 Our topic today is on blockchain-driven transformation. I'm Tayru Hassan, the director for Brightline Initiative, and for those of you who don't know, Brightline is a project management institute initiative dedicated to helping organizations bridge the gap between strategy design and strategy delivery. I'm joined today by Anthony Williams and Emil Anderson. Anthony is co-founder and president of a deep center. He is co-author of a groundbreaking bestseller, Wikonomics, how mass collaboration changed everything, and it sequels macroeconomics, new solutions for a connected planet. His work on technology and innovation has appeared in such publications as the Huffington Post, Hava Business Review, and the Global Mail. Emil is a consultant and practitioner in the field of business strategy and transformation and has been involved in over four global strategic projects. At the Brightline Initiative, Emil is responsible for several projects and support in professional research and capacity building. He has a strong interest in disruptive technologies and how organizations create and deliver value. Now back to our topic today. As you may know, distributed ledger technologies may have changed and enterprise forever. As disruptive technologies such as blockchain, AI and Internet of Things and even machine learning drive profound change in the social and economic landscape. Some enterprise leaders continually try to reinvent and transform how they conduct the core business, because things still is not an option. At the same time, while adoption of blockchain is still in the early phase, the technology has the potential to transform how we do business. In the discussion today, we look at how leaders can make change to people, processes to make adoption of blockchain a success. Now, how would we go about it? First, we'll have a short presentation by Anthony, where he will summarize the key findings of the research Brightline and the Blockchain Research Institute has done together. And then we will move to a more interactive part, where we'll be taking questions from you and then having a great discussion here. Anthony, whenever you are ready, the floor is yours. Well, thanks very much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. We've been working for many years together on these issues surrounding blockchain. So I thought it would be useful for those perhaps who have not been steeped in blockchain technology to have a little bit of an overview, first of all, about the fundamental technologies. And then we can talk after we've said a bit of a baseline about how those blockchain technologies are enabling some pretty profound changes, both at the enterprise level, but also at the entire sector and industry level as well. So that's the gist of the presentation. We'll start with slide number one, which is the Internet of Information. I think it's useful to kind of step back and almost compare and contrast the first generation of the Internet with the next generation of the Internet that we see unfolding today. So with the first generation, the Internet was really about the publication and distribution of information and documents. And when you're sending an email or a Word document, a PDF or a PowerPoint presentation to someone using the Internet, you're sending a copy of that document, not necessarily the original. And with this Internet of Information, we essentially had a printing press for information at our disposal and that works really well for digitized information. But what we've seen in the past decade is that increasingly complex services, processes, transactions are starting to move online. And that requires an entirely different type of Internet-based. And we're seeing the Internet itself begin to evolve with technologies like blockchain. So if we go to the second slide, what we're starting to see is what we describe as the Internet of Value. Essentially, when it comes to assets like money, stocks, bonds, loyalty points, intellectual property patents, music recording, even things like votes, sending a copy of those assets is not a good idea. It's okay for people to print a copy of a PowerPoint presentation, but you certainly don't want them to print money, for instance. So if I give you $100, it's important that I no longer possess $100 and that I can't send that same money to someone else. So this is something that cryptographers have, cryptographers sorry, have called the double payment problem. And it's something that blockchain is actually really good at solving. So if we go to the next slide about the middleman. So this is slide four in the PowerPoint presentation. How have we dealt with this double payment problem in the past? Well, for the most part, we've relied entirely on middlemen to do the intermediary sort of authentication of identities and establishing trust between two parties. And typical intermediaries include banks, governments, companies like Uber and Apple and so forth. These companies have been entrusted with maintaining the transaction records and essentially performing the business processes that underlying all of this virtual commerce. And you could argue that on some levels they do quite a good job of this, but there are some limitations and problems and those problems are becoming more and more evident today. So for instance, big banks and even governments rely on centralized servers and those centralized servers can be hacked and we've seen so many examples of this recently. The intermediaries and middlemen, they also tend to take a piece of the value for performing this service. So they take a cut of the transaction costs, if you will. And then in case like sending international remittances that transaction costs can be as much as 10% of the economic value of the transaction. The third problem is that increasingly these digital intermediaries, they capture our data and they undermine our privacy. And perhaps most problematic, we've seen digital intermediaries like Facebook actually hold a lot of power. So it's a pretty strong argument for disintermediating some of these intermediaries and that essentially is what blockchain can do. So if we go to the next slide on the trust protocol, we have seen with this new internet of value essentially that we have this new system, a distributed, highly secure ledger or database where all kinds of different assets from money to music can be stored, moved, exchanged, managed securely and privately without any powerful intermediaries at all. This is essentially what blockchain does. And although blockchain was invented, provide transaction and record keeping infrastructure for Bitcoin and that's often the association that many people make with blockchain is that it's the enabling infrastructure for Bitcoin, what we have found through our research is in fact that the applications for blockchain are a lot broader than that. They essentially have a whole span of different applications across industries and sectors that go well beyond finance. In essence, what we're seeing is that for the first time in human history, two parties anywhere in the world can extract, can transact, exchange value without any intermediaries and trust in this case with the blockchain infrastructure is established not by a powerful intermediary in the center of the transaction who is sort of intermediary, intermediating between two different parties but essentially the trust is established through online collaboration, cryptography and clever code and that's why we call blockchain essentially the trust protocol. So if we go to the next slide, we have a little sort of animation about how all of this works and it is a bit of a complex process but we can try to make it a little bit more simple to describe. So we essentially have a situation where in a blockchain based infrastructure money and other digital assets aren't stored in a central location. They're essentially distributed across this global ledger that uses the highest levels of cryptography to help record and secure individual transactions. So every transaction that is conducted on the blockchain or using blockchain from a purchase or a vote is actually essentially broadcast to the entire network. Now if we go to the next slide what we see is that around the world there's this massive community of contributors that are called miners. It's kind of like gold miners instead of young people. Essentially these are people who have massive computing power resources at their disposal which are estimated to be somewhere between 10 and 100 times larger than the computer resources at Google's disposal. So it's a massive worldwide network of people with massive computing power who essentially use their computing power to achieve consensus about what is the truth? Who paid for what? Who owns what? Who married whom? Who voted? Essentially securing the individual transactions on the blockchain network. Now if we go to the next sort of phase or slide of the animation what we see is that every few minutes like the heartbeat of a network all of these transactions conducted in that particular period are stored on an individual block and these miners do a lot of work. Essentially what they do is they compete to solve really tough mathematical problems and this creates a summary or a digest of what has occurred. And then the winning miners who solve these problems are rewarded with digital money like Bitcoin. So to kind of distill it all into one sentence by solving a mathematical problem they have successfully mined some Bitcoin and as a result added a new block to the blockchain ledger. Now if we go to the next slide you can see that essentially you can think about each block of information that records individual transactions as part of a bigger chain. Essentially each block is added to the ledger and must refer to the preceding block and so forth. And this creates a permanent time stamp sort of a capture of the exchanges of value in the network. It prevents people from altering the ledger in the future because if you wanted to hack an individual block say you wanted to try and spend some money twice or cast a vote twice in a blockchain enabled system you'd have to hack not just that block but the entire chain and to hack the chain you would need to defeat the highest levels of cryptography not just on one computer but on millions of individual computers simultaneously. So it's a very secure system for recording and storing information. So if we go to the next slide the question is if this can work for recording Bitcoin transactions on a blockchain why not other types of assets? And this is the heart of the research that we started to, we've been doing over the years with Brightline and the Blockchain Research Institute. So in the kind of the first wave of thinking about the applications of blockchain beyond Bitcoin we thought about the ability to record all kinds of different assets on a blockchain not just Bitcoin and economic transactions but things like land titles, business incorporations, patents and other assets. And what we find is that the blockchain can actually provide a pretty secure and swift infrastructure for enabling transactions around these kind of assets. So you could take land titles as an example. In countries like India the whole land title system the system of recording ownership of land was essentially based on paper-based file storage systems and there was a lot of concerns around corruption and insecure property rights which can cause major economic problems in countries in certain parts of the country. So what has been happening recently is they've been implementing blockchain-based systems and those systems essentially have the ability to store the entire permanent transactional history for a given property on the blockchain. This increases the data security. It protects the authenticity of the actual land records. It provides ultimately a better experience for the buyers and sellers of land because they can rely on a very secure infrastructure. They can be certain that the land that they're buying is indeed owned by the person they're buying it from from the seller. And this promotes greater confidence in the land administration process and in the broader government. So that is just one example of kind of using blockchain to register important assets. In a second example or another kind of extension of the applications of blockchain on the next slide we look at the ability to not just register or record assets but also to track the movement of assets through a supply chain. So one of the case studies that we looked at recently in publishing this paper with Brightline shortly it looks at the the mining of cobalt and the production of EV batteries in the automotive sector. So just a little bit of background we found that cobalt is a key component in lithium ion batteries and of course lithium ion batteries are the batteries that power electric vehicles and over the years concerns have been raised about cobalt in particular from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. And the Congo or the DRC is where about 70 to 80% of the world's cobalt can be fine so it's a critical source of cobalt but it also is a place where human rights are not universally respected and there's been a lot of problems reported. So then you have big companies like BMW, Volvo, Voltwag and so forth that rely on the cobalt from the Congo to produce the electric vehicles are really concerned about the human rights implications of this cobalt mining so they want the ability to be able to track the cobalt all the way from the mine site right through to the end production of the EV batteries. So how can they do that? Well they can use the blockchain to essentially provide a really secure immutable audit trail of that manufacturing extraction and manufacturing process all the way through. So they essentially record each production step on the blockchain. So how does this work? Well if we go to the next slide we can see a documentation of the Voltwag and supply chain and they've used blockchain to essentially record this whole complex process and they're using they're partnering with a UK based company called Circular and they've invented this whole series of tools and processes to resolve all of the chain challenges of tracing this cobalt production. So this actually includes digitizing the cobalt at the actual point of extraction at the mine site so at the very beginning of the process then they have a way of then tracking those bags of cobalt which are essentially they scan a QR code and then that gets registered onto the blockchain and then they trace it to the next step which is the foundry where the cobalt is processed and then after the cobalt it goes to the next step where they actually manufacture the cathodes and then the cathodes go to the next step where they manufacture the cathodes into the ED battery and then eventually they transfer to the final assembly process at the plant with Voltwag and so each step of that is recorded on the blockchain and it provides this immutable audit trail that companies at Voltwag can then point to consumers and say look we've tracked this whole process from ethical mine sites that aren't abusing human rights and we can prove that this is how the cobalt has been sort of transformed from its original raw material into this finished ED battery which goes into the electric vehicle at the end of the day so that's another really interesting application of blockchain if we go to the next slide a third area that we've seen an interesting application of blockchain is in the automation of project management and we've seen this even in traditionally quite risk-averse industries like construction which is not an area where you really immediately think of applications for blockchain but what we're finding is that there are companies that can tell away technologies which has a whole suite of blockchain-enabled project management solutions that are being used by some of North America's biggest construction and infrastructure companies so essentially what this blockchain-enabled system does is it makes all of the individual components of the construction project and registers it on a blockchain so you can scan a simple QR code and you can pull up information about building materials the serial numbers, the photos and specifications the whole supply chain history, the full quality documentation all the locations where the materials have been stored you can even register things like subcontractor agreements building inspection reports and so on and this whole digital infrastructure of recording all of this essential information about the construction process and all the materials and the agreements and contracts and so forth really helps to automate and speed up the whole project management process so the white paper that we put together kind of describes how this works in quite a bit more detail another interesting application is and this is on the next slide about streamlining industry workflows is we see applications where blockchain works not just for one individual company but for a whole collection of different organizations that may be working together to exchange knowledge and information across organizational boundaries and a great example of this is clinical trials so you can imagine in a clinical trial environment you've got this situation where you have highly sensitive information about people's medical history which has to be passed between researchers in the pharmaceutical labs you've got clinicians in the hospital you have patients who are participating in the trials and then ultimately have the regulators who evaluate the end results so all of these people have to be custodians at one point in the process of this highly secure, sensitive, personal medical data so companies like Sanofi and Pfizer have begun to implement blockchain based systems that again can provide a more secure infrastructure for storing this highly sensitive information and they feel that this could not only guard against the falsification of results but could also provide this higher level of security that would encourage patients hospital administrators and ultimately the regulators at the FDA and other similar organizations to feel a bit more confident about how this personal health data is being managed and that over time you could actually imagine a scenario where using a highly secure blockchain environment would allow more of this personal health data to be accumulated in a very secure and private way and that that then could be amenable to larger research efforts that would help tackle problems like cancer and diabetes so that's part of the promise of this kind of ability to streamline and manage highly secure information in a multi-stakeholder environment and I guess I wanted to wrap up this part of the presentation with a couple of observations around how you could get started exploring the potential to implement blockchain in your enterprise or organization so this is the next slide on rule number one about identifying a compelling business case I mean I think that's really the place to start with this is you need to think about what's the business rationale for this where are we going to deploy blockchain in a way that makes sense for our enterprise, for our organization and I just want to kind of remind you that the four areas that we point pointed to in the presentation so far so we've got on the first hand we've got projects where you've got digital records of importance that have to be carefully audited or protected and that includes things like digital identities land titles, contracts, transactions if these things have to be carefully managed and protected, blockchain could be a good solution for storing that kind of information the second application is not just courting the asset but tracking it through the supply chain or trying to assess the movement of an asset through a whole industry ecosystem or supply chain so that's the second application and we looked at the instance of Cobalt but there's lots of other examples of that kind of supply chain traceability with diamonds, everything food products and so forth have been tracked in this kind of fashion using a blockchain based infrastructure the third application we pointed to was in the construction industry where you've got the ability to automate the administration of projects by putting all of the materials and contracts and other processes on a blockchain based infrastructure you can enable a situation where you could actually process a payment to a contractor once the piece of work is being completed using a smart contract on the blockchain infrastructure and actually speed up and automate a lot of those processes that would otherwise be quite cumbersome to manage and then the fourth scenario that we pointed to was these large and complex projects where the success of the project depends on actually sending or securely managing information across a whole ecosystem of different participants so we used a clinical trial example as a use case there I think in each of these scenarios what we're seeing is that blockchain has enabled an organization or an industry to essentially address a very important pain point in their respective sector and that allows them to come with a business case for senior management that says blockchain can actually improve data security or it can improve efficiency or it can improve trust and transparency so we can point to real business benefits to blockchain adoption so that's the first and most important rule is to really carefully think through that use case and come up with a compelling business rationale for investment in blockchain the second rule is to think about and foster organizational agility so this is important because what we find in the adoption of blockchain regardless of the industry context or scenario that we're talking about it's often going to require not just changes in technology but changes in organizational design and strategy and so forth and it could fundamentally change how entities interact with and manage data and indeed interact with other organizations in their ecosystem so we take the automotive sector as an example if they're documenting their supply chain in granular detail well they're going to have to essentially get comfortable with the level of transparency around how they source critical minerals like cobalt and the same is true for food producers you know if they are tracking the supply of food products from around the world and all of the ingredients that go into packaged foods and so forth they have to get really comfortable with the implications of dealing with a much more transparent environment and what that means for the integrity of their processes and the quality of their manufacturing and so forth you know all of that kind of ups the anti on transparency and then the final slide is about redefining roles to increase competitive advantage so you know we found in the construction example for instance that if you start to automate this whole administrative overhead of materials management and contract management and other administrative duties you know for the first time managers on the actual construction site can spend a lot less time on paperwork and start to devote that time instead of problem solving to boosting productivity to helping the clients achieve better outcomes and so forth so it really you know allows you to take that kind of administrative layer out of the equation and focus on quality innovation and productivity so that's where the competitive advantage comes in so I'm going to pause there because I know that you know we've just kind of set a bit of a baseline for the for how blockchain works and some of the applications that we're seeing in a research and I think it's you know maybe now time for us to have a discussion about that and maybe field some questions thanks for for paying attention in that preliminary presentation thank you so much Tony for setting this stage here really appreciate it the future looks bright a lot of opportunities a lot of potentials for organization to transform themselves through blockchain so before we move on maybe Emil I mean you heard that Anthony talking here do you have anything you would like to add or share before we go to the Q&A portion yeah yeah absolutely and thank you Anthony for this wonderful presentation I think you know Brightline and Blockchain Research Institute would have a really fruitful and complimentary relationship throughout the years we published like various different types of aspects between strategy transformation in blockchain and the integration between those so it's exciting to have this transformation talk today finally and I just wanted to add some comments to what you said there you know some people I mean most people believe in blockchain as a technology that it will you know be very important in the future and some don't and I think the potential of blockchain is the ability to capture value is clear it helps organizations to streamline the processes and freeing talent from repetitive repetitive tasks as you talked about Anthony so and I think the doubts from organizations about using blockchain is slowly fading away so I think it's just a matter of time in the near future here before we see like that the use of blockchain is surpassing this threshold and then providing more use cases where organizations are not only using it but also experimenting and innovating with blockchain and after that I mean I hope that we will see an exponential growth so what I like about this years research with BRI is that we have been able to pinpoint a few elements that needs to be in place for this blockchain driven transformation as you talked about Anthony and in addition to identifying use cases of blockchain adoption and creating this business rationale for investing in blockchain I think it's also striking to think about how much of a people challenge it is to get going it doesn't matter what type of transformation is you see resistance everywhere when it comes to change and especially if you're changing the way you work so having this agile perspective into the organization before you take on blockchain can be crucial it can be proven to make it much much easier when you're adopting and using blockchain and also think something that we highlighted in the research is the criticality of educating senior executives in a broader sense about blockchain technology and how it can be adopted and it might happen in parallel when you create the business rationale in the case but at the end of the day it's up to the leaders and the decision makers to press the green button and allocate time and resources to projects like this so it's a critical part of the adoption of blockchain in an organization and the ecosystem around the organization and in previous research that we conducted a bright line we uncovered a few things related to leadership and found that leadership is a top area that most organizations should focus on and give space in order to ensure strategic transformation projects and a lot has to do with communication communicating a clear vision and goal and for leaders to personally remain committed to the task at hand and be authentic in the way they communicate this vision throughout the lines so I think it's very complimentary coming back to that between Brightline and BRI that we talk about these softer elements in implementing blockchain as it's also very, very important to the adoption and it's not only about the process and the technology itself but rather about the people also so this is the comment that I wanted to add to you Anthony there Thank you so much Emil of course it's a pleasure to write in your questions if you have any and I would be happy to answer there's one that is coming directly from Sven Volker and the question was on the project and blockchain usage is this a positive outlook that we can get rid of recording document on SharePoint and go into a next layer of professional collaboration storage which allows for traceability and shared usage so it's a rather long question but if I can just summarize it can we get rid of then the SharePoint document and move in a more collaborative environment and the storage environment with the project and blockchain usage that you mentioned Anthony Yeah I mean it's I think what we're seeing essentially is the blockchain infrastructure and the infrastructure and clinical trials medical research and so forth where you've got lots of different entities that have to share information and have to share information securely and often the ability to do that in an inter-organizational environment using a blockchain infrastructure is always going to be a better scenario than trying to email or send documents and have all kinds of issues it's really important that information is managed privately and securely or you can begin to with blockchain for instance utilize the smart contract functionality which allows you to automate certain processes so I've used the example for instance of a contractor completing a piece of work that automatically triggers a payment process using a smart contract on the blockchain infrastructure so there's lots of compelling reasons why you would want to consider moving out of the traditional information management paradigm which is based on individual siloed organizations and move into this more collaborative infrastructure environment where you can share the information or record it in a secure way using the blockchain infrastructure so yeah I think there is that certain possibility and it makes sense in these more complex environments where you've got lots of organizations that have to collaborate together excellent now maybe if I think about it and when we look at the horizon for blockchain of course there is one domain where people are seeing it or at least people are experiencing it or maybe familiar with it is the banking and the global financial market of course there is more and more recognition that the blockchain technology can be used and then payment can be let's say sent quickly, securely and cheaply without necessarily being needed for third party verification and so on one area that is kind of emerging or it's there as well that is on the horizon it is blockchain and identity management and the good example that we uncover in the paper was the Estonia digital ID card where we saw it as a significant advance on what used to be in government fairly siloed identity management you go in this place by asking for this information you go in the other place you need to put a different piece of ID so it's very siloed maybe an open question for you both what future do you see for blockchain when it comes to that sector identity management maybe starting with Antonin and then going to Emil yeah I think in government it's huge because of the very problem you pointed to I mean we've had this kind of the legacy of individual departments and agencies that are responsible for different functions in government essentially managing these independent siloed databases and every time you interact with a different government agency you have to go through the whole process of proving who you are your identity they all have different records maybe the records might even conflict with one another imagine a completely different scenario where all of your critical identity information in your interactions with government was recorded on a very highly secure blockchain and rather than the government being in charge of how that information is distributed or released you have personal controls and individual over that personal identity record and you can disclose certain aspects of that information as required to different government departments that require that information to process certain transactions whether that's getting healthcare services or social services or renewing a driver's license any kind of interaction you have with the public sector could be essentially secured and intermediated using this blockchain infrastructure that would give individual citizens much more control over their data and ultimately would be a lot more efficient for government as well because the governments could then do away with having to manage all of these individual implementations of different databases with redundant, essentially redundant information about citizens again also dealing with this problem of the lack of interoperability between these different systems as well so I think there's an enormous use case for these technologies in the public sector Estonia is certainly one example where they've had the capacity being a fairly small country to essentially to move ahead with putting this kind of digital infrastructure in place for identity management and for citizen services with government but we're starting to see some other examples of this pop up in countries around the world in slightly less comprehensive fashion you know more in kind of individual isolated examples like the land title examples that I pointed to but the potential no doubt is there for much broader application of this. Thank you, Emilio anything? Yeah, no I was just thinking about two points here and one that Anthony brought up and I think it's just decentralizing the amount of information and the way people can get these identity cards and so on it's very helpful for governments in order to free up talent and then use the resources for other things that they can take them forward and be more innovative in that sense and I think it aligns with going back to some research we've done in Brightline that kind of pinpoints that high performing organizations are not only more adaptable but they're also using leveraging standardized processes so it helps them to to become more transformative in the way they operate by using standardized processes or at least leaning back to them and having a more agile organization in the back and the second point was I was thinking about cyber security so and that's becoming more and more relevant today where essentially it's going to be impossible close to impossible to hack this kind of process if it's based on blockchain and I think governments as moving forward into a more digitized society then blockchain is the most secure option to do this so I think more and more governments will start applying the same type of structure. And there was actually one comment or one question regarding blockchain and democracy as well and I know with the ID management point with security where of course vote is your vote someone would not be able to hack it and so on and then the exact transparency that trust in the system and so on let's move to another question from Juan Miguel Robles and he's asking a quite relevant question here in the sense that he said in the experience that we have for companies how easy is it to use blockchain whether you are a small size or a large size company so that size matter that the first question and then he was asking also how it goes when it comes to let's say startup and so on any suggestion or answer that you would like to suggest is it a let's say technology that is made only for smaller or for larger or for both what do you see the spectrum Anthony. Yeah I mean a quick point I think increasingly you know in the past you know maybe five years ago you would say blockchain was more amenable to larger organizations that had more sophisticated IT departments and so forth I think increasingly that's less and less the case because we have new platforms emerging that make blockchain application development extremely user friendly and easier for smaller organizations to start up to manage so you've got things like the Cosmos ecosystem for instance which it's kind of like you could almost compare it to the way that people used to develop websites you used to have to hire a whole web development team to build a website now you've got all these amazingly simple applications where you can build a website in ten minutes well it's kind of increasingly becoming like that with blockchain where you've got this application infrastructure where you can start to build blockchain based applications fairly simple code and tools without having to get into the nitty gritty mechanics and extremely sophisticated cryptography and all that stuff it's essentially enabled as a service so yeah I think it's increasingly accessible to small organizations as well Excellent are you seeing anything different Emil or converging and we can go to the next one No I think Anthony answered it in full Excellent so I mean of course time is rushing rushing here and I have many questions we have we got 14 questions this has been the excitement but so let's take one more this one is coming from Javier and Javier is saying as we know there's a perception behind Bitcoin as an underground financial system for hackers or maybe drug dealers etc what do we do to implement a formal and trusted blockchain project I suspect because sometime you've seen the news this is being cracked and so on and supposed to be secure and so do you see anything in that space or how do we give a comfort that is required there Yeah I mean I admit that that has been an issue over the years we've often in so many different scenarios had to go to great lengths to try to decouple essentially the Bitcoin story from the blockchain story because I do think that Bitcoin over the years and other cryptocurrencies have no doubt been a powerful use case for blockchain technology but for various reasons there have been some issues with cryptocurrencies and your colleague has pointed to some of those concerns but I think that what we've tried to do through our research through all of the other applications in all of these different sectors many of which I've pointed to today in which you see very powerful benefits from deploying this technology to increase productivity and transparency and efficiency and collaboration and security and privacy where to me increasingly the more that we can tell that story and point to these use cases and show the benefits the more confidence we can instill in the senior management teams about the importance of this technology so I just think that we have to decouple those two stories a little bit and just be really laser focused on just trying to point out the positive use cases in the applications and I think also when you're looking at the enterprise applications there's the second point I would make is that you can build in increased levels of security that might be not available in a public blockchain environment you know so you can limit the amount of people who have access for instance you know which is these kind of more permissioned or managed blockchain ecosystems I think are a little bit different from the public blockchains that are used for cryptocurrency and if anything can be even more secure than the public blockchains so that's another consideration to build into this question as well. Excellent I mean Anthony thank you so much for this great insight there are more questions that the time allows us to answer so I mean for people who ask the question we take a look and see there's a way of addressing them offline but really really appreciate it and one thing that I will add is the research is available on the website so I mean people can get more information and even more excitement when you look at the ability to combine I mean blockchain internet of things and also if you have the quantum computing there are great things on the horizon really really appreciate the insight that you shared today