 Welcome to this morning's session. My name is Ling Shui Ling. I'm an executive producer at Channel News Asia, which is based in Singapore, but we're a regional channel. We reach 73 million viewers in the Southeast Asian region. I'm very pleased and honored to have developed together with the World Economic Forum's great team this topic editorially, which is perhaps one of the most compelling topics that we're gonna be facing in the next 10 years. Asia has been that major driving force in the Third Industrial Revolution. Factory Asia, everybody knows this term. But what about the Fourth Industrial Revolution? Is Asia going to be able to take the lead then? So these are these questions that we're gonna be addressing in this morning's panel. With me are the very distinguished guests, Minister Thomas Lembong over here, the chairman of Indonesia's Investment Coordination Board. He was also former trade minister, so I'm sure you all know him very well. Next to him, Shalindra Singh from Sequoia Capital. Anybody who knows technology will of course know who he is. Mrs. Carrie Lam, chief executive of Hong Kong. Chairman Xu from Singhua Holdings. I'm sure you're all very familiar with him, but those of you perhaps who are not familiar may not realize that the person sitting here is actually the head of one of the largest semiconductor companies in the world. So a force to be reckoned with and definitely somebody who'll be able to talk about the next 10 years. And last but definitely not least, in fact he may be the only one who will have a job in the next 10 years, William Tanuijaya, co-founder of Tokopedia, enormous e-commerce site in Indonesia. Okay, we put out a series of poll tweets on challenges Asia and World Economic Forum to ask all of you what you thought was going to be happening over the next few years. We asked the question of what industries, what jobs, do you think are going to disappear in the next 10 years? And this is what the response of more than 2,000 WEF and County's Asia viewers was. Okay, 55% basically said there are going to be no more taxi drivers, 38% said no more accountants. But on the other hand, Mr. Shahrukh Khan and Mr. Jackie Chan can all be extremely happy because actors are, they're definitely going to be around in the next 10 years. I'm going to kick off by asking Mrs. Carrie Lam what she thinks, whether she agrees with this, she's very concerned about what's happening in Hong Kong and about whether it can stay as dynamic as it has been. So what do you think, no more taxi drivers, no more Hong Kong taxi drivers? This survey outcome is very interesting, but actually one will have to dig deeper. When we said the taxi drivers will disappear, are they going to be replaced by Uber drivers? Because taxi drivers are the professional taxi drivers, but Uber drivers are really part-time, shared economy type of drivers, or they're going to be replaced by autonomous cars and driverless cars. But never mind whether it is Uber drivers or autonomous vehicles, they are also part of the fourth industrial revolution in terms of new technology. I welcome this opportunity to talk about this fourth industrialization because we are about to embark on this journey in order to diversify Hong Kong's economy. Of course, we are no longer manufacturing hubs, so I can't really contribute a lot to the factory of Asia. But in terms of our professional services, which now account for 92% of our GDP, I do see a lot of benefits to advancing our professional services in the application of technology. So in financial services, we can have FinTech. In medical services, we could have Biotech. And in advancing education, particularly for young kids, we could have EduTech. And of course, there we have Smart City. And also particularly in looking after the elderly, there's huge potential for gerund technology. So I do agree that actors will not disappear. Actually, a lot of services will need more jobs, particularly in looking after elderly people on the hospitality side and on the care side. We will need a lot more people to work in those areas. I'll move on now to Mr. Lembong in Indonesia because Indonesia and China actually still have a similar structure in the sense that there are quite a lot of people who are actually involved in agriculture and also in manufacturing. So what's going to happen to them and will those industries still continue? I think in that respect, the fourth industrial revolution will be very similar to the third and the second, right? In that these new technologies will expedite the industrialization of such sectors like agriculture will become more mechanized, manufacturing will become even more automated, right? But I would like to cite one fantastic headline from the South China Morning Post which said that the robots are coming not to replace us, but to give us a promotion. And in Indonesia, we actually feel similar to Chief Executive Lab that as more and more robots are coming and things get more automated or manufactured, the premium on the human touch will get bigger, right? The public's appreciation for handcrafted and artisanal and human interest, human touch. And this goes to Chief Executive Lab's point about services, right? So I certainly believe that the automation, the artificial intelligence will actually liberate us to focus more on things of the heart, things that are very human in our day-to-day work and our day-to-day lives. Chairman Xu, Tsinghua is known for always being cutting edge. It takes its origin in fact from Tsinghua University. So there's no lack of technology and high-tech thinking within your industry. But China is not all Tsinghua holdings. There are a lot of other people there as well. How is China going to cope with the fourth industrial revolution? I have to speak Chinese. Well, I think the mankind has been developing with technology. What do we do with technology? I think it's always a tool. It serves the mankind. It replaces traditional labor, the fourth industrial revolution. I think the biggest thing about this one is that it has the ability to learn. It learns and replaces some of the human intelligence, but that's not to be feared. As long as technology is applied to bring benefits to mankind, then it's not something for us to fear. I think the fourth industrial revolution or even later, machine. I think it will never replace our thinking, our imagination. It cannot replace the communication of emotions, that kind of warmth only human beings can impart. Therefore, we don't need to fear. Even if a taxi driver's disappear, then perhaps the moderator or anchor will disappear. There will be machine, but there will be other things through which human beings can communicate with each other and work together and therefore culture. Anything that has to do with your mind, with your spirit, those type of products and also things through which you demonstrate your imagination, they will flourish. One of the things my children are doing is they bring younger people together to have fun. That's great. Once we get rid of the simple labor and replace that with a higher level of activities, that's a great thing. I do not feel worried about unemployment because there will be new industries. We're worried about this. Mr. Singh, though, do you think as an investor in high-tech companies, so you're going to have an even greater number of companies to invest in? It's all going to be booming. The young kids are going to be all entrepreneurs. Is that a realistic vision or is it really just a small portion of society where that's going to be taking place? Our view is that, especially in Asia, we have many different trends that suggest that we will leapfrog how traditional developed world has incumbent industries have developed. So we see all kinds of traditional industries, whether it's banking or it's retail or it's pharmaceuticals, et cetera, in various ways need to evolve with the advent of today's deep tech for industrial revolution technologies. So we find the menu of investment opportunities is significantly more wide and has depth than ever in history. And especially for Asia, our view is that because many of the economies in Southeast Asia, even China to a degree, especially India, are still emerging and developing, there is very significant leapfrog potential and there are multiple examples of companies we've invested in which are doing exactly that. William, you're, as I said, the classic person, you're the entrepreneur, you're probably the one who should be least worried of all the panelists. How do you see things developing in Indonesia? Because your sector, of course, is booming, but on the other hand, can everybody else come along with this as well? And a lot of the service sector that we're talking about, we mustn't forget that a lot of the service sector can also be low-paid jobs, not particularly well-skilled and with not much of a future, the World Bank has actually pointed that out. They put out a report about why manufacturing still matters for Indonesia and in fact for most developing countries. What do you think? Yeah. So Indonesia is the largest archipelago country in the world. We have 17,000 islands. So it's actually almost impossible for us to be equal in processes across the country. So it actually creates a couple of social issues. One is like if you are living in a small city, you actually need to pay higher price for the product and services that people in the big city can enjoy. If you are starting a business in a small city, you also need to saving for the next generation to move to the bigger city to access to the bigger market. Eight years ago, we started a company not because of reading technology, it's the next wave, but we want to solve that situation, how we can actually democratize commerce through technology. And through the marketplace business model, together we already have 2.6 million business growth together with our platform and surprisingly 70% of them are first-time business owners. They are stay-at-home moms, stay-at-home parents, colleagues, students, office workers, that in our parents' generation, our grandparents' generation has no chance to start the business, to access the whole market like Indonesia, but today they have that chance because of the technology. So I think that Asia, we can actually benefit from the second mover, Adventex, leveraging our youth population, leveraging massive domestic consumption and leveraging interconnected economies. I see there will be two trends, one is used to be on the factory Asia. Asia is learned from the world. Like, there is a crystal ball effect or time machine effect, right? When China first time create the search engine, Pi2 or create the first marketplace platform, Alibaba, people from the world always refer that Pi2 is Google of China. Alibaba is eBay of China, but today actually I see that the trends change to Asia. The world will learn from Asia. So for example, in the Southeast Asia, when we started, we are no longer benchmarking ourselves only to US or only to Europe. We start to learn that what happens in China, what happens in India will definitely happen in Southeast Asia, right? So that Asia learn from the world will become the world learn from the Asia. And the second trends that we see, that Asia will no longer be the market, but it will be changed to become the, enjoy to become the players and become the makers. We are the home, is Asia, we are the home of 60% population in the world. We have a huge, huge market, but thanks for this, for industry revolution, thanks for this new technology. In the last one, less than one decade, we see a lot of homegrown entrepreneur with a mission to prosper the people of their country, comes up with the local innovation and with the ambitions to compete with the global players. This is, again, something that we never see in our parents or grandparents generation. Do you agree, Mr. Lembong, that you can leapfrog across, so to say, the middle mucky bit of the manufacturing and just move straight into the high-tech services? So, as usual, when you start looking at things from a policymaker or regulatory perspective, things are not as straightforward and not as simple. So, I think manufacturing will definitely be less of a source of jobs than in the past, right? As our fellow panelists have pointed out, the low-end simple tasks will be automated and more and more things will be automated, but especially big countries have no choice but to have a big manufacturing base, even for balance of payments issues, right? Even for macroeconomic balance issues. So, even if all of our factories were automated, you still need them because from a balance of payments or macroeconomic policy perspective, the numbers don't add up if you try to import everything, right? So, manufacturing certainly isn't going away. And the other thing I would point out is that to my knowledge, Asia is the strongest area in the world for science and technology graduates, right? So, engineers, programmers, coders. So, I think Asia is actually in a very, very strong position, right, to build the manufacturing base of the future, right, because so much will be software-oriented, so much will have to be highly engineered, right? So, I think Asia potentially is the last place or the last region in the world that really needs to worry about it. I think other areas in the world that are not as strong in science, technology, and engineering would have to be more worried about that. Can I echo the optimism about Asia in this fourth industrial revolution that both William and Tom have mentioned? Asia, of course, in recent years have been the main driver of economic growth, accounting for 60% of the growth in GDP, and China alone accounted for 30%. I see a lot of potential in Asia. One is, of course, because, as Thomas mentioned, I see this really amongst the young people, this urge and this hunger for doing well and in terms of innovation and technology. Secondly, as William said, this is a place with a large population and a growing middle class who will aspire for all these services and so on. And thirdly, it's a little bit of geopolitical consideration. It's this interconnectivity in Asia, whereas in other parts of the world, I'm afraid we are seeing some fractured here and there, but here Asia is very well connected. Take Hong Kong as an example, we have just signed a free trade agreement and investment promotion and protection agreement with the 10 member nations of ASEAN. And ASEAN has been going for 10 plus one, 10 plus one, three, 10 plus six, and on top of that we have the Belt and Road, which will connect all these ASEAN economies. So with that sort of connectivity will come, that we will complement each other. For example, I mentioned Hong Kong doesn't have manufacturing, but there's no reason why a lot of manufacturing hubs in Asia could not make use of our professional services for the raising of capital, for the management of risk, and for infrastructure services and legal arbitration services and so on. So all these factors give me a lot of optimism about Asia. Chairman Xu, what about in China with the state-owned enterprises? You are still largely focused on manufacturing, as Mr Limbong mentioned, about policy and policy makers. You can't, it's not as simple as that. So what's going to happen with all the state-owned enterprises in China? I think this question should be answered by Mr... the chairman of SASAC, whose managing state-owned assets. I also have the optimistic attitude like two other panelists. Not only Asia has a big market, we are also a very open marketplace. Today, this year, we are talking about how to create a shared future in a fractured world. And Asia is exactly doing this. We already have some advantages here. We will continue with these advantages. For China, as you said, we have many SOEs. Actually, SOEs of China are transforming, for example, shareholding structure, transformation, or more market mechanism into SOE management. So I'm also confident here. Tsinghua Holdings is trying to have a more flexible mechanism, more market-oriented mechanism. As you said, we are also a semiconductor company. It already has a mixed shareholding structure, which can combine the overall national strategic planning and market dynamics. Mr Tsing, in this being able to... now you've heard mentioning about connectivity, the transformations that are going to take place. Do you actually see that taking place? And can we have business models here in Asia which are going to be different, significantly different from the ones that we see in the West? Or are we just merely following the same pattern just a little bit further behind? Yeah, it's a... I think it's a very, very important question. And we think what technology is doing, and fourth industrial revolution technologies like AI are a key enabler, is essentially we're not doing anything different. We're just changing how we do things. The new companies change to do the same things as the old companies do, but they can do it faster. They have maybe advantages of data, of distribution, of platform networks and so on. I'll quote an example. William has done an amazing job of innovating with many interesting things in China. We have a portfolio company called Gojek that has over 500,000 drivers in China, and they built a mobile wallet with it. Now, I'll give you an example. Gojek evolved very fast, unlike some of the other ride-hailing companies into a full-platform business with payments, logistics, and food delivery. And they'll probably add more services over time. Now, interestingly, 500,000-600,000 drivers in Jakarta can accept money into their wallet every day. And so, you know, here's a new paradigm, a new way. It's the same thing. It's a mobile wallet is not a new phenomena, but how people access the wallet has suddenly changed. And the local regulations that allowed them to do that and the licenses and so on and so forth have now created a new paradigm in financial services called GoPay, which we think will probably evolve into a very, very strong force in financial services. Now, this is a great example. You know, many of the other global ride-hailing companies, etc., have not had this focus on the adjacent, let's say, payments market. So, there are many such examples. We have a company called Oil Rooms in India, which has evolved into a full-stack hotel-platform company for, you know, affordable hotels. And we just invested in a company called One Championship that is taking a mobile-first approach to building a sports franchise. And it's now become Asia's, Southeast Asia's number one sports media property. And, you know, their mobile video views and their focus on online mobile community and learnings from what's happening in China will hopefully help them leapfrog how a traditional sports franchise has been created, run, distributed, and so on and so forth. So, we see across industries this playing out where all of these companies are in sort of uncharted territory. And the same, by the way, the Chinese companies in Sequoia's portfolio are incredible at having created new paradigms. You know, there isn't the equivalent of a taotiao in the U.S. which has, you know, blossomed. There isn't an equivalent of a VIP kit. There's a new company called Pinduo Duo in e-commerce that is on fire in China and will be huge in the next one or two years. And there isn't a global comparable. So, I think in Asia we are seeing these mutations of business models which are creating very powerful new entities at immense scale and very, very rapidly. And the constant feeling inside of our heads is that of surprise. And saying, hey, we got lucky once again because, you know, we didn't anticipate with William at Tokopedia we had no idea that it would become so big so fast. And, you know, that's the truth. And, you know, Gojack beat our fifth year or seventh year forecast in nine months of launch. So, I think the interesting thing about Asia is because of this interconnected economy with highly affordable mobile devices, low-cost devices. Now, major bandwidth changes in countries like India where Reliance Duo has really leapfrogged, you know, with low-cost 4G bandwidth. What we are finding is that, you know, the speed and the velocity of the new business models developing into mainstream large businesses what used to take 10 years is happening in one or two, three years. But then perhaps the rather pressing question for all the person standing here is is that can we keep up as in us little human beings? Are we going to be able to keep up with this tremendous speed? I can understand that William is going to be running way ahead of me, but can I catch up with him? So, in other words, a lot of these that you have mentioned also are based in using a lot of fairly unskilled labor. What is going to happen to the Gojack driver? Yeah. Gojack is going to do fantastically well. But the Gojack driver, what is his future? Where is he going to go? How is he going to upskill? I would like to try to answer that. These Gojack motorcycle drivers or grab motorcycle drivers. First, to join those platforms, they've gone from not knowing how to turn on a smartphone to now knowing how to download the app, update the app regularly, how to use GPS location services, how to turn photographs into PDF and other advanced mobile smartphone facilities that they were completely unfamiliar with. And we're talking hundreds of thousands and soon millions of people who are learning the gateway to the global internet by becoming smartphone proficient. Number two, these motorcycle drivers were motorcycle drivers before, but they were in the informal sector. By joining these platforms, they're now in the formal sector, where with apologies as regulator and policymaker, we can tax them, right? We can tax them, we can regulate them. So e-commerce and digitalization and the forced industrial revolution is not only a creative destruction. It is actually an organizing force. It is actually helping to bring people from the informal sector into the formal sector. The combinations of many of the things we're going to be seeing is not just technology, though. For example, Hong Kong is putting a great deal of money now into increasing its R&D. But I'm sure, Mrs. Lam, you know that R&D is only part of the puzzle. There are so many other pieces that have to go in. Just as you, also, William, have said, that technology is insufficient. So is there some kind of sort of like a magic formula, though, a magic recipe in which we say that if we add sort of two parts, R&D, plus a certain amount of, you know, flexible thinking of people, young people who are going to be playing, you know, in China, all of going to combine to give us this fourth industrial revolution, you know, fantastic boost? Well, because I'm speaking as a policymaker, so I have to be very realistic on how we can achieve. So last year in my policy address, in pressing ahead with INT, I have listed out an egg-prone approach. And R&D and funding are only two areas. We need to nurture the talents. We need to revisit the legislation to ensure that they are aligned with the needs of the new economy. We need to open up more government data to facilitate the development of this new technology. We need, at the end of the day, to do more education. So this brings me back to the point that Lin Yu mentioned earlier about wages. I don't think we could expect the fourth industrial revolution to solve all the social problems that any government would have to face. But then there is something for social policies. And every government should be obliged to provide the needed leadership and support for social policies to ensure that some of those truck drivers who are left behind somehow will not be left behind. Presidents see that not a single person should be left behind in pressing for economic growth because we want economic growth to be inclusive. So we need really to think hard on what sort of social policies we should put in place to complement the fourth industrial revolution. Well, this question of nobody is going to be left behind. We actually asked, again, Channel News Asia viewers, plus World Economic Forum participants, we're asking this question. How well do you think your education actually prepared you for your current job? And before I give you the results, can I just see a show of hands amongst the excellent people gathered here? How many of you think that your education prepared you for your job? Would you put up your hand, please? Okay, that is a clear, not even less than half. I think that we're something like 10%. Would you say that 10% of the persons, so do 90% of all of you believe that you were not prepared for your job via your education? All right, so you're in accordance, in fact, with all the various people who answer the poll. Nearly 70% say they do not feel that their education prepared them for their current job. 33% said that they thought it had. Now, what we're seeing here, although none of us are educationalists, I would say there's a bit of an indictment, though, isn't it, that we are not preparing our young and even older persons for their jobs. Now, maybe I will take, maybe it's because education never can prepare us for our job. Somehow jobs are always so dynamic that no matter what you do, it doesn't matter whether it was Third Industrial Revolution or Fourth Industrial Revolution. But we must still entertain the possibility that it does not prepare you for your job. Let me ask you, Chairman Xu, because Tsinghua Holdings draws a lot of its ideas and its origins from the university. And do you feel that the university prepares its young people for the jobs it might be getting with you? First of all, I think university education nowadays in China or in other Asian countries needs to be transformed to. Fourth Industrial Revolution will bring a different future. Now we are talking about employment, but in the future, the employment market will be very different. In the future, we don't have to go to a workplace. In the future, our home might be our workplace. For example, my neighbor is working at home. So in the future, we need more people with imagination, creativity and personality. It should not be, they will not come out from a standardized or uniformized education. So we have to think about how to liberate imagination, dynamics, and personality for our future generation. This will be the challenge for the future education system. It's not only education on campus. It's also education online. There are many possibilities for online education which is also provided by Tsinghua University. Now more than 9 million people are using our online education services around the world including Asian countries. So we provide all kinds of untypical programs. For example, entrepreneurship or very new subjects and topics are provided on our online education platform. So with the development of technology and lifestyles, people also have different ways of acquiring knowledge in education. It's not only happening on campus in the university. It's going to be lifelong learning in the future for everyone. You're the youngest person on the panel. Do you think that your education prepared you for being the head of Tokopedia? So I always consider myself as an internet cafe graduate. So I never really go to school at a proper university and never go to the business school. But I think internet truly changed my life. So when we started Tokopedia, no one understood e-commerce. I cannot hire anyone that understands the business model and understands how to read it. But thanks to the internet, I didn't even speak English until 2010. For the first time when I met the investor, they would ask me difficult questions like what is your cohort? You just ask that you understand that, you just write it down, and then you just say, I'll come back to you. You asked Mr. Google, right? So Mr. Google will be giving you all the answers. All future entrepreneurs, please note. Please note this is a very, very clever strategy. So I think that educations will never perfectly prepare us for the jobs. But I think it's very important the organization playing a role on that. It's very important for every organization to become a learning organization. One of our key culture, because we understand that no one understands this, all the talent that we hire and understand the business model and it will change so fast, technology will change. The key culture that we put is like everyone need to have sincerity to share like a teacher and curiosity and humility to learn as a student. So how we can continuously with this learning organization where everyone is involved being a teacher and involved being a student. And I totally agree with Chairman Hsu that life itself is a best teacher. So our schools are actually not as important as we would think. Formal education really doesn't play that. That obvious a role in our normal life. Would you agree, Mr. Imbago? I think I would like to take this opportunity to build on Chief Executive Lam's comments on social policy. And I would like to raise the issue of culture. And culture is also partly defined by values. I think William and other panelists Chairman Hsu, Shailendra, we've touched on things like sincerity, imagination. I believe the more automated, the more technological our society has become, the more important culture becomes, the more important political leadership becomes and I would go as far as to say the more important moral leadership becomes. Because we will need values of community, mutual responsibility, selflessness, far-sightedness and authenticity more than ever. But can these be taught in school? I don't know about all of you, but Chief Executive Lam, you were educated in Cambridge. Were you taught selflessness, sincerity and imagination? Well, not at that sort of late stage, but all these values were sort of implanted in me and my peers when we were in secondary and primary schools. I was brought up in a Catholic school. So every day we went to school, the Catholic sisters will be teaching us all these values and serving the community and be kind and be polite and so on. So perhaps along with the fourth industrial revolution we need a bit of revolution in the school system as well. Instead of just giving them more skills, more knowledge, it's the other way around. We should give them more room, more opportunity just to dream about their future and to be more curious about the environment and then they will have this innovation. I have a lot of confidence in our younger generation. I think that as long as they are given an environment which is conducive, they will be able to adapt to and survive in any changing environment. But there's also one thing, apart from a school system, parenthood also needs to be reformed. These days, parents are just too demanding on their kids in terms of acquisition of skills and knowledge. So more caring parenthood and more understanding and more trust in their kids will be something that I cannot sort of preach to people in Hong Kong, but I certainly feel that these are all very important attributes. Mr. Singh, when you go into a company and look to see whether you're going to put some money in there, do you look at the educational qualifications or do you ask them some difficult questions and they say, oh, it's okay, I'll get back to you on that and you still think this guy could still be clever. Yeah, let me answer that. I want to build on these two comments. I think it's, and I'll answer it from a more tactical perspective. And to answer your question, first on companies, we always say that, you know, can you value a company based on the founder's level of commitment or clarity or sense of purpose or a team's cohesion or how passionately they feel about, you know, solving a problem for society? And we find that the greatest companies, startups that were built were not built using analytical frameworks. They were built using trying to solve needs that people felt personally very passionate about. Almost many of our greatest founders were trying to solve their own problems and stumbled into a big opportunity and they found that the rest of the world had those same problems. So coming back to this discussion on education, I think skills and structured skills are a little bit different from our unstructured learning. So all the value development, the soft skills, the imagination, the culture, et cetera, you know, most of our learning in life happens from real-world experiences, unstructured real-world experiences, and which is why I think we find that the smartest people versus the most effective people can sometimes be different. And so, you know, bringing that back into the impact on society with AI, with robotics, and so on and so forth, you know, our view is the structured, cognitive types of technologies will be the easiest to automate. So structured cognitive tasks like analytical tasks, data crunching, number crunching, unstructured cognitive will be the second most difficult to automate. And some will never be automated because you can't emulate emotion and so on and so forth. In fact, in investing, they always say, you know, greed and fear are more powerful. Understanding that is more powerful than understanding free cash flow sometimes, you know, and market psychology. And similarly, unstructured physical tasks, and yesterday I was attending a session and somebody asked a professor from MIT, you know, will robots fold my laundry anytime soon? And the answer is unstructured physical tasks are actually very tough to automate. So I think when we think of the impact on education on society, how to reskill, et cetera, for the future, I think it's not a black or white answer. There's a gradient across various kinds of things that people are employed in and the need to, therefore, you know, invest more in education and so on and so forth. Some of the people we are always looking at whenever we talk about the fourth industrial revolution is the young people, the millennials. And we wanted to see how much people really knew about how much it's going to impact young people. And this is the question we asked them. They said, how many jobs do you think you're going to have by the time you're age 30? Well, we have a variety of people here in the audience. I'd like to ask you, just in your own heads, to think of how many jobs do you think a young person is probably going to have. And then I will ask for the results to come up and you can have a look. Okay, so, Link, basically we said 26% say that it's going to only be two, so it's going to be quite a salaryman kind of thing. Four jobs, 41% and 33% job more than six. I mean, this is, you know, in the old days, that we considered positive job hopping. You're rotating all the time because it means that in total, really, it's about 70%, you know, at least more than 70% of all the people who answer this poll believe that they're really young people are going to have to keep changing their jobs. Now, LinkedIn did an actual question to young people and asked them, on LinkedIn at least, you could argue that LinkedIn is already an old cohort. And they said that they thought about four jobs by the time they're 30. So are we going to see a world in which industries and people are actually going to be shifting around a lot? Definitely the salaryman, I think, is a thing of the past. But how much of this sort of industry hopping are we going to see? Do you see that, Jim and Trieu, in your industries? I think that I'm really admiring the present young people. And because up to not only 30, but up to even now I have only one job. So I think that what makes it exciting for life is to experience more and to explore more. And if you stay in one place, you will miss all that. And I think that the present young people, there is a fundamental change in their minds for the concept of the jobs. And in our time, we were thinking of surviving or earning money to survive, to support the family. But now the young people on the Internet, they have learned a lot. And they are changing all their ideas constantly for their lives, for the benefit of their lives and of their studies and their jobs. So I think that they are thinking that all the jobs are the same, is that they are experiencing more and they are shifting the areas. And I think it's a good phenomenon. And I appreciate that. There's a job change. We are already seeing this in Hong Kong. Apart from this new economy requirements, there are other factors that would lead to this more frequent job change. One is, of course, this work-life balance. Young people now are more aspiring for this work-life balance. Whereas in my days, like Chairman Xu, it's really more work-oriented. I have only done one job in my life. And then there is also this issue of remuneration and compensation. We are moving away from lifelong pensions and rewarding for long servers and so on. So that, again, removes a sort of previous barrier to job change, because job change would be something for the good. But because you are so attached to your pension, you'd rather not change a job. We'll have to face this phenomenon. I think the key issue is that for sure the old patterns of work, the old patterns of production are changing. For example, in the future, all of us might be doing two or three jobs at the same time. For example, William already referred to some of his partner sellers are office workers who have a full-time job. But on the side might be selling their handicrafts on Tokopedia, on Instagram, and other social media. There are accountants or other professionals who also happen to be hobby bodybuilders or hobby cosmetics people, right? And just by having 300,000 followers, they're getting remuneration for endorsing products or reviewing products. So I think the patterns of work are breaking down. Chief Executive Lam also mentioned work-life balance. I think the barrier between work and life will dissolve completely. Work will become your life, and life will blend seamlessly into work. It's inevitable. And other things like, we won't be sitting in offices anymore. We'll probably be sitting in different offices at different times of year, co-working spaces. We might be even living in different apartments at different times of year or shifting around a lot more. So things will become more fluid. That's, I think, the key issue. I can see you want to say something, Mr. Singh. Yeah, I think this may not be a bad thing. I have a counter to your view on it but to me, actually, I think if you put yourself in the shoes of a young person, the millennials that you surveyed, I actually think every job is like, you know, a huge learning experience. So when I joined Sequoia about 12 years ago, I couldn't believe my good luck. I couldn't believe that they would pay me to meet some of the brightest, best founders, learn from them, and every day, you know, learn about something new, new technology, new area. And I felt the same way in my prior job that I couldn't believe after business school that they would pay me to learn so much. So I think, you know, for millennials, you know, every job is a tremendous learning opportunity. And actually doing two or three different things may give them different perspectives and almost multi-disciplinary or different contexts to learn from and give them many more unstructured kinds of learnings from having that exposure only in their lives. So obviously we all want as, you know, if I were to put my hat on, you know, William was to put his hat on as CEO of a startup, he would want his team to stay as long as possible. But if you put the hat of, hey, how are these young people going to develop, you know, it may not be the worst thing for them to have tried two or three work environments and industries early in their career, it will set them up for success in the future potentially. So I actually want to make a conversion up to 28 years old. I have six jobs. So I breed Tokopedia in 28 years old, so I'm in that cohort. And I do think that most of the company is breed like a kingdom, but I actually want to breed a company like a university. University is actually well-known because of their graduation. So until today I still do this for every single team member that joined us. On their first day in the company, I actually tell them try to find your purpose in life. You find your purpose in life aligned with Tokopedia, then we both are lucky. But you find it somewhere else that closer to your heart, it will start the newest business or general organization. We are very happy for you as well. So we wish you to graduate and carry that Tokopedia flag as a chapter of your life. So I think that that should be the future of the organization. It's being a learning organization and it encorics your team member to actually graduate and change the world to say I'm resigning. I'm doing a different job. Okay, let me go to the audience now. What do you think? Yes, some questions already from the lady over there will start and we'll come around to you. Would you mind standing up, yes, and just saying your name and your affiliation? I'm from the U.S. My name is Hain Wang, a China India Institute. Chairman Xu and all of the panelists speak of the importance of creativity and imagination. In certain Asian societies, there's still the fear of daring to think differently, to speak openly, freely, differently. That seems to be a bit going backward. So do you see any fundamental changes in that aspect? I made my question a bit that often. No, no, that's a very it's a very good question. What do you think? It's true, because perhaps it's a stereotype but in many Asian cultures having a different opinion is seen as being disrespectful as well to perhaps your boss to the person who's running the project suggests another way of doing the project might be considered disrespectful. So what do you think? I think that the change is in the pipeline and in the process and my generation and even some people who are younger than me they still keep those old customs, but if you look at the people who were born in the 90s while they were born into a new world and of course we need to keep what was good for the traditional, from the traditional days. So I appeal to the parents in China you shouldn't do all for your children. You should let your children to grow on their own and I believe that in the future this will be changed and for the world. Did they say oh my goodness he's on to his next job again? Did your family support your setting up Tokopedia or did they think you were just going on to yet another crazy idea? They didn't understand. That's for sure but hopefully now they understand it. So therefore this idea of being imaginative and possibly therefore contradicting a nation culture wasn't there. I'd like to make a provocative statement. I would like to follow in Singapore Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew's footsteps and raise the issue of Asian values. Fairly controversial concept but as you can probably tell from my accent I'm quite Americanized actually I grew up in Germany between ages 3 and 10 and yes we need more dissent, yes we need more speaking out but let me say that there is such a thing as too much freedom right and I would encourage all of us in Asia not to go over a cliff so yes we need more vibrant discussion, we need debate but there's a limit. What will happen if you go too far is hate speech provocation for the sake of provocation and I think that's the last thing we want right now so some of the extremist free market orientation might argue against social norms or constraints on expression but again to me it comes back to personal responsibility right it comes back to our responsibility to the community not to destroy it right not to indulge our darker instincts or desires. I think it's a fair point that there's a difference between imagination and hate speech but I think they're quite different ends of the spectrum. Okay let's move on to the gentleman over here. Good morning Ignacio García Alves from Arthur de Little. I had one question in fact to know in which direction you think Asia will go because you can either have like you had factory Asia you can have brain Asia where you say I will compete against artificial intelligence because we have real intelligence if you see and we will provide you flexibility and etc or whether you believe that in fact you will go to the other direction in fact which is that you will use yourself a lot of artificial intelligence to upskill effect all of the jobs and more like domestic market. Well as far as Hong Kong because we are a very small and externally oriented economy so it would not be wise for us to stick to a particular aspect of our economic growth. So in this term of government what I have suggested and advocated is to go for economic diversification so while we are 92% manufacturing 92% services sector there's no reason why we could restart a bit on the industrialization in applying more technology and innovation and reviving some of the manufacturing areas that we are strong. So manufacturing is not a dirty word to you. Like textile and garment we are very strong and we can benefit from the advances in technology and creativity and design. Even though it's seen as a very low end manufacturing? No, manufacturing is not very high end it could be very high end. So to answer that question is I think my buzzword is some sort of diversified economic development will be good for an economy like Hong Kong. Okay, yes one more question here. Thank you very much. Vijay Purusamy from the QI Group in Hong Kong. Like last Chief Executive Lam and Chairman Zhu, given what we've been hearing about the changes going on what policy changes are happening in the education system what's happening now and Chairman Zhu what changes would you like to see in the policy of education? Thank you. Well I must say that I'm wearing the head of an entrepreneur but not a politician but from the Tsinghua we have X-Lab and we have the space for creation so we want to promote the imagination and the creativity so I believe that in the future we'll combine the curriculum with the practice system but put in a nutshell I hope that the outcome of our education reforms is to be able to nurture kids young people who have this ability to really think in a more electoral manner and also to be able to possess that international perspective because as economic globalization will continue to take place we do not need our young people to have that sort of perspective. Okay I'm afraid that we're going to have to wind things up we're going to do a last question for each of the panelists we've talked about the millennials doing a whole variety of jobs but those of us who are a little bit older we may need to reincarnate ourselves several times as well so I'll just go around the panel and see what sort of new person will they be in 10 years what sort of different job what sort of reincarnation will you be in Mr Limbong what would you imagine that you might be in 10 years I might be an android by then so cyborg do you think I'll be a cyborg by then I'll probably be somehow machine enhanced and there will be new biotechnologies implanted in my body and I think I'll have more of a role as a moral leader speaking from the heart rather than from the head Mr Sim there are many predictions that venture capital will change ICOs and blockchain automated crowd sourcing will change venture capital so we remain awake at night we always ask ourselves how we should evolve and change we don't know the answers but we keep trying to ask the right questions and keep asking ourselves what should we do in how we I think some parts of what we do in company building etc will not change even in 10 years but yeah there are many parts of investing that could become highly automated in the next 10 years part of what you do will be AI and you will be doing some other bit yeah no and we already use AI centered platforms for many kinds of decision making to aid what we do we already have platforms that will help us you know find new companies or calibrate data differently and so on and so forth so you know we know it will be different we don't know how it will be different and we keep trying to figure it out okay so you don't know what reincarnation is going to be I think it's too dynamic to know today what things will look like in 10 years what we do know is that it will be the pace of change will be faster than any of us anticipates and to William's point I think the learning mindset you know expertise is less valuable and learning is more powerful in the next decade and so I think the learning mindset will allow us to evolve Mrs Lam well you've had only one job as you said so having done a job as a chief executive of a Hong Kong special administrative region there is no incentive no incentive whatsoever for me to go into any other job so in 5, 10 years time I will take on Chairman Xu's advice lifelong learning and hopefully I will be a very tax-savvy grandmother so that I could continue to communicate with the younger generation great Chairman Xu I think it doesn't matter how the world changes one thing doesn't change the happiest person is the one with the biggest heart full of love whether it's 5 years or 10 years incarnation will still mean that I will embrace the world with the strongest love to accept whatever changes that may come still be leading Tokopedia or will you have moved on to yet another project no I think that I find the purpose of my life when I started Tokopedia but I'm for sure I think this model will continuously change technology will continuously change so one thing that I wish that never changed is that desire to continuously learn like a student and that desire to continuously have a sincerity to serve a teacher so 10 years from now I hope that I can continuously be that student and teacher mindset well thank you very much to all of you who have been here I think that we've had a fantastic lot of ideas but the most important thing is to keep learning and that means to keep on talking after this session thank you very much for attending