 What is Indigenous education? Tisa, that's a, that's a wide area, you know? Yeah. Well, to me, I think Indigenous education has to do with the land-based, land-based knowledge, and I think that by learning from the land that they can, the students are, you know, whoever will have more awareness of the environment, more awareness about, you know, the relationship they have with the plant life, animal life, and so on, you know? And the importance of knowing what the tobacco is and how it relates to, you know, the relationship with the land, for example, because you always have to, it's a reciprocal relationship that we have. So if we're going to take anything from the land, we have to make sure we give, we give back, you know? And I think when we talk about Indigenous education, that is one of the most important components is that reciprocal relationship that we have because anything that we do regarding Indigenous education, this tobacco always has to come first. Because we were the last ones to come here upon the earth, according to some of our prophecies and teachings, you know? And we're the most pitiful-est ones. So when we think about it from that aspect, then we know that, you know, if we're going to take a plant from the ground or if we're going to kill an animal or, you know, like we need them to survive, so this here is what really helps with that, you know? And then the other thing, too, I think when we think about Indigenous education is all the different stages of life that you go through, you know, like, because our way of life is exactly that, you know? It's a way of life, it's not a religion. So when we walk our path, there are certain things that we always have to be mindful of and we have to be aware of. For example, when we know that the baby is coming, we know that we know by that water, when that water breaks the birth, and then when that baby travels through the canal, the birth canal, it's already telling the baby that you have to work on this side. So that, you know, that knowledge is already there, it's already embedded, it's in the blood of us as Nishnabe people, and so we have these different things that tell us about that. So the baby, you know, when the baby is working through, traveling through that birth canal, that, you know, the baby is kind of saying, you know, or the spirit or whoever is saying that you have to work on this side. So then when the baby comes, you know, after making it through the birth canal, you know, and then when you watch that baby take its first breath, you know, and they begin their journey on this side. So then all through their life, all through their life there's things there that help to guide them, to give them that grounding, you know, like all these different teachings and all these different ceremonies. So, for example, like, you know, when the baby first walks upon the earth, you know, they start walking up the ceremony, you know, because it gives that child an opportunity to offer him or her to explore the earth, to develop that relationship with the earth. And then, you know, as the child's growing, you know, there's different ceremonies along the way that helps that child to, you know, to be grounded, to understand that they, you know, they are part of creation. So, you know, all these different ceremonies, that's what helps them to understand their relationship. And that's where that reciprocal comes in, because all creation is giving to them, so they, the child or the human beings or Mishnabek have to, they have to give back, you know. I'm big on giveaways, you know, I really truly believe that we need to give away every time there's something that's given to us, whether it's a naming ceremony, fasting ceremony, you know. Puberty writes fast, you know, like all those ceremonies we need to give back because something very special and very sacred happened. So, you know, it's important to give back because of that reciprocal relationship. And, you know, when we look at that, you know, the creator gave that path to us, you know, to walk and he gave all those original instructions, you know, and he gave all those ceremonies. So we have to always respect the child creation, and this is one way, it's by the tobacco. So we're giving, you know, and even we give back to when we have those giveaways, you know. So to me, that's what I look at in indigenous education. And it's about you as a person walking upon this earth and learning all that you can learn, you know, because one day when you get that age of elderhood or grandparenthood or whatever way you want to call it, because you're going to turn around now and you're going to look at that life coming towards you. And you have to, I guess the question that needs to be asked is, did I leave good tracks to follow? Because then you become that knowledge keeper. So you, and again, you're giving back. See, there's that reciprocal relationship. So you're giving back to those ones coming behind you, all the knowledge that you've attained in your life. So it's not just, like people say that the elders have a lot of knowledge and they have a lot of those experiences and whatnot, you know, and it's true, I agree. But there's also those young ones like yourself who has knowledge, you know. But when you look at the relationship you and I have, like we had a good conversation here. But yet at the same time, I'm giving back to you, you know, based on the experience that I had and the knowledge that I've gained. And that's how it should be with a lot of our elders and the young people, they should be giving back. Again, that's that reciprocal relationship. So when I look at indigenous knowledge or indigenous education, I guess that's part of it, you know. And it could be so much, there's so much here that's such a big question, you know. Because when, you know, even like you've heard that story about the seven stages of life. And all that goes on in those seven stages, you know, the ceremonies, the feasting that you need to do and, you know, how to walk a good path and to walk it with kindness, those values, those Mishnabe values we need to really focus on as well. I don't know. What are they? Like some say the seven grandfather teachings, yes. There's those values in the four direction teachings. And then of course we have like the values that we've learned, you know, just in our own home environment. So there's so much there, that's such a big question. Yeah. So I guess too, just with this question, like you talked a little bit about what you, like the tracks you wanna leave and is there anything, like anything specific in terms of knowledge that you feel that you want, you know, future generations to know, like, is there like a number one thing that? Well, my gift that I have, I guess, is that right surpass such a, and you know, to me, to me that's important because, you know, we hear that the women are the teachers. They're the teachers of the knowledge, teachers of the language, you know, teachers of all the different ceremonies that they need to be aware of, you know. So if there was any one thing, it would be the role of woman, you know, the role and the responsibility that a woman has in regards to her children and her partner, or even creation in general. Creator fashioned her like, like how he's, you know, cause he created all of this. And so, you know, her role is to be able to give life. But even as she's carrying that life, you know, she's molding that life, just like the creation story, you know, and she's molding that life. So to me, the woman is a very important, important component when we talk about indigenous knowledge or education, you know. Cause when you look at the woman, you know, like she has to be, she's in tune with her children. You know, she's in tune with what is happening with them. She can pick up on it right away. Like I have a daughter that lives in Texas. I know when something's up, you know. And then when I call her, you know, she'll end up telling me like what's happening. And, you know, that's, I call it, that's the umbilical cord. Your child is still connected to your umbilical cord, you know, but we don't really see it, you know. But that's how I see that. So the woman then, you know, because she is the first teacher, she's the one that gave this little human being life, you know. And even though like, you know, the father's there, but it's her that's actually teaching the child mostly about values, like respect, for example, and stuff like that, you know. And children will do what you do. Like they'll act like you are. And so they're, the mother is, the woman is really a part of that. That would go on and on. So, okay. So the next question is, are there any stories or kind of talk to this actually, are there any particular stories that you'd want your grandchildren or grandchildren to be able to hear you talk about in terms of indigenous knowledge? I think one, it's funny because when I was down in Texas visiting my granddaughter, I took out the Michelle's book and I read some stories to her in that book. And I think one of the most important ones is that that should be passed on from generation to generation is the creation story. Because, you know, like I hear it even today that, you know, if you don't know where you're going or where you came from, how do you know where you're going? We hear that often, you know. And it does, it does make sense. And, you know, like we have to kind of see our path from back then in order to move forward. And even like our history, Nishinama history, like what has happened to us as a people, you know. And so as long as we know what is happening there and where we're going, our generations need to know our history. I think that's so important, they need to learn their history. But the creation story is one, just one aspect of that. And the language is another component. I think, like when we're talking about 10 years, like goodness, our language is, if we don't start speaking our language and using our language, like I don't cut my little granddaughter, she, I mean, she's just learning Navajo. And to me, that's fine. As long as it's an indigenous language. And for me, not knowing my language, you know, like as strong as some of the elders my age, like I feel like I'm really missing out on something. And when we go, when I go to places and I hear that language, you know, it's just, it just, it just really moves me, you know. So I think the language needs to be really promoted. And it really needs to be brought in the forefront. And because our language, you know, if we don't have our language, you know, what's going to happen to our culture? And because it's, it's so important that language. And I think too, the other, like my other granddaughter, she just recently fasted her very first one in the fall. And to me, like when she did that, what that was telling me is that, connecting to the spiritual aspect of life. So, you know, she, to me, like when we talk about spirituality, you know, we know that there's spirit, there's a spirit in every living thing, or human beings, you know. But we also know that there's spirits that are, you know, that are around our ancestors and so on. But when she did that, that's what she connected to, was the spiritual aspect of life. So I think, you know, when we look at, you know, the next 10 years or over something like that, children need to be taught about the spiritual aspect of life. So yes, yes, we know that a tree outside has life. There's a spirit there. There's winds, you know, there's a spirit in there. But how in depth do they want to learn about that? So, you know, when I look at that little girl that went out there to fast, you know, she came home and, you know, she told her mom, I just, I want to go back there. She said, you know, she said, I miss it. She said, because I could smell, it was a different kind of smell. And she said, I just, you know, she hugged her, she took her own pillow out there. So she just hugged her pillow and she just said, well, I could just smell it being out there. But that's that connection, you know, to her spirituality and her spirit connecting to what was out there. And, you know, to have that experience, I think that's really important. Like all children should go through something like that. Because then they get a better understanding of, you know, when they walk their path. There's always going to be those spirits there, you know? And those spirits are those ones that are going to give them that guidance and direction. And, you know, I see children today that they don't really have that, you know? And it's kind of sad in a way because they don't have that connection. Like when I look at this little girl, and even my own girls, you know, how they connect and how they feel about that. And I look at that little girl, you know, and how she is now. You know, just the way she conducts herself and what she says, you know? And she usually tells her mom, sometimes we need as much. Because for whatever is happening, you know? So that spiritual connection needs to be part of that down the road, you know? More of our people need to learn more about that. Yes, it's starting. There's a lot of our people that are starting to go to ceremonies and whatnot, you know? So it's starting, but we really need to maintain that. And probably bring it more. Like bring it out more. Like sometimes, you know, we talk about that, like we know that the spirits do exist, you know? And those are the ones that help us sometimes. Sometimes those are the ones that could scare us too. Okay? But yeah, it's important to know that, to understand that thought. And that you yourself as a spirit in this vessel of the body that's walking. That's walking this realm. You know, one time I was up in a bush and, well, I guess like I was fasting. And anyways, when I was sitting there, it just got really, all of a sudden, it just got really quiet. And this was in the spring. And it just was really, all of a sudden, and then I could sense something coming, you know? And I was just, you know, I, well, I couldn't run because I was, you know, but I just sense something was coming and I didn't know what it was. And then as it was moving this way towards me, I kind of braced myself. I hung out to my tobacco, you know? And I just kind of waited because as it was moving, the birds were, they were quiet, you know? They were quiet when that was coming because there was just no sound out there, nothing. Even no wind, total quiet. And that's what I noticed because the birds weren't singing. And I thought, you know, like I have to follow them, you know? So I kept quiet and I just sat there and I held my tobacco in my hand and I could feel that coming, you know? And then I was just getting so close and I just went, and I could just feel it. It went right through me and then it passed. And then I kind of sat up there, you know? And I was sitting there and then opened my eyes and then I started to hear the birds, you know? They started to sing again. Anyway, what I found was that it was the changing of the season from spring to summer. And that's a spiritual connection, you know? Just to feel that, you know, that season change like that, that to me, you know, it was really, it was such a like scary but awesome feeling. And it kind of relates to, to my name, you know? So that spiritual connection to creation and to one another is so, it's important. When we talk about the 10 years, learn more about that. Children need to learn more about that. Whether it's through fasting or whether it's through, you know, storytelling, like even storytelling, when we do, when we say tell stories, there's meanings behind them. And when you hear those stories, because it's like, it's like, if there was, say, a group of people sitting around the circle of my age, exactly my age, you know? And we hear a story. Somebody might get that story different compared to my interpretation for me because we're at a different level of growth and development, you know, what, you know, spirituality, whatever, you know? So that story has a different meaning for that different person who's still yet the same age as me. So, and then you place a child in there in that circle. When you're telling the story, child may have a different interpretation of it. So when we talk about storytelling, then it's actually a way to bring meaning to life, our life, you know? Because going back to parenting, going back to being a mother, when the child is growing, we have no right to have control over the child. But we can give them decisions or choices rather, you know? Well, do you want to do this or do you want to do that? Because in our whole life, we're always going to make choices. There's always going to be two for sure. So we have to, you know, so by doing that with the child, then we're allowing that child to make the decisions for himself, you know, himself. And then that way, it still maintains that power that the Creator gave them, you know? And we have no right to control our children in that way. Yes, sometimes we have to say, and be stern and say, no, you can't do that, you know? But sometimes, so a majority of the time, you're going to give them options, you know? Because it's not our place to have that control over them. And when you give them those options, then they have the power to make the choice, you know, rather than us saying, no, you go there or, you know, yes, you can do this or, you know? So you always teach them that about giving them choices and options, you know? So I know, like, when my girls were little, I used to tell them lots of stories about, you know, just life in general. And sometimes they were based on life experience. And sometimes they were stories from teachings or like ceremonies. And, you know, like, just sharing that with them, they, I could see how they themselves have developed personally, you know, and how they still have that power to be who they are. So when you give a child choices, then you're not taking that power away from them. So when you give them storytelling, it's up to them to decide, well, what does that mean for me? You get it? You know? So, so storytelling is really important. And yes, they say storytelling is not, could only be done in the wintertime, but sometimes when you're talking or trying to discipline your child, you're going to give them a story related to that action or behavior, you know? And then they make the decision on how they see that in relation to the mistake that they made. So I can't even think of an example right now. Well, you know, like just for example, I'm going to try it. If a child was caught stealing, yeah. So if that child was caught stealing, then the storytelling around that, you know, well, you could give a story, your own personal story, or you could give a story related to maybe, what do they call those stories? Because a story that's related to that anyways, you know? And so then that gives the child, you know, the child is made to think about her actions or her behavior in relation to what he or she did, what's stealing. That's not a very good one. Or hurting somebody, you know? Because you could use the story of respect, something around respect, you know, if a child is hurting somebody. So storytelling is really, I don't even think many of us do that anymore, you know? I don't think too many of us do storytelling in relation to a child's behavior and actions. Or storytelling when somebody comes to you for advice on something, then you give a story. The reason I say that is that I remember, I met this old man a long time, and people probably know of him already, like P. O. Cheese, you know? But he used to tell stories, you know? And one story I remember he was sharing because he talked about it, but he based it on his personal life. And he said, you know, I never smoked in my life. And he said, my wife died. He was already up in age, you know? And he said, my wife died. And then somebody came over and, you know, I was grieving so much. And he gave me a pack of smokes and told me to smoke these cigarettes. And he said, that's how I got to smoking. And so I was sitting there. And I asked, I asked other people who were there, what did you get out of that story? Just said he picked up smoking. Yeah, he did, but what else? But to me, the story that I got out of it, like I didn't say they were wrong or anything, you know? I nice shared with him, the story I got out of that is because of the grief of his, the loss of his wife. He needed something there to help him. And so he picked up smoking. So, you know, there's reasons why I reduce them. And even myself, like I used to smoke. And I remember having my own cigarette. And I share this story. Story. And I said one time, you know, because people were trying to quit, you know? And I said to them, you know what I did? I said one time, I said, my sister and I, it was March's quit smoking month, I guess. So I mentioned to her, you know, we should quit smoking. And she said, yeah, you know? So anyway, then she calls me the night before, you know? Well, are you ready? For what, I said. They quit smoking. Oh, yes, I said, we did say that. And she said, yeah. So anyway, I went outside here, was probably close to midnight. I went out here and I took, I had that, my last cigarette. And this what made me think about Pito Chispa story. And then I said to her, I said, well, I was holding that cigarette, you know? I says, well, you've been with me all these years. Well, you know, not like I was, you know. Yeah. And I said, but now, you know what? I need to do it on my own. I need to walk by myself now. And I was talking to that cigarette. I said, I have to do this on my own. You've been a good friend, but I need to do this on my own. I never had no cravings. And I just stopped just like that. Wow. Yeah. And if you want to look at it from a psychological perspective, you know, like I had to tell myself internally that, you know, I don't need it. But I share that story every once in a while. And then people kind of laugh at me and, you know. But in reality, it's a story based on a life experience. So that story, and even funny stories, it's how it's the mind is developing on those stories. So going back to that, if all people were sitting in that, in a circle of my age, people would tell, get an interpretation different from what I got out of it, you know. Because we're all growing at a different level. So those stories are really important to tell. Whether it's a life experience, whether it's a Nanapush story, or, you know, we tell stories in the winter, like they're important. And we're losing that. We're losing that. That's why that's part of that. That's so important when we talk about storytelling, you know. And going back to my little granddaughter in the States from reading those stories, you know. And the one that she really liked the most was the flood. And she really enjoyed that story about the flood, you know. So, you know, like we really need to, we really need to focus on that. But getting back to spirituality, going back to my little granddaughter again. My little granddaughter, you know, there's no bush around where she's. So she's never been really exposed to the bush. So when she came home here, they were spending a couple of weeks here. And I went to do a ceremony back at the power grounds here. So I asked her if she wanted to come with me. So we went and, you know, sitting around the fire there, you know. And then afterwards, the feast food, we have to take it out of the bushy. So anyway, I took that feast food and I said, come on. So she walked with me and then as we were getting closer to the bush, she said that I'm scared. I don't want to go in the bush, you know. And I had to, you know, and I shared with her. And I said, it's okay. You know, you're going to be just fine in there. I said, huh? So she held my hand as we were walking in, you know. But as soon as she got in there, further in, you know, she realized what I was sharing with her that it was safe. You know, she was okay. Like, so she was just running around over the place, you know. But that's what I'm saying. Like those, you know, that spirituality. It's, her spirit connected to, you know, what was in the bush. And she didn't get afraid anymore. And so she knew, again, it goes back to being in the blood. Like our ancestors are there in our blood. Oh, when we do stuff, you know. Yeah, that's spirituality, you know. So I think I already did that. What stories are teachings, can you share? Yeah, you did that one. You did the, did you want to add anything to your vision of education the next 10 years? Well, number one, it needs to be taught by Nishnabe. You know, and I think that's the only way we're ever going to learn is by our own people teaching us. And whether it's land-based education, whether it's even in the institutions like the buildings and stuff like that, you know, it should be taught by Nishnabe, you know, an indigenous person. Because that connection we have, you know, it's right there. As soon as somebody says something or we do something silly, we don't, like, we have, we know, though, you know. So I think to me, that has to be, it has to be taught by an, you know, an indigenous person. And even the writing of curculums, anything like that, it should be done by indigenous people. Like, I truly believe that it has to be done by our people. Anything that has to do with education down the road, it needs to be done by our people. Because we have a unique way of viewing the world, and we have a relationship that's in our blood, you know, and so to have anybody else teach that, they wouldn't grasp that, you know, they wouldn't understand it. So I really believe that that needs to happen. Anything that it has to do with education in regards to native people, it has to be done by an Nishnabe people. I don't believe either that we should, you know, record our teachings, you know, or write our teachings down. But if there's anything that's going to be done, it should be very generic, you know, not in depth, you know. And just because that's something that belongs to us and it should stay with us, you know, just like the people you fast, you know. So I don't think I'd like to see that written down I mean, you can talk about it very gentle, but not the story, you know which one I'm talking about. Like that, there shouldn't be written down. So there's oral stories that relates to the ceremonies. So that's where I would say anyways, you know. Yeah.