 I need help with some chewing. Are you up for it? Some chewing. Yes, because it's funny because I want to piggyback on the property right idea. Okay, because I was reading Understanding Objectivism. And in the book, I found out that I have an intrinsic view of property right. And in the book, Leonard Pickoff said if you are swimming in the ocean and you happen to go on an island and someone is there, say it is my property so you cannot go there. He literally said, well, you just hope to kill him first before he kills you. And I was like, when I was reading this, I was, oh, well, there is something I'm not understanding because so I dig a little deeper. And I understand now that this particular situation is not because there is no society. So property right in that context doesn't apply. Am I correct so far? Yes, it's an emergency. There's no context of society and you cannot use your property to, you know, you cannot in the name of defending your property rights cause somebody else grieve home. You know, so for example, a different example would be. Okay, because just, just so long because I came up with another one, which could be closer to reality. It's closer because it's still a forfeit, but let's suppose that we have a objective as society. Like when I when I mean by that is like capitalism, where where government is only there to protect you and properties really owned by people private people. And let's suppose I have, I'm making a road trip down to the US and I came to Texas and my car broke. And so I took my cell phone and no battery so I need, I need help. And I saw a city along the road further down. So I go there. But to my surprise, the city is run by racist and they are all black people and they don't want to help me. But if they don't help me, I'll die. So is it the same situation as the island or since there is clearly a society there with property and all that the same logic apply or it doesn't know it. I mean, you're creating a sci-fi example again because it's a capitalist country but somehow this society full of racists who actually, while they're racist. They completely protect property rights and they are completely pro-capitalism and they live in this flourishing city somehow. I mean none of that makes sense right none of that is consistent and congruent. Look, if you're on the verge of death, then you got to do what you got to do to survive. And if that means stealing somebody's phone and making a phone call and then returning that phone to them. Then that's what you do and you know, given that it's a capitalist society, remember, then the legal system will punish you but the punishment is not going to be very large because you were dying and nobody would help you and you just did this to survive and you would be slapped on the wrist and have to pay a fine or something and you'd have to leave right. So that's the, so you realize that you're breaking the law in a sense you realize you're violating you're breaking somebody else's rights. You're willing to suffer the consequences because in this context, your life depends on it. And let yourself die because these people are being irrational right because they're racist. Okay, so again, that would never happen because no such society could exist. No, I know it was just like the principle that I was trying to understand like where you draw the line because the follow up question is similar. So, instead of a racist society, let's suppose that you you lost your job like here where I live in Montreal. Well, I lived in Montreal now I'm, I don't live there anymore but there was the homeless people that literally broke glasses from the commerce to to get arrested, and they were put in prison, because it was author in winters, and they get free meals. So my questioning is, at one point, should you accept that someone breaks the law to help themselves survive. You know, you know where I'm going, because if I can quote unquote do whatever it takes to survive. That's so removed from the other examples because now you're taking somebody who's clearly irrational, somebody who's clearly not productive, somebody who's clearly not seeking their own rational long term self interest. You know, then it's meaningless. They can never do anything. They can't do anything right. So you can't accept what they're doing because they put themselves into this position. It's not a rational person who an accident happened he fell out of a boat and he lands up on an island or or you got stuck in your car and you didn't mean it and you're generally productive and you have a phone but you ran out of batteries. You know, it's not a rational person, it's, it's, you're now taking about irrationality, unproductivity, immorality, and you're saying when, when can they do XYZ. They can never be right in a sense. Okay, so, so if I understand correctly, in the first two example, I could be a quote unquote, good person, a rational person but their circumstance is not right for me so I need quote unquote help. And the third one is more some something like is perpetual it's it's something that you created because of your habit or something like that and therefore it's for that reason that you cannot do like break the glass or something like that because it's something repetitive you're you're not productive, right? Yes. That's right. Okay, okay, I understand better. 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