 But let me suggest that instead I'm going to make these opening comments. But first, is there someone who would like to be the note taker, minute taker, or who's willing to do that? I'm here, Meg. I'm happy to do that for the group. You sure? Absolutely. Thank you. Wow. Thank you. I wanted to do that first because so that we capture. Comments that are made. I'm going to make a few brief comments, which are perfunctory. There's this governor Baker on March 12 2020 suspended certain provisions of the open meeting law chapter 30 a section 18. I sent you a link to that in case you're curious as I was to see what that meant. Basically redefining quorum. Previously a quorum could not include people who were participating remotely. I would like to move the public comment to the end because I've been instructed that this is if we I told Angela that we have only in our whole history had public comment once but public comment is where zoom bombing is most likely to happen. And so it's best to move that to the end. And I wanted to share with everyone and invite Holly and Angela to step in if I missed something here. The way the meeting will work is everybody. If you don't, you don't want people to hear your background. You can go up in the corner with the three little dots. I mean, where it says mute yourself, not the three little dots. And I want to suggest that if people want to speak, let's hope that we're all noticing who's trying to speak, but that we simply move, you know, raise our hand, rather than try to have some. It's not a big enough group to need some technological way of doing that. Hi. Yeah. Did that cover it Angela. Make the only other thing we've been doing. I don't know whether we have to, for the commission is the chair has called out each person's name to make sure they can hear and be heard. So it's okay. So I'll do that. And the meeting has started just so we're, and we're recording this and it'll be available. Many people in the public who might want to watch it. So John Fenske. Here, I can hear you fine. Great. John McCabe. You're muted. But you hear us. Yep. Great. Liz. Larsen. Here and can hear. Great. Holly. I'm here and can hear you all. I'm going in the order in which you appear on my. Gallery, Kathy. Here and can hear. John page. Here. We're getting her here. You were sounded a little bit croaky. Really. There's something odd with your audio. It's like a distortion. Bummer. Are you using the computer audio, John? I don't hear you at all. Any suggestions of what. A couple of times sometimes it's worked. He just rejoins and make sure he chooses computer audio. Other times someone like Athena, who's not on right now has magically solved the problem. And I'm. I'm never quite sure what was done, but we've had this more than once that one person's mic is not working. It's not working. It's not working. It's not working. It's not working. But we can't hear them. Do you have any suggestions? So some people, the workaround would be to try and rejoin and see if that fixes the problem. But if not, they're able to use the video from the computer, but then they dial into the meeting on their cell phone. And those instructions for dial in so that you can hear the meeting. Are on the agenda. I don't think they're on this agenda. I didn't receive that when I. I didn't realize to put that was a good idea. So Kathy, that was a great idea to check everybody's. Video and audio. Um, so, uh, I would like to review the agenda. And particularly because it's a pretty packed agenda. Let's wait for John. Just what I was just. I was just halfway through. Yeah. I said, but let's wait for John. I was just like, No, try and go. Um, are you using earbuds, John? Try and go. No earbuds. Try and go. Just, do you have a microphone on your computer? Are you, you have to turn the Bluetooth off on your computer and just use the microphone for your computer. It's a progress, John. Can you get a little closer to your computer? Maybe it's too far. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. You're not sure. You're not sure. Are you interrupting? Your voice is sort of, is distorted. Maybe try the phone, the cell phone method. But you're also right now, you're showing up as muted for me. Okay. So he's hopped off. He's restarting. Yeah. Dang, I wish I could turn the air conditioner on. Yeah. Shopping for an ergonomic chair. I just started classes. I've been sitting here all day. I'm just tech to, you can get started. I'll restart. Meg, do you know how to share your screen to show us the agenda? Yep. Okay. Well, Cause what will happen is everyone will still see their faces either along the side or up across the top. Yeah. Cool option. I didn't, I sent it again. I sent it again. I sent it again. I sent it again. I sent it again. I sent it again. Cool option. I didn't, I sent it again this morning, but I'm happy to share it. Wrong thing up there. Just a second. Stop share. Yeah, I have it right here. Let's see. Yeah. Why am I keep getting Mandy Joe's thing? No, you have. You got the agenda. There it is. Yours is. Yeah, it's there. Okay, good. So John said to start. Why don't we start? I hate to do that, but let's. I, I identified two goals for the meeting to determine whether to request an amended timeline for the report in light of the changing priorities. And the second was to begin, was the goal of our. Meeting that was canceled in March. To hear and discuss each commissioner's thinking and questions about participatory budgeting. Those are topics eight and nine. Although we move in public comment down. I think that, um, just do people agree that those are the two priorities of this meeting? Yeah. I would like to propose that we swap eight and nine. Great. Because I think that. One could inform the other. Okay, terrific. And, um, I'll give you an update on eight, which is about to be nine. Do people agree with that? Um, I've been in touch with a town manager and he's had an opinion from the town council that we can get an extension. Uh, without any consequence, he recommends that we take it to the. Council, although we're not obligated to do that. Um, and he would like to know what. The length of time we would like. Uh, Extended. So that's all good news. And he also, John and I had discussed before this meeting that he and I would write a memo to the council, but Paul said that there's no need for that. He'll just write one, you know, Well, himself. So that's a, uh, so let's do nine and then eight. Okay. Uh, anything else about the agenda? Looks good. Great. I thought because, uh, We've all been through this extraordinary event. We're still in the middle of it. It would be good to take it. We're still in the middle of it. We're still in the middle of it. We're still in the middle of it. We're still in the middle of it. Just maybe people can pass, but if. Check in how everybody's doing with this. Astonishing global event. We're in the middle of. Everybody healthy. I'll start worth all fine. I'm dreading the winter when we're going to not have the good weather to be outdoors, but, um, Basically feeling grateful to live in the rural area like we do. My family's all fine. Check in how they're doing. Everybody's fine at my house. Um, Right. Just started teaching this semester at HCC just started. Two days ago. Two classes of one of them is a zoom class with 32 kids from Holyoke high school. That's going to be interesting. They go. They get to spend the whole time going like this. But it should be fun. And, uh, Yeah. Yeah. All is good. Everybody. Liz, your family. Okay. Yeah, everybody's fine. I can't see everybody at once. Am I doing something wrong? You have to. Way up the top of this great top. There's a view option and you can make it side by side. If you. I can only get five of us on the screen, but that's okay. I'm going to stop sharing once we've agreed on the agenda, but I don't think we need to be looking at it all the time. Okay. Each other. Yeah. Yeah. John, how are you doing? John page. Good. Can you hear me now? Perfect. All right. Good. I've been on zooms all day. I don't know why it chose to stop now. But I'm, I'm doing well given the circumstances and. Yeah. Nothing. How are you doing? Good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I believe how grueling your schedule is. It's breathtaking. Well, some people get energized by it. So it's a peculiar. Personality peculiarity. Holly. Angela. What are you doing? I'm fine. Just plugging along, taking a day by day. Good. I'm doing great. Thank you for asking. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to. Let's. I'm going to stop the sharing so that we can. See each other more clearly. It's everybody got a good look at the agenda. I can bring it back up whenever we want to, but we're going to first talk about. Share each of our thinking and questions about this number nine that I'm sort of circling my cursor around and then we'll talk about it. And then we'll talk about it. And then we'll talk about it. And then we'll talk about the extension. And schedule our next steps. What is this raising your hand? Oh, we need to approve the minutes first. Yeah, I was just going to do that. I'm just about to approve. Go to the minutes. I want it to stop sharing. So we can see each other when you're raising your hand. Because otherwise. We have to keep scrolling. Okay. Great. If you need the. Agenda again, I can share it again, or I can even. I can share it again. I can share it again. I can share it again. I can share it again. I can share it again for astonishing. Five pages of minutes. From our February 27th meeting. Any comments, any changes? I only wanted to say they were excellent. And I had no changes on them at all. I didn't, I didn't do anything like a proof. Proof them, but nothing even hit me. When I take minutes, I always have typos. I was impressed. You could still find them on your. Like. Luckily. I do have one comment to make, and I'm not sure that it's even really that important, but in the last paragraph on page two, the second sentence says CPA. See proposals can come from any nonprofit organization. I don't think it's necessarily limited to nonprofit organizations. Most of the people who have applied in the past have all been nonprofit organizations or the town itself, but I don't think that that's necessarily, if that's to say there's the only people that can apply. Maybe say typically CPA proposals come from nonprofit organizations. Okay. So we make that change without objection. Yeah. And I think it's a good one. If we take nonprofit out because it clearly sometimes CPA is coming directly from the town government too. So it's a little identity. So just organized from. I guess it says any organization. John, do you have the energy to make that edit? Yes, I think if I just remove nonprofits that fix it. I could do it myself too, but thank you. Any other comments? That was all I had. I want to point out that we had a plan for two meetings in a row. Which were. March 12th. And March 26th. And we had planned, I'm not saying we should do this, but I'm just going to point out that we had a quite a helpful discussion. I thought about planning two meetings ahead. That this one in March 12th is the one we're having now. Work toward whether we have consensus or not around how participatory budgeting might work in Amherst. And then our. Then in February, our idea was that the following meeting. We would focus on outreach. And I. With the community participation officers. And I want to. I'm starting that in my copy of the notes to say, I think that's. The timing for that is not our next meeting. That's related to whether we help, whether we agree to look for an extension and how long it would be. Okay. All in favor of the minutes as amended. Hi. Hi. Okay. It would be really helpful if we could do roll call vote. I'm sorry. Okay. That's okay. Very good. Thank you. John Fenske. I'm going to go in the order. I see you. John Fenske. I'm saying I was waving his hand. May gauge. Yes. I. John McCabe. Yep. Hi. Liz Larson. Hi. Holly Bowser. Hi. Kathy Shane. Hi. John Page. Hi. Okay. Thank you. Minutes approved as amended. So, um, we're going to, uh, we're, uh, Had intended to all be prepared to speak, uh, in five minutes or less about our thoughts on participatory budgeting. Um, I suggest that we go around and everybody does that. And that we only take really true clarifying questions like when you said this, did you mean this or did you mean that? Uh, rather than have a discussion after each one so that, um, We discuss them as a whole. Does that make sense as a process? Okay. Who would like to go first? John happened to, I happened to. I just, I happened to find the legal pad that I wrote something down on in March, uh, for the meeting that got canceled. Um, and I'm glad I found it because I didn't remember what I was thinking. So what I have here, I'll just read it. It says realistically, I, this is just my opinion. I don't know how COVID affects that. Um, but could. Participate. Could PB be a useful process for the town. In a period of fiscal stress. And I think it probably really could be. One possibility would be to seek seed money. That could be leveraged via a combination of, you know, I don't know how COVID affects that. Um, but could. Participate. Could PB be a useful process for the town. In a period of fiscal stress. And I think it probably really could be. That could be leveraged via a combination of academic partnerships. With UMass and Amherst and maybe the other colleges. Um, And maybe have them help us as well seek grant fund, but I know Meg that that that was one of your things over the years, right? It probably is here. You're very familiar with all that. Um, and. Um, I think it's a good idea to pursue, uh, pursue PB as a way to meet small scale local needs beyond the format. Your projects and promote community participation. That's what I wrote down. Great. You're fine questions. I'm not going to call on people if people want to volunteer who anyone would like to go next. That was way less than five minutes. I have a little. I have a little, uh, I'll go next. Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you. I have my notes here. I'm not ignoring you. Um, So before all of this hit, I was kind of leaning in one direction and I think even more, I'm leaning in the same direction. Um, Kathy had a really great memo, um, that she sent around on from February 21st that really outlined where we are right now with, uh, the future of the project. Um, which is the reason why we're so much more interested in, um, in the budget decisions and after reading that and looking over and thinking, um, I don't think that participatory participatory budgeting is viable for amersed at this time. Not to say that it won't be something to do in the future. Um, the reason I think this, I think Kathy really laid out really well in the memo. Uh, we already have three ways that residents have access to not well utilized at the moment. I think those could probably be better promoted to the community and perhaps we get more participation. I guess one thing that I'm particularly concerned about is currently there's no staff support for the existing programs such under the capital projects and CPAC and all of those there's no staff support from the town by adding another something that needs staff support but we don't have the ability to provide for that I think stretches are very limited financial and human resources. I think instead what we should do is focus on incorporating many of the really wonderful ideas and takeaways that we've gotten from our conversations with other communities and we should incorporate these into the existing programs. One thing that definitely would need to be addressed is finding a way to make the final decision the final provision to give the residents the final say over the funding. Right now there are both the town council and the town manager have final say or can veto things and I think we would need to find a way to make sure there is a portion of the funds that the residents have the final say over. Any clarifying questions? Oh yes and also I think that this is something that would be revisited I would suggest that it would be revisited in three to five years. Anyone want to volunteer to go next? Thank you Liz thank you Kathy. Just a muting I'm gonna build on what Liz said because to get ready for today I went back and read what I wrote and I think I had written something else but unlike Jonathan and Liz I can't find it so I just wrote it again. So just one point at the beginning I thought it was really useful when we did the interviews with towns and read about what they'd done to look at what were I thought some key elements that where it was succeeding and operational that most of them with one exception had a sufficient budget that they could set aside some money and just say this is the money and they made it clear it was a one-time expense that it wouldn't be operating budget they had a plan on how to outreach and publicize they had staff support to flesh out the proposal so that you didn't have a one-sentence proposal from someone that couldn't be costed they set up a process where you could vote whether it was district specific or wider and there was staff support for that so given the size of Amherst and how much our staff we have an example here in Angela Angela has I don't know how many different hats she wears and different titles we stretch staff already with a lot of different functions I don't think it's viable now to set up a new process but I do think we can build on what we have so where Liz was saying we have three possible funding routes and the actions I was thinking that could be taken would be keep the proposal period open longer better outreach to neighborhood groups perhaps through the district councilor or our community participants to encourage proposals some kind of a template with staff support or even I started thinking we have some volunteer residents who are really good at this and say here's your idea let's flush it out and work on it to turn it into a coherent paragraph and maybe get at least in theory commitment that some amount of the dollars in the joint capital planning process and or CPA to extend their viable proposals would go toward this so whether it's something like $50,000 but a good faith effort to say these get priority so I thought building on what we have would be really good and I do think the point Liz made we have to check legally legally I'm not sure we can actually require a portion without some kind of a bylaw because even the council has this funny is the wrong word on JCP see the capital planning group where I chair we make a recommendation to the town manager and he comes back to the council with a budget with or without our complete recommendation that is listening it's interactive the council can cut but not reallocate so so we have these limits in the charter so if we actually wanted to say $50,000 each year or up to $50,000 each year would unless there are no proposals I'm not sure how we would do that we might need a bylaw we might need something so so that's where I'm going to stop that I came out with that I think we could we've got opportunities to make what we have better and one person on CPAC has opened up a Facebook page and there's been a subcommittee to talk about how can we get outreach because there's money to be spent and they don't always have excess proposals you know as boy we can only fend 10 and we only get nine you know so we'd like to get them up so he I think if we ever wanted to have that person come and talk with us he could talk about whatever ideas they've had on outreach you know how could they solicit make it clear that this is a townwide although it has to be in the categories that CPAC can fund that's the end of mine I have one clarifying question I apologize at the beginning you said you went back and looked at your notes and then you referred to a group that I couldn't I didn't hear you were reporting on what recommendations was it CPAC made beginning of your remarks no I just said the memo I wrote at the beginning and then my view of when we went through all the different towns and cities was and we had a meeting I think where we talked about what were some of the key elements of success that seemed to be important to these so this this list of you know the budget the outreach the staff support didn't just come from my head it was also it was we talked about that each of them seemed to have that in some way some started with foundation support clearly but then they embedded it in the town and the town staffing thank you any other clarifying questions one Kathy did I miss here I thought in the beginning you said there there were three vehicles yeah the third one is the community development block grant I can reason no so you know for CPAC you know each has what can it be used for resident capital proposal can only be used for capital so it's one time in investment CPAC has open space conservation which has recreation in it community housing historic CDBG is a targeted more on low and moderate income but it's the one where you could have operating budget it can be social services you know so it could be a summer program it could be an after-school you know so it's got that additional flexibility if people had ideas okay next volunteer to go next I go next thanks John okay so my notes what I was going to say back in March first of all I just like to go to a very abstract level and talk about general criteria for what makes for good participatory budgeting and I think based on what we've seen and discussed so far we would all agree maybe not but anyway I think it would involve especially increased citizen participation and ideally permanently it would reduce or not add to the work of staff town staff of the town manager and the town council again this is all ideally it would pay for itself or even make money by finding outside funds and it would help to give everyone the sense that funding is being allocated in ways that are more obviously in line with town priorities whatever they may be so those are the the general criteria I know and what we've seen so far and I may be misrepresenting this or being unfair but I get the sense that we're talking in most of the examples we've looked at we've we've seen towns putting aside a pot of money that is used as a lure a kind of a bait to stimulate citizen participation engagement and you know that that has its problems and I might be able to get on board with with recommending that Amherst do something like that I'd like to actually focus my remarks on something else which is what I'd call a stretch or reach goals ambitions for participatory budgeting and by that I mean I think that we ought to consider participatory budgeting in a much broader way and I think it could be an opportunity to enhance citizen participation in ordinary recurring and especially thorny budgetary issues that is on the issues where town officials need the most help so for example I think that it would help to clarify the level of tolerance among citizens for the current level or even a higher level of the real estate tax burden another way to talk about that is say the next time an override referendum comes up is the town going to be ready to debate that will people understand what's involved you know could participatory budgeting help people to be prepared for this crunch time when we talk about do we really accept the current real estate burden and on top of that are we willing to engage in an override a referendum there's a on a much smaller scale there's the hot potato issue of town council compensation I am from what I can understand we spend around seventy thousand dollars to compensate the town counselors and the president and personally I find it a huge bargain I see them working like crazy all the time and I think it might make sense to consider an increase in that compensation and yet I think of it as a hot potato that is the kind of thing the town council and the town manager are probably not that well equipped to address and how could participation by citizens help people to understand the pros and cons of a small amount a token amount versus something that's more substantial in order to have a town council that is adequately compensated there are other things along these lines you know I've been to meetings where people have brought up I've seen firefighters present who've said look we haven't been adequately funded for years and years and more recently it's come to people's attention there are a lot of folks in town who are interested in looking closely at the police department budget you know are we adequate are the citizens of Amherst do they have enough information readily available and as they have ways to think about this that are structured in helpfully I don't know I'm just asking all of you to think about participatory budgeting in a more ambitious way that would engage the citizenry in ways that would be helpful to the people who have to make these these thorny decisions and finally just a couple of points I think it might be useful if budgeting discussions could standardize and regularize what I might call helpful public budgeting math I'm thinking of things like price tags for significant items being put in and maybe this is done I've seen numbers like this on on the budget sheets but it might be helpful to highlight price tags as a percent of operating or capital budget or to see price tags that show the impact on the tax rate or the median or typical taxpayer bill and then finally there are possibly a specific and useful benchmarking that can be done for how budgeting is done I'm thinking of best practices elsewhere and especially since I've seen it come up so many times how do we count students when we're talking about per capita things I mean it's not really obvious to me that you can take one number or the other the number of of residents without the students or the num all the residents including the students anyway that's I spent a lot of time on what I call these stretch reach things which are maybe you know beyond what others are interested in but I I would like to see participatory budgeting try to tackle or include those items too thank you great clarifying questions sure okay I have one but then I'll build on it later I think these were incredibly thought stimulating ideas so if it's part of what you're thinking is that providing enough information that people could participate in a discussion about thorny issues and whoever the decision-makers would be could get public feedback having given them enough information you know so I heard these like pulling you know like on the one hand on the other so it's it's it's trying to get package you know like police and fire you know what are the issues what do we have look you know we'd have to get and then you could have the larger conversation right yeah well there's that and I mean at a finer grain level you might you know ideally you would hope for something amounting to continuous polling I mean we're getting all kinds of polling now about the presidential election so you know I happen to know where North Carolina stands and so forth and so on it would be useful in town I think if you and the other counselors and the town manager had a sense of where people stood on thorny budgetary issues in a rather continuous fashion instead of episodic and driven by people's interest in the topic or or the what I like what the self-identified participant participants in town discussions you know it comes to ahead when you have a referendum or for that matter a town council election I suppose but I I don't know exactly what this would amount to but I'm saying that to my mind participatory budgeting ideally ought to be about citizens being well-informed and being continuously polled there we go thank you okay any more clarifying questions John just speaking support of John's idea you mentioned and I really wasn't paying close attention so I might have it all wrong but when there when the defunding of the police issue came up I heard Scott Livingstone say sure you want to have the conversation let's have the conversation and I don't think should I seem like it didn't happen what a group with a very sort of extreme version of police defunding got their thing out there in the council was forced to vote it down it could have I heard Scott saying sure let's talk about what priorities police should be focused on and what you know mental health and other things that might possibly be handled better some other way and it seemed like we never got a chance to have a conversation so let's pin that for our discussion after we go through so we have Holly John and myself up shall I go next or Holly do you want to go next or John doesn't matter to me you're not obligated to say anything if you're not don't want to I can go next okay great I've been I think this conversation transitioning to what are our next steps and I've been a little bit conflicted because participatory budgeting might be just one of the things that we need right now when there's unrest people feel like they're disconnected from the democratic process and also we've seen at least through work with downtown businesses micro grants can be helpful and even if it's small amounts those little projects and little things can make a difference so while that makes me lean into we should keep working on this and a formal participatory budgeting process I think politically and financially it's just not feasible at this time we're asking you know the town manager and then town council to make really tough decisions about who and what to cut and then they're gonna have to find a space for this right now which doesn't seem realistic however I do like the idea which we've talked about since the beginning of can we increase the participation in resident capital requests CPA CDBG and really the whole budget process so we could continue this I think we need to ask for an extension how much an extension I'm not quite sure and I think we can resume a conversation about a formal participatory budgeting process later a key element of which will have to be private funds whether from the schools or fundraising or what but I think that conversation we're gonna have to put on hold for at least a year any clarifying questions so shall I go next holly or do you want to go next it doesn't matter either way well I'll go next so I'm not last you can be the last I wrote mine out so that I would be sure I didn't go over five minutes and it's actually under four minutes and this is what I wrote before so the dates are all off but I didn't want to rewrite it because we don't we haven't had the conversation about timing my thinking so I'm apologize for reading it but anyway my thinking is motivated by my commitment to increasing meaningful participation by Amherst residents in the new government well I feel and based on my experience on the Charter Commission well I feel I feel that while our new government is more efficient than the old there are very few mechanisms for meeting but like for meaningful participation for me what makes participation meaningful is participation that gives residents power to influence policy decisions opportunities that are open to all meaningful participation is about people having actual power meaningful participation has to be more than informing consulting and placating unhappy read individual residents of course government has to be responsive to people with problems but having your problem solved in my opinion isn't meaningful participation and recently on the council I'll just say this in as nice a way as I can not Kathy at all but there have been council members who appeared to dismiss public input and I just I let me just keep going what I wrote I hope we will be able to reach consensus around a proposal for participatory budgeting for Amherst that determines the allocation of a hundred thousand dollars of which I propose half would be raised from private sources I feel a hundred thousand is an amount that would be meaningful and would motivate people to propose projects and to vote for this to be credible I feel we would have to secure five years of private funding to assure the program commitment would be for more than one year I envision a one year PB calendar with proposals submitted developed winnow down and submitted to the public in the six months between June and November with voting in December based on funding allocated in the previous fiscal year projects would be implemented beginning in January this calendar puts the majority of the work outside the November to May period when town staff are busy developing the next FY town budget I see a successful PB program depending on the participation of nonprofit organizations and town agencies like the council on aging as well as the schools and school organizations as well as neighborhood and district groups robust outreach as well as the figuring out the logistics of how the program would work the role of volunteer committees the method of voting the use of software to facilitate project development clarifying the specific role of town staff is too much for our commission to undertake and doing so would create a rushed and perhaps poorly thought out proposal that risks failure and unpopularity my experience on the charter commission taught me how hard it is and how the outcome can be flawed when a group is rushed putting together a complicated new program therefore I propose creating a second committee an implementation committee tasked with implementing the new PB program thinking through exactly how it would work with numerous interactions with different community groups and town school staff and town agencies how voting would happen the operating budget and guidelines for the projects I suggest that we make a proposal to the council to go forward with PB for Amherst assuming we have secured the five year fifty thousand dollar a year match commitment for a total of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars I propose we spend time creating a thoughtful and detailed charge to the implementation committee that would work through twenty twenty one that's off year long to put the program in place this would give enough time to build interest and for people to start envisioning projects they would like to propose while the implementation committee works out logistics and procedures the charter commission envisioned the community participation officer would be part of the staffing for this project the town's twenty twenty two budget approved in May twenty twenty one would include funding for the first year of PB which obviously those years are wrong which would begin with proposals submitting in May of twenty twenty two and voting in December of twenty twenty two one of the strengths of participatory budgeting is how it encourages people to work together to get what they want not just as individuals this is how influencing government works building support from enough different people compromising and having meaningful means of participation this is the core of what democracy is this is the core of that truck this is the core of what truck went by Kathy's house then came down here any clarifying questions yeah I I have a clarifying question I reread the material written by Mandy Joe Hanakie and you know you use this expression meaningful participation and I think I was reminded that Kathy did a useful review of these actual bodies that invite or in part participation but didn't in fact the charter in institute several forums there were public forums as I recall and and the purpose they were new and the purpose was to stimulate citizen participation I went to a couple of them on budgeting and to be truthful I think each time there were more people up in the front of the room than there were in the audience but I'm just I'm just adding that these were instances of meaningful participation that the charter attempted to institute that of course are well short of something like participatory budgeting well some of us on the charter didn't think those were that we saw them as a way of sharing information with the public but didn't see them because they were presentations largely of the status of where things stood rather than decisions yet to be made but I don't want to get beyond clarifying questions any other clarifying questions I just wanted I do want to say that I agree with what you just said John I mean it was an attempt and there's even a requirement that at least half the time be questions and answers and comments and so it was an attempt to get whether it had it has not worked but it was an attempt to provide information before a decision was made well before a decision was made and it has worked when we've had what you called the thorny issues you know so the one budget hearing we had there was extensive comments on police you know so it just an example any more clarifying questions before I move to Holly my little Holly okay well I didn't really prepare any moats I had sort of forgotten that this was supposed to take place but so I'm glad that I went last because I've been thinking a lot while you all talked and jotting down some things that I wanted to to comment on so you know in the beginning I was I was pretty excited about this I thought that it would be really exciting to get residents involved and I was really on board for getting like schools involved and school children involved and neighborhoods involved and you know whether it be you know water fountains or park benches or bike racks and low-income neighborhoods and you know things for children playgrounds whatever I thought it would be a pretty fun and exciting way to get people to participate I am just really sort of starting to see that and throughout this whole process when we saw some of the you know other municipalities that were doing it they were so organized they were so on top of it it was so much participation resources time energy you know media I just with everything that's going on right now I'm starting to sort of see that I I'm not sure that this is the right time for it especially right now when things are going to be probably financially unstable in the next year or two I think that trying to get people on board with this is it's just gonna be a tough sell right now like many of you mentioned I think Liz and Kathy you know staff time resources unless we had somebody who could really be dedicated to this and could really push on this I'm just not sure that right now this is the right time I do think we have some good programs that are in place and that are definitely underutilized on the CPA the CDBG the JCPC and I was thinking about the budget forums as well and you know that that is something that is fairly new and certainly people are showing up but I don't think enough people are showing up we now with the counselors have district meetings which we never had before where the counselors are going out and having you know little town meetings in their districts and I have not participated in any of those but I'm curious as to what the participation is in those types of things so I think and again in my own opinion I think that what we really sort of need to do is to focus on the things that we have in place right now and try to find out how we can continue to enhance those and get them to be utilized in a better way to get more people involved you know if we had the money right now I would be a lot more excited to work on this but especially with you know everything that's going on in the last six months I'm just really not sure right now how we should proceed and where where we should go. Okay any clarifying questions for Holly? This invites a discussion which we won't have now of how long of a well maybe we don't want any extension we're just gonna fold the towel but I'm not gonna I hope that doesn't happen. Meg, if you had on the agenda the next thing would be talk around the ideas we just heard. That's what I'm saying. Okay. What we're gonna do now is talk about the ideas we just heard and I have a suggestion for doing that in a ration you know so everybody participates. I'm saying it it begs the question of timing but we're not going to discuss that until afterwards but obviously different people's remarks had implications for different lengths of of a extension or no extension at all but I'm hoping we're gonna go for the extension and not but so let's keep that in mind that we're also thinking about our next agenda topic which is how long an extension are we gonna request. So why don't we take turns commenting on what we heard and then see if we can identify two or three areas where we have agreement or maybe it's also important where we absolutely don't have agreement. Obviously it's a hard time now and very difficult to know how to how to interpret the fact that we're in the middle of a global crisis that has a direct effect on this project that we're working on. So let's take turns commenting on what we heard and asking each other questions if we want to and this doesn't mean speeches but working if we can toward places where we agree and perhaps clarifying where we don't agree as a process of group kind of reaching. I guess I'll start that by just off by saying it seems like several people were of the similar minds that we have some processes in place and maybe we should focus on improving those processes versus putting new and totally different processes into place. So I'm gonna just pull that as a topic processes in place are they what are they adequate can they be developed expanded and staffed in a way that would be significant. John? Yeah I was I was thinking of Holly's remarks which make me think that one possible model for continuing an extension or a new version of this commission would be to work on the last thing she said that is to try to bring together enhance bring regularity and clarity to existing opportunities and processes on the one hand but on the other hand to find some way to put on hold or on a back burner or to study further the things that are costly and are perhaps asking too much of the town at this particular moment. This is just a you know a half-thought-out idea about what we might be proposing so just to clarify again that one half would be work on what we have now that would be low cost and it would just be about regularizing and going forward with those things and making them more effective and on the other hand having nevertheless a new or renewed commission be a back burner study group that would be ready for the time when the town is ready a year or two from now. Right I apologize I had intended to acknowledge Angela who's not on our commission but she's here staffing the meeting if you want to comment Angela you know please do but I'm not asking you to right now just wanted to acknowledge that you're sitting in our group and you have you know you might have ideas are there other comments about anybody want so I'm suggesting that you kind of raise your finger at your hand if you want to speak Kathy. I agree with what John just said as I went around where one two three four five six people and I think at least one two three four five one two three four five six seven people and five people we're talking about building on what we have now but making it more effective and trying to think of what would that mean what specific kinds of things do we think can be done to make each of these avenues work better and I don't think we can independently we can come up with them as conceptual but I think we'd even need an extension because I'd like to work with the groups that now staff those and you know I'm a district counselor so certainly if it was right if I knew right now is the open period for resident proposals or for CPAC proposals I would invite someone to a district meeting we'd we publicize it we'd explain how you apply what it looks like so we kind of try to drum it up you know and and John Page talking about the really micro grants they were small that made a difference trying to encourage people to think small you know I mean not think small but think big but yeah a bench might make a big difference or you know umbrellas down in a recreation area you know whatever it is you know I'm within the thing so if we could come up with some specific recommendations that would enlarge this that is where I would go both in a report back to the council but we might need to ask for time to do that well then my other thought is on the bigger picture that John Fenske raised on a very different level we have and I'll just be very controversial with this in terms of not in this room necessarily we have four big building projects and we did do listening sessions on them not that many people came if we did a headcount there were cards on after people had heard they went back there was a long discussion in each group and then you were said what did you think if you read the cards there was a clear priority among those four in terms of a top ranking we are unlikely to ask people to vote on a ranking or a polling but it might be a useful thing to do on a you know if you only had so much money which would you do first which would you do second you know so I think there are those bigger issues and especially if there was any thought we were going to go out for an override for any of the biggies get some reading because the timing even on an override could be disastrous people might love the project but 36% unemployment and hard time paying your current property you know rent or something so I I like the double idea you had a bigger way of saying get input on thorny issues that wasn't carve out a piece of money so I just you know I made comments on set trying to set aside or at least aspire to say at least so much money would be spent if proposals come in for resident requests or from individual CPA you know as long so that's where I heard a lot of people saying that and then this blending of ideas of micro how do we make it clear it can be really small and what it can go for I'll just make a call myself I want to draw attention to one area of different of not consensus maybe there's more than one and I may be the only one who feels this way that meaningful participation happens when people believe and and have a role in decision-making and I think that's partly why we don't have high turnout at our forums and because people aren't confident that I saw just say that that I think participating in decision making is what's been important to me I think I may be the only one who feels that way but which is what voting does and organ organizing people together to campaign for things that they want and building public support for it in a visible way seems to me important part of what participatory democracy is all about and especially with the charter of the new government it's really questionable if we can ever get people to participate with if they're making suggestions to another body that has the authority to just ignore them I'm gonna you know we'll try to work toward consensus here and I just want to say one thing Meg because on the police issue that was brought up on the budget there was a response that and we did hear from lots of people as yet there hasn't been a what's the action but we actually froze two positions in the police department potentially for spending on something else a different kind of person and it's just beginning now a conversation on what do we really want to do what are the issues and I think that's actually quite remarkable and if we can if we can make it happen you know with first listening to the groups that we're talking and for me it was evidence that hearing from 50 people and then hearing from them in at first one meeting then another meeting then another meeting there is a response to an issue that clearly started nationally and then came down here that might have us rethink the way we what we call community safety and how you foster that I don't know you know this came from outside in but how you support it so there's an effort for going out to the groups that are formed to embed it's been embedded in town goals policy goals with instructions so the managers goals so it it shows up as something that wasn't even on the horizon eight months ago so it's clear that people raising their voices can make a difference as difficult it is as it is but we don't know how many people don't want to defund the police anyway but Liz so I just to build on what Kathy was saying I think that that the police funding demonstrates that with the proper outreach to the community to solicit feedback from the community on what what the what the priorities are things the town council is influenced and can be influenced and it can make a difference and it's trying to figure out how we harness the energy out there and to get more people to engage the way that the young people were engaging in the you know police funding questions that's what we need to do it will work it just to date we haven't been able to find that kind of energy around around too many issues other than the police funding so far okay other comments so I'm hearing of a lot of people maybe I'm the only one who doesn't feel this way feel that we should focus on strengthening the programs we have by increasing the ways people can make suggestions we wouldn't change who decides but we would try to make the process these more robust for how people propose things and that the work the work for that would would be I'm not sure who would staff it but this would be something that we would figure out going forward I'll just say I was one of a large number of people who made who wrote letters to the council about the planning board process that letters that were dismissed as testimonials even though my letter was not a testimonial at all it was a letter about why we want diverse opinions on our committees so I'm just I'm a little bit cynical from that experience but who had their hand Kathy you know one thing you just quickly said even though they'd have no voice about it we don't have to set it up that way if we say we'd like to make an effort to carve out 50,000 if out of the capital budget 50 out of CPA but a bunch of ideas come in we could say and then have people vote on them you know have people ranked them you know so I'm not saying that there would be no you know if people come up with some ideas and there's only so much money we could we could definitely make that part of it I mean each of these entities has an official body you know so CPA has a decision-making body that brings their proposals but they probably if they had 10 small ideas that added up to 50,000 and didn't want to parse make their own prioritization you know so I think so that's where I said I'm not I don't have details right now but I think we could think through ways that people think they sent their idea in and other people beyond just a small group knew the idea exists and weigh in on it I mean I think we could envision a way to do that if we you know and even one thing on JCPC and one last thing on JCPC only one came in this past year but there was an effort if more had come in to make them all the same day so we could even broadcast that this is the day those proposals will be talked about and we want people to send us letters to do whatever if that you know so I but this is where I think we could build some of this not feeling I send an idea and no one listened to me right that's creative because if we can figure out some kind of mechanism for people to actually weigh in on what they want that would be they would have more power than if they just make a proposal never find out what happened John did you have your hand I mean I'm perfectly okay with the idea that we just build on the three vehicles that we have now but I don't I mean and maybe make I was trying to understand why I'm thinking about this kind of entrepreneurial thing and also the sort of larger question of participatory budgeting as a sort of democratic movement out there I think it may be that you and I ended up talking to the academics who were kind of out there in other parts of the country but are part of this thing that you know is potentially a sort of area of interest and study and activism and while I find it I totally get the idea of just trying to get more people to come to JCPC I served for three years on JCPC and it was mostly the town down employees who come but there was some and I think I think it's a very practical thing to do but I wish we could think of some hook that we could throw into a report that would say and there might be a chance here because I guess because I'm an academic and because I'm also leery of the relationship between this town and its colleges for all the good that they bring to us there's very little communication between the organizations and we get heard a lot you know I've also served on school committees that looked at enrollment declines go down Main Street it's not hard to find your stand why why I'm blanking now what's the school not our schools Park and farm what's the one that's down at the end of Main Street Fort River Fort River has lost the enormous amounts of student is because we've lost all that housing to student rentals I'm not bringing that up for now but I'm just saying I'm looking for something bigger than just saying let's spend 50,000 bucks on putting a park bench I want to engage the the colleges more on a regular basis that's why look at this is another little way there's some folks in some academic departments they're all that are interested in participatory budgeting do they want to get pulled into this somehow can we hook them in it's very hard to hook in the senior administration I used to be a senior admin guy at CUNY nobody wants to get hooked in because they don't want to get drawn in you're going to have to get the academics involved but I would love to see some little mention of how we could use this to somehow make something new and entrepreneurial whether it's grant writing or academic study or whatever it is I think we could raise the money but I obviously I'm not going to do it by myself so but for those reasons I'm gonna support what you just said John's okay I mean the college has given money to the town in all sorts of ways when do you make sure more I think we just have to do it anyway yeah other comments Liz um so but first I think John wanted John Page wanted to say something so John why don't you go first and then I'll have my comments okay perfect I think what I'm starting to hear is that we wouldn't end to how I feel certainly how I feel is we wouldn't want to write a report on the current deadline saying none of this is for Amherst so I think we all agree there so then the question is are we extending the deadline how much of an extension and is that prolonging a difficult conversation later on where we still say it doesn't really fit I just don't feel comfortable right now finishing up you know report for it for a deadline that says this is not for Amherst because it sounds like we do actually like components of it and we might be able to pull something together but not on the current timeline do you have a sense of what timeline makes sense I really don't know and my my assumption would be just to move everything a year forward so we would look at a new process I don't know I guess after January but that even seems soon but we would start looking at a new timeline to meet a new goal a new deadline which would be a year out that almost seems too soon Liz um sorry I started thinking about what John was just saying um sorry so I think one thing that I'm hearing is when we don't want to be looking at just how to get more people to come to meetings what we need to do is look at and this can incorporate some of the things we're learning from the academics what why don't people want to come to meetings what would motivate them to come to meetings how can we do something other than meetings to get more more energy and I think in terms of a timeline I think yes we do need to ask for an extension because sounds like we're changing what it is that we're we're thinking we were doing you know we were commissioned to look at whether or not a participatory budgeting process would work for Amherst and then we were to turn it over to another committee that would set it up but it sounds like we are now looking at whether it would work if it could work in a modified way and how that modified way would incorporate what we already have and so therefore yes we would need at least six maybe nine months maybe even a year honestly I don't want to I join this because I told Paul Bachman it's like it's done in January or you know it's done in December so I don't really want to kick this out another year if we can avoid that but we just had a big break so yeah well there are other comments about the substance of what we've been talking about I'm sure people have a lot more to say I'm observing that we are moving toward consensus Kathy I was just going to try to summarize do you want to say I just want to say something I don't always I sometimes express myself somewhat better in writing I'm clear because I have to get my thoughts together but I wasn't in John Page saying no we thought about it and it's not going to work I was talking about fairly optimistic report about a different way of thinking about participation that you know the when I read the Charity Charter Commission there are things called participatory budget books but but they vary and we can define our own we can create what you know we've got no one has some of the things we have already so I I meant something that would be we're coming back with this as our participatory way of doing with these details and I could see a part a is building out what we have but making it work you know where people have more of a voice there is money spent and B would be a bigger vision and what that might be I don't know what that might be you know and you could say see maybe three years down the road we come back and revisit can we carve out can we do something that looks more formally the coalition that calls them PBCs but I think we could define who we are because we are our own group we're not the Massachusetts legislature saying this is what it is and this is the only you know so I think I wasn't talking about we did our work and we said we can't do it I was saying we did our work and we're coming back with a different take on all of this but I don't think it can be written by December so I'm just hearing consensus that we maybe and maybe I'm wrong here but I'm tested test for consensus and that was really helpful what you just said Kathy that we're thinking of focusing on existing systems making them more robust with a bigger vision and I hope carving out some part of it where people could actually weigh in on what they want the suggestion Kathy made the previous time she spoke I would totally get behind that I'm just I've become quite cynical about participation where people don't have agency but I may be the only one John yeah since we're talking about existing systems and processes could we revisit maybe with Angela's help or Holly's help or anybody who knows the role and the existing role and the potential role for the community participation officers I mean presumably I think we've been just assuming without getting very specific that they would play some ongoing role in whatever we successfully set up whatever we call participatory budgeting and I'd be curious to talk a bit more again about what they do now already and what they might do in some future vision one of the I'm gonna ask the financial to respond to that one of the hard things about the way the charter had to be written as you you were had to just write sort of the spare legal terms rather than saying you know this citizen participation officer will be created and our thinking is that if you know you can't do participatory budgeting without some staff you know what you can't we couldn't add all those words but I think Paul Bachman has done an extremely creative thing of dividing the position among three people Angela do you want to also excuse me just one more clarification so there's participating we're focusing on participation in the budget I guess one simple question is what other kinds of participation are there what do what do they see as part of their mandate beyond budgets you feel like responding to that what are the various things that you and Brianna and Jennifer Jennifer just as a quick snippet I and I want to give everyone a heads up that I actually have to staff a five o'clock board of health meeting and it's 447 so just in a really quick snippet I have spent most of the day scheduling zoom interviews for people that we are pointing to the disability access advisory committee and also we just wrapped up interviews this week and next for the affordable housing trust board of trustees Jennifer and Brianna at this moment are at the Fort River mobile market with Paul Bachman doing outreach for voter registration and census and also trying to get people activated for the upcoming charge for the police oversight and community support group that is going to be focused on diversity equity and inclusion for our community I'm happy to come back to a future meeting where I can kind of flesh out for you how each of us interact with community members and how we're trying to bring more people into the fold that would be great I think we'd all I'm noticing nodding heads I think am I she didn't even mention that earlier today she set up the district one meeting the zoom meeting with analysts yeah so I'm glad we asked you now so I think we have some consensus if we can hope we can't commit but hope to build out I'm gonna off say this and then see if anybody wants to write this up I'm happy to do it or maybe someone else build on the existing two or three programs that involve citizen right we have to remember to say resident resident input with possible creative ways that residents could actually vote on some small portion and I I'm hoping that some of the other things that have come up that we haven't discussed like fundraising I hate to use the word but you know partnerships is the word I always used having done a whole ton of that I never called it you know in my career including raising three million three and a half million for Amherst cinema it's to me that's just a no-brainer but John and I may be the only ones anyway I would like to leave on addressed unless we want to take this further some of you many other things that came up so we're talking about building on existing programs and coming up and adding if we can we're not committed to it but trying to add some mechanism whereby people would do something like voting or weighing in or having being able to make decisions and that could be representative method you know whatever doesn't look we'll just does that sound like a consensus of where we are right now I think so the only other thing Jim Meg it's not just the voting on there's no commitment right now to spend any money on a resident proposal in other words they can go to the bottom of the heap so you know so you can't vote on something that isn't even on the list so you know so that's why I said conceptually we're gonna have to write up what it is we're suggesting yeah right so on right okay John just a piggyback yeah I think I think it's absolutely I think I think it's really smart to say let's just work on these three but it's got to have a creative angle on how we improve or and perhaps through academic networking over get off that horse now otherwise it's very easy for the for the process the way it's working out it just folks say that sounds great and then they basically just go back to the way it works which works fine if you're if you're you know from public works or the police department or fly away but but there has to be I really would like to advocate doing that because it's practical but making sure that there's some kind of if you pardon the expression some kind of sexy book about citizen participation and how this is a movement it's much bigger than just Amherst and put and little tiny project even if it's just theoretical just to try to get people to think that we could be part of something that's bigger and more interesting this so on the assumption that Angela is going to have to get off in nine minutes to go do her other meeting and I'm sorry to do this Kathy but I would like to nominate Kathy to write up a proposal for our next draft because you said it so well and then you said that you write even better and so I was hoping if you could take what you said and write it and I can't imagine it being better but but I know you have a lot of things to do so I apologize for nominating you but I just think you really had encapsulated and captured a lot of what we were saying and also able to bring some of the issues as a town counselor some of the things that we would need to clarify as a committee what it is that we would be proposing I'd be willing I I actually have this thing on my notes but I would expand this and bring it back with like topic sentences and bullets underneath it you know rather than trying to write you know maybe two sentences under a few so it explains it and call it very very rough draft you know so you know so I've got I just added what I call the part B part of it which is the bigger thing you know and what might that be so we could write it with that conceptually so so is our next meeting in two weeks well we're gonna talk about that next so Meg if I can just interrupt for a minute since we are recording to the cloud I can finish and shape up these minutes from the recording to the cloud is there anyone on this call who owns a zoom license who I can now make the host of this because if I make that person who owns a zoom license a host then I can hop off and it won't interrupt me just a zoom account I have a zoom host license but perfect so I'm gonna make you the host Meg and then I can hop off and it won't interrupt the meeting and I will firm up the minutes from the cloud recording which will be sent to me thank you so much for sure up in the corner you're the host Meg you just make his host a little blue light came on that's cute came on and I promise to come back at a later date and flesh out for you kind of where CPOs are and how our rules have changed during the pandemic great thank you Angela sure thank you so much and also I want to don't want to let it slip by that Kathy just agreed to help us in a huge way and to thank you taking up Liz's request to write it's actually I didn't totally grimace because it's a page and a half now so I think I could get something in you know in this bullity kind of form that I write with topic sentence some bullets underneath it so that we're not reacting to a speech I think it's it's the consensus points are you know it's not a big document there's a whole lot might be helpful also to identify the things we need to flesh out like how would people participate and so on got it I want to move to if there's no more to say about this be sure that we get into this question of an extension John and I were going to offer to oh it says my internet connection is unstable hmm John and I John Page and I were going to offer to write a memo to the council but Paul has said that he'll just do it himself and Holly's going to report to him after this meeting what length of extension we want so I hate to ask I'm going to make a proposal I'm going to just for the sake of discussion there various lengths of extension had been proposed I'm going to suggest one year December 2021 doesn't mean we have to meet all that time but it it means we even if we took four months off to wait and see what happens with this pandemic it makes it possible for us to be dealing with this at a different time and it also I don't know I just think that this isn't before some people got on we were all sharing how we're feeling I'm I I'm dreading the winter I just can't see this thing ending anytime soon so with that in mind I'm thinking a year comments or other suggestions I'd feel better with six months I don't disagree with why a year and it's in part to put some time pressure on us it's to get a report and if we had I mean there've been a few suggestions to say and a follow-up could be you know so if you a couple of you wanted to do fundraising meet with the academic community we could we could say more to come but it's not the Commission so I just think time pressure is useful but that's a personal I worked with a slave driver of a boss for years and she said in past she said impossible deadlines and then would give us a week or two reprieve but we did more than we ever thought we could because we had a deadline that was tight rather than loose but my thinking is not just how much hard we want to work but this question of how long this pandemic is going to be creating a huge question mark over everything but let's see what other people think we got six months get a year do I hear nine months I do agree with you Meg did in this really unstable time unless let's not even get into what might happen on November the fourth after the election yeah I just have to I don't want to meet I don't want to meet you know constantly for a year no but there's a lot that could happen in the next year I'll go with six months or if we set a year just to see what else is going on in the world but have a lighter meetings a significantly lighter meeting scheduled once a month say okay Liz I like the idea of six months I think actually having things be kind of up in the air will perhaps make us a little more creative because we have to think of ways that it would work in you know the before times and the now times also what we're doing we are not having to create the entire program and to set everything up all we need to do is come up with some here's some suggestions some some directions that could go in this is how it could work we're not the ones who actually have to implement it so I think six months which would be then what that June 1st or May 1st June 1st June 1st well no no it's December 1 we were supposed to be so it would be May 1 January February March April May June well anyway okay anyway no so yeah I would say six months I think that we've already laid a lot of groundwork I don't think I think a year is just gonna drag it out too much other comments to am I on oh yes so I guess a little clarification for myself because I'm still sort of unclear of what our proposal is supposed to involve I mean I still like the idea that Liz had thrown out originally of revisiting this in three to five years where maybe at that point there's less stress on staff and money and we could come up with some better ideas of actually getting to I think what we all wanted to get to was some a pot of money set aside every year for projects I don't see that as being conceivable now but I do see that as possibly being conceivable two to three three to five years from now so if we are just going to be working over the next six months and trying to put together ways to you know get more utilization out of the programs that we already have in place or are we looking to still sort of figure out how this would work phase two kind of would work a bit so I think what we agree I don't if you don't mind I think my question to you is are you suggesting that we not get an extension so the top the conversation now is on whether to get an extension how long right but that's sort of like I don't know how long it's going to take are we just working now on participation in existing programs or are we still working on what we'd like to see as a phase two or just saying that this is what we want to do now and then this is what we want to do later but somebody else is gonna figure that out later that's very helpful so I think we reached a big step in this meeting which is consensus on focusing on existing programs and hopefully but we don't know how being able to add some element of resident decision-making I think we reached that agreement in the process of these statements in our discussion I know we have to work on so I think six months is fine but if we're still working on the bigger picture in a face I would be leaning towards the one year Liz I just want to clarify when I said three to five years I meant the phase to revisit it in three to five years to see if we're ready to face to right I mean it might be for example the schools would want to have a program you know the high school $50,000 that would go a long way but that's not what we're doing we've narrowed our focus in this meeting then I think that six months would be fine that's what I thought when I said I see this consensus and then we Kathy added the element of well let's explore how there might be some way that people could participate in decision-making that we all agree now on where we're at which is a big step I don't want to over say it but I just want on the other hand be sure we all agree that's where we're at right now Kathy it's one more Liz triggered in my mind one other thing I actually would like to see movement on this so if we can get a report out in six months that says this is the way we think we can improve some of the things we do very specific and I just wrote my part C Holly that revisit in three to five years I mean that the report wouldn't say well then they're done there you know to something bigger but we could be saying we're not completely dropping that idea just not now's not the time for it and then this in between thing that is the more how do we get more democratic processes you know so we could say we don't have a lot to say about either of those but we that was part of the bigger discussion we had so that's why I you know I just would love to see a lot more proposals coming where residents felt they could propose something that they don't even know exists and that we figured out some way of energizing that and have it done sooner rather than later even if in tough times we had a I think we could get some little ideas that turn into big ideas come forward so I'm just moving along I think we're moving towards six months my suggestion that we pause a while and see what's happening we wouldn't do that because six months we'd have to just keep working right now does everybody agree is there agreement about that or somebody who would like a year so I would like to just say one thing in regards to that if we own if we went with another year CPA is starting up at six o'clock tonight proposals are going to be open for that within the next week on JCPC in the budget process is going to be starting this fall if we go to next December we're now missing two more budget cycles with this so if we were able to get this done by June 1st then it could start next year versus two years from now so that might be another good reason why we thank you want to go for that year thank you Holly so do we have agreement I mean we could vote but I don't think we need to on six months and we're not going to take a hiatus we're gonna keep going and we have a report ready by June 1st and I like specifying June 1st in case there's ambiguity on how we count December I don't want it do on May 1st so no right but I mean we just had six months of no meetings so or more than that since February 27th we haven't met so it's not really extending it it's just taking back the time that we just lost and we I chose to not be a squeaky wheel with the town manager about when were we gonna get to meet because we were clearly not a priority which I agreed with we're not you know they needed to get the council on the planning board all these other things up so I've just pulled back as did the rank choice voting commission which is also asking for an extension I don't Holly do you know how long they're asking for I am not sure on that no yeah anyway doesn't matter it's irrelevant to us but we're not adding the time we're just moving taking the time we would have worked these last seven months and putting it forward yeah okay so I'm gonna suggest that John our vice chair and I read draft for our next meeting a new timeline take our old timeline and redraft it is that or does someone else like to do that John I said okay with you yeah we can do that I'm just we're gonna have to think now what participation looks like I think we had forums on there and things of that nature so no there still could be forums they have such as if we give you'll be zooms they'll be zooms well the two of you jump in and start doing that should we wait until our next meeting to see what Kathy comes up with and then you can have a better idea of of what type of things needed to be included in the timeline I also think based on what Angela said at the very beginning of this we probably do need to do a roll call that the committee has is voting to ask for a six month extension yeah we'll do that in a second I just want to be sure we agree but so let's do one thing at a time we're thank you Liz that was helpful we're gonna have a roll call vote on asking the council although according to the our legal counsel we don't have to ask the council but we're gonna do it anyway for a six month extension to June 1st I'm gonna do a roll call John McKay John McCabe John M John F do you agree John Fenske Liz agree agree Holly agree Kathy agree John John agree and I agree okay actually we do we have somebody taking notes after Angela left Angela said she would listen to the recording notes so and and in your six months you'll say by E June 1st June 1st yeah my suggestion of John I think Kathy's not kind of come up with anything that she didn't say are you Kathy is you're summarizing where what we've agreed and what you know I'm I was gonna write the shell what Liz suggested is write a shell of a report that were some topical sentences with some ideas underneath it and I'm just looking at today's the 10th I think when you had sent things out you had the next meeting as the 24th it would be a little bit better for me and and Holly do you know whether CPAC is meeting every other week I believe we are right now because the it would be better for me not to have it on the 24th also but I so I was just gonna say it would be better to not meet again until the 1st at 3 30 for me if we can keep the 3 30 because that gives me more time and and it Thursday is October 1st of Thursday yeah I'm just looking on my calendar it is but yeah I am in when I'm in 2020 also that isn't always true when I just flash forward I have yes do we want to pencil off every other just we get him block every other Thursday at 3 30 okay and then that that will work for me you know for me yes that works and then I like Liz suggestion that after during the next meeting we have we build in the time to say then what are the next things as we talked about if we have a draft or something we don't need to go out to the public right away maybe but but we kind of think about you know what what are we going to do that John and I should not read draft the timeline for our next meeting seem to me those would be sort of two parallel things that would go hand in hand well for the 1st definitely we would say what's on the agenda for the 1st then it's is the 15th the continuation of that discussion is it something else I guess you know coming up with what the ideas are that we have to slot in somewhere um yeah so yes do a timeline but what do you all think if timeline be helpful or October 1st meeting or not I'm just trying to provisionally why not yeah well it's a draft so we certainly can bring it and we can discuss it and make changes to it that's why you do a draft because you know I don't mind I'm not arguing against a timeline I'm just remembering the old timeline which had us going out to the public with our first draft report and stopped and saying be creative when you come up with the next timeline because we're buying six months here so the point of us bringing a draft is so there's something to look at and respond to a change not so we're not looking at a blank slate because our time now is tight it's six months well it's a little more than six months but we're not gonna have a hiatus like I was imagining we're just keep going and we're just gonna hope that things turn out in November so that we're not all suicidal but anyway it's nine months we can produce a life in nine months we can turn those days are over I would like to invite public comment I'm just looking to see if you have any I don't think we do but I'm no you have no attendees on zoom nope okay well we've only had public that was because I spoke at the Amherst College citizen participation you know community engagement class whatever it was and some students showed up okay topics the chair did not reasonably identify I don't have any does anybody have any topics that we didn't identify um so we've scheduled our next steps does anybody have any comments they'd like to make or observations or it's great we're not jammed against the end of our meeting time so I just have one comment on how much I appreciate everybody's thoughtfulness you know as we went around the room so if you wrote up anything you said and you had it on yellow paper and you can even just scan it and send it to me if send it in you know because I did well I do want to wave in including what you read Meg I want to weave in things even if they're just topic sentences so it feels like it built off of a group set of comments it's and that's so that's just a request it makes it easier for me because sometimes there's the perfect thing that I can copy and paste and just you know figure out where it goes what's your what's your email I've lost all that stuff the easy one well the shit the last name is sc hon and the letter C for Kathy at Amherst mass at Amherst ma.gov that's the show it's show and see show and see except first except my family's always pronounced it Shane but I have one nephew who changed the pronunciation to Shane because he's tired of being asked how to pronounce it I mean change his spelling or what don't worry about it but anyway that's that is it beautiful in German yeah and I think since we've all spoken our comments you could actually do a reply all to Meg's emails to us because it's no longer you know it's already in the pub everything we said is in the public domain so if anyone loses anyone the easiest thing is just attach it to a reply all you know so it's I'm not just the keeper of it but if you change the subject I strongly encourage you to change the subject if you're sending another email to the list you're applying all but it's about a totally different subject I strongly encourage changing the subject just change it to follow up or whatever so it makes it makes me feel like I took notes but that I didn't take such abbreviated notes that I didn't capture it and I don't want to watch the tape yeah well I want to add thanks everybody for the thoughtful comments I thought everybody's comments were really useful and we were listening to each other I just have one final comment this is the first zoom meeting I have been on where everyone is adequately lit so thank you some of us have learned the trick about putting your laptop a little higher Liz says let's stick it up on a box so you don't look like Boris Karloff yeah it's right well I've got multiple screens that I'm looking at here so any of their comments or observations or anything okay so our next meeting is October 1st at 3 30 I'll work with either and Angela seems to be happy to do this Holly setting up the meetings I'm happy to have her do it she's much quicker and better at it than me you're not staffing this meeting you're just a full participant yeah I've done very few of them I'm not versed in it yet well the Amherst system is different when it's those two tiers from what I've set up many many zoom meetings from people all around the country and it's really different Amherst has all these tiers which is necessary well thanks everybody thank you bye bye see you on October 1st do we do we actually make a motion that we adjourn thank you I second thank you okay I move that we adjourn the meeting any second and all in favor hi roll call for this do we know no we haven't been we've all been just yeah thanks everybody but I calling in so we could hear you bye