 The final item of business is a member's business debate on motion 3226, in the name of Pam Goswell, on the Scottish apprenticeship week 2022. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put. I would be grateful if anybody wants to participate in the debate. I could press the request-to-speak button, so, if there is an R in the chat function. I call on Pam Goswell for around seven minutes, Ms Goswell. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am grateful for the opportunity to open my very first member's business debate. I welcome colleagues from across the chamber to speak on my motion acknowledging Scottish apprenticeship week 2022. As the shadow spokesman for further education and training, I am pleased to be able to mark this week for the first time since being elected. This year's theme is apprenticeships work, so I will dedicate my speech to the ability of apprenticeships to transform career prospects, address gaps in the labour market and advance on our economy. I would like to offer thanks to Apprenticeship Scotland, Skills Development Scotland and the Construction Industry Training Board for not only providing me with helpful briefings ahead of this debate but also for their hard work all year round facilitating links between learners and employers. I would like to commend every employer who has taken a chance on a keen learner and considers apprenticeships a worthwhile investment. As we know, apprenticeships are work-based learning opportunities or jobs with industry-recognised qualifications. Over 12,000 employers support Scottish apprenticeships, and it is estimated that there are currently around 43,000 apprentices across Scotland. Right now, in 2022, a dramatic skills shift is taking place because factors such as Covid-19 and COP26 declarations, the long-lasting changes in the jobs market that Covid-19 has created, means that skills shortages are becoming increasingly commonplace. Around two thirds of Scottish companies are struggling to find employees that pose the required skills and further 74 per cent anticipate the need to upskill their staff. The journey to net zero will require nothing short of green skills revolution. Projects such as the mass retrofitting of Scotland's households will require skill sets, which, as it stands, are few and far between. As those are exactly the type of dilemma that apprenticeships can accommodate for their reason, they will play a fundamental role in our economic recovery. I expect that many businesses are experiencing increased demand but do not have the capacity to expand their operations. While we are currently seeing many school leavers going into higher education, that should not be the determinant of the other learning pathways. Across the chamber, I believe that it is essential to stress the importance of apprenticeships and the opportunities that they afford to learners. University is not for everyone, and it is important to diversify the skills that we equip workers with. If everybody had the same set of skills, there would be a lack of diversity in thought, innovation and creation. I thank the member for that intervention. Absolutely. It should never be second base. It should be there for a choice for every learner. During my teenage years, my father took me under his wing and showed me the ropes of his business. While today we may call this process an apprenticeship, the truth is that this practice has been around for many long years. It was until he sadly passed away that I decided that I had to step up and take over the business and provide for my family. Despite leaving school with no qualifications or experience, what I learnt from my father was invaluable. I later decided to return to formal education as a mature student alongside my work and due to my untraditional route into education, I am a huge advocate for gaining on-the-job experience with apprenticeships that apprenticeships provide. However, there is still more that we need to do to ensure that everyone is afforded the same access to apprenticeships. Employers such as Glen Morangie, whom my colleague Sue Webber visited yesterday, say that they are still struggling to attract female apprentices into what is perceived as a male dominant industry. I heard myself when I visited the new college Lanarkshire in Kirkntillock. They also warn that apprenticeships are easier to access than some local authorities than others and that more needs to be done to the postcode lottery. Just this morning, in the Equalities and Human Rights Committee, I was able to raise the importance of ensuring that apprentices are accessible to all groups, including disabled people. When meeting with apprentices in Alwa yesterday, my colleague Alexander Stewart learnt that there needs to be better engagement with third sector organisations to maximise apprenticeship opportunities in those settings, but we would also like to listen to apprentices themselves. Apprentices such as Kieran, whom I met in Dunbarton yesterday, and his apprenticeship with Ding Bro, Kieran is a learning skill that will set him up for his whole career. However, he feels that, for some young people, current apprenticeship pay is not enough to incentivise them to follow this career path. In conclusion, it is clear that apprenticeship work, they work for apprentices, employers, the local economy and the wider community. For that reason, I conclude with three things that we can all do to help apprenticeships to fulfil their potential role. First, by engaging with individuals, businesses, educators and apprenticeships, we can provide them with better-aligned skills provision with demand and future trends. Secondly, as members across this Parliament visit apprentices and employers to mark Scottish apprenticeship week, it is important that we ask what more can we do to improve access into this career pathway. Lastly, by encouraging young people to properly consider every career pathway that is open to them, no single pathway is right for everyone, and we should encourage people to take a truly open-minded approach to this issue. I would like to congratulate Pam Gosall on securing this debate during Scottish Apprentice Week and for sharing with us her own experiences. Scotland has 43,000 apprentices who are acquiring first-hand industry experience suitable for responding to the nation's ever-changing employment skill needs. These input opportunities play an essential role in the nation's economic renewal as we recover from a pandemic. I apologise. I will leave that to your discretion, Mr Gibson. I congratulate Pam Gosall on securing this debate during Scottish Apprentice Week and for sharing her own personal experiences. Scotland has 43,000 apprentices who are acquiring first-hand industry experience suitable for responding to the nation's ever-changing employment skill needs. Those opportunities play an essential role in the nation's economic renewal as we recover from the pandemic. Work-based learning systems help to address skill shortages and boost productivity. With more than 12,000 employers offering apprenticeships the opportunity to learn on-the-job significantly reduces youth unemployment with 92 per cent of modern apprentices staying in work once they have qualified. Despite the reduction in uptake due to the pandemic, 447 young people started a modern apprenticeship in North Ayrshire from 2020 to 2022, highlighting the success of the programme and the motivation of young people to gain employment, boost their skillset, conference and start a career. The young person's guarantees created 18,000 opportunities for young people, including modern apprenticeships, tackled inequalities and removed barriers preventing young people from entering employment. Apprenticeships can help to drive equity of opportunity and give employers the tools and support to be inclusive in recruitment. Skills Development Scotland strives to ensure fair workplaces and equal opportunities for Scotland's young workforce. Employers who recruit apprentices are encouraged to diversify their workforce, and they can sometimes be unconscious bias present when selecting candidates. It is vital to ensure that all frameworks, particularly STEM apprenticeships, reduce gender bias, encouraging all young people into the industry that suits them best. Young disabled people can now receive the highest level of funding for their chosen modern apprenticeship, with this scheme having supported over 5,000 disabled people as they enter employment. I am happy to give way. I would like to thank Mr Gerson for his excellent speeches. Does he agree that Scotland's college sector has a huge part to play in the evolution of modern apprenticeships? Does he also agree that the current set of cups that that sector is facing as a result of this year's Scottish Government is hardly going to benefit the apprenticeship programme across Scotland? The group colleges have a vital part to play, and I do not recognise the cuts agenda that he mentions. He perhaps should look at the difference between college funding north and south of the border. I think that that might open his eyes somewhat. Scotland's unique apprenticeship programmes allow more flexibility to employers to ensure apprentices benefit their businesses, while offering continuous assessment to ensure that apprentices achieve their goals, technical qualifications and core skills. Comparatively, English apprentices are tied to approved programmes and must complete end-point assessment, including core functional English and maths, meaning that many young people can access the benefits of those programmes. The continuing increase in apprentice numbers ensures a bright future for both the economy and the apprentices themselves as they learn valuable inter-industry skills. As part of Scottish apprentice week, I was pleased to visit DSM nutrition products limited in my constituency yesterday, meeting six of their 36 apprentices, Jamie, Carla, Liam, Logan, Murn and Timo, to discuss their career pathways so far and their future ambitions. The company plans to employ 119 apprentices by 2024, and a number of those will work on DSM's world-beating methane-reducing feed additive for cattle, BOVA, showing the exciting opportunities that young people are offered. In her motion in speech, Pam Gosal said that she notes with concern the belief that apprenticeships are sometimes seen as a lesser career path when compared to university, and she was right to do so. Several young people I met were surprised to discover through the work of Skills Development Scotland in their personal experience that it can be just as successful completing an apprenticeship as they would be going to university. They all said that this is not what their teachers told them when at school, where it was made clear that anything less than university would be second best. The positive attitude of apprentices highlighted how important it is for Skills Development Scotland to engage directly with schools, parents and young people to change this misguided perception. More employers should also be encouraged to adopt work-based learning and ensure that young people know that university is not the only pathway after leaving school. I am delighted that DSM has been nominated for a large employer of the year at tomorrow's Scottish Apprenticeship Awards for its commitment to increase apprenticeship opportunities and provide exciting, secure and enduring careers for our young people. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the employers in Cunningham North and across Scotland at higher apprenticeships and look forward to seeing the numbers grow even further as Scotland recovers from the pandemic. I am pleased to speak in this debate to acknowledge the Scottish Apprenticeship Week 2022, and I thank my colleague Pam Gosal for bringing it to the chamber. It is always a pleasure to mark the success of an initiative that certainly wasn't around during my school days, admittedly that was more than a few years ago. At that time, and in fact, not so long ago, if you did not shine academically, you were likely to be told by the teacher, you won't amount to anything, you can forget about a career. Imagine the damage that did to so many young people consigned to the scrap heap at such an early age. Thankfully, these days are over and the Scottish Apprenticeship's game plays a vital role in supporting youngsters, employers and the economy. Yesterday, I had the pleasure of visiting an amazing early years facility in my constituency in Bearsden, Lullaby Lane Nursery, to present a certificate to Chloe Winning, who recently completed her apprenticeship at the SPQ in social services children and young people. Chloe joined Lullaby Nursery straight from school and is thrived in the vocational learning environment. It was clear to see that she was loving every minute of her job. Lullaby Lane Nursery, who also has a facility in MoGuy, is an exceptional business model that I would love to see replicated throughout Scotland. Director Pauline Scott, co-owner and director of Tigers UK, who may be known to some of you, and nursery manager Donna Adams offer a bright area and very much home-from-home attachment-based nursery. Outdoor and play-based learning can account for up to 80 per cent of time spent at the nursery and needless to say, the children love getting muddy. During the early stages of the pandemic, the nursery was open to provide care for the children of essential workers, then to help provide stability and interaction for all the children at the earliest possibility. A living wage employer, there are 16 modern apprentices with the company currently training on various frameworks, mainly social services, children and young people. With a previous modern apprentice of the year winner coming from the Bearsden site, Lullaby are nominated this year for SME employer of the year for the Scottish apprenticeship awards. Two other employees are previous winners of apprentices of the year, so they are definitely doing something right. Pauline told me of the energy and fresh ideas that young people bring to the richness of the nursery experience. The benefits are so much more than a taster of a potential career in childcare. As much of the hands-on coaching and reflection can be applied to different career aspirations, such as law or accountancy, with transferable skills such as understanding brain development, psychology, family dynamics, empathy and problem solving. Kirkantiller High School works in partnership with Tigers to place senior school pupils in those foundation apprenticeships, offering a blended learning approach for senior face pupils alongside the traditional high school qualifications. Many young people do not learn by listening. They need hands-on practical experience, and that is why apprenticeships are so important. We now know that there are different ways of learning of upskilling young people who go on to have fulfilling jobs and a happy life. Pauline Scott puts it very well when she says, first, to start with gaining trust, building a relationship with the young person, and then comes the training and education. It really is not rocket science, it is common sense psychology, and it is about mutual respect between a young person and their mentor or trainer. I welcome all the commitment that employers give to Scottish Apprenticeship Week and particularly congratulate all those young people who have committed to the scheme and wish them well in their future careers. Thank you very much indeed. Ms Mackay and I call Martin. We are peeled to be followed by Paul McLean in for around four minutes. I am very grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I congratulate Pam Gosall on leading a very effective and efficient first members debate this evening and with an excellent speech. It was a great pleasure to follow Rona Mackay, who has, of course, talked about the role that apprenticeships or one apprenticeships play amongst our young people with regard to nursery and young care services. This Scottish Apprenticeship Week shines a light on that vital role apprenticeships do play in supporting people, employers and the economy. Scottish Apprenticeship is providing the chance for businesses to adapt, sustain and indeed strengthen their business, but also providing the chance for our young people and not so young people to acquire skills and experience to underpin the future for themselves and their family. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I thank Mr Whitfield for giving away. Will he take this opportunity to join me in congratulating young apprentices across East Lothian and the South of Scotland for their commitment and dedication, and in particular to inspirational young apprentices that I met yesterday, Lewis Murphy and Hailey Goldthorpe, who are both with Openreach and who are helping East Lothian families and families across the South of Scotland to connect to a full fibre broadband? I am more than happy to extend my congratulations and I hope that their future careers are great both to those apprentices, but also to all of the apprentices across both East Lothian and the South of Scotland who do so much, who frustrate some people at work by turning up ever so slightly late at the beginning of their apprenticeships, who forget their safety boots, occasionally even do forget their hard hats, but by the end of their apprenticeships are not apprentices anymore, but skilled operatives who understand what work is, who understand what they need to do to satisfy their employers of what they can do and make sure that our whole society goes forward in a much more safe and productive way. Here in Scotland, of course, we have three types, the Foundation, Modern and Graduate Apprenticeship, and that is very important because we are developing the model of apprenticeship here in Scotland. As Pam says, there is a great need for that as the work that is coming down the line, many do not have yet apprenticeship pathways of the forestry commission, where there are pathways within the forest itself, but that pathway falls apart as we look at timber production and the use of timber going on into the future. I want to make mention, as many speakers have done today, about their visit to see an apprentice. I have the great pleasure of going to Macmillan-Coppersmith and Fabricapers Ltd in Preston Pans in East Lothian, the great advantage being that I did not need to take my car, I could stroll from my house, and to step into a huge warehouse that so many people have walked past and wondered what is going on, but inside I was delighted to see the treasure of all treasures as whiskey stills. For this is the company that makes the whiskey and spirit stills that go around Scotland, around the United Kingdom and indeed around the world, to see where copper is hammered from a flat plate into a beautiful spherical shape, to see where stainless steel and copper is welded together, and to see where brass and copper is welded together. Now for those of in-initiated, these two metals melted at very different temperatures and the mess that an ignorant MSP can make with a welding torch led them not to give me the welding torch but to give me a hammer and my great apologies to the apprentice who I ruined almost six weeks of work making the beautiful swan head of his still as I whacked into it. I felt as I did as a teacher but the other way round when he looked at me gently shook his head turned around and said to his boss he'd make it better but it might take some time but I would like to point out to Ewan raise Ewan in the chamber because he guided me around the factory with calm explanations to my very silly questions. I'm a cell manager he said I said oh a cell manager what does a cell manager do and he looked at me with sympathy and said well I take care of 12 people a man not a boy but a man toward the end of his apprenticeship who looks after the health and safety of other apprentices and workers a man at the end of his apprenticeship who knows the skills that are needed skills that are hundreds of years old in a company that is so proud to display its founders apprenticeship papers from all those years ago and so to those apprentices I say thank you thank you for the magic that they showed me thank you to the magic that they brought by explaining to me that school is not everything I know that explaining to me that actually education is not just going to university it is having the privilege to sit with a craftsman and move from someone who knows nothing to at the end of the journey a craftsman themselves so at this week during apprenticeship week I thank all of the apprentices the employers but also I look forward because through these apprentices through these skills there is a better feature for Scotland and I saw it yesterday thank you Deputy Presiding Officer thank you mr Whitfield a timely reminder that not everybody is geared towards making a success of an apprenticeship there I think Paul MacLennan to be followed by Jamie Halkerdown Johnson around four minutes thank you thank you Deputy Presiding Officer and kind of first of all thank Pam Goslaw for bringing forward this this motion today enjoying the rest of the chamber and celebrating Scottish apprenticeship we can follow in Martin Whitfield in your statement there Deputy Presiding Officer I have a visit to a factory on Friday it's making me incredibly nervous now that I don't touch anything just stand back and watch I think so so I think I think as we all said apprenticeships are an integral part of our strategy to train a new workforce and build stable and long-term career paths providing essential skills and valuable training between April and December last year there were 419 more than apprentice apprentices in training in East London 66% of which were aged between 16 and 24 modern apprenticeships play a key role in our school leavers positive destination rate and it's 96% in my constituency thank you Deputy Presiding Officer does the member share my sense of regret that the decommissioning of Tornes power station and the closure of the nuclear industry in Scotland will effectively mean that East Lothian has five fewer skilled apprenticeships through the EDF apprenticeship scheme where people went on to high-paid and high-skilled jobs in the nuclear energy sector Paul McLennon yeah thank you Deputy Presiding Officer I think obviously that we discussed that in the Tornes debate a few weeks ago as he knows I've spoken to the station manager he's confident that every single person in that position at the moment will be moved on as it was in Hunterston in that particular case so I think he's confident that these jobs will be moved on to within the EDF itself around 43,000 apprenticeships in jobs in Scotland and work learning are based across Scotland and I think one of the key things about apprenticeships also as well as it adds companies that increases productivity by 83% improves staff morale by 79% and improves staff retention by 72% and I think some of the research also showed the most common reasons for employer supporting apprenticeships where as well to provide young people with opportunities obviously to train workers and core skills and I'll touch on that later on and to provide industry experience and obviously I think that the scot for employers apprentices dot scot for employers also as the website advertises apprenticeships for free it has 800,000 visits a year so it's obviously well used and it has up to 700 plus live apprenticeship vacancies every month just last week the First Minister spoke of NHS apprenticeships their importance and their crucial role in addressing skills gap in the health service a new three and a half million pounds Scottish Government program will see 150 apprenticeship pharmacy technicians trained and recruited across Scotland and again I think that that's that's going to be critical in addressing this issue when within East Lothian we're facing staff and labour skills shortages in sectors such as renewables food drink and drink sector and agriculture currently social services and construction of the highest number of apprenticeships within the constituency apprenticeships are key in addressing these shortages not only this our economic revival and pandemic recovery is reliant on apprenticeships and similar opportunities but as we progress through our recovery we must push this further must make an effort to encourage businesses and they're doing well at the moment to take on the advantage of this opportunity to apprenticeships provide this week I'm visiting Hadfab in my constituency an engineering company which has a great experience and knowledge of working with apprenticeships Hadfab have some great opportunities working with renewable sector in the months and years ahead and I think I mentioned in the tornest debate last week of a meeting coming up on 18th with many of the renewable sector operators in East Lothian and okay and I think there's many many opportunities in terms of apprenticeships in that regard now through the young persons guarantee in the apprenticeship employer grant the government is ensuring an app around approach and no one speaking with careers advisors in the constituency we've heard that the free bus travel for under 22s has the potential to fuel young people's access to apprenticeships and aid employment opportunities for young people especially in rural areas the change of the modern apprenticeships adds a rural supplement for training providers and recognition of additional cost of rural delivery shows that government has taken a truly nationwide approach and I'm aware that NFU are working up a skill strategy paper to look at the issues around about agricultural and forestry these are key sectors for rural communities in East Lothian due to the fact that there are serious labour shortages in this regard we should be looking at modular opportunities working with local colleges to offer as an extensive suite of opportunities for school labour and others so in conclusion I want to celebrate all the apprenticeships in East Lothian and beyond and in current school leavers out there to consider their local apprenticeships as they go forward to consider their future and ask businesses to review their apprenticeship offerings and consider whether a scope for more apprenticeships are a valuable opportunity that should not pass by thank you thank you very much Mr McLennan I now call on Jamie Hawker-Johnson who will be followed by Graham Bay for around four minutes Mr Hawker-Johnson thank you deputy Presiding officer today is a good reminder of the very positive role members debates in this chamber can play something which has suffered during the pandemic when the business of parliament was so severely disrupted and having previously been the proposer a number of apprenticeship week debates over the years it's great to see my colleague Pam Gotall take up the mantle and can I thank her for bringing this forward apprenticeship week has always been a great opportunity to show what apprenticeships are achieving and to highlight the key role they play not only in skills based learning but in our economy too it was in 1994 that the modern apprentice apprenticeship era took hold in the UK taking an ancient concept and renewing it to adapt to the conditions of our time and that form apprenticeships will soon celebrate their 30th birthday a milestone but also an opportunity to see decades of progress which has always enjoyed wide support across this chamber yet like so much of what we find ourselves discussing these days apprenticeships have taken a hit from Covid-19 after years of slow but steady growth the modern apprenticeship starts has taken a nosedive over the pandemic that's not a positive place to find ourselves but is sadly reflective of the impact that this situation has had on education and opportunity here in scotland of course yeah i'm the mother of a fourth year apprentice joiner who at the height of the pandemic with countless apprentices all across the country were actually working with those front line services and keeping our void properties being turned around people being removed from home the situation and to properties i wonder if you would celebrate those apprentices who actually responded in such a fantastic way across the country in the front line to me halker joins i absolutely would there's been a huge amount of pressures i'll i'll come to it a little bit later on some apprenticeship but a lot of have taken the opportunity to stand up and play an absolutely vital role and can i thank them and all of them across scotland for the role that they played i think that's a really good point recovery must be the priority and it can be either fast or slow depending on how much resource the Scottish government are prepared to commit and i hope the minister will be able to go into some detail on this point we do not want to find ourselves in years to come looking back with fully at 2019 as some sort of better times for Scottish apprenticeships and i said before in this chamber that many businesses have found themselves in more precarious positions in pre 2020 and so if we're to ensure a large and diverse group of apprenticeship providers we must ensure that business is supported and that confidence can return although we often think of the two new strands of apprenticeships foundation and graduate both now are settled into the landscape foundation apprenticeships are a particular area of interest giving young people a great opportunity to experience the sort of practical approach that apprenticeships can provide unsurprisingly these two have seen disruption over the last two years with sizable numbers of participants unable to complete their courses and i welcome that some of the reassurance that some reassurance has been given to this cohort that their work will be recognised through lessons of recognition while it's also to be commended that all 32 local authorities are now involved in foundation apprenticeship delivery the most recent figures by the Scottish government show that 10 percent of state secondaries are still not engaged with the scheme and that falls short of where we should hope to be growth has also seemed sometimes unbalanced we've seen two social services frameworks expand at pace but there is an enormous gender divide here meanwhile on the other side of the coin many traditional stem based frameworks remain male dominated around nine and ten participants choice has also remains a question as with subject choice in schools we should be looking to ensure not just that foundation apprenticeships are widely available but the whole breadth of learning is reflected across scotland one other element i'd like to consider is rurality for regions like the highlands and islands in particular there must be an increasing focus on scaling and reskilling in our rural economy while there have been positive steps in recognizing rural based apprenticeships demographic changes mean that these efforts must be upscaled considerably while conditions have changed this is not a problem that has been unforeseen for decades rural businesses and trades have struggled to attract new entrants government support in this area has been too often piecemeal and pushed problems further down the line if we want to mend some of the regional inequalities within scotland and our economy apprenticeships in these sectors are a vital tool to achieve it deputy presiding officer i am pleased once again to be able to mark apprenticeship week and to recognize the great work of apprentices apprentices who have often had to achieve under incredibly challenging circumstances there is a road ahead to ensure that apprenticeships and the opportunity they provide are available and accessible to all let's hope that 2022 can bring some change that is necessary thank you very much indeed sir mr johnson i now call on game day to be followed by Stephanie gallan and again four minutes instead one of the facets of members debates is the opportunity they provide for all of us to indulge in a little parochialism i mentioned that not by way of criticism far from it not least of all because i'm going to focus my contribution on the angus south constituency that i represent specifically i want to note to him not for the first time the work of an organisation which over the approaching 11 years i've served in the scottish parliament i've highlighted both in this place and via hosting visits to it by ministers including jimmy headburn and our former Presiding Officer to Sir Marwick and of course speaking about the angus training group which has been located in our broth for the past 56 years during which time it has produced an excessive 2000 engineering apprentices for a range of northeast firms this is a non-profit making organisation supported by its member companies and skills development scottland its role in the delivery of modern apprenticeships has been a constant during my tenure as the local MSP that's not to say that it's not faced its challenges because it has but 80g has shown itself to be both nothing if not resilient and capable of adapting to the evolving nature of a changing world indeed currently the organisation is engaged in a refresh of its offering in a number of areas including robotics and automation as i say it has faced its challenges especially following the oil price slump of a few years ago and then again from the pandemic the caffron street centre that the group operates from is capable of hosting 75 apprentices on the back of the slump it was training just 12 new stars by 2017-18 that had bounced back a little to 23 and the following two years numbers had climbed back into the mid 30s but then came the pandemic and an anticipated intake of 50 plus translated into just 12 modern apprentices difficult times but 80g secured a contract for 30 pathway apprentices and they built back from there indeed feedback from employers suggested that the upcoming intake could rise to 48 to 45 ma's and at 80g you're very i did wonder which half of the styler in walldorf double act would be getting to their feet and i give way to mr walldorf steven care well that's a compliment and i'm trying to work out which one was which in the muppets but i can't remember can i can i ask grim day and welcome him to the speech by the way can i ask him if he agrees that every penny of the apprenticeship levy raised in scotland should be spent on apprenticeships grim day it is regrettable presiding officer that mr kerr spends his time in members business and he does this regularly simply try to snipe at the government i would invite him as many of his colleagues have done to actually fashion a speech so we four minutes after all and make a more positive contribution to these occasions um presiding officer 80g are very much proactive in seeking out the modern apprentices of tomorrow indeed over the course of the last fortnight they are instructors of visited cernisti high school for for academy morgan academy and just today menthros academy seeking to entice local youngsters into an engineering career through the modern apprenticeship route i hope that offers positive evidence that what the motion calls for around raising awareness of apprenticeship opportunities is already taking place in the engineering space at least in angus but there is one area where 80g have continued continued to struggle and that's in recruiting young women engineering ma's and on this international women's day that's an issue we need to reflect upon over the past decade i can think of just one occasion indeed of course thank you for the intervention just on that do you believe that basically the scotish government need to do much more to promote more females into male dominated roles in light with international women's day today there's no doubt that the scotish government has a part to play in this but i would contend and i think she would probably agree with us it's wider than that it is about the education system it's about society because this is a societal problem the kind of fashioning of gender stereotypes that's not a job for girls is a big problem in our society and we need to start tackling that collectively i would say as a simple thing officer i've chatted to some of the the young women who have taken up the opportunity although i can think of only one occasion where more than two female apprenticeships have been part of any one and two there was a small cohort from Aberdeen who found their way to abroad via a programme run through i think it was the college in Aberdeen which actively encouraged female entry into engineering but in the main the female apprentices i've met had identified engineering as a career path purely through family links i think this is something we should all give us all this food for thought the engineering workforce of the future must be better gender balanced clearly a great deal more work needs to be done to make that happen i would be keen to hear from the minister and summon up just what renewed attempts to address this long-standing issue of being made but i reiterate this is a societal issue it's not about the minister and it's not about the government but i don't want to wind up on a negative note for there is overwhelmingly much to celebrate about the modern apprenticeship programme angus training group may be flag bearers in my neck and woos but they're not alone in modern apprenticeship delivery and i'm pleased to see the numbers in angus continue beginning to rise again back to the kind of numbers they were pre-pandemic i conclude by thanking palm gozel for bringing forward this motion and allowing us to showcase the positive benefits of the modern apprenticeship programme scotland wide and in angus sound thank you very much mr day i would gently discourage members from name calling other members i appreciate it was not the most barbed of comments but nevertheless i'm sure it's not a warning i would need to give our next speaker who's Stephanie Callan who was the last speaker in the open debate with Callan around four minutes please thank you president officer i'll take care not to do that and congratulations also to palm gozel for bringing our very first members debate to the chamber apprenticeship week is certainly a chance to celebrate scotland's apprentices and the businesses that support and nurture them as we've heard the theme of this year's celebration is apprenticeships working and i want to focus my speech like many others and demonstrating why apprenticeships work not through a statistical lens but through personal stories and insights. President officer it seems that MSPs were out in force yesterday and i'm absolutely no different and my visit was to saltire facilities management in my own constituency. Saltire are a language for success story providing boilers renewable heating and electrical services to the community and throughout its history providing apprenticeships to local people has been absolutely at the heart of saltire's workforce strategy so we're better to get informed on why the work than from the apprentices themselves. So yesterday I met Connor, Ewan, Jonathan and Liam for young tradesmen full of enthusiasm about their experience and more importantly about choosing to follow their apprenticeship route from school. Their stories are the best marketing tool for apprenticeships and their insights are the best signposts for where we must do better as a society as policy makers and as educators. These four articulate intelligent young men all made personal choices to become apprentices. They knew that this path was what they wanted to do and they're all proud of their decisions. They see themselves as following an equally valid and reputable path to those that enter university and they were all supported by their families like Stephen Kerr. Amongst their peers at school they were however in the significant minority, with most friends choosing university over apprenticeships. Indeed I really did get the impression that their friends never truly contemplated an apprenticeship. It was clear from the anecdotes provided yesterday that too many families and schools still view apprenticeships as a less valuable, less marketable and less successful choice. The group that I met yesterday loved their jobs, they enjoyed the mix of work and learning, they enjoyed the human and technical contact, they enjoyed their enumeration and they enjoyed having their weekends free to socialise with their friends and they loved the security that comes with an almost guaranteed job at the conclusion of their apprenticeship. Yet none of that same group felt particularly supported or encouraged by their schools to follow the apprenticeship path. It may be that's something the minister could pick up on in his closing. There were all clear that schools needed to become far more informed about foundation and modern apprenticeships. They suggested schools offer students class time to set out what different apprenticeships offer and employers in schools needed to work more closely together to promote apprenticeship opportunities within the community. Apprenticeships work because people are earning while they are learning. They work because the opportunities directly respond to where the economy needs the skills. Apprenticeships not only work on an economic level, they also work in a social and on a community level too. The saltire apprentices I met were caring, compassionate and confident. These trade apprentices entered between six and eight houses per day, engaging with people that they've never met before, talking with people who are often socially isolated, and those young men really valued those conversations and interactions. Apprenticeships create good citizens. We should never underestimate their benefit to our local communities. As we emerge from the pandemic and work towards net zero, the skill requirements for our future workforce must urgently adapt. Labour shortages in key industries exacerbated by Brexit mean that policy makers and educators need to fully harness the power apprenticeships can provide. Apprenticeships are a fundamental key to ensuring Scotland has the necessary skills for a rapidly changing employment landscape and to ensure that we create the fairer greener economy that Scotland seeks. In closing, the Scottish Government has demonstrated its commitment to increasing the number of apprenticeships in Scotland, and it is incumbent on us, all of us, as a society, to ensure that they are encouraged and respected. Whether it is housing, healthcare or hospitality, we must cherish, celebrate and promote this crucial part that apprenticeships will play in Scotland's economic future. Apprenticeships do work. I am sure that it will not be long before you come to know and love Mr Kerr and his interventions. I call the minister to respond to the debate. I think that we can lay the blame firmly and squarely at Mr Day's door for Ms Callahan's misremembering and giving he misnamed Mr Kerr. I can remember his name. I think that Stephen Waldoff was probably what caused the problems there. Can I begin by joining others in thanking Pam Gosall for bringing her motion on Scottish Apprenticeship week for debate? I had not realised that it was my first member's debate. I think that it was a very good choice. As Jamie Halcro Johnston mentioned, he used to bring this for debate each year. I think that it is right that we have this debate to mark across his apprenticeship every year. One of the great joys that I have in the activity that I undertake in my ministerial role—indeed, in previous ministerial roles—is the ability to meet and engage with apprentices who are engaged in work-based learning. You can tell that it is a life-changing opportunity for them. It is right that we recognise that by having this debate. I thank other members for the various contributions that they have made to it. I would also like to join Pam Gosall in commending the significant amount of work that Skills Development Scotland and other partners mentioned to support the range of activity that takes place across the course of the week, not least to support those members with the various visits that have been undertaken or those that will be undertaken over the course of the rest of the week. I thank those members for the visits that they have undertaken. Even Martin Whitfield and the chaos that he seemed to unleash at his visit is something that I would commend to every single member of this place to engage in such a visit, because it is only through that process of engaging with apprentices and their employers that you can really understand and see the first-hand difference that it makes to both. I will certainly give way to Mr Kerr, whose name I can remember. I thank the minister for remembering my name, but I also pay tribute to his commitment to the modern apprenticeship across Scotland. The first time I ever met the minister was at Fourth Valley College, and that brings me to the evidence that has been presented. There are at least two and a half other members of the education committee present in the chamber at the moment. Evidence that has been presented to our committee suggests that College of Scotland is deeply concerned about the levels of cuts that it will suffer as a result of this year's budget allocations. Will the minister comment, please, on their concerns, which are well-founded? It is not rumour, it is not a political point scoring, and they are deeply concerned about that and the impact it will have on apprenticeships across Scotland? I can give you the time back here. The first thing that I would say, incidentally, is that the vast majority of apprenticeships are funded through Skills Development Scotland rather than through the budget line allocated for colleges, which relates to their core activity. There is a little, but it is in the main, through a different budget line. That is really just for clarity and information for the chamber. In relation to the point that he makes about college budgets, there are a couple of things that I would say in the first instance. We have, of course, convener of the finance committee, who would be able to testify to this, because I am sure that he and other members of that committee have heard directly from the Scottish Fiscal Commission that the Scottish Government this year is facing a 5.2 per cent cut in real terms to its overall budget—some £3.7 billion less—to expend this year than we did last year. That is the challenge that we face. Against that backdrop, I am absolutely committed to working with Colleges Scotland and, through the funding council, to make sure that we collectively respond to the economic and societal imperatives that we have through colleges that are engaging with their local communities, local economies, local employers and local citizens, to make sure that they are responsive and doing the great work that they always undertake. I am very good for the minister giving way. On this, of course, International Women's Day, wouldn't it be right to also agree to try and narrow the gap between the 40-60 split between male-female apprentices and aim for a 50-50 split going forward? I absolutely would be. That was something that I was going to pick up on later, because Graham Day made it at this point. We do have a challenge in that regard. Mr Day was quite right to make the point that we are dealing with, and I know that Mr Whitfield and other members will recognise us. We are dealing with deeply ingrained societal attitudes that have been inbuilt over generations. It is not easy to undo that, but it is a task that we must set ourselves and respond to. Through our developing young workforce activity, we are seeking to make sure that we are challenging gender perceptions about what different genders do in terms of occupations. Through the Scottish Pensioners Advisory Board and its gender commission, we are waiting to see the recommendations that they make. Through our gender pay gap action plan that I was responsible for developing in my last ministerial, we will take a range of action to overcome some of those barriers. I want to underline again that this is a fantastic opportunity to celebrate the achievements of apprentices and the system that we have. I want to pick up on the challenges that we have in relation to gender participation, which is a significant challenge. We also have challenges around parity of esteem. That, again, is one that I am absolutely committed to, respond to Pam Goswell, Stephanie Callaghan and Kenny Gibson and others at this point. There is a misperception that somehow undertaking an apprenticeship is not as a higher standard as undertaking some other form of post-school qualification. That is something that we need to tackle head on, because that fundamentally is not the case. I will give way in a wee second, but I just wanted to make the point, and it picks up on Graham Day's point earlier, one of the—I know that there is more to life, of course, than what a person might earn at the end of their qualifications, but it is a factor for some folk. When I undertook the visit to Angus training group with Mr Day, I was told by that training group that the young engineers they were training will be earning significantly—I will save their blushes by saying the precise figure, but they will be earning significantly in excess of median earnings by age 21. That is one measurement that shows the benefit of undertaking an apprenticeship. I will give way to Pam Gwsoff. I thank the minister for giving me an intervention. Today, I mentioned earlier in my speech that in our Equalities and Human Rights Committee, it was highlighted the accessibility for disabled people. I believe that apprenticeships are there for everybody. Yes, we talked about gender, but in relation to disability, how can we help more people to access apprenticeships? That was brought up from the disabled support groups today. That is again another area through Skills Development Scotland's equality action plan that we have had a concerted focus on. I do not have the precise figures from previous years before me. I know that the latest figures for the full year that we have them available for was that around 12.8 per cent of modern apprenticeship starts had a known self-identified, with an impairment health condition or learning difficulty. That is significantly up on where we were before. We have made improvements in that regard, but there is again much as I made the point in responding to Mr Whipfield much more to be done and Ms Gwsoff has been assured that we are committed to that end. I will probably extend the view of patients enough, but let me quickly conclude by saying that Mr Halcro Johnston was concerned that we might look back at 2019 as the hawed land. He was right to recognise—I must say that some of his colleagues on those benches have not always recognised—that Covid-19 was inevitably going to have an impact on apprenticeship starts. They have. We saw that with a significant fall in the last full year before Covid hit. When we were on track to make our 30,000 target, it has had an impact. If you look at the latest figures that we are seeing by the end of Q3 this year—nearly twice as many as we saw last year—we are on the road to recovery. There is more to be done, but I can assure him that we will not be looking back at that period as the hawed land, because I still have great ambitions for apprenticeships. We are going to work back towards that 30,000 target. That is a silent reminder of the value of apprenticeships year-round, not just in this Scottish apprenticeship week. Thank you very much. Minister, to the roll call of young apprentices we have heard this evening, can I add the name of Ryan, a young apprentice, an electrician at artist Merrimans, who was working at Highland Park yesterday. With that, I conclude the debate and close this meeting of Parliament.