 Great. Okay. So I probably need some help. I am it is 931 am and I'm officially calling the meeting of a government governance organization legislation. Let's get that to order. So I will go around and should I do the roll call before I read pursuant to. I don't think it matters. Doesn't matter. Okay, so let's make sure we're all I can hear and be heard. I'm just going to follow my screen. Pat. I'm hearing in here and Lynn. Present. Mandy. I'm present. You are. Okay. Oh, hi. I was working on a video. Michelle. Present. And Jennifer is present. Okay, so we're all here. And I will. I will read the pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 extended by chapter 22 and 107 of the acts of 2022 and extended by chapter two of the acts of 2023. This meeting will be conducted via remote means member of the members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone. So in person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. And I don't see any members of the public here. And then if I could just ask you to make an announcement that we are recording the meeting. Oh yes, and we are recording the meeting. Thank you. Okay, so we'll maybe return to pub. We will return to public comment later in the meeting. If, if, if some members of the public join us. And so we're going to start with the proclamations and resolutions. It seems like. Do we anticipate that the town manager review process. We'll take maybe the bulk of the meeting or hopefully we can get through that. I'm trying, but that's the, oh, that's the, I'm sorry. That's the second item on the agenda. I was so we will begin with the charter review committee charge. I have to say I had a quest. No, didn't we refer that. Yes. Yes. Okay. On the agenda that I have. We adopted it on Monday. I thought we did. I was wondering why. Yes. I thought it was coming back to us for other things. That's why I put it on the agenda. No, that's great. I thought maybe I missed something. So it is, but I don't think it's urgent. Yeah. Okay. Then we can move on to the town manager evaluation and Pat. And Mandy, if you did that whoever did that, thank you very much. That was a lot to do the three versions. Hold on. I have a question. Did you do, I thought we did have one resolution or proclamation. Medical item. The, it comes later on just going down the agenda. I'm just going down the agenda. Should I do that or should we do the proclamations? Do what you're doing. You're doing fine. Okay. So town manager review should. We have three alternatives before us. Mandy or Pat, do you want to talk us through it? I'm going to let Mandy do that. Okay. So yeah, the, the, they're not organized really in any way, but, but the first, the first two pages I guess are what Lynn had proposed. And then there's two options that try to sort of schedule that. Well, follow the timings between. Like when things are due and when say, like when the counselors. Put for finish their and submit their evaluations. And then when Lynn has to have it in a council meeting, I tried not to compress some of that because that takes a while. And yes, we could really have the president under the gun, but that's not necessarily what we want to do. If we were to say, oh, the counselors can submit it on a Wednesday and by Thursday, they can be in the packet. Like we don't really want to do that. So I tried to keep some of those timings as, as spaced out as the original schedule had, but the big difference between alternative one and alternative two. The basic difference is I looked at when the council was doing stuff in meetings. And for the alternative one, I think it is the sort of shortest. You'll see that the Monday, the December 18th meeting includes reviewing the manager evaluation revisions that were discussed at a prior meeting, going into executive session and coming out of executive session and voting the contract all in the same meeting. The original schedule proposed had them in three different meetings over six weeks. I guess, well, I guess it would have been like four weeks had them on November 20th, December 4th, and December 18th, one of those on each of those meetings. And I put them all on the same meeting, which allows us to pop essentially the entire schedule back a full month, if not a little more because of that there is Thanksgiving in the middle, which is where the president would be compiling evaluations. So it's not ideal, but, but basically it's, and that schedule then leaves no leeway for needing a third meeting to review the evaluation document, to review the sort of evaluation summary, the letter that we adopt. And so what, what are the council's thoughts on that? Because it has us reading on December 4th, reviewing the initial memo on December 4th, revising on December 18th, going into executive session to discuss contract on December 18th, coming out and voting that contract in public on December 18th. So there's no leeway at all for anything in that quickest one. The second one, alternative two, which is a little bit more stretched out, has a little leeway, we could, we could move some things, but basically it uses December 4th and December 18th for two meetings for those three items instead of three meetings. I think alternative two puts the review on one day on December 4th, let me see what I did. Does the review, the revision review of the manager evaluation on December 4th and does the executive session and the public vote on the contract on December 18th, that executive session could be either the 4th or the 18th within that matter as long as the review is passed, but it does give if the review runs in, if that letter, the evaluation letter runs into more problems and needs a third meeting does have that extra day built in of the 18th to finish that. Both of them include discussing the self-evaluation of the manager. Last year we did not, we actually, because of timing, the council did not discuss that at a separate meeting. The second alternative puts it at a weird time because it has it, us discussing that after we've put in our evaluations. And so I think this committee could discuss whether or not we want to discuss and schedule a meeting, an agenda item to discuss the self-evaluation of the manager separate from the evaluation letter that comes after we write our evaluations. The problem with alternative two is if you want to discuss the manager's self-evaluation separately from an end before counselor evaluations are due, you either have to put counselor evaluations right after that discussion, so 14th or 15th because the reading period is on the 20th and then there's just not time for the president to draft the evaluation letter. Or the self-evaluation gets discussed October 16th because that's the last meeting before November 13th of the council. And that would, and that doesn't sit well with me personally. So in alternative two, I would probably eliminate the self-evaluation discussion. And I think in alternative one, you could potentially eliminate it too, but it doesn't fall as weirdly in alternative one if that, if my description makes sense because I have the counselor evaluation forms due on Friday the 17th and us discussing on November 13th. So you would have that discussion before the evaluation council has to file their evaluations in item in alternative one. I can answer any other questions, but basically I was looking to shorten this process in some sense as much as possible to put the manager's submission of the self-evaluation as late as possible. Thank you very much. That's a lot to put together. Michelle. Yeah, I second that. Thank you so much for doing this. My question is, did Paul see any of these alternatives yet? Okay. But I heard you just say the idea was to give him the most amount of time in these alternatives. So I'm sure, I'm sure he'll be happy with that. Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions? I actually had one. So because I've only been through one of that time manager evaluation in prior years before last year, did you discuss, did the council discuss the town manager self-evaluation? I mean, was that a usual? There was always up until last year for timing reasons. Yeah. There was always an evaluation. There was always a presentation. And the only reason I like, first of all, I'm totally in support of a shortened schedule. What I'm not in support of is stretching it all the way out to the 18th of December, because it doesn't give us any leeway. And so the thing that the town manager by the town manager orally presenting his self-evaluation, if you will, or highlights of his year or however you want to put it into a council meeting gives the public, even though they can read it, it still puts it out there in the more complete way to the public. And that's the only reason I personally don't like dropping it. Otherwise, we dropped it last year. I don't think it made any difference, frankly. Okay. And I did have another, in all these alternatives, is there still the same amount of time for the public to weigh in? Yes. There's the, if you look for that, so I sort of worked back from when are the council meetings and those things. And then I took Lynn's original schedule and sort of worked backwards from there trying not to. So the public would still have, if you look at alternative one, for example, October 23rd is that week is when everything's are finalized and that week is when things are distributed and then they are all due November 3rd. So that's distributed one week and then the Friday of the next week they are due. And that was mirrors what Lynn's original schedule proposed of finalized the week of the 18th and all due September 29th, 10 days later, depends on when they get sent. But I kept that, that relationship in the schedule. Okay. Thank you. That's, I think that's good. Are there any other questions? Because I, so I have a question. In the second, I just want to be sure alternative to, that means that we would begin the discussion of the town, the council evaluation so that we can go to the 18th if we need to, but it and would we go into executive session on the fourth? Because it's a concern that if we do that on the 18th and we don't, I guess we would have to reach agreement. So, so some options with alternative to that are not listed within this document. So, so right now alternative to proposes that the counselors submit their evaluations on November 10th. The manager submits his evaluation on October 30th. So manager submits his evaluation on October 30th. The counselors submit their evaluations on November 10th. On November 13th. The council has the presentation from the sound town manager on his evaluation, but our evaluations are already in. Just, just, you know, and so that's where it gets kind of weird. But the meeting, the, the early, the meeting before November 13th is October 16th. And so to discuss the manager's evaluation on the 16th would require him to actually file it two and a half weeks before the schedule and alternative to it would, it would lose that two and a half weeks. And so, so I wanted to bring out that weirdness, but to your question, Jennifer, the first, the, the reading period day would be November 20th. December 4th would, and so you'd read on November 20th and you'd discuss the draft evaluation letter and then Lynn would take those drafts and discussion back and revise that letter. And on the, and on December 4th, we would have a new revision of that letter. We would discuss that it is possible that that day could also include the executive session. I put the executive session on the 18th, but it could be on the fourth. It just depends on which day you want it. And then the 18th could, and in fact, the fourth could include the executive session and coming out to vote the contract if we wanted to do those on the same day, just in case, or the 18th could always include the vote of the contract. And then you would have, if the fourth, the letter wasn't finalized or the executive session, either didn't happen or needed to be continued for whatever reason, you'd have the 18th to pop those two, one or two or three, depending on how the agenda looks like to the 18th. And that's where that leeway comes in. It's just because of when meetings are scheduled. It's, it's that self-evaluation discussion, which we did not have last year that ends up at a weird time from when the council evaluations are done, unless what I didn't want to do is have them, the evaluations do on the 14th after said self-evaluation discussion and then require Lynn to have the evaluation memo basically done three or four days later, although I guess it doesn't go into the packet to the 20th, but it didn't seem right to give Lynn less than a week. So, so that's why it ends up with this weird schedule, but if we would move the self-evaluation discussion to the meeting prior to the 13th, we're moving it an entire month earlier, which doesn't resolve this shortening of the thoughts. I guess Lynn. Pat has her hand up. I'm sorry, I didn't see that. We've already read the town manager's self-evaluation. So it often feels to me like, okay, he's presenting what I've already read. And so if we could, so I would, I could support not including it, but I could go either way. Let me try something. I'm sorry, I should raise my hand. Oh, please, because I called it. Yes. One possibility is that on the night that we read I let me just say there is either either Paul should have the opportunity to make a presentation of his self-evaluation before anybody evaluates him, okay? Staff, whatever. Or the other option is we wait until everybody's done the evaluations. And on the night that we do the reading and have the discussion, first discussion of the memo, Paul also does a brief presentation of his self-evaluation of the major areas. And then we look at the summarization of our feedback about the major areas. Either one is not, I don't see how it fits, but anyway, I said before I'm all in favor of shortening this. I think the thing I would suggest is that we try to do the executive session on December 4th and report out that day. Okay. Yeah, I would be fine with essentially putting all except the goals that are listed on the December 18th for alternative two on December 4th and seeing if it can all get done. And if not, you move whatever doesn't get done to the 18th. It was a tight schedule to do it all on the 18th and left no leeway. This way it still compacts it, but leaves that little leeway, you know, it's still compact because you're done in December then now. You're done a month before the end of the year, but. It is, it is what it is. It's a hard time. But I think it still compacts it well that way. I like Lynn's idea of instead of this, you know, that I highlighted with a comment on November 13th, this town council discusses the self-evaluation. I like putting that on the 20th with the reading period. I like putting that on the 20th with the reading period. Because it starts everything together. And, you know, when I think of evaluations I've done of staff, you kind of discuss the self-evaluation with the staff member at the same time you're discussing the other things you've, you've compiled as to that evaluation too. And so it almost seems more logical to me to do it all at once, but I think it's important to note that the staff members are not aware of their belief of their performance at the same time, the council who's evaluating them presents their belief of their performance, at least in public in this case. I mean, public evaluations are just weird to begin with. But at least there's that balance going on on the same day. So, so I think I could support. That where it sort of is all on November 20th. And I think that's what I'd like to see. You know, in the past year. I've seen a call that allows him to sort of say, here's what I've done as manager for the past year to the public. You know, and, and then. We get to, in some sense to respond with our letter. I kind of liked that. Can I, can we just let's, with that in mind. Can we focus on the beginning of distribution? I wanted to make sure. Thanks. When does the town. So we distribute materials on the 16th. The week of the 16th. And the town manager. Self evaluation is not available to the 27th. I mean, in the letters that we've written in the past, I don't think our public has any clue about everything our town manager does. I don't think they even come close to having a clue. And yet we're asking them to evaluate him without seeing his own evaluation. And his goals. And so part of me as much as I, I mean, Paul was prepared to get us his self evaluation by the end of September. So. I almost wish that we would ask for the self evaluation. By the, by the time we send out. All of the material. So that the public. Is also looking. Not at a presentation, but is looking at. The self evaluation as well as the goals. That's just a thought and another option just to put it out there could be the possibility that Paul does a video. And we have a link to a video versus. The self evaluation. Just some thoughts. Yeah. Thank you. Michelle. I want to support Lynn's suggestion. And I also would take it a step further. And if it's possible in what goes out. To the public, there'd be a compilation of the town manager reports. That Paul or links or something to the town manager reports that Paul has put together, because. He does a tremendous amount of work that I think you're right, Lynn. Most people don't know about. And I think those town manager reports really highlight. And, and, and in a detailed way. What he does. So I would, I don't know how, or how that might get added in, but I would suggest we try to find a way to get those links to the town manager reports. And. Thank you. Mandy. You know. I guess I don't. Completely opposed such a plan, but. I know it's been tough. We set these goals. For a year of work. We didn't pass the goals till January of this year. And we're asking the manager to submit a self-evaluation in mid September. Or I guess with Lynn's proposal looking at this schedule. She would move the October 30 time to. Somewhere in October 16 or something. So we're asking him to submit a self-evaluation on goals that were intended to be done by December in mid October. And, and, and I guess with this one, the October 30th, what, what's two weeks, right? But. And then we complete an evaluation two months after he submits his self-evaluation in some sense. So we're asking him to submit a self-evaluation on goals that were intended to be done by December in mid October. And we're asking him to submit a self-evaluation in some sense, because if he submits in mid October. We don't have to submit. Our forms until November 10, maybe, although it might be able to be a little later. Who knows. I still struggle with. How do we, how do we take into account the things that have happened from the time he submits his self-evaluation to December 30th? Or how do we give him an opportunity to come back and say, hey, I now have finished these other things, right? Which is why I'm trying to compact the thing as much as possible so that hopefully there's not a lot of, you know, in the last seven weeks that you've been evaluating me, I've done these 12 other things that go into the evaluation that none of us have that opportunity. So that's where I struggle. It makes sense to me in my head. To have something available to the public before the public evaluates him, just like we want the self-evaluation available to us before we evaluate him, right? But I struggle with the length of time. He's supposed to be given to complete his goals that we're basically not giving him if we tell him to submit his evaluation in October. Well, thank you, Lynn. So I certainly don't speak for Paul. And I want to be clear about that. But my sense would be by the middle of October, he has a pretty good grasp on what he's going to be able to get done by the end of December and what he's not. And that he can foreshadow that. I, this whole, I don't want to go into the issue of goals versus the evaluation period. So we could make sure that he understands that in his self-evaluation with a lens of reality, he projects what he will finish by the end of December. And therefore we have, you know, a view of it. I just want to add, the recent staff losses at this point are bringing a serious lens of reality about what's going to be able to be done and not done. And that's, we're seeing that in more ways than one. We're all seeing it. Thank you. I mean, I think, yeah, so what you're saying is he, we could ask a few, I mean, I think the video suggestion and the links to the town manager reports are excellent. You know, I, the town manager reports to council are really comprehensive and not that everyone who submits feedback about the town manager performance is going to go through all of them, but I think that the people that are taking the time would probably be interested in least looking through them. And so I think both those are excellent suggestions. So are we leaning, you know, towards the alternative to with some tweaks? And is this something that the next council wants to take up just if there's, I mean, it does seem like what makes sense is to evaluate the town manager right after, you know, at the beginning of the year, but that's probably not feasible for a lot of different reasons, especially when you're seating a new council. Yeah, they don't, they don't have a basis to evaluate them. Right. Right. But it is very, it is problematic. You're evaluating someone after three quarters of the year, basically. So rightly, and they, he can project out what he, what he will accomplish in the last, let's say. Let me just see whether I've got this now. What we would do is take under February, under Friday, October 27th. Where the town manager emails written self evaluation to all town counselors. That item would go up. Actually. Somewhere around October 16th. Because we have to have it in order to do the others. And I maybe you can just say, yeah, there you go. Town manager emails. So that, and behind that I would put in parentheses. Option for video. And in actual link then to the performance document, and then we would move that up there. And then we get everything. On. I'd have to go down. The schedule says November one Wednesday, November one. Okay. On Wednesday. Yeah. And I believe in the past he actually has included links. To his town managers reports. That's my recollection. Without going and looking. And so that we would move that up there. And then we get everything. On. I'd have to go down. On Wednesday. Yeah. Okay. So down here we have town manager again, emails written self evaluation to counselors October 30th. So that needs to get deleted. So by November one. All of these evaluations come in. And we share them. With the council. Meantime, the council, I mean, get it. I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, depending on the council, their instrument can happen anytime. And then the council instruments. Would be received by November 10th. And I just want to be straightforward and tell you. Not all counselors get their things in on time. I spent a lot of time last year chasing. Evaluations. Then we don't do anything on November 13th. So we would take these things out of. I mean, you cannot rate this thing in three days. Or at least I can't maybe somebody else who's a. So. So we would take these. Things out of. Just. Highlighted. Sorry. Yeah. And part of the reason I want to preserve the 13th. Without getting into the evaluation. I mean, I think we're going to have a schedule where basically a ton of financial stuff is going to happen that night. That's probably going to be the night where we discuss. What the carryover is meaning not carry over. I'm sorry. The certification of free cash and how we are going to spend it. And any number of other things. It's a kind of a financial night, if you will. And then on the 20th. And then on the fourth, we would try to wrap up the reading period and do everything else. And if we need the 18th, we need it. So on the fourth, going down to the 18th. We would try. We would, the first bullet, the second bullet. The third bullet. And the fourth bullet all would we try to move them to the December fourth. And December 18th. Only if needed, would we do it. So you can actually strike. Yeah. If needed. Thank you. Great. I think this issue. Editing this. Yeah. Wow. Mindy Joe has her hand up. Yeah, I was just saying, yeah, are you, I was going to call Mandy Joe next. Yeah, Mandy. I just had a comment about the. The town manager reports. There's just a webpage. I think Athena can, can, can confirm this on the town manager's webpage. There's just a link to all of the reports. So. Even the email that gets distributed to everyone could just include that link. It doesn't have to be from Paul. It could just be from. Right. Whatever sending out. Hey, do you want to evaluate. Man, whatever that, that template is. You know, I could have the link to here have been his manager reports for the year. Click here, you know, without needing the self-evaluation at the point. I'm not going to argue that that means we can move the self evaluation back two weeks, but we don't need his self evaluation. To point to all of the manager reports. Right. Thank you. And should we also, where it says, um, um, um, the, the email's self evaluation to all counselors. Should we. There include or would just be verbally communicated to Paul that he can include project out to the end of the year. Yeah. Put a note there just for now. And also, it's town manager self evaluation report is posted. It's, it's not just to all town counselors. It's a public document. It's obviously at that point it's a public document anyway, but we, if we're going to post it. That way we can have a link to it. Okay. Let me just say, I know that this. Is it. This is a change, but I think it's a really good change. Yeah. Mandy. Um, yeah, I just want to go back to the November. 20th meeting. I believe it is. Um, That is scheduled to have a public forum and a reading period and council business. You'll notice that I changed the timings of things. So I just wanted to talk about that. Um, I think. To save. Potential dead time. And to. Eliminate. Um, I think it's a good idea to have a meeting. And then we'll have extra sets of minutes and agenda postings. The forum, which is always posted as a separate agenda because of how the charters written. Should be the first thing that evening. And then from there, we moved to the reading period and that the reading period should be included in the regular council. Meeting agenda. So that we're not sitting there with, oh, the reading period was listed for five 30 as a separate agenda. And then we moved to the meeting agenda for regular business until seven 30, but everyone's done at six 30. And then we're there for an hour and not being able to do stuff. So I would highly encourage that the reading period just, just be part of the regular agenda that is listed. On the agenda and the agenda can be made clear that we're starting with a reading period and we will move to business whenever that is done. If that's an hour, if that's an hour and 20, if that's two, it's that, but then we've eliminated. We've eliminated the regular meeting for a specific time. But I think that we're going to have some downtime where everyone's gathered, but we can't do anything. I think in the past we've given. An estimated time. We either posted the regular meeting for a specific time, but I think having a specific time when regular business is going to begin will be helpful because of people tune in earlier than. They're just staring at a note on there. And it's hard to know when to expect that we're going to have a regular meeting for a specific time, but it's hard to know when to expect that we're going to have a regular meeting for regular business. So I think that's helpful just in terms of the public participation. I think we can estimate a time, but if they're separate agendas, we can't move forward. And if we've estimated and we've got 20 minutes, we could do like the town manager report and committee reports and things if we're wanting to, but we could get other things done. Like an idea of when to expect when public comment will come up. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have any problem with this. I don't have any. I don't have any problem with this. I don't have any problem with this. And yet I hate moving the reading period later. But five is. In many people's minds a little early. And maybe so maybe we move the public forum to 530. Mandy. So another option. I believe that would be allowable under Robert's rules would be to do the reading at five. Notice the public forum for a specific time. I think we could do that with a formal recess. This meeting is in recess until the end of the public forum. We are now calling to order the public forum, something like that. Where, but it's still just two agendas to eliminate that downtime. Yeah. Thank you. Linda, would you be comfortable with that? I'm totally comfortable with that. I think that's a good idea. So what times are you proposing for these? So we would start reading at five. I would post the public forum for 630. And I think that's a good idea. I think we could do that with a formal recess. This meeting is in recess until the end of the public forum. We are now calling to order the public forum, something like that where, but it's still just two agendas to eliminate that downtime. Yeah. Thank you. That and Linda. Would you be comfortable with that? I'm totally comfortable with that. Yeah. I think that's a good idea. And we certainly know every minute of these council meetings is precious. So we don't want to be. Sitting there for 20 minutes. We have a lot to do with it from now to the end of the year. Okay. So do you think we're ready for a motion to. We're ready for a motion to recommend this to the town. Yeah. To the town council. Yeah. I move their motion. Okay. I move that we recommend. To the town council. To the town council. Option. To. As modified. Yes. Or as modified. I don't care. To the town council. As the calendar. As presented. Just make it clean. Is there a second? The answer was seconds. Okay. Any further discussion. Okay. So we'll proceed to a vote. Lynn. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mandy. Hi. Hi. Michelle. Hi. And I'm an eye. So it passes. Great. And I really want to thank me and Joe for taking. And have us think about it. So thanks a lot. Yeah. And I think this is a. Much, you know, improved. Right. Thank you. Thank you. And we will either take this to the council on. Monday or we'll take it on this October 2nd. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Great. Okay. So moving to our next agenda item. We get to. We'll be proclamations and resolutions. So the first is Medicare for all. And is the hope that these will go to the council for the. 18th. Okay. Yes. So we'll just wait till. Athena has a chance to bring it up. Thank you. Yes. We'll have three today Medicare for all for the week and heritage month. And the suicide prevention. Was there a new Medicare for all. A brand new document that came from the community sponsor or were there edits? You have to ask Lynn. Okay. I don't have a new document, but I'm now checking to see what Barbara has sent us. And I have edits. I'm just trying to find them in my own filing system. Okay. Barbara said I'm waiting to hear back from Kathy on the federal. Signing on the. Federal bill. She said, yes, I'll rewrite the resolution. But, but we don't have. We don't have the rewrite. I think we're still. Okay. Okay. Okay. Kathy is not a sponsor. I go back to who. Now that it's been referred to this committee, who has the ability to modify stuff. Kathy is not a sponsor. Myself Pam Rooney and Dorothy Pam are sponsors. Right. And it seems to me that. Well, the community sponsor. Could come in and ask. I'm going to suggest that we. Ask Barbara to attend and see if she has any other changes. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Go ahead. We have, we have postponed and postponed this. And it's a responsibility of the sponsors and the community sponsors to have communicated. The community sponsor doesn't need to be here if they've done their communication work with the other sponsors. So I'm hesitant to, to wait another week. I will do that if that's the majority of the opinion, but I'm getting tired of the laxadaisical. Not just with this group and including myself, because I turned one in with some missing things too. So I stand. I'm correcting myself as well. But I don't want to postpone it. Okay. Fine. Michelle. I think Mandy had her hand before I did. Okay. Oh, I thought it was residual. Yeah, Mandy. Yeah. So. I think this committee has to respect the council sponsors, because that's why it's in front of this committee is because someone from the community found counselors to sponsor it and put it together. And it was submitted to the president and referred to this committee under the rules. I think last meeting. We asked Lynn, I said I'd contact Barbara and I've had, I've been too busy to do so. And I hadn't realized it was on this agenda, but I think we also indicated that Lynn should encourage Barbara to speak to the three counselor sponsors at this time. I have not heard from Barbara and I will say that's not just Lin's fault. It's my fault too. But I haven't heard from. Pam or Dorothy and I'm not sure anyone on this committee has to say, well, pull it waiting. There's things. So, so yes, there's an issue potentially with communication, but I think we have to follow our processes. And what Lynn has said that Barbara has issues with is from someone who is not a sponsor. And, and I know in the past, this committee. And. The council. And the president has pulled things from agendas that have made it out of this committee at the behest of a counselor that was not a sponsor of that item without talking to the sponsors and the sponsors were very. Not happy with that because it didn't seem to follow the process when you sponsor something. You should at least be kept aware of. If something, if the president's going to pull something or not, or if something is doing that. And so I guess what I'm saying is, I believe the council sponsors are ready to go forward and it is not this committee's. Duty or within its purview to say no to that. That's fine. Michelle. Yeah, I'll just add that. I think if there's someone who's providing information that's not a sponsor, they can, they can talk about that when it gets to council. And also just had a question. Were the, or was the community sponsor. Invited to either last meeting or this meeting. By either. The sponsors or the chair of the committee or anyone. Like, do they know that the meeting is happening? Because that's part of our process too. Right. Is that we invite. Community sponsors to GOL. So a part of me does feel like if they haven't been formally invited to this meeting or to a meeting that it's. That is sort of. Different than the process that we would normally take. And so I would want them to have that opportunity. Previously I had reached out to Barbara. To come to the meeting. But not for this meeting. I have not done that for this meeting. But the one when we had it on the agenda two weeks ago. And bothered. Oh, okay. Well, that's great. I didn't realize that. Yeah. Mandy. That's residual unless we're talking about the sub. Residual. Yeah. So I have a question. The community sponsor. Asked. If they could make some changes. So then wouldn't it. Is that what happened? So wouldn't they. You know, It sort of be pulled back and the changes would be made. And then it would be brought again. So the weird part is until this was presented to the council and forwarded by Pam Rooney, we were in contact with the community sponsor and said, we would sponsor this resolution. The community sponsor gave the go ahead. Pam Rooney said, here we go. And as far as I know, I'm not going to sponsor it all about any desired changes. And that's where I think as a sponsor at the council, I'm feeling. Inappropriately left out of a loop of conversations that are happening outside of our sponsorship. Between the community sponsor and others on the council when it's sitting in a committee. You know, if, if the community sponsor came to the committee or if it came to the committee, it would be able to work something out. But as far as I know, the community sponsor has not contacted the three counselors that have agreed to ensure that it got on an agenda because that's how you get it on an agenda. And so I, I don't know how to respond to that, Jennifer, because I haven't heard. But how do we know they want to change it then? I guess that's where I'm confused. Who is that communicated to. I, I happened to run into Barbara down to. I, I think we can do whatever the sponsors would like to do it this time. Okay. So. I mean, do we want to. So there's been no official channel to amend what's before us. Correct. So I guess it's, do we want to give. The courtesy of another meeting or go, I mean. So it would be then a matter of one of the sponsors. Contacting the community sponsor. So Mandy is one of the sponsors. I'm sorry. I'm jumping ahead, Michelle. I apologize. Go ahead. No, I just, I don't think it would be appropriate for us to delay this. I think we have to take it as it is. And. And it is what it is. In my opinion. So, um, well, I bounce it back to Mandy in the sense of, I want to know what you want to do as a sponsor. I think we should go forward. Many of my changes can be seen as GOL work. There are some that are not, and I'm happy not to do those. And, and talk to Dorothy and Pam about potentially changing them. I can disclose what they are. But, and, and this committee can decide on those, but most of them are just more of a GOL thing than anything. Um, Athena. And, and then if, oh, Pat, you're. But in ski. And then, so if community sponsors contact the council sponsors prior to the adoption by the town council, somebody can make amendments on the floor when it comes to council. Right. Yeah. I mean, it. It feels a little, um, I mean, I do feel a little uncomfortable, but if the community. Sponsor then has not gotten in touch as far as we know with any of the council sponsors to make a change. Okay. So do we need to do a straw poll or we're just going to go ahead and. Go ahead. Go ahead. It's on the agenda. Okay. Um, Mandy, does there anything, should we go through it kind of line by line or is there anything you want to add, you know, ask that we look at. Um, yeah, I can go through the recommendations I've got. The first one is to add the sponsors to the, to the resolution. I'm not sure why it wasn't in there to begin with. Um, like we normally do. So that would go between the title and the first whereas. Council sponsors, counselors, Hanakie Pam and Rooney, and community sponsor, Barbara Pearson. Do you want me to go through all of mine or do you want to know? Okay. Cause my next one's towards the end of the page. So if anyone has anything. Yeah. Okay. Whereas. So we'll take a minute. Well. Any comments on the first whereas. Um, The second. You asked to that have a period on the second. Between the you and the S. We could even just spell it out as United States health outcomes. If we wanted to. I was thinking that because we've used, I mean, we've gone back and forth in the past, but since we've already used that. Um, in the first whereas. But either way, I think. What would you like us or United States? I think United States more consistent. Okay. So reading down. My next change is in the whereas that starts the Massachusetts Senate and house. Okay. On the second line of that one. Um, it says, uh, establish a healthcare trust funded in part through payroll, a payroll tax that is less costly to most Massachusetts. I think the verb tense is wrong. I think it should read that would be less costly. To Massachusetts residents. It's just a verb tense issue. Yeah. So you had no others in that paragraph. Nope. That was it for the page. Okay. Where I have more. Is everyone else cool with moving on? Could we go? I'm sorry. I'm not. Okay, go back up. Yeah, thanks. Thank you. Oh wait. And on this one, I guess it is on the same page. Sorry. My paid pagination is different. Which one. So I have changes to the one that starts Amherstown meeting past. Did we show a few minutes? Yep. Seconds. Keep going. Thank you. Okay, Mandy. Okay. So in that paragraph, I think it requires two warehouses. So. I would create a new whereas that starts after the first and where the whereas would start with the. So we're in, you know, so that would be a new sort of paragraph. And whereas. We'll need the and attached to the prior paragraph. Athena. And I would actually delete the and again from this one. Again, it's wasn't town meeting that voted again. It was. Other. It was the electorate, which is different from town meeting. And I. I would use the word voters. Not citizens. In that one. Should Massachusetts go on the line above? It's a spacing thing. I think it's just the way it spaces. Okay. Long. Should we go to the next page? Sorry. I have my hand up, Jennifer. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see. Yes, Michelle. That's okay. In the whereas where there's the cap, the capital and. I think there's another one of those two. Yeah. I don't know. I'm dead. Some things. The first one didn't. Or the now didn't bother me so badly. But the and. Capitalized. I just don't see a reason for that. And to be capitalized. I mean. I understand the purpose of accentuating something, but why is that? And I mean. I don't know. How do you feel about that, Mandy? It's a sponsor. Go ahead and change it. Yeah. I'm kind of with you, Michelle. Yeah, I am too. I mean, I don't mind that. Were we going to leave the now. I would get rid of them both personally. I'm fine with getting rid of them both. Just making them normal. Just looking for others. I think they might be the only two. Yeah. There is one underlined in that paragraph before the and that we just changed that has a knot underlined. Also an emphasis thing that we could get rid of the underlining for. Making all the personality out of these things. But we clearly support by. Resolution. So. That's a statement. Okay. So we go to the next page. Yeah. So my next one, this next set is where there's some substantive stuff added that I don't have to. It's okay with whatever that. Committee goes with, but the, in the absence, we refer to the state and. Somewhere by the state, which includes continuation of federal funding and. I'm a stickler that Massachusetts and others are commonwealths, not states. Technically, I mean, it's a weird distinction, but I always find it strange referring to Massachusetts. It's a state when it's a commonwealth. So it's a little finicky. And it's capitalized. It would be. Yeah. And. And then I had a. So essentially a sentence I would add at the end of that, but it's, it's an and sentence. So it's not a different whereas. So it would be by the commonwealth, which includes continuation of federal funding. And which may not be a commonwealth. So it would be by the commonwealth, which includes continuation of federal funding. And which may permit the town to reallocate millions in taxpayer money away from health insurance costs and into other programs, expenses and investments for the town. Too fast. Add. But. If the committee thinks that's not appropriate to be added now. I can do that. I think it's fine. You're a sponsor. And you're making a substantive change in front of the committee. I think that's fine. So I will read it slowly. Thank you. And which may permit the town. To reallocate millions. In taxpayer money. Away from health insurance costs. And into other programs. To reallocate millions. Comma expenses, comma and investments for the town. And then we end this one with a paragraph because the now therefore is next. We had to end it with a period. I mean. Hey. How many ans are in the sentence? A couple. Okay. If you're good with it. It's two clauses. None of which are one of which is not a full sentence. And then there's a list, which requires an end. We're not nothing precludes run on. Governments are great with run on sentences, right? Including run on policies run on. And run on meetings. So my next one was to actually name the bill in the now therefore. So it would be the Amherstown council. The Amherstown council in. Now therefore be it resolved that the Amherstown council endorses and supports. Bills. It's S seven 44. And H 1239. Each titled an act establishing Medicare for all in Massachusetts. Is this repetitive? It kind of is. Yeah. Do you want to. That's fine. And then the last paragraph just needs a different. Set up. Yeah. So the last paragraph should be be it further resolved, not and further. And then it needs reworded to put the highest offices first. So president Biden. Do you like the president of the United States or president? We just normally say president Biden. Oh, it doesn't go there. Oh, sorry. One line down. So it would be president Biden and then it's secretary of health and human services. Is who the secretary is. I'll ask you to spell that in a second. I will once you get it. That's a. Should that say us secretary. It might want to it's B E C E R R A. And us before secretary. Yeah. And then. Then senators, Markey and Warren. Representative McGovern. It was just in the wrong order. From what we do. And then Massachusetts governor Healy. And I think we might be close to the right order after that. Yeah. And then state, we would add the word state in front of senators Coma Ferdin, Eldridge. State. And state for state reps. And then it would be. You know, I think we might be close to the right order. And then we would add one. Sorry. Everything else there gets deleted. But then I said, and members of the joint committee on healthcare financing, because we normally include the committee that the bills are in. Joint. Committee on healthcare financing. Which is the committee, the bills are in. Do you want it to go to the. Massachusetts secretary of HHS. We normally do that. I basically took this list and the only thing I added was the joint committee, because that's a typical thing we do when we're talking and referencing specific bills. Is we send it to the whole committee. And should we also have after Sabados of the word and. Oh yeah. Yeah. I get points. For that one. Yeah. Sorry for all the changes. No, it's good. I mean. So Athena after Sabados. We need the word and. No. Yeah. Yeah. And members of the joint committee. Yeah. I get a point for that. Yeah. Doing GOL points. Yeah. We should really keep track of them throughout the year. And at the end of the year have like a reward ceremony or something. Well, we're all on the council next year and we're all on GOL. We could do that. Or we could do it for the month. I guess. Well. Michelle will be busy with her life at nine 30 on Wednesday at the end of the year. I'm still going to come to every GOL meeting. Yeah. We could poster honorarily in the attendees. Yeah. Okay. So that looks good. So is there a motion. To adopt. The resolution. To declare. To declare. Right. You're consistent actionable. Go ahead. Move to declare the resolution supporting an act. Establishing Medicare for all in Massachusetts. Clear, consistent and actionable. A second. Second. Okay. Any further discussion. So we'll go to a vote. Michelle. Hi. And I'm going to slip away for a minute, but I. Okay. Mandy. Hi. Lynn. Hi. And I'm an eye. Okay. So we will recommend and then. I guess let the community sponsor know it will be on the agenda. They want to. Okay. Thank you. And since it was unanimous here. It goes on the consent agenda. And we just read the last few questions. Okay. So if someone wants to pull it. Yeah. Oh, that's right. Someone might pull it. Okay. So we will move on to the Puerto Rican heritage month. Is that a proclamation or resolution? Probably a proclamation. And I don't think we have a community spot. Sponsor here, Michelle. Sorry. I just want to just flag us on that. What you just said, Lynn, which is that. It goes on the consent agenda. If it's been unanimously approved and committee. Is that a rule? I know that came up recently. That is one of our rules. Okay. All right. Cause it may be controversial. So I don't know. And then they just pull it, which is fine. And sometimes there are points where. Sometimes. When I learned that something is controversial. I don't know. But there are points where sometimes. When I learned that something is controversial or being. Or is going to be amended. I'll just take it off. Even before we make the motion. Yeah. Yeah. Great. A lot can happen between Wednesday and Friday. Yes, it can. The world can change. Okay. The Puerto Rican heritage month. Proclamation. Yeah, I don't. Mandy. Are you a sponsor? I'm not Lynn is so I noticed that this is from 2022. I don't have it. And the reason it hasn't been updated is because I've. Been trying to be in touch with the schools. About what their plan is. And I keep getting. At least from the person at the school district that is in charge. That they haven't come up with their plan. So. I. I first, I feel I would really badly if we didn't do this. At the same time. They haven't given us an actual date. So I suppose what we could do is amend this. Quickly. To basically leave the date blank. Or something I, I'm open to suggestions, but the 18th is the last council meeting where we could pass it. And still have a reading. If they have an event. And then do we ask for permission from the council to amend it with the date? Once we know. Yeah. Okay. Mandy has her hand up. Maybe she has a suggestion. Yeah, I mean. I guess one thing I don't know is a couple of things. Number one, I think the last whereas the five years ago probably needs changed. I forget. Hurricane Maria was. It was 2018. No, 2017. So I think that needs to be to six years ago now. We need to make sure we update that one. And that one we can do once, once Lynn looks up when Hurricane Maria was. September 23rd this year is a Saturday. So I guess the question I have is, is there a specific. Day celebrated throughout the United States. Or in Puerto Rico for as Puerto Rican heritage day. Or do we normally just declare the day that we celebrate it that we celebrate it as that day. And then we fly the flag for the week after. If it's what we do or what the schools do, and when they do their ceremony, it's probably not going to be the 23rd because that's a Saturday and they always do it during the school. So we could. Yes, that it might be the 22nd or something. I think Paul's manager report had a potential. Date in there that they were looking if I vaguely remember that from Monday. I don't know. Let me see if I can find that the hurricane Maria was 2017. So that would be six years ago that that needs changed too. And then the vote here could be clear, consistent and actionable with dates to be added prior to the council meeting or something like that. Right. Where's the hurricane Maria. But you're right. If Paul had it on his report, he might. Yeah. That would be. Are the sponsors the same this year? Anybody who wants to be a sponsor with me is more than welcome. I was just trying to get it done. Because nobody has officially signed on. Except for me. No, no one else has said anything. But I mean, you know, I don't want to. Make an issue out of it, but just the school. They're not here. You're the only sponsor this time. Just do it. It's okay. All right. The proclamation is what's important, not who's sponsoring it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So singular, not counselors. Even though you do the job of counselors. In the town manager report, it says tentatively scheduled for September. 22nd. Yes. Part of the issue. Make a singular for Grisner, counselor Grisner. Yeah, thanks. So I think we could put the 22nd and then the week of the 22nd to the. Week. Friday to Friday. When. Yeah. According to Microsoft Bing. Is the second Sunday in June. Interesting. It doesn't work for the session then. Sort of, but not really. Not on Sunday, but they're in session in June. Yeah. Okay. So. If no other suggested amendments. And is there usually a community sponsor? I'm sorry. Is there usually a community sponsor? You know, there wasn't on this. In the past. Okay. Should we move? Okay. Do we have a motion to declare a motion to recommend? I'll make the motion to declare the Puerto Rican heritage day proclamation clear, consistent and actionable. Depending. Date confirmations. No, as amended pending date confirmation. A second. Second. And you're right. It's, it's not to recommend it's to declare. No. No. I don't want to get it to stand corrected. Okay. We'll move to a vote. Michelle. I. Lynn. I. Pat. I. And Mandy. I. And I am an eye. Okay. Great. And we have one more and. It's this. Suicide prevention. Resolution or proclamation? I'm sorry the dogs are barking, but it's a result. Well, we suggested it being a resolution. I did send a red line version on Monday, but it is not in the packet. I sent it to Lynn, Athena, and Pat. You're right. It's not this one? No, it's not. With the spam crossed out? Mm-mm. Oh. Hang on, I'll bring it up. I'm sorry. Relax. It's okay. Thank you for your patience. No problem. Thank you. Oh. So I just, if I could, would it be appropriate to go through some of these? Yes, please do. Okay. So I took the conversation that we had at our last meeting and made some changes based on the feedback. The first being that this felt like more of a resolution than a proclamation, particularly because we weren't like having any, we weren't proclaiming anything. So I changed the title there to reflect that. I also took this first whereas it's still in the resolution. I just moved it so that it felt to me stronger lead to have suicide as the 10th leading cause of death first, given it's a resolution. And I updated the numbers. Pat had suggested that I take a look at the latest numbers. So I went ahead and did that. And I'm glad I did. Thank you, Pat. I also changed committed suicide to died by suicide, which is the language that is used. And then you'll see where I moved down the first, the original whereas about suicide prevention awareness month. And then I also moved the raising awareness and providing education. And we all have a role to play as the last of the whereas is just to sort of say, like this is the lead into what we're resolving to do. And then, all right, here was where I just needed a little help. So I went through, I did a search for all of the suicide bills that are out there right now. But before I say that, I received some feedback actually from town manager Buckleman's partner who has some expertise in these things. And her suggestion was that in particular, this act, the first one here about student identification cards, she thought that it was saying that there was something particularly suicideogenic about being a college student. When there's not college students actually have lower suicide rates than mostly anyone else. And she went on. But keeping the particulars of her reasoning aside, what I realized is I don't feel like without having more consultation with people who really understand the best ways to approach this matter that including particular bills may not be the best way to go. So my question to the committee is, have we had a resolution in the past that didn't support particular legislative bills that are in play? And would it sort of weaken the resolution to not have those? Mandy. Yeah, I can't answer your first question because there's so many resolutions. I can imagine there's been at least one that doesn't support particular bills, but I can't off the top of my head point you to one. But given our conversation from last time, Michelle, and how many when you just search for suicide prevention in the legislature, how many bills come up, it seems like this might be a case where instead of picking one or two, the last clause you have here, you could almost read this one, the Amherstown Council urges its legislative delegation to continue to propose and support legislation that raises awareness about suicide prevention, intervention and training, and maybe just leave it at that because there are so many different ways to do that already proposed. I love that idea. And that's what I was sort of leaning toward as well is I'm not trying to weaken the resolution by any means, but I do think that that does say we urge continued for our delegation to continue to propose and support. And I won't be on council next year at this time, but perhaps I would like to as a community sponsor to be able to strengthen this even more by adding some sort of event in September and trying to help organize something like that, but I didn't wanna not have this this year. So that's... You give me, can you give me the wording again, what you'd like to change here? And we have had resolutions that don't support a bill. We did one for Ukraine. Oh, right. So it's not unprecedented. So I think we would just, Athena, be removing like everything after supports up into urges. So I'm sorry. So then we would take either urges or supports out or just urge so that the Amherstown council urges. So take out supports and yeah. And that really works well for me if that feels good for others. I also wanted to potentially add like, do we ever send maybe to the Board of Health or to Cress or cause this seems particularly appropriate to maybe send to all, I don't know all of our kind of actually police fire. Like it really, I can say for sure, all of those folks are involved in these matters. Mandy, about them. I didn't have a comment on that. What I wanted to say, Michelle, is your changes here are fantastic. I wanted to thank you for making them and really thinking about the order, right? Like the order you've done and the change from just moving things around, I think makes the resolution a lot stronger and all. So I just wanted to say thanks for that. Thank you. Thanks. And any response to Michelle's question about including? I don't know. I don't think it's necessary because we're talking about supporting legislation and the issue is really critical. So I think where I'll just say is like I think the resolution is really pointing to the town supporting and raising awareness around suicide prevention. And so that's where I thought having our first responders and our Board of Health, you know, so they see that we're, they're already doing that work, it feels like to me. So it's just sort of telling them like that we're also supporting the work that they're doing in the community regarding prevention and awareness. Mandy. Yeah, so I don't know whether we've done it in the past or not, but in case we haven't, that's not to say we can't, right? And I look at the first now, therefore be it resolved that says the council's committed to raising awareness and will work with local public health and safety officials. And so from that point of view, while the second further resolved is focused on state legislation, the first one is local. And so I could see an argument if Michelle wanted to, to be adding the Board of Health and our public safety officials, the public safety departments. I would like to, if people are okay with it, I would like to. That's fine, fine, yeah. No, not there, but in the now there. Oh yeah, no, I think that I was thinking about in this, in this, oh yeah, you're right. Yeah, I thought it was gonna be. You don't want to send a copy to them? I do, I do, you know. Oh, okay, I'm sorry, I'm thinking about it. I'm saying because we were forwarding them up above, we can put it there. Yeah. I was thinking about naming and gotcha, sorry. And did you want to put Cressin? I would love to put, yeah, all of them in, yep. And Pat and Jennifer, I just got a call that I need to respond to. So after we vote this, I'm just gonna have to turn my camera off for a moment and I'll come right back. That's fine, thank you. One other thing, stickler for this, I think the first whereas, again, U.S., did we say that chin-up period? We said we were gonna write you in the United States. The very first at the top, who was the first whereas? I thought we were gonna, yeah, spell it out. Jennifer gets a GOL point. And then always when I see you ask without a, it's just one of those things that bother me without the periods. Okay. So one more, and this is just for Athena, it needs the voted language added at the bottom. Oh, I got it. Yeah. Oh, okay, there we go. It was on a different page, that's all right. I was making those little changes while we were talking. Okay, thank you. Okay, is there a motion? I moved to declare the, again, I don't know, suicide prevention. And a resolution. Resolution and support. I can't see the title. So suicide, the resolution and support of suicide awareness and prevention as clear, consistent and actionable. Second? Second. Okay. Any further discussion? Okay, we'll move to a vote. I'm just going in. I thought you were seconding it, Jennifer. I lost my tone too, I'm thinking. No, no, no, up and down the line. This is, no, Lynn's seconding it. Okay, Mandy. I. Pat. I. Lynn. I. Michelle. I, and thank you. Yeah, and I am an I. And thank you, Michelle. Okay, so you can, we'll see you in a minute. Okay, so we got through, I've done the proclamations and resolutions. So the next item is to get back to reviewing the rules of procedure and the recommendations by the clerk of the council. And I guess we're particularly looking at section seven. Motion. Section seven motions, eight legislative process. So it's section seven motions. Eight is legislative process and nine is voting requirements. So do we want to pull those up? The other thing in terms of public comment, we still don't have any members of the public, but should I officially call public comment? Yeah, so can I do that now? I will. So we will now have a period of public comment. There are no members of the public in the audience. So we will close. I don't have to move to close it. No, so we will close public comment if a member of the public joins before we adjourn. We will ask if they would like to make a comment. Okay, so we will move back to reviewing the rules of procedure. We were going down to, yeah, section seven. Oh, I have resume review here from last time. Okay, great. So we have not voted on this new language yet. No, okay. Where we, I think we were sort of in agreement to add the language in red. The question was about this word of non-controversial nature, right? That's where we were stuck. But Athena's requested change of language that's in red. I think the committee was, we've already taken formal votes, but had reached consensus on, yeah. Okay, thank you for refreshing our memory. So what, so do we want to address the non-controversial nature? Controversy being in the eyes of the beholder. Right, I think it could easily just say that are considered to be of a routine nature. Which is what says what you're considered to be of a routine nature and of a routine. Just take out non-controversial because we never know what will be. Right. But there are routine things that can easily come out. And what one person thinks is controversial and another may not. Michelle is, she had to leave. Okay, so do. So I'm just making a note. Okay, thank you. I would be fine with that. I think routine is can be interpreted in many ways, but I'm going back to Monday's agenda where there wasn't much on. I could have argued, I think that nearly everything that was on our agenda was almost of a routine nature. We voted Warren every year. We vote early voting every year. Even though poll petitions are different every time, they're almost, almost routine too. And so I'm just trying to think what would, is there something that clearly would not fall within routine or that a president might say, might wanna put on an agenda that someone could argue is not routine. Such that it would this be too constricting, but I'm thinking to Monday's agenda and there's an argument that everything that we basically voted could have been considered routine. Referrals are routine even if they get pulled off, right? So I'm just trying to think through the ramifications. There's been conversation about referrals not being routine and that's a, because it's a judgment of whether the council wants to spend time on one thing or another. So some referrals might be routine. What did you say? I said some referrals might be routine, referring things to finance committee might be routine, but referring some new proposal to a committee might not be. And I forget what I was gonna say. I mean, I'm not gonna contest removing non-controversial and leaving it this way. I was just thinking about that. Yeah, an ever sourced petition feels different because the action is routine, but we need to hear from a butters and things or another counselor. So I don't, I think that one is not routine. Although we hear during the hearing and then there's a motion. Yeah, that's true. That's true. The hearing is not on consent. It's the vote that could be on consent. And I mean, again, my feeling is that there's really two opportunities to amend the consent agenda. One is in between the time we post and the time we actually meet. If we discover something is becoming controversial, the president can just remove it in the motion. And the second is that the counselor can remove it. So the only other thing is that I know from time to time, there are things where we have to have certified votes, but we never put those on consent. You mean the financial orders? We have put financial orders on consent. That's right, we do those, right? But there's other ones where you have to certify them and send something off to the state. Right, but the council doesn't have to do anything with that. Yeah, okay. I guess the more important thing for me about this section which Michelle brought up, which is making sure counselors know that it's not a problem to pull something from consent and it's not seen as, you shouldn't be scared or hesitant to pull something from consent if you want it pulled and it shouldn't be seen as not collegial to pull something from consent. And I think that's more, instead of worrying about this language, getting that across to people and that if the president and the agenda-setting committee makes the wrong choice, there wasn't anything necessarily trying to be reflected by saying, well, it's just do it and no one will take offense, right? I think that's the more important thing to be able to get across to counselors of, we're just trying to shorten and make more efficient meetings and the president and the group of agenda-setters made a guess that this one would vote unanimously and so they threw it on a consent and they guessed wrong and that's okay. Or some would need a more information that they, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So should we move through this like each, we're not adopting section by section, we're gonna go through and then- Present the whole hush monkey. Yeah. Okay. So I think if we're all comfortable with this, we can move on. So the question with what Athena just took off was, we actually do allow, but no, in the comment you just unhighlighted that no discussion or debate shall take place beyond asking questions for simple clarifications, right? Wasn't there, doesn't that not quite mesh with how we do it now or does it? I think that was the question. There have been questions answered right before the consent agenda vote, but then there's also a discussion later in the meeting sometimes. Sometimes people will say, are we gonna have a chance to discuss this later? And we'll say, yes, we can discuss it. All this does is, you know, make sure that the referral happens or something like that. And our discussion can include things that we would like the committee to consider in the referral, right? Without, so that's not really consistent with what's here. Which can you highlight exactly? Which where we are? It says no discussion or debate shall take place regarding any item on consent beyond these simple questions. But so what we've been doing is the council votes via consent and then has a much broader discussion later in the meeting. What about instead of any item, the motion on consent? Any specific motion? Because we've been doing those discussions basically when it's like a referral and people wanna be able to get their concerns to the committee in a public meeting, but they're fine with the referral. And so maybe it's a discussion or debate on any motion on consent versus, would that solve the issue Athena? I think so. I think that's my suggestion. I might change this to a motion listed. Yeah. And I think that would be the same up at the top for clarity regarding any motion listed on the consent agenda. How do we communicate? However, there may still be, even though an item is improved on the consent agenda, there may be an opportunity later in the meeting when that item would come up for counselors to discuss and provide additional comment. This doesn't prohibit that discussion. Now that with this change, it doesn't prohibit it. And it's been the council's past practice. So I don't know that clarifications really needed, but up to you if you wanna add that it's specifically allowed. I think what you've been doing in the meeting, Lynn, is sufficient of saying, hey, this is just the referral. Anyone that wants to get their comments to the committee will have that discussion or that opportunity later in the meeting. Yeah. I mean, that's what I've been trying to do so that we can not use our time taking votes. Right. If someone wants to pull it, you know. Right. Okay. I see that is different from someone wanting to vote no for the referral and therefore pulling the motion to vote no and wanting a discussion on whether to even refer versus, oh, we need to refer this, but I've got things I want the committee to consider. Right. Okay. So can we move on? Yeah. And the next was the legislative process, eight. There was something, points of order and motions for reconsideration in rule seven. Okay. I'm sorry. Thank you. Tina had a seven point four. Right. So my suggestion was... You were going to add a sentence. Yeah. You would delete the first sentence. Right. Because you included it in the... Right, yeah. Well, that's interesting. Are we adding the town manager or is that part of what it is now? The town manager's not in there now and the clerk is not in there now. So, you know, there have been instances where Paul needs to make a point of order, essentially, and doesn't have a... We don't have that covered in the rules or neither of us do. So we end up interrupting without saying point of order even though that's basically what it is. So it's just letting us say point of order instead of just interrupting Glenn. I'm just curious, has Paul ever had to do this? I know you sometimes do because we're, you know, Paul has, okay. Yeah, he's done it. I support the recommendation. Yeah, I do too. I do too. Okay, so. You wanna speak to the next one, Athena? There we go. So, the idea is that this rule is what I have in my memo. I'm just gonna read it to refresh my memory too. The rule is silent on the issue of an absent or abstaining counselor moving for reconsideration. So this suggestion would make an absent or abstaining counselor considered as on the non-prevailing side. And so that counselor would need to submit new or additional information in order to make a motion for reconsideration. I'm comfortable with that change. And this would come out. Mandy has her hand up. May I? Jennifer. Yes, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to go Mandy and then I want some, if I would appreciate some explanation. Yeah, so this one. I'm sorry, I got caught up in reading it, yeah. I don't know. I guess I support this for someone who abstains because they're at the meeting specifically choosing not to participate in the vote. And therefore it seems like they should have a harder time bringing a reconsideration motion than someone who voted and prevailed and if they prevailed, meaning they sort of, how they voted is the way the motion went and now they might want to change their vote. And so they should be, if someone prevails, they should have an easier time than someone who didn't prevail. And so I can see someone who abstains actively choosing not to vote defaulting to the non-prevailing side where I struggle with is someone who is absent. Which side should they default to is where I don't know where that should be because I almost feel like someone who is absent, I would give them the benefit of the doubt and default them to the prevailing side. At least that's my initial thinking but I don't know whether that's also correct because well, you weren't at the meeting and so maybe you should also default to the non-prevailing side. So that's sort of a conversation I would like this committee to have at least in my mind because I don't know where that absent member should default to. I appreciate and a support putting in where each of those people default to. I just don't know whether absent should default to non-prevailing or prevailing. That was exactly my thought process. I landed on non-prevailing side because my thinking was they didn't vote just like an abstention but I agree that it, for absent members that could kind of go, it could be justified either way and I think it might be, yeah, nicer to put them in the prevailing side but I'm not sure if niceness is how we judge these things. Lynn. I wonder, I have two things. I wonder if we should have a separate one for absent. But then would absent members need to submit new information? Yeah, what would they have to do? I mean, it's a very good question. Yeah, because it's our responsibility to attend and if we don't for whatever reason, serious reason, I don't think anybody takes a frivolous reason off but there are consequences for missing a meeting and not punishment. I don't mean it like that. Jennifer, if I may. Yeah, please, because that, yeah. If I'm trying to think through, if a counselor were absent and disagreed with the prevailing vote, I mean, it doesn't quite make sense to call them on the prevailing side if they're looking for reconsideration. Yeah, right. This is what they're doing. They don't like the way the vote went. Right. They want it reconsidered. And likely the only reason they would move for reconsideration is because if they were there, the vote would have been the other way. Exactly. If it's a close vote. And yet, yet, you know, yeah, I see what Pat says and I would hate for it to be, new information was, you know, is new information but hey, if we wrote vote with a full compliment, it changes the outcome. Is that, I don't know, is new information. I missed it because I was in the hospital versus I missed it because I was on vacation. Like I don't want to get us into good reasons for missing that allow them to revote and bad reasons that we would say no, you don't get a vote, right? I think it's very hard to say, you know, I'm in the hospital and that counts better than I'm on vacation. I mean, hello, we're gonna penalize people for being on vacation. So I, and I, we've never gotten into the issue of excused absences. So again, I'm gonna go back to, there may be need for a third one that says something about any counselor who was absent for a vote and their vote would change the outcome. Then they have a right to ask for reconsideration. That's not. I'm sorry, Lynn, I thought you were- I was not worried the way- I'm sitting here thinking, okay, you were absent and so you want something reconsidered and you counted and I was on the prevailing, so whatever side and you're, and now I'm absent. So am I gonna do it at the next meeting? Because I was absent and it changed the vote and it wouldn't have if I'd been there, you know, or again, if the vote lost and my vote would have put it over, but they're, you know, for some reason or other. It just feels, I don't know. I mean, it just feels to me like if you're not there, you don't vote. Mandy. Yeah, in some sense, I agree with Pat. If you're not there, you don't vote. We get our meeting scheduled a year in advance, right? Yet- Well, things happen. There are other parts of our charter that can potentially be used to try and create a situation where people won't be able to make it and therefore who is present becomes the governing of what that vote is. And I wonder if a rule in motions to reconsider that says if people were absent and it would change the outcome of the vote because they know how they would vote and everyone else's vote is public at that time, right? That it would potentially lessen the possibility that any counselor tries to use other mechanisms in our rules to get votes to happen on days where certain counselors can't be there. You know, we haven't seen this in the past. And so I sometimes try to think too much as to using rules and I will say that and we haven't really seen this in the past, but when, you know, using the right to postpone in the charter has already been controversial and my guess is it will be looked at in the charter review and all of that. And it's been used for a wide variety of reasons, but it is certainly when it's only one counselor that is required to postpone a vote and it goes automatically to the next scheduled council meeting. If that council meeting is a joint meeting with a committee which crazily nearly every time that right to postpone has been used, there's always some other scheduled meeting without intention of having done that, right? Because it's in the middle of budget season and the finance meetings are joint meetings or this or that, I wouldn't want that use of that right to become routine to use to try and get the right or wrong people missing from it to change the outcome of the vote. And so I can see how if we added something into 7.5 that that might lessen that possibility even though I will admit right now it hasn't been used for that case. And I'm gonna say I have a hard stop. Yeah, I was just, we also should move to approve the minutes. So with this discussion, can we continue it at the next meeting? Yeah, and okay. Thank you. So, I have to get to you. So we will now move to approve the minutes we have the July 19th minutes, the August 2nd and the August 30th. I was only able to get through the August 30th. So the other two sets, I'll try to get. I thought there was just one there. Okay, right. Okay, thank you. So is there a motion or are there any proposed changes to the August 30th minutes? Make the motion first. Okay. I move to approve the August 30 minutes. Second? I'll second. Pat can have it. Whatever, it doesn't matter. Is there any discussion? No discussion? Okay, we'll move to a vote. Lynn? Aye. Pat? Aye. Vandy? Aye. And I am an aye. Okay. Are there any, I don't have any items not anticipated. Do you, Pat? No. No? Well, we didn't do, but it's something the 3.51, but it's very minor and go to the next meeting. We'll do it at the beginning of the meeting, get it out of the way, and we can bring those by law things to the council. Okay. And then we will pick up where we are with rules of procedure. Are there any other items you see at the next proclamations or? I don't have the proclamation list ahead of in front of me. I'm sorry. I was just going to say there's a possibility that specialized stretch code could come to GOL. I won't know till the hearing, which is next week. But I will certainly, if it's done, if CRC finishes with it at the hearing on the 21st, I will let you know, Pat, that evening. You'll know too, because you're on CRC. Yeah. That's a possibility. By law that could come to GOL for the next meeting. Okay. And there are any others that may come out of TSO, or we don't know yet. None of us are on TSO. I don't know if TSO is not taking up street lights this week or tomorrow. So that won't be ready. If TSO gets through it in one meeting. Finance is taking up the registration on Friday. So that might, yeah. Well, we don't need to see. No, but we do need to see that. We do. And I don't think the speed limits, the referral on speed limits was so long ago. And I think it was one that went to CRC and then was passed on to TSO. Because TSO hadn't been created. So I don't believe that it was referred to GOL. I don't believe TSO can make a recommendation to the council. About. Adopting the MGL and creating the, the special speed limit zones. Without first requesting an engineering study to be done. So I don't think it's going to need to come to GOL before the council discusses it. But that will be dependent on the outcome of the TSO conversation. Tomorrow night. And we have to begin to, well, we have time on that. I was going to say the carryover memo, but that's always down. And a lot of, a lot of our carryover. First of all, we're taking care of one of the big carryovers, which is the bylaws. Yeah. A lot of our carryovers dependent on other committees. Right. Exactly. To get to us. Okay. Well, it is 1130. And we will need a job. Jennifer. Oh, well, thank you, Pat and Mandy. You did all the heavy lifting to have the items. No, you did an excellent job. And you did your own lifting kid. No, but we, yeah, it was fun meeting with you and Athena this week. Yeah. It really was. We can make that more regular. Yeah. Over coffee. So. During the meeting at 1130 a.m. See you. Thank you everyone. Monday. It's not before. Bye bye. Bye.