 Oh, now it's started. Sorry, I'm just a little antsy. Don't worry. You've been doing this a long time, Raj. You'll be fine. Where's your office now, Belmont? Downtown, Union Square. Oh, sweet. Yeah, although I have to swim upstream of all the tourists every day, so that's fun. Yeah. Swimming upstream. Down there, maybe like a month and a half ago, Ashley and I kind of found ourselves down in that area, and it was really cool because I realized that I'd been to Union Square a million times because that was a go-game zone. I had never really spent any time at all when I wasn't working. I didn't have a very specific kind of schedule, so it was like all these little bars or places that I would see and I'd be like, oh yeah, I'd like to go there and I'd never went. I've lived here for like five years and I'd never gone to any of them because I was just walking by and I was like, oh, that seems fun. I guess I'll never do that because I'm going to run this game. Honestly, it's pretty funny. It's very touristy and I wouldn't recommend most of the places in general, but the bars are on point. There are some great bars because they all cater to the after hours kind of crowd. So yeah, Pagan Idol is one that I haven't hit up yet. It's a new Tiki bar. What? You've been to that one? Oh really, you have been? I went there for Graham, not Graham Norden. Graham Hancock's Earth Day or something. How does it compare to Smuggler's Cove? I like Smuggler's Cove because it feels more... The thing about, crap, what's the name of the bar? Pagan Idol. Is it's a little too new and so it feels new? It's like the decor. Smuggler's Cove feels like it's been around the block. What if it smells like I could actually buy an illegal machine gun? I really like Smuggler. It's got a little bit of like, they might actually be selling heroin out of the bag. They may actually be smuggling things. There's no name on the door. That's my jam. Pagan's Idol feels a little too new, clean. Maybe it just needs several hundred rounds of people to come in and out to get that weathered bar feel. Totally. We should do a happy hour, V. Absolutely. Go down there. Come on down. Yeah, alright. Do a podcast? Oh wait, hold on, we have to do it in two minutes. You have to wait? Why do we have to wait? Tom starts early. Tom lets me start the show early. Alright, alright, hold on. I'm just making sure everything works. Yeah, totally. You're comfortable. YouTube is live. Yeah, that's right. Audio. I did this crazy yoga class on Saturday and my legs are so sore now that I have to actually physically lift them to move them. I can't engage the muscles on the tops of my legs. I have to lift them up with my hands. You're like a puppet. Basically. You're just kind of dangling and you can just move your heart. Yeah. It was, I had to kick my feet so imagine this is my body. I had to kick my feet up in the air for like 10 minutes. Oh my God. That was like part of, you just power through and you use your rage and anger. Are you trying to get 40 time up for the combine? Like what the hell? I only know what the combine is from watching ballers by the way. Everything I know about football is from watching ballers. Oh wait. How is, is ballers not terrible? I love it. No, it's one of my favorites. Really? Yeah, it's good. I've heard it was bad like from people that are like Miami people that are predisposed to love it because of Miami and they're like, no, they'll kind of like, it's like late season entourage. Well, I'm predisposed to like anything with the rock in it. So. I mean, listen, we have, we have our first time to have a conversation then at Pagan Idol happy hour. Because. There we go. Put it on the agenda. For sure. Oh, two minutes. One minute. Bird noise. All right. I guess it's two minutes. It's a two minute delay. What do you mean a two minute delay? Oh, for AGR. Oh. I mean, listen, you can't always AGR what you want. You just might find you get AGR. You get a two minute delay on AGR. You get a two minute time delay on AGR. All right. Are we ready? Hey, I'm going to disappear and make sure we have the music. All right. Year. Mm-hmm. Daily tech news show is powered by its audience and not outside organizations. To find out more, head to dailytechnewshow.com slash support. This is the Daily Tech News for Monday, August 29, 2016. I'm Justin Robert Young filling in for a vacationing Tom Merritt in Tokyo, Japan. But joining me is your normal Monday co-host. Welcome, Veronica Belmont. Welcome as the co-host, Justin, on Monday. How does it feel being here on a different day of the week? You know, it definitely threw my schedule into a bit of a panic. Definitely double booked like three different things. But I was happy, happy, happy to fill in here for the show. And we got some really, really cool stuff to talk about, including the fact that the Verge-rewarded Apple is holding its next big event, September 7th. Invitations were sent out this morning simply saying, see you on the 7th. But here are some other top stories as well. According to Vanity Fair, a memo was sent to DNC staffers with instructions on how to install and use the encrypted messaging signal, or app signal, two weeks after hacked DNC emails were published on WikiLeaks. Staffers were told that if anybody was going to communicate about RNC candidate Donald Trump, in case you were confused with some of the other Donald Trumps running around over the next few days, it was imperative that they instead used the end-to-end encryption of signal. Of course, this story getting quite a bit of play today, because they referred to it as Snowden Approved. What do you think about that, Belmont? I think they should have been using an end-to-end encrypted chat platform from the very beginning. I think as soon as they learned there was something called end-to-end encryption that protected conversations and text conversations in particular. They should have been using that in the first place. Well, it does kind of bring up one interesting element, because this is obviously in the news now, because you can put Edward Snowden, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in a headline and have it not be completely nonsense. But this is part of a growing, dawning understanding that, yeah, no, end-to-end encryption has a place. It's not just there for people who want to do dirty deals and not have the law peeking in. Exactly. And I think that is a hugely, a very, very common misconception going around, not just in the tech community, probably, but in the community at large. I mean, you hear encryption, you assume you have something to hide. And sometimes the only thing you have to hide is actual legitimate conversations about stuff that you don't want getting into the hands of other people, or sometimes more nefarious things. The DNC is not without fault in this instance. But for sure, I feel like we have to kind of assume that everything we put into writing these days is going to be either made public or seen by the wrong eyes at some point. I think that's an assumption a lot of us are just making now. It is important to understand in the context of this as a political story is that they're saying if you're going to communicate about Donald Trump, then use this app because what they got burnt for was them talking about Bernie Sanders during the primary process. So now, obviously, they are not doing internal conversations that could impart favoritism, but rather who they have on the other side of the aisle. A flash alert bulletin from the FBI's Cyber Division disclosed evidence that foreign hackers penetrated the voter databases of Arizona and Illinois in recent weeks, warning election officials to enhance computer security. The FBI bulletin listed eight separate IP addresses that were the sources of the two attacks, noting that one of the IP addresses was used in both intrusions and use widely available penetration testing tools. Here we go. There's another one. This is our, maybe we got our putting two pack of the government needs to get better of encryption in general, right? I mean this is a similar story. There's no reason why something that is as precious as voter databases and voting in general could be imperiled with something that could easily be cracked and do by widely available penetration tools. I know. I think it's, we'd like to assume that the government is a little more secure, but as it turns out, it's not. In an e-marketer report, Snapchat Director of Revenue Operations, Clemente Zhu revealed that they would be rolling out behavioral targeting capabilities in the third quarter of 2016. Man, right around the corner. The behavioral data will be based on the user's activity inside of the app, although this insider speculates that it could change in the future. Specifically, a business insider believes that this could get even more granular than just saying, well, you look at ESPN's discoverability features and you are following other basketball people so we want to be able to sort you out to advertisers. This seems to me though, Veronica, to be a bit of a fork in the road for Snapchat. Quitter on one hand has never really been able to figure out exactly how to generate the kind of revenue that would make profit, whereas Facebook has. We are both Snapchat users and Snapchat friends. Do you think Snapchat is better positioned to integrate advertising than let's say Twitter was? I do think so. I think there's a lot of the elements of surprise and delight that goes into Snapchat that makes it a little more palatable. I have used sponsored filters in Snapchat time and time again just because they're fun. That sounds like a really kind of silly response, but at the same time, if they can be courting sponsorships in creative and interesting new ways, I think that's really good for them. I have actually been not using Snapchat because of the racist filter situation that happened a while back and they're ongoing. They really need to fix some issues they have over there and I've been testing out Instagram stories feature, which I like, but I miss Snapchat. I miss the good filters and it kind of breaks my heart a little bit, but I do think they have a pretty good take on the advertising model. Plus they also have location data, which all the other apps still do have as well, but they can maybe target based on the user's location as well a lot more specifically. It seems a little weird, but ever since they did the story feature on Snapchat, I feel like I don't care about advertising from them much. All of a sudden it'll be friend, friend, friend, tied, friend, friend, friend, and considering how let's say kindly incremental the updates can be from your friends on Snapchat, a tied commercial doesn't necessarily seem like it's a waste of time compared to what I'm normally seeing on there and I don't mean that in a negative way. It just seems like it is built for and you made a really good point. If all of a sudden I'm looking through my Snapchat and someplace right around the corner says, oh by the way, this is not only here for you in general, but it's here for you right around the corner, I think that is very interesting. Let me ask you this. So when does your Snapchat suspension end? How long have you put Snapchat in the penalty box because of the release's filter? I haven't decided yet. I mean they haven't really come out and said that they're actively trying to fix it or have a process in place for not letting that kind of thing slip through the cracks anymore. So I don't know if I really have an idea of when that's going to happen. But yeah, I agree. One thing I do like about the ads or the sponsored content in Snapchat is that it's still instantly skippable, which I think just in the grand scheme of things, you're still going to get a lot of eyeballs on it even if a large percentage of those content is skipping that content just by the sheer user-based numbers. And one more thing about the Snapchat issue, especially when you talk about their controversies, because it's not a viral platform, a controversy about Snapchat can't really blow up on Snapchat. People can't know about it, but it's gone in a day. It's not like you're going to have one tweet or a Facebook post that then lingers around for days and months in the future so I can see where they put themselves in a little bit of a secluded circle to say, oh, I don't know. Sure, people were upset about it for a day, but I don't think it's the end of the world. That's a very good point I hadn't thought about, vaguely depressing as well. Mac Rumors reports that according to the Financial Times, the European Commission will rule tomorrow that Apple received illegal state aid from Ireland. The Commission will ask Ireland to raise a new tax assessment against Apple, meaning the company could owe what J.P. Morgan estimates to be up to 19 billion euros in back taxes. EU competition commissioner, Margarith Vestigar? I think that's good. Sure, we'll provide the actual amount tomorrow. Margarith, Margarith, Margarith Vestigar. Man, now that is somebody that would be the protagonist of a book you guys would review on Apple's current laser. This obviously leading back to the fact that Apple has had elements of their wealth in Ireland. The fact that they have used Ireland from what some have said, and now it seems like the competition committee agrees was a bit of a tax haven for the company has been a little controversial. Although, from Apple's point of view, they've said they wanted to bring money back to the United States, but it is a prohibitively expensive thing to do. You've got to wonder if now this is not a free ride for them anymore, whether or not that seems like more of a cost-effective solution. That's a lot of money. 19 billion euro, that's a lot of money. Yeah, no, it certainly is. And man, from somebody planning a vacation to the UK, I would like to have just a fraction. Just a billion, just a quarter billion, quarter billion euros, help me out. Are you pulling a Kanye right now? Are you just legit asking companies for money? All right, real quick, and I know this is something that Tom would never do. Can Kanye just perform? I don't think we need the yearly state of the Kanye address sponsored by MTV. Go and perform, he just put out a great album. The FAA's rules on commercial drones come into effect today. Operators must keep their drones within visual line of sight and fly only during the day. Permitted if the drone has anti-collision lights, no flights higher than 400 feet above the ground, nor over people who are not directly participating. Maximum speed is 100 miles an hour and drones can carry packages as long as the combined weight of the drone and the load is less than 55 pounds. Waivers are available for those who need to fly outside of those restrictions. So, certainly not exactly everything that drone folk wanted, but at least it seems like we are moving inch by inch closer to common sense drone regulation. I mean, I think all of these make very good sense. I'm curious how they arrived at the 55 pound number, because that still seems like if a drone and a package were 55 pounds, that could still hurt if it fell on you. Yeah, I mean, certainly if it was a surprise, right, you know, maybe that's just like the smallest anvil that you would see in like an acme anvil in a cartoon. It only comes at 55 pounds. I know people were making like a big, big stink about this when these were initially proposed, but I strongly believe that there have to be some regulations in place. It just doesn't make sense to not, especially with the number of issues from drones flying near wildfires, for example, and potentially like getting in the way of firefighting helicopters, and there's just a lot of potential issues that can happen by not following these very basic regulations. So, I'm frankly pretty happy they're in place. Yeah, I mean, I think the question is not that drone enthusiasts don't want to be regulating. I think it's more that let's just move it forward. Let's go and let's get these things out here so we can talk about them, we can see in real time so people aren't breaking the law whether or not these make sense, if they can be expanded, if they need to be retracted, let's just get them out there instead of talking about it and putting it in subcommittee after subcommittee after holding pattern after holding pattern. Exactly. Next up, in response to the Facebook measures to activate security safety check rather for emergency situations, at a town hall at Louis University in Rome, an audience member asked, will users be able to activate it on their own? Which Zuckerberg confirmed. Yes, we're working on that already. He added, quote, the next thing we need to do is make it so that communities can trigger it themselves when there is some disaster. Venture Beat Notes Facebook activated the check following the massive earthquake in Italy last week. So I wonder whether or not opening this up and we're going to get into a story that involves Facebook kind of making some larger top-down decisions and what their role should be in communicating with its user base. But whether or not turning this over specifically is just to initiate something and maybe if they get enough people saying no, I want to turn on my safety check whether or not Facebook has put out there that okay, this is about this earthquake can then help them find emergencies that they should be marking or whether or not this is more of an ad hoc situation where if the bear gets loose down in a small town whether or not that's something that they want to open up, something that would never really bubble up on their radar because the population centers are not big enough. I like the idea of setting off essentially flags that would alert Facebook to the fact that something is going on but that still might not even happen quickly enough. I'm very torn with the idea of not wanting to kind of cause false concern if something isn't actually happening or if someone does it by accident or if someone does it maliciously versus having the kind of response time in place that actually would help fix some kind of alert people to a situation happening and letting their families and loved ones know that they're okay. I guess my biggest question with this is safety check for your neighbor or is it for your on to lives across the country or the world because if it's for that, if it's for the second layer then only having specific things that like you want your aunt to be okay if there's a forest fire near where she knows where you live, right? Not necessarily the person who's next to you because you'll be able to tell them in other ways oh my god there's a forest fire we need to leave. Are you okay? I'm okay. I'm okay right now hold on let me check in on safety check and not to make light of it because I think that these are important but I guess I'm curious to know what Facebook thinks the intended audience of the and finally opera is warning users that it has uncovered an attack on its sync system possibly giving up login details although all synced passwords are encrypted opera is resetting all synced account passwords and recommends that users change any linked third party passwords just in case roughly 1.7 million of the 350 million users take advantage of opera sync. That's pretty frightening because I think a lot of people consider opera to be a pretty secure browser. I guess this kind of goes into our common theme of nothing is safe anymore. Nothing is safe and the wolves come for us all. Thanks to Hobbitraula Condulci, refused to speak Jeff Rose and TM204 and all those who participate in our subreddit submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow. reddit.com and now to our discussion story course reports that multiple sources said Facebook laid off its entire trending team editorial staff at 4pm Friday classic corporate training. The 15 to 18 people were contractors hired through a third party in a press release by Facebook. The company has said that the descriptions for trending topics will be automated and now no longer require people to write them. Story topics will now be simplified topic headlines followed by the number of people talking about the story. A little background on this specific team in case you forget this was quite a controversial group Gawker, remember them? They broke a story about how with quotes from inside this team saying that they routinely suppressed conservative news that led to an emergency meeting with Mark Zuckerberg and various conservative media leaders including those from Glenn Beck's The Blaze including Glenn Beck himself, CNN and Breitbart. Veronica do you think that this represents any kind of material loss to Facebook? I think it definitely it's making a strong statement. It's saying now you know we are trying to be as unbiased as possible this is what they're saying publicly we're using bots essentially we're using an algorithm to decide what things float to the top and using that same system in place to write a very small blurb about what that story means. So of course when you have technology that can do that you don't necessarily need people to do that. The other side of the coin however is that someone is still programming the algorithm someone is still creating the technology that's picking the stories and it's almost impossible to do that without some kind of inherent bias in place. So I still don't think it's a perfect solution but maybe a step in the right direction I just know that you know when you're writing language for bots or when you're writing creating algorithms like this it still has to wait certain values. So I don't know if we're going to be totally free of bias even in this scenario. So then let's noodle on that for a second because part of what the issue with the initial story was is that you had these 15 to 18 people in a warehouse somewhere in New York City right. They felt isolated there's a reason why they wound up going off to journalists and talking about things because they wanted to embarrass the parent company that they felt cut away from. So it's really not a shock that these guys are getting axed considering the fact that they went outside the tent and pitched to another publication about it. But what their point was was that it's not like they were being particularly like oh we got to keep conservative news down. They had an institutional bias against conservative sources because they had their own political leanings and they felt that sites like the blaze and bright part just for examples were not as credible as let's say the New York Times or other sites that people would assume or can assume have a liberal bias or that certain threads of thought just did not have the merit to make the trending list. So they were looking at a list of things that were organically trending and then saying well yeah well we need to have that okay yes yes yes yes yes that doesn't make sense and that would be harmful if that was on the sidebar or things that were not there organically they would say oh no but a lot of people are talking about this it would be bad for us if this did not show up on our trending topic list. So let's organically put it up there. I'm saying that bots can have the same exact biases as the people that were making these fairly simple decisions. I mean it can certainly be a lot better but then we have to take into account Facebook being a business and Facebook has to decide well if I recognize that this person on Facebook is inherently liberal for example based on their previous choices and reading if I start posting links to bright part for example that user is probably going to be annoyed. So how do you find that balance between wanting to expose them to non-bias content or to give them the full spectrum of available content versus choosing the kinds of things that they might find offensive in some way and not want to read and therefore not click on those links. So it's kind of a confusing situation and I certainly don't know what the right answer is. Does Facebook have a role in news? Like what if they just wash their hands of all of this and said you want to know what? Get your news from your crazy aunt we made her so nice earlier in the example about safety check now we're going to reveal that she's crazy you can get your news there we don't care we're here to connect we're not necessarily here to inform or educate. That'd be great. So you think that that's a better position for them is to be more hands-off? I would say more hands-off would be better. If they did without the trending topics like in one hand sometimes I find things that my friends and family aren't talking about and that could be good but at the same time I'm not really there to read world news I'm there to share with friends and chat with friends maybe I'm an edge case I don't know but I think that perhaps they should maybe not be in the business of deciding what content people see. Or just make it all whatever Kylie Jenner said and I think that that's 90% of what it is anyway and they might as well just have it be a rotating Kylie Jenner said what sidebar I mean listen just my two cents Perfect. Now to some messages of the day on last Friday's episode we talked about VR's potential impact on eSports Peter wrote in to point out that Valve also has an in-game VR spectating demonstration at the international in July so more than just silver are working on this type of spectator mode. Thank you to Peter for the heads up. Of course you can always email us feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com That's about it for us today Veronica thank you so much for shepherding me through as I try to muck around You did a very good job and I think people are going to be mad at me for some of my comments about Facebook but that's fine just take it to the internet don't take it out on Justin or Tom he's not there to protect us anymore No you want to know what take it to Snapchat because it's going to be gone in 24 hours Perfect. Is there anything else that you want to get out there? Not really at Veronica on Twitter at TryGrobot for my company's Twitter account that I'm currently managing and at Sword & Laser if you like sci-fi fantasy Awesome. Alright we want to thank everybody who supports the show on our Patreon you can do it there or through many other factors DailyTechNewsShow.com Remember to thank a boss buy a mug tell a friend Patreon.com If you just won the headlines of the day in less than 10 minutes you can subscribe to DailyTech headlines at DailyTechHeadlines.com but until next time my name is Justin Robert Young filling in for a vacationing Tom Merritt if you find him in Tokyo give him a high five we will see you tomorrow Simon Club hopes you have enjoyed this rover We're out Man I just heard about Gene Wilder What? No! Yes! Sad 83 You know what? He had a good run He had a good run He's so great I remember listening to an interview once there was a director who did a bunch of Disney movies like recent ones like in the last like 10 or 15 years but he used to be Gene Wilder's assistant and was talking about how it was like the most boring assistant job on the planet because they would just send him all these scripts and he would just say no to all of them but he still wanted an assistant to do odds and ends and stuff like that but he got so many scripts that were basically just another version of movies that he made that he never really went out there and did anything because he didn't want to do anything that was a retread on something he'd done before which is kind of amazing considering like that's all he normally does, especially actors of his generation because there were so many opportunities Yeah, wow It's very sad Yeah, no, Mega said Wow, it was diagnosed with lymphoma in 89 Yeah, it's just from complications from Alzheimer's I mean that's that's he had a, that is a good run for someone with lymphoma I mean 1989, like 1989 Yeah, 1989 I mean, jeez what can you say? Listen, the guy was a muse for Mel Brooks, he's my favorite director and writer of all time, he was able to stand up as a comedic partner to Richard Pryor you know, there's really not a whole lot that he couldn't do comedically I hate to change the topics 2016, man Show titles Common Sense Kanye reform is pretty funny Well, what about politics make strange snow no, Snowden Fellows The safety check dance hacking the election I think that's really funny Is that Duke Alice? Which one? The safety check dance Oh, yeah Politics make strange Snowden Fellows I kind of like Snowden Snowden approved, I feel like is kind of on the nose that's a direct quote, I kind of like that Snowden approved You know, I if he ever makes it back to the US and gets acquitted or whatever, he could totally have a career as like kind of a billy maze for software security You know, I kind of wonder whether or not you know, there's always those things at the end of a presidency where there's like all those super questionable like pardons What happened? You mean like four pardoning Nixon? Well, I mean, that was kind of a fate of complete when he got the gig That was part of getting Nixon off the stage But in general, like Clinton did and Bush did Whenever you're at the end you just pay off basically a bunch of money that you'd gotten on the way there by pardoning a few people that somebody who really really gave you a bunch of cash is obsessed about I would not be shocked if probably not Obama because it happened on Obama's term but at some point Snowden just got the pardon The problem is he hasn't been he hasn't been formally like he hasn't formally gone through the process Thanks Veronica, thanks I'll see you later, bye Alright Justin So I'm going with Snowden approved Snowden approved Snowden approved And you have the audio of just the show, right? I do It starts at the beginning Audience and not outside organizations And then you stopped it right at the end Perfect You can either upload it or you can send it to me I'm going to send it to you It probably needs to run through level 8 Yes, I can do all that If you want to send it to me through Does Slack do that? I think Slack It has a Slack it to me Unless it has a size limit Oh, does it? I mean, it's in the gigabytes, isn't it? I mean, how big is that file? I don't know Let's see Should be like 500 Crap, you want to know what? I bumped Hotline Monday I guess if I was a real I was a real masochist, I probably could still do Hotline Monday But that is now Out of the question Slack it to me 20 terabytes You did a great job Thank you so much Saving everyone's bacon You are on Next week Because you're actually traveling the rest of this week Yeah Thursday Thursday we are off to DragonCon I really like that event It's just in a location that's very expensive and awkward for me to get to Yeah I didn't want to bring it up with Veronica because it's so sad that she's not going I love it I love being in the south on Labor Day I love Atlanta I love everybody that's able to get there But it is definitely a little bit of a bummer when it loses critical mass when everybody's not going Oh yeah, yeah, yeah Exponentially All of a sudden the stress to get there becomes more visual when everybody you know isn't going to be there It is It's so funny because I originally started going to conventions like comic books, sci-fi, whatever It was just to go see things but I met a bunch of people and I kept running into them and so it became more of a ritual to go meet people I needed an excuse to meet because we don't live next to each other Hey, we'll meet each other in San Diego or hey, we'll meet each other in Atlanta But as you get older and you get more responsibilities especially when you have a child it's a little more complicated to get things like that done but the thing I really I really I kind of was always annoyed with about Atlanta is that like downtown Atlanta does not have anything great to eat Oh no food is food is legitimately garbage like like maybe the best even like southern food is pitypats porch and that's like good but it's like you can definitely get better food just a little bit outside of that downtown area there's actually there's a good restaurant that Ashley and I found and I don't even want to say where it is because I do not want it to get more popular and have the kitchen get slammed like everything else does it was the most disappointing thing because like I would think like it's a south it would be like really good food and someone told me it's like I had to get anything really decent you have to go to the outskirts of the city or the suburbs outside of Atlanta Yeah, I mean that's the problem is that Atlanta's not you know Atlanta's not Miami where there's like a cultural center and then everything else radiates right Atlanta's a lot more like Charlotte where a lot of the neighborhoods are cool around it and downtown is primarily for business and so you are you're taking over a place that's primarily for business which is kind of a bummer because there is not like all like the really cool restaurant that gets made because people are really into it and they want to work hard like they don't have the money to have it there, you know I'm gonna stop you right there just a little bit thanks everyone for watching we'll see you tomorrow with Patrick Beja and hopefully Jeff Conata if he doesn't have to render the hospital. Alright, thank you very much stop in the broadcast now