 This is theCUBE, SiliconANGLE's production. We're live at VMworld 2013. We've been going now, this is day two, wall-to-wall coverage, and we're going to continue tonight. Stu, we're going to be at AT&T Park, the NetApp customer event. Last year we were there, but we weren't live. This year we've got live ping-power and pipe. We'll be on the field at AT&T Park. It's going to be awesome. You see if you can get some great photos like last year, Dave. I mean, all over the Valley News when you had Pat Gelsinger wearing the NetApp jersey last year. I don't think Pat's going to be there tonight, but I'm sure somebody from VMware will be there, all the NetApp execs, but really the focus is on the customers. What I like about that event is it's a customer event. It's enterprises, it's cloud service providers, it's partners, and yeah, there'll be some NetApp executives there as well coming on theCUBE, so we'll be broadcasting there live. We start at 6 p.m. Pacific time. So watch for that, but if we're here at VMworld in Moscone, Stu, another big day on theCUBE. We heard Carl Eschenbach this morning talk about really a lot of, you know, meat and potatoes discussion about what they're doing. He pretty much took over for Steve Herrod's keynote, had a lot of demos, you know, a lot of detail about what they're doing with product and, you know, proof points. Not big vision is what we're going to do next year. It's really about, it's what we're doing now. So one of the things I want to try to unpack to you a little bit is the whole SDN piece. We saw yesterday during Pat's keynote a very simple conceptual demo of SDN. Martin, who's coming on tomorrow at theCUBE, we'll talk about that in a minute, gave that demo. Talk about networking and SDN, Stu. Is it really going to be as easy as that discussion implied? No, Dave, absolutely not. I mean, we've talked a lot about storage, you know, at the Wikibon community, and we know how reticent storage people are to change. And I tell you, networking people are no better. And as a matter of fact, they're usually more risk-averse because if the network goes down, the business just stops. I mean, it's bad if you lose data, but if I can't get to anything, it's just a little bad. Yeah, that's a good point. So lose a packet, no problem, just resend the data. But network goes down, big problem. Network's down. Absolutely. So, you know, we've looked at NICERA pre-acquisition and really, really cool stuff. You look at the customers that they put out on stage, you know, Citi, eBay and GE, those guys, some of the large telecoms, you know, global service providers, these are the ones that are adopting SDN. You know, it's well-known, Google's been using SDN for a couple of years. So these really big guys, absolutely they're jumping on this trend. But to get from a legacy environment to a new environment is not going to be easy for the average enterprise because the big guys, they're building a new data center, putting out new racks all the time. So it's much easier for them to adopt that. If you look at refresh cycles in the enterprise, it takes a lot longer to make something that even if it's a radical evolution, it's a lot of change for most enterprises. Yeah, so it was interesting, you saw the partner slide up there, no Cisco. Yeah. A lot of people talking about that. Yeah, we had a great interview yesterday and I got a lot of feedback as to, you know, where are Cisco and VMware? Where are they friends and where are they frenemies? Well, so I mean, we'll help our audience understand that. I mean, basically what I'm hearing is that VMware is going to do, try to do, to networking what it did to compute. Now, Karl made the point today, Intel sold a lot more servers. But the server industry in a way also consolidated. You know, the server guys were some pressure. They didn't own the hypervisor. They were saying, shoot, we missed that one. Why didn't we buy VMware? IBM said, why didn't we think of that? Even though they invented all this stuff. So while VMware's discourse in the industry is very positive and it'll be okay, Cisco's got to be concerned about this, striking back in their own way. So help us squit through that. Sure, so one of the things that was really interesting is VMware showed how many ports there are in the world. There's physical ports and there're virtual ports and in 2012, virtual ports surpassed physical ports. And it's nice to say that you've got more networking administrators here at VMworld than you had at Cisco Live. But the reality is, there still is that difference between a network administrator and a virtualization administrator. It's been a big challenge as to how do we bridge that gap, Cisco's had solutions in there and NSX is trying to help bridge that physical to virtual world and they're building that ecosystem to try to fix that problem because today it's two different networks. I've got my virtual and I've got my physical. You got your underlays and overlays now and all the different ways to hook into it. And we really do need to simplify networking because today it's a mess of protocols and physical versus virtual and the WAN are all different separate. The Wi-Fi, there's so many subparts of networking and it is a complex arcane environment that is long overdue to be fixed. And VMware wants to make networking and storage invisible, right? Okay, but do Cisco and EMC, for example, want VMware to make storage and networking invisible? Yeah, great question. So of course Cisco doesn't want networking to be invisible. Cisco at the end of the day wants more packets going over their infrastructure and cores. So software's fine, they've got solutions that they're putting out there and Cisco's got the firewalls and load balancers and all those things that they can put as a service in their environment. And EMC, of course, is going to be tightly tied to VMware. We know how closely EMC and VMware are working together. There are new changes coming to storage, things like what VVOLs should radically change the way storage is done. However, EMC is saying that they're tightly tied and going to ride that next wave. If it's done right, it should lead new opportunities for some of the startups in the space that are closely tied into virtual environments to do things better and much cheaper. So from EMC standpoint, from Joe Tucci, I should say standpoint, it kind of doesn't matter. Let VMware grab as much of the storage stack as is appropriate and let EMC fight it out with NetApp and Hitachi and IBM and HP and everybody else. Ultimately, it's not a zero sum game for us. We can play in both camps. Cisco, even though it has some shares in VMware, a little different, they got a lot more to lose. What if Cisco had purchased VMware? What would that have, how would it have been different? How would they be driving networking? What would, because they have two thirds of the market, would SDN accelerate if Cisco owned VMware? What if there was no friction, no corporate organizational friction? To be honest, I'd be a little concerned because if I look in the industry, InfiniBand had a lot of potential out there and one of the coolest companies out there was one called Topspin. It was being integrated into all the blade servers and Cisco bought it and they basically killed the product line and it was decimating to the ecosystem for many years. InfiniBand has never recovered from that. Because of their interest in Ethernet. Yeah, so Cisco wants packets going over their cores, that they're highly tied to it. One of the things we've been a little critical on VMware is have they been slowing down innovation in the storage world due to what their relationship with EMC? Even the announcements that came out today, V-Vols and V-SAN, they're not shipping yet and it's going slow. So have they, in your opinion? So I think that it is definitely not going as fast. So Chad's coming on tomorrow, right? And Chad's like, no way, wouldn't do that, Joe wouldn't allow it, et cetera. So we're going to push him on that a little bit. But there's evidence of that, right? Dave, I was talking to a startup today that is a partner of VMware and they said one of the challenges is when they find an issue that's going to slow them down, they might not get as fast a response as the big guy, just because their use case is a corner case to VMware. However, it's going to stop that startup from really being able to push that deployment out there as opposed to the big guys just say, hey, I've got thousands of customers already running this and all the big banks and everything. So go fix it. Well, and we saw on the SDS logo slide, the ecosystem slide, there were what David Floyer calls the cartel. Now there was more of the fusion IO was on there, but Tintry wasn't on there, I don't think. At least I didn't see him, a lot of the smaller flash vendors, you didn't see Violin on there, you didn't see Pure, you didn't see Nimbus. So we are seeing V-Volls is out there. Actually, David Floyer sat down with Tintry and said that they've got some of the best V-Volls integration that he's seen. So there is the opportunity that V-Volls can kind of change that integration discussion. The scorecard that we've done over the last couple of years kind of matches up the legacy environments a little more and we're looking to see how some of the hybrid and VMware type solutions fit into that a little bit better in this new realm of the software defined storage environment. Yeah, so speaking of which, Stu and David Floyer just published a study on multi-hypervisor environments, VMware dominant in multi-hypervisor environments was the major finding, you can Google that on Wikibon and see that. And David Floyer just put up another analysis today, just another piece of that survey, looking at distribution of hypervisors and data centers today and in 18 months and then even though it's not virtualization related, Jeff Kelly put up the Hadoop NoSQL software and services market forecast today. So it's a slice on our big data forecast. For those of you who follow that big data forecast, Jeff Kelly published the industry's first big data forecast two years ago now and it's kept updating that. This to my knowledge, Stu, is the number, it's the first time anybody's ever published a Hadoop NoSQL software and services market forecast with market shares. So you've got the top 10 players in here, some great information, so check out wikibon.org, go to siliconangle.com, go to siliconangle or youtube.com slash siliconangle to check out all the videos here. Stu, thank you for helping me wrap up. I am off to AT&T Park to the NetApp event, so keep it there, we're going to switch over in a few minutes, but we're going to go live from AT&T at 6 p.m. So this is day two, tomorrow, just a quick plug for tomorrow, we start at, let's see, 9 a.m. tomorrow. Oh that's right, oh 9 a.m. tomorrow, Pacific time, we've got Pat Gelsinger, so prime time, east coast time, sit down, grab a sandwich, click on siliconangle.tv, Pat Gelsinger's coming on here live, really excited about that, Sean Douglas is coming on, he's the CTO of Service Mesh, always a great guest. The CTO of Service Now is coming on, if you don't know Service Now, you should get to know Service Now, one of the most interesting companies in the business, R&A Josephsburg is their CTO, he's coming on, Martin Casado is coming on, he was the former CEO of NYSERA. CTO, sorry, Bill Fathers is coming on, he's running EMC, VMware's Hybrid Cloud Service, we've got an open stack discussion tomorrow, Sanjay Poonan is coming on, new VMware executive came over from SAP, great hire by VMware, really to drive some of the end user computing business, QMOS Network's coming on, we've got a bunch of guys from EMC, Rackspace, who else we have here, Chad Sackage coming on tomorrow, just a number of great guests, so stay tuned tomorrow, keep the tweets coming, I'm at Dave Vellante, he's at Stu, at Furrier is my co-host during most of the time here, that's a wrap today of day two, here live from the Moscone, if you're here, come in, Moscone South, street level, take a right turn, that's just before the escalators can't miss us, I'm Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman, we'll see you tomorrow.