 Next time you bite someone, I'm going to bite you. So now that we're in agreement, don't bite people. Don't bite people. Because next time I will bite you. Would you be okay with that? I have seen it. I've never recorded a single video. How does Facebook know anything about me? I love YouTube. I don't have 100% confidence. No, I shamelessly plug everywhere. Alright, cool. So, let's see. Do I look handsome? Am I good? Everything alright? Of course. Nice, thanks. Poochette. My name is Ty. I have a hobby. Hi, I'm Bethany. Bethany, nice to meet you. I saw your talk today. That was very cool. So normally I have a hobby where I talk to people about things that are strongly motivated by things that they really strongly believe. It's fun if it's something that you think you may not be wrong about and we could just, I'll ask that questions. I'm not trying to make this an argument or a debate, but I'm really trying to help you figure out like, did I come to this conclusion using a good reliability method? And if you want to do that on me, I'm totally fine with it too. I like to think about this conversation. Is there anything that you have like a really strong belief about? I think I need help on the spanking for kids. Spanking for kids? That's definitely like a heavy topic. What's your position right now? That's probably one of my first talks in a song through histology and it stirred like an emotional response for me. I probably would say I'm at a 90% confidence that I'm against it. 90% confidence that you're against it? Yeah, probably when I first heard a talk, I was probably at 100. Okay. Now I've got that lower confidence. Okay, so what's your position on spanking kids? Spanking kids, why are you still so high on spanking kids ever? Yeah, well, it's the classic, it's how I was raised. I'm really not forward at all. I don't do it for my kids and I researched the child development and how it can be harmful down the road and call these like average child experiences. Or really weird fetishes. I'm wondering, is there a middle ground? Like maybe not necessarily, you do agree, would you say in discipline, your child, but just not like harmful abuse smacking them? Right, yeah, more like the constructive, positive parenting list. Let's see if we can find something else besides spanking first. Okay, what would be some of those middle grounds? Probably like taking away privileges or timeouts. Definitely probably timeouts and taking away privileges are the two main methods that I use for much over. Okay. Is there a possibility that something a little bit more harsh than that, not necessarily spanking, but more harsh than just timeouts for taking away privileges could have a constructive, beneficial view? Yes. What would you say is like the most, not spiking, but like the most aggressive form of discipline that could actually be? Because they've actually been talking about maybe timeouts, maybe it's not such a good idea. Yeah, yeah. Is that isolating the child instead of just kind of helping them regulate their feelings? Sure. And when I think I heard that, uh-oh. It's like here I was away from spanking and now I'm moving toward my thought that timeout was effective, but it may not be effective for my second child, so I don't know yet. Is there anything that's more harmful, more aggressive than timeouts that you'd still be okay with? Like if I said, hey, I don't have kids, but like pretend I did, I said, um, I don't timeout or, uh, it was the other one, timeout or take away privileges. I just say, if you do this again, then something bad's gonna happen. Like if you do this, it'll be immediate, but like we're in agreement that if you do this action again, you might get hurt because I don't know how to control myself on this. This hurt me so much that I'm letting you know again, child to me, you should be well enough to play or that if you do this again, this bad thing's gonna happen afterwards. Telling, stepping out of the street. Or like, um, you hit a kid in school or something like that, it's like, listen, do you know what that feels like? Okay, don't do it again, or I'm gonna show you what that feels like. Like biting. Biting probably is probably better. That's probably bad. I, when I was growing up, I bit a lot of people. I've been in adults' people, and kids and stuff like that. It's like, if you bite, I'm gonna bite you so you know what it feels like. Are you cool with that? Because the next time you do it, the next, that's what I'm talking about in a generic way. The next time you bite someone, I'm gonna bite you. So now that we're in agreement, don't bite people, don't bite people. Because the next time I will bite you, would you be okay with that? But I have seen it. Yes. I would be, I would be troubled about that. Can I pull into a context that I'm a little bit more familiar with? I got a cat. I love my cat. I'm a cat dad. A really, really big cat dad. I squirt him with water. Yes. Or I move from water to air. Like I have a spray can of air, and it works way better. Because one, it sounds like a hiss. Yeah. And two, there's no like long-lasting marks. Because I think once he does something bad and I squirt it with the air, 30 seconds he has no idea what is wrong. But he's still wet after that. So just quick air spray can. And now it's gone to a point where if I think he's doing something bad, because I can hear some rum in the kitchen, I just spray the can and I can hear him jump off the shelf. Just like walk back to his bed and be like, room's away, no problem. If it was something like that for a person, like if it was an equivalent to that, okay I'm going to spray with water to do that. Like I don't respect that. Would you be more cool with that? Yeah. It doesn't sound cool. I mean it's kind of strange, but I guess it would, doesn't seem to me quite as powerful as like spanking or not quite, maybe not as humiliating, I'm not sure. What about washing your mouth with soap? Ooh. Yeah, I'm not that naughty. Yeah. I think the pulp... That's a good one. I don't like the chemical aspect of it. Yeah, yeah, like sporting other possibilities. There's something I always wonder, like you know what, I'm not this deep like elbow move, because I'm like, okay I just want to make sure I'm in like the right place. Okay, how about this? How about this? I think it might be going on to something, because I'm working it out too. If someone does, a kid does something bad, like beats up a kid, another kid in school, you're like, you find out your kid's a bully. Now you say, okay, check this out. Not only am I taking away your privileges, I'm not going to bother the timeouts. You have to do these activities, mowing the lawn, helping that person mow the lawn, mow that kid's lawn. Like you're going to have, you're going to talk to this person, and you're going to work for that kid for the next couple of weeks or so, and you're going to do some hard labor. It's going to suck, you're going to be sore, but you're going to build some character in terms of like empathy people, like building empathy with regard to people, because you will realize what he's coming in front of when you do his work for him. And if you don't do that, it's just going to get worse. That's the circumstance you were before we get back to square one. Imaginary kid, I'm sorry if I'm not going to do that. Imaginary kid, would you be okay with that? Is that something you'd be more in line with? Hard labor? Well, hard labor would back and break some water, right? Don't send me to your friend's account. Sure, it's okay. I think chores, and like what do they have in respect to other people, like cleaning, even like roadside trash pickups. Yeah, like putting some community hours, there's a group of like, there's Boy Scout Trooper, there's like YMCA group, you're now volunteering hours for them until we're back to square one. I'm not going to trash it apart. I mean, I learned a lot about like, hey, learning's not okay. Boom. Because I don't want to do that ever again. Okay. So I think, you know, short talk, but like I think we found like a really good middle ground that's more extreme than, you know, timeouts and privileges. Like, now you're going to benefit the society a little bit. Build some character, maybe you might actually like it, make it into a career or something. Yeah. It can work out. The things I wonder when I'm watching street personality, you're going to get in trouble. Awesome. Bethany, if you had time for something else, are you worried religiously, if you don't want to answer that? You're an atheist? Yes. Atheist, as in, what do you mean by that? What do you say atheist? Agnostic atheist. Oh! What do you mean by those words? I don't. I only asked over here. I don't know. I don't exist. I don't believe a God exists, but I can't even show it a hundred percent. But I like the whole thing. Were you ever religious? What made the transition? Last year. Okay. So you're very, you're like relatively minted agnostic atheist. Yeah. Okay. I'm an agnostic atheist myself. I'm wondering like, what, I always find it really interesting about what changes people's minds. Do you have a moment to talk about that? Yeah. It's actually the spanking issues what kind of helped me overturn my, my, I'm sitting on the fence of the agnostic for ever. Agnostic, agnostic? I just, I don't know, I just always call myself an agnostic. Ah, you didn't embrace the atheist way. Yeah, probably about 13 years. Got it. Yeah. So, so you were already sitting on the fence for a while. Mm-hmm. And then the spanking issues what made it? One, yeah, one of them, yeah, made it. If it turned out Christians weren't the ones spanking, and if, if I can show you a statistic that actually atheists spank kids more than Christians, would that make you go back a little bit? Okay. It would definitely make me want to do more research that we consider both the strong, you know, that strong position. They wouldn't, they'd try to be more middle of the road instead of black and white. Okay. And now, as before, I couldn't, I didn't know how to do that. Is spanking wasn't an issue whatsoever? Would you still believe in a god right now? Mm-hmm. Why not? Probably just because, like, I had a major falling out from my parents, and, I went to school and I started just learning more stuff about the world around me, and that, it's definitely, it's definitely, it's definitely stones, too. Okay. Just notice that I'm not saying it's a case. Pretend there's a religion out there that's like, fallouts with parents happen, but, check out all this awesome science stuff, and we don't agree on spanking kids. To the same certainty that you are. Plus, our god, Mr. TKO, whatever, exists. Now, you have the perfect religion to fall into, because now it seems to meet your needs on, you know, religious parents sometimes, but you can build them up long-term. You got the science stuff in there, you got the no spanking. It's like the perfect god belief. Would you believe in that god? It seems like there's an ingest, just spanking, family-related relationships and science. Like, what's keeping you from believing in the god right now? Probably the evidence. Okay. From the fact that it is un-falsifiable, so I'm just like, mm, yeah. So if you had a more falsifiable plan, something would be like, I know what this doesn't look like, now I have a fair more reference to what it does look like. Yeah, and we had a, my therapist that I was saying who was highly religious, and we talked about a story about, whatever it was, but he tried to tell me that that NASA had discovered a lost day in time. A what? A lost day in time. A what? Yeah. NASA, NASA discovered it. NASA discovered a lost day in time? Yeah, and they used the Bible to help them discover this lost day. Like a leap year? Yeah, like a computer programming glitch. So, oh, so like, somehow a day happened that nobody knew about? Yeah, like they couldn't calibrate their computers the right way for something. So they had to refer to the Bible. What? For a lost day in time when some Bible star can't read the characters. And your therapist said this? Yes, yes. He said, don't you know the Bible? What did his therapist say? Mother, bandwagon, he goes, I know, it was so funny. He goes, don't you know that NASA registered the Bible and the sun stops still in the sky? No way. And they lost a whole day and they once NASA registered it and put it together, then they were able to discover or back together this lost day time in their computers. No way. Okay. Didn't you know that was true? And then I remember walking out of my therapist's office thinking, I don't believe what you're saying. And I researched this and it was a snopes thing. That's huge. It didn't seem to me at all. Wow. And that's super faithful. That was one of them I was like, okay, if I've been holding out, this is definitely one of the major I'm done. I was like, I can't believe this is not and Aaron this is not real. This can't be proved true and I just don't I don't feel fulfilled to believe in this anymore. And that, did you find yourself with the atheist label as like, I can't help I need to find a way to describe my point of view what matches that agnostic, sure, actually the atheist kind of fits it. That was my experience. I don't know. It was just like I went down like a massive rabbit hole of you know talks on YouTube and podcasts and I was like you know what I think I really I was surprised that I identified with that. Like within the process of researching childhood as a spanking and realizing the atheist perspective sure that's kind of what started to like I mean like they get away from the religious side and maybe see what the atheist community or the agnostic community has to say about child development and discipline issues and not just like opened up the science and fields and like ooh basically like this conflicts with me as soon as you stepped out of this the religious perspective just give you more ideas as a kid no right but like there's definitely communities of atheists that seem to have a non-religious point of view with regards to religion it's more welcoming in the science research side reason-based it's like I'm looking at the evidence to see what is the best way to raise a kid and not one book yeah right yeah it's convoluted it is but you know what I do think is how to to know what we are and how to do something and because of that optimizing that method is gonna slow itself down cause there's no one really challenging but in a athiest perspective where it's anybody can believe anything else they want a sign along with and I don't believe in a dog you have a lot of different ideas clashing with each other and it tends to It's like, no, I don't know, if my kids like that, Mary's kids are pretty good. Yeah, exactly. It was just amazing because I come from a really strict authoritarian type of parenting background and the community around me is super religious. And they talk about my son going, oh, he's so old, hey, he's so awesome. And I'm like, you know, I've never had to spank him. And he's four. And I'm like, and I mean, every kid's different. Right. True. So like, my mom never spanked me. But she would let me stay home anytime I said I don't want to go to school. So like, anytime she's like, mom, I don't want to go to school. Stay home. And that put pressure on me. Like, maybe I should tell that to her because she's just going to be totally, she would sign papers for me ahead of time. Just like, turn on any time you don't want to go to school. Just give her the papers. Just know I signed out 10 of them. I got job. Do what you got to do. I'm like, I got to stay with school. I got my PhD. I stayed with it. But like, that kind of responsibility that she put on me kind of helped out a lot. And I think it's passed me. Yeah. That's not our kind of problem. Yeah. That's great. So good to meet you. Really great talking to you. Yeah. Yeah. And this is all I do. Now that's cool because I'm really important in an economy. Me too. I'm really excited. It'll be my first time. Yeah. We're going to be on a panel together with a bunch of other people too. Yeah. But yeah, it's going to be fun. It'll be my first kind of comment like that. I want to do like more workshops because sometimes I'm amazed how some of y'all, when y'all go out there and you make conversations with others, how like y'all are so cratically think like the next question. Mmm. Like sometimes I get a little stuck. I'm like, God, like, how's that conversation just turned so organically? Do you want to try that? Yeah. Okay. You got time? Yeah. Okay. The way how I think about it is... I gave this guy a fist bump already. Nice. I'm going to eat. I'll be right there with you. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I forgot that. I want to go to a burrito place before. I found the best way to do it is there's a thing that I believe. It's just what I call the conclusion and then there's me. Don't ask questions about me. Don't ask questions about the conclusion. Ask about how I arrived at the conclusion. That thread that connects it to is what I call the methodology. As long as you're asking questions about the method that someone used to reach a conclusion, they don't get defensive because they treat themselves in their conclusions as one thing and you'll get answers. It's like, well, I think it's like this. You might check for body language too. Yeah. As long as they're open and you're talking about the methodology, you can ask about whatever you want. I'm not going to try just like the afternoon or something like that. Yeah. You want to try that? Someday. Try it out. Try it out. Try it out. Okay. I'll come to you with a really, really non-religious belief. You want to do a non-religious one? Okay. Cool. Okay. All right. Go. I believe men are better than women. By the way, I'm Ty. Nice to meet you. Hi. I'm Bethany. Are you okay with this? I'm sure we'll be fine with it. All right. So how did you arrive to the conclusion that men are better than women? Well, I look at the job that I'm at, all my bosses are men. I look at like Olympics and sports and stuff. The strongest people are men. The sports that make the most money are full of men. It's pretty obvious that men are better than women. I don't, like, no one watches the WNW NBA. Then my bosses are women. Women aren't stronger than men. It's pretty obvious. Hmm. So when you say it's pretty obvious, is it possible or not? I don't have this information, but is it possible that I can show you, like, an athlete who's a woman who can do the same kind of sport as me, you know, that's just as equal or even better than a superior? Superior? Like in football? You're saying if you found a girl that can kick as far as a guy can? Yeah. Like, what if I could find somebody who could kick even better? Who could throw a football better than Tom Brady? Tom Brady? You mean NFL Jesus? If you could show me a girl like that, then yeah, I'd change my mind a little bit on that. What would you say were your confidence level on men being better? I'm 100%. 100%? 100%. No way I could be wrong. No way. No way. That's great. So, like, if I was able to show you a fevel equivalent of a Tom Brady, would you move down a little bit? She would have to be really good. You say if you show me someone who can win, I forgot how many titles he won. Like all the NFL rings. Like all the NFL rings and got all the sports trophies. I'm really great with sports, by the way. You got the sports ball trophy that they won at the end of the Super Bowl. It's like you won the sports ball trophy. If you show me a girl that could do that, I'd be like, okay. Maybe I'm just that one thing, but none of my bosses are still women. So I'd be like, yeah, but there's still a man signing her paycheck at the end of the day. What if, for example, I work at a company that's mostly female, and then we have a CEO who's, you know, the major credit union. A man? A woman. What? Yeah, she's a CEO. Did her husband die and she gave him the business? No. No. I don't understand that doesn't make any sense to me. So she, you know, she rose to the ranks and, you know, she used to be an attorney, but she's been part of this credit union and she's moved up from that lawyer type legal position to CEO. Okay, I'm not saying women can't do that, but I'm just saying men do it more. Like there's obviously more men bosses, right? Hmm. Well... There's more men in charge. Like you look at the presidents, like more men are in charge. You look anywhere. It's like that's a guy who probably owns a company or something like that. Does it necessarily mean, for example, like if just because there were more men in charge, does that mean that they're more competent or they have better abilities than, say, a woman? Does the abundance of men bosses or men in holding positions at, like, major companies, does that mean that they're more... Does that lay in credence to the fact that they are better than women? Just having the abundance? I'm just saying it's a good thing that they have. They're definitely stronger than women. They can lift more. So even if they're the same, you, like, think about it like this. If I have, like, a construction company and, like, all my women are bosses and I'm the only person that works there as a man, I'm going to be lifting everything. But if they're all men, they'll be like, hey, Bill, help me lift this thing. But can you help me lift this? And you'll be like, yeah, I think that company is going to last longer because you've got more people who are stronger there. And I think men are stronger. On average, the women, that's why I think they're better. Is it possible... You're doing good. Is it possible that women can demonstrate the same type of characteristics like if they were in a construction company that they could still just as be as helpful or just as strong? They would need to be trained. Probably by a man. But at least if they can do that, then I'm okay with that too. So maybe, I wouldn't say then 100%. I'd be like at least 99%. At least 99%. I still think we're stronger. I think we're better at the sports. I definitely think there's more bosses than men. But I'd be... I'm not as confident as I was at the start. But I'm still very confident. I'm still very confident. Hey, that's not bad. You hit all your points. Hey, that's not bad. Literally, that's all I've got to do. Okay, that's it? No, literally, because if you can just... It's like keep the conversation that direction, right? You leave on a positive note, and you just plant a seed or put a pebble, and then with that they have either enough momentum to change their own mind, because you can't change anyone's mind. You can't inform them to say, hey, maybe I need to change my mind on that. And I do almost guarantee you with a guy like that perspective, the next time he's asked those questions he'll either respond differently, which means he's thought about it. And going from absolute 100%, even 99.99999%, is massive, because you went from close-minded to practical middle. And that's all you want. Yeah, it's fun too. I kind of like that. It's fun, isn't it? Yeah, it makes you think. I even use it at my tech, that technique at work, which I remember to use people's names, and just be like, oh, huh. And then try to mirror and hear about what they say. Yeah, and it's a good thing that you did it where it's not like, well, you're wrong because of X. Yeah. Don't you know this? Yeah. You're asking only about the methodology. I felt really un-confrontational. Non-confrontational. Yeah, non-confrontational. Yeah. All right. That is so cool. Let's get some food. Yeah, let's go now.