 I'm James Milan. Welcome to this episode of Talk of the Town. Those of you who have seen Talk of the Town before know that one of the things we like to do when we have the opportunity is to talk to somebody who has taken a new position in town and especially positions of consequence and that certainly is the case today. One difference though is that Margaret Cretal Thomas, who we are going to be talking to today, is new to the position that we're going to be talking about, but certainly not new to Arlington. She's been working here as Metco director for at least eight years now and has taken on this new position and that is the DEI director in Arlington Public Schools. So DEI you'll be familiar with I think that's diversity, equity, and inclusion. And with that rather lengthy intro, let me invite Margaret into the conversation. So first of all, Margaret, thanks for being here and here is interesting because you're in our control room while I'm in our home because we had a little bit of a snafu in communication, but it's wonderful to talk to you anyway. Thanks so much for taking the time, we appreciate it. No problem. Yeah, so I was mentioning that you have been working in Arlington for a while now. Why don't we start our conversation by just having you let us know how has that gone? How has your experience been as Metco director for these years? And how did you come to that job? So I was Metco director for Arlington Public Schools for eight years. I started in August of well, September of 2012. Actually, I was working for Europe. So the funny story is I had just started working for Europe. That was my first day and I got a call from Arlington because I had been looking for different jobs for quite a while. I had been actually unemployed for three years. So I'm in the human resource office in Europe and I get a call from Rob Siegel to come in for an interview. Beast of Famine, right? Beast of Famine, right. So I went through the interview process, actually got the position. Dr. Bodie offered me the position and I had been in the role for the last eight years. My welcome into Arlington was great. I was able to build a program from the predecessor, you know, take the program to the next level. Yeah, interrupt for a second. Sorry, because I just realized it would be useful probably for some in our audience just for us to describe what the Metco program is. And then we can you can carry on from there. Okay, so Metco is the acronym that stands for Metropolitan Council for Educational Opportunities. It came about in the year of 1966 from Operation Exodus. Operation Exodus is when parents in Boston was looking for better education for their children. Busing was starting to happen around that time. So a group of activist parents got together, partnered with suburban schools, and the first students rolled out in 1966. Arlington is actually one of the first of those towns of the seven towns that started. And so here we are today. We have 32 towns that participate in the Metco program since its inception. And Metco is actually a state law, the Racial Invalence Act, and we're online on item under the governor's budget. And you said that, you know, I didn't know. And it's nice to hear actually that Arlington is one of the seven original communities to participate in the program. But obviously, therefore, it's been going on for a while here. And you took over, as you said, in 2012, building on the work of predecessors. But tell us just a little bit about, you know, again, what the challenges, the opportunities, etc., are in that role. And really what your primary mission is there? Being or have been a Metco director, one of your primary roles is that you want to make sure that you're integrating the program into the district and into the community. You know, sometimes it's, you know, programs can be looked at like the programs over here and the districts over here. And so it's really about making sure that the program is underneath the district. It's part of the district. It's not a silo program. I like to say, you know, that we are all students are Arlington public school students, and they participate in a program called the Metco program. So that's one of the main things. The other thing is to ensure academic achievement for all students K to 12, we do have students in three elementary schools, two of the middle schools and one of the high schools. Since I've come on in 2012, we've had 100% graduation rate. Students go into colleges or what vocational schools or working whatever they feel that they deem that they want to do. We've had one student that was accepted into the posse foundation scholarship about two years ago. And he's at Buck now right now. But a lot of our students have already some of them have already graduated some of them are in master's program, some of them, there was one of my students. My first year I came he's in a PhD program. And so that's the other responsibility of being a medical director. The other thing is to ensure that our students are integrated into the community. And that is, you know, that's a merit of ways that you can do that. Most of our students are that, you know, whether it be sports, we've had students that have been in the play, we have students that have been on a swim team, we have students that have participated in clubs or been on school council. And so in that way that they are also integrated also into the community of Arlington public schools. The other thing is being a medical director, you're part of the leadership, the administration to make sure that the program is aligning with the district goals and seeing that forth. Well, that's, you know, a couple of comments. One is starting with the 100 percent graduation rate. I mean, obviously that's that's an excellent, excellent achievement and baseline. But then also as you describe, I know from my previous life as a teacher for a lot of years, having helped with some posse applications myself, that is a rigorous process. And that is a true distinction posse scholar. So congratulations on that as well. Students who are moved on to grad studies, etc. Really great, great work, obviously having been done in terms of supporting the students academically and socially. Because as you said, the integration piece, I'm sure, is a constant challenge, you know, with people traveling from other neighborhoods having to build in that travel time, and just, you know, trying to to, you know, help help all those young people to feel included in the community that they go to school. And again, I'm sure, quite a bit of work and clearly the numbers and the results show that you have been doing an excellent job, which takes me to my next question, which is, okay, clearly that work is both important, you were committed to it and clearly you were seeing results. So I imagine one alternative would have been to continue in that role. However, tell us how it is that you decided to instead pivot and move over into this brand new position. How did that come about? Yeah, I just want to say one thing before I answer that question. James is that I know that when we think about the Mecca program and students coming in to suburban districts, I always want to say that the students also bring a wealth of their culture and who they are into the district. There's so much that we learn. So that this experience goes both ways, that they are bringing something to the district as much as the district is giving to them. So I just wanted to say that. Excellent point. Thank you for that. So how did I get into the position? For the last several years, I've been doing some professional development for teachers a couple of years ago. We have our PD day. We bring in keynote speakers and from there we divide up into several other workshops. From those days, what I've been was hearing from teachers is that they understood the message. They just wanted to know how. They wanted to know how can I do this? What's the application? And so I am also an instructor for another organization that teaches anti-racist practices for teachers. And I thought, why do you reinvent the wheel? How can we bring this into Erlington and wrote a grant, an AEF grant, and pilot it? So we had about 23 teachers who were taking what we call the ideas course. Like I said, it's anti-racist and practices for educators. And in that course, you start to kind of, not kind of, but you start to understand and get an understanding of who you are, what's your race, your ethnicity, that you bring into your work, your traditions. And then we also looked at the professional practices and merging those two together. And so from that, we had other teachers that really wanted to take the course. And then Erlington Public Schools was instrumental in continuing that support. And we had over, we've had over 100 teachers take that first course. And we've had teachers take, there's, you know, there's 12 hour courses or seminar courses that we've had teachers take. So I started doing some of that work, doing a little bit of coaching with teachers who would come to me if they were reading a text in an English class about something about, you know, how to really start to kind of design guidelines around if the N word was in a book, you know, should we really be using that word? Should we be saying that word? So I found myself doing things like that with teachers. So that's how I started getting into this work. And like I said, I've been teaching an anti racist course for the over over the last 17 years. So this has been my passion. So I've been wanting to do this work. So when the opportunity came, I applied for the position and went through the process. I'm wondering how you are, you know, how you understand that role within the schools. Does it feel like it's almost overwhelming in terms of all the different directions you could get pulled in? Or do you, you know, are you coming in with a kind of clear sense of what's on your plate and where you're headed? You are correct. It's a very expansive role. You can go in different directions and avenues with this position. I feel as though Dr. Holman, who is the new superintendent of Arlington Public Schools has been instrumental in helping me to kind of streamline where we're starting for year one and where we're going in subsequent years and how that would align with the district and her goals. So I feel as though this year is a year of listening and assessing just to get gather information and data of where we are at the moment, what we have done and from there, where do we need to go? So for this year, I feel as though I do have a focus. And like I said, that focus is about assessment and doing interviews and listening tours with all stakeholders in Arlington. Great. And you were just mentioning all stakeholders in Arlington. And obviously, in a lot of ways, the principal stakeholders are certainly the principal actors within the context of Arlington Public Schools are students on the one hand and teachers and faculty and staff on the other hand. So how do you imagine and again, I understand it's a brand new job and you are going to be not inventing it but shaping it as you move as you move forward. But how do you imagine that balance playing out? Do you see yourself interacting more or less equally with students and staff and administration? Or is your primary focus going to be on one or the other? No, it's all stakeholders, just like you said. So listening tours are going to be with everyone from administration on down to our students. I think it's just beneficial that we hear everyone's voices and that includes bus drivers, that includes our nurses, that includes our cafeteria staff. So when I say Arlington Public Schools, I mean everyone that we need to hear from everyone in regards to do a thorough and equitable assessment of where Arlington Public Schools is at at the moment. And just out of curiosity, as you as you were mentioning, you know, the various like specific positions that would be encompassed under this all stakeholders category. And great to again remind us all of how many different people and how many different functions and positions are required to make the schools operate, you know, smoothly and efficiently and well. You know, but one of the things that we hear about all the time is in relation to schools is that it's all about the students. I certainly again felt that way myself as a teacher for many years and had that message from my own administration that in the end it really is we do everything we can to to elevate and to and to maximize the students experience and potential. Is that going to be is that kind of the the your North Star as well the guiding light here or the reason I ask is DEI obviously diversity, equity, inclusion, the the concepts, the principles, the lessons that need to be learned or can be learned through successful application of the principles apply to everybody. And you know, we have been on this earth a long time needed as much or perhaps more in a lot of students. So how how do you again, how does that idea that kind of undergirds everything in the schools which is it's all about the kids? How does that, how's that going to inform the work that you do? Well, when I think about it, James, I don't think any of us would have jobs if it wasn't for the students. So yes, or you know, if you were to do a map, the focal point, our students, right, because we are wanting to have global citizens that will be able to go out into the world and to grow out into a world that is being multicultural, multi lingual now, if we really look at the demographics, right. And so this is what we're trying to do. So yes, they will be our focal point. And from that focal point, you have other areas, you have curriculum. Like you said, we have people that come in and do this job every day. We have practices and we have policies that also encompass what happens with students. And so yes, it would be looking at all of that. So to answer your question, yes, the focal point is the students however there are prompts. I guess I want to say that are from that are shooting out from the students and shooting back into the students, right, so that goes in and out, because we're affecting their academic career. And you know, not just academically, but well-rounded holistic children, right, to be global citizens. So that just not doesn't mean, you know, there's not just one IQ of intelligence, there's emotional intelligence, we have several intelligence, right, whether you're their creativity. And so that's who is coming into Arlington Public Schools and we need to be ready to be able to to teach them what they need to know. I also want to say that I've always learned from my students. So learning goes both ways. And we have to create those avenues for all of us to be learning from each other. One of the things that I feel in doing this work that's really important is that you need to know who you are when you enter into this work. And so this has been really great for me, because when I enter into this work, I can tell you that I identify as an African American, Hispanic woman, you know, I'm heterosexual, I am a mother, I'm an educator. I bring different parts of myself into this work. You don't, you can't compartmentalize who you are. And sometimes I think people think they can, but they can't because from who you are, from your identity, sometimes you might have blind spots, sometimes you might react from a place of implicit or explicit, you know, biases that we all carry, and all of us carry privilege, right, in some shape, fashion or form. And we need to know what that is when we enter in this work and when we're engaging with students. And if I know who I am, then I can also be comfortable to then know wanting to learn who my students are, and also share with them who I am, right. And I think that's very important. I think identity is very important when we, when we were talking about this. So for me, you're right, the students are the focal point. I hope I answered your question. You absolutely did and went, and went far beyond that to provide really, and really quite excellent, I think synopsis, kind of really nice summary of that dynamism that happens in a school of students teaching their teachers, as well as learning from of the intersection of education happening on a number of levels, right, not just within the classroom and whatever book and tests you're taking, but how you interact with other people, including peers, but also the other adults in the community who may or may not be engaged directly in the process of teaching you, but nonetheless have something to offer and something, you know, to teach about, about, you know, getting on in the world. You did a, you know, again, that essential dynamism of this kind of coming together of all these different folks from different backgrounds in a shared enterprise, but where they each have different roles and just have different intersections with each other. It's quite a mix and it's very, very vibrant as those of us who have spent some time in the world of education understand. So I think, again, yes, you certainly answered the question and provided more beyond that. All right, let me, let me ask you as we kind of wrap up this conversation just, and I appreciate that there may not be any answer to this kind of question, but I'm curious about, you know, from what you know now in a couple of months in so far, and acknowledging that you've said this is all this first year, especially all about kind of taking in for you, you know, really and doing an assessment. Nonetheless, I'm going to ask what, you know, what kind of goals or aspirations might you have that are short term and then long term, and also what kind of maybe concerns or challenges have you identified in the short term and then in the longer term for the work that you have now undertaken? You're right, that is somewhat difficult to answer. And because I have to be honest, I started my position August 23rd. So I am a little bit of a month in. And so, you know, one of my goals and aspirations is that we, Arlington Public Schools have started this work. And that one of my aspirations is that to keep us on a journey of being a diverse, equitable, inclusive of organization that has embedded with it anti racism practices that we are dismantling white supremacy culture, and that we are really delving into what when we say equitable and equity really means for us. And I'm talking when I say us for Arlington Public Schools, and that I am working alongside and partnering and collaborating with not just the leadership, also with families and with the students and ensuring that that's the journey that we start, that we continue that start, but we continue on is one of my really aspirations for Arlington Public Schools. It's one of the reasons why I wanted to continue to do the work here. Challenges is that, you know, I can't have rose kind of glasses on and think that everybody is going to lean in and embrace where I believe Dr. Holman wants to take Arlington Public Schools when we talk about equity and inclusion. I think, you know, I do a analogy of we might have some captives, right? And then you have your tourists, and then you have your explorers. And I'm hoping that our tourists will help people who feel they might feel like they're captives. And I don't want to say that word like they're in prison, but feeling like I want to stay in my tradition. I want to stay where I'm at that we can help them gently move along to be tourists and then to be explorers. You know, I feel like I want to use another word than captives. I don't know if I want to use that word, but people who just feel as though why do we need to change? Like things are okay. Things are really working well. And that we can just help them to see that if we, you know, continue to evolve and to grow, you know, that's where we need to be. I think we need to learn from our history. So we won't repeat it. So that's one thing. And then we need to really take risks and really journey into the future in this work. So that's, that's what I see. And that's what my hope is. Yeah, I understand why you might be, you know, search for another term other than captives. But I also, I think you did a good job of explaining what you mean by that. And you know, they're, you know, good luck finding whatever that other term is, because I expect you're going to need to be explaining the concept, you know, more than just to us. Well, the other way I can explain it is I feel like I'm a cultivator in a garden. And so when you're in a garden and you're about to plant new seeds, you have to really dig the soil up and prepare the soil for the seeds. And so that's another way to look at it is that, you know, a way of cultivating the, the, the garden that we have already that will be ready to plant new seeds. And so some of that work is hard. And, you know, it, right, folks like the garden, the way just the way that it was. Clearly, I don't need to tell you, you've taken on a major task here. It's super important. I think and hope that you have you've, you've already described the support that you feel from the superintendent and the administration. I hope that that just seeps, you know, that you're feeling that from other sectors of the community, because I am quite confident that Arlington as a whole appreciates the importance of the work that you've taken on and as well as the potential difficulties. So hopefully you'll find a lot of willing partners and collaborators in the project that you're taking on here. Yeah, I do. I feel like I have a lot of support going forward in this new world. So thank you so much, James. Great. And just one little, you know, it's not exactly a plug because we haven't produced the programming yet. But, you know, I will say that one of your supporters active will be us at ACMI because you and I have spoken about potential series that you could develop and produce and host on ACMI that will explore these issues in even more profound ways. And we are, I can tell you this, we are excited to partner with you around that. And we look forward to the excellent content that is likely to be the result of that. Yeah, I'm really excited to start that journey with AMCI. That's great. It's going to be great. I have been speaking with our new DEI director for Arlington Public Schools and she is Margaret Creedle Thomas. She has been the MedCo director for eight years. So again, a familiar face in town and in the schools already, but in a new role. And we appreciate her taking the time to come in and talk to us about it. We appreciate you taking the time to join us as well. So for Talk of the Town and for Margaret and Thomas, I'm James Milan. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time.