rep But I'm available anytime you want to talk about it. I love it I have been I'll find you so Do you would you like that appointment then? I will take it. Okay. Okay Okay Okay, uh central Vermont regional planning commission. Uh, there's no council rep Again, this is one of these that should we be making this appointment tonight donna isn't on that I want to attack the actual region regional planning commission has asked for somebody from our planning commission And that's why curt is there But it doesn't mean there can't be a city council member also We get one rep Yeah, you only get one rep that has a vote Okay, so that's why it says na Na for us, right? So we've appointed kirby from the planning commission. That's what I was trying to become the planning commission and uh, so Is that an appointment that we need to make tonight? No, no, we usually don't do one Because we have one from the planning commissions. All right, great. Um, and I'm on their tack their transportation advisory group and I really really enjoy that. Okay Uh, great So we're gonna move on from the regional planning commission for the tacked on and you're interested was anyone else interested in the the tack No, okay. Thank you. Awesome. Um, central Vermont solid waste district or management I would love to open this up to someone else. No one took it last year Okay, anyone else interested in it And we have the we have the appointment We also have the number. This is the alternate, right? Yes. Yes. I would say alternate although it doesn't have to be Okay So that was lauren that was lauren all right, uh, the Community justice centers citizen advisory board So that had been me but the meeting times have not really lined up with my work schedule because they're usually between five and five thirty and I have not been able to get out of work consistently Okay, thank you connor. Anyone else interested? Okay, all right city hall art committee. I know we weren't terribly active last year Do we need it? Well, I it's a new it's a new year. Yes. I would like to change the yard out. So In the hallway, there's a lot city hall could do for itself. I was waiting for the call last year But we are waiting for you. We should make him chair. I agree. I think that's a great idea. There you go Here you go. Okay, so happy to serve Anybody else interested? He'll make our meetings thursday morning Uh don, are you still interested in that? Yes, I am. Okay. I'm happy to stick around on that committee too, but glenn you're in charge Okay glenn and jamie you're in charge. There you go. I'm jamie. Okay, uh energy advisory committee I have been that person. I'm happy to do it again unless somebody else is interested No, that's all you Unless you want learn, uh We can have two people. Can we have two people we can have two committee, right? Yeah Uh, I I don't think there's any reason not to so let's have us both be there Great super awesome All right, harry shared in scholarship. I'm at the high school. I'm happy to continue to do that unless anybody else is interested Tell me what it is just because I don't know. Uh, it was a scholarship Set up for students mob helier That Is like the as part of the will the executor Executor trustee main trustee. I think that's the that's the right word of that scholarship is Someone from the city council Does that help You helped decide who gets it. Yes. So yes, probably the person at the high school would be the best person It does help to know Some of the humans beforehand Okay, so housing task force Yeah, yeah, anybody else No, okay, great. Uh and the trust fund I think yes, but I as I recall we also adopted a new Rules of the procedure. So there may be some Some changes in in the makeup, but for now, why don't we keep me on it? Anybody else interested in that one? Okay, great. Thank you Uh, all right investment committee. Um, I am actually, uh, Only to step down from that. Um It's been very interesting very educational Um, yeah, anyone else interested? Yeah, okay Okay, uh, Montpelier alive board has been Connor Okay, anybody else? Okay All right, the Montpelier foundation. I wonder if we should take Oh, that's the We had some changes in their bylaws this year, right? So it's the mayor or their designee Still Ex officio, we have a little discussion about ex officio. Ex officio. Uh, all right. So did they oh, that's right because What's that? Did they file? Yet, I don't know So I would I would just point out that nothing has changed if they haven't filed that. Yeah fair Um, nonetheless, we still get an appointment So anyone interested in that? Oh, thank you, Glenn. Awesome. Anybody else interested? Yes. Okay Well, so if there are two people interested, um If we only get one I would defer I suspect we only get one Yeah, when are when are the meetings? Okay, I don't know. Well if if I'm happy to do it and if the meetings are at such a time that I just There's no feasible way to make it work Then I'll take it. I'll find you. You know, you let us know. Yes. Okay, and then we can revisit it Okay Uh parking task force This well this one it was sort of done. It was a task force We met and well it did with the Demand management strategy. Yep, but it was also interested in the replacement parking for all the construction And I know for myself, I seem to phone off the email on that and I have no idea where that is You haven't fallen off the email because I think that was when ken was sort of organizing, right, right? Yeah, we haven't met for ages. Well, and we were gonna there was going to be working on some of the ideas But I think there was going to be a strategy for demand management and Remember Kevin was like out for a while and yeah, there were all kinds of reasons But also we did hear that GMT was looking at the demand management on on demand management. We were excited about that And we have found, you know, one of the issues was finding a place for capital plus and we found that But we're still, you know, we've I'm trying to Got someone who said they would lease parking and now won't respond to me. So Well, so One question is like, do we still need this task force? Not as a formal group. I don't okay. Well, and we can always reform it later as demand I'm just really concerned that we haven't taken We're not further along with facing what we need during the construction season if everything we're planning happens We're going to need Some really coordinated parking options. The construction is too That's fair. I mean, I wonder if there's also some reason to follow up just on the demand management side I already reached out actually this week to the head of GMT asked them for an update This really seems like something that can be an administrative function rather than A public policy function like committee It just really needs to happen that and I mean the micro transit is Is meeting and fits into this kind of demand management and demand Transit, but it's not going to happen in time for any construction in 2019 or probably 2020 I guess my good hear different things about that Okay, so so Well, I I'm inclined to agree with you actually Donna, but we hear from some other sources that it could be this summer And so I've actually like I said, I just reached out yesterday to Mark Sousa from GMT and said, what's the story? I keep hearing these different, you know Well, why don't we keep it as a group and So just so that you know if for when there's a need for to discuss there's you know people who are involved I'm happy to stay on it Me too. Okay. Yes. I anyone else interested in That that committee Okay, so Should it be needed? We're around What you know to review any of that? Okay, social and economic justice Fires re-committee. So I had been And I think the meetings are Tuesdays Somewhere on Mondays, which I cannot Do and some are on Tuesdays. So I haven't been able to make all of the meetings I am interested Change or Yeah I'm I can show up when I can show up But I don't I don't feel as though like it's reasonable for me to represent that anyone could depend on me Religiously making it to every meeting when when that's sort of when the time that works for everybody else is I don't think there's any a harm in you know, if it's law and and you still want to show up But you can it's a public meeting. Yeah, I've showed up to a few Okay, it's interesting Okay, so we'll assume it's lauren On point there A transportation infrastructure committee I'm still interested in it I can invite other people to come and join us others I'm kind of interested in that too. I have glenn your yeah and me Uh, well, it's it is our committee. We can have more people's. Oh our own transportation. This is our own transportation committee So we could have three people When does the committee meet it meets on the first tuesday of the month except for town meeting day And there's a couple other holidays hit on the first tuesday but first tuesday of the month at six Six to seven thirty. Oh, okay, so Yeah, because the 88 committee work meets during the workday on the first tuesday, but that's fine. Okay Okay, so I heard three people for that one a Okay, did we get that so it's donna glennon Jack great uh, all right Excuse me, um The tw wood board I think according to their Bylaws I you know, I'm on the committee, but I generally can't go I've been going it's good. Uh, I'm happy to continue Hey, great anyone else? Okay, super. Thank you. Um water rate study committee. Is this still a thing? Not really. Connor, how's it going? Well, it's I think let's just take it off. Let's just take that off the list Okay, okay, so, um, is there a motion to approve the appointments as discussed so moved second Further discussion Okay, all in favor, please say aye. Aye opposed Okay, I just have one thing um One of the things that I think at least in my experience some of the newer committees have struggled with this sort of a Like a purpose, you know when when there's not already an established Directive and I'm wondering if we could just maybe try to pencil in for the next calendar year sort of when Committees there are various groups that that council members are part of could provide like either just a written update to the council or Just just in some ways so people know in advance like hey This is the month when the council wants to hear from you like what your committee's been doing or you know Just just kind of doing that like check in With with some degree of like Expectation like this is the month or this is the meeting that we'll be presenting at and you know Here's here's a written summary because you know, we only do something every two years and you know This is maybe an off year or whatever it might be just so that so that the council is kept abreast of what's Ongoing because not all of us. I mean there it's not conceivable that we all know Exactly what's happening or what's going to be asked of us later and and that might help to keep the public engaged This actually reminds me something we talked about. Yes. I asked that We're there doing our evaluation that it's really important that we have regular check-in with our community So one possibility is that I mean I mean we have all I'm sorry. Did we just vote? We did just vote. We did. We did just vote. Okay. Um, We've all just been appointed to these committees one possibilities that either during our either as a separate agenda item or during our Council reports that You know that we're hearing from you during that time as to what's happening on that committee You know what's like the two You know two sentence update as to what you what that committee has been working on and And what whatnot? Don't know. Do you have someone probably looking sour? I just found that I do that I use my council report I don't think it's very effective because everybody wants to leave It's the last thing you want to hear the last thing you seem to absorb. So It's a beginning, but I just don't think it's really effective way And particularly as Ashley was talking about it's a give and take it's Sharing but it's also hearing where the council is on certain things that our committee is talking about Well, I think you can do both You know I way back when we established having council reps and all these committees part of the goal was that The council members could keep the other council folks updated so Probably we could do that At the council reports, but also scheduled times when the committee comes in we have a more focused conversation so in the meantime as As things are happening you say well, you know, we're talking about this Especially if it's something that might be coming up in the future It's like well, you know, just so you know this committee might have something in a couple months So just you know, it's coming that is a chance for the council. We won't wait a minute. What's that about? Maybe we want that on an agenda. So I'm feeling the both there right like let's try to have updates during our council reports from the committees, but also let's have some intentional time to Have updates from committees Okay Super um further thoughts on that Okay, so we have an appointment to make this is um to the central mont solid waste management district um, I think we have one applicant Ellen and one one seat though you were the alternate, but it this is a little confusing to me because you were We also just appointed you The council as the as the okay as the alternate. Okay. Okay I mean ellen's very good if Ashley doesn't mind being the alternate the thing is you get all the mailings you can get on the list for the solid waste district Oh, loren loren. Sorry. I was like you get all the mailings and then and Probably get about two or three times you can actually go and have a vote, but you can always go Some of the discussions are really very meaningful to be there and be present So I would make the motion that we appoint ellen cheney as the rep on the Central Vermont solid waste management and loren as the alternate second Further discussion All in favor. Oh, yeah Ellen works with me and I can just tell you that ellen is very enthusiastic about this stuff She's very committed to this To this area and I think she's She's really good for this awesome Great further discussion All right, all in favor. Please say aye. All right opposed Super thank you loren And we'll pass on our thanks to ellen. So and when you let the solid waste district know make sure they get contact information for loren if you would Is your city look side up I mean do you have your city email? Yeah? Okay, we have one more appointment to make Kate mccann was the only applicant for two vacant seats on the Transportation infrastructure committee. I don't yeah, go ahead. I'd like to move to appoint kate mccann to the montpellier transportation infrastructure committee Second Further discussion All in favor. Please say aye. Aye. Opposed so there there was one vacant seat you are Pointed three council members where we had had one so you could just maybe leave the other one there's actually three vacant seats Perfect. So you just fill two of two of the three Okay So we don't actually need to oh, I'm sorry. Thank you for that clarification. That was not clear I don't think they all got reported. Okay, because we were That was the organization. I was asking garret about Okay, okay, perfect Great, uh, it's we have no other regular This is so council reports. So just so you know loren's time for counselors to share Pretty much anything really So but we'll start with donna. We'll go around this way Okay, so the infrastructure committee has just approved funding of 5200 dollars towards a covered bike rack That will go out here where the current bike rack is in front of city hall or the side of the front of city hall And the complete streets committee really has been the one taking the initiative and work with northfield university to get a design At one point nor was just going to do the labor But they're not now so we may have to make some collaborative to make this Bike rack work at 5200 dollars, but it's in the works and they'll probably you'll be hearing more about it Likewise the parks has a new member like us who got elected I'm not remembering her name right now. Is it it's cassie But she's from north wilderness adventures and has a lot of experience. So we'll really enhance Our parks commission a lot very Very good. So lots of good things happening there and within the regional planning commission tac Montpellier bridges are the top three of the four And that's due to tom mccarcel really working with me and working with the regional planning commission of give and take Because it's all the regional bridges competing for this very small amount of money So if montpellier does any lobbying That they should increase this small fund of money for bridges and roads for towns. It's really important. It hasn't changed for Dozens of years among the highest priorities on the lead I mean if you can imagine they can't budget the regional planning commission is dealing with 175 thousand dollars That's it. That's it. All 23 towns are fighting over this and they do it very well very politely But it's just not enough funds So great. Thank you All right, thank you for your confidence and appointing me to the investment committee As you remember back in january, we made a motion To engage esg experts to look at divesting From different groups that would violate labor rights human rights or good citizenship Uh, we're also run afoul of environmental justice So I do have a group of experts who would be willing to come in and talk to us So I would certainly bring Todd in the mix, but if anybody else wants to join us, that'd be great You can set that up in the next couple weeks here Um, also some things coming down the pike. Um, I have a socially responsible Um contractor ordinance. I started looking at a bit Uh, so we'd bring that up at a future meeting. Uh, just to run some of the ideas by uh And the scooter survey is back working with uh, soon now to develop a robust public input process Going forward to talk about the future of scooters As you may know burlington Is looking at this they had a whole process that I think we can borrow from a bit But it looks like they're going with a company called gotcha, which also does electric bikes And I think golf carts so just a few things in the pipeline there. Thanks very much um Gonna report from my committee the wood board and donna I want to say, uh It's true that sometimes I want to leave at the end when we're in council reports, but sometimes I want to leave at the beginning so I think there's no terrible difference Yeah But no Oh Thank you Good call. Thank you. Um, so reporting from the tw wood gallery They are in the middle of a search for a new executive director after a couple of years jenny callan is stepping down Uh, and uh, I would Well, I'm really looking forward to that process Applications are due on friday. I think that's the 15th and it's uh It's an exciting time for the wood. Um They're also working on an elevator for the building the the center for arts and learning. Uh, it's a uh I think it's a four-story building And the elevator is going to have five stops and it's not going to stop on the top floor because It's two buildings tacked together. So it's surprisingly expensive for for a short elevator But they are working hard and it should be great um And there are a couple of great shows up at the wood right now, uh, including, uh, show of paintings by local uh Ray brown and not this thursday, but the following thursday, there will be a Film premiere of a movie by nat winthrop on ray brown's painting in his life At the wood you should all go. I think it's five to seven thursday Next week at the wood um I was really pleased to see in the the uh report this past friday that there's a really cool, uh snow plow tracker online that that uh dpw is setting up And I'm not sure if it's officially fully launched yet, but you can find it And I think that's great Uh, and uh, I will be at baggitos as usual tomorrow morning 8 39 30 if anyone has any Thing they would like to talk about. Thank you especially um, I would just like to thank all of um district three who came out to vote on town meeting day. Um, and I I am Very aware of of some of the significant concerns that people have raised about the energy efficiency um ballot item and I um You know, I've had lots of conversations with folks about this and sort of did you know did my best to to explain sort of what What I envision as as being the path forward From that and so um, I just want to put out there that I'd like to start those conversations As soon as possible just just in terms of like even what the council was thinking with this because I think With with community collaboration and input and bringing stakeholders together a lot Earlier on in the process, but you know, I'd even say we should probably do that before Um, it it even comes up to go to the legislature next session Um, I think that those conversations are really really worthwhile I have a lot of friends who have been looking for places to live here and there's just there's very few options in terms of rentals and so Um, I just I want everybody to know that that you know, the the margin was small But I think that with with the council support and with community support and just really bringing everybody together upfront to To sort of talk about concerns and and figure out, you know a path forward together We could do some really meaningful work cool It's not on the it wasn't on the agenda tonight, but I will uh Can report on what's going on with the ADA committee? um we The committee has been going through a process of evaluating all of the uh municipal properties in the city and uh retained a consultant to review all the properties in the city and Come up with a plan for what needs to be done to bring everything into compliance with the ADA and it's everything from city hall to the public works garage to to hubbard park and the And the swimming pool litter literally everything and so we've got a table. We're working on setting priorities for all the uh, all the upgrades Some of the upgrades are Are cheap to free and some of them are Very expensive, so it's We're we're developing a plan within the next uh Probably in April or may we'll be coming to the to the council to uh to make a presentation With the plan being that uh, we would have a plan in place by uh June 1st, I believe and so There's there's a lot of good work that's been done already and uh keep your eye open for it Well, I'm really excited to be here and appreciative of the voters in district one and um Really have a lot to learn. So please anyone contact me anytime I info's up on the city council website and um, would love to just learn about issues that you all care about and that we might be working on so look forward to Just kind of rolling out my sleeves and getting to work and you know, I bring a background on environmental issues and really interested in racial justice economic inequality issues Also bringing the perspective of having young children as you saw at the beginning my loud and rambunctious children So, you know how we're making the city a great place for um young families So really look forward to working with you all and excited to be here Great, uh, so I would just add uh Congratulations again on your uh reelection and and welcome lauren. I know I said that at the beginning, but it's uh worth repeating I'm so glad to have you all Here again or for the first time So just to update a little bit about the energy committee that I've been on We're working on lots of different things. So I won't get into a lot of it. Um, I mean, it's everything from like projects that are potentials for the green revolving loan fund to continuing to be in touch with people from the Water resource recovery facility project to help make sure you know that that's That's going smoothly or staying in you know updated on on that There's a lot of talk about biodiesel right now as a potential for fleet vehicles as well as in heating for heating buildings And there's a lot of logistic questions around both of those Um, those things but uh, those are things that uh, you know, we think may be able to be worked out. So we're excited about Uh, biodiesel as a potential Um, so I'm more about that hopefully soon Um, we're super excited that we've got a facilities slash energy person coming on board During this next fiscal year Um, or I guess that's yeah right now it is the next fiscal year um And I guess that's I'll I'll leave it at that for now lots of work going on around weatherization Uh, like Window dressers to like help make those more energy efficient. Um, anyway, so there's there's lots of Great things happening. Um, and I also want to quickly address The article 14 again the energy efficiency Article that was on the on the ballot So I also want to thank everybody who came out to vote on that and I was actually very grateful for the dialogue that happened around that as well and and I I'm actually Really excited to start having these public conversations about where we go from here And so I agree well with counselor hill as to getting started with those dialogues with those count those conversations And the fellow who is here Richard phasey from a group called the energy futures group May be interested in helping to facilitate some public meetings around that so just like we have a partnership with the Vermont river conservancy to conduct public meetings around visioning for the The river a specific part of the part of the river. Um, this may be a useful partnership in helping to just start Um, hosting meetings and framing meetings and bringing people together With stakeholders and they're also a group that has some expertise in energy efficiency policy. So that's This is one possibility And so anyway regardless i'm looking forward to having some specific Public forums about just that so separate from a council meeting separate from You know not not relegating it to the energy committee but having a some some evenings that are just dedicated to talking about that and And we'll frame that up take that feedback and and then Hopefully come up with some some ideas and come back to the public and vet it again and You know just go through some iterative process there You know knowing that we have Values of of both energy efficiency and keeping Montpelier affordable. So You know, we want to see how we can be addressing both of those things So, uh, I guess I'll leave it there. Do you have a question? About the chart change. Yep. Oh, okay. Great. Okay. Well, we'll look for your story on that tomorrow. Excellent. Thank you Um, so yeah story about that And times are I guess Coming out tomorrow. Okay, super Hi everybody. Um, so we had a uh, a very successful town meeting day last week on tuesday. Um, everything went very smoothly Um, the uh, voter participation that we saw on november, uh, was historic And I think everywhere in vermont, uh, despite, you know, the fact that Things like automatic voter registration and same-day voter registration are really, uh, increasing turnout for bigger elections like, uh, general elections in november All of us are struggling a little bit with, you know, just ways to keep up participation In town meeting days in general, um, on an annual basis. So I encourage Any and all of you, if you have any ideas about, you know, How to keep up voter participation and not even keep it up, but encourage it in future elections to bring it to the clerk's office, please Also on the two charter changes that were voted for by the citizens of montpelier in november They passed their first two hurdles in the legislature, uh, recently The, uh, legislative council, uh, did not vote them on unconstitutional. Um, so we uh, we are moving forward Thank you so much Great, um, I've got a couple things one, um Talked to the mayor talked to with our consultant about the strategic planning sessions on april 15th and 16th And I think they will be very similar to last year the evening times on monday and tuesday nights The first night would be just the council Be somewhat similar to what we did last year, although you recall last year with three new council members and two people that only been on one year So we spent a lot of time sort of Get to know you and all that I think we'll do that because we do have a new member But we'll probably be a little shorter Review the strategic plan we did last year see how we want updated or if we want to start from scratch Those kinds of things and maybe start putting more of the meat on the bones that first monday night And then that gives the staff the chance during the tuesday day to react to that and offer comments or suggestions those kind of things And then tuesday night Might have to find a better room Then the last year But I would be all of you with the department it's and we're going to invite the chairs of some of the key committees So that they can be part of make sure we're all Planning the same way and particularly since we're doing a new city plan our master plan this year Including those so that I think that's how that's shaping up This is sort of an informational but somewhat of a question that the some of you are aware that the The school has put out RFP for after-school programs and our rec department has been sort of preparing one and we've been working soon I've been working with them to do that and it occurred to us as we were talking about it today that we had never Actually run that up the flagpole past you folks. So um, this it's due Friday. So Basically, this is a informing you that we intend to do that and be please tell us if we shouldn't No, I think it's good, you know, we have the we we have the facilities. They have they have a licensed state care program now We would plan to use a lot of the same community connections people and have been in touch with them So We thought it would be good to have a local The local city organization in at least making a proposal to give that the school board that option Yeah, I would just say knowing with young children that there's a shortage of child care available at the school and for after-school care I mean that seems like a great thing and I know there's changes happening at the school itself and so Two thumbs up Bill can you go back to the retreat Monday and Tuesday at one point you said leave it leave the 17th two Are we going to do? Yeah, I don't think we will we will not be using the evening of the 17th So are we going to try to get together with the park commission through this facilitator? Maybe we should talk about well, I mean, I think the parks commission would be at the Or at least a representative of the parks commission would be at this the night of the 16th Okay, I guess I I felt that we had promised a real get together with the whole council and the whole park commission When we talked with them earlier, but we can do that we I don't know well We just don't you know, I'm not sure what hers. I think she's flying out on the 17th So I just don't know If we would be able to do it that evening. So unless we can do a daytime one, which I doubt Okay, but we can schedule another one we'd be happy to do that We could get a different facilitator, you know just a meeting facilitator. I would propose that we do something Yeah, no, I think that's right commission and the whole council. So if it's not then We should start scheduling something in right Happy to do that. I the only one remembering that No, okay. We talked about doing that Okay I'm I I have one more thing just quickly. Um, we're not Pushing any panic buttons, but we would say that it's supposed to warm up On friday and have rain get into the 50s. We do is a lot of snow ice is still pretty thick on the river USGS tells us about one and a half feet thick Which can break up into big chunks So we did have an emergency team meeting today Call with the national weather service. We're doing it again friday. We'll be sending out Notices probably from on alert just reminding people that if you're if you have a basement that floods, you know, maybe get your stuff out This is the time of year that these things happen Of course, we never know that we don't think conditions will Happen this weekend, but you never know. So we're just so you know, we're an active planning mode in active Sort of alert and assigning people to have duty and monitoring everything that's going on Like I said, we're not pushing the panic button yet But people should be aware that there is a lot of snow a lot of things that could melt The river and that there's thick ice. So we need either the snow to drop or the ice to get thinner Or both our channels to open up. So the ice has a place to go So hope for good sugaring whether warm during the day then Right to slow things up and then melts more gradually I have a tech question I really appreciated jamie posting on front porch form about vermont alert because some people don't realize that But within vermont alert, you have to mark flooding to get some flooding announcements and alerts Do you know for sure that when you put yours out, it doesn't go in that category? We have several so I'd have to defer to the experts There are several categories that we can choose from including like everybody Um, so we because as a user you hit transportation storms, thunderstorms flooding And I didn't know if people had to know that in order to get it Okay, so that's all I have. Okay So we did have any anticipated Executive session tonight, which I believe requires two motions correct I move that the council find that there's an issue relating to The mitigation that premature general public knowledge would place the public body at a substantial disadvantage Second further discussion all in favor, please say aye. Aye opposed Okay If you have further comments now is a fine time It's okay, it's okay Serious situation that the D&W construction has created The drawing board the people continuing to park next to the drawing board and that narrow drive And I've had to pull in there meet an on the upcoming car Have to back out into traffic and I've seen a lot of people do that Some people parking where they're not supposed to blocking the drive D&W is using way more than they need of that m&m property for snow storage and Colour pipe storage. I think it would be within our reasonable to request a cut make that a two-way Constraint it in so that there's two lanes also the potholes are so deep a wagon and horse couldn't get through there right now Is that sorry to interrupt you? Um, is the plan that is sorry. I don't know whose responsibility is to level that But we on the land But immediately adjacent to drawing board Yeah, that's all Secondly the ability to feed meters when you have to climb up on a snow bank And I did get one ticket forgiven. Uh, but I challenged it I wanted that to go on record But it should be an incentive that we we need a clear policy on What whether meters are enforceable when you can't get to them in screen shoes, you know In the ADA category that jack mentioned, uh, our sidewalks are extremely Unlevel and unsafe right now in a lot of places some it's due to frost teams some it's due to age And a read nearby state. I just saw somebody got a personal half a million dollar judgment from uneven sidewalks But I'd also encourage you to look up the 60 minutes episode a few A month or two back Where one town An architect lost his sight And maintained his architectural practice in designing sidewalks that have the grooves So that we could become a blind friendly town to an nth degree just with textures and grooves that help people find their way around And I think that would be a both a smart and a constructive way to read Reclaim art both of those are quality of life issues today Like you see take action. Oh, thanks. Thank you. Thank you Cool. Yeah, thank you Uh jack I move we go into executive session pursuant to one vsa section 3 13 a one for the purpose of discussing pending Civil litigation to which the city is a party second for the discussion Before we vote, I just want everybody to know that we will not be coming out to take any further action. So Okay, all in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed Okay, great. Thank you everybody