 Thank you for staying with us. You're still watching The Request on Plus TV Africa and right now it's time for our next hot topic We're talking about Nigeria ranking and 10th in Africa's most unsafe countries for women Joining me to have a conversation is Frances Olisa Ogunaya. She's a broadcast journalist and women in leadership Advocates. Good morning, Frances. Thank you for joining us Good morning. It's good to be there. Okay fantastic. So we're talking about Nigeria being the 10th most unsafe African countries for women. First, when you saw this headline I want to get your initial thoughts on this. Do you think it's true? Do you think it isn't? And what has been, you know, your own experience even here in Nigeria? Okay, you know, there are tons of reports like that. Most times from organizations Most times from self-induced, some reports are self-induced. Some are also very very genuine reports So when I saw the report, I was like, I was taking it back a little bit But then I had to look at it critically to see as a team, especially looking at the countries they placed before us and after us So actually, I also look at the factors they have picked between they considered And I begin to say there's some atom of truth to what they're saying For example, they mentioned politically targeted violence against women I think from that axis, they also talked about, they also mentioned the fact that they looked at the drastic reduction of number of women in politics in national assembly They considered those facts. For them, these are the issues And they also looked at issues of education, which I do not find very true Because Manjish women are very educated. They looked at issues of employment They also looked at issues of laws And I do not believe them when it comes to the laws Because Nigeria, we are not short of laws when it comes to Gender-based violence against women We are not short of laws when it comes to domestic violence against women Lagos state government has a law of protecting persons against violence And the state government has laws against them Gender-based violence, same as Plastic state, most of the great state passed a wonderful law against women domestic violence So laws, I think when it comes to I just agree with them in the area of education, employment But then education and laws, I think you guys agree with them Because laws are not the problems we have in Nigeria The problem we have is implementation of those laws But I do agree with them when it comes to politically targeted violence against women I agree with them when the issue of financially induced violence against women I agree with them when it comes to There are many reports One out of every four women in Nigeria has suffered domestic violence And are currently suffering domestic violence Africa is somewhat true Sistine in the whole world According to a report by New York based organization Is my challenge They placed Nigeria 16 out of 17 countries of the world But I think it calls for concern For Nigeria in Africa to be placed alongside countries like South Sudan Imagine, Nigerian leaders need to think Women organizations need to think First bands need to think The men need to think Because most of the violence against women Tilt towards men To what is being swelled by men So that's what I think Okay, so I highlighted some factors The political one, the domestic violence and all of that I was going to ask So what are some societal norms that you think Threatened the safety of women in Nigeria You've said the government needs to look at this There are laws But still there are some men who Will still be violent towards women Right So what are some societal norms that you think Just threaten our safety Because there are times that Some cultures might even approve of this So what do you think? Okay, yes There are places South East is one of those places You know Then the northern part of the country is one of those places Where Women, especially when a woman loses the husband You know The violence against women Is just one thing that Is how the government should be To take very, very seriously Women are compelled to shave their heads Against their wish You know, all in the name of norms and cultures Not for our customs Norms are meant for man And not man for the custom You understand If you tell me it's custom There are some customs that they no longer practice Men were supposed Women were supposed to stay at home Why men go to hunt for women No, they don't hunt anymore If men no longer go to become hunters To fetch meat and whatever for the family Then why do you still compel women To shave their heads simply because They lost a husband She lost a husband When their wives died You compelled men to shave their heads If one chooses to do that as a sign of money For the husband It should be personal Women are subjected to these norms And sometimes it comes with friction Some violence is Then in some places Where a widow is accused Accused to kill their husband And you'd be surprised that One million members of the society Will be standing in tandem With those people accusing the woman So sometimes I get to ask them Why would somebody wake up And kill the husband For what, you know Is this what I'm going to do when I evolve Is she going to defend for them So and that One of those norms called short Are things that need to be looked at Of course we're not talking We're not even going to say anything about the Religious factors in the north Nobody wants to talk about them Because most of them would might see And that we should begin to Adjust some of these things If a woman decides That she will cover her head Cover everything for her husband As well Women shouldn't be compelled Into doing these things Women should be allowed To make free choices Those are the remote causes Of violence against women Okay so I wanted to take it To the economic side Right now So do you think there are some You know Maybe with the economic situation Of Nigeria Especially You know for vulnerable women In some communities Now do you think that also You know pose as a threat To women Because I mean there's no money Most times they have to stay with a man Who is violent And you don't have a choice So do you think that also Posed as a factor as well Okay and now the truth is That financial issues Is one of the major Major challenges But then And we don't have Our society is one That has not always favored women When it comes to economic relevance In the sense that Making money is actually hard It's most often than not Is emotionally draining Is energy sapping And most women Spend some of this energy Raising children That they might not have time To actually They might not combine properly But the woman and man Is sad only most often than not The responsibility Of just looking for money But now in today The woman has to Spend energy looking for money Just like men They also have to spend energy Taking care of the home front All these things they can They find it hard to balance And at the end of the day Emotional frustration sets them And that's where Violence begins The man talks The woman talks back And the whole issue begins to start Boy you know There's a domestic violence This is Which contributes Like 35% of this violence against women Domestic violence Domestic violence I A research was conducted About 60% of women Do not have airtime in their home You know Most of them have to Wait for their horseback You know So the society has Was not structured in a way To favor women economically Unlike you have in the western world So It's something that will have to take time Female graduate People that left the We're called to back Look at the number of women there Enormous But at the end of the day Out of the in the next 30 years Out of that set 10 Supreme Court justices They will have 9 men And one woman Right It's the case Where by there was a 60% A 60% female 40% to care about But at the end of the day You realize you only see men Get into the Top Top Who contributed to the highest number of the whole thing Become at the Keeps thing at the bottom part So this is the issue It's a structural problem It's a structural problem that I need that I believe that will take time You know systemic But we keep studying Education wise We just keep studying Waiting for the right Right policies The people who will drive the change And the only way to drive the change like I said It's only when women begin to apply Wonderful positions They will make a lot of big ups Right So what are some government policies or initiatives That you think can be introduced To ensure the safety of women Because I mean government has a big role to play Fine I know there are NGOs There are You know people just doing their advocacy To ensure that you know Women have more education in this They know their rights They know what they should want And just like how you're saying it Women need to You know just look for each other Look out for each other And fight for what we want really But when the government has to do something What are things the government can do Or initiatives that can be put in place To ensure that women are safe in Nigeria Okay, first of all Before we talk about the government I want to actually add money And actually call on women Women-based organizations to become True to themselves They should be considered with that advocacy Most of them often than not I am scared and I stand to be quoted They establish these agencies to make money for themselves Most of them do not genuinely Fight for the cost of the television Or before they get all the relevance they want Get some of these donor agencies Get some money Before they are living large on women advocacy You understand We must be true to ourselves first of all When it comes to the agencies When it comes to the NGOs Before we go to the government Then going to the government Like I said before now Government is not sort of laws And we are asking them to establish laws Because the laws are already there Now So when they kill their wives Their wives and wives in Lagos We are yet to hear My mother's case man The man from Mary Killed his wife Oh, Sinachi And then up to now They are still It's them to show their allegedly They are allegedly killed their wives And we keep going back and forth Back and forth on these things That should be serious and genuine And intentional implementation of the existing laws There are laws They are already laws like I said There are laws against women Women women women with disabilities There are laws against women When it comes to women Domestic violence All the gender based violence We need to actually one more time Establish a law Based on politically targeted violence against women If you can get that right Then we'll not begin to talk about Implementation again But like I said, implementation is the problem Governments should stop paying Leave services to women development They should quit paying Leave services to gender based violence Who governance wives have the laws Have rules to play They should sit up Because they could be behind They do not mean That tomorrow Wives of the governance should sit up And help and advocate For women's safety in their state Wives of the governance The men can't be fought and that is the truth I love the fact that You just talked about governor's wives Or even women in politics Because at the end of the day They have a position And when you have a position or a platform Whatever you say can be put into law Or people respect that So you expect that These women The women who are the wives of governors and senators They need to do a lot of advocacy And so I'm a woman I want to feel safe And I'm sure any woman Even in the village In the little corner that she is Also wants to feel safe So do you think that Our politicians The wives Do you think you're doing enough advocacy To ensure that the women They know their rights One Two Whatever laws that we have are being executed In case anyone falls short of it And then Three Just ensuring that we have a safety A safe situation or rather For women Okay, first of all I just mentioned governor's wives No, many of them Some of them will say An unconstitutional office I think they need to look at the constitution And so that they can begin to Give a mention to the offices of the governor's wives Most of them Have to make more money than their husbands Yeah, these offices are unconstitutional They are not mentioned in the constitution I think there should be A constitutional process Where they will be mentioned With some of the rules they are made to play Mentioned there So that way We can hold the wives of the governor's Responsible Because right now We can't really hold them to anything They send to female politicians For female politicians We believe they should do more Considering what they have also been through Because a good number of them Have been through a whole lot So we are expecting them to Out of their own experience Experience that many of us have To speak up for the Coming generations If they feel they have Made the way for their own children Probably because of the position They are quite today Nobody knows tomorrow like I tell them So I think the wives of the governor They are not doing enough And I think it stands on the fact That they are quite offices That are strange to the laws So if we can begin to Give that offices Mentioned In the constitution All by laws or state laws We can begin to hold them to something But beyond mentioning that In the constitution and the laws of the state I urge governors' wives To sit up for the appeal of women I urge them and I plead with them And I beg them To begin to look at women's safety Most of them Their husbands do not construct roads They don't put streets right in the street light Even in Los Angeles Women get raped on days What are they doing about it? When your husband has got to do Some of the things he has to do Why not step in by ameliorating You know And another way they can do Is by generating empowerment of a woman Like we said We talk about the financial Financial induced violence So if they can begin to generate power Women And then the power of women Is the power of women You know There are things you cannot do to me Francis Because I got some money myself But I will take care of that I like that Yes But there are people Who can take so many things For the time till their violent husband Was due to hunger They couldn't take care of their children And they had to And they would not come to you and say Ah Don't go back home Go back you are You will say ah You could be managed in it And you just go back If this man is violent You bounce You move You get So you begin to From there you begin to plan So we think One of the ways is to generally empower women And financially, economically And the wives of governors Commissioners Commissioner for women affairs can do it But there most often they are not in many states Office of the commissioner for women affairs And that for special advisor Are eroded By that of the wives of the governors So that's why I'm doing it I'm not calling on commissioners Why commissioners for women affairs No I'm not calling on special advisors of women I'm calling on governors why Because most often they are not They beat these drums at home And the commissioner for women affairs And maybe special advisor of women Or gender issues Becomes redundant So they should generally sit up They should generally sit up They enjoy if they nobody knows tomorrow I agree with you And then I was going to say It shouldn't even be limited to Just the governor's wives And the female politicians I think anyone in power Should just find a way To ensure that the next woman is safe Because it can come to your house It might be them today It might be you tomorrow So as long as you're in power As long as you have some form of platform You should be able to say You know what This is a cause that I'm championing This is a cause that I want Every woman to be safe For instance You know a man can walk down the road At about 11pm And it's fine And no one is looking at him But when a woman is walking down the road You're not comfortable Most times you're even You know looking behind you To be sure that you're safe So there is that anxiety that comes with it And we want a country that is safe For everyone And before I let you go I'm just going to ask one last question Is do you think we need some form Of international collaborations You know just to ensure that All of this advocacy These things that we're saying Our voices are being heard And then even for the men as well Do they need some form of education To know that They shouldn't be hitting women There should be no gender-based violence There should be no reason Why you would want to make Another woman unsafe In a country that is for everyone Yes of course I think we have consecrated Thanks so much to getting women On gender-based violence That we've not demand If we can begin to train women Men begin to educate them Begin to orientate them Let them understand that These things are not right These things they could be your wife They could be your mother They could be your daughters They could be your sisters You know I think more education should go Into that many Into that part of the society Basically our The other gender that we call them To begin to understand that A woman A woman in his care should be safe Right And if you do not want a woman You let the woman go You know so and then Other issues Be it your father Be it your sister Be it a friend Be it the wife A mother I think hitting a woman Is that that's why the laws already there But they do not implement them Who will implement them? Even men A good number of the police Are doing not demand Right Who do you go to? They are men So these laws are there There are international agencies There have been a lot of international agencies Working with other agencies here in Nigeria But like I said Locally based NGOs Should begin to be truthful When they get phone from the international agency They should spend their time All right We want to say thank you for coming It's been a wonderful conversation With you Thank you for coming And you know just sharing your valuable contributions Thank you so much Francis Thank you very much I'll see you tomorrow then Yes All right That's Francis Ulysse Ogunaya She's a broadcast journalist And women in leadership advocate We've just been talking about the safety of women In Nigeria And this stems from the reports that says Nigeria ranks 10th for women's safety in Africa Anyways, this is our size of the show This is where we have to wrap it up today It's been amazing having a breakfast with you I would see you again tomorrow My name is Rume Paulson Have an amazing day