 Okay, does it say live for you? Mm-hmm Cool, then we're live So, yeah, we're here today to talk about Empire of Silence by Chris. It's rocky. All right, Christopher. Rocky. Oh, yeah Okay, cuz I was I think you're the one that told me that he pronounces it like that cuz I looked at this name and I was like Okay, so I'm going if you're wrong about this, it's your fault It's Okay, um, yeah, I well I just got the American one because of looking at yours and wanting it but um, yeah, I Have had like I've had the book not this edition for a while And it's just not been like a priority because that you know, there's there's so many books to read So thank you for hauling it and and pushing it up on my TBR So what is the the other version look like do you have the hardcover? Yeah, go find it. It's right here This is the UK one. Yeah Originally, I thought I like this better But the more I look at this cuz like I don't know I feel like this one looks less Corny if that's the right word, you know, like it doesn't look so much like but then the more I looked at this more I like loved the like slight cheese of it Plus honestly like a pair of sounds like I think I like this cover better But for the second and third books, the US covers are so cool. Yeah, that's what people are here for to hear our assessment And that wraps up the book good covers Basically, I'm relieved that a bunch of pretty books that I ordered without having read them I Yeah, so we have some consensus US covers are are better. Yeah Are nice like if I wouldn't complain if those are the only covers available like they're nice But you as yeah us wins. I think especially with all of them together Yep All right, so the book though. I Believe it five stars. I did as well. Yep It was pretty great. Uh, I don't I don't know exactly do it Let's I guess be like spoiler free for a little bit probably. Yeah, I mean I kind of warn people they'll be spoilers, but yeah Just in case let's start Uh, so I mean, where do you want to start just like do we need to explain what the book is? Do you want to go into like? Where you want to start? I think I mean, yeah, I mean what it is. It's probably good like uh I never even read the book jackets of books that I pick up. I'm just like Oh It's on the inside but basically because chris varacchio has a channel on youtube too and he explains it as like Because it's not a spoiler like this guy's already the villain of the universe. It's he explains it as like what if uh And it could be coming vader was the right thing to do But that's like kind of vague and like you don't really understand what exactly that means You're like why he goes down that path But like he's telling you the story of his life Sort of in the in the name of like sort of like the name of the wind or other books where they're kind of like Dresden files even where he's like telling you like things that happen um And you don't really you have to like pick up the pieces as like how he became the evil Conquering bad guy of the universe, which we haven't really seen the whole lot of he seems like a pretty nice guy Um, it is answer this it is sci-fi It's a good sci-fi fantasy blend though. It's yeah But I mean if you had to like firmly say is this sci-fi or fantasy then you would say I mean it's spaceships and aliens So it's sci-fi, but I'm the same way with like when I was asking I asked Pierce Brown what red rising was and he said it's my fantasy. So Which is the good like Into like I think if you like red rising you would like empire of silence because it's not a ripoff of it Anyway, but the vibe of it. Yeah, he is very reminiscent of it That gladiator I got good bible because there's literally an entire coliseum plot Well, I think I mean having basically sci-fi that is heavily influenced and inspired by like Rome Is like that's what red rising is and that's kind of what this is. So like yeah A lot of the same vibes a lot of dune vibes just from like the tech and sort of like how certain things are written and the fact that there's like You know ingredients or things that the entire universe wants kind of like the spice um But yeah, I mean the everything was just kind of awesome about this and just from like the general premise obviously like so you're starting with Hadrian as An older team. I always forget how old people are in these books But it's like it's him and the brother Nebulous thing because they're like modified to our like So you're like you're like 20, but you're like 200, but you're like Yeah, because they're they're built in a lab basically so they're not even really that all that human Yeah, I love the expression they use because like they don't like humans don't even like Produce like reproduce like naturally anymore. Like they refer to it as like the day you were decanted is like when you were Oh like, yeah Yep, nice little piece. This is port pour one out. Nope. There's our kid Like it's a way to make it sound fancy, but also clinical It kind of reminded me of like how in the matrix how they like come out of those like pods Gross probably is how it is I did just read the first uh The bind up of the first two books in the book of the new sun by gene wolf the shadow and claw after there's a lot of Parallels there too I'm gonna say so I know Pierce brown has said that he's influenced by that and like he named several after the main character But honestly like other than just sort of like vaguely general things like I don't really see a ton of parallels But this reminded me a lot more or like uh, again, not in a rip-off way But like the kind of him telling his story from the future and telling you how he became someone much more powerful with like Pothemir, whatever like that was very remind like very much reminded me of uh Shadow and claw see I haven't read that yet, but I've heard those books are like super confusing and hard to get into They are but like I feel like In a really different way from broken earth, but I feel like the confusion is kind of Intentional, you know what I mean? Yeah, you're not it's not that you have to pick up on everything as you go Like part of the immersion is being kind of like whoa, what even is this world? Like yeah, and then you can go back and and pick it up more and more as you go But it's like intentionally kind of You feel kind of the alieness and lostness on Make sense. All right. So back to the previous thing when we were mentioning everything that this is compared to And how it's not a rip-off. Let's let's address that real quick So I have not read name of the wind. Is this a rip-off name of the wind? No, not at all Again, it's a lot more to me like shadow and claw and I wouldn't say it's a rip-off of that But it's more like that than it is like Name of the wind it's really nothing like name of the wind Out other than like having a character tell their own story, which a lot of Yeah, I mean name of the wind probably didn't invent that storytelling mechanism either, but But yeah, I just want to clear the air there that I don't feel like this is even like the things that Like the direct parallels or or things that he pulled from like dune or red rising or like anything that's come before this It's it feels more of like a love letter or like, hey, here's what influenced me It was never like a i'm just gonna rip this off But and i'm sure it authors do that all the time Although okay, so this might be a good time to mention this and I give this five stars So obviously like I don't have a problem with it, but um There are like three things that I actually liked tabbed so that I could like Show they are like direct quotes like he must be as big a fan as I am of a movie kingdom of heaven because Uh-huh, what the orland of bloom movie with Liam Neeson? Yeah, orland of bloom's character's name is baylian one of the characters and this is named baylian And then there's two quotes in it that like because I've seen that movie a lot And I have like the quotes in my head and as soon as the character said them I was like that's literally so like Uh, there's a part where he says um I would rather talk with men than kill them um and in kingdom of heaven Jeremy iron says I would rather live with men than kill them and that is why you're alive and then later Um when that guy's giving him the sword And I'm going to go back to my home world and you know what I'm going to say and he's like And your quality will be known in judd and on the battlefields of our war before ever you find yourselves there And in kingdom of heaven like the sarasen noble says your quality will be known among your enemies before ever you meet them I was like that's literally There you go We found the culprit this this book is just kingdom of heaven. There you go. Yeah, but in space But that was like at that It was also because it was like within like pages of each other like those two things happen at the very end like And I was like Wait a minute, but it's not like this whole book was okay. I was like going along going along interesting influences in the very end I was like That is literally Yeah I mean, I I don't think Yeah, I'm not criticizing it saying he's just ripping it off, but like I couldn't help noticing that Yeah, that's pretty good um What are well well Rocky was yeah, I do think I mean apart from like I don't know if we can credit him with those two quotes But other everything else i'm not normally like a Pro snob or like really pay all that much attention to it just because I haven't been back to reading that much But like I could tell right away Just comparatively to like other whether it be sanderson or or even john glenn where it's like it's super direct and like to the point like Reading that and then reading robin hobb and then reading this I feel like it's such a good blend of like Beautiful writing when needed and straightforward and direct when needed and I mean for this being his first book Like that's just kind of incredible because his writing style was amazing. I guess just yeah, he's got away with words It's it's great. Yeah, and it felt like it um For me it it struck that balance between Feeling epic without like being a parody of itself We're like sometimes authors make things just you can tell they think this is so epic and you're like, okay, buddy Telling it down whereas maybe it helped also that like and then me that's why he did it this way But it worked where characters would uh, you know say art like are you why are you being so dramatic? Are you literally like And he's like yes, I'm freaking that dramatic He literally snaps back at the whole point. He's like, you know what? Yes. Have you met me? I am this dramatic So maybe like that is what helps to mitigate it is that it called itself out on that all the time He's kind of like winking at the camera, right? Like every time somebody was just like hadrian, why are you this way? He's like because that's who I am like That's what you get Yeah, and I feel like I mean that's kind of also what reminded me of red rising is because red rising Actually, red rising might not occasionally calling itself out on its own Over dramaticness, but I mean darrow is also that way where he's like over dramatic about things I guess is somewhat self aware about that or it gets he doesn't get called out for being dramatic But like other characters are like, are you serious right now dude? Like can you not? So you had mentioned before that the the red rising comparisons though you said it was as if red rising was written by Who it was you like roker or who did you think? Oh, yeah I felt because I felt like uh The main character here is like a gold and it feels like if red rising was the story of like roke But if roke was the son of nero because like this guy's father is very nero vibes But the character is very you know like I've studied history and I've studied literature and I'm an artist So it's like if roke was the hero of red rising Rather than who his actual child was he's just like I don't know And that I mean like his younger brother is well, he's not adrius because he's not psycho, but he's you know Not the best So what did you think about adriana's character though? um I felt like he was similar to characters like darrow in that they They themselves don't stand out that much, but they're a good vehicle for like Witnessing and experiencing the story if that makes sense like it's not like they don't have a personality But a lot of them is just like your Eyes into this and so they serve that purpose well in a balanced enough way where you get a sense for who they are And why they're doing what they're doing, but a lot of what their function is is just your Your vessel to tell a story. Yeah I don't I like to know Or a rope mix of Darrell Pretty much I mean, I feel like adrian though because obviously like you know, eventually He's going to go down the path of like being essentially a supervillain, but It's like maybe it's like I because I have no idea obviously what howling dark easy It's gonna be what five books So there's a ton of time to tell this entire story But at least empire of silence like he seems like a pretty good person throughout the book So I don't know if he's just gonna like reluctantly become a villain because like that's just a means to an end But he doesn't really want to or he's gonna go, you know Daenerys burn it all down like I'm crazy Having you say that made me think of this like if it kind of a little bit reminds me of shivers Like wanting to like be noble wanting to do the right thing but ultimately Very much not doing the right thing I don't mean Logan was kind of the same way too. It's like trying to be good for like That journey whereas like you're meeting adrian and you do meet shivers towards the beginning of that where they're they've still like They've got some ideas about what is the right way to do things and they get called out on like So you think it's moral to do this, but you draw the line here like Does that make sense? And they're like, well, no So yeah, I hadn't thought of that before but that reminds me a little bit of that I Yeah, I think adrian might be a little bit more Maybe a bit more likable than daryl. I don't know Even like a hero. I don't hate daryl Yeah, but adrian hasn't like killed billions of people Yeah Dara does some questionable things Sorry about the sirens. I live in It'll mute myself It's it's not a big deal What do you think of some of the other characters though? So like some of the uh I mean chrispen's not really in it all that much. He's kind of just little dip shit that gets beat up but I felt like uh I mean because I didn't know what to expect because I didn't even read the dust jacket I just knew that it would be a space opera that has been the name of the wind So I didn't I expected his family to be more part of it for bigger for more of the book instead of Beginning like I was really paying attention to those relationships and not that I should because they have an effect on who Hingrian is but I thought They wouldn't just be like, okay, we're done with that now now It's got to come back a little bit later right because you you kind of don't hear from his dad at all ever until Like you get the the letter like towards the Spoiler the letter so words like the later part of the book when he's just like I disown you and I was like damn Like that's that's kind of tough But yeah, I mean I get your point like the whole beginning did seem kind of short of like Sort of shipping him off on his own and then Like the whole family dynamic that like all the politicking and stuff that was going on with his family and how His dad was like you're not entitled to shit. Like I'm giving it to chrispin And I was getting like serious like Tyrion tywin vibes where Tyrion's like, well, I'm a lannister like I'm entitled to this He's like, no, you're not Like does that that relationship he was God his his dad else. There was just such a thick very near Yeah, true And then I mean his mom kind of reminded me of like A mustang type where yeah, it's like doing if like mustang was married to the girl who's her dad That's a little weird very uh once again game of thrones vibes with incest There's that too And then again, I mean, well, there's a few times like that where I thought this would be what was the thing And then it wasn't so I thought like the family stuff and the politics at home was like, okay I need to this is where we're at and then he gets shipped I was like, okay, so these people he's now with on the ship and where he's like That we're getting to know and like they're trying to get him to take his stuff off and I was like, well, they'll come in But then they just like Disappear and he gets like chucked out meets new people. Okay, so forget those people. So new people I feel a little sudden because there's just like Like he had his ring on or whatever and then going through The cleaning process or whatever they're doing and then you're just like, oh, he wakes up He's like enough some sewer basically somewhere. There's like, oh, yeah, you got dropped off. It happened all the time I'm just like, wait Because like that's how hadrian would experience it as like I went to sleep and then it was like it has been 30 years Whoopsie-dupsey Yeah So yeah, I mean, I think it was a jarring but I think intentionally Jarring and then also I didn't realize how like actively involved Alien life would be yeah it I mean That's why it's very sci-fi right? I mean, there's there's all sorts of different races alien civilizations You're definitely not just on earth. You're all over the place PSO like which kind of lost earth, haven't they they kind of don't know where it is anymore They're like, we believe that it existed But we have misplaced it But I feel like he did a really good job too with um Like to use the word I use all the time It was kind of anthropological the way he went about describing the alien life and like their language differences and how Like there's different the different pronouns they use and how Mass-stilent pronouns imply not just masculinity But like who is the leader versus who is the power and how that's unique to that language And so paying attention to when they use masculine and feminine words gives you an insight into who's in charge And like all that kind of thing that like I feel like a lot of sci-fi will be like Well, here's the anatomy of the alien but like there's no cultural differences that are probably influenced by their anatomy That I felt like it really did a good job with Yeah, for sure. And I think the the Cielson obviously play like you know, the biggest role of the races other than Humans, I guess. Well, aren't they even human like they're all lab rats Well, that's what also reminded me of red rising where like the top of society is genetically modified and super strong And long lived and then everyone on the bottom is like a red and is like Yeah Lives in normal span of years for like switch and all of his colossal buddies that are just like Peasants basically. Yeah, which is the only guess is red rising from that perspective of a gold Yeah, I mean pretty much that that's a good point because I mean Like even when Hadrian's kind of like staying undercover or He wasn't really but and his mind when he was but it's like he's a noble Essentially, which I mean the the whole like setup of that was kind of interesting that it's it's sci-fi it's obviously like Very far into the future kind of like alternate future but you still have like the medieval kind of like hierarchy and Set up like family dynamics and like you have these different like dukes and like rulers of places and the houses. Yeah And also, I mean for like Darrow is a red in disguise as a noble and is in a competition battle royale types thing Which is and then now we have this like basically a gold It's the inverse of red rising There's there's I feel like the more we talk about it the more we're gonna be like well This happened in red rising and it kind of happened here too But like too it's credit at no point did I really feel like those are just rubbing off red rising I was just like I love red rising and I also love this for similar reasons And I feel like maybe if I read more sci-fi I don't know but I feel like a lot of fantasy has a lot of similar things and I don't keep going Well, this fantasy had that because just it's just what he has So part of me is like, okay So you have you took Rome as your inspiration for your future like there's gonna be similarities But like, you know pierce brown didn't doesn't have a trademark on Rome Yeah, you did I mean like in the way that because well one since it's kind of a blend of fantasy and sci-fi I feel like that's why you can parallel it to so many other books as well But like the same thing that we do in fantasy Where we're like well, we see this all the time because they kind of you know, rehabs the same tropes over and over Sci-fi if you're reading Say again, he independently invented red rising in reverse But like if you're reading a bunch of different space operas You're probably going to see that a lot of the same kind of like structures and themes coming up Yes, like this is nothing like the expanse But there's probably similarities that you could draw if I sat down and did it but um I mean the more like space operas stuff like obviously you can parallel things to star wars or you know I mean dune is a space opera. There's a lot of dune influences like red rising is a space opera Just a side fantasy one arguably it's all just dune because all the ones you named were influenced by dune So it's still dune dune dune Everything is just due Because even in dune, I mean that whole it wasn't rome inspired But this very the idea of having a future that has returned to a very sort of Like medieval kind of like nobility and houses and like the name of your father being important and like that kind of thing But in space Yeah I mean as soon as hadrian like loses his rights. He's like, oh, I'm not even a marlowe anymore My name literally means nothing now because he has no power and they just took everything from I didn't think it was interesting in the I mean I'm always interested to see how an author is going to handle that if they're going to make references to Our history or our time or something about today be an artifact of history So like when he talked about being basically sold into marriage, you know as a brooding mare Is kind of like you're like like oh like those, you know Old earth books that mom would always read about princesses that were sold into marriage or whatever But there was a lot of times when you know, they'd bring up Our earth history or whatever Like ancient history and sometimes I'm like well, it's been so long that would they even care about roman anymore But other stuff I'm like, I guess that it stood the test of time this long why wouldn't we We named all of our like cosmos after roman stuff. So at least you'd still have that Yeah, he was pissed too and they were like, you're gonna marry my daughter. He was like, I'm not some horror of whatever I said It's just like, well, I mean you only have a choice like this is what you're doing now I wonder if some of the name of the wind comparison comes from maybe people not liking his like infatuation with uh What was her name? Well, you know the chick he's into who's assigned to the doctor. Yeah Oh god But she's kind of his denna See, I don't know. I don't know what that means I don't think you do because if you've ever heard people talk about name of the wind, do you hear people like Dena the worst But I don't know Yes, walker. Yeah, yeah That guy's got it under control Um, because like I think once again, it doesn't bother me But I feel like if I was the kind of person that hated denna I would probably also hate volka where like if you Like this main character's super into this person and you don't know why and you're like, I don't think she's that great Why is he so into her? I never care because I'm like they're into them I don't need to be important to them that they are Um, but the way he talks about volka Is kind of similar where like when he first introduces her He's like this person I didn't even know like how much they would mean to me at this point You know, it's so weird to meet them as a stranger But like they actually turned out to be someone but anyway back to the present This is me meeting her and that's kind of like the name of the wind when he's like, you know Oh my god, how do I even begin to tell you about denna? She's like, oh my god, she was okay. I guess I better just tell you nothing I say we'll do her justice and you're like, all right. Who is this amazing person who defies Like Description. Yeah I don't I like volka though. I thought she was pretty interesting and I like towards the end obviously like when they're kind of like getting their crew together or whatever to Do whatever's gonna happen in howling dark It was just cool to like have like her along and have switched along and kind of how these, you know Different characters along for the ride because switch isn't necessarily like severo But he's kind of like the little like sidekick character. It's like always there to To kind of lighten the mood or you know, say something stupid and well, okay I know he hasn't read her advising, but you know how like severo being feeling betrayed that he wasn't told The dare was a red Switch feels betrayed that he wasn't told She's like, I'm not even mad. He's like, but why don't you tell me It's like it's very severo enduro. Yeah It's just, you know, I guess it's also How much of it is like copying our story more how much is it? Just like these are the kind of connections and relationships that people find compelling. Yeah, so But so like this book changed it kept changing what I thought it was about so like leaving this book now I feel like I know where the next one is going except I'm also confident that I have no idea because I thought that I knew so many times Where this was now going to be going and then I didn't I wasn't actually sure throughout reading this one where it was even gonna end up because Like you start off with his family and that ends quickly and then like he's dumped on this planet And he just you know fighting through the coliseum. Yeah, exactly There's so many right rising for it The whole like gladiator section I loved like being in the colossal. I thought that was great But then it's like you get out of that and his whole plan obviously is like to get off world Like he needs to get out of this place because he's not he's obviously not gonna stay there and just marry whatever ditzy girl's name is It's irrelevant, but like marry her and stay on the planet and then I don't know like them shipping out to like, I guess like find the cl center like go to like where they Whatever like the meeting place was where the cl center and humans have I guess like made contact before It's like obviously a ton of shit's gonna happen between Now like leaving there and getting to that point So like I don't even know if that's gonna be like way in the future like book four or five when we have to find out Or if it's gonna be like no, we met them and now we're like in war um So I wonder like where do you think it's gonna go from the ending of this book though? Well, I feel like we're gonna keep getting more information about this, you know, the what is it the quiet the grave ones the quiet ones Whatever like I I suspect that it will remain something of a mystery for a few But I think we're gonna get more pieces where we're gonna stumble on some more Information or a new site that reveals things about them or insight like what that cold stone was Um or whatever. So wherever they're going. I'm guessing we're gonna learn more about that But I was gonna I mean about that too I felt like the author did a really good job of getting us Enough adjusted to this new status quo to where that we could be surprised by the change of status quo Presented by the this new information that humans weren't the first and only Yeah, you have to have established this well enough to where like we're learning a whole new world So everything's new information. So if by that time you're not completely adjusted to this new normal Then you just like well, this is still more new information and it's not me being like whoa But I think by that point I was with Hadrian and being like Whoa blown I was like mind blown also It's a good point that what what did you think of like how the the design of the Cielson I I felt like I couldn't get a good grasp of exactly what they look like until That uh, the one scene he like has to fight the fight that one in that room Which was then I mean I often I fight in general like I often struggle with like tech and alien life like pictures because I don't have no point Of reference for that unless they really corny point of reference in which case then I'm like, well, I'm picturing this but it's stupid um, but like Even though I couldn't like get a firm grip on how I should be picturing them like I couldn't draw a picture Well, I also draw a picture of anything, but if I could I couldn't draw a picture Um, but that said I felt again like this intense emotional investment In these scenes where like he had established some kind of rapport and trust with them by saying, you know Like this we want to you know surrender so we can stop this and he like that's my end of that And then when he's there for like when they're being tortured I was like getting teary-eyed about it about like him just that that situation where like Like he had given them his word and he's watching them get tortured and it's for no reason And he keeps saying this is no like you're not going to get information And like, you know, I love I mean, I love first law and reading about glock time people getting tortured I'm like, yeah, whatever I lose your thumb chop it off But here I was just like when the the needless like barbarism when they're just just torturing it Just she's crazy Like straight up they're crazy and like they're like the The mace with like hot lead or whatever that she was like beating him with and he's just sitting there like I can't do anything Like I'm really sorry. Just please tell them something Like yeah, that was that was pretty intense Well, it was also I mean so like That's really like the literal like parallel was like I don't feel this way when I read glock to pulling someone's fingernails out or cutting their Fingers off. I'm just like, yeah He's the one doing it. I don't know But also I never really feel any pity for like the people Like who it's happening to and just like the whole situation I guess I I guess I always feel like everyone there is just kind of like corrupt anyway And like not that you deserve to be tortured for being corrupt But I'm like, yeah, but here I guess these like these That humans are showing this alien life. Like this is their first encounter with humanity and just the like absolute like immediate leap to barbarism where they didn't even try talking Yeah That was that was pretty intense man or like when uh when you first meet the Um in lava, what were they called the Yeah, the I just whatever I just said sounded like it was from raiders dragons The uman when they're just like beating the shit out of one just like on the floor for again for no reason And he was just like has to walk by and like not interact, but it was just like They're just beating these, you know aliens as slaves just because and Yeah, I mean humanity sucks. I was gonna say like when How to find the name of the alien life and my book just opened to the page where volka says barbarian She's got a point And like I think once again, this is a thing that could be handled and I have seen handled badly And I think he did a good job of making this like new religion enough of like a parallel to where you're like I see how this is kind of like catholic inquisition. I see But it does feel like a genuine contain like an extension of how humanity would Shift and shift belief To fit the being in the cosmos and that sort of like That western expansion that like provide right over like when they came to the americas and whatever that like that Of course, of course humans would think that about planets as well. Like yeah, that's not very like yeah, that's oh god That is exactly what they want to know Yeah, the chantry sucks And just like his his whole fear of like not being able to talk about certain things or Like interact with aliens because the chantry is gonna torture and kill you. It's like, uh, that's that's lovely And also like the weird like reliance slash fear of tech where they like obviously like there's a really high tech world They're obviously using tech, but there's like certain things that are like, but no no We don't use that kind of tech because because why? Kind of like dude in that way Yeah Yeah, I gotta restrict the technology Which again, like I mean, I think that's why it worked for me so well because like you could just make a religion Where there's like anti tech and you just be like, okay, I guess that's a thing But then learning about how they are probably trying to keep quiet that humans weren't the first Then it just it makes so much more sense and it's not just like well, I guess that's religion It's just doing that like it feels very intentional and very like sure Which which made it feel Realer. Yeah, that there was like they're not just doing this for no reason like it's like it's a cover up Yeah, so because it was um I I feel like this is exactly what so I'm not gonna spoil Anything from the forgetting moon or black ass heart. So the five worry angels series brand leader if he does Very similar things with the religion in that world It's fantasy It's epic fantasy. They're just not big thick books um, but he does he does like a very similar thing where it's like You you kind of there's like a Religion sort of runs the world and everybody has to abide by it And there's like the section of people to just follow it And then there's a section of people that are like this is bullshit Like I'm not gonna follow this and then you kind of learned that like it's all sort of Being manipulated by people in charge to the point where like Lying about what even started it's like this whole Religious like conspiracy thing that I loved about that book and I feel like that was exactly the same thing here Where you're learning that like yeah, the chantries full of shit And they're basically hiding all this you know covering stuff up and that was just it was super super well done But all yeah, but also the fact that that doesn't mean that everyone who is part of the chantry is Like there are crazy people who most probably aren't yeah, and yeah, I think he depicted that really Authentically like that and also just the I thought it was really interesting Again, it's maybe that he called this out that made me kind of like calling him out on being dramatic Is like we called it out now. It doesn't bother me, but like when he really hates the the guy who's like Deformed because he was like natural born Yeah, and the and he's like freely off put by him And then like when they're talking at that one point and he's like being awful and he is relieved to himself And he's like yeah, I'm not disgusted by you because of how you are and relieved to realize that it's just it's just you You're the worst and I hate you has nothing to do with this Because I was like, I mean that's kind of a Not the greatest stereotype of like, oh well the like deformed one is the awful evil one that we had But like it also makes sense that And I think he reflects on this at one point too where he's like I mean this person probably Has become a bully because they've been bullied and whatever but like at what point do you stop like Okay, like maybe that is how this happened, but they are awful. Like maybe like the world made them awful, but they are awful So and that oh, I really I loved that. Um, which kind of gave me red rising vibes, but like that that like uh Banquet or whatever where he's for when he's talking um about like, uh the snake versus the mongoose And they they has that kind of like battle of wits. Yeah, and like urns points with uh His uh, just like the dinner that Dara went to. Yeah. Yeah Yep, lots of parallels It's one of those things where like if an author is gonna say basically make it clear that this is intended to be a Moment where our character is being witty. You're like gambling that the audience is gonna agree that this is witty And I was like, I thought that was pretty witty Is there anything you didn't like about it? Hmm What did I not like? I don't know you go first. Let me think If you have something ready because I mean, I genuinely enjoyed, you know, pretty much the entire thing. Um I let me think for a second if you have one go but I don't I mean, but I mean I have like little maybe nitpicks. Yeah, like I mean I kind of I still think it was done well So it's by no means that actually a flaw, but I do sometimes like just generally and this did it again Like the reliance on what we consider a classical education continuing to be a classical education so far into the future. I'm like, yeah because uh Things like shakespeare are now a classical education, but back in the day that was popular entertainment So even though it comes off corny, it would be slightly more believable to me that like the kardashians would now be like The great philosophers of our day because like by so many years have passed That they're like, this is a great example of the zeitgeist Versus, you know, because like shakespeare wasn't considered high row in history at all people would be like really that's like what your elites are studying That's laughable So for them to like still regard what we consider classical as So far not just in the future, but like not even on earth anymore. I'm like But also like I don't really hate it but like part of me It's just kind of like would say well, but I'm like, it's fine. I'm enjoying this If it was the kardashians, I would have put the book down I almost kind of wish they to just invent something because like yeah How many things would happen between now and when we left the planet that they would just have philosophers that we haven't seen yet That they would be referencing Yeah, because you could even just like keep it like still pull from the real world But just like make up people Be like a direct parallel to something that happened. I mean again red rising did that shit all the time too Even though they're in the future. It was like constantly talking about like old earth and But we did get some high felicia. So And we did we did Anyway That was so funny How many stars you give it five stars, right? Yes, I mean I I only do star ratings on Goodreads because it's there But yeah, but it was a five for me because I loved it and I didn't really have Many negatives to to even point out about it I would I would have to sit down and really think like what did I dislike about this because I kind of loved it the entire way through and like when I get really into a book that I love I don't even like notice minor things that like might have bothered me in other books. I just Like yeah, this this book is great. I don't really have any issues with it Yeah, Sam like if I had issues with it It was like maybe as I went along where I'd be like Like maybe that line was like a little kind of corny or something like that Overall like it wasn't enough for me to be like, oh, it's so stupid. It was more just like But then I'd move on and I was like still loving the experience. Um, did you I Did you think it felt like farce here? Because you you've read royalist accent now, right? Yeah, which by the way, I saw you loved it and that's my favorite in the trilogy But I mean like farce here in what kind of way, I mean, I'm sure that I mean I mean fits telling his own story, which like again, we've said Yeah Um Yeah, I mean, there's definitely storytelling wiser's parallels to it because the You have a little bit of like the unreliable narrator. You're not exactly sure how he's because well like specifically at moments and I don't know if fits does this yet or not in farce here that I recall But hadrian like several times in this book was like at least this is like the story that has been circulated Like he almost like tells you here's like the story that i'm giving you But that's not the only version of this is being told So it's like you don't actually know if some of this is like really the way that it happened or not Um, so I feel like you get a little bit of that in each book. Hadrian's nothing like fits So nothing there Um, but I guess some of like the the hierarchies with like the dukes and just nobility I mean, that's kind of tried and sure you see that in a lot of stuff Um Like all the dukes and lords are a bunch of yeah, I think they're But I don't really know Like you brought it up. What what parallels do you think that you're seeing from farce here? I mean someone in the Uh, andrew here in the comments said it was too similar to dune and farce here a name of the wind and like I see Again, like I think the comparison the name of the wind is very similar to the person to farce here Which you have right so like I think if there is a parallel it's about the same amount as for farce here And like what you just said about the unreliable narrator like again Yeah, that is a thing with name of the wind where kwoth basically says there are so many legends told about me and most of the Best stories about me like the best lies about me are the ones. I circulated myself to build for myself So here's the real story and I mean then it's up to the readers to decide Yeah, I don't mean the fact that kwoth even says to be a good storyteller You have to be a liar. Yeah Like literally says that like you have to tell a story the right way. You have to lie So then you're like, are you lying now? Um, but again name of the wind is hardly the first book to do that again shadow and claw which came well before name of the wind Did that where he's extremely unreliable narrator So who say that it's it's ripping off name of the wind when name of the wind itself was ripping off plenty of Unreliable narrator predecessors like if that's the only thing that's the same It's really nothing like it other than an unreliable narrator telling who has like who's become a legend in his own time Which yeah Is that again? I haven't read name of the wind but like when I was reading the poppy war A lot of people said like the first half of that when she's like at the school and she's learning under like a wacky teacher Like that was super long name of the wind Parallel is a lot more to name of the wind than I feel like this does Yeah The cursory knowledge that I have of name of the wind which I will read eventually but I mean you you and I have talked to a lot of the same people about like Huge name of the wind fans that also love this book and they're like Yeah, people would say that this is a ripoff or full of shit because it's nothing like it Yeah, I mean again It's sort of like I mean if it's a ripoff of anything I would say red rising and I don't think that it is a ripoff of red rising But if you were going to make that claim there is a more there's more basis for that claim If you were going to do a red rising But even then I would just say like if you enjoy name of the wind if you enjoy red rising Then this is going to like hit the spot for you because like it's it's doing somewhat similar things It'll appeal to the part of you that enjoyed those things, but not Not a copycat What I guess if if you had to like break this up into sections between like the beginning the middle and the end of the book Like what was your favorite like part of it? Was it like the Coliseum was it towards the end when you're learning more about like Cielson and and where the story is Going to go or was it at the beginning when it's What we thought was going to be like a a lot more political like dealing with his father and then they were just like No drop you into that I think I was so like But intellectually the most invested and emotionally the most invested would be two different parts So like I was like intellectually the most interested and fascinated when we started like hinting at like there's these ruins And like where what are who made these ruins or what are they made from they couldn't have done this You're implying there's someone that came before and then you're like goes to the second I started seeing the glyphs and he's like touches a thing But you're like we're obviously not going to get the answers. I was like, oh, what is this Yeah, the language thing of like when she says what they're called and he's like grave and she's like well quiet And like why are they quiet? Oh because they don't leave anything and like that was just like oh a mystery But then like the torturing was like I felt such emotional investment I was like Heartbroken over these like aliens that are getting tortured and are basically like you but it kind of oh It felt it's very different But it felt like uh in lord of the rings when It tells gollum to come out of the pool because like, you know, it's fine like master And he's like master lied to us and you're like he didn't lie like You were gonna get thrown into a So yeah, that that like kind of like ripped my heart out Well, I mean because you even see hadrian kind of like break at that point when when he finally like gets his Like his plan seems to be working to like turn the power off and like get the clc now and then that whole scene of like He's been watching this guy get tortured but like he's trying to To keep him like alive to get him out and then the lights go out and like you hear the change dropped to the floor And he's just like fuck and this thing just like attacks him Kind of blame it like of course, it's gonna attack him. I would too And then he's still trying to get his information, but then like at that point It's almost like Fight or flight like he has to defend himself But then he's still he's like twisting the knife and like just tell me how you met humans before So like he starts torturing the shit out of this thing. It's just like Jesus man It was very well risen. It was late I was kind of getting like independence day vibes from the scene where like they meet the alien in the lab And like all the lights are flickering and like you can't see shit and it's just like no peace Fighting them. Uh, that was kind of like the vibe that I got from that. Um Much better than independence day as much as I love that but It was it was hurt really well and it was terrifying to think like this What I want to see some like artwork. I don't know what this thing looks like, but this is like a big black Creature with giant claws apparently and and they're really tall, right? They're like they're yeah I think they're they're way taller than humans. But like every time they said like they would smile with their like really sharp teeth And I think he's gonna be black gums. Yeah. So like they're terrifying Yeah But uh, actually, I mean, I don't they don't look like the aliens in that but I reminded me of uh, have you seen district nine? Yeah, when he sees how they're being tortured. Oh, yeah, like it kind of reminded me of that Which is also like Yeah, which is also a hard movie to watch because I like watching that you're like, this is terrific And of course that's what humans would do Yeah, exactly Because humans are the worst I'm like, yeah, there's times when like this y'all seem to be like that this is he says things like this is what humans always do Uh, you're not wrong Well, because he tells hajian like you're exactly like you're all the same and then Which he has a reference of because he's obviously talked to humans that none of you know happened So we have no idea like no idea at this point how many years ago they met humans And I'm sure we're immediately attacked and tortured because that's what humans do They like I like that it didn't make hajian like a perfect Well, like I don't you know, like one of these like whitewash like I don't see race like types of people Because there's a moment when like I think it's when um, this yelson bites the fingers And um when like he suddenly kind of like regresses into like what he's been indoctrinated with his whole life That these are monsters and he kind of is like they're monsters like they Like I have to and then he like has to fight with himself to be like, I mean we're monsters too low key But like he's kind of like immediately he feels that otherness about them. He's not just like benevolent They're just being tortured and we should be better than this. He's like, oh, they're the enemy for a second Because of course he would Well, that's what I'm kind of wondering like So if if the whole premise of this is he's telling The story of how he destroyed the sea yelson Like I'm wondering Guess you'll get to see what it looks like Nice I'm wondering like what actually gets to that point where does he find something out and like Is like, oh, they actually are just monsters and we need to destroy them or like what's I'm wondering like what actually goes or does he side with them against humanity? Yeah, but he kills the sea yelson like that's isn't that like his whole character like he's destroyed the sea yelson So I mean the other sea yelson don't know that I guess And they told him I mean he was supposed to be mercy killing it. He told them they do yeah do that for them and so like That's what he did Yeah, I mean, I guess like I think If you're gonna set up your story as like I am the villain of my own time and this is how and why but like you because you this isn't actual history So like you don't actually know what that means and villain to who so when you're The villain like presumably humanity regards you as a villain. That's why you're phrasing with the play Why would human be think you're a villain because you sided against humanity? for me there's that or or it could be you know, he He you know, not even like necessarily in the war but like sides of this yelson realizes that they're not Actually monsters and tries to help them But then like the media is like this guy's a traitor and like they just paint him as that So then that's like he kind of like takes on the persona. Maybe or it's not anti humanity than anti the religion because he's very Definitely by chance or yeah He's gonna take the chance me down for sure. So or die trying Well, he's telling the story he's not gonna die. I mean and the last book he could die I mean, maybe He finishes telling the story and then passes out That was my uh, running joe clash theory for why book three of name of the wind of the king Helicronic lesson written yet because patrick rothas has written where in the middle of telling a story Both just gills over dead has a stroke and like doesn't get to finish telling a story and the publishers are like We can't publish that and he's like, well, that's what I wrote. They're just like gonna you know stand at an impasse The last 200 pages of doors of stone are just blank He died halfway through it Like uh, you know, money python when they carve Chronicler just wrote His clothes is dead now That would be hilarious But I just kind of assumed that like it's if you're gonna open your book by telling me the end presumably You're telling me in a way that is intentionally misleading. So Yeah, he's not the villain that we think he is I mean, it's definitely gonna be up to interpretation. It's it's left intentionally vague Like obviously you're not going to get all the answers in this book and that wasn't like a negative for me Maybe that was like the only thing I was like, come on. Give me something because the entire time I'm like, okay We know this guy's gonna be Vader. He's really really Anakin nice so far I want some gaps here. Like this guy's pretty good Well, this is into menace Anakin was very Anakin by the end of phantom menace You're gonna have to wait for revenge of the sith Yeah, he's just killing kids Yeah, you know as one does That's that's what I'm wondering because the I feel like howling dark and even a white probably Mean something too, which I don't understand the text for yet But like the fact that it's five books long to tell this story and those are two big ass books Like I'm wondering what we're even gonna get by the end of book three Has killed us I'm sure he hates it because it gets everywhere Who doesn't I need my fucking books to get here because we're gonna read I was gonna say spoiler If mine ever gets you this is what you want. Yeah, that one Well, it's presumably is like a reference to like these quiet ones that you know These aliens that have left their mark, but haven't left their mark But now they're gonna start howling Now they're not silent. Are they howling because they're wolf omnisphere lupus I mean, it's not rising though. It's not right If at some point switch is like, what should we call ourselves and pageants like howlers I'm gonna lose these there was totally a part where they said something in latin that was about lupus Yes, yeah, and I was like Mmm It's not rising we're gonna get to howling dark and switch is gonna be like wearing a wolf helmet Like stop it and hajian found like he bent his sword on accident and it's like, well, it's kind of like a sigh of the now No, stop I've killed so many that I'm basically the reaper Oh No Now we just need to cross over this just needs to Have a book for us to cross over No, that's what I wanted like so if darrow and hajian met would they like each other? No, they're too much alike. They would out mellow dramatic each other That's something to either be like seeing super eye to eye or they I mean I kind of feel like the reason not to segue but I feel like the reason that read uh that darrow and casius Don't get along is that they're kind of too much alike They just have different backgrounds, but like if if he had if darrow had been born of gold. He would be like casius Yeah, probably But I mean, so I'm I guess I need to be the most like casius What I'm wondering those um So from this book sense because obviously I don't know when to read the lesser devil because that's about chrispin It's a prequel obviously, but like I don't know if it spoils anything from other books Um, I think it might spoil something for book two, but I'm wondering like going forward to book two and book three then Is he eventually gonna is hajian gonna have to like fight chrispin and or like his dad? Or are they like kind of like out of the picture now that he's just like eventually that's gonna come back up right that for his mom Huh mom was kind of a big deal Well, yeah, but I'm just wondering like Wait, okay. If this is him becoming um Darth Vader, you know what's satanic and off is mom getting killed Yeah, but by who his dad Maybe his dad they did this and seems to me no love lost and especially because he was like What will my dad do to her if he finds out that she helped me? That's true. And also they don't even like each other. It was like basically an arranged marriage um He was decanted Lovely That's a good point that I mean, yeah for sure his Because something's gonna have to set him off too though. Oh, okay So the prequel is set during the time when hadren's and cryo Interesting Yeah, that's not what I was expecting. I was expecting it to like maybe be their childhood or something I mean, it probably says that on here somewhere. I just hadn't looked at it yet But I mean you can also like on the covers of these books. So like I guess is this hajian. I think so, but like at what point is he is he in this get up? I Isn't that like some of the armor that they talked about and I feel like they described that exact armor at some point in This book and I don't remember the exact scene that they did it It's also, I mean the the audiobook cover has like basically some him in a gladiator like leather where part of it looks so corny I know but also that's meant to be when he is he is a gladiator. Yeah, that's that's the colossal armor but like Yeah, like that cover doesn't look good the gladiator one But this is like hajian in armor and we know hajian has dark hair. So who who is this? I don't know. I don't think it's hajian though, but he's got basically he's carrying sting. So I guess it's going to be a Lord of the Rings rip off The way is shut he killed He took sting He killed Frodo I mean, okay, and they're also anti like cyborg and this looks like a cyborg because he's got like Tech 100 but the entire thing like behind him is like connected to him too Yeah, but he's still holding up the word like I feel like sir. How are you going to get up to fight anybody? You seem I mean that has to be hajian though, right? Because it's the same sword It's they're similar like it's it glows blue on emperor silence, too Yeah, and then he just becomes a he goes to the carvings like someone is holding this Who is holding this sword? What does this mean? It's a dead body. He stabbed them. He's just like no But then so who's the redhead Does he get like a does he go and get carved? Yeah, look get his hair dyed red instead of red rising. It's gold descendant Maybe this is like him getting carved. It's his mid carve hence This is him while he's under mickey's knife That's mickey's knife I apologize to everyone expecting the empire silence talk But I mean, okay, so also sun eater. Yeah, I'm not I mentioned that several times but like do you have an inkling of why? I'm sure there's if I should have paid closer attention to some of that. You know what a guy on the boom and white cover is Love your speculation We've heard of the guy is all they'll say On demon white so he didn't just get like a sick haircut and dye his hair red Oh, I'm oh, oh, um, he's uh his teacher Get uh, give good what? Gibson Gibson This dude is too young to be Gibson though. Wouldn't I be but I'm trying to think of somebody that we heard of that kind of like you know Disappeared Yeah, this he said for the demon and white cover not howling dark gibson, but no It's okay great perfect We'll find out when the gibson mentioned Well, we've obviously heard his name before I don't know I Who knows you've heard of all the characters. Oh, um, what's that book that he dream gets from gibson that's like contraband about like I'm not like the guy that he like looked up to as a kid and like wanted to be like Or which book are we talking about like before like gibson gives him that book and that contains the letter that has the plan And and that book is like not supposed to be like it's like a blacklisted or whatever and then his mom Has the book I feel like that's about someone legendary I don't remember I just I want to know can we start doing this immediately? Do we have to wait until That sounds like a you problem Uh, I guess I could get the kindle edition or the audiobook That's sure. Also, I mean for anyone it was into audiobooks and who's here and is Not like who it didn't care about spoilers. I guess and stayed this long and hasn't read the audiobooks really good. I like the narrator Yeah, he was great What was I gonna say? Oh the the whole colossal part because again dune shields Uh, yes, that's super reminded me of the same thing. But like the entire Just to go back to like why humans suck like the entire thing is like they're basically I mean, it's it's a gladiator They're right. They're just throwing fodder out there to die for entertainment But like the fact that the actual gladiators are just like athletes celebrities that literally can't die in the arena But everybody fighting against them is like allowed to just be murdered. I was like that's a little messed up So if there is a flaw I almost feel like that would be the flaw because like it takes some of the tension out of watching the fight If you know that one side can't lose like even if it's like david versus goliath in theory goliath can die Yeah, so like you'd be like why what am I watching this for if like they literally I think dude. They just want to watch people get murdered. I guess. So all this is like when Super dude, I was like Megaton Oh, the shields were 100% dude But like when hajian when hajian's watching with the the brother and sister whose names I forget because dorian and What's the chick's name? The one he's gonna marry Oh, that's just not happening Hey, maybe maybe it does and that's what makes him so angry that he becomes a theater That's why he becomes a cyborg But if she was just like you could become a gladiator like you won't even get hurt like that's messed up, man You just go kill a bunch of peasants for no reason And then poor switch Which how did you feel about switch? Did you like him? I feel like we didn't see enough like by the time I realized they were tight. I was like, who are you? I was like, oh, you're like tight with him. Wait, sorry. Who was this again? I liked him though because he was like the nice little like overcomic relief kind of side cake But he also like got emotional when he's just like you guys don't have any idea like what it's like to be us Like you don't know your your nobility You don't you don't get this and then at the end of it when they have that like cute little moment of like Understanding but switch like won't look at him. He's kind of like reading the book. He's just like, oh, it's okay. Like we're cool Like oh I also loved like switch weirdly lurking when he was talking to valka and he's like, I wish he weren't here right now Super awkward and he's like He's like night eyes See it's exactly like far as the earth Even like switch like hey, you're the chick that he like far, you know that he attacked that guy over, huh? He's like not helping I'm sorry boss No, I mean I liked him and like by the end of me I liked him but like at first like when he had that big fallout with him When he's like fighting with him. I was like wait who? I had like I felt like he was with cat for such a long time that like I was like invested in that and like the It was so fast that he like went through this like gladiator thing of like Like there wasn't a lot of time devoted to like seeing that Does that make sense? Yeah Did you feel emotionally impacted by cat's death? I didn't either I don't know if we were meant to I don't know he was apparently But that's what I feel I feel like we were meant to get from it that it affected him But I don't know how much we were meant to that was just kind of how I feel about like when people talk about Dena and I'm like I don't have to love her It's just really relevant to understanding this character to know that he's into her and this is guiding his decisions So I don't have to be into that So like I get why he would be emotionally affected by this but I wasn't and I don't know If I needed to be any more than understanding of the fact that he is emotionally affected by this Because he's been apart later when he's like thinking to himself like oh man. I low key forgot about her I was like Okay, so we're horrible humans and people do actually care about cat We you know how humanity is the worst it's us We are the worst So then so where do you realistically see? Like the How do I want to say this because I already said like where you where do you see book two going? but like do you think book two is gonna end with any kind of like Resolution with the sea elson or do you feel like it's gonna be like the start of like a Big war because I feel like at some point this is gonna get like really expanded into like a full-blown like Combat I feel like if a sea elson is meant to be on the cover of the book four I'm I'm guessing this is only the beginning Or Hadrian's a sea elson Can he change? We're going to see like this. He was a human and then he was a cyborg Which is already sub human And then he became an alien Maybe maybe that's how you betrayed humanity by leaving the species I mean turning cyborg is pretty Vader because Vader is basically barely a human anymore. Yeah, I mean It's a little fast to be doing that in attack of the clones, but True But so does that mean that volka is his Padme? I mean, she's I can't pick your volka No, she's gonna call him a barbarian how much time Which I felt like I mean I felt well again I felt like that was a well done We're like a lot of the time like I saw where she was coming from and she wasn't wrong about how Backward his point of view is there were times when he called her out and was like look like you're also not perfect and you're also like doing things that You know like just you know what back off lady like Where do you get off? Oh gives me in some situations. It's like what else do you expect me to do? Yeah Well, yeah, there was nothing those times like I felt his frustration We're like he's already like made the like he already attacked the guy So he's already in a situation where he has the duel and she's like still giving a lip about it And he's like look you know what I can't go back and change time I literally cannot do that and I have already done this thing and this is where we are now So if we're not going to talk about what our realistic options right now, then I need you to leave because not helpful right now Well speaking of that How did you feel about the whole like duel because I kind of figured it was going to go the way it was going to go Where he was like, okay, I'm just gonna get first blood. It'll be fine I was like, okay, so obviously like he's gonna first blood you and then Try to kill you and then you're gonna have to kill him Like I thought the whole like combat was well done I don't know why the fuck this priest was like as nimble and Good of a swordfighter as he was being hobbled and talking shit the whole time But how'd you feel about the commentary on like because he you know thinks himself. Oh man, like I really let myself go I should have kept training where it's kind of like Um when gizelle is being trained in first law and it's like you have natural talent But you do have to actually train and there's other people like west who don't have natural talent But they trained so hard so they could be like a match for you and like if you're gonna be cocky Like somebody who isn't as talented as you can outmatch you because they worked on it So I think that's kind of what it was going for but they did kind of yeah Just go out of its way telling you just how crippled he is and you're like Could you though? Yeah, because like the whole time he was just like, uh, you know, how manly of you to challenge a cripple I'm just like, yeah, but you're like dashing around and like Yeah Tyrion does you know like he So, you know does trial by combat, but he gets someone else to fight for him It'd be like if Tyrion was like, no, I would do it and like You're like Like Yoda in Revenge of the Sith CGI Yoda just bouncing off the walls doing summer assaults, you know, that's what this guy was doing He's using the force That dude was such a dick though Wait, we all the the the priest he had to die like Again, like Hadrian's reflection on like add to I hate you because you're ugly. No, I hate you because you're the worst You're just a garbage human. You're a garbage I loved that little line when he said about like, uh, I never thought a courtesy could be wasted or something like that. Yeah just like There were so many times and like Hadrian like It was it was a little excessive and a little bit irally, but also I was like, but yeah, that was pretty good You did get him which okay We're gonna say king killer parallels, which it's not a problem, but there are definitely times when like Uh, kvoth very like well future kvoth is self aware about the fact that he got himself into trouble Maybe like and you as you're reading it and you're like, oh, can you just be quiet? Like don't say the thing don't do the thing And you did the thing why why why why and it's like because somebody is rich and powerful and they're being awful And like you can't win this just walk away, but instead kvoth pokes them And said something snide says something so clever that they don't understand it and now they're embarrassed and angry and you're like That was very clever like good job, but why? Yeah, why? So like same thing here where like Hadrian like attacks, uh the priest and you're like like I get it and like yes But also no So I guess like I he's a totally different character from kvoth He's nothing like but things like that where he's an unreliable narrator and he does things we were like I think that is clever. I I get where you're coming from. I do but you did could you not? So yeah, I I mean I would hardly say that's plagiarism for gonna say plagiarize something it was kingdom of heaven Which is an excellent film so it is Especially the director's cut Yeah, although I will say the weakest part of that movie is orlando bloom Oh, I mean He's the weakest part of most things that he's in so but even that I mean like I don't think like he did a bad job I just don't think he's the right like he like no matter what he's just not like the type for that character You know like he was just not good casting No, he's a good elf Yeah, he's that's like peak orlando bloom, but only in the original trilogy not hobbit where he's Uncanny valley elf There's a cgi at that point. Yeah where he looks really older than he does in Yes Because I was noticing the kingdom of heaven like thing I'm Like Because obviously the roman influence is is strong like with red rising But there is kind of more of a because as red rising doesn't really have a church thing going on And so there was definitely shades of the crusades with like with this Virtues like we have the divine rights to you know, blah, blah, blah So like that did Feel while While parallel while something that you know, you like this is from history or this I've seen this done before But I thought it was a really great way of like bringing the crusades into space in a way that felt like believable For sure. Yeah, I mean the I wanted to see if we're gonna get any kind of like origins At some point of the chantry or like how this became kind of like the almost universal like Religion authority that they are because they seem to have like quite a grip on everything So I'm wondering if we're gonna get like more into how that actually happened And because I mean the The entire like allister's entire plot was to get hadrian inside the chantry to basically like control it So I'm one inside man Like why are they that strong like who let that happen when you have all these other people that like Clearly I Obviously like we're not meant to like hadrian's father But I kind of like I It's it's horrible to do that to your own son But I kind of get where he's coming from and like I kind of don't Like I'm kind of on his side And he's like I want my son who I trust to be my inside man in this horrible church that we we hate Like be my inside man And so hadrian's like I can't spend my life being in this horrible church. You're like, why are you the worst? Can you just be what I ask please? You know, I disown you this I do not need this I mean it makes sense because chrispen is like He couldn't be an inside man. He can Well, he can just like put him on the throne and be like and control him Which is why like hadrian obviously wouldn't be easily controlled. So although I did feel kind of Not confused but like my impression of hadrian and his family was that they were quite noble And then seeing that like actually this family that he lands himself with they are They have less good genes but are more noble that his family is actually considered kind of like lower born Even though they have better genes and that was like I had to kind of like I thought he was like at the top already like I initially that like they owned like entire planets are like Like areas but it was it was almost like they're like regional They're like regional managers Or it was just kind of the way that like um Like historically nobility would talk about like the merchant class where they're like it's so rich And but they're like, oh, but you're not blue-blooded, you know Like you're not like one of us per se. You just like made a lot of money And that's kind of like the vibe with hadrian's family were like they made a lot Like he's like, well, we have the like licensed to mine. Was it uranium? They have the spice Yeah, they have the spice. They're controlling the spice. Yeah, but yeah, that they're that they aren't I thought they were like inside of top top So you have to wonder who is on top Because the other family obviously I think it's this guy. This guy's on top he's he's in a weird like This is like looks like dungeon. This looks like space brand You know when your hand is connected to the tree It's a space brand No, I had a better story So Yeah, I mean, I'm obviously very curious to see where this is going So, I mean and well done from the the guys that I've spoken to that have read on You know in the series said that you know empire silence is by far the weakest Which cool because I love it Yeah How okay since you have it how long is the second one? That's a little bit longer a little bit because I think demon and whites even thicker it is I have that too Demon and white is like the dark age like where it really says like how how big it gets I'm also Not jealous at all of your sub press editions that I can see either Oh, you have a dark age Yeah, I have I have dark age. That's right. And that's the only one I'll ever have I never say never I'm not shelling out $1,200 for the other ones. Maybe you'll have a generous patron who's like I heard you wanted these Yeah He go You'll go into a goodwill where some dumb rich person just was like, I don't want babies And then they're just like $5 Yeah Stranger things have happened It's true So what else We what I said, so what else about empire silence? What else do we want to talk about? The book kicks ass. I know that Was so it was so good It really it really really was I'm surprised that I mean, it's not like no one's reading it, but I'm surprised more people aren't reading it. Yeah Because it's so good Yeah, I mean because I haven't as far as like booktube the only person I had even seen talk about it and like The reason that I knew about it was mike and that was Like last year But like if you got a like rocky his channel's kind of small and I just learned that he had a patreon So I missed out on like his high tier It's like 50 bucks a month, but he'll send you like a signed copy of each book until you have them all So like shit. I really wanted that because that would have been sweet But it's limited. But yeah, it seems like this is really kind of like flowing under the radar Which Who knows how shit gets picked up man Like john gwin went under under the radar forever and now he's like becoming more popular like years later So maybe the same thing will happen with rocky. Oh, but obviously he has a five book deal Robin hob is doing very well on booktube right now For sure out of nowhere But I'm wondering if it was the when I bought this like two or three years ago Um, it was because a friend of mine on instagram who's a big big fan of name of the wind Um, just posted it not even like on her feed just in her insta story that she was like just finished it five stars And then I was like, oh it's good. She's like, yeah, you'd really like it. You should get it And then like I was like, okay, and then I ordered it and then I bought it So many other things to read and also like I just like it's not one that you keep hearing about So it wasn't like, oh, yeah, like I really need to be reading that because there's a lot of it It's not even that like You want to like do the popular thing. It's just that it keeps reminding you of its existence when people hype it You're like, oh, yeah that book. Yeah, I do need to read that But when you like don't hear about it at all, it's not you don't want to read it It's just that like you forget that you have it Which is why I thought you haul it. I was like I have that I had been meaning to get to it for a while But I was always looking at like I couldn't find the hardcover Because I I refuse to get mass markets unless I have to and I was looking for the hardcover Hey, Shana, it's a good book. Go read it. It's literally name of the wind Red rising a song of ways of fire by the year Uh The book of the new stone. Yeah, the book of the new sun um It's all the things in space in heaven Kingdom of heaven Kingdom of heaven space feeling Um Yeah, I kept looking on amazon and like they never had it in stock and randomly one day It was like 20 bucks on amazon. So I was like, all right, so and I ordered it and then I don't know. I don't know where it came from. It was said it was new. It's not it's got like a little Like yeah, mine too has a little thing on it. Little red that's marked for It's got some ruffled edges, but it's in pretty good shape. So I don't know But then the other two books I see everywhere I always see them in the store and I was like, well, I might as well just order it because it's probably going to be cheaper and I'm Amazon lost it, but bastards Well, we need people to read these so that they reprint and get special editions at such a Well, the good thing is rocky. I like this quit his job to become a full-time writer. So The good thing is he quit his job like that doesn't sound like good news. I said to become a full-time writer So hopefully that means that we'll get book four and five, you know, I think book four is already coming out next year Right else and on the cover. Yeah, so book five probably not too long after that um But I don't know. Hopefully his name name gets out there a little bit more and Becomes more popular because I know he's in like Mike's discord. So they all know about him but I haven't really heard a whole lot of people talk about him and this book is awesome So I was like, I mean, again, it's not a ripoff of red rising But I just feel like the same crowd who is wild about red rising would be equally wild about this And I just don't like I was curious when like I you know marked this now as red on good reads And when I like saw the profile I saw that it had like 3000 ratings only And I was like, well, I was like not everyone in the world that reads uses good read So I was like, maybe I'm like, how many ratings do books usually get so I was like for like I don't actually make that seems low, but maybe it's not. Maybe it's just And then like I pulled up red rising as my comparison. It has like 200,000 Like, okay. No, it's low But even like smaller than that. So like I read the first two books of the five warrior angels, which I thought was incredible I think it's like a couple hundred reviews on good reads. Maybe 20 I mean, I guess that's fine since we don't have a book for yet, but I'm just like that's so long from now I'm gonna answer We don't even have the fourth one yet I just like knowing that it's there. It's same with like sure like I like I won't necessarily binge the whole thing I just want to know it's there if I want to have the ending Yeah, so that at my leisure when I am so inclined whenever that may be I have it there Fair point Oh, yeah, I mean if this was the weakest one I'm Here for it especially for like his His debut novel like that That continues to impress me when somebody takes on like this big of a project as like their first Published work and it's that good Is really I mean as big a fan as I am of red rising as a series This as a first book is way stronger than red rising is I yeah, I almost dnf red rising like three different times Yeah, I was just like what is this juvenile bullshit that I'm reading Because I felt you I felt like Pierce Brown was trying to be like super edgy like way too often Which like I feel like learning that Pierce Brown was basically like rage writing it for himself You're like no it reads like that that checks out Yeah That's what anytime somebody's just like I don't know if I really like this one. I was like, yeah, I know Just push the book too is written by somebody else. It's basically real Or at least like it's a it's him writing it for someone other than just himself. Yeah, you're like, oh, I have readers now better write this properly But I'm wondering like if this if we're gonna get like We it's hinted at as being something epic But I mean like a love story like if it's gonna be a really intense Thing with him and valica because like she's keeping a pretty arms length Right now and we just keep getting his foreshadow She is but I'm again with everyone living like hundreds of years like does that She's like 300 Yeah So I mean At some point they're probably gonna get together right But again, is it gonna be some like epic love stories? They're just gonna be like he wanted it to be and she was just never allowed into it Because like we get that he's into her and he keeps foreshadowing how much he's into her and how much he's gonna continue to be into her But is that ever gonna be reciprocated? Oh I feel like they will eventually get together It's gonna be great Exactly she's gonna get the shit murdered out And she's gonna be betrayed Lose the will to live She's gonna die As soon as whoever like because random love interest I don't think it's gonna happen. So like if that's if it's gonna be her I feel like she's gonna die And maybe his mom like whoever he's gonna have to start losing people that are like close to him other than cat We don't care about That's relevant cat who Yeah, I mean, I'm sure books two and three are really gonna show up like Why he's actually becoming a villain per se the villain because I don't know if he actually is or not but We'll see maybe it'll just be like a chantry Like propaganda Like saying that he's the bad guy and I need to see if we're gonna see more of like where she comes from and her Because I guess I mean I am a slightly Not confused But like I know the chantry's reaches wide, but why isn't it everywhere? Like who is outside of their reach and why are they Like she's obviously still able to interact with people under the control of the chantry But like Is it like you know like I don't really know how that works like who is under this umbrella? I don't know Guess we'll find out she's horrible heretic witch I am excited though. Yeah, for sure So yeah a couple of weeks definitely read it. Hopefully I have my copy by then We'll see start july 1st If my copy's here I'll start All right, we'll do this. I'll just you can read it aloud to me You know, I can just get it. I can get on kindle or audio, but no, I I want to read audio That'll be your fun boxer in like 15 minute increments Would be delightful But yeah, so we'll chat about it on your channel. Yeah, for sure That's weird pointing reverse Are you pointing at me? Is that? Yeah, I was trying to point at you, but it's like, you know mirrored so Oh, my monitor's over here. So I'm pointing at you right now Or I could just you know, nope I was like, oh, I'm pointing at the wall That was the books that works too when I'm doing this. I'm like pointing at my light like out in the middle of my room right now So this is awkward I'm pointing at my either the rest of my couch over there Yeah, and so this is just a ripoff of like 10 billion different things mushed together Something happened to be things we like so we're for it No, it was great for sure. I would be genuinely curious to know if he like subconsciously quoted kingdom of heaven or if he knowingly quoted Because like it's totally like possible that like you just like it, you know filters into your subconscious And then if you're writing it, you're like this sounds really good. Yeah, you don't even realize that like No, you should definitely ask him. He's like, why did you take this from kingdom of heaven? Super aggressive Yeah, and then explain no, no, I'm a fan. That's fine My dogs are here now because I guess they decided they enjoy it Did you guys What are you doing? All right, I don't know. Is there anything else that you want to talk about for this one? I'm sure we could if we actually like sat down and studied the book, but I don't I mean like I just want to keep gushing about it And since I'm not allowed to start the next one right away because of reason All I have to do to keep talking about it You can It would just make me sad I'll just secretly read it Don't you have like eight other books to read this month? Yeah, but I just want to I mean I'm kind of leaning towards rereading dark age because if I can't read this I'll just read red rising It's the same thing Honestly, okay, like not not to I'll be super vague so it's not the spoil But like if anything like this reminded me of kind of where red rising has now gone Like this is reminding me of like dark age vibes more than like actually like red rising the book vibes Yeah, for sure the bigger space the more other things That are involved now in red rising If I can't read on in this I'll just read dark age again Well, we need to At least skim dark age anyway, so we can talk about it. I think alan is starting to hit bananas Yeah, and he's going what like you'll be saying that a lot. Yeah I think alan would like this though definitely And I think he'd be less annoyed because he doesn't do some of the corny things around us Yeah, no by felicia's See I just I thought that shit was funny when I read that though and I was like did he really just do that? Yeah, me too. I think Yeah, that stuff doesn't annoy me because I just I think it also just like Red rising feels very much like with you meet pierce brown. You're like, yeah, you wrote this Like they they feel very him. Yeah, like that's a joke you'd make I Was gonna say that's not like we didn't get really animal companions in this Yeah, but What kind of animal companion would you want in space? No, we have like carved creatures and stuff and red rising If you're gonna rip off red rising, where's my carved creatures? Switch can be hit his animal companion Right wrong I love the explanation of the like it's not cannibalism Because you're not eating your own. Oh, yeah I was like, yeah idiot. It's just eating us Y'all sounded terrifying man but also like I get sympathetic I mean like that's when it reminded me of like that those kingdom of heaven That's what I was gonna say earlier Not that like you made me forget but like the fact that this is kind of like crusades in space like The fact that like It wasn't just because you could have them encounter each other in any kind of ways Like they just happen to encounter each other and like you can still have it be A non confrontation like they weren't trying to attack you but the fact literally they were coming here to pray They were coming like it's really like like Jerusalem where they're like they just came here to pray and y'all started torturing If they're telling the truth Yeah, they weren't like really like kitted out for war That's true because they were just like on a transport ship Yeah, it's so up and you're like, oh, no humans are here That's good church. Uh-oh. Oh, no Not just humans. It's the humans church that is here doing this because god wills it even worse Yep All right Well That's that then hope your copies arrive so we can freaking read this Yeah, well, you know what if you want to go on without me I'll pick it up on kindle Now I always try to read things like right before i'm supposed to chat about them. So it's fresh in my brain Yeah, I mean It says arriving thursday We'll see Do we want to aim for mid july again? Like we did mid june now Oh, we can do that or start with july doesn't matter Like first like the first weekend of july I just mean like it can be the first thing that we read. Oh, no, but I've been like For the chat for the chat whenever whatever works Okay, i'm playing my ear. We'll just show up live one day. No warning. We'll just we're just talking now It's happening Cool. Yeah Next month for sure though Next month for sure And then yeah for anyone who is a red rising fan, which kind of hope y'all are We will be on ellen's channel, which does he's hold this one yet? No, so at some point We're in the ellen's channel where we are supposed to talk about dark age and since we talked about red rising in this We'll just talk about empire of silence. Yeah, make ellen feel really frustrated and left out I can't wait Just constantly be like this reminded me of haydrian. He's gonna be like what? It'll be just like empire of silence. Yeah Yeah, ellen, you should just read that. What are you doing? Get with the program cool Cool anything else you want to wrap up with or Just said it was great people need to read this people need to hype this up I guess it's up to us now. We need to spread the good word We'll do tell everyone this is great Make it as big as red rising I don't know if i'm Powerful enough for that, but i'll try No, we can't find out and we can't wait to find out when that will be. Yeah I don't know when it is ellen has not told us and it is what Basically mid june, so yeah, and I think we're supposed to send him action shots of ourselves for the Oh for like his thumbnail. Yes, and I did possibly buy a prop weapon for this service I possibly did not There's still time he hasn't told us And it'll arrive before your copy of howling dark does almost undoubtedly. That's not funny Oh, I mean I could I don't it's not an actual weapon but My little like kindle holder Has this on it. I thought you're gonna pull out your your sub press copy of dark age and be like Chuck this at someone and it's Is If you know like how batman has those things shaped like a bat, but they're like throwing stars If you get like a Howler, yeah Honestly like okay, I know that no one cares about this But like there's a lot of red rising merch and i'm just trying to think like if we succeeded in making this as big What would be the merch though? Um, we don't have any like cool sigils that make like pins and rings and stuff out of I don't know red heads Like killer white suits, maybe I don't know you'll see all configurations Yeah, I don't know Not sure Well, hopefully the next books present some rich opportunities so we can pitch those I also just realized that On this cover with chrispen. He also has a glowing blue sword So you know like that's what they have like they just they're amazing They're lightsabers. Yeah, that might just be what they use So they have shields like dune, but they use lightsabers exactly, but they're roman nobles like red rising on excursions like kingdom of heaven Yes, all right. That's the blurb for the cover That was good I'm impressed that we could talk about a book that we liked for this long. It's so much easier to Yeah, I feel like it's usually so much easier to talk about a book you hate and be like this was bad And this was stupid and I handed this and that part but like to talk about a book you like I'm usually like it was perfect. It was great. I would change nothing read it Pretty much that's what we just said for an hour and a half True. It's great It's a ripoff of red rising, but it's not exactly It feels so bad because it's really not but like the parallels are I mean, yeah, the more you talk about it the more you're going to find the parallels, but when you actually More so than than Name of the wind Pros too like the pros is a lot more similar to pierce brown And it's not like pierce brown because it's pierce brown is present tense for one, which is a is a choice But uh, yeah, it doesn't it doesn't sound like name of the wind really at all I'll take your word for it because I haven't read it. Just just trust me. Everyone has been saying this gal crazy It's nothing like name of the wind Get out of here Well, the people that said that basically took those few quotes and were like see they're similar So it's basically your joking way of saying that it's exactly like kingdom of heaven is what people are literally saying about name of the wind Right, and I'm like if you're gonna say he literally Quoted something it's kingdom of heaven and it's only at the end Exactly the same thing Exactly the same thing All right. Yeah, when is the dark age show tell us if you know Does chase no, I don't know should I just ask alan? I feel like alan doesn't know We'll find out what alan finds out Ask him right now Then we can announce it live Hey, buddy, when are we gonna be on your channel alan when is the dark age live show? The people want to know There that's on voxer and now in this video. It's the next game of thrones just like every other Exactly It's game insurance. We've got to eat it. I'm sure one of these says it on there somewhere that it's like Game of thrones It'll say it somewhere Whether obviously compared to dune or like no surprise or on like amazon or something Yeah, I think I saw like uh, not maybe i'm not blurb, but I swear I saw somebody somewhere say that Oh, it's the best of and then like listed back. Yeah, there's one of the things But yeah, mainly i'm seeing dune Which yeah Oh, oh wow. Well, we've got for fans of pierce brown and patrick roffus. So There you go. Thanks library journal for making people think it's the cankula chronicle It's not It's the same No Just take my word for it. It's not So, yeah, also thankfully he's not on the same writing schedule that patrick roffus is aka no schedule I mean he's not streaming on towards a bunch of tears in the background telling everyone, please don't ask me questions about doors or something Well, in fairness people shouldn't ask christopher rockio about doors of stone. That's I figure it's also the same thing. I mean, yeah, they are the same thing Maybe when patrick roffus gives up and christopher rockio can like brandon sanderson finished wheel of time We'll take it christopher rockio to finish cankula chronicle because he's basically already writing it Exactly. They're the same thing problem solved We fixed it Maybe all he can also then finish the song of wise and fire Cool Book four in march 2022 sweet So we'll have to Have a break and then we'll we'll get back and by then alan can catch up and he can join us exactly He has his homework All right, any final notes? No, this book is awesome. Go read it now Yes, this is really good. I'm so stoked to read the next one I'll read it eventually I won't read it and I just want you to appreciate the sacrifice So send me pictures on boxer every day. We're like, hey, this book's here. Where's yours? I'm basically being tortured like this And it's your fault The least you could do is kill me All right That's that then We're good. We're good. Well, I'm good. I have the books Okay, bye forever I don't appreciate this behavior. All right Cool