 Welcome to our awesome panel finding the right comms for your community. I have with me three super awesome people who manage different open source communities and who have used a lot of different tools. Yup, so why don't we'll just go here from my left if you can introduce yourself and say your favorite number because this is one of my favorite icebreaker questions. Okay, I'm Jocelyn Matthews and 42. Hey everyone, my name is Nia Macklin. My pronouns are they them theirs and I would say my favorite number is 1966 and that is because that was the year that the Black Panther Party had founded and started in Oakland, California. Little bit of history for you. I'm Dave Clements. My favorite number is either 080 or eight and you can talk to me afterward if you really care. Interesting. And I'm Sarah Kaiser. My pronouns are she they and my favorite number is pie. I'm a little bit irrational about this also because my username literally everywhere is crazy the number four pie 314. It was my first internet username as I guess and I just never left it so like pie. Awesome. So to make sure we have enough time for lots of stuff. I'm going to the first question for for y'all. Is kind of what platforms do you actually use for your communities and what types of communications happen on them because you may have even more than one that you kind of people bounce back and forth between so let's mix it up Dave you go first. I sat down here for a reason. You can't cheat off of everybody else's answers. Oh, come on. Okay. So I work with the condo community and we use matrix slash element for chat. So that's informal. We have lots of channels, lots of stuff going on. It can be a torrent if you subscribe to everything. We use discourse for Q&A. So that's longer form discussions longer form answers questions. So we encourage that we have a mailing list for announcements that we don't currently use but we will be setting that up or we will be starting to use that shortly. So those and we also have a website community website. So those are our main platforms. Yeah, so for my role at suborbital. Oh, sorry, I'm a developer advocate at a company called suborbital which does web assembly extensibility and adaptability. But we for our internal like community based on conversations we use a tool called threads, which I think is a pretty pretty early tool. It's a tool that prioritizes asynchronous communication, right, rather than focusing on synchronous especially that we have a very global team. And so we use that mainly for internal communications and then we also use discord to engage with our fellow developers as well as doing Q&A. And we have mailing lists, etc, as well to do more announcements, conversations. And also like if you just think about the social media platforms and like YouTube and Twitter and all those to communicate with folk in general as well. I'm Jocelyn Matthews she they and I'm here mainly in the guys of being an admin at the DevRel collective. And so we are using Slack. It's an older community. It's been around for over a decade, and I can dig into that a little bit later. Also professionally I've used discord discourse Facebook groups. Anybody remembers those. And things like mailing lists, you know, going way back. Yeah, I'm a community manager for a couple different open source groups and nonprofits and because a lot of them are pretty new we are almost entirely on discord. So I have set up a lot of discords and it was also kind of at the time as we were making those decisions. One of the few that had good kind of code of conduct gating stuff so a lot of the kind of security things and safety were important for our community. Cool. So question two, were you involved with choosing your current platforms and if so what aspects of your community were kind of factored into those decisions. And if not, what would be your top priorities if you got the opportunity for a clean slate. We all know it's like kind of hard to move people once they're already somewhere. But if you could like blanks, clean slate it. What would you want to do. We'll start with you, Natalie. Oh, sorry. I'm going to mix it up. I'm ready for it. All right. So number one again, thank you all so much for coming and thank you all so much for being here and bearing with me. I'm very with us. So I would say I did not have a say in the community platforms that we had chosen. So it was pretty much our director level. We're like, hey, we're going to try this out and we're like, hey, we're going to try this out. It's very much a small startup, 11 people. So we can be as flexible as we need for whatever size our community continues to grow to. But so because I was not in those particular conversations, what I specifically am looking for at all times is that we're able to have both moderation and safety within our community. I think, you know, that to me is are some of the most or some of the highest. Some of the most important priorities for just myself as both a developer advocate and an engineer and someone who wants to be in community right. And so thinking about what are the, what are the ways in which we communicate with each other. And how can we ensure that that communication is safe at all times. How can we foster communication between folk and ensure that folk are feeling both that they can that they can be their fullest self in this space, but also at all times just feel as safe as possible. So safety is a huge priority. Having a sense of community as well is really huge. So, you know, when dealing with engineers, a lot of a lot of the times as a developer advocate, you might feel well on the pre sales side of things you might feel like you're doing a lot of like external comms with folk and pushing content to other platforms, but not really, you know, creating a community of conversation there. And so, when choosing out platforms I'm thinking about like what ways can we both inherently foster that conversation organically I would say organically foster that conversation and communication piece. Whereas it might be difficult on other platforms. So, yeah, that'll be some things we prioritize. The question again was about legacy, basically. Yeah, did you have any kind of choice in the matter of what platforms you're using. Okay. And if you didn't, what would you what would be your considerations in picking stuff now kind of having experience with existing platforms. Okay. So just for context anyone who's not familiar with the devil collective. It is a volunteer run group for peers who are working professionals in the field of technical community or developer relations. So it is deliberately a community that is private, because a lot of us also might work for companies that are competitors. We just need to be able to talk to each other candidly without having that kind of like guard up so it's very much a community where what happens in the conversations happen in the community they stay in the community and they're not sightable so you can't say something like, Oh so and so in the devil collective told me this. And it just keeps everything nicer for everybody. So the main factor, as I said, because we're volunteer run was that it be free and the community is over a decade old. So at that time what was like cutting edge, you know, you're looking at slack. As to whether we would make that decision today. Migration carries a cost with it. And I've done migrations. It's, it's, it's not fun, even when you're getting paid for it. And none of us are getting paid. But one limitation of slack is that slack is made for people who are forced to speak to each other. I don't mean in a bad way, but you can't just wake up one morning and be like, you know what, I'm going to block my boss. I mean, it work groups don't don't function like that. So when you take that outside of a context where people are required to speak to each other, and it's built around that supposition moderation does become an issue. But luckily we haven't really had any disasters in that in that vein. That is good. Yeah. Dave, what you got. So I'm coming at it from the opposite angle of Jocelyn, we wanted something that was as open as possible. And that didn't require a login to see stuff we could link to particular discussions. So we picked matrix for that because it is open. You don't have to log in. Let's see. We also, we also picked on discourse for the same reasons. It's very easy to link to stuff. We want that to become a long-term resource for the community. We picked both of those because they're free. And we also valued history. So we wanted history. And we can get that with both of those. Yeah. So those were our main reasons. And yeah, I was the one involved in picking those and we can get to that later about why we were motivated to settle on those. Why were you? Well, that's the next question. And zero and eight remembered, no, sorry. Yeah, I think I kind of said a little bit before about why I did get to pick all of our kind of platforms. And I spent probably way too long making pros and cons lists. But yeah, we did end up on discord kind of for two main reasons. One, the moderation capabilities felt kind of at least at the time, which was like three years ago. At least the most advanced of the tools that we could find. It was something that a lot of the folks in the community were already familiar with because teaching a new platform, like it's already hard enough to get them to like click and want to continue to engage. So if you pick something that they're already perhaps have on their phone or are using, that was kind of what pushed us is like, yeah, it's not open source, but it's accessible. And the other was it was one place where we could have voice and video and text chats, which at the time, one of my personal biggest pet peeves is, oh, hey, what's the zoom link for this call? I didn't get it. Or is that the old one? And then your meeting starts 15 minutes late because you've been going back and forth to different zoom rooms or jitzy rooms or whatever. So it was just really convenient for like our community calls to be like, yep, there's the community call voice channel. That is where we will always be. There is no ambiguity and gave us also kind of a nice place for like co-work casual co-working or kind of debugging. Sessions, jams, whatever. Yeah. Okay, so the next question since we are going pretty, pretty quick here. No platform is perfect. What challenges have you run into with your current setup? Were there any catastrophes or things that did kind of force a migration? Okay, sorry. What could possibly go wrong in our community? So I think one of the challenges that we tend to run into at DevRel Collective, a lot of them just have to do with the fact that we're on the free tier. And so I think anybody who's on the free tier or slack is familiar with the rolling deletes. That is something that, you know, for example, when moderating, it can be kind of a bear to go back and reviews, like to see if someone's got a pattern of creating, you know, like non-optimal issues in the community because those things disappear. So that puts extra work on us for documentation. Probably you might be interested in some of the workflow stuff around that later if we have time for it. So yeah, mainly the rolling deletes are a problem. And just everything that has to do with the free tier. Many times there are things that we would like to do to modify or customize the community. And then we run into limits on customizations. I understand they're a business, but it's just, I don't want to pay. Well, it's hard when it's all volunteer, right? There isn't like an organization you can kind of appeal to. Yeah, and we don't want there to be. Like that's kind of key to what we're doing is that we don't, we're not looking for a sponsor. We're not looking to monetize. We're not looking to create a course that somebody's going to, like we literally just, that's a non-goal. Right. So we just sort of live with it. If we, going back to your previous question, if we were picking something today, Discord might be something that we would look at. But like I said, migration is a bear. Yeah. So yes, 100% no platform is perfect, but I am, I love me some discord. Discord is so lovely. It's accessible. It is free. So those are some huge benefits. And I'm not speaking specifically for suborbital, but there's lots of different organizations and communities that I'm in that have like about 40,000 engineers in there. Right. And just the moderation capabilities of discord, as well as the bosses you can create to, to plug into discord are, are incredible. And so when I'm juxtapositioning that against right, a platform like Slack, you can really see the, the limitations of Slack's capabilities when it comes to like the, just the breath of the types of just the thing, the types of things that you can do, right? With, with discord versus Slack. So we've run into things in Slack as well, where we're looking to create some Slack bots, for example, and that's just made more difficult when you think about like pricing and things like that. And just the capabilities are much more limited. So when we're thinking about scaling our organization than discord, I think has been the, the true win. Allowing us to have conversation and really build a really robust community in ways that, that Slack has not been able to provide for us so far. So, and to your question about like whether there've been some catastrophes, absolutely. Absolutely. I think if you're in this field and catastrophes haven't happened like, wow, that's beautiful. But luckily, well, not luckily, but yes. So when we're thinking about a catastrophe that happened, it happened in Slack for one of the communities that I'm a part of. And this was a case where the person who was in a more leadership position in the organization. This was a nonprofit technical organization. The person who was in leadership position, we were trying to rethink about what power looks like within this space and what democratizing power looks like could look like in that space, because we had felt like that particular person might have a bit too much power. And it'll be better to spread that out amongst the amongst the community as well. And there was a community decision that made that happen. So when we're thinking about like what as a Slack admin, like what different folk can see as a member of the Slack organization, right? What you can see, what you can't see. Sometimes you can see DMs and things like that when you're a part of the admin for a particular organization in Slack. And so that accessibility or that like clear, it could be, you know, could be privacy issues. And especially when there are issues between the community versus that particular person in power, as you would say. So we didn't necessarily figure out the best solution for that. But I would say that we worked around the platform that we were focused on in order to make sure that that was more democratized. That's awesome. So we were, yeah, I wouldn't say we were a catastrophe, but we weren't coherent. We had stuff on Google groups, we had stuff in Gitter, we had stuff on Slack. And there are different people in each of those three, and we wanted to bring all three of them together. So that was the long term plan. When Slack added its 90 day limit from the 10,000 message, that sped us up because we need that history. So, yeah, there wasn't a catastrophe per se, but that's what we have. So I'm really happy with discourse for Q&A. I have no complaints about discourse whatsoever. It's not open source. Okay, that's one complaint. But for Matrix and Element, it could be more polished. So it's not as nice as Slack or Discord in terms of polish. It works. You can do almost everything you want to do in a chat client. But the polish isn't there. And so it takes new users a while to figure out notifications. There's just a bunch of things that are more friction than with more mature platforms. We still think it's worth the trade-off because we get the openness, which was a core value of the project. So I would not change. One thing I want to ask this audience, we tried to get a Zulip person on the panel and we weren't able to do that. So if you have experience with Zulip, that would be great to hear about. I have the suspicion that maybe if I had to do it again, I would go with Zulip instead of Matrix, but I don't know that. Dave, what is Zulip, by the way? Zulip is a... Okay. Yeah, that's right. They are not paying me, by the way. So Zulip is a chat interface that forces threading. So it's like discourse that way, but it doesn't feel like discourse. It feels like a chat. Yeah, so it's a really fine line at walks, but it also has a learning curve. And so that's one reason not to adopt it is because people are used to things like discord and slack. Matrix is much more like discord and slack than it is like Zulip. But communities like Rust that have migrated to Zulip, they love it. Nobody loves Matrix. They like it and they use it. But the love isn't there, but for Zulip it's love. I'll add my answer and then we'll do open questions because I didn't want this to sound like an ad for discord, even though I love it a lot. The thing that we struggle with a lot is just the notification system and or configuration for the platform is awful. And again, not exactly a catastrophe, but we've had a lot. I've had to field a lot of complaints about people who didn't know how to manage. Like there are settings if you kind of dig into it and you can kind of customize what you get notified about. And there are now much nicer ways as an admin to adjust that. But I had people somehow getting permissions to at everyone everywhere. And then people were just rage quitting and I'm like, I'm sorry. We will triage this immediately. So yeah, even if we can nicely onboard them, if they're just being barraged with every notification for every chat, it's kind of awful. So yeah, I'm going to open it up to any sort of questions that you have for the panel. And I'm going to run around with the mic. So I think someone here had. Oh, okay, cool. Beautiful. For things like discord, what sort of automations do you use and what would you prioritize if you are starting with a community with no automation? Where would you start? I'm on Slack, unfortunately, but I'm going to port your ideas over. Go for it. I haven't used discord in a while, but oh, sorry. No, no, no, you're good. Let's see what sort of automations. Well, I think that there are capabilities for, oh, there's so much. Okay, now I'm remembering there's so much. So we, we create bots everywhere to do everything. So, for example, when a, when someone from the community has a particular question for like the core team, we've created a bot that will allow like put it into a queue that will then be ported over to, to the core teams, like, like, it'll just be a queue that we can then like go on and answer in detail, check off and keep it moving. So that's been really, really helpful to just organize community conversation. And then there's ways to, like, to create and facilitate feedback that way as well. We have bots that will, or like for automation in general, that will help us like facilitate when we're streaming to Twitch as well. So the partnership between there where we have bots that will like moderate the text that's going through the stream on Twitch. And then, which will allow, like, if you're, if you're, if you say, for example, one of a flagged word that we have, then we'll have a bot that'll like let that person know, hey, this is, you know, these are our community guidelines. These are the, the things that we've all abided by this particular, you know, frame or context or word does not abide by those community guidelines. Clear the frame from using it, et cetera. Oh, seems to have gone out. Thank you. And then, and if they then, you know, continue to use that particular word or phrase, whatever, then it will escalate it up to us, or you can do an automatic, like, like temporary band and then permanent band based on violating the COC guidelines, et cetera. So, yeah, lots of different things there. I can't. Wow. Well, I can. Okay. Okay. So matrix also supports a lot of plugins. It's an open system has open APIs. When we were migrating off of Slack, we built a bridge. And that's a credit to Slack too, because they allowed us to do that. So that bridge exists. It's out there. I can't remember the details. It was posted in one place went to the other as well and vice versa. And it worked 98% of the time. So that gave us some time to do the move and to let people know. I haven't explored it beyond that. But there is a huge ecosystem out there. Yeah, I can, I can talk a little bit. Like I said, I haven't used discord in a while. But now I just covered a bunch of really good stuff. So I can talk about automations on Slack. So, and we actually have another one of the admins who just joined in, in the audience too. So the workflow that we have for people joining the Slack is partially automated. So as I said before, we're not looking to throw open the gates to everybody in the world. And in fact, we're actively looking to keep some people out. So for example, we got a lot of tech recruiters who would love to join and go fishing. So we do have a type form. And the type form has a little bit of logic in it that will select some people out. So for example, it will ask what is your job title. And it's like, if you're, I don't know, Mr. Big Shot CEO slash founder slash slash slash. Then you will get a message that says perhaps this isn't the space for you and a link to some other resources that actually would be helpful for that situation. The type form goes to our GitHub. Like it creates a GitHub issue. So for each person who wants to join the group, GitHub issue is automatically created. And then we have a road on our team where we move through in batches each week and go and address the stack of whoever wants to be joining. We also have some automation around welcoming people to the group. So there's, you know, like a little welcome bot type situation. I have notes here. I'm not like just texting a friend. We have the tracking and GitHub. And then we also have something in our admin group, which is a bot that lets people know when they're on shift to be doing stuff. So I would say those are do we have any other main automations that you can think of off the top of your head? Those are the main ones. Dictator bot? Yeah, our friendly dictator bot. Anyway, I hope that's helpful. So as a recent arrival at DevRel, I highly recommend it. It's a great community. So thank you. I think there was a question. I was going to add in quick one that I really love on discord is there's events on discord. But there's some bots that allow you to connect like a Google calendar for like your community calls and stuff like that. It's very tedious to enter them in manually, but it'll basically sync those events that are on discord, especially if you're hosting them on discord. And then people can set up their own little reminders of when they want to show up for those things. So it's a nice way to reduce maintainer effort. I've maintained communities on slack for a long time and I'm really used to how that works and generally like the majority of people who joined the slack participate in a channel at some point. Now I'm responsible for a community on discord and I'm looking at the same stats and I'm only seeing like 10% of the people who joined like connect to the discord server ever say anything. And about half of the people who joined the server are brand new to discord as well. And I'm just wondering is that normal or is there something we should be doing different to increase our like new member activation. Can I can I ask a clarifying question, which is what is the what is the age bracket of the people joining your discord. I have no idea. This doesn't tell me that. I thought maybe you might have a finger on the poles there. They're all professional age so I would say like like 20s and 40s. The reason I ask is that I've been taking some classes like some college classes online like for various, you know, like language classes and stuff and the thing that I've noticed is that every class that I joined spontaneously. The students just spin up a discord like it's it's just an automatic thing that they do, which is not the case when I was in college previously. And so I'm wondering if you might find over time that that new to discord thing starts to sort itself out over time. Okay, what about the new members talking is it normal for a lot of people to join a server and just never talk. I have seen this happen. I've seen this happen quite a lot truly. Yeah, I think I wouldn't you know I don't I'm I don't have the sets for every discord but I would say that in the discourse that I've been a part of a majority of people will join the discord and just make sure that they have it as a resource right that they can tap in whenever they want to whenever they want to be active they have that so they're logged into the server. But they won't necessarily spend a lot of time engaging in that or if they don't have a call to engage or reason to engage or feel right. Feel a sense of community in that space then they won't do a lot of that engagement they'll just, you know, I say discord farm like have all the discord tabs open and just be able to you know tap in whenever they want. But then the question is like how do we start to like pull folk and engage them and that's a whole nother conversation we can have at any time. Question then too. Yeah, right. So I think the next question that I would ask is that it would be the why are they joining the discord so is it just that they had saw they're like oh like join our discord and they're like sure. And then they join it and then it's like all right I did it you asked me to do that. All right I'm going about my day right. Or is it more of a sense of like my community is in this discord right I want to be able to be in communication. I'm going to need help and the people who are in this discord can help me with my problems right either those be dead problem it could be anything. So, I think that going to the why are people actually taking the time to join the discord and understanding that fully can really help figure out like where, where, where we can tap folk in more and seeing right see getting a better understanding of that can help some of the some of the reasons why they might engage further and then even just asking asking folk can be really helpful. So why have you joined this discord and and then getting that feedback and then tailoring how y'all maneuver going forward can be really helpful as well. I could maybe potentially add something because I've looked at a lot of the analytics just like you have. We also for a lot of our discords. There were a lot of people new to discord because we had I mean we had a lot of the student contributors and stuff but we were working with academic groups that had like older professor and postdocs that were like what is this discord thing. So did do we actually even did do a couple like pseudo training things where I just said hop on a call with me you're going to walk through how do you get on a call stuff like that. But, you know, a couple years in now, I really seen that kind of shift and that percentage of people who joined so on discord you actually have the ability to get three months rolling analytics if you're the server owner. So that's honestly really like we use that a lot to kind of just keep track of because there's also like a partner status you can get if you have like enough active people. So I've also thought a lot about how do you get people engaged as a community manager. I honestly just like went around and directly tried to talk to people like I drop interesting news articles that encourage I had a team of moderators as well. So I kind of encourage them. Hey, you see something interesting on social media or whatever. This is a cool paper drop a link and that did really kind of help prompt. You know, it's kind of like the awkward thing at a party you got to put some icebreakers in there but between asking people to introduce themselves when they join. You know, they had a like a bot message that reminded them. Hey, what are you interested in. And with some of the new onboarding workflows and discord, you can actually ask people why are you here and they can select and then that can be basically information stored as a role for you as a maintainer to try and help, you know, then paying. Hey, I'm new to learning this technology. Let's ping the newbies or something like that. So we over here with a question. You actually already started talking about it. So I feel like it's a good time to ask it. There's a lot of research that indicates that communication can be an incredible signal for how things are going your project, whether or not that's amount of communication or sentiment or where people are having conversations. But I was just kind of curious about one, is this the practice you're doing sounds like you are already using some analytics where they're available. But I've also kind of run into issues where not all platforms give you analytics, you have to go back and add them later and then we've been concerned about adding a monitoring view. People don't like to be watched talking even though like they're already embedded analytics that are having a lot of these tools already. So I'm just kind of curious how you navigate that for platforms of your user coming with analytics or you have to add them later and whether or not you're using that to kind of monitor health in your communities. So discourse does come with a lot of analytics. And that's a feature. As far as matrix goes, I got far enough to determine that there's an API and if I wanted to write the code, I could do it. Okay. So matrix is not going to stand out on that one. I'm a big fan of discourse because it's just there. You don't have to do anything to get it. I find the sequel Explorer helps a lot with discourse to because you can start to customize in addition to the out of the box reports that it comes with. Is that a paid feature? I don't remember. Oh, very good. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. I think there's a plugin that you have to install that I don't remember paying for it. Yeah. I have looked at doing custom bots before and there are in the discord ecosystem bots that will do much more detailed breakdowns of, you know, however invasive you want to be. I have not used those kind of for that reason because I didn't really want to infringe on people. The discord analytics are really pretty high level and they anonymize if the or they omit if there's not a big enough sample size. But like I was seeing in our analytics a lot of the population on one of our servers was in India. And so we kind of looked at that and decided that maybe we should run some more of our community calls in those time zones or at least try to split it up more because most of our admin team was in Europe or North America. So we decided to try out shifting some of those and we got a lot more engagement surprise surprise. So just even some of those the baked in discord ones, they didn't seem too invasive. I definitely let people know like I posted as a mod. I'm like, Hey, look, discord collects these things. If you don't like it, I guess you have to leave. I'm not controlling discord. But just so you know, I'm looking at these. But they are only three months rolling. So I got to remember like every three months to download them. Yeah, anyway, yeah, no, that was that was a key issue that I have been trying to figure out like how to navigate. I think right like I'm I'm really big into thinking about like what does data privacy look like for folk right and protecting folks data as much as possible. Right. And if we are going to do data collection on folk and aggregation, etc. Right. What ways are we making sure that our community is informed about the data that we're collecting up front up front right so that we're having a clear conversation with folk. And also like not just saying here's the data we collect but here's the reasons why we think it's important to collect that data for our particular community. And how it's going to help inform XYZ going forward and whether folk agree or disagree with those decisions I think can really, really build up a community that's fostered on trust in really different ways. So yeah, I hear you on that 100%. Is there any other questions? So many more questions. All right, we are almost out of time so we can do maybe one or two more. We did want the questions. I was just wondering if anyone has experience with events on discord that use video, because we were going to hold a hackathon on there. But then we dropped the event and then all of a sudden 60 people signed up and we said, oh, we thought maybe able to get 20. So now we're rethinking the platform. So I guess if you have any experience with that, does it does it work well for that platform? Is it better just for smaller events? Just curious to hear your thoughts on that. I've run a hackathon on discord. The caveat there really quick is the all video to video channels right now are limited to 25 people, which kind of sucks. But they have stage channels where you can have so that's basically when we had kickoffs for the hackathon when we had like someone, we had like maintainers for the different open source projects give like a little five minute teaser pitch for their project and why you should come work with them. But the stage you can show video and stuff, but it's just a much more restricted set of people and then everyone else just kind of watches the stage. So that works for us. No, yeah, I was just going to say the same thing. The stage process has been has been wonderful. That's what we've used it primarily for is using their stage capabilities and we've had about a thousand people within the audience and it's worked perfectly. No issues. So but we haven't had the like, like if you would do a one on one conversation video conversation with someone, we have not tested that out on discord. Yeah, we ended up having like a bunch of breakout rooms where it was like, oh, you know, these students were working with this maintainer and they wanted a minute to go like workshop something. We just kind of had that set up for them. But yeah. Okay. And one other question real quick, I shouldn't run back. So we all have many communication tools on our on our laptops or phones. Have you have any experience with consolidation tools to help the end users that are participating in Slack and discord and signal and etc etc. So some platform support bridges. I mentioned that we used one for that. There are some communities that set those up permanently. We didn't want to do that. That's not really consolidating, but it is making sure everybody talks to everybody. So beyond that, I don't have experience. Yeah, I've done. I've done Slack to discourse. The problem was more about buying from the internal people at the company. So I didn't get to explore it as fully as maybe I would have under another circumstance. I seem to remember going from Slack to discord like you could basically back like say like I want the last 20 messages in this particular thread to show up in discord. And I found it to be a better use case for subgroups in the community. For example, if I had like, not exactly super users, but people were particularly interested in one particular feature, put them into a discourse discourse group that was like closed just for them. And then sort of start piping some of the Slack discussions through and it was a good way to bring product and engineering discussions into the Slack without like so much typing. But I don't I don't think that that gets all the way to what you're asking, which is a very good question. I was literally working on this on the train right here, because something that I'm working on revamping another community's discord right now and there's a nice kind of new forum feature on discord, which does kind of feel like a, I don't know, it seems pretty nice. But I want those to be publicly searchable. I don't want like the information of French, like casual conversation memes, like I don't really care if you can't find those on the web, like the whole point is it's supposed to be a real casual, approachable people place. But I was actually looking and started making a bot to connect discord forums to GitHub discussions so that there was a public, because it's the same sort of data model and so I will have to say it is honestly pretty easy to spin up a discord bot. I was just using the Python wrapper API and so I'll keep you updated. But yeah, I also struggle with this because I have literally every platform on everything and I hate it. This is why I really like major. I've been like hoping that there's an opportunity to use matrix because having the kind of open protocol and bridging would be amazing as opposed to making one to one connectors everywhere but say love you. When you invent it, please do. Yeah, please. I'm a master. You can you can find any of us on socials. Please let us know. Yeah. Well, thank you everybody for being, I think we're out of time, right? Yeah, we're over time. Dave, I'd like to thank Sam and back our AV person. And I'd also like to thank you, Sarah, because Sarah was not our original moderator. She jumped into the breach two days ago. Right. Because Sophia's travel budget was cut and she apologizes for not being here. Right. So thank you. Much love. This was super fun. These are conversations I've had so, so many times and I always love finding out what other people use and kind of like what were the those deciding factors. Hopefully this was useful to you all, whether you're looking to make a change or just trying to learn more about the ecosystem. Yeah, we'll be around. Thank you everybody for joining. Appreciate y'all. Thank you.