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She said no don't worry about it I had a company FA but there's some people made allegations against you. I said for what? And then she went with a racial allegation. I went I said all right and I named four of the players. I said right I'll tell you what they are because now they got the amp because they're not getting a contract. Best player I ever seen and had the pleasure to talk and even train with was Joanne Cruyff. If you're an asshole you're an asshole doesn't matter religion color anything don't come into it in my eyes. You're down in the dump and you want to growl in it everyone because you got sacked. The following season there you are running around a picture at Wembley getting promoted because I just come out of a bit of a bad situation at Bournemouth I was a little bit you know a bit of a breakdown I think you know in the nutshell I was under the hospital and everything. Sky TV two days stuck outside my house. Microphone cameras I've been done for segregating the changing room won't let blacks change with whites won't let blacks eat with whites. How many charges did you actually get? I think there was originally there was 28 because that's a lot of charges or one or two you're thinking you've got a fighting chance. There you go. So the ones who was threatening to shoot you. Oh yeah doing all the kinds of things. It's the one who's made allegations against you. Yeah both of them. And this is noted down it's not just you. No try reading. Fire shots back. And boom we're on and today's guest we've got football manager Johnny M. Johnny boy. Yeah please we'll meet you James thanks for the opportunity. Yeah it'd be nice to get out and tell me my side of what's been going on. Yeah a lot of media headlines you've got one of the I think the biggest band in FA history. 18 months they doubled up because you're a you're a pill. Three years you've been kind as we're called called a racist now because there's certain comments you've made over the last two or three years you've been a manager for over 30 years and today's you want to tell things from your side. But first and foremost how are you? Yeah coming through the worst year of my life you can imagine not only for me for me family for friends that I know and it's just people that you know I wouldn't say know the truth but you know you're portrayed as somebody like you're some sort of cartoon character and you know this big ogre who goes it's not me at all and it's just such a shame that it's come to this with all the people and players that I've worked with and people that I know friends that I know and all religions all creeds that you know and you've got sort of like look at them and think do you think I'm like that and I know they don't and I know the evidence will show and things like that I've got that I don't think it's been very fair to be honest with you. It's a big card to have hanging over your head especially in today's society. There was a few charges which we'll touch on you pleaded to a couple you get charged with a few and we'll touch on everything but first of all I'll go back to the start of my guess get a bit of an understanding about you. Yeah. Where you grew up? How it all began? Yeah, in August 1959 even Adam looked at old place called animal called hospital which was in Stockwell standing joke between me and a couple of my mates McGeregan one of them have to mention him because it's the same bed same hospital joke you know I jumped my mother jumped out and he's mum jumped in sort of thing it was one of them sort of places on Ray South London great great times I had ran there growing up. Council of states moved up to West Norwood and yeah just really as a kid you know went to a Catholic school secondary school which I didn't know racism sexism or anything like that you know those are the days when you had the national front and things like that and it was just a we did he's horrible to say but you didn't realize it was only when people identified what was going on that as kids you realized that you was just all kids growing up and I loved every minute of it to be fair. How about you at school? I went to a secondary school in Stratum well Stratum Boulder a certain biggest Catholic school and that's first and foremost where it started because we was Catholics it was a time of the IRA and everything was going on and there was people digging me out because my family my name was from travelers and Irish and that and are you thinking I didn't know what this was going on you know all my mates that we go knock up with there was no mention of this that any other then you see the IRA blowing never been to Ireland I've never been to Ireland in my life you know I'm an English boy all bread South London lad we're all the same and yeah it was quite funny growing up and yeah it was an experience probably that way I was parents. No I never got on with the old man the old man was a bit of a nigma to be fair my mum tough woman 13 kids and my name like I say tough is little woman you'll ever come across little Irish like travel woman and you you know I've seen her stand there fighting men and fighting people she was just but everything everything for the family everything you haven't got nothing but you share it no one's ever better than you all the all the good things you know please thank you no one had a pot to piss in but then so what you know you didn't realize that as a kid it's only when you got older that you started wanting things when did you start playing football I started very young I was we used to play for a church team me and the chaps and Matthews down in West Norwood played for the school and there was a scots player Johnny Boyle played at Chelsea what's a what a great great man real real nice man and he won the European Cup winners cup with Chelsea and he used to come down and train our school train the the church team with sometimes Ozzie and that used to come down Stuart Houston who went on with Man United and good good people but used to get a lot of pros then used to come down and help the kids you know and it was great to see these players playing and then all of a sudden you're there with them but because I won the Chelsea fair it was taking a minute out of me because I wouldn't you know I'm not a Chelsea man not no way and it's sort of like growing on from there because it was funny I was reading my birth certificate when I was born I was my nan rushed me over got a priest over because I nearly died of pneumonia and it was giving me the last rights and everything and it's all on me birth certificate and it was a standing joke that oh yeah you've been saved for something and my name used to say yeah drive everyone up the fucking wall and it from there it's sort of like I don't know what it was you have that little bit of determination in you and I think that goes back to what it is of the wrongness of things if you've done something you hold your hands up if you get captured you're stupid if you do this do that then you get your deserves but you don't need to be treat treat people that you want to be treated and all the things that you're not supposed to say anymore the rules of your life it doesn't mean to say that other people abide by him who's the best team you played for because I know you are is it Crystal Palace I was a palace I was lucky enough I trained there at Palace I had six months I had a terrible injury and I played when I was 14 we was playing in the National Music League well it was funny my brother used to work at Apple records and when I was 14 years of age there I am at a party with him Ringo Starr, Melton John was there there was a few like Kenny Everett and there's me this 14 year old walking around thinking this is a bit of me this you know I mean what am I walking around strapping for when you've got all this little firm going on you know and they had a they had a football team from Gaff management which was Rod Stewart's manager and the Bee Gees and all these sort of people and Robert Stigwood had a team in it Pink Floyd and they bought this music in industries league and we I was I was getting a few quid for playing and the blades that I was playing with our sort of like captain was a drummer with Rory Gallagher and yeah it was good experience there I am as a kid now playing with men proper men and you're going to people and people are going to me oh look there's a fella out of Pink Floyd there and there's the listen we was in the sort of like all sorts of music but we was like the reggae music and a bit of the old blue beat and scar and you'd be 41 about and then show me age now John we was in the old Desmond Decker and tighten up volume too and all that you know Prince Buster and all that sort of people used to be a shop in Brixton called I think was the Desmond Zippa and we used to go down there and you know get the records down there used to be a shop down there we used to get all your shoes I read a shoe shop because me and good friends of mine just have stalls and all that around Brixton it was a proper community and people go now about Brixton and this that and yeah but we grew up there you know it was their tension was that listen you're kids you don't give a fuck where you are you know you treat people the same as you want to be treated if you if you come across as a bullshit or a liar or you get sorted out by your own people you know but great times yeah yeah clear was quite short with an engineer yeah to be fair looking back on it because I was doing like I got involved in the men's football very early loved every minute of it we used to have a team called Adidas which was run out of a pub in a West Tolceal my auntie had a pub at the Elm Park which we used to run it out of and then we went into this one then the lads in there we had some great players in there like the non-league players dullage amlic players like keep yours Roger Roger Chamberlain all these sort of people that they were good players and you loved your football you loved your football and I got more involved in that I was still training playing and when I got injured it was an excuse really was I that good I think I could have been but soon as I got injured that was me I was on the world side of life for 10 years which absolutely loved every minute what is with you and you got injured I was 17 and I was 18 just a kid just a kid yeah now is the days my leg I broke my leg done the fibia and the tibia at the time and I was worrying about the bone cracking and my knee was shot and I was in plaster I think it must have been for about 11 months they kept changing it below my knee and so from that age you know I was f**king fuming all the time because you still think you're gonna come back luckily I got offered a deal to go to Millwall the old manager there used to be the the manager the coach Crystal Palace George Petty and I went there for six months but great club great club great people but just didn't really cut the mustard to be quite honest with you I'd lost that out the yard so it was over there all me mates was on the roof staying ash felting so there you go there you go you're out you're earning money you're getting money through you know like the other side of football and that yeah just great times well whoa I was gutted and have a gun that I play off sale like their fans are f**king nuts well you still did you feel that then look they're nuts ain't they well the thing is when you when you know a lot of them and when you ran that way it's it's all about your passion for your club isn't it you know it used to be funny they're the fans up there that they're some of the best every club's got them but the Millwall ones mate they're Millwalls up west there and some of them but them sort of teams mate it's your your your club it's your history it's your it's your era don't matter where you are or whether you're a Millwall fan or you're a palace fan or wherever you are great great club it was an environment because we was all out the same you know the same environment and then when you got the non-league size that we was at Dullidge Ambulance and teams like that you know I was lucky enough I went back to Dullidge with Dave Garland that's managing it and that's when we took Peter Crouch on loan we took Crouchy down when he was still at Tottenham and low and be old Crouchy obviously doing well for us QPR I think bought him and the rest is history and that's that's the sort of level and the standards that you was getting in but you can imagine that environment there you are at Dullidge Ambulance in the middle of south west south east but you know everybody everybody you're walking the pub you know people you know you walk anywhere in the betting shops and things like this and that's what leading on to as we go on to it in later you can see one of the reasons one of the accusations against me or some of them was a little bit whoa hold on a minute you know it's your memory from the past and what the way that you there was never there was never any any badness towards anybody yeah listen we weren't all walking around like snow white in the seven door walls but at the same token we was good people you'd like to think everybody you knew was round you was you was the boys you was growing up you was being you know doing sound your world out so it's been how was big crouching because looking at him he does not look like a player but the goals that he used to store scored world world class like how was it looking at him work for the first time what were you thinking well he came in dive we we sold a plate of Tottenham called Dave McEwen and a fellow that we knew got him on trial for your family and Patsy Holland who dates had like this his kid blah blah blah and he just came in a dresser room and he he's just like young I think about 17 at the time but you could see in training and that he had a lot about him and that but straight away I think one of the comments one of the player said to him was because the size of his feet they fucking feet or scap old balls you know and straight away crouches him but top real real nice fella and you could see he was determined and I think seeing him where he was he must have looked around and thought what the fuck am I doing here and it give him the kick hopefully you'd like to think it helped him to get on to where he is but all credit to him he could have gone the other way when you get released or might be released by clubs you take it two ways then you either sit back and try and sue everybody or you get on with him so you were in the manager career for over 30 years like a long time how many teams were you involved and joined well what happened in the 80s before that I went overseas I was overseas I was lucky enough we went working um and I grew up in the 80s in Mallorca um that was that a few weeks ago yeah in a place called Aaronal we used to use a bar called the Flying Agus which was it was the best growing up land that you could ever have all the lads there there was you know talk about abuse and racism when you've got a bar full of scotsmen singing Bonnie Paraguay at you when England are playing him in 1980s great times but it was all done in good humour and you meet people and you see that from people and you grow up and you see things went to Australia and um in the middle east I went out working in Egypt and that's where I first got into coaching to be honest I was out in Egypt Cairo and you know there's a little kid from south London what you doing in Mallorca and I started coaching out there with a lot of the Muslim boys and and you know there was a club formed out there called um Somalik which I'd done a bit of coaching for me come back there and I came back from there went out to Oman we're working out there came back went to the Agus again with the boys and we decided a few of us there go to Australia where I played out in Australia but I was nowhere near it it was just another excuse to and I got into me coaching and came back to England met my now wife but was so so lucky so lucky that I got a job offered in 1990 at Fulham a fellow called Tom Enifer who was he's had a checker past Tom but what a character he was the commercial manager there and he could make a pound you know you'd come in in there and they'd tell you something he's one of them Tom but great great great football man and I was so so lucky there that I would got obviously got around Ray Lewin and then Terry Bullivant and I started doing the youth team and that there and I was doing a lot of the centres in and in central London because I would you know what I've always worked in Brixton in the youth clubs um in in and around stratum in and around you know just to learn your trade you had to get out on the streets there's none of this so you know I'm going to pay and go on a coaching course and I'm going to manage Man United and win the world you had to get out and earn it and learn it so see me you're walking back then all these years ago was there any allegations made against you then only what a good looking gaze no none but it wasn't I don't think you you there was never any all through your life we was brought up but with the with the attitude it doesn't matter where you're from or what you are if you're a best player or you you are the best at what you want to be why wouldn't you get picked why wouldn't you do this why would if you're an asshole you're an asshole doesn't matter religion color anything don't come into it in my eyes and if you sort of like lead them through your you go back to your your roots of no one's better than you no one's this no one's that it's the true you know you're not you're not out to make allegations against people and people if there was anything whether it was an allegation about you're looking at someone's girlfriend or they're looking at your girlfriend whatever it was then it was sorted it was sorted between you and him as a man or as a whatever you want to call it not you you know not just me players and anything I've seen loads of things happen but no never never never never in in a million years you wouldn't think about that back then who's the best team you walked off um I would say the best team that we progressed with was obviously at Bournemouth but Exeter was a great time for me uh with Paul Tisdale I was Paul's assistant when we won the two promotions what a great man you know he's done he's stuck by everything you know Paul speak to him Reggie and Stevie Perraman you know see Steve you're working with Steve Perraman it's top them legends you know and if you can't learn off of these people but Malcolm Allison and that was my favorite coach of all time he was just a different different kettle of fish to everybody years and years above himself Malcolm and he could tell some stories as well what makes a good manager to me I think you've got to be able if you can't stop being yourself it's just you've got a relationship with people you've got to be able to talk to people you've got to be able to listen to people you've got to be able to have a little bit of empathy with someone my opinion and at the end of the day you've got to be able to relate people have got to relate to you good or bad nine times out of ten you're giving people good news and that one time you've got to give them bad news you hope that it's coming out the same heart the same lungs the same brain is what you're giving them the good news with is there nerves coming picking a team normally you have to drop players for big games or do they come so called towards that yeah well there is but then you get your assistant to do that there is but then like I say you pick your best team you try and pick your best team and your best team is the one that because it reflects if the team does well you do well the fans do well if you don't and you're sort of like picking people purely out of spy hat I'm not going to pick in because a lot of it at the levels I've worked out as well a lot of it's down to money anyway you've got no option but to pick them so you've got to get the best out of because we've produced quite a few players you know I've worked with some players that have gone on a big big money we've started with nothings and you think to yourself you know what everybody needs an opportunity everybody on one of them you come down and earn the right to get in the team I'll give you the opportunity and we did and I have done over the years and it's worked successfully for me I went for a stage I think every day in the 90s I think I've got a little bit too look at me ain't not you know I'm fucking really big boots now there you are me all there is and all that like and you learn very quickly and you get shot down very quickly that on yours only as good as your last game you go against what you stand for you know I was boozing a lot then and all that and I must have been in my noxious horrible bastard but the Scottish managers always they've produced some of the best managers the world's ever seen that jank there's an element of fear with the Scottish managers I've kind of got that because Alex Ferguson that he was you can tell the players fearful of him but he could tell you could respect him is that a big part of that having a little bit element of fear because some I think the man you over the last few years there's the dressing rooms kind of went soft somebody players dancing about making TikTok videos for me I'm against all that shit like it's just embarrassing you're there to play football and do things in your your own fucking time but not in dressing rooms like did you see the Scottish managers having an extra little bit of well last night getting back to me aggies days Scottish managers you know you wouldn't think the football was played anywhere but outside Scotland but back in the day every team had an had an odd Scotsman in it you know they had someone who was down there you knew that the joke was gonna go in there he was gonna have a go for you he was gonna do this for you and you had that little bit I think that was all coming down to my old granddad used to say Scotsman everyone thinks Scotsman the tough he's tough hard you know he says because you can't understand them and he said anyone shouts and anyone shouts and screams at you your first fault is we'll hold on a minute he said so calm yourself down and then listen to what he said then you'll be all right it's a fact you know what Terry earlock and that who was who went up to range is he was a tough tip yes well that's why he was a Millwall legend but he can't fool him he was a fooling with me as well soon as Billy Bremners you go through them you know like and everyone had that but that was the spirit of the club you know you you you know you had you had the jocks you were not allowed to say that anymore I'm frightened you know I'm if I sound nervy that's why because you're thinking can't say a joke you can't say this and I don't mean that in a stupid way but you could turn around now I could be waiting them or it could be a bloody writ on me doorstep that you call James English a joke well you know that's a compliment of what you normally get to call but this is a society we're in that people are on eggshells people are getting cancelled left free in the centre listen we'll get into all the allegations and that in a bit but it's when you're going through your career then and who's like you worked with Eddie how not as well that he's flying high out Newcastle like how was he as a manager Eddie listen Ed we got Ed came back with us to Bournemouth we had some great times me and Jason when we first went in there because that's all there was a Bournemouth and we built up a side that was in the first division and went up in the Premier League me personally as we was growing higher and higher you know Ed Ed's a younger manager and the technology and all this come out and you know I used to make him laugh I just sit there and these machines and that and you know not for me computers and this and psychologists and everything else I'm not saying it's not needed but any knowledge is good knowledge if it's used properly and Ed's very very good at what he does generational wise as a person and everything else we used to we used to go out together and yeah we I was like the old granddad with him it was a bit like falls and all this you know I just sit there with me war stories and Ed and Jason that but good people and we had some great players you know but Colin Wilson Matt Richie you know all them people come and made a massive massive difference to the club and it was great times there because it was all on the up but sometimes I think when the money started getting involved you definitely see the changes in people and you see the changes in the players that you're buying and you see the difference that little bit of I wouldn't say hunger goes out of the window but you start looking one minute you're looking in in like a Liddles and then all of a sudden you're shopping in Arads but it's a different kind of market and it you know and and I don't know I like the lower levels I like the low meat and gravy it's a bit more realistic to me who's the best player you've ever seen best player I ever seen and had the pleasure to talk and even train we was Johan Cruyff great when I back in the day he came over with he was playing for the New York Cosmos you know exhibition match at Chelsea and he come down to the training ground where we were and mate he was because they wanted somewhere to train and mate what a nice all that memory he just smoked like a chimney smoke smoke smoke all the time but we he was one of the first to play football golf with him and he was bringing the boys that yeah boom boom trying to do a Dutch accent but he's bringing the balls bringing the ball make it easy that was this case and while he's doing it with another foot then he's doing it with it and then you must practice great man talk football Malcolm Allison once again he had very big influence on the Dutch he loved Dutch football Malcolm and he had great influence on on that sort of side of him and when you see now that you've got Pep and all that talk world of yoga and it to me that all comes back down to the little bit with Malcolm see the Dutch way I actually brought all the youth players through but now they're doing it way is it Altma they've got what they've done now is brain tests if you don't pass the brain test you don't get in but they've just won the Champions League youth Champions League or UEFA Cup they're scored 18 goals only conceded to battered Real Madrid and Barcelona so you know yourself football brain how many players have you seen my talent with a brain you're thinking you're a fucking dog man that so they're doing brain test now it's like you say it's technology in the future probably but they're apparently the Dutch football is going to be booming again for the next 20 years because they're ahead of times they're doing tests on the brain how they would react to situations some of the lads and some of the people I've worked with were all that straight away that that's them failed you won't get a fucking job but yeah that's what I'm saying that's what you've got to do but you know you have to go like I say when we're working in the youth clubs where you're looking for players you're looking for players all the time you're out looking in the streets it used to be the old you know get out of ghetto it was boxing and football I think we've lost that a little bit now I think people expect too much and I think you know if you're not playing on a pitch that's cut to half a millimeter or all weather and all this well you don't need to be out in the streets you know here I'll go again on the old time but it's a fact you was out on the streets playing and you was out on the streets doing this and like I say I was playing with seniors I was playing with older boys because they were the bigger boys you know and a little handfuls as well afterwards but you get the ball out it was I don't think it is anymore James to be honest but football is becoming a middle class kind of sport man now back in the day with myself in the 80s and that we were told him about his little plastic bag I'm saying a way down playing four games a weekend and yeah yeah that's all we had now kids have mental health through the roof ADHD through the roof like you've got iPads laptop social media only thing they do now is watch football and a lot of football pitches in Glasgow half of them are away probably 80% of them are away it's sad that I think I would probably see a lot of teams going into administration now and only having maybe one or two leagues in Scotland because nobody goes and watches games anymore now well I think that's exactly the same and you look at it what we've gone through as a generational and as everything else it used to be a privilege to play football because everybody could do it you put like you say you put two bags then you put this there but I just think we've gone a little bit OTT you say about you know players wanting this and wanting that is it good I don't think it is everybody wanted it but you had to earn it and I think back then it was a lot more emphasis placed on you earn it not your title to it you know and I've had been meant to wealth problems and anybody where that comes into I feel sorry for anybody don't get me wrong but if the social workers would have come around our flat where we was growing up I'm telling you now we would have all been locked up we would have all had casework because we would have all the mums and dads would have been in prison blah blah blah because you look at it now you leave your door open or you we had so many uncles and aunties because everybody was your uncle and auntie because of any trouble won't you go right now I don't think that happens anymore now so it's a little bit closed and we all got to look all over our shoulders well what can we get what what we entitled to whereas there if you lend someone a shilling then the next day they didn't lend you a shilling if they had two of them we wouldn't talk to them anymore that was them sort of like ostracised and I mean that is but it was it's true it's a fact and I think that brought people together a lot more and the trust in issue of course there was always arseholes there's arseholes everywhere but the trust issue back then I think as kids you you had to trust people a lot more and you give it out a bit more but people then the trust back then different like you say leaving doors open and windows open I grew up in a rough area so but everybody was out playing everybody we used to go and get pieces and butter and pieces and jam and that was a luxury for us back then going to somebody's house and getting a piece and jam or a piece and butter yeah that's called a sandwich yeah so it's just it's just times have changed like I say we're going through a generation where I look at kids and I think man I don't know how you're going to survive life life ain't easy no it's a fucking tough old slog man and we're we're raising a generation of weak weak fucking links and that's this that's the scary thing there's people out there and you think yeah maybe they've got it together but there's so many people struggling from not just kids now is people my age your age that people I don't even know what the ingredient as the way it's now causing so much pain in people's life I totally agree and and I look at it now like you say about you know growing up and in in your life I've either I wouldn't wish or or have anything on people with my dad's getting back into the day they've registered he was a schizophrenic and the nurse used to come around and have to jab him up and you can imagine our life as kids and my mother's life was off and so I was brought up with that and and you look back on things sometimes and you do you rely on your mates and it was a toss up you took your paths didn't you when you was back then you know the people that went on the dark side you know the people that thought they could go on the dark side or you was like I was lucky without football and without meeting my missus when I did who knows where I could have been I could have been in a bleeding dip somewhere you could have been I don't know a drunk you could have been anything that you you know but you need something to focus on and you got to get away from that and if it's football if it's a girl if it's moving away if it's this I was so lucky to travel and get away when I did but no one helped me get away it just I thought I've got to get more out of life than this I've got to go like I say you get a phone call on a Thursday do you want to come and work in Egypt next week uh yeah good then Egypt my mother come home she's like f***ing where f***ing Egypt not where Egypt was you know she thought there I am so I took a chance it's like and I never had a pot to piss him when you land there you take that don't seem to be that many risk takers now everybody seems to want it well let's study your path James I want you to do and if this happens it won't happen you'll get help for that you know you know you you look tired today have you been eating the right beetroot and all f***ing go and enjoy your lives get out get out and enjoy yourself what year did you go to Crawley I'll first I've twice I've been at Crawley I went to Crawley the first time when I was in administration with the owners the Chasmajid was the owner then who he's very very well documented what happened to him and his family but a great man great man Chas I know people he's got his enemies I went there with Johnny Ollins who was the Chelsea manager he used to be played the Chelsea in Arsenal and John took me in to do the kids at first and John got the sack and I took over the first team we was 10 points drift at the beginning of the season in administration odds on to go down and we stayed up and Danny Ballman was we signed Danny who's a club legend in there so that that season we survived and I was rewarded with the sack once again so here we go about the ups and downs of it so what you do you know everyone was a bastard you know like me and right but didn't want me there could book someone else here and they got promoted Steve Evans done a great job there done what he had to do got promoted new owners knew this so what do I do well I went to Exeter and that year Exeter we got promotion we got promoted from the Vauxhall used to be the nation nation what they call it conference conference we got through the conference we won the playoffs at Wembley first great time that was here you are one minute you're down in the dump and you want to growl in it everyone because you got sacked the following season there you are running around a pitch at Wembley getting promoted we then got promoted the following year as well with Exeter looking back at Exeter I should have stayed here I should have stayed with Paul but once again I think I got a little bit Charlie Bananas you know look at me and it was a long drive to go to Exeter great people down there great great people they it's nice to know that as well yeah what are you so I used to go the um because I used to do a lot on there um like like this it was the Kellogg show it was called great two people great well we're above themselves great little radio show they used to do and I used to sit there and I was a little bit like the uh the Londoner the Londoner sort of like come down to Exeter and you know like a little bit whoa give it one of them I used to sit there talking to people when we're sitting laughing and joking and regularly I used to say you ain't got I can clue what you're talking about boy and all that you're talking about you you you know there from Exeter and I'm from London who gives a monkeys you was all together having a laugh having a joke great great little football club great little football club and uh I don't know where I went oh I went to Torquay after that took a boy down there you know Kane who went on he was their first signing at Bournemouth went on to play with um Leeds Republic of Ireland international so we've it's always been about football's all about players in my opinion you know there's no such thing as going to a bad game you go to a game and someone catches your eye it's been worthwhile isn't it if you go there and and you think ah what am I going to get well what a waste of time what a waste of time watching this it's your job you get what was it like one in a Wembley it was so funny because Jason Tyndall who's now Eddie's assistant was the assistant or the coach at Cambridge we beat Cambridge United and and it was so fun this story it's a funny story my mate he had a couple of restaurants in Alsham little Italian boy Freddy um with his Maltese and we're one new up and this you know I'd only been at Exeter three or four months but great bunch of lads we had a great team they all went on to do higher things and there you are Wembley packed end of Exeter supporters and Cambridge bought a lot and we got one new up Robert would add up well we're up and Tizi's done a very articulate and I mean Steve you know giving it all that sort of thing and uh last minute of the game of a couple of minutes Dean Moxie's all the way through and he looks like oh god I think he's going to get the second goal we're too near we're away then we're here we're up with a fair right and he saved the keeper comes out and he misses the shot oh well I've heard from my family bit I've looked up and Freddy's there clapping so what'd you do he just silly bastard like oh okay he'd had a hundred quid on us to win one and the first goal scorer so he'd won a couple of grand he was happy as a bigger shit like everyone's getting the drinks in but Ray Ray was um he Ted Baker's used to sponsor us and Ray was there and Russell Osmond was there and then great time great great great time and uh you couldn't believe it there am I sitting there Wembley and it meant it means a lot you know when I was you when I used to go to the grounds in the Prem League and that and you're sitting there and deep down this is the little kid from South London who he was lucky I nearly got a ball stall when I was younger escaped that my mates got locked up I wasn't there a long story I missed that got nicked a couple of times with silly things and I'm there I am fucking no I'm at Wembley and we've won and it all comes back it all comes back and you think of silly things I'm thinking of me Nan and you know me mom and all these people and it's an achievement you've won at Wembley you know you can't you wouldn't be able to change that so you got two promotions we exited why did you leave um money no I was traveling a lot and Tiz wanted me to do something different and like I say I think I've got a little bit too big for me boost to be quite honest with you it's only looking back on it you know I wanted this and I wanted to do that and want it to do a bit more um silly really but you live and learn don't you know as I say I went to talk here after that with Paul Buckle um and it was even further travel it made you laugh because I put in the paper hold your hands left the club we thank him blah blah blah he was fed up with the traveling the week later there John Simon it's okay 40 50 more further but no I think that that's what I'm I'd like to think sometimes that I'm good at that you look at yourself and I don't blame other people for a lot of things at the time everyone's a bastard you know you want to eat everybody in the world but you gotta look at yourself sometimes if you don't manage yourself and look at yourself and check yourself sometimes good or bad you're never going to improve you just wind up being an asshole so you get released from Crawley and then you went back a few years later yeah I went back why did they take you back um it was weird because we left Bournemouth I went to Bournemouth we had success I always used to go to Crawley because I lived 10 minutes from there and we went into Crawley um and the the owner at the time they was Turkish owners um and be previous to this a good friend of mine Dermot Drummy was the manager there who had problems bless him and uh you know he uh well he's not with us anymore put it that way and me and Dermot used to talk every day and and and it was it left a bit of stain on it but I too it still used to go to the games and that and they put another manager in after Dermot and this that and the other um and I was going to the games talking to the Turkish owners and we'd used to have a laugh and have a joke and there was me again like sitting there Premier League and all that at the blue just before Christmas I got a phone call um would I come would I consider being a manager a couple of the players had stuck my name up they got rid of the the manager then forget his name now Mr Coffey I think it was or something but I got rid of him and I said well you want me to be manager I thought never never entered me out it was true I never entered me had a managing crawler I'd like to have done because it's 10 minutes from yeah so I went down and I said okay let's have a little look and went down and everybody's faces was on the ground and they were struggling a little bit and uh I took Lee Bradbury with us me and Lee Bradbury Plankman City Palace good man Lee ex ex squaddie so we had him we had the physio we had it was going to Bournemouth where we had everything coming in it's back to your roots where you had to be in this is the thing you had to have that atmosphere you had to get everybody together because if you didn't you got nothing you're absolutely nothing you know you're not in it of course everyone's in it but the money and get in but I always think that you're in it you were incentivized you incentivize your reward success you don't reward failure and unfortunately less the world in my opinion so we got it going and we um gone to January and we was doing really well and they said to me because I wouldn't sign a contract I said I'll give it to January let's see how it goes because I thought if I don't get on with you and you don't get on with me I'm not going down this road again because I just come out of a bit of a bad situation at Bournemouth I was a little bit you know a bit of a breakdown I think you know in a nutshell I was under the hospital and everything and uh I thought do I need all this ag again but I absolutely loved it is that the pressure with football that makes your mind go I think I was that a bit of your everything yeah you can you look at all that you know and people forget that they everybody goes on about mental health and that and when you look how we was brought up and it's not it's like when we used to look at the old boys and and you send them over a glass of scotch or something you know when I was 18 90 there the boy they've got they went through wars what was ace it and used to think silly old bar they're sitting there thinking what did they went through everyone's got a story haven't everyone's got a book in them so when you look at it you don't judge any I don't judge anybody until you get to know the person and the worst thing people can ever say to you in my opinion is I know you feel well you don't know how I feel because you'll react differently to what I do you might be able to help me with a situation so anyway we was in Bournemouth and there was Leah there was me and we obviously January come and I said come on in I'll sign the deal we'll get you going for two years so we was doing really well signed the deals had a lot on the joke with the Turks and all over like all coming over from Turkey and all of a sudden we're gonna win the European Cup because we've only been here 10 minutes anyway had a great time then the COVID it and everything was Bosh and that to me what's happened at COVID within sport as well I don't think we've seen the repercussions of it to be fair if that's a word it really hit the club badly because one minute I'll never get it I think it was the Grand National was on and then Liverpool played man played a game at Anfield and everyone's got no football I'd be alright football be chopped your legs off there's no football what'd you do what's going to happen well my missus was working and she was booked in a care home administrative care home at the time and they had four or five people in the place was dying and she was coming home of a night she shot the button up what's going on and my boy was in the army he'd left the army he was at home then and everybody was just you know zombified and I'm thinking what's going to I was going down the club every day because we're still trying to you know keep because you couldn't get the players in and I was officially we was having all the tests done every day and and it was so so weird so we missed out we could have gone on and kicked on that year possibly I don't know but we knew I was geared up we made some good signings that summer got some good friends of mine that I bought in senior players and through the COVID we were still playing you know once once it kicked off again in the next season and we was just flying we was say we'd be we've had League United in the FA Cup we beat Leeds 3-0 on the BBC you know top sides and all that there's me and their manager and we're like and people and I used to do these these interviews and people used to they used to go viral people go your interview's gone but I don't know what that means what have I done now you know always what have I done now oh you've got to not be so truthful oh you've got to be listen don't ask me then don't if you don't want to hear don't don't ask me but it was all a joke you it was all to get the get the atmosphere get the pressure off the boys get it on to me and we we we were sailing we bought a boy I bought a boy in uh called Max Watters the top lad we were top lad in our level you imagine it it came in for three months and within the three months we'd sold him for a million pound at our level through COVID and everyone's going okay now oh it cost us going up to be honest Max what a great kid went to holding McHardiff and we had another one that left as well that we so we're getting this the players levels because I'm getting phone calls from everybody you know Ian Ollaway was sending players in you know Topman and all these people and I don't know whether it was that year or the year after that the Turks was getting the um and the owners come in and uh well after Christmas that that we had we had the Christmas and then after that it was like the uh house of cards fell in on me it was just crazy so even you're the manager how much of you got a C bringing players in uh with me and Erdan he always had the last say because he does the wages but there's certain players that if I wanted that I'd have the thing being at our level if they're not going to be good you know four hundred pound a week for a player it is to me it's four hundred pound a week you've you've got justify that now to some people can't live on four hundred but when when you've come to Premier League when they're on four weeks and fifty grand but you know that you've got work on a budget of x amount well you know sometimes you're balancing up apples and pears but that four hundred quid over the year could send your club cruelly three of them could send the club skin because you're over budget so you've got to make sure that the players you've got in they're going to be worth their while to you know even if it's for four or five games six games or whatever they got me work me well that was good they enjoyed that side of it because you was getting young hungry gets in there to play with you what's the wage budget at Bournemouth oh it went through the roof when we was in the Premier League um i didn't know to be fair i i stayed away from that i was good oh you know we had the Russian owner there then it was a see me going from Premiership to Crawley back to it yeah like how's the players different obviously players some of them think they're belly big balls like did you see that in Crawley as well as everybody quite humble because they know they're playing Crawley i think because because i knew them i i knew a lot of the lads that i was bringing in and we didn't and it was a great atmosphere there you know we we wouldn't have had that success without being a united football club in the story to come through covid to everybody sticking together you know you're turning up a covid you can only have four in a car you can only have four in the training ground and you could only have four and you and you're thinking we're going to hotels and we're the only ones there it was like bait is motel you know you think it's the fucking hell with massive hotels and everybody's like feeding you things standing well away from here and we got to go out the next day and play football and we did and we was going we had players coming down with covid terrible we had some real bad ones and and you just look you think when's it all going to end and you look at the Premier League and you're thinking well if i was on 50 60 70 grand a week still and our players they never once never got paid um the Turks looked after him every one of them um i think that was on the furlong for a while as well but might terrible experience but a good one when you look back on a major you had to be strong for everybody and i know that sounds really perfect but you did so how long when all the challenges started coming through well because obviously racism is a massive thing obviously and once you get tired with that brush your kind of everything's yeah your kind of fucked you know what i mean but so wait so being in the industry for over 30 years yeah never any charges never any allegations never a thing so when did that all come on talk for you when did the black clouds come over your head and start kind of well it was a weird one because we had new owners and these new owners that the Turks wanted to sell bless them and it was too and i'm throwing and he didn't want to then he did want to because we was that close honestly believe with the squad that we got and the players that we had we was ready to kick on we finished the first season 12 which he asked the clubs ever ever been in the football league history other than getting promoted uh beat leads beat you know we we got i knew i knew one or two additions we would do it the following season when all this piped out i knew that we had eight or nine players that would win the league next year so anyway these americans coming in promising this hey jane do they all crypto people no listen i don't think i've done myself a lot of favours with them to be honest when they was on about crypto and crypto and i said i thought that was the thing that killed superman and they're looking and they're going well you you know over my end i thought yeah crypto i said i don't want to know it you know i said i'm not interested little figures with pictures on it's worth 30 grand well give me five grand in me pocket and that'll do me you know you can have that then and all these look no i'm not saying that that was good bad it's the modern world everyone keeps a few of the lads straight away jumped on it and they yeah go fuck up are you gonna do fuck off crypto because we always have little things going with the players and like the players ball um and all these sorts of things and then they started a couple they they came over then they didn't come over then they did and we were meeting there jane i5 in it and all that and having i lived and worked in america i've got to tell you that i was over there in sarasota and was coaching over a played over there and and i often knew you know what was going on sort of thing and anyway we we was it was all going on smoothly i told four five boys i always like to tell the players early who are not getting contracts the next year to help them out to get a club for the following season some managers don't do it i always do it for simple reason it's like you coming to me in the middle of june and going why didn't you tell me earlier i could have got myself fixed up and i've done it with a couple of the players who did get fixed up i told a few of the lads that they weren't getting contracts but not only were these lads that i was telling weren't getting contracts they was very very disruptive some of them ran the club as well so i said you're not getting contracts okay all right thanks we was helping them get out on loan we was helping them do all the things erdan who was the the uh turkish ceo was doing it in charge of a lot of them because he knew their agents so we're sitting there and we're up we went to mansfield never forget it before games of all the end of the season now the americans are in by now they sold the club on the 7th of april um and the turks that um yeah some people this was like the 22nd of april we're up at mansfield nodule club sign good side you know you've got to be up there you've got to be prepared i just signed these eight boys on long-term content or two-year contracts the ones that i wanted the core of the the players so i knew that we got a great chance so we've gone up there so at five o'clock the coaches pulled up all the lads all up in the rooms boom boom boom we had a zoom meeting with the americans at eight o'clock to welcome the new contract players that you know i five them and on the zoom so anyway five o'clock i then gets a phone call from our secretary and they said john there's um got to tell you nothing to worry about but there's some allegations been made against you so i said oh yeah what have i done there then and i'm still thinking it's the bloody from the podcast and whatever whatever you call them the interview things so they said she said no don't worry about it i had a call from the fa but there's some pipe people made allegations against you i said for what and then she went with a racial allegation i went i said all right and i named four of the players i said right i tell you what they are because now they've got the um because they're not getting the contract i said phone the fa up they're sick and he told me exactly the same he said don't worry about anything john this happens all the time as you know this time of the year in football just gotta give it a heads up because someone's leaked it from the fa to the press so i said well is that loud then i said can i speak to no one spoke to me so i don't know who's been told this who said this who said that he said well i'm sorry john he said but someone's leaked it he's been leaked so i said okay right so phone me wife up and said like i'm still thinking it's like you know like bloody someone's selling a car or something in there i called all the lads in like the the black players i had with me louis at my assistant at the time was louis young who's actually young's brother who's black right louis top kid earned his badges we were putting through his badges when he was with us i called in a couple of the other black lads who was in the team i said right because i'm they're saying to me it's players in the team so i said what what's up with you lot what are you talking about that's what he's put the allegations in what are you talking about so straight away they've said well we know hold on i know what's happened boom boom boom there are a few quid or you've told them that they're leaving uh right okay none of us right everyone's a bit sad and that right go let's go get eight o'clock we met the americans hey boys let's have a good season let's go let's do this let's do that okay so i'm thinking well ain't that bad it's nothing because i've been told don't worry about it 20 past one that morning i get a phone call from america john um i had some news here um don't take the game tomorrow it's 20 past one what hello who's this sort of thing you know i thought he's one of the lads winding me up because lynchie was terrible like that joe lynch she was fucking and and i thought it was him so i said lynchie and he went no he said seriously he said you don't want you at the game we can't have racism at the football club i said what what are you talking about all of a sudden this america and he said john he packed your shit and fuck off and of course i ain't i said i beg your pardon well i didn't i said you know what i'm saying and i went you fucking serious what you're talking about this article's going to appear in the paper tomorrow but i said how do you know how do you know because i don't i don't know what's going to appear anyway long and short of it i've had to wait the staff up to tell them that i've got to leave the hotel this was by two o'clock now so the americans have told me to pack my gear and fuck off after the success we've had and yeah i five in at eight o'clock to now being told see you later so i've got all the lads up early at the breakfast nine o'clock two of them three of them wanted to come home with me didn't want to play because they knew that the lads had said things it wasn't it wasn't right put it that way even though no one had knew what they'd said they knew what was going on these is football so there i am louis young had to drive me to the station the goalkeeping coach had to pay my ticket one of the sponsors had to meet me at the train station because there was there was fans around my car at cruelly and people didn't they was all supporting me by the way they weren't sort of like having a pot but i didn't know what the fuck's going on our past six bbc radio whatever it is on the phone john can we have a word it's of course you can i think they're talking about the game and they've said allegations of racial you segregate i know you've done this is relegation segregation now they didn't say the segregation charge up to the week later allegations of of racial to talk to these players and nick the boobalade nick the boobalade of greek origin this that i'm not i'm going nick the boobalade why are you talking i've never heard of boobalade right it's american word it's mean the boobalade is bobbalade it's a little thing that they have out there anyway my mrs phone up i said to her what's she went everyone's been on the phone blah blah blah next thing in the daily mail like you know what there are like like what's going on fucking gengers card all of a sudden i've done this i've done this i've done that i've done that okay all right so what i've phoned up the lma it's a solicitor since she's and i'll never forget lindsay bless her i said well lindsay i said i said i'm really worried about this i said that ran me house what's going on all my mates phoned me up who is it who the fuck is it this would you want to no no no no no don't be stupid she said and i said what's up she said she said uh well anyway she said look let's sort it out Monday i said lindsay i'm on the train there going home she said what do you mean you're on the train i said they've told me to fuck off and get home she said i can't do that contract you know i said well listen lindsay i've got me cruelly tracksuit on never talk about dark humor and there's a couple of not in the forest supporters on the train going down and i'm sitting in my fucking edge gone you're right my edge gone i'm all over the place and it's not in the forest fair big fucking lump i went oh no you look at me went i hope the stags winter day mate and i went who and he went the stags mansfield he said i hope they beat your lot the day i said join the fucking club mate and he looked at me and he went you look easy that was in the boat oh you're the one who's in oh and fuck me it's on the news as well and i'm going what's going i'm walking around you know who am i for one minute there i am we're going to win the league and be anyway long story got home got picked up by by this by one of the sponsors mate and some of the things that was being bandied about that i was accused of fucking hold on a minute some i didn't know i generally did not know what was going on generally or and on art whatever you want to call it i ain't you listen i ain't there to upset anybody or to do anything i was worried about getting the best team out on the pitch for that football club treat everybody the same in my opinion right monday's come like the sunday bang the balloon's gone up monday the lma we're doing what we can do and the americans are doing you can imagine it not doing the gun i thought i'd be back doing the gun we played satin on the tuesday all the fans are protesting to bring me back and all these sorts of things because they know you know following what there i am fucking sky tv two days stuck outside my house microphone cameras have been done for segregating a changing room won't let blacks change with whites won't let blacks eat with whites won't let what the fuck are you talking about i've come back from the gym do you want to go on the holidays do you know all these things is then two days follow my missus my missus working in the hospital called the hospital uh ocean hospital and i'm my edges you can imagine it what have i done i still generally still genuinely did not know not one person told me couldn't get contact the fa couldn't contact you know the lma was being really good the club didn't want to know club didn't even back me the club didn't even i haven't spoke to nobody from the club since then about it you know and that you sign these disclaimer things that you're not allowed to say this and say that but there was nobody that who do i turn to so i've got good supporters like you know kief and that who used to be one of the sponsors there and and fragy and them they was good to me they helped me they sort of like knew the injustice of it because they come at the games they've seen the atmosphere at the club the players are phoning me up what's happening blah blah blah louis go what's going on what's louis i don't know all of a sudden sky spoke sky knew sky everything else i've done this i've done that i've done everything else what are you 28 charges or something you were 28 charges i said yeah listen it's still me being silly me well they're gonna know that it's all bullshit anyway you know it's from players that i've released obvious still not knowing all the players were officially and of course from there i've made a tenement coming down so see when you've got many charges that you actually get i think there was originally there was 28 because that's a lot of charges or one or two you're thinking you've got a fighting chance there you go so who leaked his stories to the papers do you know nobody still knows nobody knows and the fellow that wrote it in the pay bar who um the fellow called matt hughes from the daily mail um who i phoned up and he wouldn't tell me where it was um anyway they'd done quite a few other stories the daily mail and they was getting their information from somewhere that was totally contradicting everything you know as as the year went on the contradicting us of all the all the charges and all the stories just didn't didn't you know link up so i'm waiting to go again i've gone on the holidays and these charges are just growing and growing and growing and people are going fucking hell it's it it's a stupid stupid statement it was just like when the jibby several things blew it started up with one then i'm thinking okay now what's all this going on generally now i'm thinking going up in that going what have i done i know my mates are funny i can't take that fucking nose it's all right but you don't take no no because you ain't got press sitting outside your door you ain't got them following your misses to work you know my boy if you can fume everybody's sort of like in my street in my cul-de-sac thing and uh from there it the club never had anyone in the club the club paid me off and that never sacked me i then picked the paper up john yem sacked for racism um races we can't have races at the football club quote so and so so and so you phone up and go well i'm not racist what you're telling i'm racist these are accusations they're not they're not done deals they're accusations right john yem's sacked from calling never sacked i'm never one never sacked it was an untenable workplace which you know you can't talk about the deal and all that but it was what do i do i don't want to leave the club we're gonna get promoted oh okay not a mention from the club not a mention but three weeks later i didn't get a call up the fa i've got to go make a statement to the fa and you walk in there and i'm not being funny it was like you're going in the old bayley but it's not it's not by law you're it's by the fa rules it's not a court of law so it's not criminal charges no so everybody going on races don't roll you're racist you this year no you're not let's prove it let's just see what we've got to do so i go through my statement and i listed the four boys that i thought would make the statements and they wouldn't tell me and then at the end they i knew i said there you go i you know some of the accusations and i told them i started straight from the bat i never changed one bit of my statement from day one um there was the there was no witnesses the only witness that come out of 60 i think uh then they see i said there's under employees including all the stewards and all that how many statements was taken off of them under including the players the staff and everything how many statements was taken would you say you're doing an investigation not sure none the only statements that were taken was from the boys that made the accusations and the club chaplain came forward there were six people not one player was asked they still went for the pfi to turn up they still went for the fi to turn up to question the players so see because it's nearly 30 accusations it is a lot so see them the the owners uh crawly can you understand well wait a minute they don't want racism and the club do you think they threw you under the brus like how do you how do you see it i listen they're new owners in the club but let's let's put it in a nutshell this is this is the johnny m's world they they put forward all these allegations a day after the club was sold so you've got new owners that have read in these new internet whatever they knew about these allegations one why did they wait and why didn't they do an investigation because the club never interviewed anybody the club never asked anybody anything never asked me anything they they then phoned me up and asked me 10 questions it was like mastermind sort of thing and i thought played the game i was you won't get your money and i'm still waiting for the investigation i'm waiting for lee to be questioned i'm waiting for louis to be questioned i'm waiting for the physios to be questioned waiting for the fitness coach to be questioned i'm waiting for the players to be questioned and they will tell you that all this is a lot of bollocks right that didn't happen so the club in its wisdom i understand a little bit where they was coming from but i wouldn't i would have thought the club would have backed me being a manager until you've done an investigation logic or not i don't know but you know the season was ending there we only three weeks before the end of the season so this was all going through the summer but once that racism card gets played you'd have seen family members and friends like that questioning that and thinking they can lose our careers people lose our livelihood massively mate massively and but what you don't see you don't see me on the other side who's going through it all you're sitting there going well i could i could understand everybody i felt sorry for the players the players was phoning me players were fantastic with it all the owners the old owners was phoning me supporters was phoning me we've known you years you wouldn't do this and in the end i once again my nut had gone i was under the psychiatrist with the f a lma for a little while still thinking it's all going to resolve itself i think we do these the so-called interviews with the f a which are done and then they're talking about do you know this this pre and yeah yeah i know everybody yeah but i'm still not a boller not admitting to anything because i don't know what to admit to you're telling me all these things we then have a trial it's a trial like this they appoint three people it's not a trial it's an inquiry because once again it's not against the law all these things are against me and and yet there's not one legal one legal challenge sort of corpus or another involved no but there's another thing because uh cruelly got a little bit in trouble they put a statement out once that the police told them to drop the charges blah blah blah and the police turned around says nothing to be charged with nothing at all there's no charges as far as we're concerned there's nothing there there's you know and i knew a couple of coppers and i've done a little bit of homework with people i know and uh there's nothing there's no where's the evidence you know it's here say all these charges was based on here say they're what against yours your word against mark but there's five of them remember so i went you're fucked you're fucked you're fucked but it sounds a lot of charges but if but the three or four of them if they all do a check like four charges each we'll straight away you're on 20 charges isn't you so it's still not in my head i'm still not ringing true so i've got people good people in the game giving me references to take to the fa but when are you going to go talk to the players when are you going to interview when we get to this trial and to my knowledge and i've got all the statements as i've showed you this morning i've showed you all the legal evidence there's not one person that's been interviewed well how could this one be fair and most importantly of all what what what is your uh intention what's your narrative what you're trying to do i had the the um people in that's what give me the um more than anything and it happened afterwards when you get these people so-called pundits and people writing in the press black players oh you should be doing it you know i don't know it's not a black and white thing for me it was just it was just these players if that makes sense because i still don't know what they are this man should be banned from football this man should be thrown off you know this man should be sent to mars this man you you don't know me well you said you know me you don't even know the players you just know that they've said these things that it's got to still be tried with right so we then go through the trial or through the inquiry and some of the things that when i got the statements and i was alleged to have said and what i got tried with mate was i'm sitting there thinking this is a fucking wind-up you know prime example two players was playing darts two black players it was allegedly playing darts and i've gone up to now one of the black players said there was just two of them playing darts brilliant i've gone up to them and said what you two throwing the darts we should be blowing them they blow darts right the other person who was playing darts with him turned around and said we was playing darts and there was he named five players that was watching them play so one of them says there was nobody there the other one says there were six of them there so my natural reaction is when i was reading it well go and ask one of the six players that was there if it happened didn't ask anyone why i don't know they still charge me i i said you've seen the film terminator yeah do you know the actor in it um arnold that's what's no go i've got charged for that as well i emphasised the n word in his name second exact name second name and that once again but it wasn't by the people i was talking to this was by people that was listening into the conversations i then get accused of saying to two lads do you go fishing no we don't go fishing gaffer is that because you've stabbed all the fish what next question follow-up question in the book was did what did he mean that all black people stabbed things yes that's what he meant all right so the other fellow that the other one that was one who was fishing the other one who was fishing the other witness then turns around says yeah i'm sorry they had a witness all the same people the same five that he had witnesses yeah i was there i heard it i heard the gaffer say you stab all the frogs well done he said fish he said for the intention was you said that they stab things this isn't like me being a court of what are you talking about i stab thing that's a charge right when you're not playing when you're not playing at a football club if you're if you're segregated from the team segregation never heard the word before in my life segregation heard it but always in america i segregated the changing rooms got dropped all the charges against me wouldn't let blacks do this with whites and wouldn't let they dropped all them because the lads i think it might have been lynching i'm not sure one of the lads has phoned up and said this is all bollocks all bollocks this so they dropped the charges right not apology that don't go into paper and say hold on these lads lied about that charge this didn't happen sky don't come around my when i got done the other week about apologizing when i said i want an apology it wasn't i want an apology they cut it a little bit i don't want an apology my wife my family my friends do that you've sent sky tv around my house on allegations that have been thrown out of water do i get an apology no by this time my edge you know squidily diddly like so i'm going all through this trial and there's these things going on you then get called saying someone i'm it's a four of them i think which was jokes one of them one of the lads after the game we beat swindon and the indian lad was sitting there and uh he said uh i went up and he's sitting in her face like a smacked ass now we're sponsored by dominos pizzas remember this every game we get pizzas delivered every game and i'm sitting here and he's sitting there all me as well so what's the matter you know curry pizzas right because that's something i'm doing the press i'm buzzing all of a sudden that's offensive to him you know well if it is well okay say something and forget it sort of thing you know i didn't sort of like purposely go out say curry pizza well what are you upset about all you have a hole you know if players are a whole gaffer fucking we just won we just beat swindon top of the league side that's another charge and i'm going listen i don't know what i'm going to say the football league then tell me the fella said mr james your language and your outlook is in the past your london history or this your you know your background blah blah blah it's sort of things that's got to be forgotten now you shouldn't be talking like this or thinking like that and i said well listen i'm very very sorry about that but i'm bought up the way that i was bought up i've not said never been never will be racist about anything intentionally never in a million million years and i'm proud to come from south london i'm proud to be what i am and that's me done i'm sorry but that's the way i am okay so you think that what was the number there was another crowd oh yeah i was accused of saying to it was not cues we've got a player greek player nick the bubble all right you can't call him nick the bubble of you ask them why is that because nick was in the paper his name was in the paper through being aggressive i was taking the mic out of his greek heritage and his greek roots and his greek this and greek that i sit and greek dancing i was doing greek dancing at the training ground and i'm thinking i keep what you think i'm damaged roots also you know i mean what wait nick never said a word he phoned me out practically crying gaff i give him his chance i signed him gaff i didn't say didn't do this didn't get it's in the paper so people believed it his mom and dad and his agent were trying their best to get to get whoever told the story to sue him see you're at the inquiry but why was the players and nobody backing you then did not you called his witnesses anything i think you couldn't it's not like a court where people can go and fight your corner oh you can so why didn't you have them there yeah because see that i'm glad you said that because if i'm disagreeing if i'm saying it didn't happen how can i then get people to come along and say james do us a favor you know the other these two are saying that i stabbed fishes can you come and say i didn't say that when you come up and say well he didn't say that well then i've already said it didn't happen so now you're lying you're just backing me through saying it it didn't happen because you know i've got references from go i'm a player you'd walk through the years the sale at the end of races gone what is that races to you races to me it's changed over the years what i know now and what it is i think that if you discriminate against anybody through color sexual agent orientation wherever they're from if you if you if i'm stopping you doing something because you're different to me then to me i'm a racist maybe that's very naive on my point of view but that's the way that i look at it i would not do anything that would upset you through your creed color religion anything like that never in i want you to be one of us because i need you playing for the football team don't care we had we had black players playing for me why didn't i interview the black players that was playing for me if i was such a bastard none of them come forward against me so it meted to four and they don't know for 11 11 in the end but these are the 11 are arnold sorgs and nigger jerk oh getting back to the dali jamalic days sorry i'm wassling on with this because it's just send you to the moon um dali jamalic when was it dali jamalic when i played there there used to be a little chicken shop in peckham rye right where the boys used to go after the game have a bit of jerk chicken have a bit of curry whatever they was eating as it went on we went back when crouching that was there i'm not saying crouching went there by the way the blades some of the black lads again from peckham from the area used to go to the chicken shop having a bit of jerk chicken and everything right brilliant when i first went to the club there was a player there that had played for dali jamalic so i and this other fella who was the he is the shitster amongst it all um this this fella said to him oh when you was there did you used to use the jerk chicken shop in peckham no i can't have all that i said i fucking good food that i said i used to eat a bit of it what it was this place used to be open practically all night when even when we was kids and you go to get bag of chips do what you've got to do and i said the manager you eat no no no i don't eat all that i said fucking good be a bit of jerk chicken well well well you know like just as you did i then get accused of mentioning a caribbean food to a black player who's not from the caribbean so i've got nick for mentioning jerk chicken the putter because i'm mentioning it because of their color nothing to do with their color the jerk chicken was a reference for playing for dali jamalic which the boy did right when he left i never mentioned jerk chicken again because i know the others didn't play for dali jamalic and yet that's a charge when you see the you know impress food caribbean jamalic jake chicken um stabbing fish blah blah blah i'm looking at you thinking i didn't say half of this yes the jerk chicken i did say but i'm telling you how i said it i did say arnold swolzer nigger i've said it again arnold swolzer nigger it's not me what's the word trying to be basis with it it's the dame do you know a lot of stuff that you've said has been took out of context context is is listen i i i i i went all through this trial that the actual first panel who had a kc who obviously the heart one of the eyes you can get in in the in the law of profession i had an ex professional football atonio garner plate the lead and there was a secretary of wolverampton wanderers who was there as well who was the panel so my as we're going through it now these boys as well remember the boys that i released was a shock horror was the same boys that made the statements that i'd released them these boys have been banned from the club for numerous things as well we had a friendly just to give you a little bit of a background on the lads as well we had a friendly at three bridges where we was playing ready and i think we was my mate it was a he worked at the train station at three bridges gets a phone call mate don't want to worry that the old bill were after a couple of your lads what's going on he said they've just jumped over the train barrier with their tracksuits on and there was a passenger who got pushed fucking out and it's a nick it's a big nick right okay boys come running out the road i said right you you and you fuck up don't want you here what you what what what what do you mean what one of them argued to the cows come home took him down seat my mates didn't call the police cctv there they are jumping over the barrier wouldn't admit to it so i said there you are now fuck off because you're going to get nicked right okay so you do them a favor with that you get the same two of the boys sitting all this is documented it's not me making out two boys sitting in the stand taking the piss out of one of their teammates right who was a black player these two lads are the two lads that as well that i got suspended take the piss out of one of our players playing the captain and and and another lads come up to me said gaffey you got to sort these out these are causing fucking murders so right get in the office blah blah blah one of them's threatened to shoot me giving it all the gunsides outside and all that i said you gonna fucking do what boom boom boom now luckily luckily that the ceo was there urdan and lee bradbury come out and pulled me in and these two are the fucking we're gonna fuck you up we're gonna fuck you up and all that we put them out on loan straight away ain't done bad that's all i'm saying two of them have come back and fucked me up so the ones who was threatening to shoot you oh yeah doing all the guns so it's the one who's made the allegations against you both of them and this is noted down it's not just you know try to read fire shots back read it so when you're then sitting in court and getting you admitted to four things the fa of charge to a living what happened then well you go you go what happened you go through this process four and a half days and like you say it's not like there the the boys have to come up and give evidence and you've got kick racism or kick it out football and you've got this other people and i'm on the phone i'm i'm so kind obviously i'd gone by then my head is just fucking you keep seeing your head's gone would you mean you sure i say do i wasn't that bad i just wanted it at the end because i'm going over my wife and kids not so much to my boy and that but i'm going i'm looking at you now as a friend thinking you think i'm fucking racist you know i'm not but back in your mind you're going you dirty bastard i didn't i just i couldn't trust anyone i was looking at people four death threats i got police had to come around four times not mentioned about that not that i wasn't too concerned about that to be honest because the the fellow the police couldn't find the fellow that was doing it but put it this way he was found and uh he admitted it but the police i'm saying four death threats not not a mention not no help at all from anybody the lma was good but not at help you know i'll keep hearing about these boys mental well for not which listen i totally agree with if it was doing them arm uh you know i can't me not a mention not a jot of where i was doing or how you come in open you see your mrs in tears some nights waiting for it all to end you remember i'm not a work remember i can't work for anybody you know there's people letting me out come and do this come and do that i didn't i couldn't i couldn't face anybody i couldn't face and when when i was getting a few of the black lads phoning me and and wishing me all you know that that used to perk you up because a lot of the players was being different class gaffer we know it ain't true the truth will come out and all this sort of thing hints me coming on something like this because nobody nobody at the time wanted to talk to me nobody would listen to my side of it nobody would even you know how can you not take how can you not speak to the players how can you not speak to the staff that was there with me regardless racism so once it's there everybody's too scared there you go everybody's again our sport killers has got the cancel culture if people are back in you the racist well of course of course but they can they can then at least james they could turn around and say well these allegations but when you then got the picture of the boys that are saying it and don't get me wrong i'm too bright i'm not blaming the lads too much it's the process that went on straight away from making the allegations to having it in the newspaper and on the tv within a day without anyone asking me without any any support behind the allegations bomb it's in the press so you're you're free now then away from on before you kick a ball wouldn't you so everything that you went through then with that like when did you get the 18 month ban how long after well that was it you why it was january and my barrister was really good and and i'm going so you need a barrister a barrister oh yeah oh yeah you've got a barrister you've got a solicitor but they make you laugh and i don't mean it's if it's disrespectfully i don't care but you're there it's supposed to be a court of law and it's not a court of law member all these against their rules nothing in out in the street out in the street wouldn't stand up right i've been told because you do need witnesses and you do need statement well go and do it if you if you think i'm that bad why didn't you do that in the first place you know why why why if you you've suddenly come back after saying you was going to fuck me up you've done a good job on it so anyway so you wait and then about i don't know two three weeks later i'll get the call john's got to tell you they've banned you for 18 months but good news they found you're not to be racist did not use this racist language within 10 and you didn't lie because they checked your statements from day one to see whether you've made any change as it goes through i never changed it never changed the names never changed anything right wallop the press came down this is this is wrong they accused the f a and the press of accused the f a's panel of being racist right well the referent that the panel is now racist you've got everybody and i'm now being burnt at the stake because i've got a there was one headline i've got to get out of jail free card get out of jail free card i've got 18 months of no money banned then there's death threats mrs going do lally you know bless is not the best the best of time but and all that going on you know you don't know what's going on you can't people great people like keven and everyone else back in you and people wouldn't mind where i'm from everybody was backing me if i was wrong they'd be the first to tell me what a fucking joey i am they wouldn't have it you know and from all walks of life they knew they've known me for 30 odd years not to get one not one accusation to suddenly get 20 from that yeah through four people that you'd release from the football club does it make sense or don't know get the 18 months i'm sitting there thinking oh no my barrister phones me up got some bad news i said go on don't tell me it's 20 months or something easy because he's saying to me they can't yeah so i'm not racist they can't find me racist and that's when they was on about old-fashioned language at the time prince harry was on the uh i think it was harry talking about the royal family being conscious racist as well all of a sudden i'm there a conscious racist tell me i don't know what you know explain to me don't label me with all these things so then obviously it comes to this day late the f a they was a day outside of their terms of appealing against the decision of 18 months so i said but how can you appeal against your own panel it was an independent panel his independent means cut or dry good or bad win or lose uh no it's not like that well where is it then well we think that they this this and this and i did i did i fuck me well what was that my barrister's guy my barrister was absolutely fuming with it never been heard of never been done never been done before so i've been told and i'm i'm going well what does that mean me then so they said well there's another trial another inquiry you can't call it a trial because it's not legal but you can call it an inquiry until it until the result comes and then you're guilty so anyway so i've i've fucking i've gone all through this and once again you think you've settled and then voila and sport in chance keith contacted the sport in chance for me tony adams his his company might they have been fantastic you got them i they've got fantastic been fantastic helping me they've seen what's been like in the press and they've seen they've made no they're not judgmental they're not making any judges you did you didn't but all they get to know you with and and i think i'm on my 15th less 15th you know the fella he phoned me every every day and they've been every day every week they've been really really good because they felt i didn't realize how much it was it affected me i was driving around my car one two o'clock in the morning sometime what the fuck am i doing here why am i wasting my time why am i why am i being accused of all these things yes i like a laugh yes i like did i intentionally set out to maliciously ruin or talk about anybody no no and you could but you could i even offered to sit in a room with the fa with the kick racism out with them all put me in a room and let's just see what i did and didn't do and you can i went on the courses i went on the fa course i've done all that done it all yeah the education courses i never realized that you couldn't say colored anymore didn't realize 30 years it's been banned massive it's massive they said to me in the trial you use the word colored a lot you know it's been banned i don't you should know i don't well you should do it you're right read my statements in there and you've got a couple of the lads that are making the statements calling them calling color players they're using the word colored in there when we was growing up you couldn't say black black was off can you can't say that you've got to be colored obviously if it's things progress and and it's can understand that how people come right down on it because people do get affected by it some people don't like you clearly like a laugh you've clearly said things out of fucking jest and making jokes and not thinking it's affecting people but the bottom line is it does affect people massively and i don't know me answer and this is what i've said to the fa okay i've done some things but the things i've admitted to but as for the other stuff it's bullshit now tell me tell me what i've done or so anyway so we think and then i'll get a phone call you've got three years a three year ban from football in the whole of the uk i cannot go and do an under 11 side in for three years three years justify a bit why why have you gone against your own panel that you've said was independent that i was prepared to come and speak to you've then didn't like their decision so it's not independent anymore is it they're saying what you want them to say yes but it's the rules we well hold on it's the rules because it's your gentleman's club now if that is the rules so be it but i'd have a question and i think there is a lot of changes that they're talking about because you've been found not guilty and talk i'll take your point 100 percent 150 million percent but the other side of that is if people are making these accusations and they've got no evidence of making them it's a two-way street because how do they think i feel how do they think that they've made these allegations four things i admitted to which was laughs and jokes but that was all with the players the players it wasn't the players that i was joking with that made accusations it's other people listening so were they and it's over two and a half years James it's not like that within a month it's two and a half years not one report to the CEO not one report to Lewis or to breaders like where they can go and say look i think the gaffer said this blah blah blah not one report to the club secretary not one report to the fi not one report to the pfi and all of a sudden you get 20 of them come out yeah on the same day same week so the three years you were there there was not a case there was one every couple of months and if tally dumping says like there's a problem so people's actually just gave all the accusations in one day one day they've all come at one oh it's something as if it's been planned in oh massively massively it's it's too coincidental it's too for my point of view if you're looking at it and you don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to see that the new owners come in the club you then get all these accusations against me whether they're just whether they're not why save them all up to a day that the new owners come in why then suddenly get me the sack which then well it wasn't the sack it was um why get me like you have done i don't honestly think the lads realized i know in the i signed two of the boys i paid money for one of them one of them or two of them are good players they shouldn't be you know i think i backed them the chairman didn't want to see the chairman statement soon he's doing a statement the owners on it because i've waited this time and and nobody to give me the opportunities they keep saying to me apologize apologize for what tell me you know if the four things that i've done that i've omitted to if i upset people in between that i wish you would have let me know and of course i wouldn't want anybody to you know but other than the four there mate come on let's let i've got the statements here i've got the try i've got everything here come and read them and then just tell me what you think just tell me as a body of people what you think i'm listening i say i'm happy to give anybody a voice to yeah have their corner in fact there's two i would happy to sit with you and one of the boys are four of the boys and have a discussion like i'm open to do so see what happens we are an of you we talk sport um i was Simon jordan stuck up for me when it first happened and i vaguely knew simon because i worked at palace um i'm turning like this i didn't know people i knew new simon he was the chairman when i was there and and they said look you give me the opportunity to come on and jim phoned me up and he said i'll give you the opportunity simon and the day that i spoke to him i'd i'd i'd i'd also received two rits from these players that are trying to sue me personally after all this happened so every time you open a letter he's now trying to take me to court fuck me when's this gonna end well one of them's dropped the charges anyway that day that we opened the thing people don't seal that now isn't it every time we was getting a letter me and my missive we're going what the fuck is that now you're getting them from the fa you're getting them from the solicitor you're getting this so jim and i went i've got to tell people my side don't care whether people i do care because everybody wants to hear the truth why don't somebody just listen to what i have to say take it on face value take it whatever the if there's truth in it and you believe it good if you don't i can't help that but this is my side of it this is what i i think soon as i got on jim's first question john you're gonna apologize oh hello jim good morning how are you like you gotta apologize uh what what what are you talking about well you've been charged you've been this you've been that like a machine gun at me boom boom boom boom boom jim calm down your lunatic what's up here i said no i want an apology oh so you know what no no no like i've just said to you i want an apology at the skype of my family for this for that because they dropped the charges if i sit outside your house and terrorized you and really upset all your family and done everything and i said yeah james sorry mate i got you wrong you go for it fair enough that's your job boom boom boom you wouldn't drive away and then six weeks later print on what a bastard i am you know and that's all i was worried about not for me i'm picking up an ugly enough i thought i was until it starts going up here but it's your family you know surely some people can turn around and see that oh but you've had these 12 they're not charges i didn't do half of what they're saying i didn't do three quarters of what they're saying but nobody's interested in that they've taken everything everything as though it's right but why nobody listened to what i've had to say why isn't nobody a hostile players why isn't nobody asked us though going back to our same old story why haven't any of the people been bought forward it's too late now it's done where do you go forward for the future drone um i think you ever get your career back especially with those allegations and charges yeah well the thing the thing with it is you can work overseas and and let's look at it maybe i'm kidding myself but you look at it purely on a football front and we we've turned it round at Crawley and and people were saying what a good side we had you know you've produced players you've worked in football yes sometimes i've got you know you go off at the hip and you and you all are an and you do what you're doing but i i just i'm just worried about the next what our fire if this is what can happen to me without without really really uh i know any racism is bad anything's bad this that any other but if there's no sort of like comeback if you can't defend yourself and every time you get an allegation thrown against them well it's got to be true because no one can't touch that well where do we stop where's the next thing where's the next manager where's the next coach where's the next player who's going to get bombed you know because you can't do this or you can't say that it's it's a frightening world James yeah well allegations destroy lives and it's all manifestations that for me personally the papers shouldn't be able to print anything unless they're charged and convicted fair enough unless they can maybe follow the steps and go through the court cases day by day i get that i played football for years for ages of four many teams the fights and the arguments and the shit that was says was ruthless but like you say if you've got the allegations then you're sitting 30 years in a game is it going to go back day one and people coming out and then you're a fucking absolute monster yeah that fair play for coming on today listen it's been the last three years and people can make their own assumptions yeah people can read the stories and listen to you and then go do you know what yeah i think he's all right he's made a couple of mistakes or i think he's racist that's down to them how you're feeling about speaking today no i was nervous i was nervous i'm frightened that because even now a lot you know we've said a couple of things it's just you don't know you don't want to tell lies you know there's a there's a great book in it for someone it's just the it seems the unfairness of it and i don't want i don't want people to look at me and go whoa me i don't mean it like that the unfairness in life that you could be turned around and like you just said you something up well that how is this going to appear in newspapers and how it can appear on sky tv's without one allegation at the time being checked now they can all be smart asses and go oh yeah but you know there was even one in that they had credible evidence from the club yeah we've got credible evidence what credible evidence yeah it's credible evidence that i saw so that's so there you go but nobody wants to come forward nobody it's all right for me defending myself and like i said you everything i've said today i've got proof of everything that i said today um with the tony um tony adams is thinking that a sporting chance been fantastic it's all there it's not me coming here just to say look at me you know deflect deflect it's not if i've done something wrong i'll hold me hands up as getting back to how we was brought up you hold your hands up you do your time you come out right with this i don't know what hold me hands up to you know if if say an arnold swalts and niggers are a three-year ban if saying jerk chicken to somebody do you eat jerk chickens a three-year ban but they dress it up oh no no you know the f a you said it about this don't tell me what i meant it don't tell me what context i've said it in otherwise you never leave your bleeding house and everything you've said to the people people can fact fact check that fact check if they want to do what they want yeah it's there would you to finish up on anything else john um no just as i say i just talk to yourself it just brings back all the memories of what you've done in the past and just thanks to all the people that i have that i know that have been you know supportive of me and done that what race creed color i've had so many good people and if and if i've upset the lads that i've done or in the future i didn't mean to do it john thanks for coming on today