 We had time for politics, I'm speaking to a politicue analyst, and The economist Beatrice Kairu, it's been a while since you had to, So much has happened Actually I was supposed to have Sairaz and something bad happened to him this morning I hope he will be well soon But now, Beatrice, what is your situation? Are you fine? You got lost Actually, I'm sure some people were like, kwa ni ule analista na kujanga skuizia kwa api? No, I'm sure. The comments are so many, we can't sometimes find others wa pokatikati, but I'm sure many were looking forward to you coming here again. But that is it, maybe. Shulet na fungulu alia? Yeah, finally, finally somebody realized. Covid-19 is rising again. I don't know who is playing, who, but Shulet na fungulu alia? I should say, but what is the recovery rate? Compared to... Yeah, it's still at 97 percent. No scientist has come to say that it's not 80 or 88. And we saw Donald Trump, the potters for the United States of America. He says he's recovering well and he's a 74-year-old man. Actually, he has recovered in one week. Exactly, and the people who are going back to school are young people. And we've seen the short studies that have been done, the cases of Covid-19 and the young ones, it's not as serious. In any case, any young person who has died from Covid had an underlying cause. So I think we didn't use science to close the schools. And neither are we using science to open the schools. So I don't see why somebody should come up to try and correlate with the number of cases in Covid-19. So since we didn't use science to close schools and now we are not also using science to open schools, I think let the children go back to school. And kids right now are even eager to go back because they are young active minds. And these young active minds must be engaged. So I kudos to Magoha. Even I know when the president was opening up the economy, he was saying the lives of children are more important than them going to school. But I big up to Magoha, who is also a medical doctor, for going ahead and insisting that they open schools. And I like his strategy. But do you think there was a challenge or there was a contradictory in how things happened? The president says the lives of the children matter. Then a week later, she was in a fungulu, and then kidoga has a fungulu, then it's in a fungulu. Do you think there was confusion? Yes, in terms of administrative and governance, but from an expert point of view, Magoha did based on his own analysis, which makes sense. If young people are not getting affected, then I don't see why we are scared. We didn't see young people falling down, even the one in the universities. Even when you look at various countries. Germany also opened their schools like a month or so ago. And other countries even in Africa, they've been in an open economy for the last since COVID was reported. So I think Magoha did his own analysis and that's the way we should do. We do an analysis, we weigh the options, and then we go ahead and execute. We can't be maktiming and doing a lot of politics. And these are the lives of children we are talking about. So, and I like their strategy. They decided to use the final years. That is from four, class eight and stand four, which will also be good to be able to even plan for the other candidates. Because you see now at least the form was a bit more mature than from once, the closet a bit more mature than the class four and then the class four are a bit the 10 year old. You see it's a very good study. Kohots is taken very good Kohots. So from this Kohots, what I would encourage the education sector to do is now observe and see. It's like this, it's a very good sample study, I would say. So from these sample study, now the government can make better plans. And the schools can also do their needs assessment and see where are they failing, where are they prospering. And then from that make now more comprehensive and then have a return to school formula for the other kids in schools. Yeah, but now I have seen here in the cities the students are going back to school from where I've come from. I met a number this morning. But I'm concerned with the persons from the fun flung places like the north eastern Kenya and maybe in the villages. With those kids go to school. Why not? There have been reports of floods. There have been reports of dilapidated schools where they're going back to where they'll be social distancing. Yes. Will it be an impartial application of the guidelines by the MOH? Exactly, so that's what I'm saying. First you have to make a declaration. Like now kids have to go back to school. So that's part one. Now part two, now they wait for kids to report. Then they assess why didn't these people not report to school, what were the challenges? And what can the government do about it? Actually I was telling one of my colleagues and saying that it's good COVID happened because now it's even exposing big time the education sector. At another level. Actually the healthcare sector progression when it comes to COVID-19 it does not actually affect in terms of healthcare sector whereby how will we run our healthcare sector. But the greatest challenge, the greatest sector with the greatest challenge right now is the education sector. This is where not even the return of businesses that is easy to do it. Not even the return of what is it called agriculture and anything. The greatest headache right now is the education sector not only in Kenya but worldwide. This is where now every institution is now trying to crack their heads on how do we ensure that school continues and why do I say that even in the universities courses like engineering, courses like nursing, courses like medicine. Some of these courses for you to qualify you have to do practicals. You cannot do online, you cannot just see a video and then you say this one now has graduated to be a competent nurse or this one has graduated to be a competent doctor right? So it means as much as people are now saying we can digitalize classes but there are some courses you cannot digitalize. And even the students themselves if it's biology practicals, chemistry practicals you cannot do online and are you sure that the kids have understood? Now something else we have to understand kids aged between the age of four to around the age of 18 years these are formative years and formative years you cannot say you'll do only online. Remember beyond school book there is also character development, social interaction which makes a human being. So by the time that child has reached the age of 18 years now 18 years in university you cannot do online because now it's almost toward now adulthood. But these other ages you cannot fully say they'll do online because they also developing and development is not only cognitive but also in social behavior which is also learned in school and shaped in school because do parents have the capacity to do homeschooling if people say now we are going to do online and homeschooling do as a middle income economy do even have that ability for two parents or one parent to stay at home and supervise the tutoring of kids at home. You see that's a very great challenge. So right now I think the government right now should be cracking their heads on how education post COVID will be. Alright, there was also another concern as we finish upon this education. Yes, yes. There was a concern of fee. You remember at Liamboa this is a near lost and parents when you know kakula fee while others were eating fare so was that the only kula fee. There has been a concern and I hear the government is kinder trying to come to solve that problem but what happens to the private sector. Exactly. So as again we have said part one is first people reporting and I think there is a time Maguha was saying even if you don't have school fees first bring your child. The next thing now the school should do is not do what I insist and I always insist let them do a needs assessment. So how many kids reported to school so how many have school fees how many don't have school fees and those who don't have school fees why? Is it because the parent ate the school fees? Is it because the parent lost a job? Is it because the parent lost a business? Ya because these are the challenges as much as people say jokingly that the parent ate school fees. Chances are majority lost their businesses their daily today earnings right? Some lost their jobs completely some companies close for good they are not opening again so there is a loss of job and to some extent prior covid unemployment rate was still very high in the country so we are looking at the financial strains not necessarily because parents ate school fees but also other factors like job loss like business losses that affected majority of Kenyans so now it's upon the government through that needs assessment and the funds that they get the funds that they have said they have set aside for education they should actually ensure that now they know where to prioritize remember now I am seeing most schools asking parents to ensure their kids have enough masks now I don't know maybe a box of 50 masks maybe it's right now it's going for 1000 shillings now this parent is not even able to buy uniform because kids about grown because remember people staying indoors they overfed so some have increased in girls and that is a factor mangas many Kenyans they felt they have really gained a lot of weight so Reminds me I've seen a video where a girl trying to fit in the uniform and that video going round it's trying to state what is happening on the ground so if uniform is a problem shoe size may increase is also a problem now you're also telling the same students to buy masks so that they can report to school why can't the government give masks to the schools KEMSA actually what is procured very many masks so what was KEMSA procuring it for was it only for hospitals now these are institutions so can we look for a way forward because I imagine those in the flood areas I wonder where are they getting their masks from you know think about most likely they may not be using them so it's right time the government because you want to enjoy I saw they came up with a very good report of covid protocols for schools that is one step but now to achieve that especially hand washing most schools didn't have soap in wash for using for washing pre covid the children didn't have soap to wash their hands in most public schools so right now I'm asking myself will the government also provide soap for these schools and for how long and for how long is sustainability number two hand sanitization points are they going to set up in the classrooms so apart from washing hands do you have a sanitizing point at every point are you seeing then the workers in the schools so will they be also going back to their homes and then coming back and interacting with the children these are many protocols they have to think about it so since camps are over procured and there is an excess amount of masks in storage then also the government should come up with a way of contributing distributing the same mask to the schools right and use that as a case study and see how kids will come back to school and if they come if they come I don't know I'm tempted to continue with this education it's okay it's okay yeah yeah it's very crucial education is crucial if the grade four and now the candidates have come yes and now we only have said one month so we are hoping the next classes they will resume come 2021 yes we don't know whether the numbers will have surge or not but if the numbers continue do you think these other group will have lost and is it fair for them no uh when it comes to learning you can't skip skills you can't skip uh teaching you can't it's like saying you you are going through medical school and you are told you can skip one practical of how to operate maybe a leg because then you graduate you'll you'll have half baked students so the curricula must be completed now I have my nephews who are crying atiyo atiyo atiyo atiyo atiyo atiyo atiyo atiyo atiyo atiyo atiyo they are 10 years they are 10 years they are afraid to go back I should say age is just but a number but um I think the resolution the education sector resolved these were candidates you see it was their final year they they have been trained for like three years if it's the ones in Klaze they have been trained for seven years the one who are doing the CBC in Klaze for they've been trained for three years so if they delay a little bit longer you see you'll be unlearning a lot of things so I think it was prudent and for me I like the idea of their return to school formula and starting with the candidate that was a very good good strategy I really recommend Professor Magoha for doing that so because they are the ones at the end makes sense so then they finish complete and get out of the system but no people are saying the ones who finish Klaze they need to join form one but that's a different story altogether because at least you have your certificate you can wait even that six months or one year but then join form one afresh but you won't go back to do an exam that you know you're taking nine years to have finished right so having said that then therefore what I believe that they are trying to do with these candidates they'll be able to assess in three months and remember the incubation period for COVID-19 is two weeks right so if these kids report back to school they'll observe for two weeks what happens are kids getting sick is there a surge they'll be able to trend and observe and I hope I really hope we have good intellectuals in the education sector they should not make us flop like the health experts did a very shoddy job and flopped the whole system because they were not ready they were not prepared they were not thinking outside the box they were just copy pasting I hope we have intellectuals in the education sector where they can sit down and use the research aspect and observe you see in research that is what you do observation you observe document and then do your analysis and see two weeks do we have surging do you have kids how kids behaving what is the behavior of these students they are able to observe that once they are able to do that and document then now we can lay out a plan do we involve now the sector from 3s and class 7s and class 3s you know you keep on you know in faces and then eventually we'll have all students back to school right so I think for Magoha having picked the finalist was a good idea actually even the university some of them that was the final years if it's something that could be done online and maybe you had finished with the practicals graduate and get out right then the ones and I like even what University of Nairobi was doing even for college of health sciences for those units that are actually doing practicals they decided what can be studied online let's give that that which was supposed to be done for practicals let it keep keep it aside so anything that is theoretical let the students be learning in the meantime which is good because that saves time then once we decide in a return to school formula then now we can begin on the practicals but you can't skip you cannot skip at yuhurumia people and they skip some curricula because you'll have half baked individuals and there'll be a ripple effect in the future you can imagine having a half baked engineer or a half baked doctor it's very catastrophic or a half baked pilot it's very catastrophic so there is no skipping people might rewind at some point yes but it can be carried for then and what will happen I think there is a time that time will lap and it will merge because we know so many people who graduates when they are 23 years old and you get a job five years later right so the kids should not feel that they are growing old because you can finish school at 19 and you get a job a good job at 30 so age is just but a number so that should not be something that should be worrying the student what should be worrying the student are they going to get quality education exactly now the ministry of education may have come up with protocols to protect our children from school but we have an issue with transportation we have the PSVs that are floating the guidelines that have been given yes the skill will be protected from the school but what about the transportation should we have another mechanism for taking these kids to school if you have to use a matatu especially he in Nairobi so what is happening is right now the protocols read by the government if you are entering a matatu you have to have your mask on you see now the parent has to ensure the child has a mask on that's why when they enter the vicinity of the school it's expected by the parent this means the child will be boarding the matatu with the parent no no no no the child even you board a matatu your mask is on because they are saying the basic principle at least have a mask on for preventive measures so the parent at home has to teach the child where your mask as you go to school so definitely where they'll alight because i'm thinking like a normal Kenyan where they'll alight they'll enter the gate of the school so it's expected by the protocols laid out by the ministry of education at the gate there's a hand washing point that's protocol number one number two there's someone with a thermometer at the gate right to take the temperatures of the children and i'm adding the education sector even at the classroom doors let them put hand sanitizers so apart from washing their hands there's also in case a child forgot to wash their hands or maybe wherever was inspecting of a looked at least by the time they enter the classroom there's a hand sanitizing point so already by that preventive measures have been you've intercepted the spread of the disease in itself from a public health point of view and by the time now they go home remember by the time they are now exiting they are also wearing their masks again by the time they enter their home it's now the duty of the parent to insist they wash their hands because the basic principle is the mask washing of hands that there is no other huge protocol beyond that you get because definitely in between there will be no social distancing because even we can see even by our own politicians in their own rally there is no social distancing but those basic principles of masks and hand washing should be ensured and I'm grateful that at least this condition is not affecting the young ones that is what most governments are riding on even in the west they are riding on that basic fact that it's not affecting the young ones otherwise it would have been more catastrophic and bigger but now someone would say the young ones might bring the condition to the parents at home but if you are intercepting by washing of hands and sanitizing then very very few cases will be experienced what you said it's quite true to some extent because I know kids are witty sometimes especially our Kenyans and especially the use of masks if a kinga kwa matawna yawatua na mask and maybe they may think of dropping the guard but anyway let's finish up we have about 10 minutes now let's do are you comfortable with the kind of leadership we are seeing in the country so far now we're moving into politics are you happy how things are happening you just mentioned of the rallies that have been going on we have seen people losing their lives we have seen others being bad from having meetings others they have so there is an impansion of application of the guidelines but are you comfortable for us having this kind of rallies two years before the elections it's not supposed to be the case because this was the high time there will be a lot of reflection from the government aspect you see it exposed the healthcare sector it exposed the education sector it has exposed the finance sector remember it's the small businesses that make the economy grow in any country it's not the big corporations that make the economy grow it's a small businesses that from an economist point of view is the small businesses that makes an economy grow because it's exchange of money there is growth small industries that is what makes an economy grow to a huge economy now right now we've seen the small businesses have been crushed they're dead the healthcare system has been bared open right doctors are now striking right and left and center and then now the education sector has been left this was the time the government should be seated thinking and reflecting where we have been exposed what we do and resolve these issues but now instead of our leaders sitting down and thinking because we I think we lack leaders who can't think I think we just have people who just make noise make noise they're like dogs just backing backing backing they don't sit down and think and reflect and say this thing has exposed us this is the high time the way Kamsa was exposed in the tender premium energy they need to rethink on procurement protocols how do they come such kind of of corruption in government institution when it comes to procuring this should have been the time to ask these questions the members of parliament the senators sitting in government these are the questions they should be really be discussing and looking for a way forward and setting protocols or now to ensure next time they're not exposed right now they'll be thinking of how do they digitalize learning for the students in this country right this is the high time they should be thinking about that but they all they're thinking about is a bbi to create positions which will not even help Kenyans in any way because it's not bringing development right right now they should be asking themselves in those flooded areas how do those people reach the school do we introduce both do we introduce canals and whatever right now they should be thinking about environmental policies to inhibit such occurrence in the future because it's affecting small traders right instead of them thinking about that we are thinking of stupid things like prime minister position deputy prime minister positions right and I am glad that Kenyans are waking and I hope I hope I really hope that when that report comes out I am urging all Kenyans they should sit down critically and read about it read let them not be lured by their leaders because it's apparent we our leaders don't don't think they don't think now over the weekend we had prayers and at the end of it all the president was not supposed to speak according to the people who were there but when he spoke I think there's so much we can gather from his statement and he spoke like the late former president Daniel Moye when he spoke about forgiveness and at the time maybe from the eyes of many and from the political angle saying I am forgiving everyone and if I have wronged you forgive me it has been heated time with him and the deputy president now do you think there was a political meaning to those particular statements for me how I perceive it I'll speak on my own opinion I think the president can start has started feeling the temperatures he's seeing how the citizens are you remember I'll take you back in the year 2013 when now Kibaki was about to finish his term and and it's every leader you see like Moye in 2002 it's every leader's wish that he leaves someone who can carry on either his legacy or he assures he assures himself that the presidency the citizens have been left in good hands which is a good thing about a leader because as a leader you should mentor somebody whom you can leave your legacy you see I wish Mwangare Matae had left her legacy to Ayanga or Mwangare Matae in this country to carry on their legacy activism in terms of environment and everything because once a leader dies they die with their legacy that's a problem in Africa when a leader dies they die with their legacy and never to be heard of but when you look at developed societies it has been ingrained in them when you're a leader you try and spruce up somebody else who will in term carry on your legacy so even when you die there's another Martin Luther King Jr continuing the legacy but we find it in our African setting it's killed it's usually killed many times there's no continuity so you find another leader coming in they have to start again afresh instead of a continuity so President Kibaki in the year 2013 when he was now living government around 2012 he felt that he needs to leave the country in the hands of of an ebolida and he was easily inclined towards Musalia Mudavadi that was one of the greatest choices of Muai Kibaki but people won't even told him no no no no allow the citizens to choose whoever they want don't mendle it into it finish your legacy go home and you can see during that time there was no much tension with Kibaki everybody was just allowing him to to just finish up and nobody bothered so much but now when you look at Uhuru Kenyatta's legacy now there is that you remember politics is about perception so there is now an insinuated perception that there is a way that who wants to continue in leadership even after he has left the presidency now that what has happened it has agitated the populace because remember right now his rating and his favor with the Kenyan populace has really gone way way way way down and even covid in itself has really exposed so many things in that government so now I think Uhuru during that interfaith prayers which sometimes I really wonder why we mix politics and religion but anyway wherever politics is religion follows closely we can look at Islamic states they have for any strong society there must be a strong belief there must be a strong religious belief somebody may say China has no Christianity but China have a belief system that culture of there whether they worship a dragon or they worship a snake they have a belief system the same thing in the West every community any stable community has to have a belief system or a deity they pray to that is kita that is indisputable I don't see any any any state or any country that is stable without a belief even those who are agist it's still a belief system if you eat Scientology you believe in science that's still a belief system so having gone to that interfaith he has sensed the pressure and remember prayer to that interfaith prayer there was a sakazi in Moranga you see now those are political temperatures brewing up and remember you don't want to live as a leader and deaths are on your neck people saying you you made so many people die because of you because remember even the 2007 political violence there are people who still blame kibaki because of it right so Uru is also trying to ensure that he doesn't get that maki into it so I think I hope he's soon realizing that he just needs to finish his term as a president try in the next two years to do as much as possible now it's not even two years almost like a year because most likely 2022 elections will be around April or August so he should try in the next one year at least to do something for the citizens and try and what is it called? clean up his legacy a little bit so that come the year 2022 he lives in peace because this country is does not belong to individuals you are alive today tomorrow you are dead so the best thing you can put is better policy better institutions that can out leave you in years and years to come all right thank you so much apparently we are out of time but at least we have tried to demystify some of the things that maybe are difficult to understand especially in politics thank you so much for being part of us we'll be coming up again after this short break with discussion on career choices you know you're at a point where you're like where do I go next from here what is the best thing that I can do how do I realize myself that interview is coming up in a bit she has been my guest Beatrice Cairo political analyst and health economist and my name is Dereva Hillary have you yourself a very good morning even as you wait to come back with another discussion keep it on your mind for good morning