 Welcome, Enola. I'm Mark Schlauves, the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea program. Today, we're going to go across the sea of dreams to talk with Kelsey Jandak. Kelsey, who goes by her initials, KJ has focused her personal and professional likes on helping others. KJ has founded and or participated in several ventures aimed at inspiring other people, especially minorities and those who do not have access to entrepreneurial advice so that they can maximize their potential. KJ has also sought to maximize her own potential and went back to law school to become a lawyer and intends to use those legal skills to assist dreamers, become doers, and bring positive change to the world. Aloha, KJ. Welcome. Good to see you. How are you? Good to see you, Mr. Schlauves. Thank you so much for this honor and opportunity. I can't tell you how much I haven't stopped smiling genuinely for this long, just knowing that I would have this opportunity to not only speak with you personally, but to shed light about the things that I think are very meaningful to me and going to law school during this crazy time that I never anticipated. Well, yeah, let's get right into it. You talk a lot about dreamers and doers, and I want you to tell us what's a dreamer? What's a doer? And can someone be both a dreamer and a doer? Explain that. What are you talking about? Yeah, so dreamers have very powerful thoughts. And now the difference between being a dreamer and a doer, a doer is someone who executes those dreams. They follow through. Doers are the people who make moves. And for me as a serial entrepreneur and a future lawyer of entrepreneurial endeavors, I just want to see people win and I want to see dreamers become doers. And now you can wear neither hat, you could wear either hat, or you could be both a dreamer and a doer. So yeah, that's basically in short what it means. Okay, and yeah, you use those words a lot. And I think that it applies to you. I mean, what are you dreaming of doing? I want to kind of find out where you're going. Right. So what really solidified that tagline for me, cage the doer really started when, actually before my JD program. So I went back to school after being a flight attendant and entrepreneur for a few years, going to ASU law for my master of legal studies degree. And while I was there, I was fortunate enough to be invited to go to the Western Regional Black Law Student Association Convention over MLK weekend in January, 2019. And while I was there, I learned about pushing comfort zones, how being different is your advantage and how to stay motivated to keep your path progressive. So I finally celebrated MLK weekend properly. And I bring this up because I'm 35 right now in my three-year year. And some would say that being a yes man may have created certain hindrances in my life that I'm only in law school now, but really I don't think that at all. It fostered all of the trust, the process, experiences, and the meaningful conversations that most people from Hawaii would never even know existed. And that's what led me to realize that my most important skill is the want to learn. And having that being combined with being a person of action, a doer. And that's why I want to perpetuate that and show people that it's a two-step process. Dream as big as possible. And now let's get that strategic game plan going and cross off that list. Stay persistent and consistent. Yeah. Okay, well, all right. Let me ask you, what have you been doing? In the meantime. Yeah. Okay, so while being at law school, I sat on two different boards. I was the communications director for the Bolsa Association. And then my one all year, I sat on the executive board for the Entertainment Sports Law Association. And then I was our president last year. I'm a part of a PILSA, the IP Law Society. I started a podcast right before two all year started called Two Legit Podcasts. And it's a podcast for non-traditional law students by non-traditional law students. My co-host is actually a former travel nurse. She is first-generation Nigerian from Houston, Anuedo. And then I also started during the pandemic another startup called Not Water. And it is a label that is minority-owned and collaborates with other minority-owned startups in an effort to not only create limited edition small batch products for alcohol, but also to help minority-owned startups in general, just from start to finish, from inception, business plan, all the way through even exit strategy sometimes. So that's the main things that I've been working on. And I have my site set for, but like a 15-year game plan for myself and Hawaii with what I wanna do right now, post-grad and my big long-term goals. So... Okay, you talked a lot about Martin Luther King and that experience in law school and about forming these other companies that are helping different people. But I wanna dive a little bit deeper. I wanna, you know, why are you doing this? I mean, what motivated you to dream and become a doer and an activist like this? I mean, what got you going? And you said you had a career as a flight attendant for Hawaiian Airlines. I mean, I would think that would be a nice job. And you also, you know, we're an intrapreneur. Yeah. But why do this? What is motivating you? Well, there were so many things, you know, it probably started back in sixth grade when I made a promise to myself that I would be an attorney one day. And so, you know, at the end of the day, all we have is our words. So I wanted to fulfill that promise to myself. I also felt while I was a flight attendant that I was underutilizing my education that I was afforded from Punahou and from UCLA. So I really wanted to put that to use. And then, you know, after learning so much from my first startup, which was a bikini label called KJKinis, I became like obsessed with intellectual property and specifically copyrights and trademarks and how that could help brand strategy for other entrepreneurs. So that's kind of where it all took off. And then, you know, while I was a flight attendant, I was gonna start no matter what fall 2019, but I was 31 single and no kids at the time and my mom is a former flight attendant as well. So she told me, you know what? Your brain's on like 70% dead. So maybe you need to go back a year early. So that's what I did. So I went back instead in August 2018 to go to school and do my MLS and I gotta say that was hands down the best decision I made because it prepared me very well for my 1L year and I was able, you know, to make the decision to go to Seattle U after having done my MLS program because I saw that Seattle U was a school that really prides itself on social justice and having conversations that are very uncomfortable for people that we personally I think need to hear in Hawaii. So I'm trying to take everything that I've learned from there and apply it to Hawaii and help further what we're trying to do with education and the economy and sports and entertainment. Okay, I wanna go back to a couple of things you mentioned. You talked about, well, you know, wanting to be a lawyer since sixth grade and deciding that you're gonna go to law school and you talked about MLS and I wanna ask you several questions. Yes. I mean, why go to law school? I mean, how will becoming a lawyer help you realize your dreams and become a doer? And then explain what MLS means. So there's a couple of questions I'll throw at you. I'll say. Oh yeah. Okay, so my MLS degree is the master of legal studies. And so I have that in order to become an attorney you have to be qualified to sit for the bar exam. So that means I needed my JD and not my MLS and then, you know, the MPRE that's the only way that you can become a licensed attorney in most states. So that's why JD as well. So the MLS was more so supplemental and I was able to take other classes that I haven't taken during my JD process. And what was your other question aside from? Why become a law school? Yeah, why become a law lawyer? Why not just move on when you had your MLS? Yeah. You know, I wanna say that it stems from when you are a certain type of entrepreneur that I am, I think on a very crazy grand scale. And to some it might even seem like delusional optimism. So in order to back up the thoughts and the processes and the plans that I have, the best thing to do is to establish that credibility with your education. So I knew that a JD would serve that purpose. And if I want to make systemic changes I need to learn the law. I need to learn how to make those changes the way to go about it, what the loopholes are who to talk to, who are in these positions of power in order to really affect change down the line. We need to understand how the law operates because the law can dictate business which can dictate our economy and other things. So that's why I pick law specifically. The law gives you the strength in the backup. The strength and the credibility, the leverage. You know, like Nelson Mandela said something along the lines of, you know, education is the weapon with which to use to change the world. And I believe that too. So for me, it's all, it's all footed in education. Okay, so we talked kind of generally about issues but I want you to focus. I want to ask you now what are the biggest current social and legal issues for you and other millennials and that are, you know, the future? Yeah, you know, there are just so many issues in general, there will always be issues. But I think at the forefront right now is dealing with reality. You know, the pandemic hit a lot of people differently. So there's all these things in social media. So we're differentiating between what is fact and what is opinion a lot and keeping up with the Joneses. And then prioritizing real goals. You know, and I think that's what's hard with the social issues right now is that we see things on media that aren't necessarily true. And we're aiming for things that aren't necessarily moving towards happiness and creating a better society. So, and then, and legally it's, I think now is the golden opportunity. I think about it like heartbreak, you know? Heartbreak is a golden opportunity to see something that's going on, take the time to realize that it is actually happening. Open your mind, be curious, learn and make a game plan of how you're gonna try to make it better. So. Okay, well, how are you gonna help dreamers become doers? How are you going to help them when you're about to get your law degree and you're about to become a lawyer? Yeah. How do you help a dreamer become a doer? Well, on the small level, I guess, which I still think is very important is helping individual people. So what I do for my Cage the Doer stuff aside from assisting people with their startups and startup consulting, I take on a mentee. So once every five years, I mentor someone 18 years and older because I don't wanna deal with parents, you know? And I take them under my wing and the first thing I ask them is, what is your biggest dream? What is your biggest dream? It's gotta be something that you don't admit to yourself that you don't say a loud, that you think feels silly. And that's the dream that I wanna work with. And then when I can help you come up with a game plan, teach you basic fundamental skills of using a planner, timeliness, appearance, saying thank you, being present, making good eye contact and then linking you up with someone that could further help you in your field. So for example, right now, I'm working with, my mentee is Jerick Robinson and I met him as he was working valet at one of the hotels. And I found out that he wanted to be, you know, in the real estate realm and he's 19 years old. So I actually hooked him up with one of my good friends and classmates who also operates on a fourth quarter mentality and a pay it forward, you know, system, Chris Tosako because he's doing so well in real estate and he was the perfect person to help me mentor Jerick in that direction. So on an individual level, that's what I want to do because I know that when you can make one person feel more fulfilled, then we can create a happier society. And when people are a little bit happier, they start to treat people nicer and then that affects positive change. But aside from that, one of my biggest objectives is to be an adjunct professor at UH. This is what I'm hoping for in the short term after graduation. I wanna be able to teach entrepreneurship law and strategy in that new entrepreneurship program that they have at Shidler. And then from there, I'm hoping to not only teach about entrepreneurship, but what that means for sports to what the name, image and likeness things all changing and increase the recruitability of, you know, students and athletes and retain a lot of our talent here, build our UH system, therefore build our economy. And then my 15 year game plan is to bring over pro sports team and that's where not water kind of links back into, as I'm preparing a pitch for Netflix to show, start to finish how not water got to where it was, how it was just a registered trademark during the pandemic that ends up helping people and Hawaii's economy at large. So it's kind of my outline to that. Wow. I know that's a lot to say. So I see you, I mean, you're kind of doing two things. You're helping individuals, mentoring individuals. That's part of what I hear as a goal for you to help a dreamer become a doer. And you're also have kind of a general community picture. You want to help the community also. And you also mentioned earlier that you were involved in Martin Luther King. What was that about? Is there a bigger picture that involves that also with the community or our individuals? What is that about? Oh, I was just bringing up the MLK weekend because for Bolsa, for the Resturant Regional Convention, it's always usually held on MLK weekend. So that's like January of the year. And that's the only reason why I brought it up. Other than that, what was your other question? I'm sorry. Well, where does, I mean, are you an advocate for access to justice or for Black Lives Matter? Or I mean, are those issues that are also concerning you? Oh, definitely. My first internship actually after one year, I was working with access to justice. And I helped them as a tech fellow to create an app that provided civil legal aid for those in the hearing-impaired community in Washington. So access to justice is very near and dear to my heart because I do believe that everybody deserves that. And as far as Black Lives Matters go, I am by no means any expert on the topic, but I do believe in learning from communities that come together to hold each other accountable, to provide resources, to inform the public, and to let people know that this is actually what's going on. This is an issue. And there are ways to help change that and what we can do to move forward. So that's more so of my take. I just wanna be someone who facilitates this conversation and lets people know that these conversations do occur. And if we wanna have better hiring practices, better lawyering, more macro progression, then we have to have these conversations, definitely. Well, okay, yeah. And let's talk about the community a little bit. I mean, we all know that, well, America has some divisions in it right now. And you talked about helping the community. I mean, how can we bring about positive change and collaboration in the currently heavily divided communities in the United States? What are your plans to address that within our own community and within the United States and maybe within the world? Well, I feel like just speaking up about it, having a platform like this to just convey my thoughts is already a step in the right direction. I think being from Hawaii, we don't think about minorities in the way that those in the mainland do. And I think we can help fight the issues that minorities in the mainland are fighting if we actually know what's going on. And just take the legal field, for instance. Right now, black lawyers only represent 5% of the field. 2% are Asian and 37% are female. And it's my quest to really change that and talk about it. And I do believe that we need more people who look like me and other people, other minorities in these positions in order for change to really come about. So we just have to have these conversations and we have to keep ourselves informed. We have to stand in solidarity and know which resources are appropriate and talk about things like microaggressions. So, yes. So talking, you got to get the word out. Yeah, I think it starts with being open-minded though. We have to be open-minded. Then we have to be willing to listen and have that curiosity to learn. And then seeking those resources and figuring out what your position is and what your purpose is, and then speaking out about it. And I think that's where I'm at right now is that I've learned all these things. I know that things need to be said. I now have a different type of education to give me that credibility. And it actually put me in those positions to have those conversations in the first place. And now I can move forward with any type of positive change that I really want to, as I would tell any entrepreneur, whether or not that's a small business, helping education, vying for different types of policies, whatever it might be. So as long as we're having these conversations, that's the first step. Okay, so those are your dreams for the future, I guess. Is that the right way to, is that my... Yeah, for the current and the future, because I feel like there's other things that we're also not talking about, like mental health issues, even like invisible disabilities, that's something that also needs to be brought to the forefront so that people are just more comfortable talking about it. And the more exposure there is, the easier it is to actually delve into it and get the help that we need to make these type of changes. Because some people may be thinking about it, but they don't know what to do. And so the picture I'm getting is that you want to be vocal. You want to be a spokesperson. You want to be out there talking and getting the word out about issues that you feel are important. Is that the right way? That's one thing for sure. And I just want to help people maximize their potential as well. So I definitely still want to help in the entrepreneurship realm. And yeah, I don't mind being that person to say something. There's a purpose to the Portuguese is what I'm thinking. Okay, all right. Now, we've been going through this COVID pandemic for the past couple of years. But I hear in you optimism, I think. I mean, you seem to be hopeful. And what keeps you going and provides you with that hope and optimism for the future? Yeah, so what you're saying, actually, I wanted to, you kind of read my mind about not only being a spokesperson for these issues, but also just somebody who motivates people and tells people that they can keep going. And so people do often ask me, how do I keep motivated for this long of time? And I honestly, one, I choose to be happy. I want to be happy, so I actively seek being happy. What that means is this past July, I actually started going to therapy and now I have a standing appointment every Thursday with a holistic therapist. And I've been asked multiple times by a lot of people, like, what are the benefits? Why do you do that? You seem more on the happy-go-lucky side anyway. And I say, well, JJ Watt is in tip top shape, but JJ Watt still has a trainer, how many times a day? So if he needs somebody to help upkeep his top shape form, even the happiest person would need, I call it a happiness trainer. We should rebrand it to keep it up there. Other things that I do is I try not, if I'm watching Netflix, I'm gonna watch something more on the optimistic side and not something that'll bring me down. Same thing with music, great conversations that I have with people or just words of encouragement. I screenshot those on my phone and I save it into an album on my phone called Self Talk. That way, whenever I'm feeling some sort of low or down, I can refer to it and be like, oh, oh, that's right. Okay, I got it. Oh, this person believes in me. Okay, awesome. It's really easy because we're right on our phone all the time, you know? And I think because I'm a habitual list maker, I also have lists of what will make me happy for every situation. So I'm gonna be prepping for the bar soon. So I have a list of what I can look forward to while I'm prepping for the bar. So that it's not completely a miserable time. Okay, yeah. And so that's a very nice philosophy and I guess that you're gonna also talk about your philosophy going forward about, you know, look on happiness, try to find things that uplift and that's part of your message also, right? Right, yeah. And why not, why not? Because if we do that and we take pride in doing that and we really try hard with that, then this place is a better place for all of us to live in, you know? Then when you go through the drive through at McDonald's, you will get a hello or a goodbye. And, you know, if you see the elevator coming, they won't just try to close it. People are happier, they'll let you in. Come on, oh, you're driving crazy, but it's okay. Come through, it's all right, you know? No, yeah, well, one thing I noticed you talk a lot about sports too. I do. Is sports something that is positive in your life? Oh, definitely. That's actually how Robbie and I met was all basketball. So, you know, sports has a lot of things for you. It motivates you to still perform at your best, you know? Never underestimate the heart of a champion type of mentality. But I also think that sports can lead down many paths, whether it's education, business, it ties communities together. It has the power to affect change in a different way. And that's why my ultimate goal is bringing over a real solid pro sports team for us because I think that would unify Hawaii in a different kind of way that we have the same pride. That's why I'm a huge Dubs fan is because when I'm in the Bay, I feel the electric energy, you know? And so, I would love that for like UH, but on another level for Hawaii. Okay, yeah. And, you know, especially, you know, it's funny that during these times, sports I think can bring people together. Yeah, that's interesting. Now, in the few minutes we have left, I wanna ask you, I mean, has there been anyone or anything that has helped you become a doer that has moved you from the dreamer stage into the doer stage? Is there anything in particular or is there any inspiration who or what would that be? You know, I feel like inspiration comes daily. You never know how a single conversation or just a hello could make a difference in somebody's day. So I try to just... I think it's a combination of that and maybe it was my first startup. When I saw what I was capable of and I could teach myself something, follow through on it. And I think there's just something to be said about someone who puts their money where their mouth is, you can do it and that's the main thing is I think people are immediately frozen because they're afraid of their own light and why not shine that is how I feel. So it wasn't necessarily a specific person or instance, it's more so a culmination of wanting to get something done, wanting to maximize my potential, being consistently inspired by those around me, wanting to do the same for them. And why not? If other people... One of the things my mom always said was, you should never be jealous of a person because them succeeding only shows you that you can do it too. And so that's my thing. Like I'm showing you, it can be done. You show me it can be done. Let's go and do it. So, okay. So actually your mom had some good words of advice for you. Oh yeah, lots. Definitely, you never know what more people are fighting. So always give them the benefit of the doubt. So I always tell myself if there's a crazy person driving in front of me, I just gotta tell myself it's cause they gotta go number three or something. And then it makes my day a lot better. Yeah, and we're all human. And maybe we have to think about that a little bit more and give people a little more leeway and then more opportunities and keep talking. That's what I hear you saying. Especially in the legal field, we're supposed to be advisors and counselors. So we have to be listeners in order to do that. Yes. So before we can talk, we need to listen. That's good advice. You gotta hear what people are saying in order to act on it and help them, right? Is that what you're saying? 100%, we need to know the why and the how and listen to their story in order to know why people are the way they are and why they made the decisions that they've made. And if we're gonna help them, we have to listen so that we can help them to their maximum. And you seem to have compassion for people too. You seem to be accepting. Is there something that gave you that compassion? Is there some view of life that you feel made it so that you could feel that way towards others? Because not everybody does feel that way. By the way, even some lawyers. Well, I probably would say it's my mom and my grandma if anything, everybody is equal. That's how I've been raised. You just really never know what someone is fighting at the current circumstance. So everybody in my eyes is equal. I am a big advocate for making everyone feel included because maybe it's just as much as I feel like I've succeeded, I've also failed and been rejected just as much and I would never want anyone to feel that way. And maybe that's why I pushed so hard for it because I know how it feels to be torn down and I wouldn't want anyone to feel that way. So appearances and are not always what they appear to be? Oh, definitely, yeah. My conversation is important. And also maybe that has why you like sports so much because I think that's true of sports too, especially this last weekend where we saw different things happen with football teams. Right, right. Now, from my last question for you, any thoughts about the Super Bowl? Oh, I actually don't have a lot of thoughts about the Super Bowl. I wish I knew more about football than it seems like I might know. So what about you? Do you have thoughts about it? Well, I guess, you know, we just have to wait and see and it's kind of interesting, these two teams that are playing, maybe they weren't always expected to be these two. So maybe life is like that, you know? And you have to maybe, you know, talk to your teammates and get them out there thinking positive and maybe that's what'll happen. Now, any words of wisdom to conclude our discussion today? Any thoughts about where you're going from here and what you want to aspire to? Well, just thoughts moving forward. Just, you know, I guess, keep working hard. Know that you're not alone. A lot of people are struggling right now, whether or not they internalized it or broadcast it. Whatever it is that you seek to do is possible. Make a game plan, stick around people who do believe in you as one. If you don't have that person, self-talk is key. And I know that for myself because I've been remote for almost two and a half years and I heavily rely on myself to remind myself. But if not, you know, tune into things like this. Everybody that you've had on your show is very positive and forward-thinking and very curious. So know what is out there so that you can maintain that life and hit your goals and treat every day like it's the fourth quarter. So fourth quarter mentality. Okay, well, good advice. And Kelsey Jandak, thank you for being my guest today. Thank you. I look forward to where you're going but you've also come a long way. And, you know, you've talked about dreaming and doing and I'm looking forward to your crossing the sea and doing more becoming someone who fulfills their dreams. So Aloha, thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. All right, Aloha.