 Welcome to the drum history podcast. I am your host Bart van der Zee and today I am joined by educator and performer Bruce Becker Bruce. Welcome to the show. Thank you Bart. Thanks for having me good to be here Absolutely. Yeah, I'm first off. You're kind of a legend in your own right, but we're talking about Today particularly we're talking about The great Freddy Gruber who you took lessons with for I think you said about seven and a half eight ish years boy Freddy is Legend I got you know became aware of him I think in my you know when I was younger because of you hear about Neil Peart Taking lessons with someone and it blew everyone's mind But there's a lot more to Freddy than that. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, but yeah, so Why don't we obviously let's talk about your lessons with him a little bit But why don't we start and well and of course I think at some point we're gonna hear about your amazing career as well But why don't we talk a little bit about Freddy as a person because I don't know much about him. I think it's a little bit Elusive in a way of what's actually going on and so yeah, who is Freddy Gruber? That's a great question. Who was and who is Freddy Gruber? You know a Freddy being born in New York and being around that period of time where jazz was the thing and That ever-present art as well as the growing nature of all that music Freddie was around that and he was around a lot of those great guys, you know I have that classic photo of Freddy and buddy. That was I think back in 1946 So Freddy would have been about 19 and they're sitting on the back of a wooden chair buddy with sticks Freddie kind of hanging with his arms down and cross-legged looking a little cocky as Freddy was he was a very Let's say a very different kind of a guy as people who knew him would attest to his Line that buddy rich gave him was you're none of a kind, you know, not a one of a kind but you none of a kind And so I think his youth spent in New York Brought him a great deal of exposure to all that music and he was addicted. He wanted to play the drums I know that one story was that his father was not on board with that and He had basically left home, I think at 16 and Bumped into a pianist by the name of Joe Springer and as I recall the story as was laid out to me from Freddy Joe Springer was a pianist who had played with a young Billy Holiday and I guess he saw Freddy on a Benches the story and again, it's hard to say, you know, Freddy had an imaginative storytelling mode but he said that Joe saw him on the Park bench somewhere and said hey kid because he had drumsticks. Can you play those things? He said, yeah, it's it. All right so he kind of took him under his wing I guess for a little period of time and Again, according to Freddy, he would get a chance to sit in with Billy Holiday at the end of the night and play some brushes on the bandstand with Joe and So that's you know, that's an early story and if I guess Freddy would have been about 16 or so There's other stories where there was some I can't remember the name of the magazine But it was like a jazz rag and the article was the shape of jazz or the shape of drums to come And that was an article about Freddy and they were talking about oh keep an eye on Freddy Now let's segue to another story about that period of time from Jimmy Chapin who? Told me numerous times about how he saw Freddy play when he was a kid And it's it's sort of a duality of story. He said I never saw anybody play like that It was very polyrhythmic Freddy was ahead of his time so that being said The other side of what Jimmy would say and and again, this is Jimmy telling me so I just want to put this out There's Jimmy would tell me Freddy couldn't play four quarter notes in a row So it's hard to say as to what Freddy's background was in terms of those earlier days and and how he was able to kind of get into the music scene if he was such a Progressive player so to speak, you know think about the times if you're in the mid 40s or whatever and late 40s Everything was just swinging and popping and jumping So I would imagine that he had some of those sensibilities, but again, there's no documentation of exactly what he did in terms of recordings and You know was all left to my Relationship with Freddy to hear the stories about where he'd come from Yeah, and you got to be careful with that to some degree which I'm sure most of it was true But I mean again, I grew up with my grandpa being a drummer and kind of getting me into it and the stories I feel like with older guys. There's a bit of a tall tales kind of Thing where you need to take some of it. Yeah, I know what you're saying where it's like I'm not a hundred percent sure if this was exactly Okay, so, you know and also my my my Understanding and knowledge of that my insight into Freddy would be basically vested into my relationship with him where I would be with him at a particular event and When I heard the retelling of that event or story I'd be sitting and scratching my head and go wait that sounds vaguely familiar and I go wait a minute That's not how that went down, you know, so again I I don't know but I do know that you know Freddy had had allegedly is said that he hung with Philly Joe Jones in those period of times And they were practicing quite a bit. This was a time I think when Philly had lost his cabaret card that which he needed to be able to work in the clubs and You know, I guess at that time just looking back at how he assimilated things and was putting together, you know, what became his Educational process was based on all his activity of hanging with people and watching them I must say he was he had an amazing ear. He was an amazing listener And he was able to really dial in to what was going on with people conceptually so I think you know as he was there kind of Not running in the right crowd so to speak because you know, he was basically getting into junk at that time I think that was the main reason he left New York was to get out of there and stay alive and be healthy Which of course that didn't really happen because when he moved to Los Angeles, he got kind of again involved in junk and Took him a while to get cleaned up as well. But so so yeah, so going back to like getting his whole Educational thing together. I think again, he was a masterful observer Um communicator Let's just say he had a very cryptic way of putting out information. So that was where I came in. I was really having to Take and pick his words and kind of get meaning to them because a lot of stuff that he would say was quite cryptic And it would take you know, maybe a year later. You go. Oh, that's what he meant, you know So now what year? So tell everyone what year you started lessons with Freddie I started when I was about 18 in 1977 and so at that period of time He was at the I think what I look back and just from all my interactions because I was quite close with Freddie I was on that, you know, innermost circle of Freddie's world that was his greatest teaching point because he had this little house that he had lived in and He had it dialed in pretty well and I say for Freddie because Freddie was notoriously late And he kind of ran on Freddie time that you could show up for a lesson at four in the afternoon There'd be like two or three guys backed up and you go wait man. I thought I had a lesson at four It's like no no no no no no go go run run down to the to the seafood broiler for me And he'd have you do all these tasks, you know And he'd have very specific things like when you go to the bakery man Get me the rolls with the the sesame seeds not the poppy seeds man You get stuck in my teeth, you know, and then it would be a whole a whole thing And if you didn't follow directions, my goodness, you got the riot act read to you You he'd never ever let you like off the hook on that stuff So and then he'd give you he'd give you, you know, like let's say just as an example He'd go it's four dollars and seventy two cents bring me the change and he'd give you a five dollar bill You know, he'd know exactly how much it cost and all those little details And so anyway, so my study started in 77 and I went fairly straight till about 84 and in that time I was kind of You know in this in this stage I was I was pretty quick to respond to what he gave me and I really was enamored with his approach at that time So we had a good relationship. I think he really You know took me a little bit under his wing and then he would showcase me to guys Which I hated because I didn't I felt I didn't know what I was doing But I look back I go movement-wise and in terms of presenting and the technical approach I saw Oh, I did get that, you know You're heads in another place sometimes when you're thinking more about music and not just the technique and that's was my biggest aspiration was to really Formulate better musical skills, which I was working on diligently, but you know, the technique thing kind of came I don't want to say easy, but I did my work I really put in my time to to get that stuff together So he'd showcase me and it was really, you know kind of freaked me out and later on He did that all the time when I was hanging with him later in the 80s But I just wanted to throw back that with Freddie with the the junk thing junk thing and Escaping New York and coming out to Los Angeles. I think it was somewhere in the mid 60s 66 or 67 The great vibist Terry Gibbs Had a music store with a great drummer by the name of Mel Zelnik and Mel Zelnik had done like some, you know NBC orchestra stuff out here in Los Angeles Also was a drummer with the Benny Goodman sextet if I'm not mistaken and they opened a store and Freddie and Terry knew each other from the New York days and and Freddie looked up to Terry quite a bit because I guess Terry was kind of a little bit older or just had that more of a father figure and He basically took Freddie in and said look at clean yourself up and I'll give you a job teaching So Freddie started teaching at the music stop. I think he had already had a little, you know Maybe a few students earlier on but I think that would be a marking point where he really started to hit stride And he had a lot of guys that came around like so guys like Mike Barrett I don't think Mike was an earlier student. Don Lombardi was an early student of Freddie's John Hernandez from Igo Boingo. Yeah, Burley Drummond from Ambrosia There was a drummer that played with John Davidson by the name of Joey Harrick And that was the talk of my lessons when I came in because Joey was like this, you know Very successful guy with John Davidson and Freddie would always bring up Joey Joey Harrick, man So but it's like the previous version of like he showcased him and then you took over But I also want to say that like it it's interesting the the obvious, you know, the the drug problems and stuff. It's just It seems so like I don't want to say cinematic But like that era of like the 50s and the jazz guys and you make maybe famously like Miles Davis or something these guys getting mixed up with like heroin and and it's It's terrible, but it seems so like Common you just think of jazz in the 50s and these these these you know getting into drugs and it's such a problem And you're right you're getting pulled out of it and I'll give you a job if you clean yourself up I mean, yeah for him though for you know, I'm sure it wasn't overnight Obviously, but for pulling himself, you know out of that No, absolutely And that's where he started to kind of get his thing together and sort of position himself in the LA area as a Teacher of renown, you know and by the time I got there He had already established himself for those years before and there were a great deal of people I had several people who would tell me oh, you should if you really want to get your your skills together You got to go to Freddie Gruber One of those guys was Mel Zelnick from the music stop and it's interesting because Mel Did not like Freddie I found later on because I actually worked at the music stop starting my teaching career I always date my teaching career starting at 82 because that's when I took over at the music stop But I was teaching a little bit before that but and it's just ironic that that's where Freddie kind of started his Teaching and I was at the music stop, but for Mel would always say to me Yeah, if you want to get your stuff together Mel I'd just like really gravelly voice and he'd say you want to get your stuff together and go to Freddie Gruber But as I was teaching for Mel I found out that he was always bugged by Freddie and he didn't you know when Freddie was working there as a teacher He was always yelling at him. So it was like one of those things where I guess Freddie's Results and and what he was doing were highly respected by Mel But the way Freddie went about it in terms of his character was not looked upon so greatly so like it seems like a strong Personality to say the least But I'd like to hear maybe while we're you know in that 70s 80s era. Yes, what your lessons like first off All right, so how would you describe? The Freddie Gruber technique like what is it and then maybe a little bit about like you come in You know literally walking in the door to when you leave. Obviously, we know it would be super late And you'd be bringing in a you know a sandwich or yes What was it like? You know what I mean like we're on a drum set. We're on yeah No, you were on his old Ludwig drum set. He had this cool old kind of you know dark mahogany stained Actually, it was kind of like an oil finish. There was no lacquer on it Ludwig drum set calfskins on the bass drum Remo ambassadors on the toms, but everything had the old Remo Practice pads and those are the metal ones not the plastic ones with a little kind of ridge that sort of emulated a drum hoop and then You would sit down of course the first thing he said was play for me And you know you'd play in about you know 30 seconds or maybe a minute into it He'd get you know get a fair evaluation of where you're coming from. It's not that difficult I understand how that works in my teaching as well And then he would find just tear you apart. He would just oh my god. Jesus Christ, man You know it'd start just going you're gonna kill yourself or what the hell was that you know and so You know, he'd kind of bring you down. Well, I was 18 at the time So bringing me down was probably not too difficult because at 18, you know You don't maybe hell was have a lot of confidence and you get in the presence of a guy that you're You've been told is like the guy to go to you know, you're basically feeling pretty pretty bruised But anyway, so a lesson would entail my early lessons were because I lived in Woodland Hills and Freddie lived in Tarzana That's about I don't know about a 12 minute drive. So he'd always say you're in the neighborhood man, you know So he'd get me there on Mondays and I think noon and he usually was coming in from somewhere From the weekend because I'd show up sometimes at noon and he wasn't there and then he'd drive in in his firebird Kind of out of breath. Come on in man. Open the door. I'll throw you go go go sit down on the drums I'll be right there and then he'd start to Pour himself a bowl of all-brand and slice up the bananas and sit with you And so, you know, of course Scheduling wise you're saying it's supposed to be an hour lesson. Well, most lessons were maybe 22 minutes, you know Yeah, and that's just how we ran and then in the middle of my lesson There'd be this guy now at that time. There was a guy can't think of his name His name alludes me, but he was a show drummer and he would show up He was in his fifties and he wanted to get better on the on the trap kit He was mostly a percussionist for for shows, you know, whatever shows were in town in the Los Angeles area And so he'd show up and I'd still be doing then Freddie would go. Hey, hey, come on in here, man I want you to watch the kid play, you know, and I do my thing But so that was kind of my my early studies that first year or so as my schedule started to change and I get those Evening slots that would be more like the lesson would be at seven I'd show up at seven and there were three guys sitting on the couch and there was a guy On the drum set. I I was like Tolerant of that many people weren't I'll tell you who wasn't tolerant my girlfriend at the time. She'd tell me she'd say she'd give me the riot act This is this lady was a funny lady when I think back to that that period of my life She'd go you tell Freddy Gruber that your lessons at seven o'clock and I go I'm not telling Freddy anything I'm showing up for my lesson and when it ends it ends, you know, so Then that was again, that would be the time where if I showed up at seven He'd go like I haven't eaten all day man Can you run and so for me because I was one of those guys who was very Precise about stuff once he told me and gave me direction to do something or pick something up There was no question. He'd he'd go and Tell me, you know, like, okay, you sure you got that and I'd raise my eyebrow go like Freddy Who are you talking to, you know, and so he knew that I was a dependable lad and would get the order right You know, so I'll tell you I'll tell you a funny story though about the brow beating This was maybe I don't know So maybe a year and a half into it and I was you know, my brother had just started playing Guitar and was getting into the jazz guitar So he had traded in his Les Paul for an ES 175 for those of you, you don't know That's a hollow body Guitar jazz box kind of like what West Montgomery and Pat Matheny and all those great guys would play and so My brother was very determined. He was going to be a composer and And and do stuff. So we were starting to get on, you know, kind of get our little groove together and do some stuff And I was probably 19 maybe 20 at that point and I was like, you know nervous guy I'm reading out like yeah, you know, I really want to play with my brother and I I I want to you know I want to Be a jazz guy and I want to get my stuff together and I want to record records, you know I'm just like nervously chattering. Yeah, and Freddy's looking at me And he's like just doesn't look like he's feeling well And he didn't say anything which was peculiar for Freddy and there was nobody else there which was very odd because this was maybe a late afternoon lesson and He looked over he was sitting at his table Breakfast table. He picked out like a little bottle of some medication. He opened it up You know, just like took it swallow the water put it down And I'm still going on with my and I want to you know I want to do this and I want to do that and and Freddie eventually picks up that bottle like maybe about a minute later And he looks at the label on it and his eyes bug out. He goes Jesus Christ, man. Yeah. Yeah, you made me take the wrong medication. I don't know my guy I got a call that died. He just started freaking out on me. Oh boy. All right, so I'm losing. I'm going. Oh my god I'm sorry, you know, I didn't know what I you know, you know and so this was one of those times where It must have been I don't know could have been for two months following every time somebody would come in when I was saying This is the guy that almost killed me. You know, oh my god Yeah, it's like a care. I mean, it's just a character. It's like absolutely Freddy was the most interesting guy I I lived with him. I traveled with him all through Europe when I lived over there He came to visit me several trips where we did some clinics together And I brought him around to the Frankfurt music fair And we would stay in this little hotel outside of Frankfurt that some my cousins in Germany had and We'd make it our little home base or sometimes we'd go back to my apartment in Belgium And we would stay there for a few days before we were venturing out to somewhere else and it was really Challenging because Freddie was a handful to take care of But at the same time, you know, there was some golden moments of Being able to look back because this was in the 90s mind you so when I look back and I was able to Kind of get a little more distance from what I'd worked on I'd have really really pointed questions for him now again He was not always the best to answer he'd get kind of cryptic But when you hand him up at like three in the morning because Freddie was this night owl He'd get very animated and he could give you some just Kind of cryptic analogies and you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think I got it And then you know, I kind of like work it out where I figured out exactly what he was talking to Or how he was laying it out to me talking to me to kind of put it in a more conceptual base where I could go Okay, now I can articulate that a little bit better. That was the the the point where I really started to work on the narrative to how to teach and Take the concepts that I had gotten from him not I didn't just get stuff from Freddie There's other people that played into my teaching role, but it was really just fascinating to hang with him I'll tell you just here's another story if we because we're talking Freddie We want to do the the Fred talk so it is the Fred talk. Yeah so This is a long story, but I'll make it short. So again around that same period of time I was doing that same rap. I probably did that a few times It probably drove Freddie nuts where I was like guy and I want to I want to do this You know and try to you know state my goals And again, there was nobody there and at one point he just reached over to his Phonograph player pulled out a record laid it down put the stylus on the album and it was John Abercrombie's Timeless record. So they first tune is real frenetic and it's Jack D. Jeanette with the on-homer on B3 Oregon And I'd never heard anything like that. It was like a wickedly fast tempo like You know did it you know just super fast and I I stopped because he put the record on and I was just speechless and maybe about Two and a half minutes after listening to the record He pulled the needle off and he looked at me and and I just remember I was dumbfounded by what he said But he said do you think those guys are trying to make money man? and I went I don't know. So okay fast forward here. I am in 2006 at the Latvian the sell crusty jazz festival with my brother and the featured act was John Abercrombie with Adam Neusbaum and Gary Versace and My brother knows John loosely or knew him when he was alive And I admit Adam a few times too hung with him pretty extensively at Frankfurt a few years before and David said come on up. You want to talk and meet John and talk to Adam and I said I'm not sure if Adam will remember me and as soon as I walked in Adam's like big bear hug Bruce How you doing real friendly? I love he's such a personable guy as well as a fantastic player And John Abercrombie was sitting on the chair Just completely sunk in it toasted from their travels. I guess they had a hard travel to get up to Latvia and so I told him that exact story and At the end of that story he looked up at me and he had very seriously said some matter of fact We were trying to make money So I I a year later or so I'm at the the NAMM show now these times in the 2000s Freddie and I I was you know, I kind of pulled away from Freddie and it really bugged him and it was Not the cleanest of breaks and he was just pissed at me. So whenever I would go and visit I'd bring my brother as a buffer At the NAMM show you'd always see Freddie around because he'd be there You know, of course, he'd get there like four in the afternoon or five right before it shuts down And then they'd have to kick him out But anyway, so I had his attention for a minute and he was kind of you know Unnerved that I was talking to him, but I said Freddie I got to tell you a story So I laid out the beginning story about when he put the record on for me I told him the part about where I saw John Abercrombie and when I hit that mark and said and John said to me Well, as a matter of fact, we were trying to make money Freddie looked at me went. Oh back to the coda, huh? Oh My god, so these were these were the trials and tribulations of hanging with Freddie But I must say that we had some riotous laughing in Germany I mean and and when I traveled with him and as well when I was at his house I was the go-to guy. I was the guy who house that for him I was the only guy he left the key to open the drum room He would not allow that room into that house. Yeah, he had he had a door That was entering this little hallway where the bathroom was in two bedrooms And that door had a lock and each bedroom door had a lock and whenever I would house it for him Which I did many times I'd say Freddie. I want the drum key so I can go in and practice and he go ah Ah Okay, you know and he'd relent but but I know nobody ever got that privilege You know that was like a like an honor to have his trust again Like I said, he saw me as a very trustworthy lad who Said as he would say you say what to play and play what you say Becker, you know man Which speaks to your character obviously because I mean everyone listening can tell you're a great guy But when someone I always think it's like if you have a boss or something at work Who just you know, everyone's kind of like he just whatever you do just someone above you who who isn't a nice person Not night it not that Freddy's not a nice person, but and and they respect you and they're nice to you it Feels better. You know what? I mean it goes further when you you impress someone who's a tough You know critic of who's a little bit cynical of everything like you it speaks to your character Well, you know and there were things like about Freddy that you knew that he just didn't do for other people And again reflecting back. I know that he had a high regard for me So the the the breaking period was just as he got older He didn't care so much like his teaching career had slowly slipped away, but he had money so it didn't really matter he was well taken care of and It seemed to me he was more in Involved in trying to just keep his legacy and being that that eccentric character and kind of Amplifying it so that it became even larger because anything that you would see or hear from people now especially those last, you know 11 or 12 years of his life from 99 to 2011 you'd go Oh, yeah, like it was like he was like a caricature of what he was, you know and trying to I think he had the line as I recalls like I don't care whether you love me or hate me I want you to know who I am Yeah was the kind of the line so to speak and and that that was you know, that was good I think that he had More things involved in terms of what he could have brought forward I he lived his life how he wanted to so I have no, you know, right to say anything regarding that but You know has his teaching declined and I had moved back to LA I found myself in his clutches for you know, the wrong side of things and I was looking after him quite a bit and I realized that as his health started to you know Now it wasn't declining, but his choices were declining So he wanted to get high again, and I think nothing more was like he just wanted me to kind of be like a high buddy with him and I saw it, you know To devastating roads I could either be dead or in jail and I said I got to get out of here And you know it was not a pleasant leaving and When when when I left he was mad at me for years I'd have to go over with my brother like I said earlier to make pilgrimage and I I just wanted to go Freddie I just want to honor the 23 years or so that we hung because we had some great rip-roaring times and It would take him all about it Maybe an hour an hour and a half if we sat at the house Before he would just kind of go to a relaxed posture and then be talking to me as if we talked the day before You know the first thing would be we'd knock on the door and He'd see my brother and he'd go David and he'd give him a big hug And then he'd look at me raise his eyebrow drop his glasses and go hey, man Oh my god, that's just it's just so funny. He's such a character. Oh, he was amazing. I mean in terms of that I mean, I know there's other people have stories I have so many stories of Freddie that I could go on for you know for forever I should really try to chart them out. Here's a little of Freddie's character When we were in Europe, it was very challenging for him because as you know People well, maybe you don't know but people in the Netherlands and people in the Flemish part of Belgium They all speak English pretty well but they're not it's not their native language and The first trip that Freddie made to to visit me, which was funny. I moved in in May of 92 and Freddie was like freaking out that I was leaving. He was like, you know really want to go You know and all this stuff and what I assessed after that was no, you don't want me to go Yeah, and he arranged a trip two months later He was on my doorstep two months later and he didn't like to travel and And and lean upon anybody but again, I guess my reliability was was a factor in him trusting me that he made for Trips over there and we hung quite extensively but he had a trip planned the first time he went there and He was really agitated about the the cultural elements of things and we were driving around Quite a bit. We went down to Austria. We went to Germany We were going to like there was a school in Vienna that I eventually taught at that was sort of patterned after the musicians Institute and There was a store in Frankfurt a pretty big drum shop and we went there and we met like one of the drum magazine guys from the Magazine drums and percussion We went to the Netherlands and met the guy who at the time was with the Dutch magazine we also met a teacher who was not too far from where I lived in Antwerp and we just kind of made the rounds and he was super agitated and At one point in the evening of I don't know maybe the eighth day We were hanging out and we got a mellow like we we we got some Hash up there in the Netherlands and we were smoking a little hash and I put on Bill Evans Explorations And we were just hanging and Freddie got really relaxed and it was great because I knew I could get Freddie sometimes into that zone and We were just chatting about music and hanging and At the end like about one o'clock I go I got to go to bed Freddie So I showed him that there was a timer light on the hallway wall You know walk straight. There's the bathroom and on the other side where the bathroom door is on right outside that door There's another light to put the timer light on and so He went to the bathroom This is probably maybe three in the morning He walked out And he didn't turn that light on and when you walked out that bathroom you took three steps forward There was a flight of stairs. Oh my you're living over a bar and those narrow stairs of Belgium and and the Netherlands kind of those kind of steep and narrow And he fell man right down the stairs and so I heard this And I woke up and my brother and I was sharing a room And I went what what what the hell was that and within one second you hear this Jesus Christ God damn it. And so My brother jumps out a bit runs flips the light on looks at Freddy's at the bottom of the stairs, you know kind of coiled up Thankfully all he did was dislocated his shoulder. Oh, man. And so It was just unbelievable. So I had to You know his trip that he had planned to do some other things He was gonna go to the UK and go to London and hang with the guys from Ronnie Scott's cuz they they booked buddy there all the time and he knew those guys and So he had to go to the hospital. He's in the back of an ambulance I didn't want to be with him cuz I was freaking out So I was driving the rental car that we had and my brother was in the back of the ambulance with him And he was squeezing my brother's hand so tight go. I don't want to die, you know But all it was is was a dislocated shoulder So We would bring him food because the hospital food was horrible And at one point he was telling us a story. He goes that nurse man She doesn't know how to how to hit a vein at all, you know So he's kind of talking up his heroin experiences And he said I wanted to grab the needle out her hand and jab it in my own thigh for myself You know God wow Anyway, those those were the those were the Freddy trials and tribulations Again when I look back There's things that I think about that he imparted to me one piece of wisdom that I hold to my Day Lee what I want to say gratitude was he would all say Bruce cover it up front man now you can look at that phrase and You could have a lot of meaning to it But it does envelop anything that you want to put forward Whether it was think things through is what he would tell me really was by saying cover it up front, you know No, no the the whole range of what you're getting involved in so you really think it through Sometimes that's not necessarily the best advice because it's good to fly by the seat of your pants and take chances as well You don't want to get too, you know trapped by the thinking mode and remove yourself from that Hey, I'm just gonna go do this, you know, and sometimes that's what is What creativity is all about I'm gonna do this and you just go with it, you know So but I still live by that cover it up front in every faction to to a varying degree I do have a nice balance of being you know taking chances I used to travel to Europe quite a bit do a lot of workshops I'd book them on my own and my cover it up front was I had a little bank account over in Europe I had several friends if anything ever fell through the floor I'd have a nice three week vacation in Europe, but thankfully nothing ever happened like that I always was able to you know work with the right people who honored their word and and made things happen So sure well, that's a great because before when you when you were saying he would say sort of cryptic things I was thinking what does that mean but saying cover it up front? I mean that's that's something where like I bet you'd be in multiple situations and you just go Oh, that could be that too. It's yes. I mean what a man of He sounds very very deep, but like in certain elements of his personality It's a little bit more not so deep more like oh, that's Freddie. That's what you get but yeah Yeah, you know, I you'd have to talk to you know I mean I had a great deal of conversations with a few people and I think they would would come to the same agreement if I've Talked to Steve Smith before about it. I think he would have somewhat of the same telling or if You know Peter Erskine told me about his story with trying to study with Freddie and And Freddie said something to him that just clicked You know, it was just like he did like a dance step Which Freddie had this certain dance step that he would always do and It made sense to what Peter was seeking and searching And so it really opened up Peter's head to kind of validate what he was where what path he was on and And and what he wanted from Freddie now for for some guys that may have been again like a cryptic or an elusive analogy But for a bright insightful guy like Peter It was very clear, you know But he did have to chase he like everybody else had to chase down Freddie You would think that that you know that he would be a little different around those people like the guys that were like of Higher status like a Neil Peart. No, he was the same like Neil after his You know Tragedy with his wife and his daughter at that time Spent some time in that back room that I used to lay into that room when I was how sitting for Freddie Now I didn't get a chance to meet Neil at that time. I was there at those periods that that's when I was still hanging with Freddie So but but I think Freddie would have honored Neil's anonymity at that time and not want anybody to bug him. So he probably would have You know not said anything maybe I would have come over or he might not have said anybody's in the back room sleeping or anything like that Or he might have just said like no, no, not not today, man. I'm busy. Yeah, that's some Neil's situation was obviously so tragic where in in a short period of time he lost his wife So people know obviously he lost his wife and his daughter. Yeah within a year within a year. Yeah unbelievable But yeah, that's all right. So that's a perfect transition to talk a little bit about Freddie Gruber as this Teacher of guys like obviously you but you know, you were a long long long time teacher friend like his number one guy But I'm talking like Vinnie Neil Steve Smith Dave Weckel as you said Peter Erskine, okay? Well, I was there for two of Steve Smith lessons, but here's how it would play I would show up and Freddie would go sit down to play So one of the things and it took me I think it was after the time that I played for Dave Weckel And it was probably 94 and I didn't want to go over to play for Dave I was like I had flown in from Europe. I was still living over there And I called Freddie up or maybe he called me and he said Bruce. What are you doing? I said, I'm jet lagging. I'm just about to go to sleep because no no no no no I want you to come over David's here. Okay, David So I like who the hell is David and Freddie Riley Responding Weckel, who do you think and I'm like, well, how do I know Dave? I never heard of David He's Dave as far as I know so Freddie badgered me and I Relented I went down there and I'm driving down Ventura Boulevard. I'm thinking like what the hell am I gonna play for this guy? So when I sat down and played, you know, I just did my thing and my loose jazz Between the halftime shuffle and kind of swing in and playing some figures and Dave was very kind and very You know friendly about a man sounds great and blah blah blah We had a nice little chat and we kind of hung and we were like all sitting there for a minute and then Freddie would go all right man But you know kind of leave and so funny you didn't get a chance to hear The phraseology that Freddie would use to color the imagine of Dave and exactly what he was doing I I can understand bits and pieces of what he what he did with Dave just by watching Dave play But I've never had in-depth conversations same with Steve. I I was there for two lessons with Steve Smith At the same rundown, but there were many other guys. I watched him teach. So that period of time between Post-student well, you know, I watched him because you'd be sitting there. Anyway, sometimes Back at the old house, but when he moved into the other house that he that he remained in till he passed I was there as Sometimes like the caretaker looking over Freddie because I'd call him up and I'd have you know time off when I wasn't on the road You go, what are you doing? I said nothing. He goes come on over. I said, what are you doing Freddie? He goes, I'm working come on over so I'd hang and I'd watch him teach like about five guys I'd sit on the floor and At that time in the 90s His presentation had broken away from any books when I studied with him in the 70s He was very meticulous about using literature from the buddy rich book From the Roy Burns Lou Malin book finger control From Ted Reed syncopation There was a little cool rock book that we worked from that was you know again He rewrote everything I say in other words He would supply the conceptual approach to as to how we were going to go through that And this one little rock book. It was like I don't it's like a 10 page book It's called 72 modern rock and roll book rock and roll patterns, and it doesn't exist anymore but he broke it down and We'd we'd we'd implement the bass drum technique that we were involved in We'd implement the the approach to the symbol whether it was the push pull or whether it was like laying out like in a more molar thing Which he didn't call it molar. I later found out through Dom Familaro that Freddie had studied with Joe Morello and I did know this via Jimmy Chapin that Freddie had studied with Jimmy So going back to my earlier statement about Freddie being a master observer of people and what they do I think he was an excellent guy who collected data and was able to put it into his fold now Mind you he didn't really intimate where he got the stuff So like for the push-pull technique, he called it the system. I never asked him Why the hell did you call it the system? I didn't I didn't think to that. He didn't call it molar He just called it the whip snap motion and so We would implement those and you know go through oh man so much material I have you know like a pretty big stack of books that I went through and When I was watching him teach as the 80s rolled on into the 90s It became less by the time the 90s rolled around There was like no books It was more posture gesturing getting guys to do certain things and conceptual stuff and many guys I don't say many but there's guys who studied at that period of time who had come to me one notable was Daniel glass Daniel Yeah, I remember him like just perplexed like well I don't really get what what he was saying And so Danny studied with me a little bit at that time in the late 90s when I was still hanging with Freddie and then Around 2006 or seven Daniel studied with me for a good couple of years or so And I was able to really kind of expound on a lot of stuff and expound I say, you know my interpretations are brought from playing music and from As well as you know doing sessions and stuff like that So I was able to bring those things into a more real world framework for people But in in those 90s periods like you know, I remember being there for a lesson for the Tristan Bowden Steve Houghton a Young Joey Warnocker was there on those Afternoons when I was there back when I wasn't studying so back in the like mid to late 80s and Again his approach was a little book oriented, but less book oriented And it was hard to assess because I can't remember the details. I do remember certain details There was this one crazy drummer who was like really ultimately talented in any kind of polyrhythmic playing You know, it was just super in his vernacular to just pull that stuff out and he was a wacky kid But he played you just go my god This guy is ridiculous in what he can do. He just didn't have a user-friendly personality to get into a work mode And I know that in that specific Situation Freddy had him going through what I went through as well was this Nick Saroli book It was called Independence volume one, but Freddy had again a very unique way of doing stuff So any literature that you would see from Freddy would always have a very pointed interpretation as to what you were to do And so it would match your needs as he would say, okay You need to work on this take this book and work through this obviously, but yes essentially Yeah, there was some there was always a personalized element to it. So things could look similar to other guys like because I had a Recently in the last I haven't seen him now Maybe about a year and a year or so in terms of studying with me But a guy who came a little bit after me about maybe eight or ten months after me was this guy David Bronson and David played with the righteous brothers for 20-something years and now he's now he's the product manager for Istanbul Mehmet And David came to me because he studied with Freddie for a short period of time Maybe about a year a year and a half and I got a command David He was the guy who stayed with Freddie in the last days of Freddie's life Which probably was no picnic and not an easy thing to do and David's a very tolerant but also very Let's say stands in his own shoes is not gonna waffle. So like if Freddie would give him any grief David would just go All right, Freddie. I'll just leave that you know or whatever But anyway Bronson came to me to get some clarity on some of the things that we had worked on and so You know going through what he had in his books was very similar to me but again There was a personalization to kind of help build and formulate your musical direction with what you want to do It's exactly how I would Keep my ears peeled to what my students are about, you know I've been very blessed to have some guys like David Garibaldi and Tristan Bowden as a student of mine and Brian had who played with Roger Hudson or plays with still I of course nobody's doing any gigs many guys. I got that the guy who plays with Semi-sonic Jake's Jake Slikter as a student of mine gave forward who played with little feet for many years Daniel Glass like I said, I had Clayton Cameron come out. I I would just say this I've given some tutelage or just some Conceptual conversation with Jojo Mayer about his lessons with Freddie to break down some foot stuff, you know So that I'd say more of a consultation, but wow, you know, it's it's just and you're carrying it on though where like Where these I mean everyone you're naming yourself included you like you guys are all this whole group is like Mega drummers, let's be real. They're famous top-level drummers and it's just like this Super cool thing that a lot of times maybe non drummers or younger earlier on drummers Don't really realize that the learning and the education never stops and I think obviously with Freddie like and it probably Translates on to you and I think now it's more common where people Just I don't know it's easier to find a good teacher such as yourself But where did people get this did did word of mouth about Freddie? Oh, yeah Spread is that how these you know super drummers would find them is just through word of mouth Yeah I mean another another guy that I heard Freddie's name from was actually my parents back in the mid 70s were involved in the Dog show circuit. They were showing Alaskan malamutes and there was a guy Who was a regular fixture at I think mostly the Southern, California? California Shows who was a photographer and he was a drummer his name was Eddie Rubin He had played with Neil Diamond in the in the early portion of Neil's career. I think in the late 60s and My mother was you know always talking about her sons Now I've done this in imitation of my mom before but it's not my mom my mom's Dutch So she's got a thick Dutch accent But she would say all my boys they played drop my one son plays guitar on the other plays drums and Eddie Rubin would say Oh, you got your son should study with Freddie Gruber. So I heard that from my mother again I heard it from Mel Zelnik before I studied with Freddie and My friend Mark Shulman and I were talking about that at the time because that's about the period of time that Mark And I became more friendly with one another he was a little bit younger and he was a young talented whipper snapper and I was a little bit hot-headed like who's this young kid, you know But as we grew up just in those high school years I became a little more friendly with him and he was saying yeah, there's this guy Freddie Gruber But you don't want to bother with him You should go to this guy who was a student and this guy was this guy by the name of rich sandac who I studied with a little bit as a Pre freddy insight as to what freddy did And rich did a great job. I liked the way he taught and I I think I studied with rich for Very short time because as I recall and this might this is validated by my brother David I called up freddy and the first time I spoke to him on the phone. He was you know running you through the mill so Okay, how old he and I said well, I'm 18 he goes. I really don't teach kids Who are you working with and I said whom whom I'm working with I'm a kid in school, you know and well I don't know. I'm really booked up. I mean maybe call me next week So what he was doing was just kind of gather gathering. Are you going to be serious and follow through? And so because he was so You know kind of running me through the mill. I got agitated and I just said all right, man Well, whatever I'll call you back a later date, you know And so once I went through this series of lessons with rich and I felt like oh, I get this whole thing. All right, cool My brother alleges now. I don't remember this specifically, but he was there I said I picked up the phone and freddy answered and I said freddy. This is bruce becker. I'm ready That's awesome Man, it's like karate or something. Yeah. Yeah, exactly exactly. So, you know Going back to The the the whole you know the whole stream of consciousness here freddy was an interesting dude He had some some really great insights I know that there's a lot of people that out there in the drum community didn't really get what he was about and it's very um Elusive as to what information is out there Um those who who around him would be able to attest to what he was able to do I think you know, he's Definitely somebody that that was a a great observer and a great assistance To a great deal of people. I mean when you watch dave weckel play you can you can just see The the the great changed how dave evolved his post freddy studies He's so fluid and just so demonstrative of the essence of what that's all about And so you have no greater Um, what he would say like signpost of what what freddy was capable of, you know, now we can't dismiss dave's tenacity dave is a hard-working guy who's Super intelligent bright and insightful and has you know, very concrete goals that he's achieved so The the the bonding between the two really put it up to a level where you go like yeah There there it is, you know as well as steve smith. I mean watch steve smith from 1985 And then his studies would have been Oh, I think 90 91 somewhere around that period 89 90 91 And again, you go look at look at the amount of fluidity that steve smith has achieved I mean, it's just it's again. It speaks volumes to what freddy was capable of. There's many guys that we that maybe people don't know about for example Burley drumming from ambrosia Or mike baird, you know, who was a session guy also was the follow-up drummer to steve smith and journey for a period of time Did those classic billy idle cuts? Um, who else uh, john hernan is from lago boy. I mentioned these names earlier but you know these guys those guys had very poignant careers and did stuff that was great contributions to the music world and they were all you know Kind of led in there and and and facilitated or freddy helped facilitate what their goals were and Help to achieve that. Yeah, it sounds like a club almost Of guys like a fraternity almost where like You know and and I get that where and and steve fiddick was on the on the show and talked about his lessons with joe morello And it would be a thing where again, we're like and i've said this with other, you know examples of teachers who are a little bit Their own person where where you you either like it or you hate it You either say i'm okay to wait three hours or go to your do your errands, which it was very similar with joe but All right now, let me ask you because i'm sure you know, like you said, there's many many drummers. He's he's taught but We we is there any other Neil peered information because i just think that's such an iconic Thing where it put freddy. I know he was already on the map, but i'm talking about like, you know household name right right because That's the the cool thing what neil did was he really kind of you know took his platform And kind of led freddy into that platform to be introduced to a myriad of people who would probably never know who freddy gruber was and Outside of that. I really don't know because again like at that period of time. So neil would have been Studying more in that earlier 90s period so somewhere about that buddy rich tribute before his his tragedy with his wife and his and his daughter yeah, and so I was in europe so unfortunately like i said i never got a chance to meet neil. I was a huge fan I was uh very lucky to have just Just tripped into rush by the fact that i went to a concert december 1st 1976 And rush was the opening act for ted newgent cool and they were traveling on the all the world's stage record And my brother and i were already playing in our rock trio You know that was our idea. We wanted to be a power trio and i saw these guys and my my Jaw hit the floor and i went oh my god. This is amazing. And so i was insta fan and i followed Pretty steadily up until moving pictures I would listen to the hits that followed the radio hits and i loved the tunes, you know So whether it was you know time standstill or whatever Like i've i listened to those in fact my kids that my i have two very young kids I have a four and a half or well soon to be five-year-old boy and soon to be eight-year-old daughter But i would go through especially when neil passed away, you know roughly that a little bit more than a year ago I went through a whole as i'm sure everybody did a whole You know revamping of the stuff that i knew and then also going back and listening to things i didn't know But i wish i knew more about the relationship with neil and um and freddy I just know that he was very respectful of freddy's teachings Yeah, he had a high regard and he had a platform where he was able to bring freddy and allow freddy to step forward even as cryptic and kind of nutty as freddy is and um that was probably One of the greater attributes Of what you know freddy was able to kind of fall into again just for the for the recognition or the world stage platform That neil brought to him Yeah, from what i've seen and heard that it neil i believe really Talked a lot about that that fluidity like you mentioned that freddy could bring to him in the motion and the traditional grip and You know, it's a different world than the prog You know rush world, but all right, so is we're getting close to the end here And this is just like been unbelievable to get these firsthand experiences and we almost it's like The voice the voice of freddy that you get to use almost as a uh a sammy davis jr. Hint to it Well, well i've been told i was once in frankfurt at a uh dinner with don lambardi and freddy and many people may not know this But freddy was a part owner in dw for many years and freddy always had this funny attitude against don so we were the three of us And freddy was there and i looked at don and i did like one of my freddy impressions And don like looked at me bright and he goes that's the best freddy. I've ever heard Wow, okay, so we're getting the real deal Ah pretty close. I could channel a lot. I don't do it as often But since we're on the the mode of fred talk It seems quite appropriate to bring that to light and kind of You know give freddy his due and give the tribute to him as what we're putting together here today Yeah, oh my gosh. That's so cool. All right, so as we get close to the end here Let's um well first off. Let's give a big shout out to your student Long-time listener of the show who has just been such a nice guy to me Steve Hatfield who recommended you for this episode and really thank god stuck on me to um get it together because That's awesome. I should say to people that if you suggest an episode I always write them down or at least in the last year. I've gotten better about it I always write them down some of them take a long time to get to but I have them all um Written down, but thank you to steve Yes, steve. See he's a great dude. Yeah, well on that note. Where can people find you? Lessons all that stuff. Are you giving online lessons? Let's talk about you for a little bit as we close out here I'm uh, I'm available online. Um, I'm um, you know, I have a healthy schedule Thankfully so with all the covet my my lane of playing Had slowly diminished over the last six years or so just by the landscape of who I was working with and as my teaching started to really get Larger and I have Two two people to thank one would be drum channel They they sort of you brought me up there for a couple of years and that started it And then when I went to Drumeo it went off the hook So a big thanks to to Jared Falk and and davidkinson and all the people up at drumeo, but I'm available Uh bruce becker.com is my website. You could follow me on facebook I think it's bruce becker drums and I think on instagram. It's bruce becker drums and I think on youtube It's bruce becker drums pretty easy And I'm not a guy who's you know social media nut because it's it's very challenging. I'm teaching every day pretty extensively And uh, so it's it's hard to kind of keep up with that But I do post some stuff if you go to my youtube channel and subscribe you'll see some really great nuggets I just don't want to be too redundant. Sure. Although there is redundancy in what we all do Yeah, and so those are the ways to get ahold of me and if you're really serious about you know I have a very detailed comprehensive way of breaking things up and making it into digestible bits and again that was brought forward by all my cryptic Trying to really build into what freddy was really putting forward coupled with my my teaching experiences were A lot of them were you know back in europe when I did clinics to people who did not speak english as a first language So there you have to be very careful careful how you describe and put things forward so But if you're serious and you want it if you want to change your game That's what I do. I do it day in and day out This this is technically my 39th year as I said dating back to my 1982 started the music stop But I've been teaching a little longer than that so you got 40 years of Of teaching experience and insights that that are that are you know well crafted now The verbalization of it is super simple to me I see it like very easy little micro steps to get changes in everybody's playing That's awesome. And and as you know as everyone knows you're never Too old or too experienced or too young or anything to be taking lessons a great a great deal of my students are in their 50s and 60s like I said, I had David Garibaldi for a little over two years He's in his 70s Tristan Bowden is now I think he'll be 70 coming this year Uh and then several guys who are just you know guys who are out working A day job, but they love to play and they get out there and gig on the weekend and they're all talented guys, you know, they're just Really looking at building up their game and you know, I've numerous guys we could talk to you that would give you the You know the the uh, what do you want to say the endorsement go like yeah, man? This has been great So I just yeah, you know work real hard I'm not one who sits idly by I try to bring my a game every single time I show up And I have like I said progressive steps to make changes. That's awesome. So that's bruce Be ck er bruce becker.com and um, obviously you can tell by listening that uh bruce is a nice guy and we'll um, we'll take care of you so Bruce oh and let me tell people the bruce is kind enough to hang out for you know another 10 or 15 minutes or so And I think maybe we just talk about some more freddy stories and some uh, some fun more info about your your younger days And and some some stuff about the lessons. So sure um, if you want more info And another little you know short episode with bruce It is a patreon bonus episode So you can go to drumhistorypodcast.com And there's a patreon button or I think it's patreon.com slash drum history podcast whatever works for you So on that note bruce, thanks so much for being on the show and we will talk shortly for the bonus episode Thank you very much bart and thank you for your contributions to the drum community And it was a pleasure to speak with you about freddy gruber If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history And please share rate and leave a review and let me know topics that you would like to learn about in the future Until next time keep on learning