 Hey everybody, today we're debating whether or not dinosaurs existed and we are starting right now with Mark's opening statement. Thanks so much for being with us mark. The floor is all yours Thank you so much James. I'm I'll just share my screen here. Thank you so much Just tell me when that has popped up Let me just fit it to the screen and It is fit the floor is all yours Okay, so hello and greetings to everyone My name is Mark Reed and I'm here to debate for the affirmative for the existence of dinosaurs I'd like to thank James modern-day debate and thank you to my interlocker to Howard for showing up to what I feel is a clearly a One-sided debate, but I digress First I'm not a paleontologist and I have no credentials in that field But I want to run through why I believe dinosaurs existed and why there is overwhelming evidence to support dinosaurs existed Now scholarly descriptions of what would be now recognized as dinosaur bones first appeared in the late 17th century in England between 1850 and 1824 Reverend William Buckland Collected fossilized bones of Megalosaurus and became the first person to describe a non-avian dinosaur saw in a scientific journal in 1858 the first dinosaur was discovered in America in the town malpits in Haddonfield, New Jersey Today, there are thousands of paleontologists working in every continent and Uncovering new fossils and cataloging them and they create a very large database that keeps track of every single fossil Whether that's a trace fossil or a complete fossil I'll be outlined the evidence from three main categories. I'm doing fossilite bones footprints and tracks and egg remains now Please note. This is not all the evidence there is there's so much evidence. I cannot possibly cover it in one introduction So I'm just going to focus on these three so Howard can address these three So what makes the dinosaur a dinosaur? There are a diverse group of reptiles that appeared during the Triassic although the exact origin and timing of the evolution of dinosaurs is the subject For study of scientists, but there's absolutely no debate among any scientific field that they existed They all agree they did using fossil evidence paleontologists have identified over 900 the stick genre and over more than 1,000 different species of dinosaurs whose size very greatly the largest sauropod was 130 feet long and 59 feet tall Well, they could all be so be really small that could be 20 inches in length like a foot and a half So how do we tell these fossilized bones when not other animals well apart from the holes in the skull? The two holes behind the eye socket and pay attention to that The ankles but also the way their legs are and I really want to focus on that The the way their legs come directly down from their body very straight And I'll go and bit more into that later So how many fossils have we found in the world? There's a pattern approximately 11,000 Fossilized dinosaur specimens. There's currently about 3000 so-called full dinosaur specimens complete or near complete above 75 percent complete in Museums in the United States alone and many more all throughout the world Question that you may have is are the dinosaur fossils like this one a replica? Sometimes they take a cast and they do make replicas to display However, a large number are very real and very few They try to get at least replicas as possible. For instance, the Carnegie Museum of Natural History has more than 230 fossils on the display 75% of them are original fossils and the rest are replicas and the reason why they make replicas is because they may be very weak or They may be easily damaged So they they try not to put them out on display if there's a danger of them being damaged So here's a real one. This is Skippy onyx Now this one's I've included as it is the original fossil and you can actually see around here The intestines of the dinosaur has been fossilized Minerals have have over over incredible amounts of time and pressure replaced the tissue there and it's fossilized its intestines Now note the legs are straight down from the hips and the eye holes where we can clearly see this is a dinosaur This is the velociraptor from the Jurassic Park fame Although velociraptor was smaller than the movie that had raptors in it and in fact those raptors was dino such as a much larger Dera pod and not a velociraptor at all So when when you see the raptors in Jurassic Park, they're not raptors, which is hilarious I couldn't help throw this one and this is a carot archaeopteryx It's a dinosaur evolving into a bird You can see it still has the holes and it still has the straight legs I'm like a bird and a tail which a bird doesn't have tailbone. I should say it also has claws I know the topic is an evolution, but I'll move on but I do I do love this one. So I thought I'd throw it in I put this one here because this is this is an original not not a cast It's a triceratops on permanent display in the Melbourne Museum. It was found in 2014 in Montana By a farmer in in a field and shipped to Melbourne where it's now on permanent display. It's really cool These these are the cast that I'm talking about now The reason why they make casts of tyrannosaur skulls in particular is because they are pretty fragile. So That doesn't mean they're fake. They try to try to cast them exactly like the original But but they are very very open about when they are casting and why they are casting This is an amazing fossil. This is a tyrannosaur that's 90% complete The head in this picture is actually a cast. It's actually a cast made from the original It's it's it's body is all original But the head is too weak to mount You could you could always see this yourself if you go to Chicago Just note that it took the curators 30,000 man hours preparing the skeleton and and 20,000 man hours building the exhibit a ton of work went into this The museum paid 8.4 million dollars for this bad girl and yes, this is a female t-rex That's a lot of money for something that does not exist Note the hips and the way the legs go straight down from the hips. This is a dinosaur. It's pretty awesome This is the original skull. So it's photographed on black cloth so they can make it really stand out Note again the holes in the skull The interesting thing is this is fossils called Sue and it was named after this person Sue Hendrickson She found the the original fossil in 1990 and that's the original fossil there before it has been unearthed and excavated This is her Unearthing and finding the teeth took a photo with that This isn't some pay paid person faking this this this is a scientist genuinely happy at finding this fossil She's beaming in delight. This this is a real fossil that they they documented as they unearthed So this is the side of the back breaking and exhausting excavation the fossils These kind of sites they're dusty they're dirty they're hot and and it's painstaking work You can't afford to make a single mistake or you could damage the fossil and don't forget this fossil They bought for 8.4 million You may think well that thought that could be anything and I'm gonna I'm gonna discuss why it isn't how we know they're dinosaurs So when I said to look at the hips, I wanted to really focus on this so dinosaurs had straight hips That's the one in the center as well as mammals the one on the right is crocodilian well racisorchians That sort of are the ancestors of crocodiles and they have a different type. They don't have the socket there But this is reptiles over here. Notice the sprawling hips that they have They're clearly different and we can tell the difference here is a skeleton of a Be at a dragon a lizard and do notice the rear hips are sprawling they go out not down They go out. So do pay attention to that I'm gonna move on to my second category, which is eggs now This is an egg with a an embryo still contained within we found lots of these eggs all over the place this one was from China Creepy really creepy, but dinosaur This is a dinosaur nest with fossilized embryos most of them some of them have embryos still in it Again, I could show thousands of these pictures like I could show thousands of pictures of Skeleton fossils, but we would be here for days and days and days This is a tiny tiny tiny tiny sample now. How do we know it's not just a modern egg that looks like it? Well, there's a very noticeable difference. This is a diagram of contemporary eggs like said birds, etc See how there's a poor space every single segment and there's an external cuticle So there's sort of pause on every segment and external Layer to the egg now that compare that with a Dinosaur egg and what we have is a poor canal every few segments. This gives the egg a dimpled appearance It also has no outer layer and paleontologists can easily tell the difference between a dinosaur egg and a modern contemporary egg from this So this is this is a footprint in the Gobi desert. I Actually included this to show the size of the footprint. This is from a titanosaur massive thing Look at the paleontologists that found it and how proud and happy he is So when you speak to paleontologists, they nerd out over dinosaurs and and they can talk your ears off about them And and you know, I want to sort of say is this guy lying to you. Look how happy he is. What a guy I mean, he's just beaming These move on to tracks actually these are traction Bolivia. I've included them because they filled with dark sediment and they're really striking You can clearly see the tracks in contact with the world rock. They're fantastic These people in the background of people taking a tour and you can sign up and go for a tour see dinosaur footprints They're in most, you know areas of the world not all because we don't have fossils in all areas of the world But they're there's some in my home state up north in broom, which are fantastic So this is Ploxy River in Texas or Tejas and a big shout out to all the Texans out there. I Just want to mention something about some of the claims made about this and some of the sort of claims made about dinosaur fossilized tracks This is another dinosaur track in Ploxy River and it's been claimed. Oh, this is a human track. It's not real It's a fake. It's hoax and all these kind of things. What's happened is these these points here the the talons and the toes have collapsed and they've just collapsed inwards and Making it seem like the foot smaller than it actually is. There's actually still toes there, but people mistakenly think they're human that they're not This is Mill Canyon. This is where they put up a walkway to go and view the prints and actually interestingly enough when they put up the walkway They damaged a very small portion of these tracks and the paleontologists and other scientific communities were livid. They had damaged this It's open to anyone. So you can go and have, you know, look at the viewing platform and see all the tracks of the dinosaurs from a slightly elevated position. It's kind of a really bad cover up that that constructs a viewing platform so people can actively go and look at the tracks and freely examine them. I don't know why if they didn't exist that they're you know helping people see the things that don't exist. So there is so much more evidence I can possibly put into than I can possibly possibly put into one presentation or 100 presentations. I think I could spend days and days and days and on stop and I couldn't fit all the evidence in Here is just a small sample of the things that I'd like how to address. I'm glad to be here, but I have no idea why this is even debatable. I think dinosaurs are amazing. And just for the record, my favorite is the Ankylosaurus, which was a squat sauropod like a small tank. And these are these are more evidence that you can sort of I could include if I wanted to, but I didn't want to sort of give Howard tons and tons and tons. Thank you for listening and leave your favorite dinosaur in the comments. I would love to know what you think. And thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you very much for that opening statement, Mark Reed. We're going to kick it over to Howard's opening statement as well. I want to say folks, if you haven't been here before at modern day debate, we are a neutral channel hosting debates on science, religion and politics. We hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you are from. And don't forget to hit that subscribe button as we have many more juicy debates coming up, such as whether or not Islam is dangerous this Friday. You don't want to miss it. That's pictured at the bottom right of your screen. And with that, thank you very much. Howard, the floor is all yours for your opening statement. Thank you, James. Let's just see if I can share the screen. Can everybody see that? They can. Let me just fit it to the screen because it's a little bit zoomed in and then we should be good. So they can now see it to the best of their ability. I think you'll have to scroll for them to see more, but that's I'm able to show everything that shows on my side. Is it better if I leave it like that? Yeah, it should be okay. It's full screen, yeah? Yes. Awesome. Okay. So we often believe what we are shown without it ever being demonstrated proven by the French doctor that put a piece of salami and everyone thought it was a planet. Here's a skeleton of a mouse without a proportion it can fool us. And yeah, our understanding of dinosaurs, even the official narrative says this role, we see them with scales, yet we're told that they might have had feathers or even hair. So it's quite confusing how we're shown one thing but told others were they evolving into fish, bird or rodent. And yeah, most of the skeletons have just been partial findings over 165 million years, you'd expect there to be a lot more complete skeletons like he says there's only 3000 so called complete skeletons and they're about 75% claimed. So there's not many skeletons found for 165 million years. And the first ever fossil that was mistaken for a dinosaur was from Robert Plott who originally thought it was from a giant, yet he was compromised. And the original dinosaur word came from a museum owner. It's been said that a lot of them have been covered up before they were discovered again, maybe that's because they were really giant bones. Or maybe it's because they were fake in the first place because there's a lot of money behind it. It looks like it could be a cover up for giants. As we've got depictions of giants all over the world. It could even be a cover up for dragons. We see that there was scientific American published articles about giants and considering how long humans have supposedly been on this earth, we find a lot of skeletons which have all disappeared. Funny enough, yet the skeletons found by Charles Marsh and Edward Drinker during the bone wars are also up for debate. Because they supposedly found 142 species, yet we know a Hakel's drawings being a scam. We also know that the bird dinosaur missing limb turned out to be a scam. Which is strange that Mark used it in his presentation. And also this article from National Geographic got pulled because it was turned out to be a scam. So maybe the bone wars were taking skulls and bones from other animals and giants and calling them dinosaur bones because it fitted the narrative that they wanted to promote. We can see that there's still giant snakes around the world today. So there seems to be a lot of evidence that things used to be bigger in the past. One of the articles that I screen shot was saying that in a petrified piece of amber, they saw that there used to be more oxygen in the atmosphere, which could explain why things were bigger before, not just giant humans, but also giant creatures. And we see the Fibonacci sequence, the golden ratio, fee, the spiral throughout nature. This seems to be a fingerprint or a signature of the intelligent designer, yet the strange thing is, even though we see this throughout nature in all plants, fish and animal life, I don't think we see it in the dinosaur skeletons. I have a feeling that they're out of proportion with the Fibonacci rate of construction that we see throughout all the rest of nature. So it seems a little bit inconsistent as the mathematics is there in our bones. It's in the plants. It's in our food. It's everywhere. Some people call it sacred geometry. So it shouldn't be ignored that this mathematics doesn't seem to appear in the dinosaur bones, but it does appear in the giants and also the giant creatures, which we see articles and photograph evidence. We've still got constructions today that look like they were built for bigger people, as the doors are very difficult to open and close, as well as the depictions from Egypt and all around the world. We also see stone formations that look like they were set up by giants, as it doesn't make sense with the water erosion or the wind or the mechanical erosion that we know of. We also see mountains that seem to be petrified titans bigger than we can even fathom and we have up to 50 different correlations with the anatomy and histology of an elephant, including tunnels where you'd expect an ear canal and also tunnels where you'd expect sinuses so I've been in this cave myself and I've seen a majority of these 50 correlations to the anatomy of an elephant so I also don't believe that it could just be random erosion that's caused these tunnels to go in all directions that match up perfectly with what we find when we look at fishes in the bone of a skull. Sometimes the iron ore still looks meaty colours and it's always caked onto the top and on the sides of channels in rock formations that have never had flow caused the erosion so sometimes it could be a pareidolia but when there's many many occasions and also when the details are so perfectly situated and to scale we even see the scale skin. It doesn't seem like this is all coincidence or random erosion it looks like we're looking at an ancient past dolphin island of Italy for example it just seems too too accurate so we can see things on the top are mountains including the mountains themselves we can see things underwater and on the top of the tallest mountains we still find remnants of what was probably a worldwide flood because tectonic plates don't really make sense for all these different shapes mountains that we see especially when they have 50 correlations with the anatomy of an elephant also we see temples that have been still still being excavated star fortresses on the top of mountains that need excavating for mud as well as all the other underwater cities around the world so it looks like we might be wrong about a lot of things and if we're not if you're not sold on the mountains go and look at pebbles because it looks like pebbles also justify that was a worldwide flood that might have got rid of all these dragons and giants of the past because when we look at the pebbles they seem to have a skin and when you fracture them they have a darker interior so it tells us that these pieces are whole intact which matches what organs have a fascia a skin around them and a serous liquid we don't find any transitional stones we only find the pebbles on the coastline where we have multiple water direction we have them in riverbeds where the water flows one way or we find them in the mud in the soil when digging which has got no direction of flow apart you could say down we always find the heart shaped stones have got a dent at the top or in discoloration or even a hole so it comes into question the model that we have for the world and why would this be hidden from us well maybe these dinosaurs are to soften us up to the reptilian creatures that might still exist in higher dimensions or at least in the past they were depicted and it seems like a lot of brands and also religious organizations still pay homage to the reptilian creatures as they build their constructions statues and their logos to suit them so it seems like there's a lot of respect paid to these different reptilian creatures whether they're alive or not which could justify why dinosaurs has been promoted to take us away from the truth about this creation when we look at the memorial in United Nations Security Council we can also see that there's snakes depicted as being in charge of the human race 30 more seconds maybe because thank you maybe because they're known for being hypnotic and having very persuasive ways with humans so it's not necessarily a physical thing but there's a lot of depictions since Napoleon's day of reptilians wanting to eat humans and children as if like wanting to stay alive because they're blue-blooded and we see depictions of dragons and reptiles in the royal family the genealogy shows the understanding from Vlad the Impala so I do have a bit of a stake even from Charles admits that he was related to what we know Count Dracula so maybe this is why we see a lot of satanic rituals in the higher elite and why we see that the most renowned Freemasons also praised Lucifer as the god of this world so maybe there is more to it if you're in the secret club maybe we'll never know but there's definitely some kind of cover up going on with that thank you very much for that opening statement Howard we are going to kick it into open discussion so with that folks if you happen to have any questions feel free to fire them into the old live chat if you tag me with at modern a debate that's one way as well as if you want to submit a question via super chat you can and those get bumped to the top of the list with that also want to say folks our guests are linked in the description if you'd like to hear more of the views from Howard or Mark you certainly can by clicking on their links below and last but not least don't forget to as I mentioned hit that subscribe button we have a big juicy debate coming up whether or not Islam is harmful to the world that's coming up this Saturday you or this Friday you don't want to miss it it's going to be a big one so hit that subscribe button and with that thanks very much gentlemen the floor is all yours thank you James um Howard Howard where do I start with this mate um for a start you missed half the time you missed the topic where okay so I want to make clear we're not like debating stones or conspiracies about Prince Charles or any of the other stuff that you sort of touched on or tunnels or or elephants um we're discussing dinosaurs okay so let's let's keep to the topic and instead of going off topic let's stay on topic with dinosaurs now one of the things I want to point out was that I just wanted to clarify that and then ask you a question so I'll just finish if you don't mind and then you can you can go for it okay you can you can sort of argue with that if you'd like um so you brought two scams one was the Archer Raptor which I didn't mention an Archer Raptor that was a very well known scam from China um the what I said was Archaeopteryx and that's a different fossil the actual Archer Raptor was found out by scientists and it turned out to be a bird from a much later period it was a scientist that found that out and debunked that um and also you brought up uh the um what was it the uh I do apologize um the card of giant you had a picture of it and that's a very well known fake um basically it was uh Hull who basically uh ordered a gypsum statue to be carved and he did it so religious people would buy into anything that fit the Bible he said later that's a very well known scam so my question is why are scientists debunking these things if they want to make it seem like these things exist okay so there's different scientists from different organizations that have different agendas and uh want to promote different things but it seems like the majority um of the organizations like I showed with the united nations and stuff they're very full promoting evolution and they they'll go at all angles to debunk anything to do with creation this isn't about evolution let's stick to dinosaurs I am I'm just saying that they're going out of their way to dis to try and prove evolution and dinosaurs is a big factor of that they're using dinosaurs to add millions and millions of years to this story of creation yet my question was quite good it was that if there's dinosaurs lived for over a hundred million years on earth why do we find so few uh dinosaur skeletons you said yourself only 11 let me just finish only 11 thousand have claimed to be found and only 3 000 are supposed to complete but when you look at the fine print it says 75 percent so we don't okay so let me let me answer let me let me answer how you've asked me a question directly let me answer so um fossils are created under exceptionally rare um circumstances um they're only created when um the the um it's buried under a sedimentary layer and exerted a whole lot of pressure on it it's got to be out of erosion so it doesn't get you know just eroded away there it's a very very very rare process to find a fossil very very rare for something to be fossilized now when you said 3 000 you didn't mention the 3 000 in the u.s there's more thousands in the rest of the world and in actual fact considering how rare fossilization is that's a pretty good number that's pretty good and they're centered around places with um low um erosion factor um and places where mud and other sediment can sort of you know cover it so it's not being eroded away um you said that some scientists are trying to debunk and other scientists aren't trying to debunk so my question to you is why are the scientists trying to debunk not debunking the dinosaurs that you claim are fake why are they just picking on some that if you claim all of them are fake why are these scientists that are trying to debunk fakes not debunking the dinosaurs I didn't say that they're all fake I said that can I um I said that they could be dinosaur bones they could be giant bones that have been misrepresented as uh dinosaurs so dragons and giants as we see depicted as we have constructions for them or still standing as we have little literary um loads of accounts like Marco Polo the bible the Koran the epic of Gilgamesh and loads of myths all around the world there's over 500 myths that talk about a worldwide flood um which could explain why some of the dragon and giant skeletons got fossilized and why most of the creatures of the world got petrified like all the pebbles that I was showing you on the beach and in the dry riverbeds and even rivers and also in in the mud because it looks like if there was a worldwide flood there would have been mud floods hence why the star forts and the temples in Egypt and when we're not debating the flood but it's all part of a big cover-up literally if there was a flood that proves that there was a wipeout of all the creatures if all the creatures are not we're not debating the flood we're not debating the flood stick to the topic and we're not debating the flood please stop interrupting me and you'll get my point because I'll wrap it up stay on topic then I am saying I want to do is Howard uh I normally well you can tell me if I'm being overly charitable I want to change the subject really quick just because it's something that came up during the opening a lot of people in the live chat were wondering how it's relevant the way I under this I am changing gears from the topic you guys were on just because I don't want to sputter out too much or spin on that one that's too much is in particular the pebbles that you had shown I think that some and I think mark as well in the opening he mentioned this isn't about pebbles and things like that did I understand right maybe I'm being overly charitable did you were you trying to say that the somewhat triangle shaped pebbles were I think you were trying to say that instead of them being dinosaur teeth fossils are you saying that they were just pebbles shaped by the flow of the water that they always occur in a certain direction and that that they're just pebbles and they're not dinosaur teeth or am I being overly charitable and was mark right that you were bringing up something about pebbles that uh isn't related pebbles are related pebbles are appear to be petrified organs all over the world they're there so this would justify and support the biblical the Koran and all of the 500 myths that say there was a what worldwide flood and the worldwide flood as we see evidence and we can read evidence everywhere um justifies that there was giants and dragons that were all wiped out in one instance one thing is why some fossilized some are petrified and there's all different layers of of earth but so you weren't saying there were teeth but you were saying that what look like fossil organs I didn't even know that there were like claim to have like fossilized like a pancreas like a dinosaur pancreas or something I I didn't even know that was like anyone claim that we have fossilized organs like a heart or a pancreas like uh you're saying that but if I understand right just to be sure I understand right and correct me if I'm wrong and sorry mark for jumping in on you like no that's okay that's all right I just like I find this I always kind of find these topics especially interesting because they're kind of novel to say the least well let me explain why I'm sort of objecting to that it's because even if there was a worldwide flood I can grant a worldwide flood I can say hey it all happened I don't believe that but I could grant all of that it's irrelevant because the question is did dinosaurs exist whether there is a flood or not a flood has no bearing on whether the dinosaurs did exist it has absolutely no bearing on it well you can disagree all you want but it has no bearing on it you just said no no no let me finish let me finish you just said they could be dinosaur bones they could be giant bones they could be dragons so how do you tell the difference between these bones how do you how would go out and tell the difference what's your methodology okay I'll try and make my point now see if I can get it out without interrupting me mark that it's dead simple if there was a worldwide flood and everything on the earth got covered in water and petrified due to electricity or the minerals or temperatures or whatever it was that caused everything to petrify that would explain why we find fossils in different layers of the earth because they would go into densities and also like pyroclastic flows things layer out with the speed that they're moving so a worldwide flood would support all the biblical narratives that there was giants and dragons and bigger creatures and bigger everything and it would go against the idea that there was dinosaurs millions and millions of years ago see the only difference between dinosaurs and dragons is dragons were a few thousand years ago dinosaurs were hundreds of millions of years ago so and the idea is that the dinosaur bones are made out of a few findings and the whole reconstruction is an artist's impression whereas we have depictions of dragons we have stories of dragons as well as giants and as well as the constructions so I'm saying that there's more evidence to go with the biblical the Quran and the myths that say there was giants there was dragons and that there was a worldwide flood and we can see evidence on the beaches on the riverbeds and even when you're digging pebbles appear to be petrified organs especially the heart shaped ones because they have up to 20 correlations with the anatomy of a heart so all of this evidence says that something happened thousand few thousand years ago who knows but this then stacks up against the dinosaurs that you guys are saying that these fossils are from hundreds of millions of years ago where if there was a worldwide flood could have been one two three four five six seven thousand years ago so it kind of debunks what you're claiming to be true if we have stronger evidence that can be found on the coastline on the riverbeds and it digging in your garden so yeah pebbles are a great great counter evidence for dinosaurs no pebbles are not any kind of counter evidence for dinosaurs and I actually asked you a question that you totally dodged whatsoever you said it could be dinosaur bones could be giant bones could be dragons my ask was what is the methodology for telling the difference between them but I want to address what I didn't dodge it I actually know Howard let me finish yeah I want to address everything you said you made a number of points I will address them Howard I actually wrote it down you can rewind the tape um so you say it's dead simple it's a worldwide flood but dragons are exactly the same as dinosaurs just they're in a different time period now don't forget this debate is not when the dinosaur lived this debate is not how old the dinosaur lives this debate isn't isn't when dinosaurs died or when dragons died it's did dinosaurs exist so if your contention is that you are just calling dinosaurs dragons regardless of the time frame that they're in then you are actually conceding that dinosaurs lived and you call them dragons but I would like you to answer my first question as well since you didn't answer that I did I did answer your first question stop lying you didn't yeah I did no you did I answered it last what's your methodology for determining the difference between dinosaur bones the methodology is the dating process if they're millions of years old then they're dinosaurs if they're not millions of years old then they're larger creatures before the flood there was higher oxygen levels supposedly and humans lizards birds fish were all bigger and that seems to be true because we still find big snakes we still find big people and we have skeletons some of them might have been faked I get it but if you can if you can point out that some of the giant skeletons were fake and you admit that some of the dinosaur transition or the dinosaur bones were fake then you're halfway there so it could be they're all fake or all misunderstandings because we've all been programmed with a narrative that says they're millions of years old so that was your first question and the second point is the time what was your second question I said what's the difference between and not age because that's not part of the debate if if you're calling dinosaurs dragons that that instead lived ages ago but they're exactly the same and just lived more recently then you're just basically saying that they're dinosaurs with a different name you're just calling dinosaurs dragons and saying hey they lived later than what you say no I feel they did exist I have answered this just and also before time is everything because I've said what the bibles and everyone else in the myth say that everything was bigger before the flood everything was bigger so bigger and there was also titans and giants that needed to be killed off because they were supposedly from the fallen angels and stuff so I'm going off this text evidence the depictions we see drawn constructions that we still see standing and also the skeletons that have all gone missing and then the pebbles that we can all find ourselves with all different scales of the heart heart shaped stones that have the 20 correlations with a heart from this little and very large so it looks like there's lots of evidence that things were larger so the whole point is you're saying that there's no difference between dragons and dinosaurs I'm saying that anything that was supposedly millions of years ago we would call dinosaurs where if it was only a few thousand years ago we wouldn't call them dinosaurs that's the only difference between dinosaurs and dragons and I've not just said that they're dragons I've said all types of creatures not just dragons not just reptilian creatures all creatures supposedly were a lot bigger okay so in some stone formations and as we've seen in some fossils and skeletons that were supposedly fake yeah so so your problem is that you're saying that and the first thing sort of said it oh we found some fake giants some fake dinosaurs the problem is that we've the experts the scientists that actually analyze them have found some a very very few fake dinosaurs and every single giant has been fake there's no real giants out there that somebody has said hey yes that's a giant from ages ago it's only and see the thing is when I ask you about your methodology and how you tell one thing from another one bone from another that you're claiming you don't actually answer it what you say is this is this is this bone this is this this is this I'm not asking you what you think these things are I'm asking you how you go about putting in a procedure to tell the difference from one to another because as far as I can tell and you know this is just listening to you it sounds like you look at them and that allows you to tell the difference no it seems like you're using reverse psychology I'm not a paleontologist I said neither am I great but I said that what they do and they've admitted this they find a few bones it could be as little as two or three and then I'll have some artists come along and draw up what they think would have been the rest of the dinosaur which is why you said yourself from the 11,000 found dinosaurs bone sets only 3,000 of them they can claim to be in the US mostly complete Howard when I google in the US 11,000 worldwide 3,000 in the US alone I thought it was worldwide 11,000 no no 3,000 just in the US out of those 11,000 3,000 just in more thousands worldwide that are complete 75 percent but I mean it's weird that you say that no no no no I want to address that thing that they find bones and then they just draw a diagram did you watch my presentation where it had Sue the the big Tyrannosaurus 90 percent complete where they painstakingly dug it out recreated it and then put it in a museum how is that finding a few bones which is a total mischaracterization then then drawing a diagram and and and then and then that's it how was that possibly what you got from what I presented because I'm talking about generalization you're talking about the best example you have the best example and even then we don't know what was planted we don't know what's replicas we aren't allowed to inspect the bones we just have to take their word for it so it's second hand information again that we're told to believe in and it's always paleontologists that find the dinosaur bones and only the museum's own inspectors can see the bones and we're just told that we're supposed to look at replicas and believe everything they've said and believe that they found 90 percent when we know that there's over 10 million for that sue skeleton so there's a lot of financial motive for people to lie Howard it's weird that you sit there and go we've got second hand evidence so we can't believe it because I don't believe you've gone out and found giant skeletons and dragon skeletons and all of these other things that you claim to have found so you're relying on second hand evidence as well so your idea of your methodology for determining these bones is you look at it go to what you think is happening in the world assume what you think is happening in the world apply that to what you're looking at and then basically believe that that's a terrible methodology for figuring out what is what we're talking about paleontologists people that spent four years at uni doing their undergraduate degree maybe two year more years for a master if you're going for a doctorate that's another year from that point you're just somebody on site who's just gotten their degree or their doctorate and that's writing a dissertation you may spend decades becoming an expert in the field of paleontology now what you're doing is you're going up to them and you're saying hey I know that you spent 30 years doing this but I think you don't know what you're talking about I see stones and I know that what you're saying isn't true because I see stone stones and think they're organs even though they're not even fossilized there's no organic tissue fossilized at all and nobody thinks stones are organs what what qualifications do you have for telling these people spending decades doing their job that they are wrong first hand experience I've gone to the beach and I've gone to dry riverbeds and I've dug in my garden and I keep finding these pebbles they've always got the same features and I'm not the only person there's thousands of people looking into biogeology some people call it mud fossils mud floods there's all sorts of people looking at rock formations around the world now so the geologists are starting to listen to us and there's experts that are also talking to my friend Mike doctors geologists um I forgot what this is about genealogy no but what I'm saying is you're you're having a dig at the pebbles yet you don't want me to explain how I'm uh saying that I'm quite confident that they are petrified organs but let's stick to paleontology because you're you're going to geology which is a completely different subject now there's paleontologists you said you you went to the beach you went to dry riverbeds you went to uh uh something else you said I can't read my own handwriting um but you said you went a number of places I guarantee you there are paleontologists who have been to the beach been to dry riverbeds looked at rocks and also have decades working with dinosaur bones so why does that give you a superior position or even any methodology at all for saying these people are wrong because sometimes you need fresh eyes because a lot of the times when people are educated it can it could be indoctrinated if the information's false or only um uh limited so sometimes you need fresh eyes to come along and luckily my friend Mike Wilkerson on the youtube channel stallion seven uh showed me sent me some of his videos so I met up with him I went to the mountain I went into the mountain and looked at it myself and then I've started going and collecting pebbles myself so I've got firsthand experience and fresh eyes and I'm not got tunnel vision from being indoctrinated that flesh can't petrify which we know it can because there's uh historical accounts like Hiramo Sagato who petrified flesh as a living he made a museum of petrified flesh but then died and took the secret with him and we also see petrified wood wood is organic material so there's petrified wood in loads of the gemstone shops and there's uh Hiramo Sagato and there's loads of pebbles on the beach and in the riverbed which everyone can go and check for themselves and they'll see that there's lots of correlations with organs so it looks like there was a worldwide flood which looks like the biblical accounts were true okay when the Bible and the Bible says that the world's only a few thousand years old which means that dinosaurs weren't created by the intelligent designer which means they were the earth hasn't been here millions of years and if the earth hasn't been here millions of years that means there was never any dinosaurs Howard we're not debating a flood like Lee stick to the subject you're just changing subject again and again and again I did I did I did so just because you look at a stone and think it's a petrified organ doesn't mean it is going to a mate of yours watching a video on YouTube then going out to evaluate something is a terrible way to evaluate something and I'm glad you mentioned these caves because you said hey these caves are remarkably similar to elephant anatomy I don't think you're familiar with elephant anatomy at all I think you've seen elephants have you ever you know done a dissection or any kind of autopsy of a elephantine corpse or anything to be familiar with an elephant anatomy Mike Wilkerson's a chiropractor he studied the anatomy oh he's a chiropractor yeah yeah so obviously a chiropractor is familiar with elephant anatomy is that what you're saying he's researched elephant anatomy oh on on YouTube presumably you'd have to ask him but the point is it's not just me there's people all over the world finding mountains that look like giant petrified giants petrified elephants petrified trees so there's all sorts of people around the world doing taking part in the open source investigation looking at first hand evidence because when you're in a mountain you are the microscope yeah and when you go to the beach or the riverbed and you collect lots of samples and they and the repetition starts adding up and you see the same features positioned in the right place to the right scale time and time again there's over 20 correlations with the anatomy of a heart in the heart shaped stones and there's over 50 correlations with the mongo mountain that looks like an elephant inside and outside so look into it before you say that it's a load of rubbish it's a load of rubbish um have you seen an aorta or any chambers of the heart in these these stones have you found any yes comparable in elephant anatomy yeah aorta the vena car the vena caver um and also i forgot all the other parts of the heart yeah i i severely doubt you you said like when you go into the mountains you are the mountain and when you are i've never gone into the microscope and become a mountain well you said you are the riverbed you are well i mean we can we can watch it again well maybe go back i said you're the microscope well i don't think you're a microscope either when you're looking at a mountain you are the microscope you're looking at tiny details yeah mountain so a microscope is a series of lenses that magnify put after one another so you can see on a microscopic level if it doesn't make you a microscope going into a mountain it makes you a dude in a mountain yeah it's the point was when you're looking at a mountain you are zoomed into the details because we are micros we are microscopic in comparison to the mountain and you can take the rock specimen and look at them under a microscope or you can get a camera that goes into into the heart shape stones and look at the chambers where you'd expect the heart for four chambers or two chambers to be so yeah there's lots of things that my friend Mike's been doing and i'm just helping promoters work because i've had some first and experience myself i'm convinced that his theory is right and that we're looking at petrified organs which justifies a worldwide flood which justifies that the earth's only a few thousand years old which pretty much debunks that dinosaurs existed because there were supposed to be millions of years ago that doesn't follow that doesn't follow because just just if there was a worldwide flood it does not debunk all of the did you see the fossils and skeletons and skulls and tracks that i showed you why aren't those fossils real what's what's wrong with saying well they're real so they're dinosaurs and coming out the other i'm saying one thing i'm actually writing down i never said it was fake i said that you're assuming that that listen tries to stop interrupting me i'm saying that they're not millions and millions of years old that's not the debate Howard the age is not the debate it's whether they existed no i'm gonna let you change the subject and it's not changing the subject mark that's what makes dinosaurs dinosaurs the age otherwise there's no it doesn't large creatures yes they are through what makes dinosaurs dinosaurs the holes in their head the angle of their ankles the straight lines of their legs that's what makes dinosaurs dinosaurs so i don't mean interrupt but just so we don't uh gonna get caught up in the weeds on this is that like dinosaurs i'm thinking like the definition Howard that we're usually thinking of is like so theoretically if people did bring dinosaurs back to life like Jurassic Park style right now like i'd still think of them as dinosaurs even if they were so like i do i just don't want to get too caught up on the age and more just on the creatures per se but we in a little bit will have q&a but i'll give you we have a little bit more time yet so don't feel rushed but we'll jump back into open conversation and then maybe about five to ten minutes go into q&a if i may mark in your presentation you specifically said a few of them things about the legs and you said and they were in a certain age yeah prehistoric they and you named the age that they were supposedly and it's not Jurassic it's got another name i know and that is what you said in your presentation that's what makes dinosaurs dinosaurs and what i'm saying is if dinosaurs came of evolution and a big bang and all that of random chance um and the other alternatives that we were created by intelligent design and the intelligent design evidence says that everything was created a few thousand years ago then that pretty much debunks the whole narrative that what you're finding is millions and millions of years old and if that gets debunked then it goes back to us so we're actually looking at large creatures that all got covered in water some of them got covered in mud some of them got fossilized into stone because there was all sorts of cataclysms around the world when this worldwide flood happened thousands of years ago so the whole idea that dinosaurs are different than what we see now means that they are a different creation or they were not created so when i'm saying that we've got evidence that there was a worldwide flood and that this happened a few thousands of years ago and that explains why you see some bones in rock some under mud and some just petrified out loose that pretty much debunks all of the narrative that you believe in and if the narrative you believe in is debunked then everything comes up for question and all these dinosaur bones could turn out to be large chickens and large uh reptiles and large humans and all sorts of things okay so now i want to address that gish galloping how you're going on and on and on and i want to address this you can't just talk forever bringing up multiple points after point after point it's called gish gallop it's pretty dishonest um now what i said is when the scientists said dinosaurs lived at this time that the fact that their dinosaurs does not rely on when they lived whether they lived two years ago 20 years ago 50 years ago 50 million years ago does not make them anything other than dinosaurs my criteria for what defines a dinosaur was very specific it was holes in the skull it was the angle of their ankle it was the type of hip they had on their their their bone structure there was a few things there but saying that um the time when they lived was a criteria for it being a dinosaur is completely untrue and you also miss that dinosaurs could be as small as you know 20 two inches as well so it was one and a half feet i i'm sorry i'm bad with the imperial system but but those things like it doesn't matter when they lived if they arrived again today they'd still be dinosaurs yeah i got james's points but his point was if they were revived now they would be revived species for millions of years ago that came about from random evolution would they still be dinosaurs if they had ever existed millions of years ago due to random evolution they would be able to revive them but if they this isn't an evolution debate if but to be fair Howard my point my point wasn't that like i wasn't trying to emphasize that dinosaurs are like inherently for millions of years ago it was more i was just trying to say that even if they like wouldn't we still call them dinosaurs like in the movie Jurassic Park or if they were brought to life i you might want to in some way if you want to use it to try to make that case but just at least so you know my intention was not to say that there are millions of years ago per se to be honest with you and i i i'm not trying to pick on how it sounds like the debate you want to have is did dinosaurs live millions of years ago and you may have gotten the wrong debate topic or misinterpreted in some way but you're basically saying that these animals did exist they may have been dinosaurs and and you just dispute the time frame i never ever said that they may have been dinosaurs i said that they may have been larger creatures like dragons or giants that got covered in a worldwide flood and since then everything's become smaller because there's less oxygen as the scientific tests of the petrified amber showed from the two researchers from california that i showed in my presentation i never said that dinosaurs existed i've said that the reason people might mistake these bones for dinosaurs is because they don't believe in a worldwide flood even though there's loads of evidence of a worldwide flood in the pebbles in the giant this isn't a flood debate and in the giant doors that we still see constructed and all the giants depicted in the egypt and around the world in myths as well so yes my whole point is the whole definition of dinosaurs comes down to random evolution millions of years ago where if we're talking about creatures that were created by intelligent design thousands of years ago then there is no dinosaurs there's just remnants of petrified and fossilized living creatures pre flood not okay so let's let's reset that let's reset because the same pale ontologists find like mammoth bones right so do you believe that megafauna like mammoths and megatherium and and things like that existed larger creatures existed in the past so why do you trust the paleontologists on mammoth bones megatherium all of these other animals and not on dinosaurs what what is it that says hey this can't be real i don't trust the dates that they're using all necessarily the reason okay ignore the dates ignore the dates it doesn't matter it doesn't matter whatever age they lived at why do you think all all of the skeletons all of the fossils all of the eggs all of the tracks i presented from whatever age they're from it doesn't matter right why do you think they're not real what is it that tells you these are not real these animals whenever they existed couldn't have existed it's like i keep saying it and it goes through your head in one ear and another i never said that all of your evidence was fake i said that some of it could be fake and a lot of it has been misconstrued with a false timeline well it sounds like to me it sounds like to me you're basically conceding that dinosaurs existed just not in the time that you that i'm saying they did no that's exactly what it sounds like to me listen carefully larger creatures existed before a worldwide cataclysm like the flood spoken about in 500 myths and the Koran the bible and the epic of Gilgamesh what were the creatures all sorts of creatures could you be specific please look look through the encyclopedia of living creatures all of the creatures that seem to be bigger pre-flood did i show some of the creatures in my presentation and a lot of the dinosaur creatures have literally been put together by artists that thought they might have looked like this that and the other and there's a very few bone sets that are claimed to be complete and the ones that they claim to be complete are supposedly 75 percent complete we don't know if we can trust them we don't know if they're adding heads or changing details to suit a narrative that goes against their being good intelligent designer well the narrative is not against i'm not this is not an intelligent design debate it's not a flood debate it's not a geology debate keep on topic so if i showed some of the creek you're so you're basically saying all the stuff i showed you was fake even though earlier you claimed that wasn't what you're claiming so you're saying they put it together wrong are you are you now saying that that they existed though those those skeletal structures existed i've said what are you saying i've you'll have to rewind because i think everyone watching gets it there's multiple factors some things are faked some things are faked some things are misunderstood yeah there's all sorts of reasons some things are financially initiative initiative at the end of the day you said that i was talking about conspiracy theories i showed that prince charles himself admitted that he was bloodline this is not a conspiracy debate how it's not a conspiracy debate i showed evidence that he admitted his bloodline and that bloodline goes back to when not doing bloodlines of of the english monarchy seriously how what has bloodlines of the english monarchy got to do with dinosaurs we might want to stop interrupting me i'd be able to get it out so okay james this one might be a good opportunity is prince charles a dinosaur dragon reptilian dragon okay i don't know i'm just saying that they used dragons this is what i mean i got one last question you twist my word no stop let me clear what i was saying because you twist my words and then you make it look like i've said something i haven't said i'm saying that he claims to be a descendant of count dracula they use the red dragon on their flag and the also the the dragon and the serpent is used in the vatigan and the world health organization and lots of italian families the napoleon crest and these dragons show a dragon these logos show a dragon eating humans like vampires do to stay alive so if there is any truth to this conspiracy theory that they admit to then it's obvious that they would want to cover up the truth and distort it and take away the truth of a flood which white why was there the flood because there was evil in the world and make it like there are the reptilian reptiles are all friendly go watch a movie go to a theme park dinosaurs are your friend so it seems like there is a reason to promote dinosaurs and to demote dragons and serpents that have got hypnotic i don't know if they're physical or spiritual i'm just saying that there is evidence in the royal family and the crests and all the other things that i've listed i don't know what to believe in i'm just pointing out the reasons why there could be lies behind what dinosaurs are and when they supposedly were if they ever were it looks like they weren't okay how i i i hear you you're saying they're fake they're misunderstood i've got a mountain of evidence behind me and i don't believe you is there anything solid you can give me anything demonstrable that you can give me that is evidence for these claims that the pictures i showed were faked and misunderstood or have you just got your word and your mate with a youtube video i've got personal experience from making so your findings gotcha and i've also got the evidence that i put in my presentation none of it was conspiracy theory it was all factual evidence that people can check and research for themselves right it's none of it i'm sorry i forgot my t-foil hack today i'm sorry yeah but when someone admits that they're bloodline of something that's not a conspiracy theory anymore that's a conspiracy fact look i don't know look labian paler may have been a real person i think he was uh he may have been joking i don't know but it's got nothing to do with dinosaurs i have no idea where this is coming from but if all of your just let me finish if all of your evidence is um for um these these professional people who spend years doing what they learn to learn to do what they do spend decades doing it if your thing is well i see something different i'm sorry mate i don't believe you in the slightest because you've got nothing they don't have to believe me i'm just telling people what to look out for when they go to the beach or the riverbed and i've shown people evidence in my presentation that they can research for themselves there's absolutely no need for anyone to believe me but when fresh eyes come along with some new ideas and say hey go and check this for yourself it's up to you if you want to and not mark if you don't want to that's okay but next time you're at the beach just have a little look at the pebbles and you'll probably start noticing some features for yourself and then you'll be like oh yeah how would how would maybe how it was right no i live in australia made out we've got sand beaches no pebbles but i've seen pebbles and you know i think that's complete bunk um so really what i'm saying is we've got two different methodologies here one is the scientific method which is a series of observation hypothesis testing peer review um you know hours and hours of work going into experimentation and coming out with reliable results which is why you're on the internet why computers exist why cars exist why everything exists and your alternative methodology for people is to look at stuff and just decide what's true which is a terrible methodology that's not true that's what is real and what is not that's not true you don't know any of the experiments that we're looking at we're trying to have DNA analysis we're having XRF spectrophore i can't use the word i'm a bit dyslexic but there's all sorts of experiments that Mike's having done and had done he's also dissected some vertically and horizontally there's loads of different experiments being done by Mike and by other people that are interested in this field of research you've only just found out about it so i understand it sounds a bit out there but yeah if you look into it you'll see that there's many people researching and a lot of professionals are in the field as well okay one last question have you been to a museum and seen for yourself replicas no no no not all of them as i said a lot of them are real fossils and they will tell you what is a a cast and what is not have you been to a museum and seen these fossils and when i was researching it said that there is no fossils in the museums they're all replicas because of the because of the decomposition properties because of the cost because of the weight it's not uh it's just doesn't make any sense to have a real bone there for those three reasons i've said so they often if not always use replicas not just for dinosaurs but yeah especially dinosaurs because they're so precious heavy and supposedly could deteriorate so in my introduction i went straight from the pachanegi museum that basically had that they have over 230 specimens and 75 percent of those specimens are the actual fossils so you are demonstrably wrong on that count so they claim but i don't know i haven't been there i haven't tested them no no you said that they always use fakes so you're going in the museum is saying hey these are real fossils and for some reason you think you can detect that they're fake is that right i'm going off what i've read on websites and articles that from the official sources that say with the reason we use replicas is because of things deteriorating because of the weight because of the cost and if things yeah and as i pointed out in my introduction i've already covered all of this that yes they do use replicas doesn't mean they're fake they are exact replicas but the things like tyrannosaurus is skull which are weak or prone to deterioration they do but things that are not they don't and like that tyrannosaurus skull the skull was a replica because it the original is very fragile but the rest of the skeleton is the original and that's what they say and that is the skeleton that i showed being excavated and all of this is the same for tons of fossils it's just you don't want to believe it and you think you can look at stuff and go hey that's fake which you can't i'm just saying that there seems to be very little evidence of complete dinosaur bone sets considering that humans in according to your narrative the one that you believe in humans have only been here for 200 000 years yet dinosaurs were here supposedly for over a hundred million years yeah you're telling me that we've only got three thousand mostly completes not yeah yeah i addressed that already we're going around in circles yeah the rarity of fossils is because it makes perfect conditions for the fossils to form so they form very rarely i've already been over this hour yeah you've got an excuse but it doesn't justify what 200 000 years versus 165 million years and you're telling me that we've only got 3 000 partial bone sets of dinosaurs which we don't know if they've put the head of this and the leg of that and mixed them all up we don't know anything so even if they are real bones a lot have been discovered to be hoaxes a lot could be misunderstood and a lot could just be complete scammed you have any evidence of that this is about to ask you do you have any demonstrable evidence because you keep saying and making these claims and what you don't seem to understand that claiming something and demonstrating it are two totally different things so all you come out with is claims these are fake these are misunderstood they mix them up etc so on and so forth but you don't demonstrate anything you just make claims i demonstrated in my presentation three different frauds that have been published that's a claim you're claiming their frauds no they were your demonstration of these they were retracted by national geographic as frauds so if they are by the scientists that found out those frauds from the same paleontologists that you're saying aren't doing the right thing yeah there's lots of politics involved isn't there certain museums see that's another claim do you have any demonstrable evidence for the claims you keep making because when i when i go to say hey this is another claim all you do is say well i'm going to claim something else like i go to well these are the same scientists that debunked it and you say well there's a lot of fraud they're fraudulent listen you call it a claim and i'll call it a reason you gave reasons of why you believe them and i gave reasons on why i'm skeptical so why should i justify my claims claims my reasons if you're not justifying your beliefs you're just saying that you believe that they're telling the truth well great for you mate i'm showing people primary observations that they can make on the the riverbeds and on the beach i'm showing people how you can look up about prince charles and the italian families and the napoleon how they all use the zest of a dragon eating a baby and that's what vampires and that the whole idea of vampires and reptilians would do so i'm not sure what is true i'm just pointing out evidence from official sources historical facts uh constructions and primary observations that we can now make ourselves and we'll get reproducible evidence pedals um so i disagree i'm showing people ways that they can check things i'm not making claims that aren't verifiable i've given reasons on why i'm skeptical and you've given lots of reasons and why you you're faithful so yeah you keep your faith if you want so no it's not not faith i don't know what sort of definition of faith you're using there but sort of we have this is evidence that i'm showing i'm presenting evidence demonstrable evidence her faith is sort of something that you believe in with no if you have evidence you don't need faith and i've presented a ton of evidence not just reasons have you found any dinosaur bones i haven't no why so it's a faith so it's a faith you're believing in what other people say they found that's great thanks for your honesty mark mark well thank you i have found pebbles i have found i've found pebbles correlation good now take a good look at them again yeah if they're not they're not organs so i have looked at pebbles no they're not organs no yeah i have what do you think i've never seen a pebble before you just said that there are no pebble beaches you just said there's no pebble beaches there's rivers dude what are you talking about now go back to that river and start looking at the pebbles with new eyes and you've looked at pebbles listen how would you sound absolutely barmy yeah well maybe i wouldn't if you didn't interrupt me all the time when i'm pretty sure you would look barmy you're doing it again mark what can i speak without you interrupt yeah go for it sorry yeah right now that you know that people are saying that pebbles appear to be petrified organs go back to the riverbed and start looking at the pebbles maybe break one and you'll see that the inside is darker than the outside so that if you if you can see a fracture then you know that the ones that haven't been fractured are whole intact pieces and then you'll notice that 15 to 20 percent of all pebbles have a harp shape and the ones that have the heart shape always have the correlations oh this why do you keep changing the subject because i have evidence of a worldwide flood which justifies the narrative there's only a few thousand years old and your narrative your narrative for the topic narrative needs millions of years for dinosaurs to be to be real we must jump into the qna do want to say both of our guests are linked in the description that includes at the podcast folks if you want to hear more from our guests regarding their views you can by clicking on those links below in the description box or if you're listening via podcast as we put all of the modern day debate debates up on our podcast available at fine podcast apps everywhere you can also find our guest links there in the description box at the podcast episode so both mark and howard are linked with that thanks very much we're going to jump into our first question this one coming in from mr monster says what makes you think dinosaurs could not have went extinct 65 million years ago have you done any tests yourself i think they're telling you howard like yeah if we can't distinguish between fossils and petrified organs of a few thousand years ago then how would we know what's a few thousand years and what's hundreds of millions of years ago it looks like everything happened at the same time which is why we get temples still being excavated from sand and the earth and there's also temples under water in the stargate star fortresses still half covered in mud on the top of mountains and the remnants of marine life on the top of Mount Everest there's lots of evidence of a worldwide flood which would explain all of the fossils petrified organs and bones and everything that we find as well as the different layers of density and stuff like as a pyroclastic cloud flow so a worldwide flood explains everything and pretty much debunks the idea that there was things living millions of years ago because you wouldn't be able to distinguish and there wouldn't be layers of age like they claim there is i hope i answered that can i add can i add something or are we just going okay well you know we can tell the difference between pebbles and fossils pebbles are pebbles fossils are fossils they're not the same thing we can tell the difference um yeah how can the humans please don't twist my words i said petrified organs fossilized fossilized bones did you guys certainly have chemistry what i do we have something i tell you it's probably that the shapehead's mate it's uh giving a connection also folks i have to tell you we are tentatively planning on hosting our second conference we just this week finally found a date we're planning on october 28th so if you happen to live in texas we're planning on dallas it's going to be huge and with that follow modern day debate for more details on that we'll try to put out announcements to give you a heads up as we it's about two months away and we're still planning in particular who's going to be there though i will say a couple of names that have already agreed or destiny and actual justice warrior this one coming in from oflamio says if chickens are dinosaurs and chickens exist then dinosaurs exist our supermarket rotisserie chickens a corpocracy conspiracy howard the idea that birds are dinosaurs convincing to you or not if i understand it right um it's my point entirely if chickens were a lot bigger in the past and we found a bone set of a large chicken it would be mistaken for t-rex or maybe another dinosaur so i think that's the point that he's making that i was making before mark any thoughts oh yeah well chickens are a sort of subset of dinosauria um there are some very difference for the apes or the avians dinosaurs rather than non-avians um and scales did evolve into feathers we know that but you know i to be charitable to howard here you know i think that the subject really was about non-avian dinosaurs the you know classic uh theropods and sauropods you got it and cameron hall says dear howard why have we found dinosaur skulls or what looked to be dinosaur skulls by your own admission but we don't seem to have found giant human skulls i showed um multiple articles even from um scientific american where um there's loads of giant human skeletons found but then by regular people this is the thing there's no depiction of dinosaurs in any of the ancient carbines like i said but there is depictions of giants there's been giant skeletons found worldwide since the beginning of time yet funny enough the smithonian institute comes up they take everything thank you and then they'll say oh no it was all fake it was all fake or it was actually dinosaurs and we're supposed to just believe them even though they have their own agendas and motives because it's an organized organization with board members that have what they want to be pushed as truth and what they don't to be debunked so yeah there's uh there's lots of skeletons as in my presentation and if you just google you'll you'll find loads yourself people really should do this research for themselves juzy why are you wearing a fluoride t-shirt is there some sort of oh okay all right we've seen enough put it away all right this one coming in from i i had a feeling it wasn't just some sort of innocuous normal this one coming in from robert summers how do you know that the art that depicts giants is literal and not just artistic techniques to make someone or something more grandiose for example brilliant question brilliant question so you take evidence from different parts of the world that had no communication with each other and then you think well why are they all saying the same thing they're showing dragons they're showing snakes all over the world they're showing giant people there's giant doors in the constructions of all the temples and other constructions around the world so you start correlating the evidence and you see that there's a pattern but there's no reason for the for there to be a pattern why did they make large doors why did they draw large people why do they claim to find large human skeletons why do they have texts in their uh language from ancient religions and myths that had no communication with people in another part of the world that were right in their myths and drawing their depictions and building their big doors so yeah i see logic that the reason we get the same results in different places isn't because they had telephone service thousands of years ago it's because they were all dealing with the same thing and until the worldwide flood uh this was just a common a common part of life must move forward this one coming in from do appreciate your question as well meredon says howard how do you address something like su quote unquote and that but just the name sue which is a very complete t-rex skeleton we have which could not be mistaken for anything else and is accepted as not being a hoax yeah um mark already used sue as an example because it's not supposedly 90 complete so yeah it's good evidence that we can believe in but how can we know what's a replica and what's not if the people that are claiming that it's genuine could be on the payroll i'm not saying it is a fake i'm saying that we shouldn't trust one example when there's lots of examples that is a cover up you got it and this one appreciate your question coming in from bubble gum gun let's see no it's not as really well mark i have a feeling you might be able to address this so since it was seen by the live chat they said that atheists are allegedly mad because dinosaur fossils had tissue in them i think they mean like soft tissue i know that you do a lot of creation evolution debates so if you want to address it mark since it's already been seen by everybody in the live chat we'll give you a chance if you want to address it yeah so they they basically thought that there were um no way that soft tissue can be preserved but under sort of exceptional circumstances the scientists found some soft tissue they still couldn't extract DNA so we can sort of kiss the Jurassic park thing goodbye it's very very um decayed soft tissue as far as i understand it um the creationist sort of jumped up and down and said oh they found blood they couldn't be that old kind of thing completely wrong not blood soft tissue it's been preserved it's not a big deal it it just means that tissue can survive longer than we first thought and the people that work that out are scientists not you know sort of people sitting on the sidelines just sort of making wild claims but thanks bubble dumb i appreciate it i howard i'm sorry i i kind of gave you a hard time earlier because i was so skeptical about whether or not there are alleged organs that have been like fossilized and so regardless of them being young or old like i'm not trying to side with you on in terms of their age howard but i will say i was a little bit hard on you before because i looked at you so with such a stink eye this one coming in from so mark says mark seems to grant it but he says it still doesn't give it's not like it's any evidence for your side but bubblegum gun or i should say olflameo says our chickens dragons howard no this one coming into chickens dragons were dragons you'd have heck you says to mark if dinosaurs are real how come we've never found a crock a pebble i don't know what that's supposed to mean if i think that's a joke i think that's a joke on on evolution kind of the the crock a pebble you know what i really would like to find a crock a pebble i would like that as a pet rock wouldn't that be awesome okay may i just add and howard there was a creature that had scaly skin that i showed and i forgot to add in my video if anyone is interested in looking at the naga cave in thailand it's a big stone formation magically looks like a snake and it it doesn't just have the whole body and the head it also again has the scaly skin so you can make your own minds up but yeah naga cave in thailand would be one of them alligator pebbles that you're on about you got it this one coming in from do appreciate your question pancake of destiny says vampires reptilians dragons global flood existed but dinosaurs are not real howard in my mind the whole idea of what a dinosaur is random evolution millions and millions of years ago but if we can show that there was a catastrophe thousands of years ago and that all of these fossils can be accounted for and all of these petrified organs and all of these remains and different trails and eggs if all of this evidence that i never said was all fake mark if all of this evidence that mark shown can be explained via a worldwide flood a few thousand years ago and that debunked dinosaurs sorry this one coming in from rage pro says by the way thanks for your membership rage pro we appreciate it says search power feeding i work with large pythons either of you familiar with that i don't think it's an innuendo power feeding howard are you familiar we can come back to that in case you find anything mark this one coming in from do appreciate your question og snoop says a dinosaur isn't a dinosaur if it is not from the mesozoic era the debate didn't go anywhere past the intro because mark couldn't engage with dating mark any thoughts yeah so this isn't this isn't a debate about about dating at all it's about whether dinosaurs existed at all so you know if if howard wanted a different topic you should have chosen a different topic like what what date did the dinosaurs live wasn't wasn't the subject of the debate well that's where me and this person disagree with you because our point is the whole definition of dinosaur is that they were millions of years ago and about evolution and all that if we're all created in this worldwide flood happened a few thousands of years ago it's just yeah that's just that's just other there's you can't have both now maybe you're conceding that dinosaurs what you think of dinosaurs what you call dinosaurs might have lived a few thousand years ago great if you're if you're willing to concede that that's a possibility then my work here is done today i'm happy that i've at least opened your idea to the idea that dating might be all wrong and that hopefully will lead you to go and look at the pebbles next time you're on the river or when you travel to a beach that does have pebbles i'm hoping i'm hoping that i've just planted that seed for you mark that pebble now the problem is that you're in a debate about one subject and i prepared for that one subject and put a lot of work in now you get into the debate howard and dishonestly you try to change the subject to other subjects like dating and radiometric dating and how we date things you try to change it to the flood you try to change it to pebbles you try to change it to geology you try to change it to conspiracy theories you obviously have no idea let me finish you have no idea what a debate is when you choose a topic you go into debate that topic what you don't do is dishonestly try to change it to anything else so you can you can debate what you want if i may just quickly say james i don't like you using the word conspiracy theories when i specifically used people's first accounts and logos that people can check for themselves and i don't like you using the word dishonest when i clearly explained why i was using multiple evidences to make my case on why dinosaurs didn't exist in the time frame that you believe in which means that there was no dinosaurs there were large creatures no dinosaurs thank you this one but i have the last word the question was for me yeah sure yeah so um this is the thing the only very very tangential tangentially related you could do that with any debate you could drag in whatever you want and there was no clear connection to any of the things that you were saying all you were doing were loosely making assertions that only vaguely came into it we were debating do dinosaurs exist and you got on to Vlad the Impaler and Dracula and in a conspiracy to overthrow the world because reptoids were going to we're using dinosaurs so reptoids could take over the world um i just i just your presentation said it said that may be happening i did watch your presentation Howard you're aware of that now i do know Howard i do get the final word because the question was for me so if you don't like that say something else and then i'll have the final word again this one coming in from do appreciate your question kim john ultra says Howard please can you expand on what you mean when you say quote i don't know i'm just saying unquote if i've said that is because i've never claimed to have answers i've got questions i've got doubts and i've got a lot of evidence and logic to support my doubts and my questions i've never asked anyone to believe me i'm just showing people how they can find the evidence and the information for themselves and then make their own minds up nothing dishonest about that and yeah by the way folks if you haven't yet hit that like button so far this has been a popular debate we're having around 450 we're at about 438 right now so we do appreciate your hitting that like button as that does help the video get recommended to more people if you think that your side was most persuasive hit that like button and more people will see your side winning this debate when youtube recommends this video what are you doing okay so anyway let's say i just love giving you a hard time Howard but this one coming in from appreciate this is one of the standard question list dan cunningham had a point they said is is howard aware that the prince of wales is not actually welsh in particular to add clarification howard keeps bringing up the red dragon of the welsh flag i think they're saying that it's a good point it's not actually there's not actually a connection there is the welsh flag it's not connected to the prince of wales is it true like i'm i'm not familiar but it's not just a welsh flag yeah and it's not just a welsh flag i could have a round two if you want mark and i'll have much more see i've only had a few days to prepare for this and i've tried to get as much information in 10 minutes as possible yeah yeah so you appreciate that it's hard to get a lot of ideas and information into 10 minutes i can find some more dragons and more flags and more logos and more crests if you want i'd be happy to have a rematch and get myself a bit more organized and better prepared and i can back up all of the evidence i've got with more if you want to have a debate that there's coincidences in the world i'm not sure i want to debate that because i'm not going to go against that um yeah see what i think i'm a bit too tired to think about at the moment but you know we'll see we'll see well with just a couple more questions as mark is staying up late with us mark in your time zone your do i remember right are you in the same time zone as sydney australia no no i'm uh western australia sign plus eight i'm basically 12 hours from east and standard uh eastern time okay and we we want to get you to sleep quick then so we'll just maybe do not yeah it's like two more really really quick ones this one coming in from delaney says okay i admit it howard i have reptile blood question do i have reptile blood or do any humans i'm not making any claims i don't know if um what this i don't know why the elite and the vatigan and the will held organizers i don't know why they worship a serpent i don't know what the serpent is i don't know if it's a spiritual energy i don't know if it's a physical manifestation i don't know if it's a bloodline i don't know i'm not making any claims i'm just pointing out that they seem to pay homage to the reptilian and the serpent uh existence which we've seen in the the genesis story in which we've seen depicted in egypt greece um south america cambodia all over the world they have depictions of serpents and dragons in their constructions constructions that we don't know how they built because they were built by civilizations that had a different way of building whether it was uh acoustic levitation or uh what i don't know i just know that i see serpents and dragons all over the place even today in modern uh logos like the flag of wales and stuff so yeah you've got it and this one last one rue from the dock appreciate it says howard you six son of a gun i added that part you say dinosaurs and millions of years for evolution what about the hundreds of millions of years before dinosaurs are all those ancient creatures fake as well i guess so because there's zero evidence to support them and um the little evidence that they try and use like carbon dating has been up for debate for many years there's lots of problems with it so i just stick to evidence that we can reproduce for ourselves and i keep an open mind to things that we can't verify like the replica bones in the museums don't know you got it so howard just a just i'll just say something quickly we don't use carbon dating for anything that old how it doesn't work it's only like a few thousand years old so it kind of suggests to me that you don't know anything about radiometric dating and the other methods of it so um yeah you got it and want to mention our guests are linked both here on youtube at modern day debate as well as at the modern day debate podcast i just put a live chat poll in and someone said is the modern day debate podcast on spotify it sure is we are on virtually every podcast app there is and you can find marx and howard's links in the description box at the podcast as well and a lot of you i i just found out in this poll a lot of you maybe didn't know that it's 100 add free because even on youtube if i click on monetize for a video like let's say i kind of worry that youtube is uh maybe not going to like the video because someone says fluoride is poison i don't know something like that is even if i don't monetize a video youtube will actually add on ads to a video even if the content creator didn't or at least one ad at the start and so that's something i've learned and i'm like wow youtube geez even if i tell i purposely try to make it so that there won't be any ads youtube still has that right and generally does do that so the podcast is 100 ad free there are zero ads on the podcast folks so if that's useful to you to download and listen to on your commute or something like that you can listen to marx and howard's beautiful voices on the podcast and there are no ads at all if you get sick of ads on youtube and who can blame you mr monster last minute question says so reptiles existed but dinosaurs didn't i think that's for you big reptiles big birds big humans big ever big plants big mushrooms big asparagus like i've shown in the stone formations that wouldn't have happened from wind or water erosion so yeah look into biogeology anyone that's interested and um just uh don't be put off by my dyslexia or that you know mark can point out that i might have not read up on carbon dating and thing as much as he has i'm not it's not about me it's not about testing me or my skills or my grammar it's all about the evidence that i'm presenting can you find it for yourself and like i said i haven't given any conspiracy theories in my presentation i've just pointed out some facts and i've also shown ways methods for people to check for themselves you got it and want to let our guests or i should say especially mark who's staying up late with us thanks again mark for staying up late want to let mark get to sleep by a decent time so thank you howard and mark it's been a true pleasure i'm going to be back in just a moment folks with a post credit scene updating you about upcoming debates so stick around for that but one last thank you in addition to everybody out there thank you guys for your questions for the qna and thank you as well howard and mark it's been a true pleasure to have you thank you james thank you have thank you thank you audience thanks for watching thanks guys fully and completely thank you guys and i'll be back in just a moment folks so stick around ladies and gentlemen want to say thanks so much for being with us we are absolutely pumped to have you here i want to give you a couple of quick announcements about upcoming debates and i am pumped we are tentatively scheduling modern-day debate debate con for october 28th in dallas now that's like super tentative we're still coming up with all the details for that i will let you know as more details come out but this is going to be an in-person conference many of the debates will be live streamed completely for free so we are putting this together we're gonna have a crowdfund for it that we're gonna try to get started that just helps us pay for the cost of like the venue stuff like that and basically just like last time we did it if you weren't here for the first the first one that we did in january which is our first actual like big conference and it was a two-day conference it's gonna be huge believe me it's gonna be tremendous so i want to say happy to have you with us i see you there in the old live chat i want to say hello to you snowflakes nightmare glad you are here rue from the dot happy to have you doubting thomas glad you're with us cx coin bag holder thanks for dropping by osama bama gone glad you are here darth revan good to see you again and long night's youtube and thanks for coming by we are glad that you are here thanks for your membership support seriously that means a lot and you guys for 199 a month if i remember right you can become a channel member here on youtube which is pretty hip because you get to use these amazing emoticons for example let me put one of my favorite ones you can call people a soy boy using the emoticon if you enjoy calling people soy boy like me i'd like hey it's a fun time but feel free to call me a soy boy i always i always embrace the old moda what's the old the word what's the word when you have a nickname uh is it moniker i can't remember the word but nonetheless the point is this my dear friends we're excited about the future we have big things coming up i want to say thanks so much for all of your guys's support seriously long night's youtube and says i love the last event debate con 2 will be amazing thanks for your positivity long night's youtube and seriously we appreciate that that means more than you know and we're excited about the future we have things that we can improve on we will be honest about that thanks pancake of destiny says welcome to extra juicy thanks for becoming a channel member pancake of destiny seriously we appreciate that enjoy those emoticons enjoy calling everyone in chat a soy boy but yeah that's right i mean we're always we're very fair here you we call people soy girl too but want to say you're probably wondering oh boy i'm curious in terms of this conference who's going to be there well we are just starting it so like this is we've reached out to some of our like kind of key guests destiny and shawn fits gerald aka actual justice warrior we've reached out to and then of course the people that are going to say thank you so much for your support side show nav as well as chris gammon i reached out to them as people who have helped us put on the last one and when i say help i mean like they were integral they made it i was like it was so helpful because i came in and i was just like oh my gosh i can't believe how there's this much work but bob and chris and others as well we're like hey like we're happy to help and so i just really do appreciate that so many people have been so helpful with these conferences but osama bomb us as well how would be there i don't it's howard is it's kind of hard to get howard in from new i think he's in new zealand i can't remember none he's not in new zealand i think he's in europe so it's a little bit tough to make that happen but mike good to see i see i says hey brother james hey mike we're glad you are with us and abdulla agmadi says debate con always in the usa yeah i'm sorry about that maybe we'll get one in europe at some point maybe like in england that would be the coolest thing ever to have one in london for real someday give us a few years and maybe at least a year i don't know but pancake of destiny says just became a member am i now an amazing beta-based soyboy yes indeed you are and yes thank you for your support salvarix thanks for your youtube channel support as well thanks for becoming a member salvarix and there's nothing more enjoyable than using the emoticon to just call someone a random soyboy but there's also the emoticon amazing that you can use as well as juicy that's one of my other ones putting that in the live chat right now but vegan gaze thanks for coming by says it would be would be based if you could come to london seriously we would love to and no joke like it's not that unrealistic like that is actually something like i would be like pumped to do so for real like that's like someday like i because there are there's a lot of a lot of talented speakers that would probably be pumped to do it so for example we've hosted sargon before i know he's is he i think he's actually in england i'm trying to remember and then kendin far is not from england but he's nearby he's not too far he's in the uk so there are a lot of big timers like strong debaters that we'd love to have and hey zoos hoes uh gonzal is says hey james glad to have you with us my friend and then stream of consciousness says soy girl doesn't rhyme that's true i mean that's important right so rob simpson thanks for coming by says beta badges available that's right you get a you can call it a beta badge for the membership as well and then let's see simo's fun glad to have you here kim john ultra thanks for coming by and phoenix thanks for coming by says i'm at the beginning i missed it live well we're glad you're here better late than never my friend and oman grant happy to have you here says i am literally the og and thank you stream of consciousness for being with us as well as dan cunningham says have you ever considered trying an oxford style time debate might be interesting but also could be less spicy i'm open to it we used to be more time debates but then a lot of people said hey i'm actually not into that i want more open conversation like okay we can do it that way if you want but i'm open to it like we could try it again and yeah usually the religion debates are usually a little bit more structured that's just kind of the culture of the religion debates but unwanted opinion says amazing stream of consciousness says have a good day thanks for your support as well as strong as i show now thanks for your using the emoticon nasty using nasty guy deans speaking of nasty diesel or unleaded in the live chat that just said speaking of pebbles formed by the river currents i want to see the pebbles of howard oh nasty guy i'm just kidding but what to say you guys we appreciate you want to say thanks for your support i love teasing you guys as teasing is like my love language as well as unwanted opinion thanks for coming by says can you please say obama okay obama it is as well as high flyer good to see you again jeremy nolan thanks for coming by you to have accuses obama thank you for coming by joe the toast as i missed it who won james hey i don't know i mean you got to tell me what do you guys think dinosaurs the real thing or not fate zero thanks for coming by and let's see osama obama says joe the tow howard one but let's see this is jeremy nolan says james can you debate on covid origins that would be interesting i agree it would i don't know if youtube is gonna go for that we might get you know hammered for that but what are you gonna do i mean hey it's worth a shot right now speaking of youtube like i said i am looking around i want to say you guys thank you so much 165 likes is great for a live stream so thank you guys for your support seriously that really does mean a lot we're only like to get to 175 to only be a quarter away from 200 there's only 10 more likes so if you haven't hit like that really does help seriously in the algorithm youtube does actually consider like hey how many people are liking this video that might influence how many people they recommend it to and so we do appreciate your guys's support seriously your positivity means a lot and there is a lot of positivity in the live chat we really do appreciate that for real we appreciate you being here no matter how far left politically you are we're glad you're here no matter how far right you are politically we're glad you're here and even if you have some of the views that consider you people are considering a wacky out there crackpot ish we hope you feel welcome we want to give you a fair shot in the land of ideas we really do want to just let the arguments speak for themselves we want we don't we're not into the whole like deep platforming stuff it's we think it's very soy really i mean hey if you're really confident in your arguments great here's an opportunity we can give people a chance to make their case putting best their strongest arguments and we think that the strongest arguments the most logical arguments the most evidence-based arguments are gonna win out in the end so we're letting a thousand flowers bloom here and we're suspecting that as in most competitions whether it be in the case of arguments or in the case of athletes whatever it is the cream is gonna rise to the top that's just you could say in a way it's almost like a natural selection of ideas ideas don't mutate in quite the same way i mean it's certainly not the literal same way but in a way ideas do mutate it like and they actually kind of adapt so for example it's pretty interesting if you think about it like sometimes an argument has you know a lot going for it and somebody brings up a really tough objection it's like ooh and so for example like Kant's categorical imperative i think Kant originally are you know he he handled this in the original uh critique of pure reason but you know sometimes people are like well you know but Kant if everybody became a surfer nobody would be you know producing food and so if everybody followed that maxim and you know became a surfer let's say uh namely if you you know like let's say you'd say that would be a you know immoral because it would kind of thwart society in the sense that no food would be produced so i guess it's immoral if somebody wants to become a professional sorcerer for their career surfer for their career and so it's interesting that you know the Kantian ethics nonetheless is adapted to kind of handle that so in a way it's almost like arguments do kind of like uh what's the word almost mutate in a way but nonetheless to be fair to Kant i think that was originally in the critique of pure reason did you know that Kant never left his hometown in Germany and yet he's probably the third most influential philosopher ever behind only Plato and Aristotle socrates is probably in there too to be fair so maybe he's looking he's at least in the top five probably top four Kant isn't that crazy never left his hometown just shows you folks you don't have to leave your hometown if you want to leave your mark on the world if you were a loving kind person even in your own hometown if you show people love and support and you're sincere with them that can go a long way that can make people feel loved and cared for and the you could see the effects of that as they pay that forward and you could say that they've learned how to love others as a result of observing you modeling that loving behavior that can make a big difference in the world it's a real thing so want to say though thanks for being here ex-muslim r.s.cid thanks for coming by as well as unwanted opinion and best in show thanks for coming by ben burrito am i saying it right let me know we are pumped that you're with us dan cunningham happy to have you viking viking and pg thanks for coming by did i say it right let me know captain butt thanks for your support like button clicked he said we're ready to we just blew past that goal we're already at a hundred we're almost that goal of 175 we're at 173 so 172 we only need three more likes we'll be at that goal of 175 which really does go a long way we appreciate that you guys that means a lot side show nasa's you big tease james this nasty guy but let's see fate zero glad to have you as well as fugazi 500 thanks for coming by we're glad that you're here bruce six hey good to see you again a long time viewer thanks for your support seriously randolph says thanks for another great modern day debate james these free exchanges of ideas are important and i appreciate what you're doing thanks for that support randolph seriously like i said we appreciate randolph's always been supportive of the idea that we agree with if you let a thousand flowers bloom if you let the chips fall where they may the cream is going to rise to the top the strongest arguments are going to win out that is what we believe and it really is logical to believe right in fact i can say there's even an empirical case that can be made that that's what's going to happen as petty and casiapo talk about this 1986 publication it's a peer reviewed article and really supported theory in the psychological literature mountains of empirical evidence supporting it suggesting that in terms of persuasion absolutely 100 the central route of processing namely logical argumentation and kind of deliberation and critical thinking is more persuasive compared to peripheral routes things like how attractive is the speaker or how famous is the speaker or how many arguments they have regardless of quality because quality should obviously be a factor those things are called peripheral routes of persuasion and they don't seem to last as long they don't seem to be as persuasive and so hey if you're worried like oh man james i'm worried that some you know person with these terrible arguments is going to win the debate because you know maybe they're a little bit more humor they've got a better sense of humor or they're a little better looking or whatever they're a little more charismatic well i would say don't worry the evidence suggests that the best arguments are going to win and so even if they may have those kind of bell and whistle type features of being more attractive so for example let's say they look like george cloney good for george maybe they're a beautiful looking human being tremendous you know i'd love to look like george cloney or maybe who's like the equivalent on the female side of in terms of like ladies out there i think like when i was younger it used to be angelina jolly carrie underwood was popular i mean she's very beautiful who is i don't know who would be like comparable to george i mean you know george has been you know uh it's true like you know he's aged well good for him but i'm trying to think of i would say i'm trying to think of who do i think is like really pretty man it's tough i used to have like celebrity crushes and now i'm not it's just it's not george cloney but let me find out let me see i think that like i don't even know who's popular anymore but i've got to go in a little bit i'm actually running behind but let me know in the live jet i'm kind of curious your celebrity crushes what do you think i don't know who's who is it i don't know but angelina jolly yeah scarlett johansson pretty lady too margaret robbie yeah she's a pretty lady germy nolyn says james another good debate topic is a biogenesis that's true unwanted opinions this debate ben Shapiro about gravity myla coon is yeah she's very pretty boderic that's like a hundred years ago but sure and let's see so yeah i'm trying to think anybody else i don't know but yeah i would say like carrie underwood i used to have a crush on cannell reeves i was looking for female female actresses but or actors of oh yeah sure so mahiak yeah he's a pretty lady so i don't know i i always thought carrie was cute i don't know that's just me i mean like i'm you know very pretty lady but like yeah it's crazy oh yes three says i just tuned in to say james thanks for your support appreciate it man thanks for your positivity we appreciate it oh yeah it's good to see you glad you made it and brook shield says rob simpson true pretty lady but want to say thanks guys seriously for your support i gotta run it's getting late want to say we love you guys thanks for all your support we'll give you more details about debate con which will be in dallas in late october it's going to be huge if you live in texas it will be fun and we're working on making this one even better than the last one we really were like we can definitely improve this and it's going to be better so want to say thank you guys for your support seriously roseanne bar black mama says yeah sure and then elaine from seinfeld and then jennifer lopez yeah they're like yeah it works for me but want to say thanks guys we love you guys hope you have a great rest of your night or day wherever you are and we'll see you at the next one we've got a juicy debate coming up for sure on friday and i'm we might even have as many as two before that in particular last night if you were watching the flatter's debate with just a little some connection issues but we're going to make that work hopefully in this next several days i'm going to host it it's going to be a fun one it's going to be tremendous you don't want to miss it so thanks everybody i'm excited to see you in the future keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable as we strive together to provide a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field thanks to everybody we love you and hope to see you next time at modern day debate