 Yeah, was that a rumor? This is oh, yeah Yeah, he would do a standalone Quentin Tarantino pitched a Star Wars movie to JJ Abrams that is apparently going forward it will be the first R rated star ooh Star Trek movie And a track sorry track not wars track track track. Oh, yeah. Yeah, sorry track JJ he won't write the script Quentin won't write the script Quentin will not write the script What will he do just direct it allegedly just direct, but he has never directed a movie. He has not written. Yeah, it's called Reservoir for Engie the last dog So it'll be Interesting So hello, we are live and If you are a patron and you want to know what DTNS is doing about the whole patreon fee thing read patreon.com slash DTNS or Make sure you get the full audio version off of patreon today where we talked about it in depth And our reasoning for it We'll probably get to it a little bit in the post show as well In the main show today though, we want to talk about it as news not so much how it pertains to us particularly although they come up But there are options everything's gonna be okay. Yes, that's a mistake Mojam Roger you didn't turn off the YouTube chat. Oh Let me turn it. Well, I don't think you get once the I don't think you can turn it off midstream after you've gone live That's all right I just want to put my head in there Tell me about it. I want to start. I just want to go hibernate All right, Raj. How is the air quality? You are closer to all the stuff than we are No, ironically enough, it's blowing away from the city. So I actually don't smell it at the same At the same Level that I did the fires in the summer, which were right in the hill behind me. Well But I'm sneezing a lot more Me too. So I don't smell it, but I it's tickling the nose hairs, I guess Yeah Yeah, that's right doing a lot of nose blowing That's the other thing. I cannot stop blowing my nose and I thought I was getting the cold because I was also getting a sore throat But it just hasn't gone anywhere. It's just a lot of coughing and sneezing but All right, it must be the air because I'm the same way just sneezing and running and I don't feel sick It's just, you know, yeah, exactly All right, you guys ready ready this is gonna be a good time and I'm mostly mean that Here we go three two the daily tech news show is brought to you by people like me not outside organizations To learn more go to daily tech news show dot com slash support This is the daily tech news for thursday december 7th 2017 pearl harbour day, which we still remember from dts headquarters in los angeles. I'm tom merit and from studio feline I am sarah lane moklin california. I'm justin robert young and On the edge of the fire country, but thankfully away from it roger chang Hello, it's Close but not close. We had to come pretty close up here on uh in the overpass Near us yesterday, but that seems to be a little more under control to hit bell air Burned four houses crazy crazy stuff going on here We are going to talk about patreons fee processing changes our main topic today If you are a patron and want to know what dts is doing about it go to patreon.com slash dts look at my post or You can listen to the full audio. We're in the pre-show. We talked about it on the show today Though we're going to talk about what it means for internet and tech in general, but let's start with a few tech things you should know Bitcoin broke through the 15,000 barrier For us dollars today, uh, which is funny because it hit 13,000 yesterday and everybody freaked out Then too at the time of our recording. I just Updated google it is now worth 16,778 dollars and 49 cents wow So if I could have a bitcoin, I could just cover everybody's fees. Yeah, wow Uh, google has shut down the chrome web browser app store for mac linux and windows not for chromo s still there for chromo s google announced in august 2016 the app store would close it says about 1 Of users actively use chrome apps in the browser. Uh, it doesn't affect chrome extensions either Uh, sony announced that it has sold 70 million playstation 4 units worldwide Sony did not break out separate numbers for ps4 pro But it did say that it sold 2 million playstation vr units Hmm Back to some google news the company launched a new search feature to let Celebrities answer commonly searched questions about themselves in the form of selfie videos that show up at the top of mobile search results so Videos live directly in search. So they'll show up on the mobile web and through google owned apps So if you want to know, you know nick Jonas net worth, maybe he'll answer you I'm worth 1,500, you know, they have to dub in his current network Uh, now here are some more top stories. Jerry. Take kick us off Well, valve announced that it is ending support for bitcoin in steam because of the quote high fees and volatility Hey, maybe it's a theme for today Valve says that fees for processing transactions have risen from 20 cents when it launched about 20 dollars per transaction Bitcoin's value has been generally trending up. That's a modest statement But with extreme drops and jumps valve says that sometimes the value of bitcoin changes significantly Even during the time of a single transaction. Yeah, this is jumps. What three thousand dollars Right. I mean you had to like look at it at show time And it's still going to be out of date by the time people most people listen to the show Oh, totally. Yeah. I mean five minutes before the show was under 16. Yeah And and that's really crazy. Uh, I don't think valve is dropping bitcoin Some people are like, ah, see bitcoin's no good. I don't think that's what this means Bitcoin could yet reach stability. It's not at stability. It hasn't been stability for a long time But a lot of people just thought it would crash and go away. Maybe it's in a bubble and it's going to crash Again, that's certainly possible But it's also possible that at some point it finally just evens out and we go, this is what a bitcoin is worth We finally reached the level that's saying whatever that level is valve saying, you know what until we get to that level I'm out because I can't start a transaction Charging people like 0.03 bitcoins for a game and then by the end of the game 0.03 is like charging them double and it just just doesn't make sense. Well and and and also it's a matter of Customer service, right? If people are upset that things are worth more or less than what they initially wanted to pay for it Had a certain point it becomes a hassle I you know, listen bitcoin is one of the like late a charge charging stories for story of the year in my opinion and it is A large I don't think it's going away because right now out here in the bay area It is what you would hear stereotypically in like 80s movies about rich guys talking about stocks People I know are just like where the bitcoin is it's it's insane and it's only getting more popular because of all this press Yeah And and this is not good for bitcoin that it is too volatile for valve to use No, uh, you want stores to be able to use it as a medium of exchange and actually a year ago It was more useful that way. That's why valve implemented in the first place like it rises, but it you know It's stable. It's been skyrocketing so much this year You kind of have to wait for it to burst again before you want to implement it and if somebody's done it once What's that? Let the hysteria die down. Yeah. Yeah But then when the hysteria dies down is valve going to be like, okay, let's do it again They may be less likely to and that's a problem Instagram released a standalone messaging app technically just a test Called direct in Chile is real italy portugal turkey and iraway the instagram inbox This is actually kind of interesting will be replaced for those who install direct So if you install the new app your instagram experience will change You'll do all your private messaging within direct The app opens to the camera the idea is to have all of your private sharing in one app leaving the public stuff to instagram Direct also has four exclusive filters. So, you know, there's a little bit of Instagram like behavior kind of weird though It's interesting. I mean, it's kind of what they did with facebook messenger, right? They took it out of facebook app And made it separate but the implementation is pretty interesting. You swipe right To get to your profile Then if you swipe right again It will show you instagram and allow you to jump right over to instagram and vice versa in instagram You could I think swipe left And then it'll show you a little thing for direct and then you can jump over to direct to kind of give you a Virtual feeling of still being in the same app I mean clearly the company, you know, they've done enough testing to be like There's so much stuff being shared that, you know, we could we could You know make the most of this and and create a standalone app The problem is making sure it's seamless between the two because you don't want people to stop using instagram publicly Just because they're, you know chatting privately with a lot of friends on some other app I mean, obviously this is coming from them seeing activity doing it. It does seem like two different products Uh, uh, you know the instagram chat and messaging features don't really feel like except for the fact that you almost Uh, exclusively use them in my case to share instagram stuff with other people Uh, but you know, it makes sense. Uh, you know, uh, I don't know I mean, listen, everybody should have a messaging app that's standalone. Yeah. Yeah, it's cool Especially if it opens right to a camera. That's new Uh, all right. I'm gonna go through the snapdragon 8 45 specs qualcomm announced it. It's coming in 2018 You guys can just gasp or cheer or groan as I give the specs depending on your feelings 845 is manufactured by samsung on its 10 nanometer process. That's the same as the 8 35 was But there's a boost to the performance core clock of about 19 percent and because of a cpu redesign qualcomm thinks You should see a 25 performance uplift is what they're saying 845 also gets a two megabyte l3 cash three megabytes of system cash The gpu is an adrino 6 30 with 30 faster graphics and built-in support for a bunch of vr and ar stuff eye tracking hand tracking Foveated rendering which renders the part you're looking at So that it doesn't have to work and render all this stuff that you can't see Multi-view rendering six degree of freedom all this stuff Uh positioning it as being the chip if you want to do handheld ar and vr Which means not just phones maybe standalone headsets the image signal processor can capture 4k 60 frame per second video in hdr 10 bit color depth with built-in depth sensing something the 36 the 8 35 could do but not out of the box The x20 lte modem, uh, we mentioned before handles the theoretical max of 1.2 gigabits per second Gigabits per second theoretical and wi-fi supports 60 gigahertz 802 11 ad That's that short range wi-fi that acts as a cable replacement. Uh, it's not the wi-fi you'd necessarily use for your house Finally the hexagon 8 85 dsp works as an ai and imaging co-processor and should be three times faster than the hexagon That was in the 8 35 Need I say more Sounds pretty good to me tom Those that's I mean, it's a it's a beefy little chip. It's not it's not a vast difference from the 8 35 But looks like it's more capable Wired reports that wikipedia co-founder larry sanger has become the chief information officer for ever a pedia A site that wants to do wikipedia like services on the blockchain. Oh good grief Instead of a massive IQ points for edits and article creation Editors would earn a stake in the company editors Must put their own token to submit or edit an article which will be refunded if the submission is accepted It also means ever a pedia has no centralized server costs So maybe personal appeals out the window wired points out that a company like Lanour is also pursuing a blockchain based Encyclopedia, sara. It sounds like this is just a little bit too silicon valley buzzword generator for you Well, I mean my first reaction was like wikipedia on the blockchain. What does that even mean? but I do like the idea of you know, because the wikipedia model and there are others like it, you know, is based on uh community support um and uh, you know truthfulness and and all of that stuff so If you can get like a bigger prize than just like a star Yeah, I get it No, this is this is this is using an ico type approach To reward editors which one of the big problems of wikipedia sometimes is keeping editors around And if they have an actual stake in the company, I don't know how the company's going to make money But assuming they can figure that out having a stake in the company would be a big Uh incentive for people to do this and I like the idea that you have to put up a token to submit Because that's going to stop people from like well, I'm just going to spam a bunch of fake stuff and build up tokens and get rich Uh, because if your submission is not accepted then you lose the token So that should delay that and the fact that it's on the blockchain I think could be huge whether it's ever a pedia or somebody else in Getting rid of centralized systems again one of the big issues with net neutrality With bandwidth caps with all kinds of things is a centralized system If you don't have a centralized system anymore And there's a blockchain pair that up with mesh networks And suddenly nobody's in control of everything and this is how the internet routes around maybe it takes longer this time But we could get to a point where google facebook They don't control the data anymore because the data isn't controlled by anybody Yeah, I'm really excited that now we can have a new class of wikipedia editors that have more to fight over Oh fine It's probably true Uh, a bit of an unlikely pair at least to me sonos and ikea announced a partnership to create products that deliver what they call Future home sound experiences. We don't really have many details beyond that. That's all the both the company said But ikea does already uh sell some smart home products wireless charging solutions for mobile phones smart lighting I mean sonos is is it is a it's a high end brand Ikea is known as a great brand, but you know affordable. You don't need an allen wrench to put together a sonos No, right, but I wonder, you know, is this sonos doing some exclusive ikea you know less expensive speaker Is it Ikea just saying like hey sonos one speaker is now fit in our media center Yeah, it's gotta be a bargain sonos, right? Otherwise, it just doesn't work with ikea But I bet there's some upselling too where sonos can show off their best stuff I mean Ikea is the perfect place, right? You've got all these miniature homes inside of an ikea store What better place to show what a sonos can do than in an actual like fake house that you can walk around in As if the the death march that is an ikea store could get more Irritating would be everybody trying to fiddle with a sonos and all of those little tin can fake apartments Here's my idea What is sonos best at filling your home with sound? What is the biggest problem with sonos? I got to buy multiple sonos speakers to fill my home with sound What if there was maybe not the best sonos speaker but sonos speakers built into some of the furniture And so now that's not the hub, but if you already have a sonos This is another way that you can continue to get bigger richer sound in your home when you're playing Big and rich the country duo I also just wonder what ikea, you know what their grand plans might be ikea When I was in college was like you want the cheapest, uh, you know side table. That's where you get it now people have like custom kitchens made with ikea marble and they're like really beautiful and You know maybe the company wants to Have a higher end part of their store. Yeah Uh, it could it could be a change especially with them getting more into the smart home space It could be a change in that approach Trying to fight that a little bit that would be interesting to watch as well All right, folks if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines at daily tech headlines dot com It's all part of your support of dts. It makes us able to do this It's actually the bedrock of what we do and it keeps you up to date every day in less than five minutes Go get it as a podcast on the amazon echo Just launched in canada canadians go up to your amazon echo and tell it to add daily tech headlines as a flash briefing It should be able to do it google home has it as well and the anchor app at daily tech headlines dot com All right, so patreon announced uh to creators a couple days ago But but to all of the patrons uh today by email that they're changing their fee structure There's a lot of confusion about this. So we just want to set out what actually is changing right now First of all, we always paid a certain percentage in fact looking over the past three months Patreon always takes five percent out of whatever a creator like daily tech news show makes that's not changing five percent still coming out But up until now Last month they took out six percent for processing fees a couple months ago They took out six point six four percent seems to hover for us around six percent For other creators it can go up to seven and apparently even 14 percent because of how different Different operators work. We don't pay per post We we charge per month and so that changes how this all works out. Anyway Patreon said look if somebody's getting 14 percent taken out one month seven percent the next that's a lot of volatility Let's standardize that let's make it so that patrons patron creators always know they're getting 95 of what was pledged And the way to do that is to take those processing fees Which vary some of them come from paypal some come from stripes some of them come from credit card companies Push those out on the patrons and say this is kind of like a sales tax So if you pledge five dollars, you're now going to pay five dollars Plus the credit card processing fee or the paypal processing fee that way the creator gets 95 of that five dollars gets four 75 To do that though I'm guessing now patreon has not been clear on this and this is one of the questions They decided they needed to standardize it They couldn't have it be 14 percent for one patron and seven percent for another depending on how they paid and what the situations were So my guess is they did some math on the entire patreon universe And said on average each pleasure Would be covered if we charge them 35 cents per pledge Plus 2.9 of the pledge So it's a base of 35 cents for each pleasure Plus an extra percentage based on how big their pledge is That means if you pledge a dollar per creation, you're now spending a dollar 38 per creation But if you're spending 20 dollars, uh, you're you're only spending 21 something. Uh, so The percentage goes down the more you give The idea was the creators get to keep more Uh, the the the processing fees are transparent and pushed out to the patrons and patreon itself doesn't change They still just take their five percent Uh, and this has caused not A small amount of unrest among both creators and patrons So a little historical context to patreon patreon is a company that uh, I think it's not uh, you know A tale we can't tell is is uh, one that tom and i have been Uh involved with from a fairly early age. Uh with with them, uh, uh, obviously d tns was not only uh, Tremendously reliant on the support that was gained through the patreon platform, but patreon itself Uh has been very happy to see more and more podcasts come in to the platform after that point Uh, they have said consistently To publicly and privately that they are always trying to work on that credit card fee The hope was the more and more transactions they could get The more they could negotiate that feed down with all these different places This is them in my mind saying guess what creators? We've solved this forever We you are now not going to have to worry about credit card processing Uh you all you have to do is look at that number and we can probably even have something on your dashboard that automatically takes out 5% It's no longer estimated payout. Now. It's deaf definite payout You know what you are going to get the problem here is twofold in my mind number one Communication on this has not been great And I believe that they did not realize how much of How much turbulence this was going to cause and I think there are big hanging questions here specifically In the idea that this 35 cent charge is per creation So for dts which is a monthly show. That's just once For my patreon. I mean I make my living primarily on two patreon accounts night attack And jury which encompasses both the jury podcast and the politics politics politics podcast Each one of those is a once a week charge That means that despite the fact that we are both doing things that is a slated amount of content for the month Anybody who is on a per post? Patreon will be charged more In those 35 cent fees, right? And 2.9 plus 35 cents sounds very familiar to anybody who's looked at stripe Who's looked at paypal for processing? It's usually around 2.9 percent plus 30 cents My guess is the extra five cents is covering some other fees that That just are part of the chain of processing Uh, you know banking fees or whatever But here's my question that has not been answered and I've put this to patreon. I'm still waiting for them to answer it Uh Why 35 cents per pledge? That 2.9 plus 35 cents for a transaction is almost standard I'm curious what the extra five cents is but 2.9 plus 30 cents. That's what I pay if I do stripe That's what I pay if I do paypal that makes perfect sense to me. It's very transparent But why is it per pledge? Why isn't it because I I get I back people on patreon. I get charged Once for for all of it. Why why is it that I'm not getting charged 35 cents? Once for just that one pledge. I think that's a question a lot of people have to And I don't have the answer for that But but if you're gonna if you're gonna get your nose bent out of shape get it bent out of shape for the right reason I don't think they're double dipping. I don't think that they're trying to secretly make more money It really does feel like an attempt to standardize a fee by averaging it across people And some people probably are gonna pay less in processing fees Although nobody ever paid processing fees but but the processing fee per person for somebody who just does two monthly's might actually end up being less Whereas the person who does lots of pledges on a weekly basis is definitely going to pay more You know, I think the the other thing that you have to look at this and this is Big scale right pull back a little bit The entire history that we have known in and you know the the internet when it came to crowdfunding Was always Everybody kicks in a little and at the end of the day it means a lot this to me feels like Them patreon and crowdfunding in general by the way Coming of age a little bit and understanding that this is not about pay what you want. This is not about tip jar This is not about everybody kick in a dollar and at the end of the day We have 500 dollars. This is about people who are now sans cable company Sands a lot of other traditional media Of you know newspaper subscriptions, although those are kind of on the rise but just in general Saying all right. I'm willing to kick in Netflix level subscription service level money For the programs and personalities that I like I am making this a part of my budget And it's rad that I am giving $30 a month $15 a month $10 a month It's not about the dollar anymore And so they are adjusting their rules in accordance with that which is why people that are giving a dollar for a lot of stuff The budget Contributors which I do think are important to this ecosystem are the ones kind of being given the cold shoulder in general That to me Is more about where we are in crowdfunding as a whole than necessarily patreon trying to be Mean like this is just where things are going as the money has gotten bigger and more consistent You know as as the new kid on the block Of the patreon model you guys have been doing it a lot longer than I have You know just just a couple months now and some change that I've been on d10s, but It's because of the money that was raised on patreon that I am here So I absolutely believed in the structure and the community and it all worked so well So the fact that uh things are changing um You know my first reaction is don't panic. Let's you know rate it out a little bit. Um at the same time. I will say Um while patrons have a very legitimate Concern The whole idea behind this is to help creators But I see a lot of creators saying my patrons are going to leave. Yeah So new creators possibly this is more attractive for existing creators Who you know, they were fueling the whole model as it is It's very problematic Yeah, and it violates the rule of don't take things away from the internet Uh without without peril right when you change things when you take things away Uh people get upset and so you have to have a really really good reason And cover all your bases and dot your eyes and cross your t's And there's a couple eyes that aren't dotted here There's a couple t's that aren't crossed and people are focusing on those And picking on those because they don't like change and not only do they not like change They don't like change that costs them change. Uh, you know, that makes things more expensive That's an insult added to the injury there. So I I Not surprised to see the backlash for a lot of people it doesn't matter I get it if you're a ten dollar a month patreon and you're doing well Adding 2.9 plus 35 cents to your monthly pledge It's not a big deal for other people though who are scraping by But wanting to give a dollar to this person and this person and this person this person It's it's it's catastrophic to that ability to do it because it really limits your choices You're going to have to back out on people and that never feels good. I get that Uh, nor does it feel good for the creators As much as people don't like things getting taken away from them I do like paying rent and I have uh, either wisely or unwisely made my A living on this platform So, uh, I am very invested in it and I implore Patreon to please just answer these questions about per post Creators because I think that that is something that that is Is very important to my life and I know where their offices are So and there and there may be a do it in a blog post There may be a rational explanation that we haven't thought of where it's like, oh, I guess you do have to do 35 cents I get that maybe it's trade secrety. You maybe it's the nda like Uh, but but you got to address it somehow because it it is the the sore thumb that sticks out Hey, thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit You can submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show dot reddit dot com In fact, the fact that this story was high on the subreddit day Was one of the things that helped convince me. I was it wasn't just my bubble There's other people who were convinced about it. Uh, and it was also posted in our facebook group facebook.com slash groups Slash daily tech news show. Let's check out the mail bag, sarah All right, this one comes from john. He says it's cold in billions montana john stay warm John says I want to share my experience getting into ethereum mining this year started with a single gpu Now i'm up to eight It's a fun hobby trying to optimize performance and energy use But if I could go back in time probably would have just invested that money in crypto instead It's all kind of finicky. It's about 120 a month in energy costs generates a lot of heat and noise In the back of my head. I'm always thinking about a fire risk Right, you got a lot of stuff going on here You have to be very careful about how you power these things also of note Ether is planning to move from proof of work where you mine blocks to proof of stake Where instead of mining you stake your ether that you won't try to cheat the network the changes For uh, this changes it from solving hard math to distributed verification where you have something to lose Hmm, uh, that's that's interesting. Jai. That's a good way of explaining proof of stake Where it's it's it's saying okay, we're gonna let you prove this But if if someone checks your work and finds out that you uh, you cheated you lose money Which which makes things a little a little more efficient And then uh patron supporter and long time listener wrote in and said hey Uh crash plan it ended unless you converted to business and you talked about that a while ago What'd you end up doing tom? Uh, I'll be honest what I ended up doing for a while Was just kind of relied on Dropbox to to sort of paste me over but I eventually because of this email Uh got my act together and I'm happily on back blaze now That that worked great. It was super simple to download And index and it just automatically takes everything off your hard drive There's some quirks about how it works and how you access things which Some people may or may not want to do But it's all part of what I considered to be now a four-part backup system I've got a local nas that I back up to I've got the devices themselves I've got Dropbox and I've got back blaze which images My laptops hard drive so you can check that out if you want at backblaze.com Thank you to Justin robert young not only a patreon creator And friend to all but he's busy doing other things too. Tell the folks out there what you got going on Oh, well, thank you, uh sarah if you are a a fan of uh, either the frog pants or diamond club community And you know somebody maybe a nice little present a little christmas gift Uh for them would be to go to stickers or diaf.com. That is where you can get our new mega pack We're taking all the old stickers that have rotated out of our packs out of the vault That includes artwork from spearmint nitrate carter johnson scott johnson And more as well as a brand new pinset. I think i'm wearing my my please don't die pin Right here all over there at stickers or diaf.com order now Supplies are running low and you want to get it in time for christmas stickers or diaf.com Hey, uh, big thanks to everybody who is still supporting us on patreon We super appreciate you even more right now There are all kinds of perks there. Uh, so so take a moment. Take a deep breath decide Okay, even if it cost me a little bit more is it still worth it to be in this system? We think it is to still be part of this system because it makes things easier I don't have to run the whole thing myself and maintain it and keep the servers up And that does make it worthwhile to me So if that's still your way of supporting us, we appreciate it patreon.com slash dtns Don't forget. There's other ways though. Uh, we just launched, uh a way to support us on memberful We've always taken paypal and you can find all those ways to support us at daily tech news show dot com slash support Keep the feedback coming by the way, uh, really appreciate, uh, everybody who has weighed in about this and other things feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 21 30 utc at alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv And as tom said our mothership daily tech news show dot com back tomorrow with shannon morse and lenn peralta will be here to illustrate talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com Time and club hopes you have enjoyed this bro I had stopped yet. Oh, sorry. That's great. No, that's gonna be all the recording now. That's great So a little muppet at the end of the show. There's an extra muppet all right uh, so yeah that's uh That's what's going on if if you are a patron and you miss the beginning of this on the full audio Version, we've got some new reward levels that'll cover. We'll compensate. We should say compensate For the increased fee if you really just can't swing it. This is a way to keep whatever reward level you're at Uh, and so check that out at patreon.com slash d tns But uh, that doesn't work at the dollar level because they won't let us go below a dollar. So We've got member fire paypal for those folks. You can still back us is what i'm saying We're trying to make it easy What should we call this show? Ooh good question. We're trying real hard to be the shepherd the large patreon collider Fiasco Fiasco buddy, uh the charge patreon provider Uh, put your best fee forward Still no snow allen wrench required You know that might be a little too early to say Yeah, I I I like I don't where it is on the list but uh sun bun in the chat had patreon off Which I would like to amend With his next line which was hashtag got him You have to say goddamn Ikea plus sonos equals musical chairs um I mean the large patreon collider. It's pretty funny pretty good Herapedia therapedia bitcoin too volatile for valve Snapdragon 845 cheer moan or met your excitement Wiki coin edit your own currency a page patreon problem Patreon podcasters just want to get paid fairly potluckian G's morphe's Sounds like you're calling someone morphe g's morphe's You morphe's And that's morphe's are the drugs that I take because i'm elliot and alderson Uh, I go with the large patreon collider. Yeah I like that one anybody else Yeah, I think that that's that's fine fiasco is pretty funny as a pun was kind of amazing A large I like large patreon collider because it's not as uh charged Yeah, yeah except it is because it's a collider There's like maybe the collision will you know be good. Yeah, maybe we'll detect the The god particle Hey, by the way tom for your uh continuing pop culture education. Yes, we forgot to do that today. Yeah, uh Uh lil b Is now uh now wants to go to college. So he is soliciting colleges Okay to to find out which colleges want to have lil b And now uh college The official college accounts are now coming out of the woodwork to woo Lil b You know how to take lil b in who Berkeley's ha school of business Who's I'm totally Foolish who's who's lil b? Oh, roger. Where do we start? Oh my god? He's a he's a national treasurer. Yeah protect lil b Always always protect lil b should we google it for you? Lil b is a rapper from uh the oakland berkeley area. Um, but he's Perhaps more well known for putting curses on sports figures. Yeah, uh Uh, uh, he also invented the the the eat-em-up dance the cooking dance So you uh, you and a lot of football players did that in the end zone Yeah, so you do like that or like like that. So you're like eating them up Uh, and and he does not take kindly if you use it and then don't credit him Ah, right He also cursed kevin durant for years and it worked Like he wrote a song called f word kevin durant, which is one of my favorite songs of all time. It's so good It's it's pretty wonderful song I listen to it regularly even though kevin durant is now on my team now on the warriors Yeah, I wanted him to do a new version like i'm friends with kevin durant or something Well, he did lift the curse, you know, and so that was he lifted the right Ah That answered your question. You're up to speed. Yeah, I do. I am. Thank you. That was most uh, enlightening Did I do this right? Hold on Uh, when are we doing our coho shoot? Our Three at three. Okay. Yeah, I just have I have to run like a really quick errand, but I should have time between the two Should be on the calendar if they want a quick errand Uh Man today today was rough Today was a weird day Here's the thing for me personally I don't like dealing with this stuff the whole reason I use patreon the whole reason I like This kind of model is that it lets me just do my show Yeah, I don't have to go and maintain things and track ads and Do all that stuff, right? I just have to talk to people about the stuff that I talk about and then it's like hey, I'm supporting the patrons patrons support me It's all good. Yeah, so when this happens outside of my control and I spend the whole morning Talking to people about it asking people what they think finding out explaining things You know correcting the same misapprehension 15 times agreeing that this weird absence of information is frustrating 15 times I'm not doing my show And that's not okay Uh, literally I'm going to put words in Tom's mouth and he can correct, uh, correct the statement as much as he wants Uh Patreon almost made Tom, uh, uh called cnet Here's an actual conversation. I already I already mentioned this in the slack this morning Uh, I told Eileen as I explained all this stuff to her I was like, yeah, I don't have to deal with this and the people, you know I'm losing we're losing patrons and just it's it's just it's not me I'm not able to do what I want and Eileen says well, you know rod tomatoes still looking for an editor-in-chief See you Well, isn't that nice for you tom? Yeah. Yeah There's like great timing. No, it's awesome. That's great. That's great. Um, I'm really excited I don't think that's going to be a less stressful gig Is the no you hate it immediately. No, exactly. Yeah, are you kidding? That was just funny Uh, but no, listen it this sucks This has sucked from the second I woke up. Yeah, I'm not kidding every element of my day like every Break out my day into half hours I have had a conversation With somebody in some form or fashion About this patreon thing including patreon, right? It's not patreon didn't want it to suck I I don't I'm not throwing stones at them about this They they honestly thought this would go down a little better. I'm pretty sure Oh, I mean, yeah, I mean the feedback if there's a lot of good feedback. I'm not seeing it I'm seeing a lot of bad feedback. Yeah, and um I I had an email again, like I'm coming into this kind of new, but you know the patreon model I mean, I knew what the company was, but I didn't really look at it with the, you know, you know With a fine-tooth comb until I joined uh DTNS at the beginning of October So if this had always been the case from day one, I mean, okay, whatever whatever works That's just the way the world works. Yeah four years and then all of a sudden, you know, your community is like We don't like this. That's a Huge problem, you know, let's not lose sight of the fact that it's not happening right this second You're not being charged at the moment. Like no, they did give you notice. They said as of December 18th You've got time to take action So I want to give them that credit because it's starting to feel a little bit like oh They just sprung it on us like no they at some point They had to tell you at a time when they hadn't told you before and that's today. That's what today. Yeah uh I had a quick email with somebody at patreon And I did I did it as a creator not a reporter. So I don't want to say exactly what they said It would be safe to categorize it as They understood there would be rumbling. Yeah, I don't Think that they realized what they had what kind of Amplitude I I believe that they have a spreadsheet that says uh Look, this all works out. Don't worry. We've seen into the future We've run test models and and you make more money and and your patrons ultimately really don't care I'm sure they sat down with people and said how many of you would quit How many of you would lower your pledge? How many of you would just leave it as it is? I think didn't they say that they ran it for a little bit? They ran like little test models Oh, did they I didn't hear that I I may have just been inventing that in my head But yeah, I know I I think I think they did their due diligence You know, it's as far as it can be done Uh, it's Just when you roll it out like this Then you find out the real the real reaction to it in the in the wild which can be different well It wouldn't be the first time a company made a change and the community was like wow and then the company was like, whoa Sorry, I don't get the sense that that they're planning to do that. But well, I'm not saying that they're gonna like change course but I think you know Tom you said earlier today like I'm not surprised by this and I was like I'm kind of surprised actually I'm not surprised by the backlash. Uh, I you know, I don't whenever you take something away and raise a cost You're gonna get you're gonna get angry people. Yeah Yeah I am surprised that we're down 49 patrons Because that hurts us wasn't it 15 yesterday? Yeah So after yes after people found out about the creators We went down 15 then today the email went out as soon as the email went out. Boom. We went down 49 That's 1% Yeah, that's and I'm not seeing new paypal subscriptions to match that And the paypal donation seemed to be about normal one person who backed us on paypal Wrote I'm doing this because so I know there was at least one who canceled over here and added over there, but Uh, there's not a there's not any others I would say maybe give it a couple of days because not everyone would yeah Close one and automatically jump like they would like oh, I I I'll close it in the morning and I want to get back from work or You know or the weekend I'm Uh today is just a whole suckball So who knows what's going on From yesterday in my exit surveys. I have one two three four five six seven eight nine 10 Uh 10 canceled pledges All but one of them site patreon fee increase uh, although they are all But two either a dollar or under Two of them are three dollar per creation People though and those are my lifeblood Um, and they site Patreon new fee increases um Yeah, I've got we're down 54 now Uh, there's been a couple of people raised their pledge trying to I think in some cases trying to pick up Uh, the fact that other people are are declining, which is cool. I appreciate that And I think I said I think like one person went from seven to nine dollars Uh, which is definitely taking advantage of the fact that you can get the fee compensation reward tier And get the get the co-executive producer title, which is that's why we do it. That's cool One person went from one to ten dollars. That's great. Thank you Yeah um And in average my processing fee has always been around 3.67 percent percent really On the jury the processing fee column was three 3.67 that's a bargain. It actually has gone been going down It was hovering around four So my take home has been 91 lat around 91 percent. Yeah, my take home has been consistently 88 Throughout the history so I would be getting four percent more in this system Yeah Um Yeah, I will go from 88 percent to well, it's been 89 percent last month to 95 percent But now we'll have a reduced amount And that's probably another thing the patreon doesn't want to say out loud But they're thinking like look creators even if you lose a bunch of people you're gonna make more money So you're my if your money goes up. What do you care? Um, what that happens that could be true Yeah, just wait for that to happen Don't kick me in the shins and telling me you're doing uh nick with a c keeps hearing a windows usb sound I think that's you roger. No, that's it. Oh, is that you right? Justin? That's me. I thought it was coming through roger's little sound No, uh, uh, sorry guys. It's a thing that i'm trying to work. There it is. There it is And it'll be back Wait a minute. Why why did you immediately assume is rod? Well, because you've got the sound capture card and sometimes your system sounds will Yeah, but i muted it I muted it. I know but sometimes it that that that sound thing gives you trouble sometime. That's why I thought it was you Or roger. I wasn't trying to pick on roger. I'm sorry It's okay. I'll be I'll be your punching bag for tonight. No, that's not that's not what I was going on at all The same thing that allows me to hear amazing radio jingles radio jingles Let's just go show Well hell I wish I could say I was going to take a nap What'd you say sarah? Oh, it's just that we rate dogs, you know, they have those little hats to say ah heck and then they like asterisk The e is the funniest thing in the world That's funny Well, maybe that's Maybe that's how you steer Dtns into like a peril manufacturing with snap equips Well, we're gonna do the listener co-host show that'll be coming in the holidays here in a short while Wonderful timing. I'm also going to talk to a uh, uh, someone's daughter about the future of media for her school project That's my afternoon Don't call me yesterday. It would have been like well the future of media is great There's so many opportunities today. It'll be like stay away. Name old nothing to pain No, I'm I'm kidding, of course. All right, uh, uh, I love you guys. Uh, anyway, I'll uh guys in the radio act to fall out Bye everybody