 What you can think is, when we talk about content delivery, what comes to your mind? And we can structure this discussion, whether it's on synchronous, asynchronous, there should be one way of doing it. And also, like control delivery and all, you have a static control delivery. Those things need to be understood. That's true. Satish just told me that he was told that you don't necessarily have to stick to these questions. But generally, the main topping header, content delivery and usage, both, they are very pretty important issues and I think all of you have experience of that. Maybe we can start, in parallel one, we can sign up, we can start a round of introduction. So Satish is the best lesson to start because he is one of the rapporteurs. Why don't you start from there? Hi, Satish here from Microsoft Research based in Bangalore. Nice to meet you. Go ahead, you can sign up. If you should go in from Liquid, we have an English product technology with English products, so if you want to recommend, you do not want to develop it for overseas business. Liquid? Liquid. Dr. Prasad, I would like to say that each of the sessions should be designated by the teacher Dr. Shankar Srinath from Shastra University. What subject do you teach? I take natural security and I am in the School of Engineering. I am in the School of Engineering. I am in the Department of Sporting Education Department of Technology. Nice to meet you. I am very proud to be in the School of Engineering. I myself am a coach. I am basically an administrator from State Civil Services in Maharashtra. I am from Kamalayi. I am a special officer in the School of Engineering. I am in the School of Engineering. I am in the School of Engineering. You guys are the first group that did the pilot in Microsoft. Yes. I am from Gradela. I am a GFC Reported College. We fund the programs. We fund courses and information including the research and development and studies. There are a lot of courses for studies in India. And studies abroad. Yes, you need to talk sir. You didn't need to be pretty. I am not kidding. I am in the School of Engineering. I am in the School of Engineering. I am in the School of Engineering. I am in the School of Engineering. I am in the School of Engineering. Sure. I am a GFC for Industry and trinity. I am an architecture instructor from the areas of ENY or abord. Let's see. Go ahead. I think you have enough to tell us. I think you have a lot to tell us about the teaching area, which is an important part of the project. And we can see the department of higher education in this study. My name is Rini Okurov. We run a live projects platform which works in flip mode of providing a project which requires learning first and then needed to do the project. So that's what we do. We connect the industry which has projects to students who need to do projects. And of course, there are thousands of students. Go into an HP building. And you are a teacher of the department of education. I guess it's our turn to introduce ourselves. My head is over there. She's here. She's in this role. And then somebody else comes in. She's coming over here. You were the kind of talk. I am Rika Shruti. I am head secretary of department of director. We are actually functioning in this major university. I'm going to talk to the Panikhanshi and I'll be right back. I'm Tharun Arora, co-founder of the company, and I'm an investor in a cloud-based platform for researchers. No, I'm Noor Pariwala, producer of battery information science at Edo, and I have been handling the sub-track services for you, associated with the lineage as a producer. That's wonderful. So we have inputs for you, too, for some of our network. So my name is Leena Bhaji. I'm a physicist by training. I perform computing in computers. My security use in networks used to be my area, but for the last four years I've been working for a public policy think tank observer and search foundation. I went there to try to understand why is it so hard to fix higher education in India? Why is it taking so long? So it's been a really interesting learning experience, understanding policy, how it's rolled out, and what are the impediments. But I also spent three years at IIT Bombay, at Dresden, which is how I've known the face of it. So that's it. Do you have a new joining? No? No? It's the camera machine. It's the camera machine. All right. So I guess we decided that we didn't need to stick to any particular thing, but just to get the discussion going, let's try to answer this question that, you know, also because Mr. Kavith Kumar is familiar with DTH, that dedicated education channels and broadband connectivity are the main modes of content delivery. And soon 50 DTH channels will also be available. So, you know, various mobile platforms like LX, Coursera are also becoming popular. We're also establishing huge bandwidth for these services. How do we ensure that these are effectively used? What is the trade-off between coverage versus effective use? Would anybody like to go first to make a comment? Okay, so I'm from this industry, e-learning industry for the last 19 years. And the thing that I've seen, e-learning hasn't worked until now. And there are reasons for why it has not worked. One, I think the foremost reason that we want to work is student stickiness, a student motivation to learn, to learn in a completely online world. Some has not worked out in the past. Lack of face-time, teacher connect. I think that was the second reason. And third, I would say, absence of a back channel, which is through learning analytics, is moving to the program. So the courses were created once and then forgotten. So I think these are going to be top three reasons why e-learning has not worked. And precisely the reason why we are seeing a lot of excitement on the new site. So when we say move, obviously, another point that I have to mention here, coverage versus effective use. The challenge that it throws up is we are not training 10,000 students or a lot of students. Training 40 students or a lot of students and 10,000 students at one go. So these three points that I have mentioned, student motivation and stickiness, move in edX and closer-of-air, handle edX in some form through, I would say, relevant faculty lectures. People adore those faculties. That's why they go there, students go there and all. So there is a faculty pool in those lectures. They can interact and they have to grade their peers. So each closer-of-student has to come to study, grade five others, so that if they want to grade them. So there is a book for grading and that also puts in a lot of interaction on students. So that has worked on that site. But somebody from academia like to respond to that, I think there are more reasons than that. Go ahead. See, they have found two things here, some details. The second is the internet-based type. They are two different types. So the satellite is an internet type. I started my career as a assistant professor in engineering college in the BDU, where I was made the whole BDU, the ReduSite coding. BDU is the ReduSite program. I started was given as a frequency bank. It's a two-way channel. It's the only university we are given. I've been given an entire idea of two-way channels. Kerala has been given and they are not using it. They are using one way. That is, once they deliver, people at other end of the BDU, they go home. But only here is two ways. They can ask questions, they interact with them. I started my teaching career in engineering college in 1987. The ReduSite program started in 2003 after launching the satellite. I was made the coordinator of my engineering college. The university is 20, 12, 13 floors. Our university is 11, 12, 13 floors. The university is 11, 12, 13 floors. Now I am a special officer. The last part of the question is, how do you ensure that these effectively use? The big room was dedicated in the school, the chancellor, the register, the people. The room was allotted. The equipment was supplied. People made data, et cetera. But the college authorities and the faculty members did not allow the students to go and use it. That means, how do you use it? The reason is, most of the college, engineering college, what you are speaking, generating revenue to the engineering college, other related colleges. Their ranking is there, based on how many students pass out to their objective, based on their learning methods. How many pass out, how many got job, how many cleared to get, how many, how many, how many, how many. So the teachers have put pressure on how many, how many, how many. So all these programs, the colleges work from 9 to 5, where in most of the cities they have to escape, because the practice is there. Even today, I am a special officer there. We deliver content. For three months, four months, the content delivery has stopped by this effect method because the government of Karnataka, government, company, engineer, tender. Just for the reason, just for not being too overlapped, the tender has been stopped. So I am, actually in my, this group, I go to some other group, I intentionally took this group. I want to know whether I can deliver content family along with my zero people. Israel sale that, go with some company. The only company which supplies other things to the evening, and we are not able to buy them. We don't know how to, what is the MRP of that? And state government tells me that you are too tender. And they say it's a meat product. And my auditor says that, no, nothing, you have to go tender. See, these are the kind of things that we can actually make a recommendation to MRP. That there is a way that they can actually negotiate with a family of people, and fix things that are called unit rates. There's something for it. And then let's say that, you know, rate contract, that is irrespective of who buys from where they should get it within this price band, if not the exact price. So these are specific recommendations we can write. So that's what you're trying to say. The 50th channel you are telling? 88. 88. Sir? I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll. I'm interested in that. One thing, one thing is, acceptability is also required. If you open up these things, we have different platforms. We ask these teachers to teach here. These platforms are available. But see, acceptability, they are not accepting. We only hire the teachers. Why the teachers? We have to continue from the important thing. We have informed the teacher that these are the things available, but it's a, from inside acceptability. They don't want to change themselves. They don't want to add those contents. No, so then let's go step back one minute just to understand one thing. See, there, there are universities and there are colleges, right? And because the universities conduct the exams, the colleges are not free to teach what they want because it will be eventually the universities conducted the exams. So the university has a complete handle on how the students is evaluated. Students are very clever. They will only do what they need to do because that's their survival. So then if the university says that, you know, X, Y, Z, you know, and this is how we will examine and it doesn't matter which mode you teach or here's the infrastructure if you want to use it and you don't use it, you're still finding that colleges don't want to use it. Students are there. First delivery and examination. So here, first what they were discussing was the delivery of contents. Don't come to the examination. Examination is different. See, no, no. So the reason I ask this question is I want to understand it myself. What are we saying? Reaching the regular class content in online mode because, you know, the perception is that if you're going online, you're trying to teach external students. If those external students are also taking the same exam, then it's one kind of answer. If there are any different exams, it's one kind of answer. So I just want to know what... Who are the students? If the contents are not delivered, there's no question of examination. No, no. To whom? See, there are only two students. There are two customers or what? They can read the user. But students on campus or students outside? On campus. On campus. That's why half campus methods are very much in there. Use mobile, let them log in. And it should be made as a part. See, you know, NPTL, NPTL, lots of money has been poured into it. But it's now... Now, Indian students are not using it. It has very much been poured into it. No, no. So we should understand this question. This question is roughly something very, very important. See, it has brought detailed channels as well as moved platforms into the question. So I just want to make sure that we all understand the same... Yes, until the institutions, the private institutions or the institutions or the teachers' corporate are not possible. I was in... I am not changing the method of learning etc. If I can do it, I guess because they will lose... See, because in open university only 10% of the teaching is done. But how 6-7% is extra, they are going to lose. They will not allow this way of content delivery methods. And in spite of that... Yeah, I will actually answer. Yeah. And it's expedient today, that's the question. And second thing is, this online examination also the teachers protested because they will lose very rupees per student. So I give you the money. The money is separated. There are different ways to handle it. Of course, for the companies... There are different ways to handle it. So let's not... I think what is... In fact, prior, maybe... because students came up once, was saying that the learning has failed. We have not taken up. The other one is talking about the satellite-based technology because in fact, it differs a lot on the teacher. Our teacher is... In fact, from our experience, I tell you, what happens, that with the big... because in England, you know, they had the garrison and they were having some signature... And what happened, in many cases, people were complaining that we know they just speak to the camera because there is no one, the other end to talk about interactivity. And there is no way of knowing whether people are learning or not. Whereas in case of the e-learning, you can take some kind of an evidence and see where people are learning. So that is what happens. We have a two-way channel. Two-way channel. We have a camera. We have a camera. Other part is also seeing what they are doing. But then the problem is that the teacher is not able to engage the learning. So that is how you prepare the teacher. That is most important. And I think that comes as a recommendation. Can I suggest something? What he suggests is you have a lot of points to discuss. Let's say about ten points. Say that he would at least so much time for each other. So once the time is over, then even if you don't come to the conclusion, you have to move on. You cannot spend all the time because not everybody is interested in every point. So point is taken. Note it down. Go to the next one. If you have time, you can come. Is that okay? I think if you do that, then I think we need to get the chance to all. Because there are many variations. Correct. I understand. But what I am saying is you have some planning also to do. That's all I need to do. That's all I need to do. Which do I have to do? That's all I need to do. The question is that we are asking for effective use. Actually the very use itself is very low in the delivery of it. Conventionally teaching the deliverer. Still you would like to hold on saying that I am the deliverer from totally content group online or whatever the usual. The captioning by the teachers. Question is that can we make a provision in the content saying that okay, so many of us in the content should be given to the class? Yeah. Making it mandatory may be something. That's right. Yes. That's another of the... Solution you are asking. They agree the form of explanation for what they are doing. Because they have a delivery in class room. They have attendance. How many of us have that? But Kalan, you are here. So I want you... Since you guys have written this question, I want you to clarify the scope of this question. Because you see this question is very important at the stage for all of the others. If you are talking about using DTH channels, if you are talking about using new move platforms, then it's not about switching over from traditional classroom teaching into e-learning. It is about adding more students. So actually... That's what I want to say. We are still in the nascent stages. Right now, all the discussion in government meetings is can we use something like 10% of the weightage to students who go to other bodies? So we are beginning only in a small way. But we want to give... So even in the underlying ones. I'm taking... Allowing students to take courses through distance learning, moves and so on and so forth. And get credit for the process for whatever. This is the thinking and how to accommodate that. So sooner or later, this is going to come. That's a separate question. That's a separate question. Yeah. This is the definition of this question. It is so easy to not admit the source of what's... Okay, okay. Last one, okay. Okay, okay. Sorry for nodding. I'm the one who wrote this. Coverage means... That's why I ask for clarification. No. I was finishing it. Got up early in the morning to finish it. But then they were calling me. We are ready to sign the print. That's all. Coverage means one is... So for example, one is whatever methodology we have. How important it is make it available to everybody and start using it. That is coverage. That is coverage. We want to cover everybody. That is coverage. The other one is to say, I will take one, do a pilot, do a pilot, make it very good. Then I will make it available. So in that second one, what happens is you can go on doing pilots. It will never reach other people. So that is what I meant. What is a trade off? When do we break it and say, make it available? One of the things that we have, for example, we have done our gross enrollment ratio. Now what we are saying is, we have increased the number from C to 23. But quality is not good. Let us now consider quality. So we have done it. Coverage for us and then quality. So what do we do in this? That is the question. Is it okay? Maybe I should explain. No, no, no. That's fine. Because I was confused. So that's fine. So for a moment, let's... I'm sorry. Actually I understood. So what do we do in this? We get 50. Who is a digital teleporter? Regular students, when I am 95, or student, who is it for? Why should I need it? Are you saying that I have a college or a university, I have a class, somebody is teaching. Faculty is teaching students in this class or somewhere else? So we have the ticket expert here. What is this? Why not the ticket expert? I was at the ticket agency and dropped out. That's the purpose. That's the purpose I dropped out. That's the question I'm asking today. I mean I've been... So what about the rate? This is definitely the most exciting thing. No, no, no. Yeah, you have to put the digital up. The problem is if you allow for the rate to... If you allow for the rate to tower... No, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no. But the answer is that you didn't get in... Are you working to get here? We... All the same question. Today this proposal came up... I was there and it didn't show up. I do not... I do not agree with that. That's why I dropped out. So what is it? So what is it? Just make a note. Whether I... Somebody will express... I think that's how it should be made. Yeah, yeah. That's the thing I'm saying. Leave it out to the interviewers. I have not understood who it is for. No, sir. We may not know the answer. These are some certain things. No, no, no. Already he was there. He was there. No, no, no. We can't be able to explain that. So we just say that many people question this move. And then we go to the next one. We try and understand like this. My question is... The DTA has been planned. It has been installed. There must be some reason into now somewhere. Who is this DTA? It is for students. Which students? I am aware of this. Students at home probably. See, earlier it was mentioned that... Right. In a synchronous... People like synchronous. These are possibilities. Those are not full-time students. Am I right? Maybe. In that case, what are they doing at home? In that case, what are they doing at home? So that's the reason. No, that is why... They're dying for each person. Let me tell you the one. Because right at the beginning, this was not in sand. I tried to go to... We were like the university. I had to go to the university. Exactly the same thing. After two years, I realized it's not worth it. Because if students are sitting at home, they're not attending class. If students are attending class, when will there be this? So I think my feeling for you is like, you know... I don't want to make... They have a... We sat first. We didn't answer. We didn't share the... Let me answer. Try to answer first. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No, it is not. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. We got successful students, not everybody, but we... Nobody digested. That's3. I am teaching somewhere sitting at home and working somewhere but I won't add that additional bit. So I think we stop there because you know see the thing is I just want to make a general comment. See these kind of things are infrastructural. So when you build the infrastructure you don't quite know how people will use it. They will find innovative ways to use it. Let's we won't confuse the infrastructure with usage. Let's wait for, we'll figure out the. But I think the context of the usage is the topic of the session. The topic of the session. No only we come back to it because panel wants to leave and we have some difference. In fact now what you are saying when IIT Bombay guesthouse was built very senior official don't know where it was gone when it was over said why did we build such a big guesthouse? You need only two rooms and maybe there is an infrastructure part. No your point is taken about usage. We'll come back to it. In the main talk it was talked about why it's 15 because the idea was at once when it was discussed. Mechanical engineering, department here. Only a degree program in mechanical engineering has so many courses. And that means they have to be built. But completely everything people who are not regular students. So where ever we came? Then this message is not more. The message itself is good. Okay let me ask you, let me give you another answer. You questioned our synchronous education. No. You did. You said you should only do. Yeah of course. You cannot ask synchronous. Synchronous? Synchronous should be followed by synchronous. Synchronous. Synchronous. So what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is here we are not here to, if we could ask some questions we may not know the answers to some other. Right? Not able to convince you. But I think we should just let them down and move on. Because there are many things to discuss. That's all I'm saying. And I think the other. And who knows maybe after two years we may be in a position to answer this. Maybe after two years we'll say that we tried it, it didn't work out. Let's close it. So that is okay. Also, there is a little bit more. The answer is, I don't have any money involved in this. The answer is, first the teacher has to make a comparison to, suppose I'm teaching course on hybrid systems or cool operating system. I have to undergo, I have to go through that online content. But first then only I will appreciate and then I will make my students do. So we come back to that point. It's going to be taken up. It's going to be taken up. Say, how are we going to make it as you? We just have to learn that. We just use that technology. We just use that first problem. Senior professors have to make use of it. Then everything is going to be fine. If you could just allow anyone and everyone to have a solution. Because you have problems, everyone knows. And then, you know, all the solutions are there. Yeah, I think what we have to remember, what we have to remember is that M.H.R.D. is seeking inputs from academics, educators, stakeholders in education. So we have to be responsible when we give the inputs. So if we have more points at the time, we will come back for free for all. Then we can take up more points. But I'd like to move on because Kalan would like to clarify some questions. So shall we move straight to the fourth one? And then come back and do two and three. Let's do that. It doesn't matter which order. You want to do number four. Go ahead with the fourth one. So I will just say four, five, sorry. Yeah, third, fourth and third. In fact, I'm sure that Ray will agree with some of these things. Third, fourth and third. Okay, third one says that teaching 10,000 people simultaneously that is synchronous program. We have had reasonably good experience. There are some issues in that we can come back to that. Okay, now let me go to point four because actually I want to go to point five. I'm making the fourth one is asynchronous. Third one is synchronous that we have had experience. We also have experience with the fourth one which is as synchronously training large number of people simultaneously. It can happen, for example, I told you in spoken materials we are going to train, we are going to conduct 10,000 workshops this year. And so that is also okay. But then it works mainly for skill-based kind of learning. For example, asynchronous method. I'm not sure whether it will work completely, whether I can teach relativity or something like that through self-learning method. Okay, some extra work has to be done. So whatever it is now I want to talk about point number five, blended learning, where I'm proposing. Is it possible for us to blend the two, mix the two that is the synchronous method of delivery and then also the asynchronous method. And one of the problems we have in massive education is that the quality goes down. So the proposal that I'm going to make will actually make a pitch that you can increase the number and also simultaneously increase the quality. That is the reason why I'm making all this. Okay, the point is the following. How do we approach this is for whatever thing that we want to teach make available to the best extent possible videos and so on. It could be 10 minutes, it could be one hour, it could be a mix of all this, it could be learning material, whatever it is, make it available and then conduct a test for the people who want to participate in the synchronous mode. So this will definitely work for teacher training kind of people who want certificates or there are high-stakes, namely I want to get marks, good marks. So even to participate in this program I'm suggesting that there will be an entrance test. And of course we should make available the testing mechanism and so on, lot simpler, unlike gate, unlike jail for the students. It could be students, it could be faculty or whatever. So then we say only people who score, let's say at least 20% of 20% marks in this and cut off is very low, only those people will be admitted for the synchronous program. Initially make available whatever content, let them study, prepare, whatever, provide all the help, conduct a test, test could be like whatever we have been doing or what Agarwal of edX talked about, build in as much safety measures as possible. Admit only people who score 20% or more for the synchronous. Now when the synchronous thing comes, it could happen like what Professor Forteck is doing, do it simultaneously but make it completely flip classroom, make it completely problem solving because they already know enough. I mean they are fast, 20%. What I'm saying is there are many people in the synchronous program now, supposing you just open it up, half the people are not interested. Half the people come there, that is without the filtering test, you do a synchronous for 10000, it is not clear as of now for example, it is not clear how many people are really interested. My feeling is half the people, maybe one third of them, one third to half the people are really interested. As a result what happens is you have substantial number of people who are not interested in the program, participating in the synchronous program, along with everybody sitting next to you, spoiling the polytechnic, but supposing you filter them out and say that only people who pass will appear for the synchronous mode, then you can make it problem solving and for any topic of discussion, there will be 10 views. There are 100 people, you may find 20 views. So as the number increases, the same problem will get analyzed from 20 different angles, which will not happen in a small classroom. In a big classroom, people coming from many geographical areas, different backgrounds, people will present different solutions. As a result, the same problem will get analyzed from various angles. You are learning actually may get better in this mode. This is what I am proposing. This is the point number 5. So this is the explanation I wanted. So what do you think about it? Your views. Go ahead. No views. Should we try it out? No, no, no. No, no, no. So my first comment on filtering would be that the entire movement of massive and open go against that philosophy. Any criteria that you bring in, ultimately it is the merit of the program or the attractiveness or the stickiness of the program, that will get you the learners. And if the program is designed to be sticky, I think that's where the success of movement lies. And automatically, students who are not participating they will figure out in the process. But I think we should not introduce any filtering mechanism for a movement. If I can give a... No, no. Quick question. One of the things that we are trying to do, the MOOCs that, let's say offered by HDIX or whatever, they don't really look for number. I mean, they would ideally want to increase the number. Whereas, the MOOCs that we are trying to do, Professor Fortek is trying to convince, choose my vice-chancellors and so on, trying to make it part of the program, the idea is to accommodate everybody and make 100% complete. So if you say, then if you object to that, I will call this MOOC something different. What we are trying to do, you might say that you should not even attend. But I am saying that there is a need from the government's point of view. We are putting in so much effort. We would want as many people to participate. We also want to reach out to lots of people. We would want the completion rate to be 90%. So is it okay if you run a big program, MOOCs program and want it 10% complete? Is it okay or should we put in efforts to increase the number to 50, 60, 70? Let's have a poll on that. Let's have a poll on that one. Can I ask you a question? What you just suggested, why I understood you, right? 100 people join, you take a test, you drop out 80, 20, and those 20 will complete, I will call that 100%. Am I right? You take 180 drop out, 20 states who have qualified, and those 20 will complete. I will call that 100%. So I need to point out the difference. The big difference is, if you look at MOOCs, there is a lot of effort that goes in conducting it. So I am not talking about that. My asynchronous program I am talking about is not MOOCs. It's like spoken tutorial, how am I going to conduct 10,000 workshops this year? How am I going to conduct? How am I going to train 5,000,000 people? People are learning on their own. So the effort, so please don't combine the MOOCs with this. These are not MOOCs. I am not talking about MOOCs. I am talking about synchronous and asynchronous. Asynchronous is where you made the self-learning material made available. Right? It is not MOOCs. It's not MOOCs. I am not saying use MOOCs to filter, I am not saying that. But can I ask a question? Yes. See the commitment to the students to complete, if you want, if that's the goal of a maturity, that people who start should complete the course, they can have several other components like credit for the course towards the degree that you are, your certification has very strong impact on whether people complete the course today. There is a whole lot of research and publication, certification of an established reviewer institution increases chance of completion by several months. Very long. I have shared mine. Immediately, so go back. We did, for example, where we saw completion dates on our pilots, I mean all those small numbers, but it was a MOOC, it was an asynchronous course offered, you know, asynchronous view. But if you look at the standard course, completion dates of the Air Force, I think two things work for us from what we saw today. One is that way, providing incentives in terms of, you know, certification or alignment with the students, gets a student to direct buy-in, and he or she puts in an effort, he sees the result of the exam. Number two, I think we saw, and I think that's one of the questions here later, is that engagement with the students even through the course, I mean, using social media or whatever, it is, you know, I like students of the month or the week to think of that. Students feel an involvement of the process and not just, you know, a bit of face-off between now, and you and me. Let me share my experience. Let me share my experience. What happened in a big way when we started our Flexi-Learn program, it was not to get the MOOCs only. So we made our course material available, and with lots of enthusiasm in a day or two, we had more than 60,000 registrations. But at the end of the time, they wanted, all of them wanted, that we wanted a degree. That was what happened. I mean, in that sense, it's not a MOOC then. So it's becoming, in fact, a kind of a e-learning platform. If I can get right, what would be the sad goal? We started somewhere with the kind of concept of MOOC, where you try to greater out the students for learning. And ultimately, when we landed in and asked them, the students are downloading and then repeating themselves. Spoken. So what is this, exactly? Whether the quality, by filtering the students, ensuring quality in spoken, as soon as we are there, the student is just downloading, then we do not filter anything. Anyone can study and anyone can read. Before he answers, you need to think. Those who think that, the way Thandan said that, you know, you... So how will they answer the poll? Anything combined with those labels? This is on the point. I think he just supports it. Just one second. So the product that we run is a live project platform, where we go and connect with the quality of the product and tell them that, we work with a flesh out project along with their academic schedule, which is a twist on the BJ project format. You're actually doing it along throughout the year versus you're doing it in your summer. Students actually attack smaller problems. They are fleshed out in a manner that's doable and feasible for the students. However, it's amazing, even in the products that are coming from really good companies, students are dropping out from those projects. We realize that there was a gap inspired by being from good colleges. We had lunch and do projects. There were second year students. In our hands, we had not given them the project to buy us the test. But then we did something, a firm analogy to what he had said. We opened up a very large set of people and told them that you have to finish this particular short program and then take a test. And then you can do the project. It was a sudden, higher success rate for the projects and completion rate and students are understanding what's the major difference of the project because you have a really interesting, very short program. Not more than like five hours, it was a very short program but the commitment, the learning and hence obviously for the company a better ruin and project completion was higher. That is precisely what I'm saying. That is precisely what I'm saying because the synchronous program or even for MOOCs for that matter I'm classifying this into two parts. One is something that we can do with almost effortlessly allow the people to express their views and so on. Then we say that look, of all of you only the serious people can come to the next level that's a lot of work. We will engage with you because you have shown interest. So the filtering thing I'm talking about absolutely minimum because what happens is I don't know if you know, I don't know how many of you are from private enterprises. We run mainly with government initiatives we conduct QIP programs we conduct CEP programs take away points and so on. Half the people who come there are not interested. They come only for certain reasons and that reduces the overall standard of the whole course. That is the point. And should we not do something about it make the entry barrier absolutely low, very low if you don't like 20% make it 10% something self learning material argument, what will you do with the QIP program? That's a different thing. So we can ask. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Don't put the slides from morning. I think the I don't think that. Thank you. Everybody signed right? I think circuit scores. That's just different reasons. I don't think that's the I don't think that's the I think that's a I think that's the So I think I think I think that's the I think that's the I think that's the But I also want to ask one more question. See the effort is very large the first time you run the time you run the course, but it starts to improve with time. So, you know do we really match it with the first step at the cost or do we match it with you know take a much longer term view. So, my question which is raised as to what is the philosophy of a book or whatever edition is that you want to know what is the basic philosophy of now you want me to take it to a large as large section of the student problem is possible and knowing fully well that you know a percentage of them will not be interested, but hopefully over time as model increase and engagement increases as we find better mechanisms that is what we are talking about in this slide. You know they will give more students will be drawn into the into the pool or do we consciously filter it you know by intent and say this is the only student that you want to be able to do that. So, I was going to get into that question first before we really you know. So, the point so the my feeling is that if we unless we give some guarantee of quality and so on one of the impediments that is going to come in accepting such large courses from the university themselves you yourself will come back and tell me this course is not effective our students should not join our classroom instruction is not better. I am saying here so I am saying I have a methodology to ensure even the mass training also is as good it may even be better. So, let us have the assessment. Manish there is a program for the Binspilani. So, let the assessment be very strong. And I will stamp on that assessment that is the fair way to do it. Since you raised moop was not the synchronous as a presentation. Since you raised moop suppose you want to have a one million students join and finally maybe fifty thousand students complete. What is the problem? No there is a problem. There is a problem because every university I mean right now if you if I go to any talk to any director of technical education or any vice chancellor. He will say the biggest problem I have is 40 percent of the people are failed. That is my biggest problem. No, we are not back to the criteria. No, please. They are failed. No, when this company you are actually that the social space gets very big. Moop is for people who are not in regularity. Mainly, originally it was device for that. So, if they join this fifty thousand people thirty thousand people they are the ones who are very very they would not have got even if they are the vice chancellor. No, I am saying that I am talking about a very different scenario that is going to emerge in India. We are making we are allowing every student to take up to ten percent that such a rule is going to come. If that is coming it is such a thing. Why don't we be open minded? Why don't we be open minded? No, sorry. So, do you want people to say as a result move is not acceptable for our regular course? Would you want that to emerge? No, that is not going to emerge. No, that is what I am saying. It is going to be strong. As a result they will fail at the end of one semester. So many people will fail. No, sorry. No, what are you saying? Can I understand? So, you are going to be the organization. Just for information. So, sorry. Let a vice chancellor in this room tell the same thing, express the echo in your sentiment. When it is an energy accident, I do not understand the market budget. It is to sell a product. When it is like say if it is a company. No, let us not worry about the whole thing. I do not even mention the whole thing. Five, three, four, five. Nobody got in second time. Let us not worry about the whole thing. I am good. Five, three, four, five do not ever move. I am good. So, we are actually initiated saying move. We are not going to move. Five, three, four, five. Okay.簡單 speaking. That is why this is my cut-off. That is what I say. I am no problem with that. Okay, good. So, I am saying that is all I say. That is all I say, that is all I say. Can I say. I do not do that, even today, IIT Bombay any IIT, any institute says this is a cut-off, go ahead. What is the difference? Very good. There is no problem. That is why I said. No, we have a problem. That is the reason why I said. We wanted to do it in a much more, lot easier way. JEE means its preparation for five years. What is the difference? There is a difference. This test may happen on the time. I say about one to ten percent. That's the difference. It's obvious that you are the individual. Okay, good. It's a long time here. Usually we don't divorce. Why this is called a divorce? This is called a divorce. This is called a divorce. Every person is diagnosed. Every person is diagnosed. Can you finish the question? This point is basically for delivery. To whom to deliver? No. What will happen after delivery? No, the issues have become 4th and 2nd have become 3rd. The issue here is that delivery usage. We have to get whom to deliver. And how to deliver? No, it's not like that. After the delivery. And just think about another thing. Let's go back to the BTH. Let's go back to the BTH. What is the proof? This proof is meant for delivery. This proof is meant for delivery. One second. But think also. Because we are always talking about the learning learner side. Have you thought about the poor teacher also? What do you expect from the teacher? What is the context? What is the delivery? We are expecting the teacher to deliver through DTA, through e-learning. No, no, no, no. Don't miss the point. I am saying, it's not important, right? What Kandan said. What Kandan said. That any synchronous teaching can be done. I am going to end this. I am going to end this. Just try to understand. I think all of us are doing it. My question that is coming. Why are we talking about why are we not also talking about convergence? Technology converges. In fact, there is a single delivery point in multiple formats. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. So, we left that. Let me just go move on. Question number two. This is pretty important. It says that, is there a need for proper institutional and system level strategies for delivery of content and its usage? Right. Question number two. Despite multiple delivery channels, actual usage of high quality content is somewhat limited. Is there a need for proper institutional and system level strategies for delivery of content and its usage? Right. Despite multiple delivery channels, actual use of high quality content is somewhat limited. What is the reason for that? Why is it so? No, it is talking about institutionalizing the whole thing. Why are you putting institutionalization? Why are you putting institutionalization? Why are you putting institutionalization? Why are you putting institutionalization? It is saying that just put it there and say why is it, then answer it. Answer it. Why does it happen? And then answer it. You are now putting an answer in your mouth. No, so these questions were made up by Kannon and Ryan. So I... Sure, it doesn't matter. No, so if you want to paraphrase the question and answer it, you can also go ahead. But anybody else before I give it back to... No, no, don't give it back to me. No, you don't want to comment. I would say this doesn't happen if we can ask ourselves and reason out why does it happen. There was a time when in the IIT there was a time that attendance was not compulsory. Correct. We were 21st in attendance in the IIT. Right? 21st in attendance in the IIT. I remember one of these guys who went to an interview at the IIT and they asked, you know, your attendance is falling. So the guy said the teacher is so bad. Right? And in later years attendance was made compulsory. So I think this is sort of an analogy. By the way, attendance is not compulsory anymore. Oh, it's against... I'm sorry, I'm very... I think you're making an important analogy. Right, so if you're going to use that that's what you're talking about, institutionalizing it. I think students attend classes where irrespective of the teacher saying I'm not in attendance. Students will come into those classrooms. Because we are human beings driven to I mean, at least the best thing to do is drive to learn. So even at a delivery channel if the quality, like Manish said, stickiness, if the quality, the way in which the whole thing is portrayed and the quality of the MOOCs. For example, in case of MOOCs earlier there was no quizzes every 10 minutes or 3 minutes, whatever. So there's a whole lot of delivery elements related to improving the quality of just like a teacher can make a difference. So you can, in the beginning, to get people into the classroom, bring in some institutionalizing like credits and making compulsory in the classroom as improvements of why a MOOC kind of platform, but over time the stickiness is not going to be there if the product is not good. Students can still say, I won't attend that class and I'll just take the exam. I think you're right. That are coming, which are not sequential starting with introduction, discussion it's not that much. So exactly that point is right. But we have to engage the people and then we have the technology. But what we are doing is exactly the same. I think we have too much of that blind channel vision about you. So that's the precise point. Why are we here? We're here because we have to give short-term and long-term recommendations to amateur. So let's think about it. For example, MSR Athena, Microsoft Athena, that's an example of someone trying to make MOOCs a little more interesting. Interesting. So if we are trying to do a useful thing in this session, it's our wisdom that we are doing for the amateur. We may give a little the result of this. This result may be misleading, totally. It's not pre-conceived. Pre-conceived. Yes. And maybe some people have created these things then. But let's give a very basic thought. Synchronous and asynchronous. We should not hide. This is not good. This is not good. Both have their meanings. For synchronous, it's very difficult. Do or celibacy match, no? Do or curriculum match delivery, that means it can never happen in India. Six or nine universities and so much of mismatch is there. We cannot bring the same platform July 2nd, this course will be conducted. It's not possible. But it's not meaning at its own. Synchronous is also important. Maybe we can blend it. It's very important. Let the students and teachers go through that and let the time in the classroom be used for that discussion purpose. Let's not criticize them. Synchronous is not good. Let's give them the method. How it should be used in them. Perhaps the government will be more happy if we have solutions. Let's understand it's an experiment. When Edison invented the first day a lady asked, what is the use of it? He didn't know the answer. If anybody is asking what is the use of it I will not be able to answer. It's a place for highway. We have created. What van will run depends on the view. What you will put in the van, buffalo or goats or gold you it's an academic understanding. We are sure we will not be having answer in the first day itself. It's part of the system. But we have to understand if somebody is connecting rivers in India what's the meaning? If somebody is connecting roads in India what's the meaning? If somebody is connecting satellites in India what's the meaning? Two things I can tell you. One is costing for student. We take only 2,75,000 students in the country. Assume only 15 of the students are going to use it. For a year the government is going to spend for one channel for the student it's 8 rupees and 75,000. For one channel, one year. It's a midday scheme one paralytic biscuit, one day cost these are the systems that have to come. Why DTH? 850 channels are there in the country. You ask the SAR market they have 3 objectives to inform, educate and enter in. Education comes second. Information there are 115 channels for the news. Rest are informed education but known for education. Satellite was the first news project delivering in the first 43 years put in India. It was the first country to use satellite for education in India. Today we have no use of it. What is the use and how to use it? This is not a question. These are the next forms. They are fast-fitting. They are reaching everybody 67% population today have television. We don't have to create hundreds of crore films by PC. Every house has got it. Mother will say to the child I will watch the program because that is going to get you some employment. That is the way the society will change. Let's give a suggestion to the government how these platforms that we are running are going to be used. There are a lot of private content and price content. As I sat in this content I realized there are so many police entrepreneurs and business who are not even aware of this and they don't latch on their content to the highway and then students can take a choice and I want to learn this concept using this content versus that content because it sounds much more exciting than the other one. That kind of tech is missing. There is a divide. It is not kind of routine. I just want to close this. What I want to say is that Professor Parker is teaching 10,000 teachers synchronous at 300 centers. If he had DTH he would probably have... If we find out nothing to criticize Mr. Singer and his team they spend 70-80% of the money in the transporting these people there. That money to be saved in DTH. Why do we need to transport people? Why do we need to transport them? Let them stay at the home. Let them go back in time. That's all. He has 10,000. He has 3 years, 1,50,000. 1,50,000 in one day. That's all. I want to get back to you. You believe it. So let's go into those glasses in that way and find out what to do. So in that spirit I want to start another different thread because Uma is here. She said she is part of the Saksha portal. Now I want to... The private sector has a lot of very good content. I think we need to think about how there is content everywhere. People say there is no content but I don't agree at all. There is a lot of content. There may be gaps and there may be much smaller amount of content in Indian languages than there is in English. But at the end of the day we have to find a way to gather all this content together tag it somehow make it available to a student that if I am looking for a B-tech second year level course in mechanical engineering I should be able to find that on Saksha. Do you want to comment a little bit on what Saksha is doing now so that we can give solutions? Saksha has been doing it. When we started it was meant for K-20. We started in the school level with the course content content. And then what happened projects were happening so that consolidation level happened. The projects are hosted and everyone is happening separately then spoken to in their own server so what is needed now is actually building them together and making it available that's what we are learning also from JS. So there is a plan in fact that now we will be separating them because what was happening in Saksha was more of an administrative mode related to the NMEI system. So two different websites are coming one will be just administrative for NMEI system which has the M-I-E-S and everything the other one will be something for the teachers and students also. So Saksha in future will be something which will be a content industry where we put everything together and in fact what you are talking about that's what we are talking about. In fact in the meetings also we have been discussing we go in for some standard metadata and all the things that we have we can relate and mapping with curriculum is a big job that needs to be done so that it's in the process. What we will be doing in fact. But it should take 5 years. I think my biggest complaint about NMEI is that we are educated from ICT how it works. If we have keywords we have metadata that will solve the issue. So if we have to make compulsive content let me tell you three words let me tell you the metadata this is the biggest asset otherwise once you create a content and he doesn't look into this that is one of the black nobody will look into that nobody will get ever traced the information which you come from us make it compulsive the board contents NMEI is going to ask him to give you more metadata metadata and it has to be done automatically and there is no problem we need to put in the reporting. Just one point there when we talk about massive amount of content just a comment on content I agree that there is a lot of content content is top class 100% quality content so the need of the R is to put this content into a Wikipedia type of a platform type of a platform where community and people from all walks of life can comment on content and let the best content come out by itself I think that's the need of the R putting content that has not worked in the past in a newer platform may not work I think that one she said that so the suggestion for that is the following that you have ratings and Wikipedia type of platform let community rate it and create the content nobody reads it or I get a rating of 0 that content Wikipedia type of format bad content moves out automatically I think that's an important thing that maybe we should even elaborate the elements of tagging and certainly there should be rating and there should be free flowing comments that are captured so that that's all the time right so let's do Amazon we kind of find related content so it should not be difficult now today we have usage models which can need to be absorbed into Satish will you just write that down that's a specific recommendation I had lunch in the morning when I was talking about pedagogy 200 courses undergraduate civil, mechanical, mechanical, electronics, computer science engineering science discipline 200 courses have been developed under this project mechanical engineering each course is a 40-hour duration NPTEL or something else pedagogy project pedagogy project most people don't know about it each course is a 40-hour duration let me call the course is not course it's 40 lessons equivalent what this project does if you say a name of a course you just mentioned a course the course objective is written and course is divided into modules and images module objectives are written at unit of unit using blues, taxonomy and all reggae having done that the fact is to be able to achieve this objective it is assured there will be self learning first assumption is self learning then the references what you call the content tag is provided the faculty, a team of three faculty members will write down to be able to learn this lesson lesson number one if you go to this book, you read this book it's not necessarily content in the website it's not necessarily content it may even be a book this chapter, this page or this page to this page or this website or this thing the best ones chosen by faculty of the most NITs and NITs are involved or with the learning of bigger than so they prepare that it is done by three people it is reviewed by two other more people and if you have two other senior faculty from all over the world then that references go if you look at this slide and give you a reference at the moment it's not open because it's full of all kinds of content all that is done then it gets changed as you just said then after that whether somebody is actually able to achieve that or not by reading on their own or in groups there are test problems given large number of test problems given the answers are given faculty can allow the students to look at it or use in the class and then two page summary is given 200 courses 8000 hours 200 times 40 and each of these curriculum document it is not an document curriculum document is about 400 pages 1 each curriculum document so what we use in the half page is 400 pages of it because the problems are given the solutions are given references are given the best part of it is anything which is not good it gets dropped out and committed from the whole world it is not just the faculty anywhere in the world it gets dropped out and the best survival better than that the students themselves the future students will say no this is a better example no this is a better site automatically it's up so that's what you are just basically saying but the differences is not tagged it is clearly marked by experienced faculty who has been teaching the subject recognize the best faculty in the country team of two or three so it's not anybody picking it but it's time within two years the faculty who originally developed it if it's successful now this material will remain it will be replaced by better one so now we have we have about 20-25 minutes I want to ask you people about this list we don't necessarily need to stick to this list we can look at other things so is there any burning issue that anybody would like to comment on in this context Madam moderator at 8 o'clock we want some very concrete suggestions to come out of this no but you see what we did this is only a very illustrative so content delivery and usage so we are trying to focus on that so go ahead I think it's just a comment the entire thing the goal of learning I think is ultimately personalized learning for all we can move in that direction I think we are in the right direction that you have personalized learning path for each learner ultimate goal I think with MOOCs we have taken a step in that direction where we are saying that yes maybe for 10,000 students there are some different paths not same paths but at least they can talk to their peers they can do it at their own time they can do it at their own pace they can also look at other materials on the next so I think we are moving in that direction the conception of MOOCs it started way back in 2005 or 6 with C MOOCs it was called connective MOOCs right so an expert teaching another expert who is teaching another expert that topic builds on itself but obviously that is the university system so it needs structure and stuff so they transform into I would like to add to what you are saying Mr. Pawanagarwal asked for recommendations I want to say the following there are many things that are fundamentally different in India than it is in the US first of all they are very network savvy penetration 85% class you know faculties technology savvy and all of that so worldwide people can take most of us second time learners what I call second third lifelong learners are taking their MOOCs but in India what I am understanding is that government is trying to assess whether spending on technology can help them reach education to many more students than they normally can for in that scenario I think and also raise the quality so you want to extend reach and quality in that scenario the thinking of universities and their relationships with their colleges becomes very important because one subject we touched on is the issue of why should the student be motivated to study if he or she doesn't get any credit for that why should the faculty teach it if he or she doesn't get is not allowed to evaluate so I would like some of the academics here to comment on the university college relationship the lack of autonomy the lack of freedom to evaluate the students and what that has to say for online courses what that has to say for the behavior of students in terms of taking online courses and dropping it passing through it and so on I think I did state recommendations actually many of these areas we cannot have straightforward recommendations all alone changes in the area of content delivery have to happen at various layers and we may not be able to get answers all answers in one conference so even if we basically see what are the sub-issues in the broad topic of content delivery and how sub-issues have been further analyzed to identify what are the key challenges addressing that roadblocks of what are the opportunities and so we move forward through these events we move forward when we put together I mentioned a Mumbai statement so we should say that we have thought through it very carefully and content delivery these are the various issues which have to be at the policy level at the institutional level at the regulatory level etc etc so some such statement would be helpful correct so we have been trying to state objective and so on so whether we are taking the course on online mode or regular scene instructions it should be re-formed so the MHRD should see that it is done like for example is Karadaka Pletopunasti gives two MBA program which is online and usually that online is not a problem push down we need a policy on degree is a degree whether they take it online half-line or some other blend degree is a degree when they talk about recommendation they will have to deliver he can't answer on behalf of the government any other how about the freedom of teachers in fact people who are staying here have taken part in development 99% of the faculty members have not taken part in development they don't appreciate so without training the teachers there is no point of talking about delivery whenever you want to create a substantial change in the behavior there are three different kinds of people one is the early adopters they don't care they just want to try and they are the ones others watch and wait and they are the ones there are others who watch and wait and the third are the ones who are the the pessimists who think they are going to fail now to get in the watch and wait I don't believe the pessimists ever really come around to it or they do this for a long time later the watch and wait people are normally for example people who did the program you know got a better job or people who did the program got better grades so it's not for the people who do the program it's more for people who don't do the program that you know this is really different so if you know a system can give a grade up it's not even equalizing a grade up for having run the program through you know online means you really kind of get probes of people going that way whenever something is mandated yes there is acceptance but when that goes beyond just mandate but incredible or reasonably higher form of reward you will see people moving towards that especially people sitting on the fence and they are normally a large middle doctor also we can keep the assessment saying the assessment that happens in a normal lecture class and the MOOC and you proctor that MOOC assessment still what's the issue in the same degree as long as you have passed that assessment so you already said some eaves so I think this adoption as far as the products are concerned definitely they are going to add on to the quality of the free change but whether any of these components would be a compulsory part of the curriculum there is a big question mark because acceptability of all these products need to be debated first of all the awareness what I can say is that first these products awareness has to be created and then these need to be accepted at the various levels maybe first at the good of studies level then at a council level so it's a long way to whether it should be some credit can be given there are certain issues in that but definitely what my perception is that these products are some kind of add-ons because we have seen as far as Rajasthan is concerned faculty is a big issue so it does add-on it does add-on in the form of remedial kind of teaching and things like that but how much credit and how do we make it as a component the valuation system in the existing curriculum of the industry there is a lot of let's say you have yes definitely but even in AICP model curriculum you have a scheme of audit forces right so that is the first initiation I think in kind of non-credit or audit kind of thing where there are for example AICP says that 20 percent should be given to the humanities force now that is not the it is not the part of the curriculum so if you have these kind of add-ons I think it could be a great value addition to the technical education now what are you asking ma'am she was asking about flipped classrooms one of the ways to get students to actually get an audit they can definitely implement in the form of pilot have an experimentation but to make it directly if you want a suggestion from the university that what is the level of except as the so I say definitely these are not experimented but I think it has to be a serious approach but no technology education technology intervention will work if it is not very well integrated with the entire pedagogy at the end you have to go slow in the end this thing has to be completely integrated with the overall delivery you cannot keep it as an add-on the more you make it as an add-on it becomes an add-on load for teacher it has to be one whole chunk which has all the components of technology built into it and the teacher is effectively that is what I was saying single platform delivery and first of all gradually with taking teachers along administrators along that is where it will find right just one minute I will be close this point sir I want to ask you for a clarification what you are saying is that AICT in its role as a regulator can help the acceptance process enormously by saying that you know whatever 20% of the courses can be run online is that what you are saying see if you change your curriculum what are the kind of lines for example for example the IPR these courses are not being taught in the grade so if you have this kind of delivery system where these courses can be delivered to the students very good way okay so courses that are not presently being taught yeah yeah go ahead when you write the courses you are writing some good chapters at the end of the chapters we are doing reference material the best suppose one thing we can make mandatory from the UGC AICT is gone that suppose there is a course say on construction design if there is any content developed by AICT there should be mentioned that includes that we have referred that questions may come from that see once you list of online materials I think that could be that is the best that is the best and indirectly we can impose them that is the the great the online courses developed by AICT or anybody can be given as a reference in the syllabus exactly all is a reference textbook the UGC can tell that it should have this close then once is given as a reference material then there may come the exam may exactly that is not the whatever the project is doing they give you the structure whatever it is and they give you the reference material that these are the lectures you should be doing so that you have you have the learning then you have first initiative we can take two out where that course is there has to be interactive between the NME and ICD projects but it will be possible it will be possible that is the so that is related to what he said so any other last comments from anyone 6.15 6.15 it will start moving but I don't think it will move right away if anybody has any last comments Mr. Pradeep we will assemble now we will just sit and try to find out we will be writing the report we will make it 5 minutes just now would you like to so Satish do you want to say some of the main things that you have captured not in any case I think we started out in this current month the trade off between coverage was effective use there was some news like industry that e-learning is not because of the few reasons that should be thinking there was an academic perspective on why existing technology was not really going through because it was not enough money from the local administration and the faculty etc from the Sakshar perspective the future plays a very big role the future training becomes a very important parameter in the moving and there is a repeated friend saying that any technology interventions like these should be made as part of the curriculum in different ways possible to make really adoption to increase adoption then there was a concern raised as to what if this technology is existing classroom students or is it a use of this for right now not being touched by the current academic landscape so there was some response to that saying that for example one scenario could be people like ICFI students who are taking correspondence courses or open university students could not be brought as part of the ecosystem by these things also the educational teaching can be done and the use of all of these then the discussion was on the question 345 which I think was initiated where the idea was how do you increase scale and increase quality of teaching so there was a proposal of using a filtering process by an exam with a relatively low bar for qualification and then use synchronous modes of teaching to the filtered set of students we never did the poll on that so we don't really know there was a concern there was a concern raised that any filtering goes against the basic philosophy of modes of online teaching etc and there was also a point about the need to have adequate mechanisms for student motivation and engagement like certification for students in the same team that we did also engagement by social media to make sure there was interest and dialogue there was another discussion on question number 2 which is there was a point made that it is difficult to get the perfect content available right at the start and the point was made by him saying that let's get the delivery mechanism in place and let's worry about what goes in and how will that impact outcomes later I think we should first make recommendations or think about what kind of delivery systems need or will make sense in the current scenario experiments like ETH etc we'll need experiments on delivery channels if we made and corrections can be made if we go long on content other discussion said how do we get all the content that is there between government and all private entities made available in relevant ways to use Saksha this would be an attempt to get the solution yes but for all content for all content creation for all content creation mandating processes like indexing and meta-tagging will make key factors commuterating mechanism is also an important structure even Indian unique circumstance the dynamics in universities and colleges with LMT autonomy is a key role in success production of online education consistent certification and recognition mechanisms between online and classroom teaching audiences will also get a role online methodologies probably should be implemented in a phased approach in the universities even the challenges and applications from faculty especially in the curriculum will make it easier to get bind from teachers, students and administrators that's the point can you have any additional point they have it you're okay so now Umar wants to give you another point yeah the dialogue is just wild thinking can we also think about institutionalization can we also think of maybe as some sort of a consortium where we move together that resources are there like we have for industry consortium or like that can we think in that direction so that whatever the efforts are that are happening we can then the ICP is a mission it will not continue how do you sustain it for the life of so you need to institutionalize that so you have to have a sustainable model also please that is very important so I mean just I was wondering when the discussion came going on so let's have a opinion on that quite quickly you mean for creation of a company no not creation of a company it's happening very quickly the consortium for delivery of a company the offering program is like like the mentality of a philosophy kind of crowd sourcing kind of a thing where the input that comes should also get to collaborate for an industry you can make a body also push yes practices what is working abroad what is working here what you can reuse what you can't now I think there is a need for such body for such body it's a function and organization it's not connecting with the industry it's just a portion it's not a portion it's a project so what she's saying it's just a repository so there is a very important point she's making it's definitely important it's a repository so there is a very important point you have to ensure continuity of that something whose job it is to ensure continuity and I think that's important we have to share this it's such a good program it's such nice things come up alright so with your permission shall we close it for now and then we can sit down and tie up all the inputs we have to run it we have to run it we have to run it impossible discussions that's your good yes that's good thank you