 8 o'clock welcome everybody and we really do appreciate on behalf of our executive director everyone taking the time out of your schedule to come and to be part of this and hopefully we will keep it on schedule throughout the whole day and in on time and we really do appreciate it. We have the agenda in front of you everyone's got an opportunity if you haven't take a brief moment to see your agreement with the agenda for today's retreat. I want to approve the agenda. Second. All in favor? Aye. So first of all our first presentations by David Sturge. Yup. Back here on market analysis. You know what you're probably going to have to go over there. No. Oh. Oh yeah he was. Okay. So the welcome and introduction I think everybody knows each other. I have Erin Foster here today as well. Erin has been very instrumental in some of our retreats and agreed to help again facilitate the question and answer portion. So I think we'll see you over here for you Erin about wherever you're most comfortable. Again just some ground rules. We really, really need everyone to participate, actively listen, stay present, contribute to the goal at the end and be open to new ideas. There are a few quotes. So the first one is starting out that no research without action, no action without research. So David Sturge has been doing tons and tons and tons of research that you will hear all about in the next few seconds. So really think about things. If you have a big placemat in front of you that will be an exercise that you will all be doing ongoing for the whole day. I'll talk about that. There's a place for notes. If there are things in this market analysis that you think are particularly important that will drive decisions during the rest of the day from realizing what is the true market reality, feel free to jot those down and then we'll be working more on a bunch of things but we wanted to make sure that our decisions were rooted in this new data that we just gathered. So I'm going to turn it over to David. I'm going to turn it over to Colin to figure out the switch and then turn it over to David. Hi everyone. So I'm here to present today's preliminary findings in the market analysis. I was hired by the DDA. I was hired by the DDA to kind of evaluate the market for office, retail and small scale manufacturing. There are three key uses within downtown. I think you're bored, you guys, staff and developers and investors want to have a greater understanding of what is the current business climate in downtown Longmont for these types of uses and how is it aligned or not aligned with the priorities identified in your master plan. And really kind of delve into the numbers and really provide a kind of a more quantitative analysis of what do you think the potential for office retail and small scale manufacturing will be over the next 10 years. In combination with attributes that we know that Longmont is doing well. So kind of the work I did today so far obviously made a big opening with DDA and Kimberly. I had a bunch of stakeholder interviews. Some of you are the board members here in terms of business owners, property owners, developers, investors, community leaders to kind of get their input and thoughts about downtown Longmont and where we're moving towards. And then I got the business inventory for downtown and I talked about that shortly in terms of the different categories of uses in downtown. We did a survey. You probably, if you're a business owner or a property owner, you might have received that survey monkey from Kimberly asking some questions about your spaces in terms of lease rates, lease terms and so forth. I made a good response for that. Then I'll dive into the really detailed analysis in terms of the economic and demographic conditions of downtown, the office market, retail market and small scale manufacturing. And today's presentation will be kind of these key findings. After this is all done, probably next held weeks, I'll be turning around the full blown written report to be submitted to the DDA. So it might be hard to kind of see it. I'm just going to kind of run through this and kind of quick snapshots. I think Kimberly mentioned she'll have an opportunity for each of you to actually have a hard copy of all this to review more detail as well. We're just kind of where downtown stands today. Yes. Hi. I'm sorry to interrupt, but we are recording this event and you're standing six inches from the camera. Sounds good. So you say stay a little bit further away. Okay. So downtown Longmont has about 1270 residents and 740 households. It represents less than 2% of the city. Downtown in general has grown faster than the city and region as a whole. And primarily between 2010 and 2019, this is the introduction of residential park apartments which have produced probably 200 new residents to downtown. And downtown is forecasted to grow three times greater than the city and the county over the next 10 years. And primarily this is because of new residential projects being introduced with South Main Station, 250 units in phase one, another 70 units in phase two. The new Boulder County affordable housing projects will be adding more than a total of 450 units which could be upwards of 670 people. I mean, look at that. That's a 50% increase in what your existing population is going to be, which is going to have an impact, we think, on downtown in terms of office demand and retail demand and hopefully small-scale manufacturing demand. Because in terms of the trends of people wanting to work closer to where they live, this could have both some opportunities for these types of additional uses in downtown. Household characteristics. In downtown, average household size is smaller compared to the city and region. 1.67 people compared to 2.6 for the city of Longmont. You know, downtowns are more, one person household, nearly 300% of the household is one person compared to 29% for the city of large. Other household characteristics. Downtown households have lower households with children under 18 as compared to the city and county. This is probably a big surprise. More people living in apartments that are more non-family households than traditional family households. Income characteristics. You can kind of see the blue bubble is Longmont's downtown average household income at 60,000. It's 23% less than the city of 74,000 and 40% less than Boulder County at 84,000. So again, downtown Longmont average household income is less than compared to the city of the other areas. Other income characteristics. This kind of grant is hard to see, but basically what I was trying to tell you is as people grow, your prime working years, 40% of households where the age of the household is between 24 and 64 have income that over $100,000 a year. So obviously when you're under 25 or over 65 year incomes dramatically drop, but during that prime working years, 40% of those households in downtown Longmont have incomes of $100,000 or which is important in terms of what you can consider about household spending. Age characteristics. Downtown households are older compared to the city and region. Average age here in downtown Longmont is 41 compared to the city of 38 and Boulder County is even less at 36. Educational attainment. I mean, downtown is consistent with the county region. I mean, we're a very well educated community. 43% of downtown residents have a bachelor's degree or higher that's similar to the city of Longmont at 44% and out to Denver region. Employment. So this is a Longmont area employment. This is not just a downtown, but this is the greater area that includes the three zippers that comprises the city of Longmont. Total area employment is about 55,000 people. Government is predominant use in terms of employment at 14% followed by the retail trade and health care and social assistance and health care and social assistance include all things related to health care and social services. Do you have those numbers for downtown? Yes, that's what I mean by that one. And so we look at the forecast. Yeah, so in terms of this show, though, the next 10 years growth in jobs in the Longmont area government is dominated that in terms of this actual numbers and health care at a second. But what's interesting is the greatest increase in jobs relative to the current position is highlighted jobs. And they're highlighted in the orange bar. This includes professional, scientific and technical services, finance and insurance, and wholesale trade. There's slave to grow at 85% compared to big ways and low to slave jobs, which are slave to grow only under 15%. And I'll get to it, but downtown's got a very high percentage of these high wage jobs in here. So kind of a key kind of takeaway is downtown is a fast growing population where the residents are older and highly educated. The household sizes are smaller and fewer school-age children. And then again, high wage jobs in the Longmont area are focused to grow faster than compared to other wage jobs in particular for downtown. So Chris couldn't get into your question. So I also did an inventory of downtown and kind of where downtown stands. So it's kind of hard to see the donuts here, but basically in terms of the land use, this is the total parts area of downtown. The government and community uses is predominant land use at 22%, followed by residential property, 18%. Office occupies about 10% of the land, but has 330,000 square feet of building area. And then retail space is about 7% of the land with nearly also 300,000 square feet. Another important consideration in downtown and one of the things that came out in the analysis is, you probably know this, is downtown is very much a services driven kind of economy. Service uses can comprise 60% of land, but more than 400,000 square feet. There is also vacant land. About 25 acres or 15%, half that is the, you know, the Butterball property on 1st Avenue behind here. It's currently vacant and slated for potential development. So downtown employment and businesses. So basically I did an updated inventory of downtown. Basically walk every block and every street to kind of get a great understanding of what's going on in terms of the vacancy, what types of businesses are there and what kind of services they provide. They're very diverse and a collective group of businesses. I calculated 474 businesses, about 3,570 downtown employees. Half the businesses are services oriented businesses and they provide about 33% of the jobs. Health and wellness is another big category in downtown. There's a lot of health and wellness, whether it's doctor's offices, yoga studios, other types of social assistance groups. You know, they comprise 19% of businesses but 9% of jobs. Another interesting thing in retail businesses is 13% of the downtown businesses are retail trade comprising 8% of jobs. And probably if you may know, government which has a smaller number of businesses provide more than 20% of jobs in downtown. This includes St. Frank campus for the county as well as the city's government centers. They're kind of dabbing down so this chart here kind of shows the breakout of the businesses of the 474 businesses. Professional, scientific and tech services predominate. These are again architecture, legal, accounting, other types of professional business services. They predominate at 20% followed by healthcare and social assistance. Other services, other services can include like automotive services, personal care services, mortuaries, stuff like that. They comprise about 60%. So in terms of these businesses, employees that work with them, this kind of breaks out the number of employees. 25% of downtown employees work in government, followed by food services, which is primarily the restaurant space at 12%, and then professional and tech services can present good balance on that. You can kind of see the orange bar that comes with the high wage jobs, the average income or wages of 84 to 136,000. The blue bar is our mid-wage jobs, which average wages of 48,000 to 70,000. And the low wage jobs is 25 to 44,000. That's the great one. I further went down, so I looked at services. Within services, there's a breakout there. And so this chart kind of shows how the different services are broken out of the... This is 241 downtown businesses. Again, I consider professional and scientific services even as an office-related job, but they provide services to the community. They predominate 40% of the jobs, followed by fire insurance, and then other services can go down. Retail trade, 63 downtown retail trade businesses. 23%. The biggest slice is clothing and clothing accessories businesses, followed by sporting goods, having music stores, art galleries and dealers, miscellaneous retail and home garden. Another kind of interesting thing is called the creation question. So what I wanted to look at is downtown's concentration of businesses. How does that stack up against the city at large? And so, for example, if you downtown... I wanted to see how long... how businesses will concentrate relative to the city. And what's interesting and what came out of this is finance insurance downtown has got two and a half X greater in terms of the number of jobs in finance insurance compared to the city at large. And so information is highly concentrated. Government, obviously, is highly concentrated. Real estate is highly concentrated. And so, basically, downtown's concentration and presence of these jobs is greater than the city at large for their own distribution. And there's the areas of the blue bar that are indicating basically a greater than one concentration. There's an area of the light blue bar where downtown has less concentration in those jobs relative to the city at large. And this includes issues to link. Retail trade, arts entertainment, obviously construction manufacturing and administrative support. So, also, as part of this analysis, working with Kimberly, we did a survey that was sent out via Survey Monkey. We got 55 responses. Again, we were asking questions relative to people's thoughts on what their rents are, what they pay for tenant improvement costs, what their lease terms were. Some of the things that kind of popped out that was interesting. 40% of the respondents have been in business center in downtown for over 10 years. Two-thirds of the respondents reported using a gross lease structure. And that's where the rent that the tenant pays is inclusive of all the other operating costs associated with that, such as insurance, property taxes, and so forth. Versus a triple-net structure where you have a base lease and then the tenant pays a priori to share for common area maintenance, insurance, and so forth. If that's related to people owning and renting from themselves, that seems hot. Well, again, this is a question. It was a snapshot. I mean, we had 55 responses. And so you could have three more responses to dramatically change it. I don't know the answer to the question. But there was a fair amount of people, like yourself, who own and lease back to yourself. And so how the priori structure may kind of pop to that, but how it's easier probably to do a gross structure versus a triple-net. I have a triple-net lease, but I'm feeling kind of like I didn't negotiate with my partner properly. My partner? I understand you said business and property are. I mean, I think that was the highest percentage of the answer. OK. And so the other thing, and I'll get into more of this into the specific market analysis, is the lease rates are all over the map. I mean, you have lease rates that are from under $10 foot to almost $30 foot in everything in between. And so basically, well, from the people that responded, nearly half of the triple-net leases, again, this is where the base rent numbers, there's base rent figures are at between $15 and $20 per foot. 11% of the respondents, their triple-net, their base rent was over $20 per foot. In terms of triple-net expenses, again, this is common area property tax and insurance, this is what the tenant pays in addition to their base rent, with 40% reported that their triple-net expenses were averaging between $4 and $6 per foot. And then in terms of lease terms, more than half the respondents indicated that lease terms were between one and four years. So, you know, short lease terms. And then TI costs. TI costs is what sometimes the negotiate between the tenant and landlord about what they put in to raise up to be accommodated. 30% of the TI costs were between $25 and $50, while one third, interesting, one third reported no TI costs. So, I don't know if this is already done or if it was negotiated, but they had no TI costs. Okay, so moving on, so I'm going to kind of get into some of the details on the office market to start with. So, downtown office market is about $400,000 and about 62 different buildings. Downtown Longmont has 2% of the inventory in the Boulder Metro. And the Boulder Metro market is basically defined as Boulder County. So, it's a city of Boulder, city of Longmont, and then Boulder County and all the jurisdictions in between, like Lafayette, Louisville, and portions of the area. So, most of the downtown spaces was classified as Class B or C, lower quality. A few buildings such as Virgil Place could be considered Class A. Is that Class A? Yes. Okay, good. Make sure. And what's interesting, downtown Longmont's office buildings are smaller compared to the city. The average building size in Longmont for office is about 6,300 square feet. The average for the whole metro area is about 17,000 square feet. And this is going to get to one of the kind of key takeaways in terms of being attractive to businesses. There's a lack of larger floor plate space to attract businesses that may want to take larger space. Vacancy rate. So, the blue bar is downtown Longmont. And so, the black bar is Longmont, and then the light gray is Boulder Metro. And so, obviously, since the recession, beginning in 2010, vacancy has been going one direction, pretty much down, which is great for the health of the market. Downtown's vacancy rate for office estimate at 3.7%. It's lower than the county and lower than the measure area of Boulder Metro. You know, vacancy decreased 83% since 2010. Longmont's strong leasing activity and limited supply are contributing to this increase in vacancy. Rents. Rents are going the other direction. I guess the signs of a healthy market is, you know, increasing rents. Rents have increased 37% in downtown since 2010. They're averaging, again, $22 per square foot gross. Again, this gross number includes the triple net, you know, the common area and other charges into that. I mentioned before, downtown office rents are widely varied. And I had to pin down their best estimate. I think $14 to $22 per square foot triple net is kind of the sweet spot for the range that I've been seeing in terms of interviews and talking with brokers for downtown rent. Average triple net expenses seem to be averaging $6 to $10 per foot. And what's interesting, well, and I'm going to talk about this later, is, you know, downtown rents are on average 36% less compared to the Boulder Metro. City of Boulder rents are average $30 per foot. In the Longmont sub-market, they average, you know, $23 per foot. Net absorption. Net absorption is another metric. Basically, it measures how much space is vacated during a certain period with how much space is added to and how much is leased up. And so positive net absorption means more space is being taken up than vacated. So that's a good thing. Negative net absorption means more space is being vacated than being leased up or new supply being added. And so overall, since 2010, downtown's net absorption is positive, averaging $4,600 square feet a year. You know, net absorption can really change during a certain year. For example, in 2019, net absorption was negative 31 feet, which is basically just the same amount being leased up and being taken up. But in some years, for example, in 2011, there are positive 17,000 square feet net absorption. But again, this follows kind of similar to the market trends for the Boulder Metro with all positive net absorption indicating another indicator of healthy markets. New deliveries? Unless I'm completely missing the vote here, you know, since 2010, there's been no new office construction in downtown Longmont. There hasn't been a lot of office construction a lot anywhere. This is kind of changing, you know, retail and office environment. But there has been some conversion of non-office space to office space in downtown Longmont over the past over a year, which would help with that inventory situation. In the Longmont sub-market, there's been minimal deliveries, only 66,900 square feet since 2011, representing 3% of the inventory. Most of the activity is in the city of Boulder, and this is mostly because of Google in the campus. 750,000 square feet of office delivery since 2016 of that 200K was attributed to the Google campus. And overall, in Denver Metro area, there's about 3 million square feet under construction in 35 different buildings. Next point in terms of office under construction, there's no office under construction, but there is two new office products currently under consideration in downtown Longmont that would add 40,000 to 50,000 square feet of new office space. Most of the new construction in Boulder Metro area is in the city of Boulder, as I mentioned, there's no stack office. Another point is the average building size are much greater than the current inventory, and this is not just for downtown Longmont, but for the city of Boulder. The buildings are getting bigger compared to what the current inventory is showing. Another metric I want to highlight for you guys is commercial sales activity. So in downtown Longmont, since 2018, there's been about a dozen sales of commercial buildings. In terms of entrepreneurship, there's been retail and office, which is kind of called commercial. The average sales price is $172 a square foot. This is 30% less than Boulder's metro average sale price. So during the same, well, just in 2019, there's 175 sales in Boulder Metro. They average, what was it? 225 a foot. And Denver Metro, which includes Denver County, all the metro areas, there's over 1,000 sales in 2019. There's an average of 219 a square foot. So downtown sales for building, for existing buildings, are on average less per square foot compared to the Boulder Metro, as well as the Denver Metro. So just kind of quick on, in terms of office market trends, which impact downtown and something to think about moving forward. ULI relationship, which is one of the paramount think tanks in terms of looking at trends and where things are going, kind of out on some key metrics. One of them is called hit-serve, and I think LOMA is well positioned for this. The typical live work play of urban centers is now moving towards suburban communities, like LOMA, where these communities are trying to kind of strategically position themselves to be attractive for jobs and for millennials and for growth. And looking at the whole live work play, this trend is really playing out in the smaller suburban communities throughout the United States. Other types of trends people are looking at are, again, office has always been very much focused on delivering and productivity and efficiency. One of the trends has been out there is more people focus, more providing more flexible space, whether it's through co-working or adaptive reuse, or really changing what traditional office environment is like, to be more flexible and adaptable to what people's workplace needs are today. The power of amenities is really not about skating work but optimizing it, and it's really providing kind of a different hybrid setting that delivers both an amenity in the workplace, with cafes, quiet focus area where you can kind of focus on your work as well as, you know, integration help when people work when people can collaborate. And this is talked about green buildings and, you know, the wealth program. Today in terms of when developers are building office buildings today, what they're finding is the current codes are really acquiring builders to upgrade their buildings to make them sustainable, but to the extent that they can really move towards having sustainable programs or wellness programs is kind of helping to differentiate themselves in terms of the inventory and supply to be a attractive workplace to attract businesses that otherwise wouldn't consider located in their spaces. So this slide kind of estimates kind of market demands and what I did for office demand is I looked at the growth in jobs in the moment, every the next 10 years and these are jobs that are office based employment jobs such as information, fire insurance, the professional, legal and technical services and then I looked at basically how well downtown was positioned to capture this growth. And long story short we're estimating about 64,000 to 104,000 potential demand of office space that could be accommodated based on growth and downtown the ability to capture. Downtown has about 20% of the city's office inventory and so we looked at a capture rate of 15-25% meaning that downtown would really take a button doing well I think it's a fair assumption that downtown could capture a greater share of the growth in jobs in the city of Longline since where they are the employment and a hope for the city. So that satisfies two-thirds to have that? I would think so. I looked at Ryan in terms of the office building there in terms of what you think but I think in terms of pent up demand because there hasn't been any new supply delivering forever but you have to balance that with how people are changing their workplace environment today. For example, one of the big trends it's always been this metric of one employee per 250 square feet of space. Well that's dramatically been going downhill in the past decade but I mean what people are saying today it's like 175 square feet so office space is becoming more efficient so you're having developers build smaller buildings and they wouldn't historically go forward to accommodate more people. The name said the press currently under consideration does that include the office space in the new Boulder County housing? No. I focus actually on the potential conference development with, well I'm sorry, yeah it's attached to the parking garage and the affordable housing there. Well the parking is using that. So it's really just in that method? Yeah. No, I mean they're going to have office, I'm counting the burden project. The 10,000 square feet in that project four times already. Yeah. And the other one is the granary. Brian's here. I know in terms of redeveloping the granary there's going to be some office space there. So did you look at one thing that it's fine that demand may be there absorption but is the appetite there for an increase in base rental rate? I'll get to that. Okay. That's the big one. Yeah, there's demand but the reality is can you repair the room? Yes. And will it pay the rates? Yes. Yes. So I did a quick little swap which is strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, right? So in terms of the strength, again downtown's got a high concentration of high paying jobs. There's positive office market indicators suggest strong, I think, downtown office demand. Again, downtown as both positions were welcome and then a new rich environment that's really attracted to businesses. Strong office fundamentals. It's a couple of long lines and I think with the co-working space, there's a couple co-working spaces right now, co-working in general is going through a transformation. I think they realize that not everyone wants to be in an open office environment in terms of being productive and so that model is being re-thunk in terms of thinking how the model works in terms of providing more private space, conference space and kind of a mish-mash. Again, the challenge is and this is kind of Brian's question in order to answer your question is you look at rents in downtown Longmont at 14 to 22 a foot of truffle net, it does not justify new construction. The biggest challenge is rents kind of really need to be in the $30 a square foot range for base to attract debt and equity. This is a personal experience. I worked with development down in Lewisville and to get debt and to get equity you need to have 8% return on cost and 1.25 we call it debt covered ratio and at 22 bucks a foot in rent you're not near that and so banks look at that and we're not willing to lend them that so you can't get construction debt if you're an equity investor I mean 3% return I would rather take my money and invest it somewhere else to much risk. So you have a disconnect between the cost of construction and the current rents in downtown to justify new construction. Having said that, again I think there's opportunity to get an adaptive reuse that are lower cost to renovate versus new construction because a new construction day you're talking is for a foot, excluding land at 22 bucks in rent that's under 5% return another point again, downtown really lacks large lots of office space for tenants this could be an opportunity other comments in terms of stakeholder interviews lack of highway access now we're not 9, 25, not 36 that's where a lot of development in the metro areas is going along interlocking going towards denver because you have people I also want to look at the spin off demand because you have border really expensive to build and so people that are looking to build in the area where are they building because of the jobs and people who live, they live in a more metro denver Longmont is in the opinion of some people just too far outside of that area meaning if you're in interlocking along 36 you can grab red people who live down in the center and south they could be willing to commute and be less willing to commute to Longmont downtown got an overall lower employment density population to support new office men but that could change and really there's really a limited amount of modern office in downtown and in Longmont in general that's really a constraint to capturing future growth the inventory that's here today is not the inventory that people want basically that's what I'm saying and so you're having to think about registering I think that adapts to what they did in the second floor of the first bank building your first bank building I mean you look at the bank there and you go up there and you look at what they did and it's like night and day and I think that what they did there in terms of transforming that space I mean they have a lot of land working they have people that commute from Fort Collins in Denver but it's a very funky modern office space that's attractive to the type of jobs that people want there and then threats, threats are things that appear your external just downtown you know another big threat is the continuing rising construction costs labor costs 50% increase in the last five years which is putting really that pressure on new construction facilities increases in entitlement and permitting costs it negatively impacts the performance you have all these external costs coming in it just really makes it more challenging the rising tenant fit out costs we have our project in Lewisville we have our 30,000 per foot class A office building our TI costs that we're negotiating with tenants were helpers of 100 bucks a foot for a former 50 there's a big gap there this is just for a plain vanilla white shell I mean nothing fancy and it's 100 dollars a foot I just blew my mind and then again longer construction entitlement timelines are impacting developers and then and then Black Swan events with the economy disruptions we just don't know how things are going to play out the certain things that are beyond anyone's control and then again opportunities transforming under the US properties including second floor space demand is a great potential modernizing the space and then really providing a flexible better space to reflect about today's workplace trends for today's workers and for target industries okay last slide I just want to keep take away downtown we've got strong placemaking strong office fundamentals focusing on creative users target tenant tech firms professional firms the evolution of co-working and then again estimated 60,000 or 4,000 in the next 10 years and then areas that could accommodate this demand include the cost and street corridor the steam area that Aaron kind of talked about former butterfly properties in a hundred and two hundred block industry so I think there's still the opportunity sites within downtown to comment this demand it's just a challenge of especially with new constructs it'd be financially viable from the developer investor perspective okay that's the office I don't like to move on okay retail market retail has got about half a million square feet and 97 billions 2% 3% of the Boulder Metro market is in downtown and then 9% of downtown retail inventory is of Longmont's retail inventory is in downtown similar to office downtown Longmont retail is just smaller the average 5,000 square feet compared to 12,000 for the Boulder Metro basically generally going down dropped 27% since 2010 down most recently at 3.2% lower compared to the metro area compared to the city that's positive rents increasing 51% since 2010 average triple net rents in Longmont for downtown about 1450 is first foot again compared to 25 square foot for the Boulder sub market and 16 for the Longmont sub market average triple net expenses of 48 square foot native direction definitely more choppy because retail is very much a more cyclical market but overall it's been positive since 2010 averaging about 31 square feet a year most recently in downtown it was negative 72,000 square feet meaning more space was vacated than leased up that was in 2019 but that is consistent with the overall trend at Boulder Metro had a negative from the 21,000 square feet downtown is mirroring the trend of the region at large new deliveries there's one new retail delivery that's south station at 10,000 square feet here that's Longmont Street Friday Friday that was in 2019 since 2010 there's been more than 715,000 square feet of new retail delivery at Longmont but this is primarily the transformation of the Village of the Peaks the old old mall and then you've seen City of Longmont or City of Boulder which is a lot of detail I've also seen minimal activity just 75,000 square feet delivered since 2013 under construction I'm not aware of any space currently under construction but there is approximately 10,000 or 15,000 square feet of new retail under consideration in downtown so it's a positive and the buildings are getting larger the average size of new retail space under construction is 17,000 square feet compared to 13,000 for the existing inventory so similar to office buildings are getting bigger I wish Jim Golden was here I have some information on sales activity so we look at downtown Longmont sales in 2076,000,000 in sales more than half that was from food and restaurants this is a predominant source of sales other prominent sales generators include lumber and building supplies 10% of downtown sales came from that and then auto related uses there's a fair amount of auto stuff along general sales which include hardware, jewelry, loaves and other types of sales and then apparel generated 5% of the city sales so this bar chart shows downtown sales since 2010 so very positive is going in one direction up so basically downtown sales since 2009 have increased 132% downtown sales about 4.2% of the city sales and again positive this kind of shows downtown sales by category growth compared to the growth categories for the city at large and what I'm going to show is on average downtown sales are averaging 8.9% growth since 2009 since 2010 there's been 4.9% so downtown sales is growing faster than the city at the whole and it's been kind of all over the place but in general you look at 2018 between 27 and 2018 downtown sales grew 16.5% compared to under 4% for the city mostly because of lumber in that particular year but mostly in 2019 it's flipped less growth between 2018 and 2019 downtown sales only grew 0.8% compared to 4% for the city and when you look at by categories there's three things here the blue bar of 2017 and the light grid of 2019 so pretty much all the categories apparel, auto food, lodging home, furnishing have seen positive growth in their sales 13% since 2017 just lodging because the closure of the Thompson Inn it's going to negative as well as time and occupation but overall in terms of one of the categories food, apparel, auto furnishing, general lumber all positive since 2017 retail market has been impacting downtown it's very well positioned to catch what they're doing today focus on placement really kind of creating an attractive place for people to hang out including entertainment attractions and events there's been a big explosion in I guess the non-traditional retail in terms of fitness and health and wellness I mean so many boutique concepts have soared 70% compared to 5% of traditional estate gyms to say relevant today in terms of creating great customer experiences that focus on experiential and active entertainment it's really driving a lot of the retail arcades, escape rooms, trampoline parks you know look at downtown but it's your space that there's an arcade in there used to be the developer you look at down by the mall redevelopment whereas your other property there is a trampoline park which used to be the office max store so you having retail today you can envision about what it means in the traditional retail you have your growth in these services especially tenants things like magnesium, code ninja, humon things that really don't generate sales tax but are being tentative in spaces in terms of having to absorb existing space omni channel is becoming the norm what I mean by this is to stay competitive today in terms of e-commerce you have to do both bricks and mortar and what we're finding also is bricks and mortar or online thing online retailers are opening bricks and mortar because they realize that still 88% of retail sales in America today is done in a physical store and so you have that kind of the norm of doing it both online as well as bricks and mortar food and beverage is really continuing to grow and this has created really healthier food options and then pop-ups, there's a lot of information that I mean pop-up I guess called pop-up pollution but there's a lot out there in terms of if you're a retailer you're not sure you're going to survive you go into these pop-ups that you go ahead and create experiential opportunities so one story short at least it's a retail demand within the primary market area and that's basically a two mile drive of downtown I think that's where most of the retail sales in downtown where most of the customers come from and then a secondary market which goes out to the tri-towns and this includes all that to do with for different fires and which I did downtown as an opportunity to capture that curve but on a more limited basis and the bottom line is S&E retail demand I think for downtown was between 19,000 and 38,000 for a few over the next 10 years and most of that sales being driven by residents within the primary market area and to a certain extent when the secondary market area drives some of the sales downtown employee growth drives some of that sales for people when they work downtown spend some of their sales in downtown as well as visitors to downtown Strength for downtown again, I think it's a healthy retail market it's walkable and a factory mix of uses there's a growing restaurant scene and they're really positive growth in retail sales in the past 10 years similar to office it's a higher cost environment for retail construction and permitting and tenants fit out which impacts the developers and investors bottom line another thing to be cognizant of is the increasing occupancy cost for tenants really putting pressure on particularly indie merchants independent merchants to stay in downtown they're not national chain retailers they don't have that credit capacity so they're being squeezed in terms of increasing rates this bar chart kind of shares how e-commerce has been increasing exponentially 309% since 2014 and then again online shopping really is impacting first and mortar and then I always find this interesting but in America today there's 23.5 square feet per retail space per person you go to Europe it's like two most other countries in the world retail for capital is exponentially less than America today they always say America is over retail but underserved we have so much retail compared to other countries again opportunities are kind of focusing on the office the downtown is a good incentive place really there is some opportunity to capture that retail leakage there is this leakage coming from the secondary market area focusing on smaller independent shops and then again where kind of rising construction costs the occupancy costs as a drag on opportunities for tenants and really kind of I would say the supported increase in daytime employees and office really will support downtown retail so focusing on providing new job opportunities for the building to help downtown so my last piece I'm almost done is a small scale manufacturing market again this is things where the fabrication of products either by hand or renewable automation which can include things such as 3D printing crack brewing all of that we're actually making something and I focus on my analysis on businesses that are small scale meaning 20 employees or less the US small business administration classifies small business as 500 employees or less which is 99% of businesses really again what's most applicable to downtown Long Island I think is 20 employees or less contrary to what people believe manufacturing is not dying in America it's just going through a transformation and a change manufacturing does contribute 9% of the employment in the nation 12% of GDP the big thing it contributes 70% of R&D in exports it's very much of an innovation class that's going through rapid transformation analytics and internet today that is making manufacturing of tomorrow is not the manufacturing of what we always historically call a manufacturing in the Boulder Metro the big thing you consider this is Long Island and in Boulder Metro it has a high percentage of flex space and flex space can be office R&D not just traditional manufacturing space so we're the second highest concentration in the country behind San Jose in terms of percent of flex space and again I think downtown Long Island has got some opportunity to put this in one space the vacancy rate in Long Island is higher but that's because of the vacancy of the former Mac store space the vacancy rate for the industry is about 15% but if you take out the $500,000 for the Mac store I think the vacancy rate of Long Island is much more in line with the rest of the measure area rents for industrial are less in Long Island compared to the county and region 9 on average 942 a foot compared to 11 12 other measure areas I look at demand so demand is kind of focused primarily on growth in manufacturing jobs and there is growth in manufacturing jobs of the next 10 years in Long Island estimate demand is about 13,000 to 31,000 square feet in downtown and again that's looking at the overall growth in manufacturing jobs and we think downtown could capture of that with its strengths you know there has been positive employment growth for small scale manufacturers this forecast to grow 14.3% Long Island has got a high concentration of the targeted industries that could be great in accounting in downtown identified for advanced Long Island this includes smart manufacturing, R&D and the food and beverages rate I think downtown is well positioned to capture a kind of portion of this growth and similar to other things the current building vacancy really doesn't need to need the new businesses the inventory in Long Island not just downtown just doesn't need what business we're looking for today in terms of having modern space the high ceilings that could be accommodated and there is a limited availability or affordable space for manufacturing appropriate uses in downtown as well as the city of Lawrence again one of the biggest threats identified actually is what's called the skills gap so today's people that work in manufacturing the retirement of the baby boomers the people moving up behind don't have the skills in terms of technology to stay current with how manufacturing jobs are being done market volatility is a big issue in terms of rising material costs which can negatively impact production costs then access to capital opportunities to capture this demand the 110 industry redevelopment Brian's property across the street more than 200 block of land are potential sites to accommodate small scale manufacturing and as I mentioned the lack of since he's paid today the high vacancy doesn't need to need for today's industrial users so last slide and I'm done there is overall the summarizing office demand 64,000 1 or 4 retail 19,000 small scale 15,000 and really focusing the support and investment for office and small scale in downtown really increase that daytime population will help sales activity for downtown as well and really kind of continue to provide greater retail customer experience with retail, experiential retail kind of restaurants in the industry so with that, I'm done thank you Kimberly wanted me to come just so she can kind of participate in the discussion so I'll just kind of help facilitate some questions for this portion obviously I won't be answering the technical questions David can do that but we just kind of wanted to get a sense from you obviously that was a lot of really great information and probably a lot to digest so thanks David I'd love to get a copy of your report but really thinking about A, are there any questions that you have for David I know he answered a couple of them during the presentation any clarifications or questions that you have was there anything that really surprised you there was a few things that kind of surprised me or is this pretty much what you expected to see from the analysis or any general impressions even one of the questions do you want to come back up here David look into the senate what's the state and how that trend looks like a little bit more specifically since 2010 because that was really alarming for me that rents for office is only gone up for 32% which I know property tax has gone way more than that since 2010 so the trends of the flex phases I'd be interested to learn a little bit more about the DMH yeah I won't in the final report I'll have some more detail on historical trends in flex but the main thing is you know in the Boulder metro the inventory is just flex space and again this is space that how they define at least 50% in the office and the rest can be R&D or manufacturing and other types of specialized industrial rents obviously historically have been lower than traditional office 9 to 12 bucks per square foot I think it's reflected with the kind of current inventory now but the flex space of today and tomorrow does not look like the flex space of today and so one of the challenges is building affordable flex you know Brian's doing that with 110 every but that's an adapter to use in an existing building so the costs are lower we're considering flex space at our property in 21st South Sunset that I'm performing right now and it's cheaper but it's still challenging to make it work financially given the way construction costs are because it's just you just do T.I. here on a budget place ridiculous in terms of making it flexible so I think the extent that that you can reuse existing buildings for adapter use and for flex space is something that can be done I think you're low hanging for it is easier that makes much sense but to build new construction and again getting to like inspect and then release and be able to make it make it more financially viable but I'll have more details in the report about the flex market so with that gap is there something that you see would be kind of an appropriate role for the DDA to consider you know how do we help those types of projects is that something you guys would want to consider targeting and you can definitely shift some of the incentives toward making some of this right you know right now a lot of our incentives are I can't believe I'm saying that a lot of our incentives right now are retail focused but in order to make make the mix right I mean I understand what David is saying about get these people hearing our time during the day and all those will follow but so it makes sense and that's the biggest tool in our toolbox really is that I'm shocked not shocked it's frustrating to have a mismatch in having maybe potential space but it's not the right space that's frustrating when you're dealing with buildings you know that I think it's more difficult than in other places because you're largely a building to get into I do think though that the redo of the something downtown scapes this as being building I think that making an area you could use look we did not something down we took something that was already here and modified it I'll tell you that our building is extremely efficient even with all the stuff we had put in for the city my downstairs space with the old brick walls and all those two things is really inexpensive from a fuel type of standpoint and those sorts of things so maybe those things go together if you can get the match right with the different space the building on the incentive I think that you're looking at incentives and saying are these incentives tipping the scales and opposed to reducing the cost of the views Marshall? Yeah I'm thinking in terms of retail viability I was struck by the statistic that 88% of retail is still brick and mortar and it made me think about margins because you can see what retail is failing it's stuff like pennies that has low margin and it has stuff that you buy once and then the next time you buy through the loon you order it from Amazon because you know your sizes and stuff on the other hand high-end boutique kitchenware is probably a high margin business because that stuff's only bought by people who don't really do a lot of price comparison shopping and congratulations on this kick of a product buy but my question is coming back to are there incentives that we can make or things that we can do to help businesses adapt to a slight shrinkage in their margin instead of failing because they fail to adapt to that I don't have I'm not a business person I don't know what they would be but should that general retail viability be a focus when you talk about David Land did that include circus law? well circus law attached to a building or within a parcel there are many things like a building and a big lot but I don't know if you're correct but there are circus parking lots so that's an interesting question thinking about what your master plan at least for the DEA lots is that an opportunity I think what I heard you say is it's challenging to build that being said that seems like it could be an opportunity and one that's already identified by your master plan with some of these gaps we'll just reiterate that you said it's hard to do without some kind of private property partnership and incentivizing that like we incentivize new housing which then proves the housing market and that new housing is probably a tool to look at in a certain way and I don't totally agree with what Kurtz said and I I'm sad to say this too but we do put a lot of emphasis on incentivizing retail but what was also alarming is it's not creating jobs for our downtown what was it? there was 0.65 so that was less compared to the rest of the city in terms of job creation for retail for me and so to Marcia's point, yeah every single year fighting against Amazon and the retail climate our margins are getting smaller and so I appreciated your comment around how to stay relevant from a retail brick and mortar perspective because it's going to be more about the experience more about the relationships and so it's something to pay attention to for sure I think Marcia's your point about how we help people adapt I think it's to get more people here buying things I think that and so when you look at live work and play we're starting to get people to live here and I think we have to kind of let that stabilize but we're the central business district here 35% of our employees is not still or not for your central business district and I just don't think that people considered us as office because number one we haven't had the inventory we haven't really said hey we want your offices to be here that we think this is a great place for employment when I hear David saying I think to be a Polyana optimistic person we are the most affordable place to be in your business in Boulder County without a doubt and in a place where people want to be in Boulder County how do we use that as a good message and how do we say we will help you be here because it's that important that you're here because companies want to be where other companies are and if you look at our mix of business services that's the number one thing so we are having the account and the finance and the bank and that kind of thing that can be there you know when I had my office right on Main Street I could tell you I could tell you one business is we're walking their stuff to Guarantee Bank with their money back every day so that is one of the things that I think is appealing to what we have there so I think if you look at it it's packaging all of the stuff why it's easier here why it's important and why at the end of the day it'll be less expensive are you with which you're a Polyana in words developed we have to figure out how to command because there is absolutely no way people want to do projects right if they can't recruit they're invested but that's again my question though I mean it's long not ready for $30 at what rate what the town is doing on the Pops Camp that's right probably taxes have grown up 30% in the last few years this is happening across the country and so then you compress that because the tenant doesn't really care what the net rate of rent is they need to know what their occupancy costs are that's right so there's only some room in there and so I like focusing on the top line get more people, more businesses but it's really the cost that drives it because if a rent gets too high it can't operate and so how do you when I was part of my presentation later today it was how do you do that rent at a point where they can operate their business and we have a lot of business in Las Vegas we probably have 30 retail centers and they're all geared toward neighborhood services so non-Amazon type stuff and we won't do deals if our rent hits a certain level if we have to have a rent at a certain level we just won't do that deal because I don't want to put the tens of situations where they're just lining it out each month and I get the phone calls you know can we get an abatement for a month we didn't make our sales and it's just a cycle to get in so how do you keep the rent down for that sector of business the nationals can come in Starbucks and others and they can pay the 30 plus but you want to need some of that in the market you also need those monobots so how do you do that unless you're going to build an office that's the only end but the cost is key and rents are a direct reflection of the cost of construction or rehab or whatever it is so you can't control the taxes unfortunately you can appeal and you can't control that thing so what do we control and how do you focus on that so thinking about that question I mean what does the board see or what does staff see I mean obviously there's a lot of things out of our control in this room maybe not out of financing and developers controlled by it what is the role for the board how can you guys influence that and impact that Marcia what do you think the first thing I remember learning about on this board was that you have a substitute for third store analyses on existing buildings that can go anywhere do we have buildings here that could take a third tier of a class A office space above the retail we've never had a meet for it no one has taken advantage of that it could be part of some of our incentives that we're doing it no one's ever tried so we don't know whether the building structurally could support that because it is an option if you've worn that in logically knowing nothing about either the physics or the economics of it right well at third domain that is two three storey buildings there may be a modified area it would be more attractive like the adaptive kit we have seen stabilization in 251 main which is the ants of people building a lot of interior changes and you can't see it coming out of the exterior but it really shifted that commitment but more of a viable industry downstairs there's some of that going on and when David and I were talking to you there's been a good amount of interior shifts but there's been no new product but I think you're sustainable on that fish those kind of things are happening but there's still not large employee type businesses and I think I think the other thing to remember is that these incentives would need to be substantially larger than what we put out what we put out there yeah, the assignment incentive versus making a third storey attraction or something like that substantially different I'm trying to figure out how you would the real question is how you offset that long term cost in order to make it affordable because everything we do is on the front end so you could make the development cost affordable or more affordable but over the long haul with taxes and other expenses we're not there we can't help beyond that front end there's a talk about look at the screening components of real estate there's land that would cost you a bill and then there's your soft costs which is your fees and all your financing and TI and all that and that's like 30% of the price so that's the one where you can have the most impact but it's the second largest of the pieces so if you focus on that and then if you can offset some of the construction costs that's a meaningful difference but you're right over time the things like taxes expenses are not going down so I think this has been a lot of really great information and we can continue thinking about this conversation, the data that Dave presented because we can weave that in throughout the day Kimberly is going to tell you about this large piece of paper on your desk and how we might use some of this information to continue to spur thoughts and conversations throughout the day Kimberly do you want to talk about the placemat? So this grid that is in front of you that identified our priorities and projects and programs for 2017 and 2022 and at the end we're going to have each of you report out on this placemat as to what you think either on this list or just think about that there's lots of priorities as to what you think are the top three priorities overall or you can introduce a new one of what's on this list and then one tactic of how we can get a little bit closer to that priority so at the end each of you will kind of report out as to what you think your top three priorities are and one thing that you think is important to there are printouts on the table there's a few printouts of David's presentation there's printouts of some other things that you'll hear so feel free to grab those if you want to cite something or look at something or ask some other type of question but a couple things to remember we talked about land use it is extending the vibrancy of our downtown to an 18 hour seven day activity zone bringing residents entertainment and jobs our economic vitality is to build on the authentic vibe and real productivity to grow our women face creativity showing more visual sciences the whole place making realm of how we promote local culture and now creativity for our sense of place making sure that it's clean, safe and welcoming to all ages and cultures connectivity really improving and expanding the infrastructure that helps downtown be well connected and we're going to talk a lot about the Cochrane Street corridor that type of thing and in leadership collaborating with a coalition of partners to make sure that we reach the priorities so does this make sense, does this activity get everyone so there's places for notes you can kind of drop down notes you can do different things like that and really figure it out one of the things that we're building on so I have some ideas on the Cochrane Street corridor and some questions on that as to how that can influence employment decisions so I would say is you're caring about these different projects who can try to connect them the best we can to make sure that they're all fitting that you can see there's a puzzle theme of there's all these types of pieces that we're going to have to connect together to get to where we want to in our vision I have a copy of our master plan there so if anyone wants to refer to that to the board we had talked about looking at boundary expansion and looking at possibly the downtown character area in the Main Street corridor plan which goes from 11th to Boston basically the river corridor so I did look into different things there is no statutory procedure for an overall expansion for either the DBA or the GI team so that you can't just say we want to expand to Boston and if a certain amount of people are off then everyone's in we would have to annex each property so each property owner would have a petition that they wanted to be in the DBA they would go out from paperwork the board would go yes that's fine we would like them to be in the DBA and we would take the council and council would change to the ordinance of resolution to allow them in or we did annex and where was the park apartments so that was one that we did so we can definitely do annexation however your boundaries do have to be continuous so we did annex in the first few properties I talked to folks in Fort Collins and really in Grand Junction that have done a number of annexations you can use a bit of the public right away if you have two properties you can kind of hold out you can say your boundaries and go down the road and pick up these other properties but you can't do it to crazy proportions you can't go down two blocks and then pick up another different ways that you can work that side so that is if you wanted to just do a huge expansion for a GID because the GID is so small you could look at doing another general improvement district in a different zone and that petition would need to be signed by at least 30% of the eligible electors so people that would be in that zone 30% would have to sign a petition then you would have to have a petition out there that said here is a description of the improvements here are three representatives that want to do this and here are the boundary requirements that were met you would have to take that to city council and then city council would have to say there are uncomfortable creating this general improvement district then if you wanted to assess a mill levy it would have to go to a taper election and that election would be for only the business properties only the property owners that are within that zone and they would have to vote on a certain and that's a one owner one vote election but you can however on your multiple properties you could designate a voter if you wanted another vote you could do the petition so it's not quite as easy it's not a thing you're just saying you want to expand but there are a lot of different tools in toolkit that we'll talk about later that could help get to that goal but you could start off the edges and work down if you wanted to annex those properties but it probably would make sense either request or a contest I don't actually think that helps but it would be hard it would be hard it would be hard it would be hard it would be hard it would be hard right at your bisonic bisonic you could get spicy spicy natural so we have three levels of spicy just the bottom one okay okay we need to give on the Main Street Order plan. Most of your backs will start. I'm not gonna necessarily go through the full plan because I've done that with this board at several occasions when we were doing the plan. And so I appreciated all your input. And certainly you were on the technical advisory team. So we've had a lot of downtown input. I don't know that we've talked since council accepted the plan, which happened in, sorry, really cognitive of the camera, which council did in October. So the plan is accepted, meaning that now we can start focusing on implementation. Remember, and I did leave a couple copies of the plan. If you want plan copies, hard copies, I'm happy to provide them. We do also have everything online, including the appendices. Recall that this plan looks at the entire Main Street corridor and a couple of blocks on either side. So it really goes from 66 on the North all the way down to Plateau. Obviously the portion that I'm guessing this board is focused on is really that downtown character area, which Kimberly mentioned, goes from 11th Avenue down to the river and roughly down to Boston. You might also remember that we developed recommendations in this plan at the corridor scale. And a lot of those are really focused on kind of overall land use and transportation changes. We also developed recommendations that are specific to each of the four character areas, including the downtown character area. And then we went further down and did some recommendations for catalyst sites. And so you'll recall that in the downtown character area, the catalyst site that we chose to open more at was really that 200 block area. So kind of that area south of third, north of first. And we can talk more about what the specific recommendations are, but really what we're doing is kind of trying to weave that into the building steam effort that we'll talk about later this afternoon, the work that we're doing with Advanced Longmont and the Place Work Group. And so thinking about how do we bring all of this all of these recommendations together and really advance work in a cohesive way. What we're really interested in talking about for the next 10 or so minutes is what are the recommendations that this board is most interested in kind of working on? Where do we feel like there's the need to prioritize? And thinking about the downtown character area and some of what Kimberly just talked about with your boundaries, where do we really see opportunities for partnerships potentially? And so we'll be asking, I think Kimberly just gave you a map that shows this downtown character area and really what this shows is envision land use which roughly corresponds to zoning. And so you'll see those labels on there. We're gonna be asking you to think about within this smaller area, are there other breaks that we might look at in terms of targeting specific improvements or targeting different kinds of changes? So I do want to remind you about some of the recommendations that we made that I think based on previous conversations this board is interested in. And we can give an update on where we're at. A lot of the recommendations are related to transportation. So hopefully Phil comes out with a few questions. I'm not sure if you can answer that. Most of these, again, are really focused. You can ask them, I'm gonna go like two minutes and then I'll need to answer them. They're really at that corridor level but I think they do really apply to downtown. So we talk a lot about speed enforcement on Main Street and I think that's particularly important as you're entering downtown. We talk about looking at the signal timing particularly as it relates to pedestrians and having those leading pedestrians into holes which our public works department is working on some timing particularly downtown. Thinking about medians, obviously downtown is a good model in some sections where we have medians in access control but wanting to think about that for the whole corridor and where those priorities should be. CDOT is working with the city on a few outside of the downtown character area. So thinking about in this area where might we wanna focus. Obviously we're talking about wayfinding and that's particularly important for downtown. Also gateway signage, we talk about that at the north and south ends of the corridor but we also contemplate it for the downtown character area as we think about bicyclists and pedestrians and think about alternatives for example to biking on Main Street. This plan really talks a lot about what those alternatives might be and I do have a big map if we wanna take a look at that so we've been doing some work on that. Thinking about bus stop improvements and then the other thing that we haven't started yet but is in the plan and I'm particularly interested in our code recommendations and so that might play in as we think about where some of these natural breaks are where might be target code recommendations. You'll notice that there's a section of the downtown character area that has a different land use and a different zoning than the mixed use downtown area where you guys focus and one of the recommendations of the plan is to really evaluate that area and see if it makes sense to potentially look at amending zoning and land use so that that area between 9th and 11th can be more part of the downtown. We also talk about looking at height and density in particularly in the downtown character area and along Main Street. Looking at some of our use regulations might we wanna take a look and maybe further restrict auto oriented uses on Main Street. Thinking about landscaping and street sections and what those need to look like in terms of really supporting those walkable urban environments that both Envision Longmont, the downtown master plan and now the Main Street Quarter plan talk about. So those were kind of the recommendations that I pulled that I thought really fit with the conversations you all were having but really just interested in your feedback on as we proceed with implementation and you are familiar with this plan where should we be focused? What message should we be sending to council? Kind of where do you want us to do more work? Tell people what to do. Yeah, so really the entire Main Street Quarter the entire Main Street Quarter has mixed use zoning and it is just that mixed use meaning it could accommodate residential and that would really be multifamily residential or residential in a vertical mixed use building. It can accommodate office uses, retail uses, service oriented, restaurant uses. Some of that artisanal manufacturing can be accommodated and in the mixed use corridor there are provisions for some more of those particularly auto and service oriented type uses that may not be permitted downtown and that's really a function of the way that corridor is today and so certainly those businesses have a presence in Longmont, we value them, we don't want to get rid of them but just thinking about locationally should we be developing criteria to further regulate. So for example in the mixed use downtown we do allow gas stations but we don't allow those on parcels fronting Main Street. So those are examples of how we can tweak the use regulations with some location standards. We may be able to do something similar with height and floor area. For example on Main Street we have the ability to build right up to the property line in other zones. We require a setback so maybe that's something that we could look at. But generally the mixed use downtown is relatively permissive in terms of the uses that are allowed. I think what we see is some of the uses that David mentioned we didn't see in terms of those larger scale types of uses might not, larger scale, industrial, things of that nature might not be allowed downtown. And the blue is obviously government. Public and quasi-public land. So that's gonna be like schools, parks, my building, the FAA, or some station, things like that. So I noticed that our lot is in May we may have done it and haven't become mixed use. And that has to change. Yeah so that's something we should look at what that's zoned but that's a good catch and something we may wanna look at. Yeah and I'll be honest with you we find as we go through, we did Envision Longmont at a community scale, we did the code update at a community scale and so we are finding things where we're like oh that doesn't quite match, that's not really what we intended but when you're looking at 37,000 parcels it's easy to have a few misses so that can be one of those that we need to look at. But I certainly wouldn't see that being an issue and I'm not gonna speak for council but I would think that based on what's in your master plan, based on what's Envision Longmont, that change would be pretty easily supportable by staff so I wouldn't see that really being an issue. Yeah. I think what's our 300 block lot and that's in there too. Yeah that's not, that's just the number two. Oh okay. And that likely is just because of the proximity to the station, that's the center, yeah. That's where it's at, hotel, proposal, and that. Oh no it isn't there, it's up. So as you think about this area and I realize again, this is a larger area than you might normally think about because the DDA boundaries are smaller but are there some natural other areas can really put together some examples of how other communities look at this. So you have on the left hand side, Raleigh, North Carolina and then El Paso, you can see these are their downtown areas but they're further subdivided into like warehouse district, one of the south, capital district, historic Oakwood. So there's some different types of districts and this might be helpful for us to think about, we've started kind of thinking about this, as we market the Opportunity Zone which is in a broader area encompassing parts of downtown but as we think about again, potentially developing code changes as the DDA potentially thinks about developing programs or potentially some of the incentive pieces that you guys were talking about in your previous segment, what are some of those natural breaks? You can feel free to kind of write on your map, we can also just do this as a conversation and if you don't have ideas then you have questions, that's fine too. What's the impact, can you explain what the impact is of segmenting off different districts like this and how that would impact your funding structure? I don't know that it would impact funding but it helps everybody realize where they fit into a piece of the pie, right? So you have the kind of the historic core which is third and sixth and I'm always talking to people who, I presented to a Consolidatorship Long Rock this year and I presented to them and one of the class members pulled me aside and kind of said, you know, it's very clear where you start and you just, you know, end and you don't care and I said, well by state statute we can't spend money where we don't generate it, right? So sure, you can try to do some of that but what I explained to her is if you stand here, we're doing a walking tour so if you stand on the 400 block of mail everything is funded up, the built environment is different, it was developed different, it was made different so you have a different feeling and as we get into some of the work that we're doing with the 200 block they really, as part of their charrette said, well let's go out and solve some slope, you know, we're different, we're going down this hill, we have some setbacks and we have a different kind so there are just ways you naturally feel different and naturally it's going to change differently so when you get to some of our industrial type businesses they are probably going to flow into what industrial youth would look like in a new kind of cool area you know, Brian tried to do a lot of that with his development, it still has to do nods in this industrial so it's really how you feel in an area and what makes sense there, you probably wouldn't put certain uses in the historic area that you put in more about the industrial area so I think it's really just that, how does it feel, I mean to me as I look at the downtown character area and I know there's some steam documents there but how Main Street is going to feel between 1st and the river? I don't know, I mean I'm having a hard time figuring out how that's going to look and then the Midtown area, you really look between 9th and 11th it's chugging along, there's some really cool businesses there's some neat things happening up there and so I think it's that really how do we kind of feel like this with all these pieces of the puzzles even if we aren't a funding part of them today when we look at the Midtown corridor at the end we're going to talk about a greater partnership model of management that downpounds across the country too and some of that could be is there a business improvement district? Is there a different kind of funding school that goes 11th to Longstreet or something like that? So how do we go from those other tools? But I think it's having an idea of how that holds. That's interesting to me, to hear you say and I hadn't heard you make that comment I had registered the comment about the chourette in the 200 block and in my mind they had always been trying to fold it into the third and the sixth sort of idea and the idea that maybe, well yes, with mediums and such it looks like it's part of downtown with signage and such it looks like it's part of downtown but it's character is distinctly different or transitional between third and first. So that the first part of it was like I think everybody, yeah, that's not what they want and probably doesn't make sense. You can't put historic buildings between or even third at this point. I mean that's a good point. You could require that all the buildings look like that but I think what we've heard from the community is there is a different sort of third. What we heard during Main Street and Envision is there's an appetite and I think from council correct me if you disagree but there's an appetite and a willingness potentially for greater building heights in this area then there would be if a property was to say redevelop or have some infill in that 300 to 600. People wouldn't necessarily be comfortable with a six or seven story building whereas in this area that might not seem out of scale. So that's why it's helpful for us as we think about we don't have differences right now too much within the mixed use downtown zoning districts but certainly that's something that the DDA could look at. Are there different design guidelines? Are there different signage standards within these different character areas that really speak to some of those differences? John, did you have a comment? Yeah, so I think Main Street continues to be the challenge that we're having and it still feels like a real response. So it's not currently conducive to spontaneous cross-experts from east to west or vice versa. We have to have a new tent across. So I think if we're thinking about downtown the place would be the best one to come and kind of spontaneously visit the different businesses. Main Street does not facilitate that right now because it is, its first priority is auto is not pedestrians. So I think that hurts the walkability and the endurance in that sort of sense of connection to the east and the west. And I think that that is really creating a solution to be able to thought about how to more seamlessly tie them together. So let me ask you this. If there was one thing that the city could do to improve that, what would it be? Make pedestrians a true priority. And how would we do that? Well, I would ask it's just slightly different. You clearly have a vision in your mind as people you've liked in the past who's like this, can we pull on other examples that might be, that you might be thinking about? To me when I'm in downtown Fort Collins 287 feels like you could pass back and forth. And I think to me it's that you can casually pass back and forth without thinking about it. When you just see something across the street now when you go over there and you're not like, oh, that's kind of a thing. So I think downtown Fort Collins is more conducive than almost all we are. Marcia? Yeah, just to piggyback on John's question and while Phil was standing here. Um. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Well, because I'm thinking about the Coffman Street extension and diversion and have you done any analysis as to whether the impact of that will move mainstream in the direction John was talking about? By Denver? That's exactly, that's a great segue into I think the next conversation topic because what we're really trying to do is with that Coffman Street as pole some of that traffic and make it a safer traffic on Coffman and pull some of that bus traffic at least off of the mainstream. So we're trying to make the whole, both corridors to be more pedestrian friendly by doing that. Chris, morning. So currently, I'm with John at Coffman Street and when he says it's traffic oriented, it's great at my stuff. So one way you can see that when you go to the coin across if you don't press that button you're going to have a long way. And even if you press the button you're going to have a long way. Okay. And my number is just mid block. I don't know if it's been there. Okay. You know what I'm talking about? Mid block crossing. That's the thing that's crossing the limit. And I've followed the rules and I've also almost been hit by people who are doing other things in the car. So there's the difference in the speed of traffic especially in the morning. See, so moving the bus traffic over actually might make the traffic speed up because they have less of a reason to stop it. You know? Yeah. Because that's the main thing that's going to go over on Coffman Street. Well, interesting, Coffman Street doesn't have any good bus traffic, right? They're just on corners. And they're just seeing bigger, like the medium to bigger, that middle parking lane seems to have some slow down. What's that speed for? I think it gives you permission to walk to the middle. Well, I don't really feel like I can say for J-Walker. Right. You wouldn't have to do that here. The buttons are different too compared to downtown. I'm not sure. I wonder how they can never push the button to the middle. Yeah. The buttons, and I know I've said this and you've got to say they just, they don't work. They don't work half the time to press them and they don't work. And I've known enough to look at the timing of the other lights. And when those stop, and I'm in J-Walker as well, but I also know when I'm pushing the envelope and J-Walking when I shouldn't. And also, I could walk as slow as I wanted at the crawl across, and it's not going to matter. And the timing is too quick. And I understand there's some standard, but I will tell you it's too quick. And one day, I was crossing with a woman in a walker and I know that people say, what about a woman in a walker? Well, I was there and really saw the panic. And I'm like, I was just kind of standing by or something like, oh my goodness. But it was awful. And she said, these are awful for me. And I mean, my heart broke for her. Yeah, at the signalized. Yeah, at the signalized. And we waited, and we got the walk sign. And she was a relatively quick walker. You know what I mean? She wasn't like, not having, so anyway, it was just really stressful to be in that situation. So I think that's bad. When I went to college, and I know this will make people melt down, but you hit that crosswalk and you can cross diagonally. Everybody stopped. The pedestrians were king. And I think that is the kind of message that we really want to say here, that this truly is a lockable. And it's okay for us to wait two to three minutes in the traffic patterns to get people where they want to go. Well, there's, there's, give a take with that. I mean, there's gonna be offsets to that, right? So it sounds good. We wanted to make things great for the pedestrian. I walked here today. It was an interesting walker from my building for this whole thing. But I think I get your point, but we always have to think about the trade-offs too. That's what we're gonna have to do when we start really diving into this is we're gonna have to start talking about, are we willing to give up this for that? What would we give up for that? What would be the major impacts in your mind? Well, I mean, we talked about worst. So there's 30,000 vehicles a day of trying to travel up and down on a given day. So we're gonna try to slow them down. I think that's fair. I think people would still stay on that corridor to go slower and they'd still be able to do that. But would there be some loss of that traffic that we go into? Would that congestion on an added delay cause people to then use the rest of our grid system in the downtown and start to cheat it on Kimbark and Coffin? I know people already do use Kimbark as one of their major ways to get around Main Street. So are we pushing that traffic into other areas of downtown that we really don't wanna see? Or do we wanna, it goes back to kind of this point of, maybe we wanna slow people down on Main Street, but then there's a balancing act, right? I mean, right. That's what the traffic engineer is doing every day. He's trying to balance this whole thing. And I know it doesn't sound, when you're trying to walk across Main Street, you're like, damn, I need to get a company. You know, I pushed the button, I've been standing here for 30 seconds at least, or a minute, and where's my walk signal? So I think we just have to, I'm not gonna think of all of them right here right now, but I think if we were to really evaluate the situation, we need to be very careful about where we push that traffic. Do you have a sense of how much of that 30,000 is just completely passed through and how much of this kind of destination would benefit? Unfortunately, I can only give you a study that's about nine years old, not almost 10 years old. And when we did that, and it didn't change much from the one we did 10 years before that, and it's probably time to update it, but we saw this at very minimal. It was like five to 10% were just cutting through. And we were just really surprised by that information. I think we've seen a lot of the cut-through traffic jumping over to Hover, so that's another issue. I mean, those are other streets that are gonna be impacted by what we do on Main Street. So we just have to be ready for that, and we have to plan for it. So if we're ahead of it, I think we'll be fine, but a lot of these things that we're talking about, we just have to put it into different segments of how we deal with it. So it'll work, but don't take time. And at the end of the day, we definitely recognized during the Main Street quarter plan, we worked closely with public works on that and continue to work with them. I mean, Main Street is a state highway. It still has a job to move cars as well as move people. And so really thinking about what that balance is and maybe that shifts a little. Well, we have to talk about it too. It's moving people, right? Right. And whether they're in a bus, whether they're walking there. Yes, it is. Is it one? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and so we, I mean, we continue to talk about this with Tyler and others. I would say on a daily, if not, you know, it's on a daily basis. The issue's been going back for years. Yeah. It's always about the walking. Yeah. Other board members don't want to be paying one thing, but I would say this board is saying we think first priority should be pedestrians. Okay. That's great. And we'll be able to get other consequences after that. That helps us a lot. And we'll take that up to the city council as well, because I'll be the other piece of the TNV, Transportation Advisory Board too. So it's going to be, it starts, you know, it's been kind of simmering for a while. So let's bring it to a boil. This says focus on pedestrian cars. There's the railroad too. And so do we have any influence with the NSF to have a discussion around when the rail road comes through our downtown? Because it's always like during peak traffic. It's always going to be a block, right? Noon and passable. So we have a road. We don't, it's actually not on the schedule, but we just tell people that's what it always seems. It always seems like that train is coming. We actually, we had a contingent of folks or a group of folks go out to Fort Worth last Friday. And they met with BNSF on a bunch of different issues. And it was clear from that meeting that they are not, it's not going to work to try to get them to do things that go against their delivery of freight. That's really what they're in the business for their private company, trying to deliver freight as fast as possible to make the most dollar for that to deliver as long as possible. I hear that you're from a business standpoint. We ask them just to move their engines a little further down. They're like, you have a better chance of moving like this. So we try, we try, I just want to say we try, but I mean, and sending, you know, the mayor out to Fort Worth, Texas to the BNSF facility to kind of talk about some of these issues, as well as just getting the train, passenger train service from Beard and Denver is the glitch, right? It's a tough, it's a tough. So we don't have to end this conversation because I think your presentation will, you know, we're gonna continue to talk about transportation. I'm sure we will all day. And we can continue to have this dialogue about different ideas that you all have that we can take back. I will also say, continue thinking about kind of this character area where there might be natural race, like the districts that we showed a second ago. We can talk about that more when we talk about the 200 block conversation. But I do want to make sure we give Phil time to talk about Hoffman Street. So we should still have one thing. I just want to sum up one thing. When you talk about pedestrian improvement and what that looks like on Main Street, I think what we hear time to time again is, I would use the mid-block because I don't know what we're going to do. So there are ways to make those safer and then easier cut routes. These developments that might be the flashing might be a possibility. So we did put that in the Main Street corridor plan and I actually asked Tyler about that last night in advance of this conversation. Really what we need to do, and CDOT did participate with us in the Main Street plan, really we need to initiate that conversation with them because that's something that they were maybe a little more than lukewarm in the downtown. But certainly we need to study what does that look like and so Tyler did commit, yeah, that's a conversation we need to have with CDOT and that we need to get that going sooner rather than later. I'm sure he's sick of me asking about it. The folks we work with at CDOT are the same folks that work up into the column. It's the same group, so they get it and they work in Boulder too. And he has done some estimates on what the cost is so we do have a lot of the data and I think more than ready to go with that so I would see that that's something we can, I think that is sort of low hanging for, I don't know that Tyler would agree with me, but I think those are conversations that we'll have sooner rather than later. It's fair to say that that's a priority for this board that they will pick up there. So I think that one of the projects that Dore and I are working on with public works and natural resources is raising that median that's right in front of the Halloween station. So you kind of have that median, which is giving you that visual clue that you're in a work pedestrian area. However, it's back to a freeway feel on the 200 block. And so I know that in our master plan in different places is adding those medians on the 200 blocks to make sure that kind of a seamless feel. Again, that's a good thing though, is that's going to be the medians walk people from being able to walk across, right? So the 100 block. The group walkers. It's got a lot, just walk them up. Well, if you want to be more comfortable, I have to go to the signal. I'm just saying it's always, this is a balancing act that continues in the framework. So in the main street corridor plan we do show a median in the 200 block with the mid block crossing. And again, that's something we need to obviously work with CDOT on. And I think the other piece of that is continuing to work with those 200 block business owners. Because certainly for folks on the west side, that access limitation is going to have some impacts and they may not be super excited about that. So I think that's something we may want to work with you all on. We do have one free act in there of a person that's redeveloping a lot there. We just talked a lot about them. They had two perpetrators. Let them know that this could be company about them in their site plan to close one of them. And so I don't think that those things are insurmountable and I think that because there's so much underutilized land on that block, doing it now and taking the hit instead of later as people are making their decisions makes a little bit more sense. So we will be doing a follow up that I have gotten several comments from people on that 200 block saying, well, how are we gonna really work out a place now where it's not least and solidarity with the 100 block? So I do think that that's something to consider as far as traffic calming and making those connections. And the third thing I will add is I feel like we could fund a police officer or two out of ticket revenue. They actually enforce the speech when it just went into the ADA. They would over with their salary. And I don't know what we can do. I think I've told this story a thousand times. They do a click-in or ticket. They stood on Main Street for two days. They stopped the speeders and they won the click-in or ticket contest every time. They've gotten more out of the entire state of seat belt violation just by enforcing that speed limit. So we do that more often. I think it would be clear if there's not a place that you're just speaking for. Those are my pretty takeaways. I don't know how you all feel about this. Do you want to get out of the crime when it comes down to the test of the 200 block now? I mean, if you had more lots of alleys, it would be kind of draggled in there. But Main Street, that's probably the alleys there. They don't have an industry curve kind of plan, right? You're doing that first. And we were just talking about this this morning, too. We were saying, well, if we do an alley escape project in that 200 block, it might have to be more robust, a little bit more beefier than that. Then we've, you know, more decorative than we have. I mean, the ones north are more decorative, maybe. And this one might have to do more work as far as access is. They also need to give up it. So, yeah, nothing to worry about. You okay there? Yeah, you're good. I started talking about my current project. That's fine. Yeah, sorry. So this is my life these days. It was just great. I love this project. And thank you very much for coming and chatting about this with you guys. I really appreciate your time. And I'll try to be quick with your time because I know it's valuable. So really to talk about Main Street now, we all know exactly what's out there. We walk, you know, it's pretty evident. Basically with four foot walkways kind of varied, those vary. We have about the nine and a half foot tree lawn that varies as well. We have nine to 18 feet of parking. If you see down the other side of the photo here, we have some parallel parking and then we have some angle parking. So it kind of works its way out to 19 to 18 feet. They're pretty wide travel lanes for cars. So 13 feet is well beyond what we really need. Think of Main Street, it has 10 foot travel lanes. So if we're able to move buses in 10 feet, okay. They're a little slow and they have to kind of be ready for that door to open and things like that on parallel parking on Main Street. We also have 13 foot center lane, center turn lane. That's pretty generous as well. That actually varies. That can be up to 15 feet in some places. So pretty amazing. But if you think about all that, we have 100 feet of existing right away. And that's pretty standard for the city, right? Old town, most of those streets in old town have that. Even Main Street has 100 feet of parking here, Mark. I think that all those streets, I think about doors and fifths, how wide those streets are as well. So what we're talking about is really the vision for this is to talk about it a little differently and try to move more people in different ways. And so there's a couple things that are going on with this and there's some elements that we kind of have to key in on for this project to really work and to get that funding. Because the funding has been allocated and I'll go over that at the end. But really to get that funding and to be securing that funding, we have to meet some certain elements that kind of promised as part of this project to get the funding. And it really is the multimodal aspect of this project. So we need to add a bus lane or bus lanes. So we need to figure out, this will be part of the final design piece too. And I'll go over a little bit of the schedule. I should have put that first, but that's, I just want to go over the elements of this project and talk a little bit about it. We need to add the bus lanes to get the money. We really need to have the separated bike lanes as well. You know, they're showing it's attached, but as you kind of move further away from the intersections, they become what we call separated. So they're actually separated from the traffic, which is nice. But they're not only going to maintain the same number of traffic lanes, so we don't want to take away from what's out there now, but realizing that they're not getting, I talked about 30,000 vehicles per day on Main Street. This is getting like 70,000 vehicles per day. So you can kind of take that, with that relative comparison, I guess, of the different traffic. We also need to accommodate parking still and trees. We heard about the clear trees, but that was more from where we went out. And we really want to kind of keep the carry through this area together. So we're going to push for those things. That's not part of, we don't need to include trees and necessarily part of getting this money, but we do need to include that. So that's what really was excited the folks when we went out to the business hours a couple of months ago. And also I'm happy to mention connections. This is a piece of, this is a piece of getting in my ears. Enhancing those, we showed four foot sidewalks in the previous slide. We really need to make sure that those are much, much better than just the four foot walkway. Any questions with this kind of level of, this is just, just to be clear, this is like a 1% to 5% design. So what's happened is, we've asked people, can we fit this into this corridor with a hundred feet pilot? They're saying yes, we can fit it, but you'll need to do more final design in order to make sure you know what you're getting in there. So what kind of problems are we trying to solve with this project? Really the road is just, there's this call, I mean it's pretty well, it's at the end of life. So I think you saw us late fall last year doing some quick patchwork and that's just to kind of save this thing, so we can get into this next project. So it's really at the end of life and we need to get out there and not just do general maintenance like asphalt and repaving and these kind of things. We need to do major utility work in that corridor. And so this is all kind of helping together. I was really going to rebuild the street. I hate to, I don't want to scare people, but we are going to have to completely rebuild the street. This isn't just what you see here, it's just kind of an overlay project. This is going to be some digging and getting to the sewers and getting to the water and getting to the electric and maybe ungrounding some of that stuff as well. So working with all our utility groups to make sure that this project needs their needs as well. And I'm back in there in one or two or five years. It's going to be one of these things that we'll be good with for a decade hopefully before we have to go back in there. So that's one of the issues and when I kind of look at this big trial, I also think of roadway lighting. So you think of main street, not even on a wide main street ever, in this, especially in the DGA area. So how do we then, and it goes back to the point before, how do we move some of the traffic and let Kauffman take some of the load from main street, not necessarily all the traffic, but maybe some of the buses and things like that as well. And so we are trying to solve, we are trying to move people. So at the end of this project, we're just trying to move people with understanding that there's a bus rapid transit corridor coming in 2024, 25 from RTD. So they're going to be working and we're working with Boulder County and City of Boulder to get that bus rapid transit working between the two cities. We're going to, there's a lobbying trip plan for Washington in March. We're all going out as a big loving group, right? And so we're going to all get together and we're going to come together as a pretty big group and we get a lot of queues from our delegation in Washington saying, a lot of people who are all kind of saying the same thing, which is great. So we're going to be pushing for bus rapid transit. They're going to be pushing, they don't have to push for our Kauffman Street project anymore, but there's other elements that we're going to be working on and that's a whole nother presentation I could do on HOVER in 119 is really, we're going to go for a pretty major $20 million joint build grant, which is a type of grant from the federal government for that portion of the corridor and it helps get our bus rapid transit through that corridor a little faster as well. So moving people, moving them on my team, you know, a lot of buses is going to walk comfortably as well as moving the traffic that's in that corridor still. Another idea that we really can't widen, there is some congestion issues. And so how do we get around some of these congestion issues? This is 119 in Maine, so it's not really on Main Street, but it does show you some of the buses that are actually going to be turning onto Main Street and how they use that corridor. So one of the problems that we're trying to solve is as things get more congested on Main Street, how do we take care of handle that traffic? And one way is to, you know, we could build more lanes, we don't want to do that, I don't think. That's not right for anybody. We could put more people on mass transit. And I think that's what we're trying to prove here is that we can make mass transit more appealing to people to be able to use. Because what I hear is, I'd love to take the bus to Boulder but it takes twice as long for me to do that and it's maybe even three times as long to do that as driving my car. So the idea is to get people to use different modes, use different times of day to travel as well. And we're kind of putting them on a different route which is kind of a way to handle some of that congestion. So the project timelines are pretty quick. We just, we need to really get going on final design in 2020. So that's why I'm working on now is to try to get a consultant on board to start working through the final design aspects of this. And once we get the consultant on board, the idea will be, we will want to go out and they will do some robust public outreach to make sure we're talking about what we all want collectively as a city in that corridor. And so I think people at this table are going to be critical to that discussion. So, although you saw the elements we have to have in the project, I think you saw some variability there too. So we can have some say in that. It's going to have to be directed and very clear. So those things are coming. Then construction is planned to begin in 2022, 2023, depending on how that final design work goes. So that's really that construction period where it's really going to be pretty tough to get around on the portions of Kaplan and we're going to try to phase it so that we can still get through and work maybe on half of the road and allow the other half to kind of operate as two-way traffic that's in the elimination part and obviously for that piece of it, for the construction piece of it, it doesn't mean it's going to be the final design piece, but for the construction, I can foresee that we would have to eliminate all the parking to facilitate some kind of detour on that route. And then the project would be complete. Hopefully, it's not supposed to be crossed out, but then 2023 or early 24 is really when we're planning to have that project open to the public and start moving the buses as we kind of envision as well as the other people that could work. Any questions on schedule? I know it's aggressive. I'm going to go through why it's so aggressive in just a moment. It's really the funding piece of this. And so we've been, again, with this coalition of folks, and I know we always kind of, you know, we kind of don't be like Boulder, don't do anything with Boulder, but they've been a great partner with us and they really want to see us exceed them in this because we're starting to, you know, talk more kind of in line with what they're thinking is, let's get more people on different modes of traffic so we don't have to expand our roads. Because I think, again, I think you'll see this coming up pretty soon here, too, is that we're just, we can't maintain roads and build new roads and expect to maintain that added capacity. So we're really at a point where we're saying, okay, let's take a look at everywhere where we need to widen. Is it because it's a bottleneck? Is it because it's a serious issue or a safety issue? That's what we want to be. It's not going to be downtown, right? So we need to start thinking about the city a little differently, I think, in the future, as a city that doesn't just widen roads anymore. So that's going to be kind of right. It seems to be where the future's heading and we're going to definitely be talking to our city councils about whether that makes sense for them as well as we move forward with that. So in 2018, we did get the tip that our trip award, it was a regional award, Boulder County submitted the application for us. The city of Boulder was in on it, we were in on it. We all came together, we all provided matching dollars for it as well. The final design is that it costs about $750,000 to do. I know that sounds expensive and it keeps going up every year. It seems to do these, to do these. When I started, that was about a $250,000 project. Hold on, when I started. The last time we did something like this is about $250,000. So these costs continue to go up, which is with everything else here. The construction's about $6 million, over $6 million for the construction of that project. That's about $7 million total federal apportionment for this project. It's a good deal because the city is only going to be about $150,000 of matching dollars to get $7 million plus. So we thought that was a pretty good deal. We hope you do too, but that's kind of where we're at with that. Any questions on the plan to do this matter? Is there a contingency? So, how many times have you heard $7 million project and then it's $2,000, $10 million? So what will happen if that happens? Yeah, we tried to really throw some pretty big contingency dollars in here, at least 25%. I think we're at 25% contingency on this, just to make sure. But that's not to say over and over. You never know, I mean we might find, it's just like we did a little sidewalk project on the inside of the library. We're just gonna replace the sidewalk, it's gonna be really easy. Well, we've got a bunch of stuff underneath that sidewalk that was not planned for expected. So it's stuff that now needs to be repaired before you do the sidewalk. So this is a much bigger project and so I'm guessing we're gonna run into those issues and we have to come up with, some of our partners with Blue RTV, which is great, can't see that. They actually have a desire to better balance the traffic and offer a ministry on this project as well. So they're our partners as well. So we're gonna ask if anything happens that goes on with this project, we'll ask for a little assistance. And if we only put in $50,000, we as a city have reserves as well. Okay. Billy, one of my questions is having you the damage of the distance that we covered with this is about a half, two miles away. That's to be a mile, that's to be under a mile. That's to be under a mile. For PPE racks or environmental work. So we are from just north of first to just south of ninth. No, no, no, no, because that's what we're, we're part of the gap to the community outreach above and at $70 million in a mile. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. I think also return investments is good in our health or our work. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No. Thank you. I have a few questions. We were late. You have one, you can go ahead, I'll see if I can do a bounce back to a good slide. Yeah, one is the COPD and ANC, COPD and ANCT are crying for redevelopment. How does this product impact for the development of projects on that street? Well, that's a great question. We've been working with folks who are already in the pipeline to talk to them about kind of this vision and what could be. And so they've been very, they've been working with us very well to talk about, okay, how do we make this work, our project where we can work through this? Other folks have come forward and just want to see those preliminary plans as well. But I think it's time for me to get that final design where we'll talk with the other folks. But I think this really, we're going to introduce a number of bus riders to this corridor. So hopefully people will see that there's a value to, we're talking with folks of South Beach Station. Hopefully we'll be able to give up one or at least one car as part of living in this location with all the transit. Putting that transit on that corridor and making it so robust and also have it be very walkable as well. Hopefully, we'll hopefully attract folks to that corridor as well. So we can, you know, we'll go back to the whole idea of land uses and industry plan and how does this kind of hit all those different marks? And then given sort of all the challenges that RTE is wrestling with, if they're not able to keep up with this timeline, what's the contingency plans for that? Well, we're lucky, we're happy, and we're very excited that we are the ones strengthening this project. RTE keeps coming to us and oh, thank you for putting in bus lines as part of this project and it's part of the application. And so we really got those dollars for us. And so they're kind of standing back on this one. And when we talk about first main later in the day, you'll hear a little bit more activity of RTE getting involved, but this is really the City of Wal-Mart project. And RTE is a partner. Yeah, I have a question for you back. When you're talking about these wagon traffic and all kinds of things, you'll be saying currently there's 30,000 vehicles in general in a given day. Above that, what percentage of the bus category that will be redirected? Because part of the question is, while we're talking about redirected, what will be the incentive to push additional traffic forward once it's completed? Yeah, I think the thing there is that the buses are a small percentage for the all day. But the buses are a very large percentage in the PMP. So we'll start talking about four of seven. We'll start to see buses stacked in three, and you guys all can only see this as well. You'll see three or three, and it's not even four buses, trying to be in the name of two, because they're all kind of hitting Wal-Mart at the same time. It's a small, small percentage of the absolute, about 30,000 or 130,000 vehicles per day. So that's a 24-hour day, right? So buses aren't running at certain times. So we always kind of count stack on how many people are actually being moved at certain times. And I think what we're really going to do is move a lot more people to that Coffman Street corridor, whether they're on a bus, bike, they're walking, they're in the car. Actually, the cars probably won't be there at all, right? The cars, the single-off and vehicle or even the carpools, they probably stay in the Main Street corridor. And that's okay, that goes back to the idea of maybe a little congestion is a good thing. Again, I have a whole set of slides that talk about congestion being not terribly bad, especially on Main Street where people can actually look at some of the businesses as they are something. But the buses cause a different issue because that's a safety issue now and we're starting to get people, pedestrians as well are running into issues as far as trying to get a mid-block but the bus keeps going and can't see them at night. And so that's where we want to do the flashing of the vehicles as well. I don't know about that, actually, the question, but I don't like that it's something. Yeah, close. Yeah. What was the overall sentiment of the business owners and property owners as you talked to them in that order? What would you say? I was a, and frankly, if I'm not right, I would say cautiously out in the state. I mean, there are a lot of questions. And I think we are pretty much a player that really, there's a character to that corridor that we don't want to lose with some of the things we're showing today is, we're really trying to keep, we're actually trying to move the sidewalk edge or the curb line here and keep all the traffic kind of pushes to the middle. So we're, it's going to change the character we can't. We can't keep it the way it is. And that would be not changing the character. It's keeping it exactly the way it is. And we can't do that to still move people effectively. So the corridor's going to change the character, but people are very, they want the trees, they want to walk, they want to be safe when they cross the streets. So that's going to, well, I heard, I don't know, there's some other things I've been saying. You know, parking, obviously. Oh, parking. Well, that's what I'm talking about. For no doubt, that's what I'm talking about. Parking, yeah. And I heard from neighborhoods afterward, I heard from neighbors, again, a lot of worrying about the character. However, I would say that there's no character today at all of that street. It's overbuilt, it's underused, it has traffic lights for no reason. So I would say, I think an important thing to say is, this isn't the character you want, right? We understand you also don't want a state highway feel. And so how do we kind of paint that vision and balance what that's going to be? I think we will hear Bill and I got a request from the Westside neighborhood to come talk about this. So normally our Westside neighbors don't have much to say. They're happy to live around, but we made here a little bit more about this project. So I do think that, oh, we're just at the beginning of this, right? Oh, well, when you talk about character, and if you are, you mentioned utility, so could we put an infrastructure to bring more streetcates, streetcates items to this street? Absolutely not. If within a corridor, we got the CDBG grant for the 100 and 200 block. Yeah. Could we apply for that again and incorporate the lighting? You know, if I think enhanced lighting would be pretty important on this. Well, I think what we've counted, what we counted in is better street lighting. New traffic signals. They're actually going to be more less friendly, so that they'll be able to, the infusers are actually our oldest traffic signals in town, so we're waiting for this project to kind of take another, I think we want some ancient traffic signals. There's some coming in a little soon, but yeah. And so we'll also look at landscapes. So we have a landscape architect who's going to be part of our project team. And so the trees are big as well. Yeah. Did you have a? Oh, yeah, well, it sounded like a lot of land. But yeah, it sounded like a lot of land later. That's going to be part of the first of the discussion. I asked you, I've been an email about the Fort Collins Connection. So they're complex right now. Is that all one can change with our connection in plus to Fort Collins? You know, if anything, it helps them because it provides kind of a less corridor than to run on. They make it actually job people at the Hawkins Hill. They're talking about, it doesn't make more sense for them just to do that. And they go back and forth or do they want to come all the way down to Fort Collins? But this makes it sort of the forward more attractive to that bus service. They're a completely different bus service than RTD, which is great. So they actually want to move people more than money, I guess. But yeah, I should say that. That's true. They've been great to work with. And so they want to be part of this. So when David and I met with the commercial brokers and we were talking about office and office tenants or what they're hearing about, one of the things about capturing people that was quite bold or was a concern of, it's still harder to get here. Certainly if you are bringing your people from the Denver Metro area, it's that much further, that's much harder. If bus rapid transit works, and I say yes because you gave us a good timeline for RTD, although when John asked the question, I find it a little hands off although there are a partner here. And if that date gets moved 30 years like the train did, then all of this doesn't really help. If their bus rapid transit date for 2024-25 gets moved out then from 2030 or 2035, that's not very helpful. What is the likelihood of that happening? Anything's possible. That's very possible, but the idea is they're being pushed by a large group of folks that feel like they haven't gotten what they need to get from fast tracks. So there's a very loud group all along the corridor, I'll say, all along the northwest, throughout the corridor that's yelling at this point about better service. And some of them have gotten it along the 36th corridor, right? So they're saying, okay, well, yes, we understand rail's not coming soon but we have this. We don't have anything that kind of supplements or helps move people and we need to do that now. So that's one piece of it. The other piece of it is if we look at what our TV is carrying right now, it's, when I talk about that 47 PM range, the buses are coming once every, they're averaging like once every, I think four to five minutes. And when they do bus traffic changes, it seems like they're going three to four minutes. So we still can use the help, I think, when we have, I mean, just today, if we were to put this down with no changes of what kind of our service, I think we'd be doing a great service in the city as far as moving those buses into the corridor. I think as we look at regional transportation, one of the things that everyone wants to try to do is a place where companies can locate and get talent from both Fort Collins, Boulder, and Denver. And if we can get this transportation, especially on the Coffman Street corridor, as we look at that as being more of an employment spot, you can even see in this picture, lots of unregulated land, tons of it on all of them. I think really working with those entities to make sure that we truly do, we have this natural bridge between Northern Colorado and the Denver Metro area, and it really can come less all here in our downtown. Has anybody exactly been waiting between downtown Fort Collins and downtown? Yeah. Yeah. I think with exactly the point that we found one time. Yeah, so those are things I think that we need to talk about and that in a region where we're having this conversation that we're looking at, that's why this is so important to connect these two from one to another. And I just think that's an asset that we need to continue to push on our broken farm. Just one line of comment for me is, you know, I can imagine for Bill, for you, and Aaron, for you that sometimes a little frustrating to hear has to be raising issues and things like that. One thing that I see is this is a sign of real progress, that as we make progress and as our downtown becomes more robust, our standards and expectations elevate. You know, it's only pond streets on the besides making no character across. And now you want to, because there's some really interesting stories over there, so this is a sign that we're elevating our expectations. I think this interviews the possibility of downtown overall as well. If you want somebody to park and move throughout the whole D.A. without using a car or this project helps a portion of the time feel more walkable. And we'd like to do the same thing someday, but do the same thing on the Kimbar. Yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of enhancements we can do to Kimbar, pedestrian-wise, especially, if you really want to take a part of the work. Kimb bicycles quite frankly, we could add bicycles to that. We'll try to keep the bicycle traffic on. Could we also eventually do something that may be sensitive to this? I don't know how to gravitate in front of this. While you're tearing up that street, if there is a business that wants to do some kind of improvement in the front of their building. Fortune-construction, right? You're sure? Typically, whenever the city does a construction project in front of the building, it impacts somebody. They won't go out and just see if there's anything that the business or the resident needed as far as while we're in here doing the office work, anyway, was there something that you needed? Ooh, that's great. Yeah. Yeah. And if you have all this mechanization mobilized, you might as well take advantage of it. Do you know where the water is on that block? Does it actually go down on the street? You know, when people need a big water line, do they have a restaurant in the future? All right, yeah, I'm not sure. I think it goes down the top. I think it's in the top of the street. Anyway, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, I think I heard Baxter say we want to stick to the times on the agenda, right? That's correct. So, we're pretty close. There were a couple of questions that we wanted to ask the board and conversation. We know you guys love to talk about parking, but in the spirit of keeping us to our agenda, we thought we might defer some of those questions, still continue to think about things that Phil mentioned. I think some of the ideas that you guys just touched on, note those on your place map and we can kind of get back to those towards the end of the day, but I think we'll take a break now. Yeah, and there was one exercise regarding our position on parking, and that's really what got bumped. And I hope that we get time to do that today. It's in your packet. I think it's number three in your packet, you'll see number four. Chief, do you have a chance of a break or something to look at that? We get pressures on parking 100% of the time and we need to have a good position that is coming from you all, our board to say to people, we're never gonna say it's not important. We need to know where that priority lies and how much we're gonna push, not only for this, but for parking around downtown. You all see the parking study, if you know the real data, you know we're really looking at. So that's something that I think we'll revisit, but I think it's an important exercise to do. If you can't get it in today, then I promise you it'll be on the March agenda. And just know that this worksheet, and I'm happy to talk to you about what it is, it's really a tool. It's not a worksheet designed to help us solve our parking problem, in quotes. It's really a worksheet designed to help the board develop a very clear, concise, and consistent message that when you're asked about parking, when we talk about parking, that we're talking about it in the same way. We're talking about what's important, we're talking about why it's important and kind of how we're thinking about it in the future. So we will, we can talk more about it, we will talk more about it. It's helpful to do this kind of, both individually and as a group, so we would need to revisit it together, but we will have that conversation. If it's not today, we can do it potentially at a future board meeting or something. Oh wow. Right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you, Bill. Okay, thank you for your talk. Okay. Got to share. So I know it's basically working on this great presentation that we don't ever get to get to, so this was a quote that I think was funny, but as it's really for our parking discussion, and you don't remember to even read the appointments, fine, what are those needs are? Don't worry, touched on that. We will certainly give that as we are happy to visually convince others and property owners, which we can talk about along with the parking message is, as we're getting questions on why would we do this in the parking industry, if we get a little bit more into that design, I think the board will want a consistent message as to what our goals are for this project, why we're supporting it, because we'll move on a little bit more to that. So a couple of common street developments, I just wanted to make sure, or continue to be on your radar, is the parking and housing project that I know you're really aware, the parking amount for five years, the 500 Topman, which is the phase two, the Elks Lodge, they did kick off their historical assessment, Dore and I met with a consultant doing it and a group of board members from the Elks, that will take about four to six months to finish up, and so they're looking at the integrity of that building, the viability of saving it, changing in what parts are gonna work, and so that one formed that decision. There's also a group that I talked to you about, it's a development team that has come and asked us about some different parcels and properties. We did meet, they took a tour of the Elks, talked to them about possibly joining a structure, but are also looking at that, and the Elks decide to keep the building as is, looking at that 300 West parking lot, and so they are gonna do some proposals for us to look at. One of the things that they're looking at is a new construction site, it's a modular construction, so we went down with, I went down with Brian from Planning, and Sonya Shukana, the redevelopment manager, and looked at a project that they were doing in Denver, and I think you guys might have been looking at some of this, Joe, I think some of the modular constructions, different pieces of it, where they literally build these containers out and they're completely done, and then they stack up, or they're not containers, that's from how that's built, so we looked at that, that's something they're considering looking at, so I just wanted to let you know, is that something that's more substantial, or it can be a lot of work? It is highly mixed use, so a lot of they, they're just, who knows, they're moving it underground parking, very activated alley, and around the floor, and you can't pop this, do you wanna switch to presentation? And I'll give this a thank you. We do have an update for this particular project, it's been several months since we talked about it, and you'll see a much different design, I believe, than you saw in the last look, something that we've been working on for a bit, so I'll put it over to you, all of them. Thank you so, so early, it's been a wonderful partnership, I'm Valerie Roy, Deputy Director of the Boulder County Housing Authority, and Justin Lightfield is our housing developer with the Boulder County Housing Authority, but yes, the project has come a long way, and it's thanks in large part to Kimberly's participation, as well as working closely with the city planning department, and keeping Cotton's burden from burdening me, so the architects have been super busy, all but the interior and the exterior, and making some really nice public connections, right-of-way connections, both to Main Street, as well as along this awesome opportunity we have with Kauffman becoming such an amazing transit corridor, so with that, I'll turn it over to Justin. Sure, so we're gonna start with an overview of design updates here, and again, LDDA, particular Kimberly has been a large participant of what I like to call the democratic design process with the city, with the burdens, and LDDA as partners with the Boulder County Housing Authority, so I think what you see before you today is a well-redefined product that we're happy to present to you all today. We are resubmitting for site development permit this week for land entitlements, and simultaneously we're working towards building permit as well, and resubmitting in the month of March for our next work package. So, as an overview, the project is mixed use, there's a residential component that's going to have 73 homes, as we call them, 59 one-bedrooms, 10 two-bedrooms, and four three-bedrooms. For the mixed use components, on the commercial side, we have a workforce enterprise cache that is going to be on Kauffman Street side, approximately 3,000 square feet, and that's going to be an opportunity for both residents and locals to work on improving job skills and adding this experience to their resume. It's going to be sort of like a small coffee shop where people can eat sandwiches and have coffee available to the long line community. There's also going to be 6,000 square feet of Boulder County offices on the alley side of this project. And last but not least, of course, the parking components. So about 60% of the site will be set aside for parking garage, which will contain 260 parking spaces, which will be divided up amongst the affordable housing piece, Boulder County, the Longmont Downtown Development Authority, and our left properties as well. So four stakeholders. Existing conditions, of course, this is directly across the street from the hub between Fifth and Sixth Avenue on Kauffman Street. As you all know, it's currently a, I would say, underutilized piece of land. It is utilized as a parking lot, but of course we have to ask ourselves, is that the best use in the heart of Downtown Longmont? And that's where this project gets moving forward for the mixed use proposal. Currently on this right side here, you'll see 72 spaces that are current parking spaces for Boulder County. Below that in green are 25 spaces on site for LBDA. In that graphic, the total is actually 41. And the way we're getting that total is on street parking to the east of Kauffman will be shut down for Jersey Barriers and Pensing, as well as the southern piece to the north of the site, 10 spaces, again, for staging. This is a zero lot line development. And so what that tells is a very difficult construction procedure, I would say, where there's very limited area for storage and staging for a hard construction procedure. So that's why parking will be shut down in those areas. And of course, just to the south of the site, in the orange, 22 spaces currently for Boulder County. So this is a floor plan, it's a little bit of a culpacy on here, but that's why I gave you all handouts of what the site will look like. So it's been flipped, Kauffman Street is to the bottom here, six avenue to the left and fifth to the right-hand side. Again, approximately 40% of the site, to this left-hand side is the residential component. And to the right, this 60% will be parking garage. Now on the first floor, we have that commercial piece where, is there a laser pointer here? Do you want to show it to me? Oh, well, okay, I'll just point, good thing I'm tall. So this southern portion here is that enterprise cafe space. We're trying to build sort of a public private space where people can bring cafe tables and chairs out to that space. We're also talking about putting in garage doors that will lift up all glass. Again, to create the space that invites people into the cafe. And then just above that is the BCHA office space of 6,000 square feet. So above the commercial here is the extension of the garage that comes all the way down so approximately that line. So parking distribution, that these are some of the bulk of the questions that we get on a regular basis from LDDA and of course Boulder County as a whole. During daytime hours, they still have yet to be finalized, but you know, normal working hours of 7.30 to five or eight to five. Our residents would get approximately 30 spaces. Boulder County 85, Arlett 75 and LDDA of the city of Longmont 70 spaces. So everyone in this model and in this agreement is getting a large increase in what is currently there onsite. And the way that this works after working hours is it essentially opens up to the public. So Arlett spaces and Boulder County spaces then open up to potential parking spaces for our residents but also the greater public that is parking in downtown for evening events and going to see the businesses downtown. Just going to kind of skip through some of this. This is looking at the residential components of the elevation. We have a few draft residents that actually give a better idea of what this final building will look like. We're talking about using a variety of materials that LDDA and the burdens have assisted with and suggesting. And so on the corner here, this is Kauffman in the foreground and six to the left hand side. It's sort of this beacon or a tower feature where we're accenting that with metal panels and storefront glass that will go from floor to ceiling on the first and second floor to bring in a lot of light to both our leasing offices as well as a community space up on the second floor. We're also looking at stucco panels that you'll see reflected on the hub across the street. And some of these areas as well. And finally looking at and analyzing a material here in the middle of the building, which maybe is shipwrap material that you would find on more residential structures to give it a residential component. And on the first level, you'll see that we really tried to tie this to Main Street by bringing in a large amount of brick as well as ground face. You'll see a sample up here. So brick is sort of the main feature of the first floor with a smaller portion of, I would say, six to 12 inches of ground face that wraps around the entire building to make it pretty cohesive. Design, again, this is now looking at the second half of the building on the parking garage side. Down here on the first floor, you'll see the cafe space with those rolling garage doors that are all glass allowing people to see in and open those up when it's nice outside. And stained concrete as well to give it more character than what you would just see on a standard blank concrete facade. And this will be brought up a bit later by Kimberly or myself, the panels that we're looking at for this project. We're trying to find a way to work with LVDA and art and public places to potentially bring more light into this parking garage side through a panel design RFP process to national artists. So this is just a rendering, again, showing all that I talked about to give you a better sense of what it looks like. This is Kauffman on this side and six avenue here. So the residential component of the building in the foreground sort of going towards the background there is the garage. And this is a shot looking directly from six avenue looking south of what the side of the building will look like. There's a series of courtyards that I didn't mention earlier that kind of tie this building together allowing a whole enough space for residents to congregate together and have a, an outdoor setting in an urban apartment. So construction time again, one of the other main questions we're asked is when will this begin? Where we're at right now, we're working with our lender and investor on financial closing. And so there are a lot of different moving pieces and parts of that. Part of that is also securing land entitlements and building permit from the city of Longmont. So this is a current snapshot of where we're at. And so financial closing, looking at that in the end of April, with that, once that begins, construction and that lot across the street would shut down to public parking with staging beginning approximately a week or two after that. Construction will last approximately 18 months. So the timeline we have before you today is construction would be wrapped up by October 31st, 2021 for the entire building that's both residential, commercial, and parking garage. So overview of the parking plan. I touched on, you know, what the site is currently and talked about, those numbers of how many parking spaces are allocated towards each party as it is today. This graphic here, again, a little bit difficult to see, but the red is a outline of the perimeter fence of our site showing how that will impact parking around the site. And the yellow are Jersey barriers and how that will impact the parking on the street on call. Can I ask you a question about the 6,700 Plaza? How are those vehicles getting in and out of it? Is that really the one way to do that? Yes, we're working with our contractor to ensure that cars can still get in and out of this. It will likely lead to some restriping. And as it showed where it cuts off there, we may have to rework that to allow cars just a little bit of access there to utilize that roundabout space. So recommendations, the meeting with the public Longmont Dattel Development Authority, the verdants, and various meetings with Boulder County facilities and management staff. And this is in draft form, but I think we're getting pretty close to a final product here. So the yellow is the hub, the east is the Conference Street site that we are redeveloping and where the current parking is located. And looking at LDDA, so 41 spaces as a whole, we're working with the city of Longmont to come up with license agreements that would essentially then designate on-street parking in various areas to specific stakeholders. So the two areas that we have been working with the Transportation Consulting for a month to identify parking for LDDA, it is between Fifth and Longst, Sixth and Longst Peak Avenue on Coffman, so it's that long sliver of teal where you see the letter C. And in fact, sorry to interrupt, but this graphic is different from what you have in your packet. So the one in your packet is the most accurate and it's, so some of the highlights like on Sixth Avenue are showing up in your packet, so refer to your diagram in your packet. It's a little more updated in this version. And then the second area is on Longst Peak Avenue between Pratt and Coffman Street which would contain approximately 10 parking spaces. So that's where LDDA spaces have been designated to date. For the burdens, we've identified, believe, Three Avenue. I actually mind if I draw this. Yeah. So burdens along Terry Street between Sixth and Fifth Avenue where the letter B is located, that will provide parking for 19 spaces. And a new recommendation that has come up is on-screen parking along Sixth Avenue between Terry and Coffman Street, just north of the hub, that would provide parking for the three additional spaces for the burdens. This is just a breakdown of parking at the hub parking lot, more so for Boulder County staff. But if anyone has any questions, we can take a closer look at this at the end. So finally, we have an overview of Art and Public Places' collaboration. These are just some of the items that we brought up when we were meeting with Art and Public Places approximately a week and a half ago. Kimberly was in attendance for that. Again, we're trying to see if it would be feasible to form a partnership to have that panel system and try to find different ways to pay for that system. So, let's get through some of these. This is a local example of the panel here in Longmont, actually at Jimham Nature area. Our contractor, Hinkert Construction, has worked with the designer and manufacturer here. And this was installed in 2014 to give you a better idea of what that panel could look like. It could either be metal or steel or potentially even aluminum as well, depending upon the cost of that product. These are preliminary costs that our contractor came up with. So, for standard aluminum perforated panels, that is just a standard panel system with your square or circular punch out, so no unique design whatsoever. That would be approximately, for all the panels, combined $135,000 plus $15,000 for artist commission as well if we pursued that natural RFP process with Art in Public Places. The other cost estimate here, $228,000, is what I would assume is a more accurate picture of what that would look like with an artist design, a unique design that we would work with LDDA in Art in Public Places to come up with a theme for example, nature for the artist to actually pursue. And then on top of that, again, $15,000 for artist commission and five to 10% contingency on top of that. So, that's, and these are, again, just different slides that we use when we're presenting to Art in Public Places to consider the amount of traffic that comes through the area of potential viewers, not only car traffic, but also pedestrian and cyclist traffic as well, indicating the large amounts of viewers that would see this public installation that they were to become a stakeholder in this project. Lastly, I do want to mention there is a open house coming up, so there's sort of two things going on. One is, Lamont named that neighborhood. The portal should be open by the end of this week to allow the public and you all start voting on the finalists that our team has selected. And vote on your favorite day by March 9th, March 10th from four to six p.m. is a open house that we will be hosting with LVDA and the city of Lamont to show the public where we're at in terms of the design of them. Thank you all for your time and we'll entertain any questions you have. I think the odds of our public places coming out of work. So I think that we had a really good meeting with them and their commissioners seemed very excited. It's not something that they could fund in its entirety, but they certainly felt they could, they haven't voted on it yet, but they haven't asked for it in there. Directors said, if she felt that they could do a third maybe a little bit more of the project, they felt that it was a really good opportunity. The thing I will say about parking structures is everyone tells you they want one until it's filled and they tell you how ugly it is and oh my gosh, why did you do this better than the other? And so I do think make sure that the commission that I'm ended the little time you added as opposed to a big concrete structure is super important. And they felt like this was a good idea. We did look, I will say we looked at all kinds of different options for screening. And so this is one that the architects really pushed for that option. And they're really good. I think it's interesting that the exam or you can go on the website is the Jim Hamlin here and what's on which is actually to be helpful. But I do think there would have to be. The one question that our public places would ask me is, so they're all their funding comes from 1% of any city construction project. And they come out with what type of money are they getting from this project? We're just, oh, we did not take that with us. So looking at it, one of the questions that asked is, if we would be willing to put some additional dollars for this piece. So looking at all point out, if you could put that rendering back up, it is definitely on Comfman. However, when you look at that garage, I think it's down for the art one. So I want to show that. Yeah, the main street side. So one more. Or no, what that is? We're going to order the one from Main Street. Oh, so when you look. You can just grab it. So the breezeway will go from Main Street all the way to Comfman. It'll go through the parking structure. And they have the panels on Comfman, but also there are three prominent panels on the alley side. So if you are looking at it from Main Street or going down the breezeway, those same art panels will be minutes on that side. So if it's near, you would see three panels. One there, one there where there's no panel, there's a pedestrian breezeway, and one on this side where there's no elevator on the Main Street side. So it's highly visible to those that are walking over from Main Street to Comfman. And if you did as much value engineering as humanly possible to try to get into the money that we had for the parking, and so the screening is not in that original question, it's out. Does that raise way to the stories? The breezeway is good. Well, it's like it there. I know it does look like it tall there, and it's dipping down and then backed up based on the simple design. So it's a story and a half. So it'll still feel open as opposed to being in a closed, all the time. Yeah, so we're actually working with a lot of consultants as well and looking at different ways to bring people into that space, but also to make sure it's an actively lit space at all hours as well. It's almost like this height, guys. I mean, where it is right now. What's the process you'll use to release the apartment? The parking or the apartment? The apartment. So those are affordable housing, so it's a mix of 30% air-conditioning, just 60%, that's roughly 30,000, up to 60,000 for a family of three. And so while we're trying housing, it already has interest lists, so we'll use an interest list that is for anybody who's interested. It might be somebody who's interested for their parent or somebody who's interested because they wanna follow construction progress and they don't love the project. It's an interest list for anybody. And then once we get probably about nine months before we're about to complete construction, we turn that interest list into more of a wait list and we go back out to folks and say, are you interested in applying for housing here? Then we sort of develop a separate wait list process and that brings our marketing team in to start holding more site meetings or local meetings with folks to give them more detail on exactly how you qualify, our pets allow, and get into the details of the marketing and the property management side. And I will add, well, we want to ensure that our marketing communications team is working with LEDA to make sure that all of those core responses are reaching the Longmont community as well. And if you're on the interest list, it's my understanding that it's really just that you're gonna be notified. You don't have any preference movement on the interest list for one day or nine months. Just who gets their applications in first place. And we help folks qualify, so if there's a senior that needs more help qualifying, we don't say, hurry up and get your application. Whoever's first is gonna be in line first. We really do work with folks and that there's not that stress to help them apply. And so we try not to make it a panic, but we do wanna work with people early in the process so that if they do have issues with income qualification and land work references and they want more time, then we work with folks on that. So already, Justin, I can recall when you first presented the design to the board, wasn't the greatest. I think the word I used was generic. I'm very impressed with the difference in the progress that we made. It's obvious that you listened to our concerns and through the community outreach, this definitely aligns with the master plan nicely. So I appreciate listening to us and our concerns and making some adjustments. So thank you very much for that. And it's just a great example of just an awesome partnership that's been developed through the LVA burden and the county to do something great for downtown. So thank you for all your hard work. Thank you. I'm excited. I think it also speaks to we had a number of community meetings where you go kind of go out to the community and present that are more a part of the planning approval process. That gives you one layer of input, but the type of involvement that you guys have taken the time out of your schedule really is paying off. I think it's just a much better project as a result in the partnership and the understanding of what it means to build and live in downtown. It's what you bring that you don't get from a regular planning approvals meeting. I think it's a awesome addition to have 3,000 for the entrepreneurial or the space cafe. We're working on an operator for that. If we build it, it will come. All right. I'm just kidding. We're still working on our budget. The total development cost is roughly 35 million for everything. And so for the residential side, we're financing that with low income housing tax credits, state tax credits and a lot of county funding as well as City of Oklahoma. So we go through the typical housing sources for the residential side. What's been hard though is financing the garage and if you don't have those housing sources, there's tax credits available. And so it really has been over eight million in the risk of a garage. And that really is funded by county LVGA burden and the low income housing tax credit partnership. So it's at LLC, which is a partnership of the Board of County Housing Authority, is paying its fair share of the parking stalls. But yeah, they're over $15,000 per space. And so when you think about funding a, just a surface parking lot versus a structured parking with security and the elevators and the fire suppression, it's definitely an investment. At the same time, it's something that feels like really is needed in downtown Longmont. And with everybody tipping in and paying their fair share, then that's been the way to make that work for this development. You're gonna like that, you need the parking. People live there, they don't fund your parking as they say it would come out. The people who are living there do find their share of parking spaces. You like it. Be in the light side, yeah. But that light sector investor and IRS rules are that you can't fund everybody else's, right? And so they can spend their share and then their portion of the common area, their portion of the fire suppression and the trash removal and the elevator and things like that. Did you say 15,000 in space? Higher. Higher. That's just like the parking space without all of the other structure. So, are there any other questions you guys have? We can revisit this at another meeting, but I just want kind of a little test on if you're interested in being a partner in those panels. If that's something that you would entertain for their conversation and figure out their dollar amounts on. That's what we should talk about as it's the right thing to touch on. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you very much. Terville, you're asking about that view from Main Street. This is a little small, but you can see the three panels that you would find coming over from Main Street and we are working with our architects to get our friends to read of what that would look like coming over. Thank you all. Oh yeah, I just want to, I'd ask Keith to give an update. He wasn't able to come, but he sent me all that properties and bird property. It's the truth of the property and we'll demolish building a 510,000 street as part of a new development project. Once the development agreement and other state documents related to the county's project are finalized, we intend to hire architects to explore options for redevelopment of the property of 500,000. Right now our direction is to investigate the capability of developing a new office building of 30 to 40,000 square feet. The new office building will still work on there. We'd utilize the allocation of 75 design parking spaces in this project. We'll turn it over to Ryan Bear to give us an update on this balcony station. And future videos. Hello. I'm Ryan Bear. What? Welcome. Thank you. It's been a pretty good morning. I've been sitting in the back listening. Yes, it's up. I'm Ryan Bear with Mass Equities. We've got a group of people here today. I want to introduce some folks. On cue here comes Sean Gatner. Most many of you may know him. He's a operator, restaurateur, extraordinaire. Is that good? No? I was saying that. We've got David Hoffman back there with Trace Virts. He's our architect on a portion of this of Southman Station that I'm gonna walk you through today. Trevor Owens from my office at Mass Equities, development manager, and I think that's it. So I think we have questions throughout or whatnot that we can call on different folks. But one, two, three things. How much time do I have? Two, three minutes. 30 minutes? Go to the left. So I'll do three things. The first two things should be relatively quick, but if you have questions informal, I'll kind of, I'll stop in between the three things and answer any questions that you might have. But what I want to accomplish is take you through an update of Southman Station right here, what I call phase one. And then talk to you about phase two, which is the yellow building you can see right there. And we'll talk about that. And then end it with the redevelopment of the greenery building, which you can see right over there. And that'll have more of a need to it because I want to walk you through where we're headed with that and talk a little bit about the economics of that, which dovetails nicely with what David presented this morning because you'll kind of see a test case that is right squarely aligned with what David said in terms of retail and office. So just to refresh on the different properties that we have, many of you have seen this over the years. They're starting to get developed, which is exciting. Phase one here with the red star is the main project that we've been talking about for years and it's taking shape now and we're just about done with it. I'll walk you through a little bit of that. Then we'll go to phase two, which is called the future phase. And then we'll talk about the greenery. I'll revisit this slide too. Technically, phase one was wibby. A lot of people don't know that. So this is just some photos, which obviously you can see it, walk outside. But we've made really good progress with what I call phase one south main station. It's four buildings, 253 units. You guys have all seen it come out of the ground. And we are in Lisa. So two of the buildings have been completed. Two more remain. And they'll be released in the next 45 to 60 days. In that case, you're posted and you can see it outside. I'm very happy with the way it turned out. We're getting excellent feedback from the community. And everybody's pretty excited about putting the construction off Main Street and turning this thing into a real, two city blocks, a real neighborhood. If you haven't stopped by to see the inside, I would encourage it. It's really cool. Taking a lot of concepts from projects in Denver, the Highlands, some of these areas. It's very different than what you normally see in one month. More similar to a Roosevelt Park type thing. And then we took it sort of to a different space with more of an industrial field to kind of give it a nod back to Butterball. There will be another building that we're just getting started on, which will be building five. Does this thing have a... I'm sorry. So, rather than try to walk around it, building five will sit right here on Henry Street. So it'll face that yellow building that you see there. Here's a rendering of it. It's approved. It was approved as part of our site plan. And that building will start, we believe we'll start that building probably late third quarter of this year. So that'll be another 61 units which will round out that whole block at 314 units. It'll be about an eight month build like that. So it'll probably be released in the summer of 21. So that's what I call the 150 main block, five buildings, 314 units and 10,000 feet of commercial. Quick update on leasing. We started leasing basically January 1st when we released that first building. We're about 8% leased right now. What's interesting is 60% of our activity has been in that 25 to 33 range, which is a pretty interesting fact. We'll see. I know you guys, it changed a lot as you went through your lease up. We don't have a full set yet. It's only two months of leasing, less than two months of leasing, but it's an interesting fact. And if you haven't seen the inside of the units, that's a picture of one of them. They're very cool, very modern looking inside. On the retail side, we're just getting off Main Street. So that's a good thing. The class is all in and we're starting to see it take shape. I signed one lease with a bank in building one. So we're about 23% of the space leased. Got a lot of activity on the space, different pieces. This is kind of how we program it. The north piece of building two, where the plaza is, that we will hold out for a restaurant. It's been built out. It's been a corn shell for a restaurant. And then we have some other smaller spaces along the way that we've broken up. And the interest is ranging from food and beverage to fitness, to coffee, all kinds of stuff like that. So as we finish and get off Main Street, that stuff will start to. Any questions on that? Quick question. Very obviously, one of my roles is on the retail committee here, which is actually strictly retail. We definitely do, which is now, that's kind of one of my minds. Anyway, there's just a lot of downtown merchants who would love to get their hands on these residents in terms of business. Is there a way, via the LBDA, maybe we can put something together to give to you residents, or to get in touch with these folks via your leasing people? Yeah, great question. We're already doing that. Sean has been active and maybe said a few things. I know you did like a wooden nickel saying or something. Well, I just, as soon as I just, with our downtown, he's here at the ground, seeing the leasing manager start to move around, I just went past it and I just gave something to every person. So we've got these little like $5 broker chips, one for each restaurant, different colors, and one of those. And so basically they get 15 bucks to come, check out downtown restaurants within the listener. But it was, and that took about five minutes of effort and I had to make a couple more chips. What's with your roster? Well, I think they're really open to that, but I think they've got a lot going on. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Well, it's reached out to them, it's super simple. They just might not track down the retailers for it. Yeah, so a great start management is our manager and they've done a lot of outreach to different businesses. We did a special beer at Wibby and a glass. I don't know if they've come to talk to you about it, but I know they're getting around to all the retailers to try to put together different things. Let me know if there's a more organized way for us to outreach, yeah. Let me know when we're happy to get going because people sit down and go through a leasing packet and one of the first questions they ask is, no, if they're not from around here, what are my eating options? They want to know all that stuff, so. I think at 25, is that where you can get them, so. They're a match, they're a match for me, I'll give you that. Yeah, no, I mean all great ideas and we're gonna have, we're gonna have 400 plus people living there in phase one. You saw the numbers, 1700 downtown, 400 are coming, that's just phase one, which is a good segue to phase two, which is the red star on four acres. That's the site that you can't see because the railroad car is there now, but the yellow building. That's gonna happen in two phases and I wanted to take you through that real quick. Phase one is gonna be adapted for use of the existing yellow warehouse. So, we're gonna be making some changes to it, but you're gonna see that thing totally transformed. I'll show you what a picture looks like of where it's headed. That'll be phase one, that's happening now. We did our pre-app, we're moving quickly. We want to start construction on that by the end of the year. It's gonna be 15,000 feet of what I would call, makerspace term is overused. It's sort of a service, retail, creative workspace and suite stuff. You can rent suites all the way down to 1500 square feet. And we already have one tenant that we're working with on the front, which will be a really cool company that provides, it's in a service category. And once we, I can't announce it right now, but that's a big chunk of that building. It's gonna be very cool when we still got 11,000 square feet left. So, that's gonna be cool. I'll show you what that looks like. And then to the North coming later is 150 to 160 units. These will be apartments, kind of smaller, more urban style, with a lower price point for the renter. And that'll be for story, I'll show you what that looks like. That will probably start in design until this summer. I don't want to get the warehouse going first. But here's the concept of what it's gonna look like. So this is the existing warehouse here and that's the rendering of where we're headed with it. So it's using the current bones and just putting window package in, making it look very urban and industrial. And we're already getting some really good feedback on that because it's an adaptive reuse, we can keep the price point down and create very consistent with your whole plan and the city's plan of energizing this area of daytime. The apartments, that's where they're headed. Again, a different look than South Main Station, but an urban look. Take advantage of some of the southern facing with the lower warehouse. We have views down to Boulder and the Mount Range and all of that. So, this is all starting to come together. With this particular project as it stands right now, we think we can get this done without any assistance from the city or the LDDA. There's one environmental issue that we still are trying to get our heads around, but if we rehab the warehouse, we don't think it's gonna be an issue. So there's some underground tanks we have to remove and some stuff from Butterball, but we've got a pretty good idea of what that looks like. So we think this project goes forward pretty quickly. Any questions on that one? Did we have townhounds? Yeah, originally we had townhounds here. So that replaces it. Yeah, we couldn't get the density that we wanted, so we went to a forefront model. And these will be smaller with the lower price point. Okay, and final category, moving on to the greenery. So a lot of you have seen that building. It's been there for a very long time and nothing's happened with it, but it is a really cool building. So we've done a lot of analysis on it of how can we keep this building and turn it into something that's iconic downtown that, in my vision, is really a regional draw. So we've come up with a couple of different ideas for it and the one that's really getting traction is you take that building and convert it. Keep it, we'll show you some pictures of the direction we're headed, but the ground floor, it's about 8,000 square foot floor plates on that building. So it's about 25-ish thousand feet if you build out the whole thing. We're looking at doing a food hall on the ground floor. Which would be 8,500 square feet. That's why Sean's here. Sean and I have been talking for a while about how we do this because we've got real estate. He's an incredible restaurant operator. Food halls are different than restaurants, but a lot of the same skills, about the same strategies. And so he and I have been talking about what if we could do this? And it's gonna require some help and a public-private partnership to get it done because the building is cool, but in rough shape and needs a lot of work. But we're committed to try to make this thing go because I think not only is the real estate exceptional and will be iconic, but the experience will be incredible as well. So I wanted David to talk a little bit about one of the design directions where we're headed. We haven't quite landed on what it's gonna look like, but there's an interesting, I call this the archeological option. And I'll let David explain why I say it that way. But we're looking at a number of different ways to do this building because cost is a major issue, as you guys will see. It's less expensive than building new, but it's still expensive. So David is the lead architect on the project with me and I thought it'd be good for him to tell you a little bit about his company and then just give you thoughts of where this particular strategy is going. This is one of a couple we're looking at. Yes, hi guys, my name's David. Architect at Tradesports Workshop at Denver. We do a lot of different projects, but our friend, Butter, is a really huge recommendation style project. We've got Justin Rhino alone, we've got Westfield Tech Quarters on Brighton, we've got Walton, 2660 Larimer, Visual Winters at Tech Quarters. All of those are in the same pentages as this building, same construction styles. And we've reclaimed all of this project. We're actually working on it through the hall right now. We've done a ton of rest room on it. So this is the idea, like the main concept of this building is from right and then we left. As Brian mentioned, this is very early on in our sort of design process. We've just gotten into this for a couple weeks. So this could still go on a lot of different directions, but what we're looking at right now is one of the first things we noticed about the building is there's all these concrete headers scattered across the building. And when you first notice them, they're able to be very haphazardly laid out. They're just sort of like landing in these weird places and don't line up, the headers don't match. And you kind of wonder why they're in that place because it doesn't really have any rhyme or reason to it. But when you start thinking about the building and what it's been over the course of this life, I think this is a gorgeous building, but it was never really meant to be that. It was meant to be functional and utilitarian. When someone spends the time and money to put a hole in it, they're doing it for a specific reason, whether that's a piece of mechanical equipment that needs a bench in a certain location or a shoe bench that needs to hit the building and for justice rights fund. So it has this kind of disorganized look to it, but there's actually like a really deep rationality and intentionality with every one of these openings. So our first thought was, one, let's take all those openings and reclaim them, right, because that's, it's free day. Like the header is the most expensive part of it, you know, the ones you're gonna see in the wall. And we've already got them. So let's capitalize on that way off the batch. And then it also brings out like the original kind of character of this building, this, these things and changes that were made over the life of this building. But then we're gonna start using that logic to inform how we punch openings in this thing as well. So, you know, and, you know, again, like this is super early, this would be a lot of direction, but if you look at the silo, you've got like these kind of weird like, and maybe like a service level doesn't make a ton of sense. But then each of these levels is gonna be part of the office and you're gonna be conference rooms in here. You know, I want to walk into a conference room and have a straight line of sight to long-speak. To do that, you have to have a window in very specific location. And you might have that on the third floor, but on the second floor, you might not see a long-speak. You might be looking at something else. So those don't necessarily have to wind up. But it's keeping that same idea of a very intentional logic behind each of these openings. So to kind of bring that full circle back to what's just already in that building. When we get to sort of a final design here and we're definitely not there yet, because that's gonna take weeks of pretty rigorous study sort of what's going on here. But I'd like to be able to point to sort of every window in this building and be able to tell you like, why it's there, why it has to be there and why it couldn't really be anywhere else. But that's kind of what we're not. It's interesting. I mean, for those of you who are interested, you go stand there on the corner and you see these windows that you never saw before. It's really cool. This also creates a really interesting light show at night. So again, one direction, but to show you the options that we're considering, you may have seen a direction a few months back that I showed you, which had more of a erected steel bolted onto the building, stuff like that. So we're getting into it now, but it's going full, full speed of where do we want to go with this design and how do we want to do it. Many see large outdoor plaza and food trucks and stuff like that. And so this is something, again, we're talking with Sean about, about how do we program this? How much space do we need out there? How's it all going to work? Because again, we want this to be a destination for not only people in Longmont, but over County. When you look at the site, it has some more land that we could do future projects on. And so really, this piece of it is really this parking lot here and just this area is right there. That gives you a small lot here and a small lot up top, which we think would be great for housing. So like floor sale town homes, smaller format urban 20 foot wide, three story stuff. But there's some of that downtown, but not a lot of it. And so this could create more diverse housing stock. But right now the focus is on the greenery and the office. If you start to go up, look at the floor plates. So the far left is what the ground floor would look like. And again, working with Sean on what is the food hall? How does it flow? How does it work? What's the back of the house? Where's all that kind of stuff? So we're going through those exercises right now, but it's a very open floor plate. If you've been in these food halls that are successful, they're open, they spill out to the outside. And it's a place where you could go three nights a week and have a different meal every night. It's also set up for events. And I know that's a thing that downtown is very focused on. I mean, this is 8500 square feet on this ground level where you could rent out the front part, do an event, the back part, kind of like what we're doing here. So this could be really cool in terms of the event space. As you go up to the upper floors, we're laying this out so that they're just big open floor plates. So you could either take 8,000 feet as 110 or we can slice this thing off in 1500 square foot spaces. And so part of Dave and his team's genius of the common areas, we're actually, we call this the power pack where we're gonna bolt on a new part of the building. This is built out of block. And that'll have the elevators, the stairs and the restroom banks. And then that allows us just to be super flexible with space. So to Dave's presentation, I think what was the average tenant size if you recall? Oh my God. Yeah, what was the average tenant size? Office? Come on. Why don't we talk in like 2,500 to 3,000 feet? Yeah, something like that. So we can slice that off and offer that kind of space. I don't see this as a creative workspace, like a we work kind of thing. I don't see that. I see it as a creative space with suites where you can come and rent your own 2,000 square foot office. And then we've got shared restrooms, which again brings down costs to build out and create a more affordable commercial space. So the total is about 25,000 feet on the building. Today, the building is about 12,000 feet. We would be putting these floors in. Right now the building is only three stories at the front and the back is wide open. So we're gonna be running floors on the second, third floor to create more space. I thought I would, before I get into some of the cost numbers and where we are, I thought I'd put some, what I think are important numbers in front of you in terms of tax increment. You know, right now this building generates $15,000 a year of tax, that's it. Once we do this plan and move this thing forward, we're projecting out to 2033, both $2 million in total taxes that we backed off the existing base. We're looking at about a million, eight, almost a million, nine of the property taxes just for this building alone. It doesn't include anything that's gonna happen around us or any of the other projects that I showed you. Sean and I put together a projection on sales tax. Again, the building's generating nothing right now. That's a big number over that same period of time. We're estimating good sales numbers per square foot on this, close to $500 a square foot. This generates another almost $2.8 million of sales tax. So all in, this building just on its own for the city, and I know the LVDA doesn't participate in sales tax, but for the city and the community, it's gonna generate a large amount of tax over the next 14 years. Again, just for this building. And this is a projection, it's not scientific. We have to go back, we're all back, but this is where we see the numbers. I wanna share some costs with you because this is really the crux of the discussion today and it's, I think, appropriate on the heels of what David presented. In order to make this building go forward, we've got a gap, but let me run you through the map of where we sit today. So we're looking at about $314 a square foot or 7.6 million to completely rehab this building and tenant it up. So that includes cost of the building, cost of construction to rehab it, tenant improvements and leasing costs, financing costs, architectural fees, everything all in, it's about 7.6 million. So as David was talking earlier, to build a new building, you're probably in the $450 a square foot range, maybe higher with land. So you can still see how rehabs are less expensive than new build. And so this could be one of the ways to get there and start to create some space downtown in five minutes, okay. Some of the assumptions we see here. We're using a $19 triple net rental rate, which is a blended rate between retail and office. I think that's where you were presenting. So we think we're being reasonable on that rate. Which again, keeps costs lower for the tenants versus the $30 number that you were throwing out for new retail. With that, we generate about 438,000 of income off the building. If we divide that by our cost of the construction, we're at less than a 6% return, which is not doable, not financeable in this market. So I created a gap analysis and I said, okay, well what is financeable? What gets this thing moving forward? If we can get to a 6.5% return, which is lower than a normal developer return, but this is an opportunity zone. So that helps us, we can raise money a lot easier in an opportunity zone because people will invest for a longer term return, take their gains and put them in for longer term returns. So we think we can get it done at that level. Interest rates are pretty low right now, so we'll get a little bit of a lift there in terms of the actual return to the investors. But we need to be no less than six and a half. So to get there, we've got a gap of about $876,000. How do we fill that gap? There's a lot of different ways to do it, one of which is doing a public-private partnership as you know. So this will be for our next discussion, but I wanted to put this out there because in order to get this thing moving forward and get it done, we've got to figure out how to get there. And it's gonna be a combination in my mind of you folks in the LBDA, what can we do together? We can put together some funds. It's an enterprise zone and this is a vacant building, so there's some dollars there that we can access. Believe it or not, those silos over there have 100-year-old rain in them that need to be cleaned up. So we think, and that's $100,000 just to clean up the grain. But we think there's some ground fuel to clean up the credits that we can get there or grants. City permit and fee waivers, so the city's gonna have to participate also. This is part of our original development agreement, so there's already some stuff in place with the city that will help that. There's also a Colorado Fresh Food Program because this is a low-income area. It's kind of a retail food desert. There's a program there that Jessica is telling me about from the LAC that we can access will be some dollars there. And then just other sources. We're constantly looking for other ways to bring capital to the party here. And so we think, having gone through all these categories, talked with Kimberly, talked with Jessica, talked with others, Sean, we think we can get there. But it's gonna take some work, but we're encouraged. And so because of what this represents, we think for downtown as an iconic gathering place, community place, and a regional, I think a regional draw is worth pushing forward on this. And so I'll be working with Kimberly on a specific ask from the LVDA of what we need and the size that we think gets us there and how we do that. So I'm very encouraged that we can get this done. Here's a quick timeline, and I know I gotta wrap up. We have a concept plan that we just saw. We've got others that are already down the road, which is good. We had our pre-op meeting two weeks ago with the city. So waiting on comments, which lets us start the process for formalizing a submittal and getting that in. We need to finalize the sources of the GAP funds. I'll just show you that list of how we get there. Finalize the city and LVDA agreement. I'm hoping we can do that in the next couple of months to keep moving this forward. CDs and permit set, we do late spring. And then our goal is to start construction and fall. And sooner if we can, we want to deliver the building next year, and if this goes forward or we put the food, we want to get the food hall open by the summer, right John? Kind of important. So that's our general timeline. And it's very aggressive, but it's doable. And we want to push forward with 10 questions. I have a kind of broad question. So we think about Rosebell for the North and South Bank. How does that shift the center of gravity? In terms of residential, commercial, both? Or does that flow sort of where people go, right now, sixth and main kind of center of gravity? I don't see it as a shift of gravity. I look at it as bookends. And that's always going to be up North what it is and how things grow. And it's a different type of a neighborhood, in my opinion, and it's more established. You've got a lot more single family homes. This side is what you're seeing here. It's going to be more of a rehab industrial feel. Probably won't be as dense block to block. Certain areas will be dense and then there'll be fall off. So I think it's really a different area. And until the transit station, wherever that becomes, really goes forward, then I think then it becomes a true bar belt into the bar belt. Hey, that's how we put that as well. We don't see that as a big, major shift on either end. But we look at it as well. But just seeing the numbers from there, and I was a little bit surprised. I didn't realize there was only 1,700 people downtown in that area. I mean, this project. You're allowed to add much. Yeah, I mean, this project belongs to the 500 people. So, and then hopefully other developers start more projects, you know, I know you see stuff that play out here and around here. So, I mean, there's potential in the next three to five years of double the residency. What do you mean by double the residency? For the, yeah, I haven't priced the apartments, but I will tell you this. These are averaging 850 square feet. Those will be an average of 700 or less. So probably about the same per foot number, but it'll bring that cost down just because they're smaller units. So, and the way we're looking at it and that's a great question because the 110 every project, 150 plus units is not gonna have a lot of amenities in the project. So we're hearing the food hall, this building over here, we're viewing, this is the amenity base. So, someone can move in, have a lower price point and they have a neighbor move amenities and walk into downtown. So that's why this food hall, I think the whole grainery building is critical to the multiple blocks here that get developed because it becomes a community amenity. But yes, I know we're out of time. Any more questions? So e-mails, if you have any questions, I think you all have my contact information and we'll meet up with them. Thank you. It was a good show, good time going. Yeah, thank you. We're gonna have a hand lunch. So thank you for inviting me. I think primarily what I'll talk about is if you have so much to point out, this is where we work most closely with LTDA on some of the initiatives of that. That's our updated economic development strategic plan which thank you for supporting this for those of you who are actively engaged in some of our working groups. Thank you for that as well. The working groups for a bit, so much 2.0 are really around four focus areas for our community and the future of our local economy including talent, industry, connectivity, and place. So we have convene working groups in all of those focus areas and have a number of strategic initiatives now, a work plan really for 2024, all of those, well, most of those focus areas. So we look at talent. Talent is our goal, relative to talent is to attract new needed talent to our community. So one of the things we're doing, Don Juan E.P., is investing significant resources in a national marketing campaign to identify target markets across the country that are developing the type of talent that our employers, our leader here in Longmont and doing outreach and trying to track that talent to our community. As well as developing a pipeline of talent right here locally in partnership with St. Green Valley School District and Fort Ranch Community College as well as University of Colorado and our other regional universities. So not having to, as is Colorado's history, depend so heavily on new talent moving in but on developing that pipeline of talent that's needed by the industries that exist here, locally through our school system, K-12 and higher education. Industry is really our traditional economic development tool box of attracting, retaining, growing our primary industry base here. Our advanced 2.0 strategy identifies for target industry clusters which existed in the original strategy. The updated strategy just refines those a little bit more to have access to a lot more and a lot more granular data to help us understand those industries that have high potential for growth here. And so those are, I don't think we're being surprised to anyone manufacturing in particular, what we're calling smart manufacturing which is high tech industry 4.0, next generation manufacturing as well as food and beverage. The addition of smuggers has doubled our food and beverage industry from an employment perspective but we do also have a strong base with our breweries and our facilities that are manufacturing and distributing outside of the region. Business catalysts are really our B2B service providers. So everything from our marketing firms to creative firms to software development, specialized systems development for our industry base that exists here. And then the last one is knowledge creation and deployment which is really research and development as an industry. And we are actually surprised to find the number of private research and development labs that exist right here in Longmont employing a significant number of people at very, very high wages. So that's one of our focus areas as well and how do we connect that with the rest of the world and continue to grow that industry. Similar to what we're doing with talent we're looking to tell a long long story on a more national level, being very strategic about identifying other markets across the country that have concentrations of those industries where we think we have a competitive thinker, we know. We have a competitive advantage either operating costs, access to talent, some kind of logistics advantage over those markets that we can attract those companies to either grow it to or relocate it to Longmont. So again, a national marketing effort to put Longmont on the map specific to those industries but being very targeted about the markets that we'll focus on putting that campaign into. And we're also working with Kimberly, the city of Longmont on updating our incentives our primary industry incentives that haven't been updated in, I don't know how, as long as I've been here, at least, and so we're a bit, yeah, old school in their approach to how we're incentivizing primary industry companies to invest in our community. In particular, Kimberly's part of that conversation as we look at how we can attract primary employers into downtown to create that big time population that's gonna help them help with generation of sales and parts of them. 18, okay. Now I'm gonna sit in the chair. So I'm still out there sitting right now, but I'm sorry. How are you? I love you a while. I love you too. It's not like me, I'm sweet. Yeah, it's all right, yeah. Internal to our community, so how are we getting from one end of the city to the other and everywhere in between? And then regional connectivity, which we know has been a challenge and will continue to be a challenge with what's happening with RTD and state and regional funding for transportation. So we're gonna be very closely with the city, with Joni and with Philip Rewald on how we address some of those issues. And then we also are looking at national connectivity, so are there future investments that can be made in Vance Grand Airport to improve national connectivity, especially for our primary industry base and those that are either flying over jets or leveraging the regional airport for logistics purposes. And that's probably a longer term. Then the others, although the RTD one might be. That's a term, then the rest. And then finally, place, which is really the place making component of economic development. So how are we creating an environment here in Long Moab that's conducive to attracting talent, the needed talent to our community as well as retaining our existing talent. So as kids are graduating high school, going down to college, they're coming back through because there's appeal for them to do so, as well as attractive for industry to make those investments and job creating projects for our community. So that's things like, it's a lot of focus on downtown, so Kimberly's very involved in that working group as is more, should I believe. And really looking at how we can create appealing urban centers in downtown, around downtown. One of the strategic initiatives there is looking at the development of a maker block. Somewhere in this area. I'm not as involved in it. Okay. So yeah, so you'll hear more about that from Kimberly. So really creating places in Long Moab in downtown and outside of downtown that are appealing for people and for investment from industries. Other than that, we continue to have a lot of activity from a primary industry interest in Long Moab. So both from our existing businesses, looking at continuing to grow here as well as new companies continuing to be interested in either relocating or expanding into Long Moab. I'm not as involved. Oh. I'm just kidding. And one thing that's been interesting is simply the announcement of Alexis's acquisition of the former Amgenage, former Astros of the town facility. And we're starting to see a lot, a lot more interest from 5Science and in particular other gene-based companies to take advantage of creating a concentration, creating that cluster here in Long Moab. And starting to understand the affordability, fiber, utility benefits being located in Long Moab versus Boulders and for other parts of the region that might have been more appealing in the past. You just didn't know who we were and Alexis has put us on a national stage for that kind of attention in that industry. We're also continuing to focus a lot. I think the more than we have historically as an economic development organization on entrepreneurial development, we started a startup platform incubator program called Innovate Monlont. Just over a year ago, about a year and a half ago now, but she spun that out into its own 501c3. We have seven companies that we're working with in the Innovate Accelerator program right now with an additional three, I believe, that are gonna be added here. So we're working with 10 very advanced high technology innovative entrepreneurial companies right here in Long Moab as part of that program. And we are hearing up now for Long Moab startup week, which we are sixth year of Long Moab startup week at the end of July this year. Questions? There'll be data on folks that have utilized the enterprise zone. Not off the top of my head, but it's been significant, especially with the expansion of the enterprise zone this year, so the enterprise zone is a state for those who don't know it is a state program that designates certain geographic areas in the state that if you invest in those areas, create jobs in those areas, you can earn significant tax credits, state and Colorado income tax credits for conducting those activities in that area. We were able to expand, so we were, a portion of downtown was in the enterprise zone before, and we've expanded with the exception of a couple of pockets of groups with this tax. We actually have enterprise zone destination all the way up Main Street from basically first to Highway 66 now on both sides of Main Street and expanding beyond to the east and the west a little bit. We also expanded out to River Park, where sticker giants and some other companies are located, so they were excited about that. So with the addition of, so a significant majority of our commercial and industrial properties are now located within the enterprise zone, so we saw a significant uptick in usage just based on the number of companies that have accessed that program this year. I would be happy though if you remind me to give you the actual numbers, or I can share them with you. And we can even look at specific downtown. So what was the name of the bioscience company you mentioned? The VSS, okay, June 30th. Thank you. Yeah, now we are going to get some updates on the first in Maine and the 200 block area. And so we're going to turn it over to Luke Barney, and Luke owns, co-owns a property right behind Long Island Lakers at the corner of Seconds, and really kind of the alley when it comes to the community. So can I just give you an idea of some of the projects that are happening in this area? Thank you guys for having me. I just said Luke Barney, owner and tenant at 6-Eleven. We have an exciting new project that I'd like to give you guys an update on. I'm going to give you a little review on the project to tell you a little bit more about what we do as the business that operates there currently, a little bit about the business that we're bringing in, and then some of the issues that we've run into as we've waited through this project. Prior to the overview, we want to revitalize and modernize the space at 6-Eleven. We're going to bring in a coffee shop into the front space, which is going to be the catalyst for the project, but in doing so, we're going to update the exterior of the building. We're going to modernize the inside, so that's going to include fire protections, the sprinkler system throughout, as well as becoming compliant with current code. This is a very old building, so that has been a big project to take on. But as far as the coffee shop space goes, it's going to be roughly 2,000 square feet. It's the space facing second avenue. There's going to be some outdoor seating. The coffee shop is going to feature a roaster inside. It's going to be in a glass wall-bottom partition, so it's going to create a cool artisan craftsman vibe in there. So you can see the coffee from start to finish. We'll walk through some renderings here. This is going to be from the front entrance. The coffee shop can feature a custom woodwork from our shop throughout. We're training a craftsman, artisan, field, looking at the coffee bar from the seating area here. And this is looking into that roasting room, so there's going to be seating that's going to showcase the roast street and highlight what traction coffee does. This is some of the inspiration. We'll give you guys a feel for the space that we're trying to create. It's going to be a hub for people coming across from South Maine. It's probably going to be a center for community events, and you'll just kind of find the community that we're so part of together in this space. A little background about what we do. We build custom camber vans. We work with clients all over the nation. We build 32 to 40 vans a year depending on project size. We currently employ 12 people in our shop and we work with people. I think we've worked with roughly 20 different states across the nation. So people will bring us their empty cargo shell to a van. We work with them to bring their vision to life. For example, Climb Custom Woodwork is all of this exterior components and things like that. This is a taste of what we do on the inside. All of our work is completely custom and we work with our clients to bring their visions to life. A little background on traction coffee. We were introduced to them through a network of the outdoor community. These guys are non-bikers, coffee enthusiasts, and entrepreneurs. This quote that I took from their website really speaks to who they are. Attraction really takes the traction and authenticity. We promise always operate as an extension of ourselves and never follow trends. We are excited to roast up to any coffee and share them with you. You guys have a really great vision to what they want to bring in. They've all worked in the coffee industry for a combination of almost 50 years. And they're currently operating as a roaster and they want to have this as a flagship location to be able to bend their coffee and extend their brand to more people in the area. Some of the things that we've run into, we've been working on this project for a little over a year now. We've had our pre-application meeting. Thought we were all on the same page and we've kind of gone back and forth numerous times at this point. It's a really old building that we're working with. So figuring out how to bring things up to code and do things correctly has been challenging. After endless back and forth, it seems like the only way forward is to go ahead and add sprinklers to the building. We talked about different fire separation, issues that the fire department was going to be on board with, or solution not issues. And it turned out that really sprinkling the building is going to be the most versatile solution for this and forward and allow us to continue the project at all. Part of the issue with that is the water line is on the north side of second right now. So we're going to have to dig second and bring that water line over to our building and close down second for some amount of time. So this is adding some significant expense and time to our project. And so what we are asking, we're working with Kimberly sensibly and we're finally ready to go on this project. Since we're going to add sprinklers all of the necessary parties are signing off saying, okay, let's go, let's do it. It is throwing a wrench in our application process because this is a new piece of the puzzle. And so kind of the two things that we are asking and looking for partnership on is we'd like to raise the funding cap on the facade grant to help us include infrastructure that we have to bring in to supply that fire sprinkler system as well as figuring out a way that we can be a little bit flexible on how we submit that application process. As we would like to begin work on this as soon as possible and we're reaching out to the business all the necessary parties, but it's possible that we can start bringing fire protection into the building before we have final quotes on all the coffee shop related work. And so it sounds like that's where that might be a little bit untritional to do a project in that way. But that's what we're looking to from the city of Omaha and if anyone has any questions, concerns, comments? If I see any other questions on this project for the final talk about this, just now. So what's our, what, this is one of the, by the way, the local government sort of thing. As you know, access, marketing, those are concerns for us down in the woods. So what's our process and how are you going to address that piece? So from the traffic studies that we've done and talking to planning and facing on exactly who gives a thumbs up on that, it seems to all work out. We do have some on-site marketing as well as the access to on-street parking in this area is going to be sufficient or more than sufficient for this kind of project. Yeah. Where do you need to have the van renovation work? Do you need it to be going? Yeah, so right now we occupy the back six or roughly 5,000 feet of the building and so the van production will still continue in that space. Right now, the space is essentially vacant that the coffee shop is going into. So our business is, the van business will continue to run and function as it does today and this is going to be in addition to that. Where do you live on? I grew up in Steveboat originally. I went to the CU Boulder. Was it near the Bronx? Oh, the van. Oh, the van business. We started in Monmont. We were kind of doing it out of our small wood shop and then we moved to this location just over two years ago and that's what has allowed us to grow into what we are today. Yeah. Will components of the coffee roasting business be upstairs in the rest of the building? So the upstairs is going to be off the space. We are going to occupy some of that for operations of the van business and then potentially it would be off the space available for rent or other businesses to come in there but that upstairs will just be off the space for now at least. So are you operating out of that space? Yeah. The van operation is happening today. The coffee shop is not started yet. I was wondering if it was an auction. It was an auction. Okay, so now we're going to do the bumper cars one? Yeah, and the third piece that I didn't talk about in there, we have another business that operates out of this space as well. They built ice bumper cars. So kind of an offshoot of what goes on here but we've been to municipalities and ice rinks all across the country and it's a really cool way to bring in new demographics to traditionally just ice skating venues. Yeah. Are you putting a odor? Yeah, so there's all sorts of ventilation requirements for that roaster and that's a part of the project. Is the parking place like where it has been once to buy your van and go not like me? Yeah. You know, once you open the van, like we thought. Oh, yeah, that's what everyone said. Yeah, we'll talk. Yeah. I'm sorry. Is your parking your dedicated home to the West? Correct. So you can't really see it here but right along here we have an easement on the lot next to us. Oh, okay. Yeah, long-term planning by that city hopefully and be able to use that whole lot. But right now that easement, thanks for talking to me. How many cents is this? This is a match. Where does the kitchen is? It's right next to us. Yeah, it's right next to us. Where is it? It's right next to us. Yeah, it's right next to us. That's the right, and then there's the vacant lot. And then the cheese place, right? Yeah, that's what we got. Oh, cheese. Oh, cheese. That's not a thing, you're going down the property. To the West. The West of Princeton building on second, I'm sorry, going towards prop and on second avenue. It's the same old analogy in San Diego, it would be straight and well. Correct. Yeah. So Kimberly, what's this process like you're going to raise the cap because it's not something that's just clear to you? Yes. So, well first of all I will say these guys have been wonderful to work with and they're endurance and they're really one. And when we talk about backing talent and we talk about our creative industries and we talk about art and the manufacturer and everything they're doing is exactly what I believe we've been saying for a really long time. This building, although it's a zero-perfect view as you were talking about thousands of times. So you go by and you're thinking, what the heck is going on there? The upstairs, it was that old carriage house and the upstairs still is very cool and it's awesome wood beams. I mean, it's a very cool, funky space that's been underutilized for years. I think that the money that they're bringing, the people that they're bringing and everything has been amazing through their other people's adding on. So in our facade improvement grant, we always have had that you can lift the cap. It's part of our different grant for restaurant-type businesses, which is which follows. And so I think we talked about, this is A, a retail conversion because it was not retail, I'm not a retail generating. And that's a side grant. And so I think some of the questions and they'll be a formal ask in March, but they just wanted to get again maybe a small head nod that we would be willing to lift the cap for some of those water line issues. We've done this for several other people that had just full water lines down and we didn't smoke the gauge and the rain and that sort of thing. And I think as far as phasing, so the facade, there's obviously a huge facade renovation that'll be happening at the doors, windows, re-facing it, that type of thing. So I think the question is, once we get all this big consideration of the water lines, they can get that started and then we're going to visit that facade application for the actual facade elements in a few months down the road, along with that retail conversion. But when we have some time to kick it off track, wanted to see if you'd be willing and dollar up now would be willing to raise that cap for the water line of this project and we can bring that back to you. And that's one that we're matching. Yes. And that was one that we kind of allocated into each time. Is your question yes? Yes. Okay. You're not awesome. Fine, this is cool. All right. Any other questions? What's the square footed second floor? Square footed second floor is roughly 3,000 square feet. Okay. Did you ever consider a multi-family? That is such a loaded question. We would love to keep it residential. It was being used as residential space before we moved in in many layers of this project. It turns out that this building has been pieced together a lot without any permitting over the years. So we've received a couple harsh no's on any feasibility on being able to keep any residential. And that was kind of where the sprinkler decision started was that we could keep this as a residential as a possibility. And there's just some reason that's really not in the cards for what other people of the city would like to see there. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you guys so much for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. We'll be in touch. Awesome. Okay. Bye. This one will be real quick. Okay. We're working with RT. That's my thing. Yeah. Nothing's the same. No. No. It's real bad. We're about to get to RT again. So not much of an update from last year on the first and main project. Last year. Yeah. Leave that part out. Or maybe two years ago. Maybe just a few weeks ago I talked. We actually have been in discussions. So where we're at right now, the RT needs to still prepare their infrastructure master plan before they'll release any of the monies for any improvements, any acquisitions, and even to even talk to any of the property owners about potential acquisitions. They won't move forward until this IMP is completed. So we have actually been in discussions with them over the last several months to try and get this thing moving forward. We believe we have success. Myself and Phil are actually due to go to RT offices on Friday at which time we are to hammer out the final details. Their scope of work. And just what you know, part of the challenge we have had is their scope of work originally was looking at a massive area. They were looking from South track partway all the way to the other side of Main Street and everything from the river down to like 2nd Avenue. And so what we bring them in and said, no, our focus is particularly the Coffman border because one of the central elements of this effort is to get Coffman extended all the way down to Boston. So with that, they finally act we asked and now we kind of rain them in. That being said, we have a schedule. They hope to complete a draft of the IMP by sometime end of July this year. And then we'd have to go through some review, possible improvements, and then take it to the respective elected officials to get the IMP approved. So we're thinking somewhere late summer, early fall, hopefully we'll actually have a document by which we can then proceed with our design issues and potential acquisitions. As it stands right now, our TV is saying they are going to initiate the acquisitions, but through this process, it's possible that the city could end up playing a role in some degree as to the acquisitions themselves here. So we'll keep you in tune, but at least it's looking more favorable to get this thing moving finally. We'll let you know though, there is one larger issue relative to actually putting the improvements in place. And that is the massive flood plain we have down that particular area there. And so that could inhibit our ability to move forward with vertical construction of any parking facility and any associated development with that particular facility. There's good probability that we would at least be able to start the roadway improvements and infrastructure in the area because they can actually lie within the flood plain and not cause a problem from a regulatory standpoint. So any questions, be glad to answer them if you have any. Thank you. Awesome. You said it this year, right? So a couple of these things, is there is anything that we want Tony to keep in mind or anything that we want to add to the conversation while before we approve it? So, I mean, you know, RTD, we joke about it and everything, but we say don't hand it their act together. At what point does this whole thing stop out? What's the plan B? Well, there really is no plan B because effectively they control the dollar, the purse. And so they should, they choose to hold back. I think there's a lot of enough political pressure on them right now in their inability to deliver the train in a timely manner that I really think they're gonna be working, trying to work with us collectively to get this thing moving forward. The other thing we need to remember too is that at least there's a new leadership on board, at least in an interim capacity for the next multiple 18 months or so, somewhere in that range. And so I think we have a new set of years if we run into issues and go forward and talk about it in the future. So again, we believe the staff we're working with, they finally come around to the city's thoughts on how we need to proceed and that we'll be able to move forward for it. What's the timeline again that this area is projected to come out of what plan? Okay, so there's two pieces of that. One is the actual physical removal from the flood plain. Right now, the city is awaiting a memorandum of understanding from the Corps of Engineers that will allow them to finish a segment that will include the ponds up out there to the west. With that subject to that getting underway here relatively soon from a design standpoint, construction I think was looked into the early part of next year and then completion was looking somewhere in the end of 2022, first part of 2023. With that improvement, physically it will be out of the flood plain. The challenge that we have thereafter is the regulatory side of the equation because then you have to submit plans to FEMA to get them to remap the flood plain and that can take anywhere from a year to a year and a half to get their approvals. So that will push it into 2024 that from a technical standpoint, you aren't supposed, it doesn't prevent you from building in the flood plain but it still would present challenges in building in the flood plain. So effectively, you can build in the flood plain as long as you don't erase the elevation as long as you don't displace the flooding on to adjacent properties. Wow, that's almost an impossibility. So that's something we'll have to do in New York. One of the questions that I have for the board is would you like kind of a greater flood plain impact of timing presentation in the next couple months? Because we could ask me, Monica, because some of it does affect the DDA, it definitely affects the scheme corridor. So I feel like maybe having a greater understanding as a group of that would be beneficial but I don't know if you're asked. Yeah, hopefully. Yeah, hopefully within the next couple months we'll actually have that memorandum in hand that we can move forward with the board. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Some of the work around advanced one on 2.0 that we're doing, particularly around this area. So we are both on the place committee and one of the things that we were talking about is being at a major block. So again, I know at our last retreat we did kind of envisioning in this first and main area around if you could put something on a particle, what would you do? I think some of that we're hearing. Many of you said food hall, many of you said some destinations like things which I think will be happening in the greater area, right? So I think it's great to have some of that mirrored. But there's still lots of underutilized potential in this area. And when Brian kind of announced he wanted to do these smaller maker pieces and he's been talking with us independently, Colin is taking the lead on looking at and at least investigating what a common consumption zone would look like in that area. So in the state of Colorado, we have a certain amount of liquor license holders that form an association. You can kind of have an open kind of liquor law area at certain times. So they're looking at some of those different things. And so our group was really talking about how we generate that destination. There's places where people want to go and they want to be. And then that trickles off on what would be that kind of destination. So looking at and building off the charrette, Erin was great to incorporate the first charrette with the 200 blocks in the main street corridor plan. Many people have changed things on that block since we have new owners, we have new ideas, we have things that are really kind of built out in that first conversation. So it's time to reconvene and talk about what that's going to look like, how that can be an anchor site. It kind of gets their ideas on this. And then looking at that public realm and that sense of place, what are the needs and what is not going to be met by each individual property owner that we can kind of help meet as we look. When we talk about this maker block area, this is the area that we sort of define. And Erin and I and Tony and Erin are also working on that opportunity zone perspective. So we're able to break down the opportunity zone into different areas. And we look at this area, it's basically third down the first. We go sides of first, a little bit right across Maine and then over to Collier. And again, build on that momentum of the idea of the slope and what does that look like in terms of the fall. But these are kind of the questions that we wanted to ask in this period. Yeah, and so I hope what you see is part of the reason that we're talking about this is because as Joni just mentioned before she left, there is so much coming together. You know, we've talked about what's happening just outside of this area at first in Maine. We've talked about council's priority with the building steam area, which is essentially just south of this and even encompasses this. We've talked a little bit about some of the recommendations from the Main Street plan and it certainly is, as we mentioned, the catalyst area for downtown. There's some really exciting transportation opportunities. And as I mentioned, I have a map of the Main Street plan and the Enhance Mountains Corridor plan that you guys might remember from a couple of years ago. Really identified some good improvements, especially for bicyclists and people walking in this area. And so we're really interested. This work is just starting and we wanna make sure that we're honoring what you guys have already talked about and thinking about new ideas. So as we move forward with this, thinking about what else should we be considering that maybe we haven't talked about? What are some other areas of excitement? Obviously, as Kimberly mentioned, we heard what you said at the retreat. I think it was last year. And surprise, some of that stuff is moving forward. So that's great. So what other ideas do you have in thinking about those ideas or even some of what we've talked about today? Where would you put your priorities? Obviously, we can't do everything all at once. So what are the most important things to focus on as we're working with obviously the city, DDA staff, other partners, but also the community and the property owners? And then what specifically do you think as a board you would support in terms of those priorities? What can we think about? So we'll try to open it up. Obviously, we've got questions. We're happy to try to answer those, although this is still pretty fluid. We're just starting out and there's other members of the place group that'll be working with us as well, but we're really interested in having you help us shape this effort. Please don't all speak at once. I really want this to be a productive conversation. From my perspective, I'm just really proud of all the activity that's happening in South Maine. So we've had so many amazing things happening. So I think it comes down to continuing to push forward the public-private partnership conversation, which Kimberly has done a fantastic with. It's like just having a conversation with everyone, all business owners, property owners in this area, because that's what it's going to take. And that's where it's all being started. That's where my next-door neighbor started. It's having that conversation. And we need a lot to enter in for this. So that's at the top of my list. You know, what I'm thinking from a board perspective, what role can I play to have those conversations, too? Because right now, it's largely Kimberly having those conversations. But if you're really powerful with my sort of planning role and with some of those conversations, it's likely to help out with that. So I guess another specific question that I would throw out is, as we are, and as you are having those conversations, and we think back to some of what we heard from David this morning, we know that there are already some plans. Brian talked about this plan. Luke just talked about his plans. What other uses and types of things, either from a land use perspective or from a transportation perspective or public realm perspective or other things you think are really important for us to consider as we continue to think about what this area evolves into. Because I agree, it's super exciting. There's a lot of great stuff happening. What else would you like to see? As we continue to grow density, it's going to be after John's comment earlier about just being focused on pedestrians. It's going to be a challenge. Traffic, parking, people, and so it's going to be something we've never dealt with in the South Main, so it's already possible to walk across a street which is in the train. It's sitting there and then traffic backs up the second avenue. I can literally lock my front door and take a 30 minute and a half. I don't have so much. Whenever I hear the train coming by, I'm like, okay, what can I do productive for 30 minutes? We go over on the treadmill. I mean, it's the walkability, what's that look like with all these added people? So what does a really walkable urban environment look like to you all? What are the things that we need to consider? And obviously these are things we think about a lot, but just thinking about places that you've been and thinking about what that you would like to see this area evolve to, what should we be considering? Because we are having these conversations about how to get into a walkable. Well, this is from first half to second half. It seems like a mile. And so if I'm trying to get across the street, I'm stuck in the middle of that log. I'm not going to make it across the street. And so I think how John just eloquently stated that earlier today is like, we see a lot of things across the street that we want to participate in but the access is a challenge. So really thinking about those crossings. For sure. I mean, I think it feels pointed across the, the ability to cross if the median comes up, but maybe it's something like further on up where there's at least a mid-block opportunity. That section is also, if I'm picturing it correctly, pretty much what if any sort of landscaping whatsoever, I mean, almost completely. And so this is all my burden, right? I'm sitting on the edge of the library. All of a sudden you, when you look at those things, you realize why it's not comfortable to walk. The curved paths, which aren't so bad on the east side, west side, have a few extra, but then there's no, there are any trees, there's no bushes, there's, and so all of a sudden it's a very stark linty compared to what you guys, when everybody works your way up, it's harder to make kind of a rich landscape north of third, roughly. So a lot of it is a kind of field. You can't continue down the aisle. So you, mainstream, at least on the east side, you can't continue down the aisle. You wouldn't want to if you could, you know? So, mainstream has to be really inviting. This may be moving way too much earth to even get there, but, you know, if you get down to the St. Brendan Bridge, you've got these vistas that are really shaping up to look pretty good, and inviting way to get down there and onto the greenways, and some sort of an essence that that nice area is, is climbing the on the main street somehow, would be wonderful, and I think it would encourage the greening of that, of that desert between the first and the second. So maybe thinking about not only the physical connections, but wayfinding and making sure that that awareness is there? Yeah, not to mention finding the train overpass. That just would be a thing, okay? We've got to have a sign that says other paths that way. So this is the, the writing of 200 block, I think really think harder, how we use our dollars to create the development of ourselves. I mean, cross-mots, for example, most people would walk to it and have a really big hurdle to get over, and I think about the properties of the 200 block. A big chunk of it really needs to be used all the time, and so how do we, how do we assist with that? And are there specific uses you think are, I mean, obviously David presented a lot of information today. When you think about that 200 block, are there uses that you feel like those incentive dollars would be best spent for, or contrary, other uses that maybe others want to focus on, in terms of the capital? Well, I think, you know, and this is where the private partnerships get came into conflict, you know, and we give you ways to provide the workers to develop and improve themselves, but I'm just saying, it does, it is engaging the property owners, like what would it take for you to put some of your money into this, and so Brian, here's the gap, and here's how far we can get, and there's the gap. And I think on a case-on-a-case basis, what would that make sense for you? So are those questions that, as we're out doing outreach to property owners, it would be helpful for you to have that kind of information that's gonna take what you're gonna do? I'm especially the ones next to the surface lot. Yeah, but there's, there's just a few buildings on that block around here that are really useful ones. Yeah, there's some of it, and they're mighty environmental. On the west side? On the right side, yeah. That question and the answer was no, but. Anything else you want us to know? We'll keep you posted on the subject. So I'm just curious, as you all are working on it, what are the challenges that you're lucked out against or what are the biggest obstacles? You know, I think getting the right property owners that are interested or that are present, we have a few on that block that are not in town that feel like the money they're getting off of it is just okay. Some of it is looking at a pretty insurmountable gap of what they want to do. And I think a lot of it is just uncertainty of the market, but I think once Brian's project is stabilized and leased out, we're gonna start clean. I've seen some buying decisions already because of that, but they're buying and holding in kind of ways that it's not their environment. So I think some of that, I do think that, I think it's 2022 or 23 that the alternative sentencing capability is supposed to be done and then that will move the app right now to use a contract of ministry. It is still a significant barrier as people wanting to invest in that space. So I do think, and the ability of acquiring that or figuring out who can acquire that and make that, that's a big chunk in that block that you have to walk by. That's right in the middle. Yeah, yeah, and it's just even so aesthetically I'm placing, I mean even your part wasn't there, it's just a kind of bummer of a space of that block. Is there parking behind that building? Yeah, no, it's right up there. And I think like Joni mentioned, it's a matter of, yeah. Another challenge is, we have a vision. You guys have a lot of great information in your master plan. We have more stuff in the main street corridor plan. Even from a transportation standpoint we have kind of a vision. I don't know that our code necessarily reflects that exactly, and I also don't know that our city standards. In some ways we have a little bit of a mismatch between maybe kind of more suburban green field standards and what I think is really a more walkable place and I think we're making great strides. But I think that maybe our vision's a little further ahead which it should be, right? So we'll need to continue to work through that. I think council's fully supportive of all the work they're doing on the scene. So just kind of making sure that all of these pieces continue to fit together will be important. And I think just the biggest thing is from First Avenue, given that something in the position project on, you want to preserve it I think the walkability and the places you want to visit. So the restaurants, the retail, those sorts of things on that front facing, you know? And so the people will move from First, all the way on up and back down once all of that's redeveloped. And then when we talk about making more manufacturing and stuff, you know, we try to preserve that and work that out for a long time. Is there ever going to want to walk past? Is Bryant property on the west side of the Hunter Block for sale? Yes. Have you randomly entered? Is for sale-ish. Yes. Are we voting? No. We won't be voting. Can we die for it? Well, it's got the power lines. Yeah. Well, you know, as part of that countless project in the Main Street corridor, there was some layouts of what could happen. I do think if there is an investment made in that, looking at a part of a partnership where we help with maybe some of the public-grown green space, and that type of thing, because of how you can and can. To your point about the landscaping and everything, it is a way to do that. Our district is overwhelmingly not green at all. We have great trees, and that's just great. Even small gathering, park-like places don't have that. So that was an opportunity, I think, there. That was something we heard a lot in the Main Street corridor plan, not only in the downtown area, but throughout the corridor. And so because of the physical constraints of those power lines, it seems like a potentially a natural opportunity to do something besides a building, which you can't do. So there were some options with parking. There were some options with green space. And so obviously, whomever purchases that or whomever develops that can take a look at that. And the cemetery is essentially in the Main Street green space. Yeah. I'd be remiss if I did remind you that you will have a report out. So you have these names you should pay from front of you. So if you happen to get that, you might want to. And also, we had talked about those different character areas within the downtown areas, or those different zones. And I think the conversation that we're having around the Maker Block is really going to hopefully end up being a reflection of what does this feel like? How does it differ from the historic core? Again, I think of not for industrial groups keeping that authenticity of our town. I think we're going through our master plans. One of the things that really stuck with me throughout that steering committee is there's lots of points of time in history. And sometimes we feel like historic preservation is really only what was built during a certain time period. But in our industrial groups, there are different time periods in that kind of thing. And so this downtown, I think, is going to be a super great question of. And this is a good opportunity to tell us if we're wrong about this down here. Yeah. OK, I am going to quickly go through the findings of the first part of the feasibility study. I've made it very short, so you can just kind of be on a high level. In phase one, I would argue kind of with what Nancy said. The financial feasibility of a facility comes in phase two. So anything feasible if you have unlimited money. But the truth about the financial feasibility is all in phase two. In phase one, they really did an inventory of what is in the region. And is there a gap of certain kind of facilities in the region that if there was something feasible here, what would that space thing look like? So they did look at relevant art venues within 35 miles of Lombard. You kind of see the range of seats where they, most of them, are kind of in that 250 to 1,000-seat range. And so they really looked at what that sweet spot would be for an art center. And it would come. And that's a performing art center. If it's an art center, they'd be performing arts. 1,000 to 1,500 seats. They feel like that would be a moderate development cost and operating cost, which is adequately sized for our market. Thinks that it could be possibly booked at the time. And they also kind of looked at it like this. They looked at the community demand, lo-fi, which is a group of performing arts organizations. And the hotel story is a little bit not as great. It is not a full-service hotel right now. So full-service hotel. Now we have tons and tons of limited service, which is everything that we have here. And so not able without a private partnership or something, able to support a full-service hotel. But still looking at that, they definitely said that it could grow into that. And so they're looking at land space, making sure you land available for who's now to be added. If this moves forward, it'll just happen at the same time. I came from a tourism board and we ran a conference center without a hotel. It's pretty hard. I will say it's always a barrier. People don't want to drive from other places, like part of the waterfall or something like that. So again, they did say co-located arts and event center. What that would look like, they are thinking right now a multi-purpose theater. So about 1,000 to 1,500 square feet, or I'm sorry, seats. And looking at building that, so if you do have a 600 person performance, you can, you know, nothing sadder than going to a, you know, 200-foot venue with a 25-feet hold, right? It just doesn't feel good. So they can kind of close different parts of it off. Looking at lighting, orchestra kit, that type of thing. Having a multi-purpose room or a black box theater. So this would mimic the stage area of a performing arts center. So if you had rehearsals and you also couldn't book the main hall, you still couldn't. And we should have a new facility, be built. Where's location? Oh, how many acres of me? Yeah, acres are bigger a little bit today. Let's just ask the question backwards. To be built up. We're talking about- Is it a space water? Yeah, we're talking about stuff here between me and going in that way so far. So. They're actually saying primarily most of the land there by the way. I'm just digging up the land space in the center to build some kind of a water. That's okay. We'll be in an ownership of it. Through that survey process in 2018 at the council retreat before we even floated this proposal. So we know that that land is available. There's discussion, especially from the arts community, about whether the land is appropriate because- I will come around. Oh, wow. You share a common stack. Be able to fill that, bring in some different talk about smuggler information among those funding partners to ensure everyone- The EBA may play a certain piece. If there's a business partnership organization, what we feel and what's partnership is that blue bubble. They are doing advocacy in a unified voice, community education, after which in the smaller partnership model, which is their membership organization, underneath that they have a business improvement. I'll always go with their fund. That really helps. At a foundation board, the partnership could convene once a quarter kind of not only is there a common staff, but there are common board members up on that partnership level that are again, holding accountable of what piece for the part. So making sure that updated bylaws are saying that these are musts and that you're trying to be on these boards and these boards and have the children laughing is very important. So they're going through that. One of the things that they're doing in St. Charles in Illinois is they have combined the St. Charles Alliance, which combined the visitors organization and the downtown organization, both are marketing a sense of place, both are using tax dollars. So by combining those, we eliminated overhead, although the visitors association still markets the entire place. There's synergy within the core of them. So a lot of it has overwritten a lot of good ways to do that. Whether the downtown Bozeman, they have a membership organization underneath there that have a business improvement district and also their urban renewal, which is a different way to get a tip. When you have an urban renewal, as you know, we overlap a little bit with an urban renewal at the southern end of our district within that urban renewal. Does go within the entire state of the border. So that would be an early good tip within that border. And so we've talked to me a lot about, although the tips may come from the urban renewal, how does the district management from the TVA carry down there? So once they get their tips out, they're like, this is management. So different ways to work with that. And downtown Grand Rapids, so they have a management entity that manages their TVA, they have improvement district, much like our general improvement district, that's a tip district. And then they have what they call five citizens of the line fits. And so these are lines that begin it. It's a way of broadening that conversation and they get more stakeholders within your area feeling like they're making your real influence. So they're looking at river development, they look at downtown neighborhoods, they look at mobility, they look at economic opportunities and they look at inclusivity. And so some of this I think we started with actually the residential committee, so we do have a committee that's looking at downtown residential on either side, but possibly ways to grow. And then in a system like that, there would be someone from each one of the citizens of the line fits that come on that partnership board again, holding those people with the conversation. So I have this and I'm gonna try to pull it up on the screen, but we wanted to have each of you break into two groups or I think we'll just touch your table and ask to talk about what a partnership model would look like. And so really just kind of a list of pros and cons of what you think information or what other kind of questions would you want answered during that time? Here's an example of a kind of a greater partnership organization. I did realize that Summer 501 C6 and Summer 501 C4. So C6 is kind of business association and C4 is a civic organization or neighborhood organization and found both ways. And they manage different things, BDAs, business improvement districts, general improvement districts, other special taxing districts, looking at foundations or nonprofits for charitable donation, looking at part of the parking districts if it grows into that. So I just want to show some of this different models to fit together. Do you guys feel like you're pretty solid? Pretty solid. We're not. Like concrete. So I think what we're gonna do is have each group kind of report out, talk about pros and cons, what we're gonna talk about is a group. We're not being asked to make a decision. The board is not being asked to make a decision today. This is really, what do you think the pros and cons are? Where do you feel like you need more information in order to potentially provide some additional direction? So if there's things that you're not sure of or that you want DDA staff to collect more information on that, we're really the time to do that. Kimberly will take notes. I'm gonna get up on camera, potentially. I know, I know, it's these like, they're very wide cameras, yes, and it's been exposed to that. Ah, so, do you want to go first? And talk about pros and cons, what are you guys talking about? So. So. So. Definitely, economies of scale is a pro in sort of being able to broaden the available resources while you need expensive work in line. And synergy across various organizations, even including other city organizations and stuff like that, I think working together on, for example, on 2.0 has been huge for various organizations in town, or at least on, to begin with, kind of coming together and so you further that with this model. We have the number of voices as both pro and the con. So it's great to have other voices at the table and get all those different areas of input, all of them are stakeholders, other people flowing in the same direction. The same time we've made it to Rod, a lot of voices can also cause a lot of outside water, no, no, it's. We think that some organizations like this probably have grown deep or nimble. Given the structure of the DBA currently, it's probably, you know, it's tied directly to the city, which is informal, but also does place limitations on what? I do that in half a year, I do that in half a year. Anyway, more resources are pro and then just overall visibility was something that Jen brought up. You know, if you go to expand, you get accused of the origin of the organization being women in scope and to downtown focused, you know, if you go north and you go south, just like that individual said, you have to tell where you start and where you stop and that's restricted by the way we're set up, but at the same time that perception and other people on the outside, well, you did this for them, and you do this for me and those sorts of things. So you become a greater community, saying you're focusing too much on downtown? Or say the organization comes to encompass more than downtown, but it doesn't have the same tools as downtown? Is that right, Sarah? Yeah. Limitations on the ballerines, since you did so big, it gives you the loop, your funding, do you delete your passion? You know, it's easy to be passionate about downtown, it's sort of geographic scope. Is it harder to be passionate about a word or there it is, I don't know, that could be a con? And then we had questions regarding, John pointed out, you do have a really great leader to have these three, you know, multiple organizations coordinating and stuff like that. You know people like that, but you really have to change the leadership role. Communication would be huge and how would that all happen? And then that I think would expand possibly your property from local versus remote ownership. How do you get membership from remote owners property? So those three things are really things you'd like to see, how do other entities and models Yeah. So you'd really like to see where that's working well if there's examples of that, what are they doing to do that? Okay. Are you speaking faster? Yeah, yeah. First, our purpose of community engagement, diverse groups. And I'd like to read you, but speed it up. Very real material. And state culture, so okay, would be involved with it. Another one of the pros and cons about, some of this religious repeats what they've already talked about pretty much, a combined resource, so that includes both money and knowledge and anything like that, be shared with them. And then another thing to be shared in workload, okay, and space. So you look as long as friends and people are together that they will be reduced in a lot of different ways, overlap, things like that when they have it. Some of our negatives is you see a confusing role. Who's really responsible for what? Sometimes we'll come up. I also brought up a positive reason for pointing it. The important, when you bring those together, and you are supposed to do that, that's not my responsibility, that's not really not that way, definitely. People tend to do it when you bring them together. Then they're worried about the organizational structure. How do that work? I think that once again, it's looking at the leadership of the groups where you're going to be in charge of this, because even though you have three groups together, someone still needs to be in charge, or four groups together, who's actually eventually going to be responsible for the whole group, okay? Then there was something that should never conflict an interest. How do you set that aside? As more people come to the table, typically you start to see conflict of interest being involved in this situation here. And then capital resources. How is that shared? And that's typically the need to conflict of interest. We bring the X amount of dollars to the table, how much are they bringing to the table, and who's going to be responsible for this grand. And then an interesting expression sometimes, less is more, okay? So are we really creating that better group by combining it to one group? Are we creating more? That more people are involved with it? How does everything work? We did like some additional information, and that is a deeper dive to some of that subject matter here as well. Maybe more information that looks at a different level of it. And then we're making a possible tour, seeing the actual house of lay of the land, if we could work. One thing we have here, way back years, we keep seeing in here like four cops is an example, our Lewisville, but I don't think we'd actually go on and look at it, to see and compare the district or the area. So I think today when we talk about walking around, I've been up to four columns, I've been down in Lewisville, but I haven't been in Colorado all spring. The comparison, a lot of the comparison we have, tennis especially when we get consultants outside of this area, is all over the US. So it sounds like maybe in conjunction with expanding on some of the resources Kim really talked about and doing that deeper dive, maybe picking a few to go take a little gatter or have someone come in and talk about it. Well, we get especially coming in and talk about, to least mercy and knowledge and give an opportunity to ask questions. Are you impossible to really get is a mission we're given to take a tour to, take pictures of real life. But really today, an example today, is the Carlton Street space corridor. Okay, last August, I went back to where I'm from, won't be stopped pointing, they haven't done that. Okay, and one of the things I learned in the time was there that very same street that everything's there, the community around it are complaining. Because accidents are coming, they're getting collectibles, because of the buses and how everything's designed, the sidelines change all of a sudden. So we used to drive and everyone's used to driving and they're also gonna get to a different spot that's entirely different. And so, that's something that we can look at too. I'd like to say something nice about minimalness, which is that as a stance, I think LDPA is about the most minimal commission we've got in terms of getting things done, turning on a deadline, this is very effective. Just, so I don't want you to risk that because you are doing a great job. So it sounds like you, yeah, that's a good job guys. It sounds like you'd like to see potentially how could that be maintained in a type of commission. Yeah, don't let it go. It is, because then you need more people to really have the decision to take some longer because you have more voices at all. So it sounds like maybe some more information, I think he's kind of talked about it, but kind of on that leadership structure I heard about from both groups. And then maybe a little bit about how does decision making work and like some examples of that and getting to the nimbleness. Anything else with this topic? Additional information you want, Kimberly and her staff together? Things that Susan from Colorado Springs is happy to either host a spirit tour or come up, have a Q and A, whether it be virtually. So I also talked with Matt. They don't utilize a formal partnership model. They fund their business organization and do that type of thing. However, we are, they invite you guys to come up as a board if you want to go for a tour. Number one, Phil and I thought there were some transportation similarities that we could look at while we're there. However, he makes me Denver who can do a transportation tour. But Jim sent me a very thoughtful and very kind of, I've got more buying and stopping your tax overview. Really, I mean our TIF will run out in 12 to 13 years and it feels like a long time when it's really not. And Grand Junction and Fort Collins, there's will stop first about a year. So I did ask Matt if he's thinking about next steps. So you all know our TIF was set to aspire to 30 years. DDA's went to this day for 20 years when we got there. His board is also happy. People are a remarkable band from Ross Monster. Yeah, I love that idea. Well, I'm... It's summertime again. Yes. And we all got to do the incline afterwards. Ready? Ready to set go. It's Master Sheet. And whoever has a priority, she'll kind of put a dot next to it. We're hoping that there may be some overlap if there's not enough conversation. But we'll just go through and does anyone want to start? Who gets to go first? Top three. Hopefully not more than three or four priorities. Thank you. Good job, Jim. All right, I guess we may overlap with the person that I have. This is literally a family beyond an old accountant proper. And when I say that, I've talked about being disability about a long time. So this is a new... This is something new, not in the current plan. Right. At least I didn't see it as far as that is doing. I know this sounds crazy, but... This is really internally for the Long Park area, for example. The number of individuals that are in the downtown area now that have lived here forever, they have no knowledge of anything that's happening in this area because if anyone asks, they give you the feedback. Well, I had no reason to come to downtown. So how do we touch what's here? Because we've got 100,000 people. Okay, so visibility, raising awareness internally and externally. What's your third one? If you have one. I do have a third one. Okay. She was so enjoying it. It's the same thing. What do you mean about parking? Because we have it. Do you want more of it, less of it, different type of messaging? Messaging so that individuals that are coming to the area understand what's available. As an example, people want to be close to coming again. If there's not something in that lot that's directly there, it's like people will circle until someone free's up. Not knowing that if you went a lot in another direction, there's ample parking available. So are you talking about enhanced wayfinding for parking? Yes, there has to be something. Because people, I mean, you can sit and watch it. And I go, wait, if you just go, no, I don't want to go over there. Well, it's the same distance. No, I'm not interested in that. So how do we communicate that there? Okay. So what I'm going to do is take some leverage. I'm going to put up here. Our first program is coordinate marketing and info. And so the visibility piece. And then down is include marketing for art, culture, and events. So that's what we've come as marketing. So I'm going to put that on there. And then the wayfinding piece, and I specifically put parking. You have a question? No, no, I'd like to go next. Okay. So I think that the immediate need, it's like Jim said, is the wayfinding. And so that will connect everyone to the down pound. You're talking about more general wayfinding, not just related to parking? Not just related to parking, but general. But also to what Mark had mentioned about getting down to where the trails are now by the river. I think that that's critical to get people down in that area, at least to know that it's there and that it's accessible. And then I think long term is the partnership with public private partnerships to develop, you know, with specific needs in the downtown. I think that that's a long term. And then I would say that my third is, I mean the visible signals and then the improved needs then the infrastructure that kind of goes hand in hand. So I guess I only have two out of three. So when you talk about public private partnerships, I think you put a dot on that. But are you looking at, is there a specific thing? So the focus has been now, you know, between first and second block area. And I think that if you want people to have a place to walk, you have to redevelop that corridor so that that's a place to walk to. So I think it's critical to come up with incentives to redevelop that area on Main Street. So that's really focusing those public private partnerships in that geographic area. 200 block area. 200, yes. Absolutely. Great. I'll build some of it. So I'm going to leave here more information about what I got here. There's a lot of great stuff happening. And I agree with the way you find it in the parking. I have a message in these fears. A lot of parking in the pipeline. We need a little bit of patience to get there. But, you know, we'll come soon. So I would accelerate something on the 200 block in terms of incentive for redevelopment. And also, we're really excited to make it from first to ninth per place of people enjoy walking. Because, you know, my question is, when South Queens is populated, are people going to walk north or are they going to get their cars and go south once you get your cars and you go any direction? So it really needs to be, not just for those things to be safe but a place that people want to walk. You can steal that from the hill. That's a little bit. So those are close to medium. And then I think the other thing that I mentioned was noting, as we continue to elevate the quality of downtown, those that aren't keeping pace are more noticeable. And so people who aren't maintaining or investing in the property, there's somebody in the games around because as others really raise the bar, it's frustrating and disappointing when others don't. So, to capture that, I did put, and I'll put another dot by the private public partnership 200 block. I added just head of entities between 1st and 9th on May. There's a lot of time to do it, but I added that specifically. And then the beginning when you talked about the messaging over parking, are you talking about wayfinding or are you talking about just... Well, there may be for the next 18 months there needs to be more signage and more wayfinding. We've got a coughing project with parking coming online. Another couple years after that parking coming online. It's out of caution. So... So part of the coordinated marketing, well, is this parking message. Yeah, but it's in the pipeline. Yeah. It's actually in the pipeline. So that might be something when we do get to this conversation about how do we develop that consistent coordinated message? That might be something you want to file away as being an important component of that. Yeah. So there's a lot of similarities to what John just shared and Joe's will go next. I think... I learned today that 40% of our business owners have been in business 10 plus years. Like, that's insane. Yeah. Yeah. I can venture to say South Summit portion is going to be even greater than 40%. It's a lot of those businesses I think we engage with. So participate in public-private conversations and redevelopment ideas to enhance our goals is one. Can I ask you a clarifying question? I think what we heard from these folks is that it's that targeted geographic area. Are you... Yes. But I also have some tactics that kind of go across the entire downtown. I think one of the ideas is maybe like this is an awesome conversation we're having. I think we can increase our influence to have this conversation beyond just this world once a year. And so Kimberley does fantastic with having these conversations with business owners that I think if we were to invite different blocks to board meetings it's just an idea to have a similar structured conversation with them. That's just why I get to grow our influence beyond the once a year retreat conversation with these discussions. But I think we need to engage more stakeholders bringing in the conversation. And then within that looking at incentives to determine what's appropriate to lift the max on we saw for example what's appropriate today so anything. So yeah, having flexibility with incentives John mentioned that for those capitalistic projects. We've developed a strategy to enhance pedestrian walkability. I learned that in the first 15 minutes of today John being focused on pedestrian, what is their experience in our downtown. So many people added to our downtown in the next 6 months so we pay attention to that and listen to them and being so focused on cars and being more focused on pedestrian. Sure, can I ask you a follow up question I know that you have within the master plan some specific targets around Kauffman and specific intersections. I think what I heard John say is really that focus on Main Street itself do you have thoughts on that or is this just a more general focus on pedestrian to moving people in the entire district. Yeah, my focus is on Main Street but definitely during the Kauffman project we've been meeting that area and then I have this super old building so I'm going to kind of say character blend with new I think that's going to be really critical as we move forward is respecting the character and celebrating the character and blending that appropriately with new because I'm going to have new my building is new right next to me so it's just that blend and storytelling that. Does that look like there's design standard on here somewhere? Does that look like that or are you just saying kind of can I chime in on that so that's one of my work and so that will help me out beatness, beatness and down that area with consistency and that drives in which is on the design guideline period. So I'm on here so develop that kind of guideline so we could do two things we could try to make them absolute and ask council to adopt them and we absolutely have to do this or we could have a set of design standards that say as you're asking from partnerships and that sort of thing we'll have to make these or have a good reason why you can't and then things are finding out with that and I'm just at this point to connect back to the private partner private partner partnerships for development I think one of the challenges with some of the properties in this area that we're talking about is the buildings really have past their useful life and so they can't get a plan so they're not even able to bring much themselves to the table because the bankers are just not there to do it so it's sort of helping those people whose properties are well cared for in this Well that's all we're going to do I don't know we'll also look at the situation we've got a nice loft so we've got a building we have this wonderful landing on the ground a little bit and we haven't ended that we do parking lot and add some other features to it for me it sort of started to be this morning and then as we went on through the day we had the proposal from Ross Monster I think in the first year and a half I was on this board I don't think we lifted the cap once and I think we lifted the cap four times this year on the cost for various projects and I think we really I think this kind of goes in under number one in the diversity of downtown and where we put where we put our grants and I think we also need to look ahead I think we're going to get into the most challenging part of this redevelopment I think and I think the grant request in some of these areas is larger than we expected or as it develops something really great is going to hit just more and more expensive there are going to be some really big things I think we really need to rethink the way we handle that kind of try to forecast what's happening there as well as the whole public private partnership I'm not sure after today our grant money sort of categories are all in the right spot so we need to review all of that as part of the public partnership I think we need a first and third kind of master plan from what we can effect I realize you're still kind of on individual property owners and they can do what they want to do but I think everybody's interested in that area and it's a catalyst type area we need sort of the master plan more specific to that and then I kind of I'm inspired by by growing the employment base and so I think all of these kind of four together the right office isn't here what we can do to get the right office here but that's probably going to take some money so they're just all kind of bonded together so I put a dot next to moderate office space because I think that's what they do I did I've heard look at it several times so I do think that's all in with private public partnerships so I put that in and looked at how it was like and then for your first and third master plan do you feel like just from the very high level we talked about what we're doing with that meeting on the lock would you take that area? Do you feel like we could transition from a back-end game into a master plan? I think so yeah I mean it's more detailed than that right and head down down there what are the opportunities in that whole block you've identified more of a block of land as opposed to the block right and maybe you and I can kind of brainstorm on how we get both of this out in that conference? Yeah I think it could be part of a bigger area it seems like so much art discussion is around that particular area so I just want to check in on time we're at the end but want to hear from you two? yeah I would be heard yeah what I would like to see over the next year if not even sooner you just want to hear our signage and I would like to see increased lighting but I would also like to see unique lighting we aren't going to have no matter what we do there is a dividing line at first because you go down to yellow and I know in the last ten or so of us walk up that hill which is something that maybe has a bore and we talk about the different tour we should make into our okay area and see how realistic is it to walk up again and one who agrees to get this great different kind of lighting any kind of lighting that would change one area from another or switch that would also help with signage because just look to the blue lights look to the red lights of the yellow lights in the company and it's right there green convenience and also wall mobility because that's something we do have we used to have a walk around we didn't want to wall simply to go and I went to an arm place you walk back and you go to your car and leave and the other thing we've been talking about I really would love to get to install these cameras to create more of a sense of security in the whole area that also comes with a homeless issue and we need cameras out and we put signs behind it so people will realize it's not a right to do something I did have some observation the general category of messaging a larger public perception of my experience in talking to people who aren't part is that many many of them are fighting the last war assuming that can reach mostly a negative influence so one is this messaging about the way things get done now so for example a lot of these ideas are built around public partnerships so public are really leaders and they don't really understand that economically in today's climate stuff gets done and it's a good thing it's not a bad thing nobody's trying to put one over on you nobody's trying to risk on you it's just how you do this and so the benefits of that model need to be messaged to the community and the other perception thing about downtown in particular has to do with congestion less when there were fewer people coming in and out they wish it was like that before and so the things on here that improve the flow of human beings and vehicles through downtown are all really important because they'll change that means that I prioritize in my head the confidence improvements and the river core connections because those are both going to take people to more peaceful places and yeah and they'll love downtown better so that's basically my ideas get people with the program because you guys are with the program you know everybody's got great ideas that are going to make positive impacts and we need everybody behind the idea and they don't understand it so I think that's an interesting point in addition to focusing on the public private partnerships themselves thinking about how do we help explain those and message those in a way that maybe people outside of this room in the development community to understand and then I also think your point about moving people I mean it sort of is similar to what President John mentioned just with a slight twist we're still focused on moving people but you're really focused on moving them maybe in a different core where you're just focusing on main street well I think we have some really clear winners here I think public private partnerships specifically around the 200 block and I would mention kind of the pedestrian walkability of main street that main street walkability of car movement, triple over keeping an eye on main street where other people pick up and we still live under their walking on main street and then lots of down here to do the parking message and the future parking message on David and I will send you a link to and then lastly I think I would time now it's almost a cloud it's a little huge baby bird now he slides up the door