 Well, welcome everybody to the Wednesday weekly webinar. Today's speaker is going to be Clifford Hall with NDSU Slant Sciences. But first off, I'm going to go through a few reminders that Julie has asked me to do. Of course, we'll have two more or three more after today. Next week will be Julie and then one more on April 20th. And then on the 27th, we've got today's speaker Cliff Hall and Julie again. We'll be dual presenting on our final one, April 27th. So also a reminder that we're archiving all these to YouTube. You can find those archives on the Field to Fork website. Or if you just went to YouTube and searched NDSU Extension, you can find all our videos listed there and find the Field to Fork ones listed there as well. If you have questions, go ahead and type them down there in the chat area, which is number five here on the screen, the lower left-hand corner. You just type in a big open white rectangular box and hit Enter. Cliff will see the questions that pop up and hopefully he'll catch a few during the session if you have one that you want him to answer while he's speaking. And then of course at the end, we'll be a good time to throw a bunch more questions at him and see if we can keep him for a couple extra hours. And finally, Julie always wants to have you do the survey. Please fill out the survey at the end of the webinar. I believe she said you guys get an email sent to you, but I'll also throw that down the chat area so you can click on it when it's over. For those that need to get some continued ad credit that she said after the survey, you do get sent to a site where you can print off the certificate, I believe. And she's also a choosing random people to give prizes to for those that fill out the survey. So definitely some reasons to do that survey afterwards. As we've done to today's topic, it's Farm to Market, Safe Food Handling During Processing and Selling Local Foods. And as I said, our speaker is Clifford Hall. Dr. Hall is currently a professor in the serial and food sciences programs in the plant sciences department at North Dakota State University. He oversees research on pulse quality and utilization of pulses in food systems and oversees the annual US Pulse Quality Survey. He has taught 80 courses at IDSU since 2006 and has advised 11 PhD students and 12 master students. He has also mentored over 30 undergraduate researchers and has served on over 30 graduate student committees. His primary research areas include the utilization of non-traditional crops in food products. And so now it's time to pass over to Dr. Hall. Go ahead. All right. Thank you, Scott. It's a privilege to be able to present this topic area. Julie and I have worked for many years kind of at this food safety level, at the food processing level. Since that's my expertise area, I feel comfortable talking with that so when she asked me to do it, I said I would help her out. So keep in mind that with some of the information I provide today, I will direct your attention to some of the information provided at the North Dakota Department of Health. So that will be a resource that you can direct anybody asking questions to. Also, in a few weeks, I will, along with Julie, be discussing more information about kind of the processing aspects of that food system. So with today's presentation, I will just cover some basics of processed foods and its relationship to pH. I will just quickly go through some general North Dakota rules for selling and labeling products. And then I will address any questions that you might have. So those are some things that we will do today. The first thing to remember is that when we talk about food preservation, we also talk about this concept of pH. pH is very important because the Food and Drug Administration or FDA defines foods based on a pH, essentially. For example, the FDA will identify products as an acid food, a low acid food, and then one that would be classified as a acidified food. The first two, the acid and the low acid, those are inherent to the food product. So if you have an orange, for example, an orange is acid in nature. So the pH is squeeze out that juice from the orange, do the pH, it's going to be acid in nature. A low acid food is one that you would see has very low acidity to it. So it's going to have a much higher pH. Acidified food is one then that is oftentimes a low acid food that we've added an acid to to make it considered acidified. So those are some FDA definitions for different food categories based on pH. Keep in mind that we measure pH based on the pH scale. So it's something that you need to have a pH meter, essentially, to measure that. So let's just highlight some of the foods that would be in these different categories. We have low acid foods. These products have pH values above 4.6. And remember on an acidity scale, 7 is considered neutral, 14 is considered very alkaline in nature, and 1 is very acidic. So it's a case where just recognizing that when we talk about low acid and high acid foods, keep in mind is the kind of the reverse in terms of numbers. So in a low acid food, those are products that have higher pH. Anything above 4.6 is considered a low acid food. An acid food is one that has a pH of 4.6 or lower. So you again have a definition here where specifically you have a pH of 4.6. So always remember that number. So if someone calls you up and says, well my food was measured at a pH of 4.3, you can tell them that well that was an acid food because that's lower than the 4.6. So that's again a way to think about this pH scale. Acidified foods are oftentimes low acid foods that have had acid added to them. And one of the important parts of this unacidified food is that it must have an equilibrium pH of 4.6 or lower. So you have to add sufficient acid to make that low acid food item into that, essentially that acid pH range. So that's essentially again what we would see with regards to the pH scale. So if we just summarize some of the foods that might be in these categories, your acid foods, these would be of course fruits, pickles, sauerkraut, and then tomatoes and figs are sometimes right at that cut off of 4.6. And so it's always important to understand what tomato product that you are using and do your garden tomatoes have the correct pH. Because we find that some tomatoes grown in very alkaline conditions or alkaline soils actually can have a pH above 4.6. So it's very important to understand that even though we put tomatoes and figs in this acid foods category, they do need to have added lemon juice, citric acid, or vinegar depending on your formulation. But low acid foods in contrast to that would be meat, they would be seafood, poultry milk, and really all fresh vegetables with the exception of maybe tomato. So again just recognizing the difference between acid and low acid foods, very important. So the question becomes which of the following will not help to make a food product more acidic? So if you want to take just 10 seconds here and write down an answer or response, feel free to do that in the chat. And in just a few seconds I'll highlight the answer for you. So again which of the following will not help to make a food product more acidic? Okay so a number of you said had indicated water and that is correct. Keep in mind that in order to make maybe one of these low acid foods acidic you have to have something that has a pH that will lower the pH of that food. And water is neutral right around that pH of 7 so therefore it will never make a low acid food acidic. So again recommendation, citric acid, vinegar, lemon juice are the common ones that we would use. So as you can see here water was that selection. So again remember this value of 4.6 is important and if asked tomatoes or figs recommend citric acid or lemon juice. Those are the ones that we oftentimes will recommend, at least Julie and I do, citric acid, lemon juice for acidifying those low acid foods. One of the important aspects of preservation is a concept known as pickley. And we just generically oftentimes refer to things as pickles but recognizing that with pickles you can have a pickled cucumber, you can have pickled green beans. So anything that you have an acid added to is we generically refer to that as a pickled product but keep in mind that it's really defined as an acidified product. So again you'll see very common that vinegar is one of those ingredients on pickles or pickled green beans etc. Another very important recommendation that we always make to individuals learning to can or maybe those that have been canning for many years. We always ask them to really look at the USDA guidelines for canning, acidified and acid types of foods. It's important that they follow tested recipes or formulations. I've seen a number of individuals try to contact me to do a pH on products and then when you measure that pH and you find well it's a pH of five and you start asking questions about how they can the products, they are clearly not doing it correctly. So it's important that if you have an individual that comes to you asking about canning direct them to the USDA guidelines for formulations and some of the conditions for processing products. Two approved methods of canning products at home in this USDA guidelines include boiling water bath canning and then pressure canning. With boiling water bath it's important to understand that the maximum temperature you can achieve is 212 degrees Fahrenheit and that's at sea level. And I don't immediately have numbers off hand for different sea levels but at sea level it is 212 Fahrenheit. In this particular case recognizing that that is the maximum temperature any food will achieve when canning at sea level. So the use of acid for using this particular technique then you can use acid foods or acidified foods. So those are really the only two categories of foods that we can process with the boiling water bath canning method. In contrast to that we have pressure canning and with pressure canning you achieve temperatures that are much higher. 240 degrees Fahrenheit is the temperatures that we can achieve. And just recognizing that in pressure canning the pressure is what allows for the temperature to get to 240 degrees Fahrenheit. So that's why we do that. Boiling water bath canning will never get that high. 212 is the maximum. Pressure canning at least 240. Keep in mind that with pressure canning you can achieve temperatures of 250 degrees Fahrenheit depending on what pressure is in that canner. And remember that with low acid foods the pressure canning is really the only method that we can use to not 100% guarantee you're going to kill everything but at least you get a better confidence that you've eliminated a lot of the organisms of concern. With pressure canning we also have mixtures of acid and low acid food items. So if you feel like your product is not at that pH of 4.6 or lower pressure canning is the way to go in that scenario. One of the most important things to remember though is that with low acid foods they cannot be sold in the public. So these are products that you cannot sell. So if you can just green beans or carrots or a mixture of carrots and onions these are considered the low acid foods and therefore you cannot sell those to the public. So in this scenario as we're speaking in the context of the presentation here people that can at home cannot sell to the public these low acid foods. So where do we start then? It's like I want to know what are my pH's of my food products that I will be actually evaluating. And it's important then to talk to any individual that has questions or concerns about pH in recognizing that there's an array of ways in which we can measure pH. In elementary school and junior high school you may have played around with litmus paper and you may have tested the acidity of a fruit juice or baking soda solution or something inside of the litmus paper change to a blue or a pink color. Those particular types of pH measurements are fine if you're playing around in a lab and doing a little test but it's not appropriate for food items because you just don't know what the specific value is. You just know that it changed colors. There's also been a lot of products being sold on the market that are for swimming pools and testing swimming pool water where they have a series of pH's and they have these different color codes that allow you to differentiate a pH of 3 versus 4. So you can see that over here you see the lab supplies product. It allows you to at least define what's 3 and 4 is but again it does not allow you to specifically say that the pH of this product is 4.6 or less. It just says that it's 3 or 4 so again this type of product is not suitable for measuring pH of food products. That gets us into then more of the pH meters. We have handheld meters so you can see here we have the two handheld meters. Depending on the pH meter you want to make sure that you continually assess whether or not they are recording accurately so you would have calibrations and I'll talk about that shortly. Usually the handheld meters have relatively good precision and accuracy and repeatability. However if you want one that has over the long run has more consistency in terms of repeatability, precision, etc. Those would be the more expensive meters that you're getting into that would be a lab or a benchtop type of meter or a handheld unit that is very similar to that benchtop model. So when we want to identify then the pH of a product you need to look at your ingredients that you're selecting. When we highlight garlic for example or cucumbers or onions these particular products if you grind these up with a little bit of distilled water and then take the pH of that product you'll end up with a product that's in that low acid category. So in this particular scenario just recognizing that you need to understand what is the pH of your product because if your pH is on that low acid category no matter what method you use you always have to consider that it will be a low acid food until you add acid to it. So if it's a cucumber product you want to make pickles you're adding vinegar to that formulation. And then in the corner here I have a tomato and it has that question mark and I've already brought this up a little bit earlier and that with tomatoes depending on the growing environment some are at that pH 4.6 or lower while others are just maybe 4.7. So there are some differences in pH so get to know what your tomatoes would be. If you take a look at the University of Georgia and the collaboration with the FDA this particular link that I provide for you has a listing of all these different food items and what the pH is. So it's a good way to get started with identifying pHs of these different foods. And then of course every time you want to run a calibration on that pH meter because from day to day the pH meter can function differently based on temperature, based on humidity in the air. So it's important that every day that you are carrying a product that you undergo a calibration before you start measuring pH on different products. And we're not going to watch the video. There is a video out there that you can see. If you have trouble seeing it just let Julie or I know and we can figure out a way to have you watch that. But again make sure that you recognize that the recommendation is to do a calibration on that pH meter. So once you've identified the food and the food ingredients to the pHs of those products and then calibrate the machine you can then move forward and measure the pH of that product. And generally speaking the way that we do this in the lab is that we take a given amount of product and we grind it in a blender and then we measure the pH. And products that do not have sufficient liquid we oftentimes will mix with spilled water and then record the pH. The FDA also has an official method where you separate the components of that system. So if you have pickles in the vinegar or the brine solution you separate those two components and then you add them back in the appropriate ratio that's in that product and you grind that and then you measure pH. So it's important to understand that with this pH you will have to have some liquid in that. So if you don't have enough liquid it's pretty tough to actually measure then pH value. So then you have some questions. You know once I've calibrated that pH what's next? And so you've measured that pH and you have to identify is it 4.6 or less. If the answer is yes this is considered an acid food. If you say no the pH was 5.1 then this is considered to be then that low acid food. So again 4.6 is that magic number to remember. In terms of processing then if we said yes our product was 4.1 that's considered an acid food and so then we can use a boiling water bath. So that's the important thing to remember is that this pH allows us to establish can we use a boiling water bath or do we need to use that a pressure canner. And in this particular case if it's considered then a low acid food you have to use that pressure canner. However if you have a low acid food that you add acid to. So I'm going to add vinegar I'm going to add citric acid to that food product. I've now acidified that product so that becomes then this acidified food item and then you can again use a boiling water bath. So remember from the previous slide that was when you had a pH of 4.6 or less that was considered an acid food you can use a boiling water bath. On the opposite side you had the low acid food. If I add acid to that it becomes what we define as that acidified food you can use the boiling water bath. However if you are not adding acid to this low acid food then you have to use that pressure canner. So those again just kind of use this flowchart as a way to establish what type of method I need to use when it comes to processing. So I want to shift gears a little bit away from this general concept of pH and move into more of this fact sheet that is available by the North Dakota Department of Health. Again this is the food and lodging division. In the next few slides we'll go over this in more detail but I believe that this particular fact sheet maybe Julia has sent out prior to this presentation. She definitely has it listed and linked to the North Dakota Department of Health so if you need to pull up something just take a look at the full document. What I'll do here in the next few slides is kind of pull apart this document just to see kind of how it fits into our discussion on pH. So the first thing again remember is that when we do home processing we have to make sure we understand what products are allowable for us to sell at say farmers markets and what products are not. And one quick thing to remember again is this concept of pH. When we have products such as pickles and we have vegetables or fruits that have an equilibrium pH value of 4.6 or lower we can sell products to that farmers market. If we have non-temperature controlled baked goods that do not require refrigeration these products can also be sold. So again it's a case where the key in that second type of food product is that it does not require refrigeration. So if something requires refrigeration then you cannot sell it. If it's going to be a canned product you're selling remember again this pH of 4.6 or lower is that key number. Also then when you are selling or want to sell these products the question is is where can I sell these to consumers? And this particular list shows you different things. So we can sell the products at county fairs, at non-profit charitable events. We can also sell them at community celebrations, farmers markets and then roadside stands. So these are the places that we can sell these different products to or in the location that we can sell these. So again remember they must meet that pH of 4.6 or lower criteria or be non-refrigerated baked items. So those are the requirements still and they're available for sale at these different locations. And again I think my marker went quickly to this one. Again which of the following is an acceptable place for selling food products? Keep in mind that the farmers market is on this list is the only place that you can actually sell these products. Once you start selling products on the internet at craft shows in another states it becomes a case of products that actually fall under the FDA jurisdictions in the case of the internet in other states. And maybe in a few weeks you'll touch on this a little bit more. I do see one question about jams and jellies and jams and jellies basically would be an acidified food product. So they fall under the product that you can sell just because again they're acid in nature and so they would be allowable for sale. So again just recognizing going back to this slide we want to make sure that you just recognize that if people ask you will can I sell it on the internet. Make sure you just tell them that you can't just because you don't know if you're going to have someone in Minnesota buying it or North Carolina or Florida that might be buying it. With regards to pepper jams I see another question about pepper jams and jellies. Again the question here is what is that equilibrium pH? If that equilibrium pH is 4.6 or less then that would be an acceptable product. Again it's that pH is really what the defining determination is. So in this particular case as long as it has a pH of less than 4.6 you'd be okay with pepper jam to jellies. What's also important to if you want to sell products then the individual has to post some signage. And the signage here relates to the fact that these can products or baked goods that they are homemade so you're highlighting that they are homemade and also that they are not subject to state inspection and that these food products have been produced in a domestic kitchen and have not been produced under inspection. So you have to post this to let people know that it hasn't gone through the same type of process as food that might be sold at a grocery store. So it's again important that they recognize that. So the consumer then would have some responsibility in this and knowing that okay it wasn't prepared and inspected kitchen basically. So what are some of the labeling requirements that we would have on a product? Keep in mind that labeling requirements are slightly different than what you would see at a national level. So again when you talk about the FDA their requirements are different than say these local foods and local produce and local product types of labeling. So if you want to sell then a product at the farmers market you have to again give a product name. You have to provide information about the name of the producer and contact information. So if someone gets ill from consuming your product at least they can contact you or the health department could contact that individual. So it's again important to have the name of that producer on that product. What's also important is that the date the product was made or canned. If you go to the grocery store you see a lot of dates say used by or expiration date. Keep in mind those are used by dates. In this particular case we're specifically saying that you would give the date that that product was actually made. So that's a difference because with the large food manufacturers they're worried more about quality issues and so they say well use it by a certain date. In this particular case the date the product was made it needs to be on that label. And also then you have ingredients. So the ingredient label must be on there because if you have an allergen to some sort of food ingredient it really needs to be listed so people are aware that hey this contains maybe walnut or something else if it's a baked good. That way they know that okay you have walnut in that product. Also I don't have listed up here for label requirements but you can see this on the fact sheet. So if you have your fact sheet available you can look at that. But one of the other things that's an important label requirement is that there's a statement where that they should have listed on that product that the product was produced in an uninspected home kitchen where major food allergens may also have been handled and prepared. Such as tree nuts, peanuts, eggs, soy milk, etc. So there is also a labeling requirement for them to put that on that product. So again take a look at the fact sheet. It has more information that you can see. Then the next question always is with regards to a nutrition facts label. Remember the nutrition facts label is that nutrition facts panel that you would include. This particular one you can see there's an ingredient label but the nutrition facts panel would be what I've highlighted here. And the answer to that is no. It's not required for small businesses. However if you want one or a client wants one for their product they can always contact Julie. She can do labels for them. Again these are not required for small businesses. However keep in mind that if you plan to sell across the borders you have to be aware of other regulatory issues. And so again we'll try to cover this in a couple of weeks on another webinar. So again just recognizing with the nutrition facts panel that if you're going to sell at the local farmers market there's not a need to put that on there. However you can if you wish. So again what are some of the products that you may not sell. So in this case we can't sell these items. Home can products, low acid foods such as peas, beets, green beans, carrots. These are all considered low acid so that's the question. You cannot sell fresh salsas and pestos that require refrigeration. So if you're prepared a fresh salsa or a pesto these are also not allowed to be sold because they do require refrigeration. So anything that requires refrigeration cannot be sold. Also any product dealing with canned fish, pickled eggs, or meat cannot be sold. Of course with some of these products keep in mind they might be in the acid pH range such as a pickled egg but it's still not allowed to be sold. So again if somebody asks you that just recognizing that there's a few exceptions to this acidified food terminology that we've been using. So any non acid food processed by boiling water bath or home pressure cooker or canner again these are not allowable. So under the regulatory jurisdiction then again just recognizing with the health department the USDA requirements you're not allowed to sell again fish, dairy, poultry, and meat products. Some of the examples that would be in these particular categories would be things such as smoked fish, butter, raw milk, jerky, and then potentially hazardous products such as garlic and oil mixtures or flavored oils. So these are products that are considered to be under different regulatory jurisdictions and therefore you could not sell these types of products at the farmers market. So which food probably cannot be sold in North Dakota? So I'll give you just a second or two to figure out what the answer is. So again we're indicating cannot be sold in North Dakota so if you want to put down so I see a D. So in this particular case D is that answer. So always remember that if you have a canned artichoke that has a pH of 4.9 that is definitely not a requirement of 4.6 so again not allowed to sell. Custards again that requires a temperature so refrigeration is needed for a custard type product and then salsa as we indicated earlier cannot be sold. So again it's important to recognize sometimes people think well because so and so did this for 20 years it should be safe. Is it necessarily always a good rule to follow? So again remember then food price that you can sell would be anything that has a pH of 4.6 or less. So you would have again pickles, tomatoes, salsa, apples, cherries, grapes, etc. So you would have a number of products that you could sell. One thing that I do want to highlight to you that we really haven't covered much is that of the naturally fermented food such as sauerkraut. The natural fermentation oftentimes what happens is there's a development of acid by the microorganisms and so that fermented product then such as sauerkraut becomes acid in nature. And so then it's considered then in that category of an acid food because it's naturally during that fermentation process it had a pH that dropped below 4.6. So again that is the important criteria always to remember is that pH of 4.6. Some home baked we haven't really covered the baking process extensively but in this particular case products that are allowed would be things like lefse, bread and rolls, fruit pies, candies and confections and sugar or cookies and in bars. And one of the things to remember with some of these products they're high in sugar and low in water. And so that's why they're safer than some of the other products that are not allowed which would be custards, custard filled pastries, meringues, cream pies including pumpkin pie and cookies. So these are products that would not be allowed for sale. And we have a question about sour cream bars or lemon bars and I would probably hesitate to recommend the lemon bars given the ones that I've had but I would have to actually probably maybe ask Julie about that or we can always talk to the North Dakota Department of Health. So that would be one that I'm not quite certain on but knowing how the lemon bars at least the ones that I've had I would say they maybe not be allowed but again I would defer that question to the health department. So then another little quiz question for you is what food price can I sell at North Dakota? So if you want to just quickly think of an answer. So it looks like a number of you have picked D and so that's good to hear and that would be true. So deal pickle, sauerkraut, bread, they all meet that requirement of the Department of Health. So then the question here is kind of shifting gears again away from now kind of the consumer and talk about why all the concern. You keep telling me about pH and you tell me what foods I can and cannot sell but why all the concern about these particular products. And I think because as time goes on we kind of forget history and this is a good example of history in that 12 died with death in grafted farm homes. So it's a case where a number of people died from consuming basically improperly processed food items and I believe this was a piece if I'm not mistaken. In this particular case again the poison that they ingested is one that we have a great concern about and we'll talk about that coming up in the next few slides. And then another you know it's not just an incident of one case, there's a number of cases like this and see with regards to other individuals again it was based on some sort of salad. So they canned the product and then they made a salad out of it and that is what basically oftentimes is a cause of some of these deaths and not so much that they reheated the product prior to consumption. So they use that in a salad of some sort. I have a couple of questions that I kind of missed a few minutes ago. One of the questions is does sauerkraut need to be canned or does the fermentation itself sufficient? And the answer there is that it should be canned. So as soon as the fermentation is done you would can it and then you would treat it in a boiling water bath. In that particular case then it becomes shelf stable. There are products on the market that are fresh sauerkraut products but those are in the refrigerated case. So keep in mind that because it would be in a refrigerated case or have a requirement of refrigeration you would not be able to sell it because it has that temperature requirement. So I always recommend that that sauerkraut be canned and you can use a boiling water bath to do that because you're in an acid environment. The second question is if custard based I would assume there would be a requirement for refrigeration therefore would not be allowed. So that must be going back to our lemon bar question and maybe sour cream. So that would be again if refrigeration required for any baked item keep in mind that that would then not be allowed just because if it has that requirement of refrigeration. So again going back to our concerns with people dying from consuming these different products what we find here is that clustering botulinum is that product that we're most concerned with. With clustering botulinum keep in mind that it's actually the toxin that is produced from clustering botulinum that causes the problem. The live organism really isn't the problem it's the toxin that it produces. However if the live organism is there in that product chances are you have toxin so you have to be careful just in recognizing that the toxin is really what the problem is. Another important problem with regards to clustering botulinum is that it produces spores. So there's spores this organism produces spores and that these spores actually need a little bit of heat to actually promote for them to germinate and grow. So if you have a boiling water bath for example these spores basically are triggered to germinate. And so when your product is sitting in that jar these spores start to germinate the organism starts to grow and starts to produce toxin. And that's basically how that toxin ends up in these low acid foods is because those spores were triggered to start growing and start producing these. And keep in mind clustering botulinum grows best in a low oxygen atmosphere so a canned product really is the ideal environment for clustering botulinum. So just remember that at 2.12 that's not sufficient to destroy the microorganism or kill the spore. It affects it because it allows it to help germinate. So you need to have the high pressure to help inactivate that spore. Also the proper acidification and pH is important because that's also what limits the growth. So these are products that the clustering does not grow well in acid environments. So that's another way to prevent clustering from growing. And that's why we have this differentiation of acid food or acidified food versus low acid and it's because we know that clustering botulinum does not grow in acid environments. What are some foods that are linked to botulinum? So there's been a number of cases so not just the ones that I've showed but a lot of canned products like corn and green beans, peas, tuna fish, chicken, liver, patte, so all of these products there's a potential for botulism. So anything that has low acid conditions and they're packed under kind of low oxygen atmosphere. Lunch meats, ham, sausage, these are also products that botulism has been associated with. And then also we have honey. So infants in particular are susceptible to infant botulism when fed honey. So that's why honey is not something that you would want to feed an infant. So let's move on and just kind of wrap up in the next few slides. Just some general things about registration and fees. If a client comes to you and asks about registering their business, there is a $25 fee for that but it's for a five-year. So once you register your business name, it's good for five years and then you can renew after that. Obtain a sales tax permit so you have to get on and identify the sales tax permit. That is free so you don't have to pay anything for that. They just want to have you basically see how much you make because if you make enough you might be subjected to taxes. But again, it's sales tax permit. It's free to get that permit. And then rental space. So that's going to vary from one market to another. So just be aware that that's going to be another thing that they need to consider is if they want to sell at a farmer's market. If they want to sell at a roadside stand, then they have requirements of purchasing a stand and so forth. So again, rental space is very much dependent on where that is. So which of the following is not required by law if you occasionally sell items at a farmer's market? So which of these is not required? So in this particular case, a business license is not required. So a business license is really not required at this time if it's just an occasional thing. But again, you have to have that sales permit. You have that $5 or $25 for five-year requirement for business registration. And then of course, if you are renting the space at the farmer's market, you have that fee. So with that, that pretty much wraps up a lot of my discussion. I just want to highlight a few things. Julie requested that I present to you. Again, just draw your attention to the Agriculture and University Extension. You know, choose your crop, apples, chickpea, et cetera. These are kind of in that specialty crops area. So again, it has some very good information and worthwhile information for you to check out. Also, there's a food entrepreneur and resource guide for the food industry. So if you're interested, if you're interested or you have an individual that's interested, this is really a good site to get started with. And essentially then it helps you think of it in the context of being an entrepreneur. And then here's a local foods website that you can check out to get a sense of local foods. And then just a reminder, I want to thank you for attending this presentation. Don't forget to fill out the survey. It looks like Scott has posted it in the chat area. And then with that, if you have any questions after you leave the webinar, you can either contact me, Julie, or talk with Kenan Bollinger. He's the director of the Division of Food and Lodging with the North Coast Department of Health. He can provide some answers as well. So with that, I'm pretty much I think wrapped up with my presentation. And so if there's any other questions I can answer, feel free to chat if you have some. So there's a question here about it looks like they seal the jars by putting them in the dishwasher. Can I tell them that this is terrible practice? And this is a good question because I've actually had this question myself. And the answer is no. They should not use a dishwasher to seal jars or to can products. I think that there's not enough control in that type of situation. There's no guarantee that the project is going to be subjected to a certain condition long enough. And there really hasn't been a lot of studies that prove that that's been safe anyway. So the boiling water bath is a better way to actually allow for the jars to be processed. And then as they naturally cool down, they will seal themselves. So any other questions? So again, I see that we're coming up to our hour here shortly. Again, I want to thank you for listening to the presentation. Don't forget next week, next Wednesday, Julie will, I believe, be back on to follow up with some more information. So at this time, I'll turn it over to Scott if he has any comments. Yeah, thanks a lot for doing the presentation. Great job. And down the chat area, I did throw a few links in there. First link, if you scroll up a little bit, was the Choose Your Crop link that Cliff was talking about. And then the Food Nutrition page is also on there. Then I've thrown the survey up a few times. I'll do it one more time real quick. That's the survey link that Julie gave me. So other than that, I think we're good. All right. Well, thank you everybody. Thank you for joining us, everybody. Good rest of your day.