 You're welcome back to the breakfast on plus TV Africa. Let's say hello to our guest. Mr. Nika Ghoule public affairs analyst. Good morning, Mr. Ghoule Good morning. All right The story we're talking about today is one that we're too familiar with you know Nigerian students abducted the Boko Haram terrorist or their kidnappers releasing a video With the people abducted, you know crying for help stating where exactly they are what has happened and any ransom demands right now the students of the College of Agriculture and Animal Sciences in Bakura Who abducted on Sunday nights, you know were seen in a video asking for 350 million area ransom within 24 hours or that they might be killed by these terrorists And that they were currently at a place where all the kidnap students were buried, you know Maybe because they were not, you know rescued or that the ransom demands were not met. So, Mr. Agoule What do you think about the story and Do you think this is something that is becoming Tiring with Nigeria's media space in the frequency of these attacks? Thank you very much for this question What I think about this story is that The story is very disturbing first and foremost Let us Understand that the President of Nigeria the President of Nigeria President Obama the Bowery looked the nation in the face directly and told the nation that The kidnap in the school kidnap me The happened was he in Nigeria state Some months ago will be the last school kidnap in Nigeria And say the president made a statement. We have had several school kidnap in here after what we expect that if a president looks the citizen in the face and makes a commitment That he actually had the mind To follow to you on that commitment The president does not go to fight by this or kidnap as himself But as commander in chief he had commanders that he given orders to to carry out his intentions and he does commanders are Not delivering or the president promises to the nation One will expect the president to take action against your commanders And we are not being that because we are not seeing that Kidnap, bandit, terrorists, all sorts of criminals in Nigeria have become abhorrent and They have a community to come to schools Kidnap students and are demanding for ransom Okay, now, let us also see that There are two aspects to this the government job was to prevent that kidnapping from happening But now that the kidnapping has happened What is the government's response? What is the security agencies doing? Because if the security agencies don't collect intelligence place where the hostages are being heard and Give the kidnappers two choices that they surrender They are killed We cannot see the end of this kidnapping If the government allows kidnappers Thanks to this they were or anybody away and I demanded ransom We cannot call in they are using telephone numbers to call in this age of technology We can see points with security agencies have been put exactly the sport where that phone call is being made and We are not saying such response is from the Nigeria security agency to trace where kidnappers are and hostages Stop the place and keep them Arrest them if they give themselves up We are not going to see the end of this kidnapping This is my mind about this story that has broken Miss Agoula. Is it that we cannot or We have chosen not to because on the daily trust it says There's a daily update on the number of days that students have been in captivity activity the Salihotanko Islamic school Tejena 81 days federal government college Benignari 64 days Bethel baptised school students 46 days so How and then this is what I need to understand when we know we continue to have these things happen isn't that the government cannot Locate where these people are for 80 days for 60 days or the government Maybe just doesn't care anymore. It's maybe as you know It's also having the same fatigue with regards these kidnappings as other Nigerians are Well, it is only the government of Nigeria That can tell us the shit is it Why they cannot locate? Look the location where kidnappers are holding Nigeria cities. I think there is a case where There's this school that has had us as young as three years old I don't even know if those ones have been released now They were also taking it to captivity. It is for the government to explain to Nigeria It is unable to deal with it enough in but therefore my own perspective looking at this thing From a citizen point of view I think the government Nigeria is overwhelmed They they have they have run out of ideas And They have it is so formed To this kid happens But it is a shame that that should happen because for many years now for over a decade the difference is We taking the lion's share of Nigeria's budget year in year out we are committing the biggest allocation in the federal government project to defense our security state governments Also putting money into security If we are not getting results from all of these monies that are being spent then the government has to explain to Nigerians why The situation Is not being arrested but rather getting what? We should be spending a lion's share of our budget on education and health care and infrastructure Things like that But we are spending our budget to buy bullets and guns Our security and yet Nigerians are not secured in Nigeria of today If you have not yet been kidnapped It is because the kidnappers have not turned their attention to you Because if they want to kidnap you nothing will stop them from kidnapping you in a country that has eternal break down in security Yeah, miss Agouleh You from what you're saying, you know said the government needs to explain to Nigerians why it's taken so long while it's failing But Nigerians don't seem to be asking these questions And i'm going to go back to when we had the first major kidnapping the whole world Almost shut down because you know during the Chibok Girls kidnapping in 2014 In the previous administration But with the current administration we've seen these things happen almost every month And it doesn't seem like a lot of people care anymore And so miss Agouleh, who is the Nigerian government meant to explain to The national assembly also is not asking the Nigerian government any questions This is what happens When a situation is not arrested It becomes normalized The killings would barely be thrown now If Amrabash shot somebody You know, it's actually oh wow the whole place was coming down everybody Was you know breaking the story every news outlet breaking the story and all of that But we have allowed the situation to degenerate To a point now that killing Are no longer seen by Nigerians as anything in the extraordinary When we hear that bandits have kidnapped people Terrorists have killed people People just seen it's normal It is a shame we have got to that point where that means nothing in Nigeria And this situation needs to be arrested immediately You talk about the national assembly I personally as a citizen of Nigeria Believe that we don't have a national assembly We don't have a national assembly This democracy that we copied from the United States Has the national assembly as a check on the executive and the government The national assembly is like a bread header In a Ferrari Because the executives have been giving the poker like a Ferrari we can touch But we also need to have a break So that if the executive are trying to crash the car The bread header is used But in Nigeria the first thing that the executive does Is to disassemble the break Disassemble the break on that Ferrari and they are grabbing the Ferrari without a break The result is going to be an accident And that is where Nigeria is heading That the executive and the government ensure that they are like this We are placed in position as leaders of the national assembly We have a national assembly that has oversight Function over the executive And they are not doing their work Instead of getting the president of security or the way in teaching This same national assembly Is currently discussing a bill With jail for 15 years Families of kidnapped victims Whom the security have done nothing to release And are trying in their own personal effort To try and gather money, pay ransom and release Their people The national assembly of Nigeria is making a law We are these same families that are already traumatized Because they are all people who are being held hostage We will be jailed for 15 years For attempting to pay ransom Can we say we have a national assembly? I don't think we have any Mr Agoule, let's talk about the challenge specifically about the education sector And I want to ask you, do you think it's high time That the federal government declares a state of emergency in the education sector in Nigeria? Did you talk about the education sector in Nigeria? Yes, I am asking that in the light of these attacks on schools Especially in the northern part of the country, do you think it's high time That the federal government declares a state of emergency On the education sector It is high time Your question is up It is high time that the federal government should declare emergency in many sectors in Nigeria They need to declare emergency in the security sector Declare emergency In the electricity sector Where a nation that needs 200,000 megawatts of electricity is being given only 4,000 Which will never develop the economy We need a state of emergency in the healthcare sector Where Nigerians are just scavenging Are using state health methods to take care of their health And we need a state of emergency in the education sector, as you already said It is unfortunate that the government of Nigeria, in spite of the current threat of kidnapping Have taken no step to secure schools The government needs to take the process, for instance If the government has a central command center Where schools have been given telephone lines Dedicated telephone lines in each school So that immediately bandits begin to strike that group The phone calls are made to that central command center Security is sent there immediately, including a covert Imagine that if bandits are attacking a school to kidnap students And they see an air force jet over there The bandits will free, approaching that place, they will free But the government of Nigeria has not taken able simple steps like that Where they can put a communication system in place With every school giving a dedicated phone line To call for security response If their school is under attack Please look at cases where you can kidnap up to 100 kids There were distance of moving 100 kids away from school Even if you are putting them 30-30 pay bus That is, that is, that is like 3-4-5 buses How can you move all those children away? In such a convoy Or even these are bikes, hundreds of bikes And the security can't know anything about it Or don't just attack the bandits So the government wants to have a possibility The constitution says the main duty of government Is to provide security and welfare It seems, I'm missing in Nigeria now And it's high time the government will stand up to meet responsibilities Mr. Agoule, you're speaking about an emergency response system You're speaking of fighter jets, helicopters You know, when kidnap situations are going on That might be a lot for the current Nigerian government But I think also we might be dishonest with ourselves If we say that the Nigerian government cannot locate where these victims are Before you send a fighter jet to go help out with a kidnapping Do you think that the Nigerian government honestly Does not know where these victims are And just to bear in mind that Sheikh Ahmad Gumi Had met with some of these bandits, had met with some of these criminals Time and time again And got in feedback from them back to the Nigerian government So while we're talking about sending fighter jets Do you think that it's also possible that they can also be located? It is very difficult to say that the government cannot locate the bandits It's very difficult to accept that Not in these days of technological advancement And communication that we have Let's look at the case I think this was the case of the kidnapping in Jaws The bandits been only asking money They also asked motorbikes And the families of these helpless children Providing them motorbikes The government wanted to know the location of the kidnappers But they simply installed trackers You know these trackers that we install in our cars Where you can track the car and know the specific point If the car is moving, you can see the car moving Yeah Government could have installed trackers on those bikes Before they were handed over to the kidnappers And while the guys were handed over to the kidnappers The government have been pointing with precision Where those bikes are moving And they can go to that particular spot Round up the bandits Kill them or arrest them depending on their choice So I personally Don't believe that the government is unable to locate The kidnappers But the reason why the government is not fighting the kidnappers That is the one million dollar question I cannot answer Simply cannot answer that question Because it's difficult to understand why the government Allocating the highest trunk of the budget to defend Is unable to bring this insecurity to the arrest All right, I want us to talk about collaboration with the local community regarding this Ending this menace because it's something that we've been advocating for a long time That these bandits no matter what they have families within these communities You know, I remember a particular situation where one of these bandits came online to talk about His victories that's killing and attacking Nigerian military And he mentioned in that video that before he proceeded with his attack He first went to evacuate his wives and children who were in the villages You know, put them in a safe place before he went on to attack So that means that these bandits even if they live in the bush They have family members that live in these communities So would you say that maybe it's lack of trust in our security agencies That do not let people open up You know in terms of information sharing to the security agencies You you have you are very correct In the question you have asked First and foremost describing after the question We have been discussing that is it impossible even without the involvement of the communities For the government The location Where these bandits and kidnappers are operating and we have said It's not the government and locate these bandits The government using they have made use of by using telephones to talk Once you you you make a call The the the GSM company to tell you exactly the break station The break station that is using that is transmitting that call They will tell you exactly The location of that that one while that call was making We talked about trackers and all of that So even without the involvement of the communities The government on its own Would have been doing their own bit But gathering intelligence Using more the means of communication To locate Where these bandits and kidnappers are But have you said that the involvement of the communities is that But you really say the communities are not proficient They have lost faith In the government of security agencies And you will not expect the communities to start giving information Security agents who are not even willing or don't even have the body language that they want to attack the bandits In short case it is the bandits That are even protecting the local communities We have taken by that You know the communities It's not going to help except the government shows security of the people That convenes the communities That any information supplied will be treated in confidence and will be acted upon So far the government has not shown the ability That we convene the communities to collaborate and cooperate On the security agencies And let's look at another story that happened Take it to a year today I was listening to governor Masari of Katsina State And he was urging Katsina residents to go and buy arms Buy arms to come and defend themselves Can you see the thinking In government circles Nigeria and the elected official in the position of a governor Saying citizens should break the law To go and arm themselves and fight bandits are kidnapping that The security Of the communities is not the job for the government alone And governor Masari Is only the words of the defense minister The defense minister of Nigeria And they are shooting one or two bullets That communities you know run away Because you face that are coming from the highest authority to government It embodies The kidnappers and bandits It tells the kidnappers and bandits that the government has lost it That the government is incapable to defend the citizens So the government has turned To the defense place it is needed to defend the country What is causing everybody now to come to Nigeria and kidnap Because kidnapping in Nigeria has become big business Kidnapping in Nigeria is almost risk-free to you See the security and say you want to save yourself by attacking bandits Bandits that are armed with AK-47 rifles You can see people confront them With the army, the air force, the navy, the people in the broadcast city So Mr Agulay All right Mr Agulay we saw a story on the Daily Trust newspaper this morning That says fear grips Zamfara communities as new armed groups emerge So when I read through the story I saw that in Zamfara state There's a new group of terrorists that are preaching to other terrorists To stop kidnapping school children and stop kidnapping You know Civilians they're saying that the new focus should be government installations and government officials I want to get all you think about this new dimension of terrorism in the country If that happens, if that happens it will be a good thing If the terrorists and bandits Kinapas decide on their own volition That they want to stop kidnapping school children Other vulnerable people They want to start kidnapping army generals They want to start kidnapping governors They want to start kidnapping movements of the national assembly And even attempt to kidnap the president himself Kidnaping a bandit tree and mess that is But I think that is going to be possible because these people are well armed When you see a government moving like with a battalion It's a kidnapper that will go and risk his life So kidnap a government when you ask school children Who are defenseless in one school in one remote location That you can simply go and pack them away and get money Kidnapers, actually army generals and presidents and all of that But let's see what happens But I think we should also describe it as a good thing Regardless of you know what it means Mr. Agulif, finally I want you to speak on the silence from the president In you know the wake of these things He's just returned from the UK on a medical visit He also doesn't seem to be saying much Actually this week I believe the president's son Yusuf is getting married And so one of the papers also reports that the president will be attending the wedding of his son And that seems to be you know painful to say But it seems to be the current priority of the president himself While they're Nigerian students and have been in captivity for months I think we have lost Nica Agulif there But I think we should be wrapping up the conversation here These are not very easy conversations to have You know and mostly because of what these mean And a question you know that pretty much you know the same thing with what I asked yesterday You know how come it doesn't seem like it's a bother There's a big enough issue to anybody How come there's nobody who's really on his feet every day Thinking of you know why they have not been able to rescue People who have been in captivity for 80 days You know some of them 60 some 40 some days Why you know is nobody really really bothered you know on that level And it really really hurts Well we'll take a short break When we come back we're talking cancer in children And we're going to be joined by someone from the Dorcast Cancer Foundation here in the studio on the breakfast stay with us