 Joe Rogan Experience number 1178, Dr. Rhonda Patrick. This is actually the 8th time Dr. Rhonda Patrick has been on the JRE. I looked this up because I remember listening to a podcast and actually learning things and I was like, that must have been a long time ago, because now I feel like I'm batting in the major leagues compared to these people. But she was on back in like the beginning of 2014 which was around when I was only a year into this diet so I still had a lot of things to learn compared to what I know now. But overall the problem is Dr. Rhonda Patrick isn't really well versed on the carnivore diet especially you know I mean even people on the carnivore diet aren't well versed on the nutrient density of certain animal foods and that pertain to a lot of questions she was asked and couldn't really answer professionally on at least from my experience. And then she just talked about the importance of vegetables a lot but the problem I have with that is the vegetables we have now are modified forms of like one family of cruciferous vegetables and you know they're not the wild plants and wild vegetables we used to buy it's one thing if they were saying oh go to local farmers markets by you know heirloom grains by local fruits local vegetables incorporate those into your diet it's one thing to say that as opposed to say shove broccoli sprouts down your throat which is pretty much what they said and the most contradictory thing was she's kind of against the diet this whole time and then she starts talking about the benefits of salmon roe and DHA and I'm like I'm like miss the salmon roe I've been advocating salmon roe for two like two three years now at least on YouTube and I've been eating salmon roe myself for much longer than that I've been I was taking spoonfuls of cod liver oil five six years ago when I started this diet well let's actually go down the podcast itself and just talk on the point just to give you guys a summary of the podcast for the most part we're not gonna I mean there are like I might say like you know brought up how her baby likes plastic a bottle talks about the dangers of BPA how the water sits in plastic and heat they talk about air pollution and break fumes but this was literally like 20 minutes of those four points I just said and what we're gonna really focus on and talk about are the carnivore diet points so there's probably about half of this podcast we're not really gonna talk about we're just gonna mention the brief points they were talking about for 10 20 minutes at times so the first part of the carnivore I was Rhonda Patrick saying that's crazy no way that was her response when she first found out about this diet but you know she was like oh that's crazy eat that much meat but Joe Rogan probably gets most of his calories from animal foods even if by volume he eats a lot of vegetables and all indigenous groups got 65 to 75 percent of their calories from animal foods and the remainder from wild plant foods or in some cases in after the Neolithic rye bread oats various grains but there are some groups of indigenous people that got almost 80 to 90 percent of their calories from animal foods so it's not unrealistic as she's making it sound with the context of those peoples then she said there's no published evidence I was like what do you mean there's no published evidence there's no published evidence on the paleo diet which is what she follows there's no published evidence on a lot of things so you're just going to dismiss it you know there's no real published evidence on keto or various other diets that you speak about are beneficial you know to the same degree that there's very few things done on the carnivore diet well people can I mean my daddy to loaf of bread a day and I'm sure people have been doing that for many years but there's no studies on that what is like I'm not I'm just I'm getting silly now her two theories to why the diet worked was because people eat less on a higher protein diet and that people eat the same food they tend to eat less of it the first part eating less on a higher protein diet is true because most people are lacking nutrition and high protein foods have more nutrition in them and we're talking vitamins and minerals as well as just protein and fat and people eating the same food they eat less that ties in with and round a Patrick of all people you should know that fat protein and carbohydrate have different satiation levels if you eat only butter and then you know you're only gonna eat like a thousand calories with a butter at most and then if you move on to steak then you can move on to honey your ice cream different foods have different palatabilities I think I have to redo my video on food palatability because it's something people don't understand the importance of eating fat or liver first like the organs and the fat and the satiating foods first and then moving on to the lean protein moving on to sweets because your body has different satiation levels for different foods but for her not to know that and to know why that's the reason when people only eat one type of food they eat less to me screams not too experienced try to compare microbiome changes in fasting to the carnivore diet but the only common thing between fasting and the carnivore diet is they can both remove inflammation from the digestive system and then she said minocycline which is it was an antibiotic use that alternate gut bacteria that wiped out the bad gut bacteria as well as the good eventually people saw benefits short-term so she was trying to say all people are going to only see benefits in the carnivore diet short-term but the carnivore diet your gut microbiome adapts to me it's a permanent thing it's not a temporary fix and it's not like those gut bacteria are inherently bad they're just different and then she said putrification is linked to colon cancer but putrification is just how foods digest in the human digestive system we have a putrificative digestive system whereas herbivorous animals have a fermentation money it's just she's just using words that sound bad then she started bringing up putracene and cadaverine which are breakdowns of amino acids every run a Patrick has putracene and cadaverine Joe Rogan has plenty of putracene and cadaverine they're just framing it as something bad this is almost like almost like propaganda they're just saying things that sound bad to scare people like fear-mongering these are normal what's it called these are normal products of amino acid digestion and they're kind of saying they're bad because of how they sound and it's probably working to some people unfortunately it has nothing to do with you know I mean it's probably higher in carnivorous people because they eat more meat but it's just a process of human metabolism human digestion and you know in you it's Eskimos all these indigenous groups eating these foods in large amounts you know it's just missing that that anecdote and then analogy just seems silly and then if we want to bring up the lifespan it will bring up the lifespan of those people in a minute but you know she really did emphasize that this diet might only be good for a once a two-year window and then they started talking about Sean Baker but guys Sean Baker is an athlete a very high-level athlete he follows a not-good version of the carnivore diet so to speak and using him as an example from this diet even Michaela Peterson aren't necessarily the best examples starts comparing fasting remove inflammation went over that she said the diet was risky potentially dangerous and unstudied but you have people literally eating poison sugar vegetable oils refined processed foods fast food saying meat and the only meat diet is worse than the seren American diet to me seems crazy it's just unbelievable setting themselves up for long-term damage going back to there's no data are the perfect skulls of indigenous Eskimos and Native Americans not data you know our is looking at certain groups of people and seeing their skeletal structure and how physically developed they were compared to us and their larger brain size is that not data come on you know the 17th century English had a life expectancy of 35 years old hunter-gatherers if they live to 40 tended to live into their 70s but hunter-gatherers did not die from the generative diseases hunter-gatherers got their skull cracked open by grok unfortunately then they brought up Michaela Peterson giving nutrition counseling and yeah I kind of agree she shouldn't because she had diarrhea for six weeks and didn't know that the only reason you would be having diarrhea for that long of a period of time is that you're allergic to the food it's not a good source of food maybe it's tainted with cross-contamination you're overcooking the food sometimes rendered fat does not digest too well or the fat is too high in omega-6 fatty acids or it could even be a histamine intolerance you should never have diarrhea for more than a day or two on this diet if you eat a food her not knowing that just shows a lack of nutritional knowledge in general you know her sticking with diarrhea for six weeks without trying to say maybe I should try different food maybe I should cook it differently is just to me she should not be giving anyone nutritional advice that's a that's a bit of an understatement and then Rhonda Patrick brought up that she follows modified paleo and I was like oh my god this woman is such a hypocrite you know she's saying that there's no data on the carnivore diet but she follows modified paleo which is like the most criticized diet for not having data to back it up then they started talking about fish oil how it gives a dopamine response in the body and how she takes three to six grams per day and that when they do studies on fish oil they usually only do one gram but three to six grams of fish oil guys is like a few hundred calories worth of mackerel it's not actually a crazy amount but then Joe Rogan asked is there a USDA recommendation for fish oil and she said oh no there isn't because you can convert ALA into omega 3s but Rhonda Patrick was kind of you know she was saying oh you could convert it to EPA and DHA she literally said you can convert ALA to EPA and DHA but it's been shown that in men you cannot raise blood levels of DHA with an ALA supplement and the conversion rate is minuscule you'd have to literally drink like a cup of flax oil every day which is completely crazy her not knowing this and then talking about the importance of fish oil and stuff to me is just so contradictory and then what's even funnier is she says the USDA doesn't recommend fish oil but yet she's taking all this fish oil and then we start talking about vitamin C and vitamin E she's like oh the USDA recommendations are important am I losing my losing brain cells right now I think that's this feeling I have in my brain Jesus start talking about micronutrients the RDAs 30 essential vitamins and minerals to various metabolic functions the prop main problem I have with RDAs is D3 is too low calcium is too high magnesium is a bit unrealistic you know just a lot of the RDAs are pretty incorrect she said this diet oh no the RDAs are set for deficiencies not for optimal health she said that people think their glucose levels are so low on the carnivore diet they don't need vitamin C but that is a part of glucose metabolism requiring vitamin C but all animal tissue has vitamin C you know they kind of made a point that oh if you eat certain organs you'll get vitamin C but all animal tissue has it especially if you're eating three to four pounds of meat a day and if you guys haven't read the fat of the land William R. Stephenson I'm gonna do a video on scurvy in a couple days definitely check it out any fresh food has anti-scorbutic properties the importance of preventing scurvy is more about eating fresh food that's not overcooked as opposed to eating vegetables and fruits scurvy is caused by preserved foods and it sets in with about three weeks I remember on one expedition in that book they got scurvy because they disobeyed orders and only eight preserved foods and scurvy was cured on four days of a raw meat and cooked meat diet literally cured in four days completely they started talking about how spleen liver I don't think they mentioned spleen had vitamin C but liver also has vitamin C this girl eats salmon roe every day and she doesn't know what has vitamin C and vitamin E like are you serious maybe I'm just maybe I'm just too smart who knows maybe I'm the only person in the planet who knows that salmon roe has vitamin E and vitamin C maybe I'm the only person that ever looked at a non USDA nutritional database for vitamins I'm getting tilted man you know I mean for all tissues in the animal for the most part it's but if it's a pastured animal will have some vitamin C and vitamin E you know the various indigenous groups eating these only meat diets not getting scurvy but they did eat both raw and cooked they did eat various head tissues organs and more things like that not just grain fed muscle meat if you ate only grain fed well done muscle meat salted I think you might actually be able to get scurvy like if it was really overcooked like if you ate barbecue every day and that was it like slow cooked barbecue I think you might actually get scurvy vitamin E is another thing she brought up as a very potent antioxidant but same thing with vitamin C it's in those animal foods they just don't know about them and then she brought up I believe folate and said you have to eat like 150 grams of beef liver per day for folate and then she was like who does that I do no I'm joking guys folate is I do eat that much liver but I'm just joking in a sense that you don't have to do that because every animal food pretty much has some amount of folate if you eat like a pound of beef you get like I think 20 to 30 percent of your folate and if most people eat two to three pounds a day and pastured foods have more of all these vitamins you know kidney has folate beef liver salmon row all organ tissues in the animal are much higher in folate than the muscle she mentioned like you're damaging your DNA and you have to eat liver every day to prevent that this is just so crazy oh and an hour and three minutes in he mentioned I follow a young man who advocates eating organ meats what can you say against that and then she said oh well you might not get enough magnesium she kind of started around it too she was like her only rebuttal for someone that ate plenty of organ meats was you're not getting enough magnesium and then it's not practical to eat that many organ meats but magnesium is if you ate two to three pounds four pounds of meat a day with organs you're getting I believe a few hundred milligrams of magnesium so you're gonna get more than almost anyone a standard American diet gets so I don't know why you would criticize magnesium because no one gets no one gets their magnesium RDA on this diet and people that think they're getting that their magnesium RDA are getting it from nuts and seeds that actually have phytic acid so they're not getting as much magnesium as they think there are it's bound to oxalate and phytic acid you think eating a handful of Brazil nuts is giving you magnesium it's not they briefly touched on supplementing but guy supplementing doesn't get tricky check out my electrolytes video to see how complicated supplementing gets with all the chelated minerals glycanate mallet citrate citrate mallet phosphate there's just so many different chelated minerals and each of them respond to the body differently I don't want to give anyone ideas but like potassium citrate is the amount the one that occurs in food naturally there's magnesium glycanate there's just too many supplementing gets too complicated I prefer to use natural foods like seaweed they brought up the future for bacteria and saying that you know it's it's bad for the digestive system but it's just so crazy they're just using words that sound bad that are normal processes of human metabolism she started saying that humans ate these vegetables for phytochemicals polyphenols isoflavones for thousands of thousands of years but we didn't eat these modern cruciferous vegetables that you're telling people to shove down their throats like what are you talking about it doesn't make any sense you're saying we ate you're pretty much saying we ate wild plant foods for thousands of years but eat broccoli which is a man made vegetable and the other constant that we ate for thousands of thousands of years is these animal food so why wouldn't you bring that up too they started talking about studies about the benefits of sulfur urethane but it's like studies like oh if you eat X amount of broccoli sprouts per day your chance of prostate cancer lowers 5% like come come on you know they talked about how it treats autism symptoms and I'm like well I don't see cave paintings of children with autism I don't see any signs of autism in you know indigenous people didn't even know there are some indigenous people that didn't know what insomnia was they literally never had problems sleeping ever in their cultural history you know the humans in their primitive state or absent of these problems I mean a good example like your cats and your dogs will sleep all day you know and I mean that's that's probably not a good example so let's move on to something else I'll start talking about E. coli and and they didn't what bothered me was they didn't know anything about E. coli you know Dr. Rhonda Patrick does all this nutrition research and doesn't know anything about E. coli or where it's from and E. coli isn't is an all digestive systems of animals what makes E. coli harmful is cattle that are fed grains have higher acidity in the stomach and E. coli becomes acid resistant what that does is you know when humans get that train of E. coli it makes them sick and it's in manure and that's how it gets on the veg just because if that's very simple to explain that Joe or Rhonda did not know that to me is a concern and they I mean to me this just seems stage that they don't know they have to Google stuff like that off the top of their head and then she said Sulfuraphane is so beneficial read the studies guys read the studies on Sulfuraphane but she talked negatively about heterocyclic amines which are formed when you cook meat I was like there is specifically a study on heterocyclic amines that says there is insufficient scientific evidence that these genotoxic compounds cause cancer in humans which to me showed she's telling you I'll read the studies on my stuff but she hasn't read the studies on the stuff she's talking negatively about Joe Rogan started talking about how he eats more vegetables than me but calorically speaking he probably eats way more meat than vegetables just from the percentage of calories he's getting from meat then they dismissed the anecdotes of the carnivore diet but then they brought up anecdotes of elimination diets fasting keto so they they're just choosing which anecdotes are good in which anecdotes aren't which is in this very hypocritical they said there were positive benefits like hormesis when stressing your body in certain ways with plant foods but the only benefit for that might be to adapt to future structures but again guys the point is they're referring to plant foods that are man-made all cruciferous which is not what we would have eaten in the wild that's to me that's the whole thing I can't really get past in this argument you're saying all the benefits of plant foods blah blah blah blah but you keep talking about cruciferous vegetables you know you're not talking about roots you're not talking about other there's thousands and thousands of probably other vegetables you could be talking about and eating and fruits but you're just hammering home cruciferous vegetables which doesn't make sense to me really doesn't make sense you know you're not talking about you know you know there's six like at least six different types of wheat right there's iron corn wheat which digests much easier on the stomach there's spelt there's emmer wheat there's chorus on wheat there's different types of winter wheats hard red winter wheat spring wheat there's different types of rise there's different types of the Barley's Fauro there's literally dozens of probably heirloom grains that one properly prepared would be safe to consume but you guys didn't know that maybe you should have me on the podcast and ask me instead of just mentioning me without saying my name they brought up the McKayla Peterson had diarrhea for six weeks and I said that earlier she has no clue what she's doing prolonged fast more than 48 hours is what's considered prolonged fast I fasted for up to two weeks guys I have to do a video on fasting they talk about a fasting mimicking diet for a little bit and at this point this was kind of where carnivore went out the window but they did start talking about DHA and and that's why Ronda Patrick takes a lot of fish oil which I think is a problem because of the questionable rancidity of fish oil and she eats a lot of salmon every day for her DHA so for me to her to talk about all these foods and then say I take a crazy amount of DHA because of how beneficial it is I'm like you're literally consuming a high fat soluble vitamin diet from animal foods but you're speaking against it almost so I don't know I really don't and then and then what bothered me was just the lack of general knowledge you know she eats salmon or every day but doesn't know I curra is salmon eggs I know I'm working in a restaurant I know that stuff but to me that was just a little silly and I've advocated salmon roll for your guys for years guys I'm Mr. Salmon Row I've been talking about salmon rows since like 2015 I always recommended it to people when I started this diet and taking it for a while myself uh you know they hypothesize that uh small percentage of the population is allergic to a lot of plants but guys people are allergic to a lot of things they just ignore low level inflammatory reactions you know people go their whole lives farting terrible and having digestive issues and they don't understand that you could have different degrees of allergies to foods drinking raw dairy might give me insomnia for four days when eating unease might make me fart but those are both technically allergies and even if brain fog from eating wheat is considered not considered an allergy you know you can people can tolerate humans are very resilient they just suffer from things that they're so used to that they don't consider that those are allergy symptoms and they suggested using fasting to fix the gut as opposed to a carnivore diet as a band-aid but a carnivore diet isn't a band-aid it's more of a permanent cast because it removes all inflammation and increases nutrient density if done properly uh then they spoke about the ketones effect on the brain for a while and then they talked about saunas for like 40 minutes so a very typical ronda patrick podcast but this is already way longer than i wanted it to be guys thank you guys for watching i got this got a dynamic microphone because picks up too much the compressor mics the condenser mics uh they pick up too much background noises they could literally pick up like my computer fan it's ridiculous uh no i mean you know this has been kind of i had to i did this response because like he literally mentioned me on the last two carnivore related podcast without saying my name which kind of pissed me off to no end uh to be truthful but what are you gonna do uh so thank you guys for watching if you guys would like to support me i feel like a broken record just share the video i do a new thing on patreon where i will do questions answered for certain amounts of money full diet write-ups partial diet write-ups and one-on-one consultations depending on various degrees of patreon support guys you can check that out the patreon links in the description if you guys would like to reach out to me for one-on-one consultations uh related to diet fitness uh cooking uh whatever it may be guys if you want to just ask me questions about myself uh just shoot me an email frank atufano at gmail.com hey maybe you want to ask me frank how do you get your teeth so white frank how do you do your eyebrows how do you put on your makeup things like that how do you get this ridiculous looking afro hair