 Well, what is design thinking? And to me, very simply put, is designing anything, to me literally anything, from the user's point of view. Because I've tried it from other points of views. But putting it within the user's shoe is ultimately one way you could make sure, I guess, it actually resonates with the user. I might also add, one other thing, sorry, design thinking should really be considered as design doing, if we talk about, especially within the Asian market context, because so much of it, with the speed. Again, we talk about speed of development. We talk about what people expect. People expect the thinking to translate into doing very quickly. So to me, design thinking needs to evolve into design doing very quickly. Try first, try fast, fail fast.