 You're welcome back. Right now we're going to take this short moment that we have to look at improving intelligence and stopping attacks on military police. And we're glad to be joined this morning by Reverend Hayab, who will be, who is the president of Cannes in Kaduna State. Good morning and welcome to the program Reverend. Thank you very much. Good morning to our viewers and morning to you in the studio. You may want to also add that Reverend Hayab is a security expert. Yeah. Okay. Well, I missed that. Well, it's good to have you. I have experienced this thing that happened in River State. River State DPO was attacked and killed by cultists. But the experience I had also was a classmate of mine who was serving somewhere in the southeast was beheaded. And his head was kept on his body and they wrote there that he's too troublesome. He troubles the bandits so much so that they will deal with him. Now bandits can have their frontry to say things like that about security operatives. They can attack police stations. They can attack military formations. They can attack anything and anywhere. And right now we're talking about improving intelligence and all that. First of all, why is it that intelligence gathering in this country seems not to be top notch? Yeah, thank you very much. I have said this several times and I'm going to repeat. First, we have people being recruited into our military and intelligence agencies that in the first place didn't have interest or desire and willingness to be there. They actually just opted for that because there is no job. So because there's no job, they didn't go there to showcase their talent. They didn't go there to improve their talent. They didn't go there to show that they are capable of doing all they want is something that will end them living. I've said this and I want to repeat that sometimes if you look at most of those who serve, like the SSS, the police, CIB and all other groups, their desire is really not to secure the country. Their desire is not to have the country come out of this security or insecurity challenge, but their desire really is to be closer to a VIP, to guard a VIP. So when they are recruited after training, they will be lobbying friends, they will be lobbying senior people. Can you connect me? I want to be the ADC or I want to be the attachee to one commissioner or to one minister or to anybody who is holding any office. When you have people thinking like that, then you know that intelligence diagram will be poor because the job will not be about gathering intelligence. The job will simply be about looking for food, finding opportunities to make money and nothing more. And then I have also talked about the manner we deploy intelligence. We deploy security people in Nigeria. We still have not really done what is right. So when you have that, how can you improve intelligence? I give this example every time that when you think of one bank in Nigeria, just one bank, they do advertise and tell us that they have 1,200 branches. And you know very well that in this 1,200 branches, there are possibly a police or two police in each of the branches. That means the Nigerian police is short 2,400 policemen just to banks, which they have no one reason to do that. The banks that the bank is supposed to own her own, recruit people seek her security and get the police to train those security and then they post them to the different branches. But the banks do not want to do that. The banks prefer to take from what is supposed to be used as a nation to secure their bank and there is nothing they are remitting to Nigerian treasury for those services. Clearly they just gratify the DPO, gratify the, improve intelligence. And the Niger security men you have are posted to where they are supposed not to be. I just use one bank. You can multiply it with 10 banks. You can multiply it with 5 institutions or 10 institutions and you keep going. Then you realize that when we are trying that there is insecurity in Nigeria, we are really not being honest to ourselves because we are the architect of the insecurity. Just the system in Nigeria, does it permit what you suggested just now that private security outfeeds be equipped in such a way that they can guard banks, maybe carry guns and do the things that the policemen in the banks do as well? No, not against licensed firearms and the banks have the money to acquire one or two because the simple thing is that they are acquiring a licensed firearm and there our inspector general of police and his men can track and note this firearm belongs to Access Bank, GT Bank, UBA or this because they license it. So if our laws permit private individuals to have licensed firearms, it's not in our law that stops institutions from having it. After all, the firearm will only be used within the premises of the bank not to be used outside the property. The man is not taking the gun to his house, is not taking the gun to anywhere to his farm. He simply comes to the office, sign and is released to him. Once he leaves the office, the next person taking the gun from him is the one signing to receive it from him. So there is nothing in our laws that stops him. Don't forget, our laws even permit sub-defense but we are talking about firearms and there is nothing in our laws that is against this. I have confronted one of the ITC in Nigeria in a very serious security meeting and I explained this, they don't agree that truly this is also an error. But you see, the money that is being made to CPs and big shots is the money that they don't want to compromise and stop it. If not, there is nothing against our laws in what I have said. Alright, so President Nubu has made it clear that security fixing the insecurity problem in the country is one of his major focus and we've also had tough words coming from security heads in the country. But in spite of all of this, insecurity persists. In fact, new ways are coming up on a daily basis, almost on a daily basis. You hear of new things happening, people being attacked on their way to work. In our office here, we have experienced a lady on her way to work. The vehicle she entered, she was beaten, promeled, eyes rubbed with a bunny key and all of that early in the morning. And that's just one of many cases we've heard. Clearly, there is need for new strategies. Being a security expert, what new strategies should this administration be looking at that they have not been looking at that Nigeria has been overlooking because we can't keep reeling out the problems and all the challenges. We need to move forward. How can you have a secure community or a secure society or a secure nation? Well, the larger percentage of the people in the nation are jobless. They are hungry. They are poor. You see, sometimes we talk about security. I think it is something you can have police everywhere, as long as there is poverty, as long as there is joblessness, as long as there is poor leadership, insecurity will continue to grow. Because by nature, the human mind or the human life needs to eat, needs to meet of certain needs. And if there are no ways to get this need, the temptation is to find an easier and fastest way to do. And that's why crime is growing every day in Nigeria. And those people who commit crimes in the first place start at first. Simply let them steal a bone, let them steal. But gradually they are knowing that people can resist them when they want to steal the bone, so they have to use force. They have to use weapons to eat at their victims so that they will know that they are serious. And then criminals also have realized in Nigeria, not just in the north, but actually in every part of Nigeria, that bandits or kidnappers are making huge money within a short time. Someone who couldn't afford 2,000 naira in the morning, but because he can kidnap someone who has 50 million in the evening, or who can have 50 million in one week, and he has never been to any office. And so they chose that pattern of criminality as the way of making money. You see, it's not just because someone hates somebody or someone is angry with someone or someone wants to kill. In fact, the point is that there is serious poverty. Then you talk about the lack of good structure that can address insecurity. The lack of action by government to whoever is arrested should be brought to good and brought to justice. So when you put all these things together, you find that insecurity keeps growing because when people know that they can commit a crime, they can do evil, and no one will arrest them. Even if they are arrested, the seriousness to investigate what exactly they do is not there. Even if they are taken to court, if they have a good lawyer, the lawyer will just look at loopholes in some of the charges against them and they will be freed because there is no judge that will just send someone to prison because, even I have said the man is a thief, or the man is a criminal, or the man is a wardrobe. Where is the evidence? Those putting together the evidence don't do it well. Don't do it enough to prove their case beyond being a bulldog. So criminals go to court and get cost-free. And sometimes we even accuse the judges, not knowing that the judge couldn't just have sentenced him to prison just because he's been accused, the judge needs proof. Those who are gathering the proof are not doing it well. And I've told you that the good people who are supposed to do this work, their interests, their ideas make quick money, get quick money. That's why a criminal can go to the police station and buy his way out because money is involved. And the bottom line of it is poverty, lack of provision of what people can meet their needs and people who are not contented, people who want to have it by all means, can go into crime too. So, if we want to address crime in Nigeria, my first advice to the people on this team is, can we deliberate with the issue that things begin to work in Nigeria? Services that people need to begin to be available. Now, you have no justification for crime. That's one. Two, those who have been arrested, let people see that if you are arrested, it is no longer business as usual. Something definitely is going to happen. You will end in jail. And if the crime is prove your reasonable doubt, even if it means that you'll be shot, you will go. Once they begin to do it, one is in jail, two, three, four, five. And criminals are beginning to say, oh, my friend now is in prison and it is no longer the business of yesterday where you will be given a sub-landing. Then every criminal will begin to say where they mean it. Even, you see, there are some criminals in Nigeria who have been supported by parents, supported by relatives. Because the relatives realize that nobody has ever been brought to court. So they will have to support their own as long as it's going to be monitored in the house. So I believe that the first thing is we begin to provide services that will even make criminality unattractive. When people are no longer attractive to criminality, no longer attractive to evil, then we are beginning to solve security. Then another aspect that I feel that we have not been doing right is our security because of this insincerity have not been able to put synergy between her and the population. The people in the community don't even trust their security, whether they are police, whether they're a soldier or whatever. We speak with our mouth that, hey, we are together, they are our brothers, but how much trust do we have? That's why we don't give them good information that will lead them to attacking crime. So the military or the security people must deliberately create an avenue of trust. Make people believe them, make people see them and trust them enough that they can tell them what they know, they can tell them what they see. Then we will begin to address criminality and stop it. When we go to the judges, sometimes I've heard people saying that criminals will go, those who are sponsoring the criminals will go behind and speak to the judge and the judge will give those criminals a quick berth. Then when the judges know that there is no longer business as usual, they too will sit up. So from the security group, criminals have no 3D. From the court, criminals have no 3D. From their relatives, criminals have no 3D. Then they will know that the business is over. But first, what have we put in place to really make people even feel that being a criminal is just a waste of time because you're not going to make it, you will end up in jail. You will be described by more than they have. But once there are no good services, people are hungry. You can preach in church, preach in mosques. You know Reverend, another thing you said which I think is quite critical I would want to do something to it. Another thing you said which I think is quite critical is the fact that most of the people recruited into the police force didn't want to be there in the first place. Perhaps we should be thinking about incentivizing, we should be thinking about making the police more attractive because people would want to enter there and see it as a noble profession. Something to be proud of. And then they would defend their uniform. Defend their uniform and integrity of the force. Defend their uniform and integrity of the force. Defend their uniform and integrity of the force. We run a system in Nigeria called the National Marine Service Corps. For one year, graduates will be sent to schools to teach. Go to these schools and ask them whether these graduates really teach for the whole time. They didn't teach anything. Because the system of posting them sometimes is within where the school is in session. This school cannot be in session for two months and you are studying someone who is teaching this school when will he teach for the next exams? He didn't start from the first week of the term. So how can he teach before exams? So we are wasting useful young men when we make our security attractive. That's another way to get them. Say look, the first one, that one year mandatory youth service school could be translated into one year security service for your country. You can be posted to immigration, posted to custom, posted to the police, posted to the SSX, posted to the military and all the formations that we have. After service, because you may deeply engage in securing your country. You begin to see the advantage of ensuring your country is protected, your country is secured, your country is rid of crime. When you finish and you feel you want to remain, then you can apply. We can try this and I've been to Israel by the grace of God for over 15 times. And I see the young men who stopped me at the airport to ask me questions every time that I've ever been there. These young men who are coming to do the same program we are doing, almost the same program we are doing. And because they are young people, they have the energy, they have the intellect to ask you questions that you can easily give answers to another story of 30 years ago. Let me give an example. My name is Hayab. There was a crime committed over 50 years ago by somebody called Hayabu. I have answered questions about my name Hayabu. What is the meaning of Hayabu? Why am I Hayabu? Have I been to social country and social country? Because their idea is I may belong to the family of Hayabu and have just removed the bee that is the last alphabet. I just love the way they do it. I don't know because of the question. But when you put someone who is already hungry and has no energy to ask those questions you will ask for that question. We have many ways we can use our young men and bring them out and then our country will be secure. The money we are talking about is not just increasing. One government say I've increased allowance for youth core. We can make youth core an attractive something that everybody would desire to go because it will serve the nation and come out with this feeling. Yes, it served that way and chose not to do security work but he has become knowledgeable in the security of his country throughout his lifetime because he will know when there is crime he will know what is happening but we are within a whole year with our young people calling it a youth core because sending a northerner to the south to do such service and it is about security and sending a northerner to do that service because security it also increases their knowledge about the security of our country and the idea was good and it is still good but we can modify it and put it to be beneficiary to our country and also improving the knowledge of our young people about our country then we are also getting young men recruited into the various forces. Let me say this do you know that most young men who are recruited into police or army or whatever around this country today not all of them really pass the exams some of them are nominated by some young people brother that man will be nominating danger why don't you allow the police to recruit someone who really wants to do the job the army to recruit someone who really wants to do the job not just nominating because you are a senator we can stop that about security there is no senator no person in the execution nominate anybody well yes I wish we had more time but that story for another day our IG came into office and said he was feeling like a lion and people began to call him lion of the tribe of Judah that he was going to remove all security men from VIPs and all that it is not happening and you just said something that it is the incentives that go to the DPOs the IG everybody that is causing it and all that I wish we had more time to discuss but that is another day before being a part of our show this morning Reverend Joseph Hayab thank you for having me and I pray that our country will be peaceful and we will be able to improve our security soon amen okay that was Reverend Joseph John Hayab Chairman, Christian Association of Nigeria Kaduna State and he also is a security expert talking to us on how to improve the intelligence in our security agencies and make sure that we don't lose security personnel to bandits, to criminals that should not even go near them or take their lives that's how we are going to wrap up but just before we do we don't have a quote of the day we don't have a quote of the day so we are wrapping up join us tomorrow for another edition of the breakfast I am Maureen Menomez and I am Nyam Gul Agadji let's do it again tomorrow bye for now