 Hey there and welcome to the fedora podcast. This is episode number 32 I'm your host Eric the IT guy Hendricks and today we are going to be introducing a new segment a new line of Well, we'll call it a story arc. Sure. Why not? We're going to be talking to a lot of folks in the community in that that work with and for and around Fedora or Maybe even can just spell Fedora and we're going to talk about How do you Fedora? So we're going to be talking to contributors. We're going to be talking to some of the council Will will if you'd like to volunteer, you know, shoot me a metric message on matrix. And so I could think of few people better Maybe opinionated and vocal than my buddy Neil Gaapa. So without further ado, let me bring him in and Neil welcome to the Fedora podcast. Hey, Eric. It's nice to be here. It's been a Solid hot minute probably a couple of minutes since I've been on the podcast And I don't remember being able to see people when I did it last time You're absolutely right. I think we looked it up the other day. It was like episode 15 or something and the The podcast was audio only was pre-recorded. So we didn't have people like Joshua will hanging out in chat saying hello But yeah, so I guess I should say welcome back to the Fedora podcast It's great to be back again So I'll give you the the initial series of questions that I give everyone that I really want to dive into your story First is who are you? What do you do and what do you do for fun? Uh, well, um as little thing in the bottom right corner of my little window in this Background thing shows my name is Neil Gaapa. Uh, I I do stuff like a lot of different things. Um all over the open source world Um, kind of got my start. Oh gosh. What was it like 15 plus years ago? Uh, just Picking up and doing something fixing some stuff and packaging up some applications. I wanted to use myself and kind of snowballed from there. Um, as I like to say, uh, you know fedora is upstream first, um philosophy kind of like got ingrained into me when I first started and you know as I found problems and did stuff it just kind of Led me all over the open source world. So I've done little things here and there all over the place So I don't know if that's a sufficient answer for for this, but I think that's the best I've got Well, and we'll definitely dig into this a little bit deeper You know, there's there's already been a joke in chat about what doesn't Neil do and that was that was kind of My impression when you and I first started chatting back and forth. I mean, we've we've been on podcast together. We've Um, been to some of the same conferences haven't managed to land at a conference at the same time Although we came close this summer. We did almost made it to uh, I almost made it to flock and uh, ended up being Ended up being pulled into a couple of other things, but uh So it was it was you and a few other folks that it was like you're everywhere What when do you sleep? um during the sleeping hours here, um, but uh, you know, it's uh I I paste myself very well when I come to do when I do stuff like this like and um A lot of my approach comes around trying to do the maximal minimal viable Thing as I like to call it. It's a terrible name to describe this but the idea is You know, I look at a problem that I have and I look at How I want to solve it and I also look at like can I solve this problem? It in a reasonably same way across more than one place So like I look at what I'm doing in fedora and I look at what I'm doing in open susa and I look at what I'm doing Uh in centos and and and whatever Um, and if I have something that looks like the same problem in in those places I try to see if I can redo this a solution that works for all of them and then I just push it to everybody So I I go and do it in fedora and I go and do it in open susa and the idea there is um, when you do it that way, um, it has a more a stronger chance of actually succeeding because you get consensus across more than one community and also um, you did you tend to get um a much more diverse range of Feedback which can be helpful in developing um the solution over time and supporting it on the long haul And and for those listening, what what did you call that again the maximum minimal something the maximal minimal viable solution? Neil you should write a textbook Oh, man Someday there will be a memoir There you go Oh gosh, and and if you're in the chat help help Neil name his memoir. We'll take votes So how did uh, I want to dive into your story. Um, how did you initially get involved in technology? I think the question is When when has technology not existed around me and I think the answer is never um, I will From since I can remember as a very small child I've always been bassinated around technology computers and all this stuff and and using it and playing with it and working around it um From a very early age like I took a very deep interest into into this stuff and you know my first computer that that I Used to work with was essentially a hand me down desktop from my from my dad that Uh, it was a gateway 2000 pc uh, and it ran windows nt 4.0 workstation and uh Had this neat feature in the chassis where you could pull out and rotate The drive base so you could turn it from a tower to a pizza box configuration uh Back in the 90s people people had computers that were horizontal And sitting on your desk You know, I know that's something that you might people on the internet today may not know of or I've ever seen But you know, it wasn't just laptops that sat on desks It was actual desktop PCs the name desktop has a meaning and I know that's shocking But they used to sit on the desk But in all seriousness like that was one of my first computers and one of the first things I did was like blow away windows nt 4 and put it into like different operating systems like windows 98 or then later dos and then red hat linux up there And and it kind of snowballed from there And I I kind of kept my interest in doing all those kinds of things and uh because the the Space in particular like with computers and and linux Was so dynamic that like there was always something I found interesting that I wanted to do or play with or whatever And what got me hooked eventually was being able to do um audio work audio visual stuff because I you know, I like to play with that sort of thing and then I kind of just went from there into Writing code and and all these other things. So I've just been I've been doing it since I can since I can remember Hmm You and I came up in a similar era of technology. Um, it's just interesting how paths diverge Like my my dad had an early macintosh and then uh, then an iMac and then our first My my brother and I our first computer was a an e-machine running windows millennium edition Oh my lord And I blame that I blame that tower for being involved in technology and becoming a systems administrator but uh, I thought about writing code and programming but When I when I got to my second programming class And started learning c sharp. It's just like no, I cannot do this for the rest of my life 40 to 80 hours a week at no And then I looked across the hall and there was there is the uh server room And so I got started playing with network switches and operating systems and servers and and you know, the rest is history But uh, it's it's really interesting to talk with with folks I know you and I talked many a night late into the Late into the early hours of the morning just talking about technology and things that are coming out Was there anything was there anything in particular was there an advancement or something that really really sparked that love of technology Or was it just always there? Um, I think it was kind of always there for me. I mean, I think what ultimately reinforced it and kept me on the path Was that my parents supported it because it was you know, a lot of times, you know, I I've met Other kids and and and during the time that I grew up You know being a nerd or geek was not exactly um Rewarded right like being knowledgeable in this kind of stuff was not something that was considered cool or good or whatever and Nowadays it's a lot better and I'm very grateful that we have another generation of people that are actually they're their interests are being supported by default rather than not and But but if it weren't for my parents supporting me back then then I don't I don't think I would have stuck with it I would probably fallen back to some of my alternates which had probably been in like I don't know physics and chemistry or maybe just or becoming a A manga artist or something like comics and stuff like that was my another interest of mine or or film Those were the other things that I Like I kind of was interested in and like that if I hadn't been Uh supported into being in computers. I probably would have fallen back to one of those other things Well, I don't know about you, but I finally got validation probably See my son is seven so probably about eight years ago the The quote basketball star at our at our school ended up selling My my last house for me So just and he I wasn't going to say anything and but he called it out Yeah, he actually called it out. He's like remember all the crap we used to give you in high school for being a nerd I'm sorry about that Yeah age of the geek as uh if one of my one of the shows that I like watching a leverage Uh, what is it hardison? I believe he would say age of the geek and I'm like, yep, you know what that's super true So we talked about technology and you started kind of tinkering with it for yourself But when when did you come across open source? When did this start to become? I'll I've got I'll link another podcast where I was talking about when I realized at some point that Linux is not just a technology. It's not just code that runs on top of hardware. It's it's an entire community So what was that moment like for you? Well, so my first encounter with open source doesn't have anything to do with linux my first encounter with open source was um Getting a good compiler to uh, run programs on dos And I used of what was it called dj gpp. Uh, dj delores the new Port for ms dos And I believe dj delori works at redhead now I don't know if they worked at sickness back when Back in the before red had acquired sickness or if you if they were just independent or whatever But dj delores A gnu stack for dos Was my first real experience and that was with having gcc And emacs and all the stuff and it was a monumental upgrade over what was available to me as a kid You know with you know the cube basic and ms dos editor and stuff and it was such and I remember Opening up emacs for the first time and being greeted with the manifesto because when you open up emacs without any files Um, it'll it'll give you this welcome to gnu emacs and it'll guide you through like an introduction to emacs and an introduction to the gnu project and from there it just kind of uh, you know It it made a the first spark of it was the realization that open source was actually about people and about And about what people wanted and needed Rather than this, you know cold if you think about it from a microeconomics perspective perspective of consumers and producers You know fast forward a few years later and you know, I discovered linux and I started installing red hat linux on my computer and You know I got on to irc and started hanging out in the chat channels asking for help about doing stuff And I think that's where the second point clicked in when someone helped me by pointing me to x3 86 And giving me a couple patches and saying, you know try this I just wrote this off the cuff for you can you Can you put this all together see if it fixes your problem for reference? The problem was that I couldn't get my monitor to stop degossing randomly because it was going at a high enough resolution that the The knobs for it because back back then, you know You didn't have this plug-and-play thing where it could detect through edid all the resolutions and refresh rates It was doing something wrong and I didn't know what it was doing and And this person on the internet who I don't know who it was or anything Just wrote this patch for me and said just compile all this and see if it works Well, I don't I never figured out whether it worked because I broke my entire system doing it Because I didn't actually know how to compile x for 86 and and Just for some context for all you people it's not configure make make install with x for 86 They use their own old build system scripts. I think it you know the internet calls them I make I don't actually know what their formal name was but it was horrible and it Was not it was very difficult to actually get working, right? So I broke my computer But the realization of somebody tried to help me just because they could and wanted to Because they wanted to be helpful That was actually one of the first experiences I had of something like that because You know outside of that circumstance. I really hadn't had people do that for me And so that was open source is to me like a community of people that want to help other people And and that I think underpins the way I approach open source as well So you you were contributed to but what was your first contribution? What was the first bit of code that you ever had submitted? Well, the first thing I ever wrote was an installer For virtual dub written in nsis that the guy didn't like um so But that led to the first project I ever worked on where I did get patches in Which was the experience ui which was a skin for the null soft scriptable install system nsis and I met that person on the internet and um, and and I told him like hey, I like this thing But this particular thing didn't work here's my attempt to try to fix it and we became friends and Started working on it together as a project until a few years later where we started making A cms system together the anano cms. So this other person was daniel fury who A few years later Right after I graduated college and had my first job, which I blamed out of He Referred me and helped me get launched my career as a dev ops engineer professionally when I joined Datto back in 2015 and I stayed there for eight years um, so And it was kind of a two-way street because I had started diving deeper into linux at the same time And I took him along for the ride and so we both kind of did it together and While our paths eventually diverged and then came back together and then diverged again um the The experience of getting involved in open source and in linux and and the free software community was um Really really big to me and around that same time um, I got into Ubuntu into that at first and then later fedora as a contributor Uh and brought in my first package into fedora, which is no longer in fedora today because reasons But it was a tool called odd convert, which what it would do is use cheese streamer Uh to convert anything that cheese streamer supported to aug borbas and theora. It was written in pi gtk and uh And it's no longer in fedora because it's in python 2 and nobody worked on it anymore for years and years So it I was a little sad when I had to retire the first package I ever made but uh Yeah, uh, it was kind of as I found things that I wanted to do or there were things that I felt like I You know, I wanted to have to to make my experience a little better I would go and try to figure out either how to help someone else do it or to do it myself and then try to to to make the result available to to other people and Because that came that stems all the way back to that first time with the guy with the x3 86 thing of you know I I'm trying to help pay it forward and everybody who has done all this stuff in open source Has helped everyone else And so, you know for me, it's you know, it's my little way of also helping everyone else by paying it forward in that respect Oh love that Not being much of a not being much of a developer myself I had I ended up finding other ways to turn you back to the community and that's that's why we have all this today. In fact You've been around for pretty much most of the ride all the way back from Uh, when we used to hang out on tuesday afternoons on linux unplugged to yes, know a show and then You're one of our very first super fans for for the pseudo show and eventually became Brandon's and my recommendation to backfill me as I moved off to I ended up taking on some packages or some some projects at red hot where I work and So I've got I've got two shows there. I and now I've I've picked up the fedora podcast and So it's it's been amazing to have people And and that's kind of why I asked if you would be our first. How do you fedora guest? Because I know I know the kind of person you are. We've never met in public. We've no we still haven't we've crossed paths so many times It's ridiculous how many times we've almost crossed paths But I mean just that just that sheer love of technology and and that that drive you have to help others find their love to To overcome obstacles To find that next step in their career. I mean it really it really embodies the spirit of open source And in a says that we should end up at flock next year, which I think is in the states So I might be able to make my fingers I would like for it to be a slightly more affordable this time because it was not cheap flying to ireland I mean ireland was fun, but I would like for it to hurt my pocketbook a little bit less Yeah, I hear that Okay, so let's let's bring this back Um, so what what got you involved with the flora community and what are you doing there today? Oh, so I got involved in fedora actually as kind of an an interesting science If I mentioned a little bit ago that I first started in bunto and then jumped into fedora um So I was I've been a red hat linux user in the in the early from 2000 all the way up until 2005 ish. I think yeah And at that point I started using a bunto and fedora at the same time on different systems um, so I started with I think like was fedora or I want to say three or four um, and and uh, and also used a bunto 504 and It's a breezy badger and I used them on different systems And I got involved in both communities at basically the same time as a contributor type um with the boon to that was mostly being involved in their forums And and hanging around with helping people in irc and stuff like that um, but I kind of realized somewhat quickly But I couldn't really do more than that in a bunto at the time And I started kind of hunting around of another place I found sentos it was unbroiled in its own war. So I kind of left there Again, this is 2005 2006 people. There's turbulence in there um Someday somebody will talk about it. It's it's a lot um But I also then decided to look at fedora again and try to become And and do some stuff there. So there were some applications I was using on my own that I'd like Install from source or whatever and I was like, well, can I Make this available to other people in an easy way and I learned about rpm packaging And I gave it a shot and back then fedora um sponsor package fedora had this concept of Sponsors and proven packages and all this other stuff. I mean, they still have the concept today, but back then the Packager sponsors Were also mentors and so they were they were supposed to teach you how to do packaging How to work with the fedora tooling and stuff like that And my mentor my sponsor back then was brian pebble who's not really involved in fedora anymore these days, but um, he helped me get started with my first package odd convert And taught me how to do the basics of python back with packaging of python stuff and this all kind of started because um the upstream odd convert project had an rpm spec file that didn't work and so I made one and then put it in fedora and Kind of kept doing that uh and eventually branched out into things Then avon window navigator because I wanted a cool dock on my computer screen and there wasn't one in fedora at the time Um, and then I did a bunch of other things and it just kind of spread out from their um Going on and on and on those packages that I first started out with they don't exist in fedora anymore but I would but you know That's because things have changed bald for example Docks aren't as cool anymore. A lot of them have been integrated into desktops directly. So separate programs for them aren't needed odd convert Odd convert probably would have still been around if somebody took it up and like rewrote it into something that was Maintainable like there was an attempt to rewrite a devala That didn't get done that didn't get finished and it was still in python 2 and he used an old version of g streamer like that was none of that was going to work anymore and so um But yeah, like I got involved in fedora as a contributor Um then and it just snowballed into the point where I just started gradually doing more stuff I got involved in fedora server. I got involved in fedora kde. I got involved in the cloud I got involved in In in in snaps, which then led me into workstation and all this other stuff Like so like there's been some fun detours along the way, but at this point I think I'm like Let's see fedora kde fedora workstation fedora cloud fedora server fedora rust, which I helped co-found uh Dora go fedora python Like there's a bunch of others. Yeah a bunch of things there and the most recent thing was You know founding fedora sahi right and and and I just I do this because um like I have the knowledge and the capability and Other people, you know Maybe they need a little bit of assistance. Maybe they need a kick start. Maybe they need boost. Maybe they need Uh, maybe they need something that I know and can help with up front and I I dive right in because I want to help people You know, I want to help people succeed in in what they want to have and what they want to do and And that sometimes means I'm in a little bit of everything So You mentioned obin susa you mentioned ubuntu you mentioned fedora What what's it like sitting at the crossroads of a bunch of these different projects? I think we have I think the community at large kind of has this um This concept that all these different distributions Desktop environments are just at each other's throats that it's it's it's a distra war almost Is that how things are sitting at this crossroads or do you have a different view? As you were saying that josh was posting in here that says i'm the reason that budgie is in fedora And it's like which is actually sort of true because like several years before I had gotten involved in solace for a brief time and had worked with icky door tea on budgie and And I attempted to package budgie desktop for fedora And kind of gave up for a while and then josh took it over later when he took over buddies of budgie and then brought it In and all that other stuff. I also did this with the lumina project I was briefly involved in the true os and pcbsd thing helped to bring lumina into fedora and a bunch of other distributions But you asked what's it like to be in in in all these and and whether there's a distra war in sorts um If the distributions are sufficiently large and sufficiently diverse um, you tend to see that they have A lot more of a co-optition type field to them They're friendly with each other they collaborate and stuff But there are obviously differences of opinion where which leads to Some divergences so for example fedora and open susah have a ton of collaborative efforts And there's a lot of things going on both behind the scenes into the front lines Where you see convergence happening, but there's also aspects of divergence for example Fedora has not yet adopted a boot to snapshot strategy because the way that we do um, the operating system initialization and and the way we structure Our butter fs setup is different from open susahs and there are Uh, good reasons for those differences Uh, does that mean that we aren't learning from what open susahs does or open susahs isn't learning from what we do and and adapt accordingly No, we we still talk to each other. We do a lot of stuff on that front um, and abuntu talks to us from time to time I think we see more of them in the upstream projects sometimes like particularly with Canome and and a couple of other places, but um I think I I tend to see slightly more debian upstream debian folks than I do abuntu folks because they Debians are much more diverse group, but as you kind of get into the more, um, the smaller distra teams I think you tend to see it sometimes turn from a cooperative field to a competitive field um For various reasons sometimes distributions are set up out of spite sometimes distributions are set up over A falling out sometimes distributions are set up over You know a change in direction And so depending on the underlying motivations for creating a particular distribution You will see that community ultimately inherit That that feel of that culture, um You and I I'm sure we could think of a few distributions like this within even the red hat ecosystem where those differences are very stark And you can tell based on You know where their starts were where their starting points were and how that's seeded into The culture of the project and things like that. That's true everywhere, right? You'll see this all over the place across different projects No, I I couldn't think of couldn't think of even one. No, no, not not at all I'm not even gonna like cop up a hint right So, uh But I will add one last bit about this right just because I remembered um, I think people Within the open source community, it's very easy to operate within your bubble It's even harder to go out and like one of the things that I've noticed is that you know I I don't personally think I do a ton of amazing things or a lot of great stuff or whatever But what I have noticed that I do is that I can see uh a I can see the connections and I can see the differences and I can kind of I can take both an insider and an outsider view of things and people tend to notice that a lot like I people like josh say kneels everywhere and it's like And doing all the things and it's just like I'm just actually and a lot of times I'm just communicating and mediating and bridging the bridging different communities together so that everyone benefits from each other's knowledge and experience in and And I'm happy to play that role. It's it there just aren't that many people doing it And so it it tends to be easy to think that uh open source is a lot more isolated than than it is because I mean it feels like that most of the time um Yes, breaking down the silos as j star hawk says is yeah And in some respect, I guess that kind of relates to me being a you know in In a previous role being a dev ops engineer and like the whole mantra about dev ops is breaking down silos I've been doing it since before I was a dev ops engineer. I made it before it was cool And possibly after it was cool So you've gotten a ton of kudos in the chat and I'm sure a lot of these folks probably want to know what are you working on right now? Well So the big projects I'm working on right now Are mostly around fedora kde and and fedora sahi. I also got some stuff floating around in open susa helping out The open susa calpa folks who are making their version of fedora kenoite using butter fs and transactional update The the the big thing at this very moment. I'm kind of focused on you know Getting the fedora a sahi remix to its first stable release I'm also doing some work in the background in fedora infrastructure around Um, you know helping get some of the newest versions of our infrastructure software package available on top of rail nine So that our infrastructure can be upgraded because Some of it's on really old stuff and we really don't want it to be there anymore And Also kind of in open susa. I'm also involved in the open susa heroes Which is the equivalent of the fedora infrastructure team and I helped maintain Are the open susa forge their pager instance, which is code.opensusa.org similar to fedora's pager.io and outside of that like You know doing some Doing doing some other stuff here and there trying to wherever I Recently with multimedia. I've been doing a lot around ffmpeg and obs studio And because like I'm doing my own I'm doing streaming myself And I want to be able to have all this stuff work out of the box in fedora So I'm trying to scratch my own itch on that front. So those are kind of the things That I'm working on but the fedora sahi infrastructure stuff Fedora kde, you know, the big thing right now is working towards plasma six, you know, the big push to um for fedora kde to be a With wayland as the as the The sole experience, you know polishing up all the edges with upstream kde's help to make sure everything's all Fit and finished for that Other stuff along those lines these days. I do a lot of desktop related stuff as opposed to cloudy server stuff because You know the server stuff is fine And while the cloud and the cloud stuff like all the basic cloud stuff's in a good state now But like the desktop stuff that I feel like that has a lot That that has a lot of potential and it's something I'm very passionate about that. I want to make it good across Uh across all the places that I I want to do Stuff in so like, you know, I want to have cloud I want to have good desktops a good desktop experience on my own computer But I also want to offer good desktop experience for others and you know cloud-based desktops for people that need emergency backup instances in the cloud or on a vps or whatever Doing all kinds of interesting stuff like that What about what about future plans and I don't mean just like next year like long term. Where do you see yourself? King of the world Love it Done. We can close that question. No seriously, um longer term um I don't know. Um, I kind of take I tend to take things more day at a time and I used to be somewhat a neurotic grand perfectionist type person but after plan after plan and and and detail after detail getting blown up in my face a lot and Basically having meltdowns over and I kind of learned to kind of take a step back for blood pressure among other things and and start to kind of Take it as it goes, but Um, like I have some I have some cool things that I that I'd like to see I mean my my personal hope is to start, you know driving more towards, you know getting this fedora on computers Uh thing rolling in in such a way that we have this You know, my personal hope would be to have a large swap Of of choices for people to get fedora pre-loaded on it And and be able to have an out-of-the-box Linux experience that I would be proud of A huge push right now. In fact, we just had a special edition of the fordora podcast last week Um talking about the new fedora slim book So if you missed that episode go check it out. Oh, yeah, no slim, but people are great. Um The first time I met them, uh was a few years ago and then and they helped me out with, uh You know helping supercharge my ability to Do some work on on wayland related stuff Um and last year I met them properly first time at academy and You know, they kind of gave me a sneak peek of of the model that would eventually become the fedora slim book And I was incredibly impressed So, you know, the quality of that machine is is pretty out there Uh, and you know, I'm personally looking forward to the framework myself I've got one I got a framework 16 pre-ordered that I'm looking forward to actually finally get And throw fedora on it and use it as my daily driver For my for my main working environment I mean right now I'm working off of a mini pc. I bought like five years ago as a backup computer And it's now my only one right now. So yeah All right, so here's here's your chance I know that uh neil doesn't have much of a reputation for being opinionated. So Oh, no, I I understand if this is difficult for you to answer Hmm But what would you tell somebody just getting started whether it's with technology open source their career or fedora any spectrum all the spectrums what uh What would you tell somebody just getting started? Find out what motivates you to go do things um find a positive alignment for that and then Blend that with the things that you're interested in And you can't go wrong. So if you find yourself motivated by Seeing what's wrong in the world or what's wrong in in in your computing experience or what's wrong in you know a particular Toy or something like that or something that you're making or whatever Instead of thinking about the the negative side of the coin which is all this is all Not this is all bad And I can't really and and it sucks and there's nothing I can do about it Think about the ways that you would improve it and see if there's a way that you can Make that improvement real and then kind of go from there taking that kind of the attitude towards things um Will almost always be a stronger self sustaining motivation than something that's externally driven because Ultimately the person that's doing the effort is you and you got to want to do what you're doing And if you don't want to do what you're doing, it's not going to stick Someone in here mentioned intrinsic motivation. Yes, that's technically I think the term for this Well, uh, there's been a couple of questions about uh, your your new, uh, spin. Um Gosh, I just blanked a sahi. Goodness. It's been a long day. Um, so Uh The gist of the questions was can we expect? Uh, the first day were released soon What what are we looking at time? Why timeline wise? Gosh, I hope it's soon. Um So in all seriousness the number of from from the fedora sahi six side, um Most of our blockers are now cleared. Um, we are essentially we are currently Looking at a fedora 39 based target Um at this point in time the more concerning thing at the more the thing of our concern Is fedora 39's own release schedule. So there's you know, there's been a few blockers here that are being worked on Things are looking better now. We will see how that goes. But uh From the perspective of what for the fedora sahi remix My expectations will be shortly out Past that when exactly I don't know but we don't we're a lot of this has been kind of um dragging through our own schedules and the different contributors stuff and a lot of us got sick for for a month which really slowed things down and uh And yeah, we'll I'm I'm crossing my fingers for soon tm. We I just gave a talk at linux vest northwest um This like on saturday So this just this past weekend, and I believe they uploaded the videos already, um That where me and david a calvaca Gave a talk about the fedora sahi remix and you know, we told you then we told them then That we're we're looking for soon and and that's pretty much All I can really say about it at this point, but I promise y'all When we do it's gonna be it's gonna be very exciting and and you're gonna You can still try it now like the you can get the beta um and install it on your machines now just by uh going to fedora dash asahi dash remix.org Awesome Well as we start to wrap up today's episode are there any closing thoughts any any last minute topics that you want to You want to go over? I think that this has been a weird episode because I Don't usually talk about myself But this has been fun and I really would like to come back again to talk about stuff rather than me Because it's very weird talking about me, but you know I hope that other people kind of get an idea of like how I uh, you know how I work and think and maybe someone will be inspired By what I said to to pursue something interesting in open source Whether that's writing code doing packaging documentation artwork marketing all the things like Sure go for it like The open source is made up of is all about the community and the community is all about the people and if you're if people are in and and and willing to do stuff to support what they what they want and what they believe in then Great things can happen Yeah, you're getting lots of kudos in the chat um And and several votes for you to come back onto the show and and I think we've got you tagged in At least two upcoming episodes one one being a sahi and uh, I'm I'm pretty sure you've been voluntold for a couple of others that Yeah, I I just simply remember being voluntold for this one too. So, you know I don't mind, but you know We got to make sure that I actually know that I've been voluntold first But I'm I'm really glad that you you agreed to come on and talk about uh, how you fedora and uh, you you've been a You've been a big help and encouragement in in my own journey Um and doing stuff like this was never in in the cards in fact if you had a told uh high school eric that he was eventually going to write papers and uh give presentations and all sorts of things like that Uh for a living and enjoy it and then do it in his spare time as well I would have called you nuts, but But even I would have called you nuts if you if anyone had told my high school self I was going to be anywhere like this Right But you were one of the people that was in my corner that pushed me to do this and and I distinctly remember Maybe not quite a year into the pseudo show just feeling like we'd hit a wall and it's not growing It's not doing anything more And uh and you and I hung out you and I think brandon and I hung out late into the night Uh over drinks and we're just chatting after after one of the pseudo hangouts And uh and really just chatting about you know, this is doing what it's supposed to be doing and uh So I for for that I'm very very appreciative and I know that you do that for so many people out in the community So if if you're new to the community if you want to get involved Reach out to neil We'll have a lot of his contact information in the show notes in the next hour or so I've I've got to do chapter markers and links and all that good stuff. But uh once we get that put together It's a mess right now. So hopefully I can clean it up a little bit But uh, you've got a github sponsor link. You've got uh social links all all the things those will be in the show notes And I've got a website and I I saw that comment. So you we'll we'll add neil's new website in there as well If you're following the uh fedora podcast or if you came to the fedora podcast just to troll neil in the chat Which is what I would have done if I wasn't hosting the episode Make sure to hit that like like button and uh and share this episode out with friends Uh, but also make sure you subscribe to the channel hit that bell So you get notified anytime we go live because you never know when we'll have a crazy new announcement and have an extra episode Like last week. So this is three weeks. We've had three episodes Um, so if we could like throw together a quick announcement, uh, we could have four Four and four weeks, but uh, I think uh, I think I need to go to bed I have a feeling you're gonna do it anyway Uh, I don't have unless we have a crazy topic, uh come up out of the blue We'll be live again in two weeks where if I can pull it off We're going to try and pull together several of the fedora program managers Uh, including matthew miller himself to talk about the history of fedora because fedora's birthday is coming up here in just a few weeks And then sometimes shortly after that we'll have fedora linux 39 and all the spins and labs that go with it So stay tuned to this channel. Um If you're catching the audio version, um, you can also catch this on youtube You can see neil's beautiful face and you can also see my dog Trying to go back to sleep. I think he's trying to eat your floor That's what it looks like But uh with that said, I'm going to go and lay down I've been in uh ansible training this week and so my brain is fried So neil, thank you very much for caring most of the episode Uh, well, I guess you're welcome. I think All right, folks, thank you all for joining us live if you're joined us after the fact There there'll be a thread on discussion dot fedora project.org There's of course the youtube comments thread anywhere, uh, and a podcast channel on fedora's uh matrix space So plenty of places to engage with neil myself fedora and a whole bunch of other contributors and uh community members So, uh, we will see you again in two weeks again I've been eric the it guy and um my guest today was neil gampa and we were talking about how do you fedora? So, um, oh one last thing be sure to submit somebody in the comments or to me directly If you if you can think of someone who should be our next. How do you fedora podcast guest? with that said That's far too many call to actions in in the space of two minutes But you can tell i'm tired and i'm rambling so with that i'm going to end the episode and we will see you all in two weeks Thank you all so much