 Can put it over there Which is fine Okay, hey friends is Dan Stephanie Burke you're watching behind the scenes divine intimacy radio God be praised we're in our new studio and We're good We're in our new studio, and we're working out all the bugs. It's not completely done, but it's the studio is at Also our new home base for Avila and the obviously VA community It's our Lady of Mount Carmel Retreat and Center for Spiritual Formation in Beautiful Montgomery, Alabama. It's amazing here. I'm so excited to be here Yeah, and and I know that some of our watchers will be happy because one of the things that we fixed with our new studio is that I no Longer look like I'm an alien from space. There's no rings of light in my glasses So Jordan's done Jordan our producer producer son Extraordinaire has done an amazing job setting up the studio. It's comfortable. It's great. We can have guests on site So awesome, I love it. Yeah, so yeah, it is really an amazing place and it's 60 acres 16 acre lake and It's designed to It's not a retreat center in the sense of we're trying to always fill it as a Financial thing it's not that it's It's more of a I don't know what you might call a private retreat center. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, so it it certainly We don't have a website yet or anything but Apostoli VA org will be where that is eventually But the goal is is to provide specific kinds of retreats and spiritual exercises and spiritual formation so We're very happy about it the the building we're in is the new headquarters for Abbey Leathers two buildings the main house which Will when we're done and the next few months will occupy about 12 visitors at a time and then the The house we're in We'll house the in the Abel a team at least those that are in Monk in Alabama and who want to be or that travel in or whatever It's a great place to come together and work together and the setting is beautiful. Yeah, incredibly peaceful I'll tell you what you you extricate yourself from the middle of city life and All of heaven is out in the country. It's beautiful. It is. It's amazing. It's quiet But even so 30 minutes from Montgomery airport, right? No air traffic over where we are which is also nice. Yeah So, uh, you before we jump into the show you want to tell folks about Our opportunities for formation we have going on. Yeah, a few Upcoming things that you need to know about First of all, we want to remind you to go to spiritualdirection.com and subscribe To it so that you can keep up with everything that's going on Also, follow us on instagram at at catholic spiritual direction and facebook.com Forward slash catholic direction. So there you can keep up with all of our comings and goings An upcoming event that is in just a few days Is the rosary crusade Um to push back the darkness and i'm so excited about this event It will be this coming thursday october 7th beginning at 6 30 p.m. Central standard time We have amazing hosts like bishops stricklin cardinal Arborellius archbishop gomez archbishop cordon cordon cordelione Sorry and many more who will be providing reflections for us. Uh, we have special guests like johnette, uh, benkovick um, williams now and uh, jonathan roomy is going to be dropping in Uh, christophonic all kinds of really wonderful catholic leaders and evangelists the list goes on and on i can't possibly remember all of them Yeah, and uh, they're going to be leading us through the rosary you you and i Will be leading a portion of the rosary. We'll welcome everybody and close it out And so, um, it's online. It's free and you can find it at spiritualdirection.com forward slash events We've already had thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of people register for it. So don't miss out Register and share it with your friends and family share it out on facebook and all your social media Because we want to join together to push back the darkness spiritualdirection.com and it's really a Prayer for the blessed mother's intervention To push for us The darkness inside the church and outside both. Yeah a lot of tough stuff going on. Yeah, so lots of love Enjoy in that event. So come join us the next Event is the virtual silent auction. It has already started. It's october 1st through the 14th There are sneak peeks going on now and you can find it also at spiritualdirection.com forward slash events That is meant to support the work of the avala foundation and the ministry of apostole so the new offices and All the work that's going on there And then also another retreat and guys. I hope your ears are perking up or Our ladies in your marriages For divine intimacy in marriage retreat coming on february 11th through the 13th of 2022 It'll be at the shrine of the most blessed sacrament in handsville, alabama We promise we won't make you sing kubayah or hold hands or stand in a circle You are coming to do the hard work and the beautiful amazing work of Improving your marriage and it's called divine intimacy and marriage ascent to oneness Oneness with a little o and oneness with a big o so and so please come I got to say this to the guys if your points inventory is depleting This is a great way to get it Filled up again if the ladies are wondering what that is that's secret language So it's that's only for the guys and also for the guys It this is not a I don't know. I'm no fan of weird sissy. You know trying to elicit emotion stuff Manipulate manipulative stuff. So This is really just about getting down Into the depths of what it means to be an authentic Christian catholic husband an authentic catholic wife What is god's will for each of us? How do we deal with the junk? That keeps us from the being the best that we're you know called to be so and it's really for anybody This isn't just for those who might be struggling though. It can do a lot of good in that area We've had engaged couples come we've had people at the beginning of their marriage Who don't have children who have six children that they're arranging for child care for 50 years People have been married 50 years people who are you know been together forever people who have been Divorced annulled and remarried Listen, if there's something for everybody here. So please come and we would love to have you at this event It will fill up. So this is february 11th through the 13th 2022 Spiritualdirection.com forward slash events for these events and all others. There you go on your mark You ready to hit jump into the show? Sure On your mark it said go This is dan and stephanie berk. Welcome to divine intimacy radio Your radio haven of rest your hermitage of the heart your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven To the wisdom of the saints to the magisterium of the church to draw the necessary sustenance for this very challenging life to get through and not not just survive, but I think even in the darkest times the most difficult times What you have happening in the church is that the holy spirit the blessed trinity gives you more Grace and more ability to do whatever you need to do to face whatever you need to face so But we have to avail ourselves of it of what the lord desires to give us And so we can be lights in the darkness We can have joy in the midst of all of this difficulty We can face it with courage and with peace With joy and courage and peace amen Courage and peace all right, so today's show we're going to talk a little bit about contemplative prayer And uh, we're going to go ahead and just jump into questions that folks have sent in about this topic Okay, and talk a little bit about it. So The first question is regarding contemplative prayer Where does one place petitions and this person has multiple so let's address that one One of the things we teach in a possibly via community is that Contemplative prayer one Just so we understand it you can't say It is it would it would be a false understanding misunderstanding false perception Of what contemplative prayer is to say I do contemplative prayer at this time or that time Or I practice contemplative prayer if you use that language There's a couple of reasons one you've been misled by the centering prayer movement or something like that Or uh, you just haven't ever received formation. So there isn't a time when we pray contemplative prayer There's a time when we practice Mental prayer or meditation or lexio divina That sort of thing Those times are meant to be times where we're filling our heart and mind with jesus And not petition time does that make sense right and to to basically prepare ourselves To avail ourselves of the possibility of contemplative prayer, which is strictly a gift Right, it's a gift freely given by the lord and we can we can open our hearts and minds And in our spirits and and all that we are to receive it and to draw near to him But it's not something that we can create on our own. So To recap Contemplative prayer Let's replace this question with a better Word, I think regarding meditation Or mental prayer. Where does one place petitions in the answer as you don't? Why is that so? Mental prayer or meditation is intended to be a time of intimacy with jesus A time when we're focused on him filling our hearts and minds with him falling in love with him Learning about his virtue seeking to emulate and understand So it's similar or something that that kind of prayer in that time of prayer is similar to marital intimacy And we don't do you know, we don't we don't say in marital intimacy Even when we're let's say in the lighter realm of intimacy on a date night at dinner We're rarely going to talk about Things that we want the other to do in terms of hey, can you get me some round up for the garden? Can you you know, can you pick this? A jug of milk up at the store. We don't do that. Why because we're there giving giving our heart and mind to the other focused on the other in terms of loving them in a particular way though Petitions doing things for one another outside of that time Can be good. It's it's a different kind of engagement. Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah, and I mean if somebody struggles with that because they've always kind of been in that realm I mean as you as you go into Meditation or lexiodivina you can offer that time of prayer for your loved ones. You can offer it You know lord, I offer this time of prayer for all those things on my heart and mind that you already know about As you're entering as you're entering in and just say I offer this for this purpose And then go in and spend that time with the lord in the in the deepest sense of the intimacy Looking fully, you know in his face and and seek him seek to know him on that very intimate way But what I love is and and what we talk about is tucking our petitions Into the I I say this Tucking the the petitions that we have into the hem Of our lady's garment through our rosary. I like tucking it into her hem Because it's not going to get lost there. We know that she's going to carry it with her She's going to carry it in her her beautiful and perfect hands She's going to offer it to god the father and to her son through the blood of jesus And she will ensure that the lord hears our prayer We can be assured he hears our petitions if we entrust them to our lady and just tuck them into the hem of her garment Yeah, so meditation lexio divina mental prayer Is purely focused on a loving interaction with the other The rosary is uh, the time where we teach that you should It's a good time for petitions not When I say you should or we believe or you know It's it's not a there's no rule in the church anywhere, right? Right, we're just telling you what I think is good advice good wisdom Because if you don't protect the intimacy time, then it becomes petition And then all you're doing is you start to worry like I don't so Stephanie may be able to do what she said Which is I'm heading into mental prayer. I'm offering it up for these reasons I can't do that because I'll start thinking about all those Things that I care about or I'm concerned about like Our granddaughter or you know Jordan or a family member who's struggling or whatever So I don't do that for me. I just go first thing in the morning. It's lights out. I'm with the lord Nothing not even not much even preparation wise Just to keep my out of control brain, you know calm down But regardless if you can do it Stephanie said do that But regardless protect that time and do your petitions outside of that time, right? Just like you would never You know talk about shopping lists when you're in the marital embrace You wouldn't you would never do that with God when you're paying attention to him in terms of Filling your heart and mind with the person in work of Jesus, right? So I the the next part of the question is Um Well, they they elaborated because they said I've heard Dan say he does this before Rosary, which is right. However, most days I would also like to dialogue with God about deep issues family life Can this come before meditation? Yeah, I mean, um Uh You can do it anytime you want Just try to keep the more intimate Jesus focus time On protected so But there's no rule, right? I mean you we do it with rosary You can do it Uh in night prayer like at night when we do compland in the evening. We do it in community We talk about um our our uh Thanksgiving what you know what we're grateful for and then we do our examination of conscience I think it was last night. I offered up something there in That noon prayer also in community We do petitions before noon prayer what we're offering it up for our inventions Yeah, and I think what what's important too is to Remember that when you go to this time of mental prayer This intimacy availing yourself of all the gifts that the Lord wants to pour out the grace That we go to it. Um rather passively and receptively. I I like to call it like passive receptivity Where we're resting we're opening ourselves to receive what he has for us to listen attentively to what's happening Um rather than you know lord, I really wish you know, you'd you'd get on the ball about you know x y z family member or my financial issues and and and start that dialogue Rather because that becomes active when our mind becomes very very active in in that realm Where we're talking internally and having a dialogue You know, just as i'm talking to you It's hard for me to receive what you say to me if i'm busy talking To you and over you right there has to be a time when I sit back and I listen I turn my attention to receiving what you have for me And we need to do the same in our mental prayer Is filling our hearts and minds with God in in the different mysteries of the rosary or In the you know the scenes of the gospel or whatever gospel passage or a psalm or whatever it is We we read it we allow it to ruminate in us and then we listen And we receive it whether we perceive what that anything's happening or not We can be assured that it is yeah, I agree with you very well. That's all very well said um Okay, so If by the way, you are listening and you're saying well, I think I am confused about what contemplative prayer is and What meditation is I've written a book called Um into the deep finding peace through prayer. It's published by sophia institute press Well, it's available through sophia. I should say it's published by Dynamic catholic, but you can get it at ewtn's religious catalog as well. We're grateful for ewtn for carrying divine intimacy radio But uh, so it's called into the deep finding peace through prayer and uh, and there's also free courses on prayer out in Apostle eva.org where we walk through the book that sort of thing. Yeah, and um, just last week So it'll be up on spiritual direction.com pretty soon I did do a webinar with conny rossini on the contemplative rosary and we actually spent most of the time Talking about what contemplative prayer wasn't and what it is and and how to how to avail ourselves of it So, um, anyway, it's it actually turned out to be mostly about contemplative prayer Which I found delightful to speak to conny about it. So anyway, that's another resource for you. That's great Yeah, I mean spiritual direction.com and possibly va.org avalanche institute the whole our whole life really is wrapped around Uh, how to help people come to know intimacy with god and understand what it means to be one with him and the contemplative life So really endless well of resources for you spiritual direction.com. It's the easiest front door. It has thousands of articles and then the other two have more Apostle a va.org has free courses avalanche institute has paid courses We teach priests religious and lady and I don't know 70 or 80 countries now 90 countries Yeah, yeah, so it's pretty cool. And I mean in the end the lord desires To pour himself out upon you So it's it's a matter of drawing near to him asking for his help Asking him to show you how to go deeper in prayer and to receive all that he has for you and disposing your life and Aligning your life to all these Graces that he's just waiting to pour out upon you because you are his beloved son or daughter Amen, we get back from the break. We'll talk about prayer of quiet of quiet, which is a A form of prayer that the lord gives us in the realm of contemplative prayer in the illuminative way So we'll be right back So what I just realized is we've yet to set up your exit from the show Here so you might pull it up on your phone or text Maggie and have her send it to you Okay, and then that way I'll I'll have a little time Uh It's in the liturgy of the hours the version we use May they got a piece right Uh, so at the beginning of the second half, I'll be talking a good bit. So you'll have some time to get I also I also have The upcoming courses. Okay. You want to go over that right now? Yeah, go ahead. Do you want to do that real quick? Well, yeah, I have it. I have it Out Outro spiritualdirection.com spiritualdirection.com spiritualdirection.com. That's the Yeah, commercial. Yes. Uh, so Let's see. Okay. Okay. So some of the uh upcoming courses that we want to let you know about One of those courses is called why all people suffer? That should Really interest a lot of people It's taught by dr. Paul shillou C-h-a-l-o-u-x In this course students will discuss why all people suffer using Dr. Paul shillou's book as the base topics will be covered That include rethinking suffering natural evil in the contingent world and answering the call To share in the nature of god really important. It begins on monday october 25th And you can find this at avala-institute.org. It is part of the school of spiritual formation. So it is Studies that are available to most anybody even including busy moms So it shouldn't be it's not graduate level, but it is deep and beautiful without being overwhelming We also have the course masterpiece of the divine artist And this is talked taught by the wonderful dr. Elizabeth Mitchell And the description of this course is dr. Edith stein addresses the concept of beauty and sanctity Between the divine artist and his living artwork in there in her own life and thought the outcome of such Collaboration is the splendor of the human soul drawn near to divine beauty by grace living images That declare the divine love to which they have been responding Surpassing even the most stunning material artwork. This will be an amazing course It begins friday november november. You need to apply by friday november 5th That's pretty quick. That's yeah. No november 5th. Oh november. Oh, we're october Also part of the school of spiritual formation. So check it out for the sign up At avala-institute.org avala-institute.org. Don't miss these courses. They're amazing. All right, ready to head back in I am and your market to go. This is danis effing burke. Welcome back to divine intimacy radio your radio haven abreast on uwtn uwtn's network. We're grateful to uwtn for Allowing us to do the show and for helping you in your interior life and whatever way we can serve you With the teachings of the church. So the next question is we're in a q&a question today on prayer uh contemplative prayer primarily Regarding the interior castles does one ever experience the prayer of quiet a handful of times before actually entering into the Fifth man fourth mansion Maybe well only in the third perhaps as a foretaste and encouragement from god to keep going question mark um Yeah, so that's one question. So let me There's a lot of people out there going well, what is the prayer of quiet? What does that mean? So what that means is there is a There are nine stages of prayer according to st Teresa of Avila and the earlier stages of prayer are Can be understood As discursive meditation affective meditation That's in the purgative way once you begin to move Into the depth depths of the purgative way. There are three stages to the interior life Three phases maybe that's way of saying it and nine stages of prayer dispersed in those three phases So the first phase of prayer really is about meditation Near the end of the purgative way what happens is people become begin to become free Of habitual mortal and venial sin, right? So as they're free of habitual mortal and venial sin the Their prayer begins to change right assuming they're they've got a daily practice of mental prayer so Then what occurs typically is that the prayer of quiet enters in so a person is drawn to a simpler kind of prayer Depending on which book you read and where and in of Teresa there's an acquired recollection which is In the realm of the prayer of quiet and then an infused recollection Which would be more after that And then you're moving into the contemplative way The first Stop if you will or one of the first stops in the contemplative realm is called the prayer of quiet And the definition i'm going to give you is relates to sainte Teresa Vivaldi's teachings that She's of course a doctor of the church and the one that we look to for these things So the prayer of quiet is a type of mystical prayer in which we Have an intimate awareness of God's presence that captivates the will Fills the soul and body with ineffable sweetness and delight And the fundamental difference between the prayer of quiet and that have infused recollection Apart from the greater intensity of contemplative light and more intense consolation Is that the prayer of quiet gives the soul actual possession and joyful fruition Of the sovereign good, so you know the problem with that definition. It's a good definition but You know, it's very difficult to talk about these things unless you've Experience them or unless you're close to the experience Unless you've experienced them or you're close to the experience So the question they asked is Regarding interior castles does one ever experience prayer of quiet a handful of times before actually entering into the fourth mansion While maybe only in the third So i'm going to simplify the question because I don't think Parsing it that at that level is helpful to anyone But basically the question is I think if I could restate it would be Can does God allow you to experience contemplative prayer? When you're in the purgative way when you're still working through all your junk To encourage you to deeper prayer later on and the answer is yes, he does So a Teresa Babel of course teaches this with with some clarity the And the reason is as the person asked Uh a foretaste and encouragement. So the Lord is saying there's something deeper out there for you Then even the very good and powerful meditation you're experiencing And if and just keep going right does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. It's like a good parent, right? Right. It's it's come this way come this way and A little bit is is you know, we we often describe it Padre Pio when he would run around He would have candy in his pocket to encourage children to come to him So he could give them a little sweet, you know, so the Lord As it were holds a little bit of his divine candy in his pocket And occasionally he gives that little piece of candy As we avail ourselves as we draw near to him as we glance towards heaven as we open our hearts and minds To everything that he has, you know that passive receptivity that I talk about And and so then he goes yes, yes daughter. Yes, you're on the right track. You're on the right track And he pours himself out upon us. Um, it brings delight. It purifies Um, it encourages its strengthens and you know, it's often as it's gone as quickly as it comes But it helps us to stay on the right track. I think otherwise, you know, prayer would just be, you know Just drudgery until the last and and he's a good father He knows that we can't just stay on a path that it's just drudgery If we're availing ourselves everything that he has if we're following if we're seeking him where our whole heart soul mind body He he wants to encourage us on that path He will reach down pick us up And and encourage us and then put us back down on the path to keep going. Amen. What's well said This is dan and stephanie berk. You're listening to divine intimacy radio your radio haven abreast And you can find us more you can connect directly with us actually stephanie and I out on a possibly va data work But you can also learn more at spiritualdirection.com Um next question is I uh, oh by the way for that person if you want to read, uh Good book on this topic There are a couple I would pick up pierre marie jens Um, he wrote two books on a synthesis of carmelite spirituality I want to see god and i'm a daughter of the church great text And then the third is spiritual theology by jordan amon. It's uh, he was a dominican who taught at the angelicum and um Did a good job of summarizing teresia's writings. It's a little more clinical the definition I read a minute ago is from amon And the to spell his name it's a u m a n n But pierre marie jen is actually venerable. I think so his writings are both uh scholarly clear sound but also he's Basically considered a saint at this point not fully canonized yet, but so his And his writings are different in that way you can feel so I want to see god. I am the daughter of the church or good text Um Next question. I think we have time for one more is I know there's no definitive answer, but can you give me the approximate duration of the night of sense? Is it months or years? The the night of sense so dark she's talking about the phases of purification That john of the cross teaches Most people are aware of this idea of the dark night of the soul And so there's the there's the active night of sense in the past of night and the active night of spirit I don't need to enunciate all of that perfectly because it's not important to the question, but Could you give approximate duration the answer is as long as you want it to be? Or don't want it to be in a sense, right? the So therese moved into this realm and through it before she died in her 20s Right st. Therese similar with katharine of sienna saint elizabeth of the trinity saint elizabeth of the trinity So they were very young and the reason they moved quickly through it is they were wholly given to god fully given to him So So for them it could have been months or a year or two years For others it could be 20 years It could be 30 years if you are con if you are not giving yourself to god fully You're not you don't understand what it means to be an authentic disciple of jesus You don't know you don't listen well when you need healing. You're not in spiritual direction. You're not fully engaged in the sacraments You know One I would say you're in you're in a little trouble if those things are not real You're not heading toward them, but also you're just not going to grow that quickly and so it could take 30 years It could take 50 years. Yeah, you know it could take 80 years So it just it depends on It depends on our willingness and openness and of course in the in the night of the spirit the um The the lord is in control also of how long it takes which may have to do with purification of pride and other things So there's no magic formula. There's not even an approximate that I can give right right It's really goes down to how big is your fiat? How big is your yes? Right and You know for me when when I finally Turned towards god my reversion Just shortly Before I met you and then I started on this path Of seeking direction and prayer and whatever I had suffered so much. It was so painful And no interest in going back to the darkness. And so I started to run I you know, is it of god? Yes. Is it of god? Yes. Will it help me be holy? Yes Will it help me to stop sinning? Yes, and I would just run and run and run after the lord You talk about how my yes was very big jordan's when he had his Reversion was huge as well. And so If you want to be done with it Go run like run like crazy find saints and run with them Yeah, find a great director out beg the lord to help you say lord. I I don't want to sin anymore I don't want anything that is not of you. Please help me and he will he will answer that That plea of your heart when you say I want nothing But what is of you and renounce the things of the world the flesh and the devil purge them from your life Be active in that part in cooperating with this call of the word and he will bring it Quickly if you are availing yourself of everything he has for you I think we have question answer time for one more question. I think So finally one praise for an hour each day. How much time do you do it to contemplation? After one meditates and that's back to the misunderstanding. You don't devote time to contemplation. You can't Create contemplation in terms of infused contemplation You do meditation and then the lord decides when Contemplative prayer comes. Yeah, and that really depends on A determination with your director. Yeah of what's appropriate for those that are beginning You know five minutes of mental prayer 15 minutes of mental prayer is huge if you've never prayed before If you try to do an hour, you're gonna Find yourself on your face Feeling like you've just racked and nothing's working and all of that and it's just you can't run a marathon In a day we have to work up to that. So The important thing is to begin to begin to begin So if you are inspired by this conversation and you want to know more and you want to dig deeper Or you want to find people who care about this kind of stuff and who talk about it all the time Head out to apostoleva.org. It's a p o s t o l i v i a e dot org That's our community. We're a private association the faithful. We're worldwide We have study groups all over the place all over the planet That meet on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. We do free formations second and fourth saturdays So we're actually coming up on one now And it's all for the sake of helping you to understand what it means to enter into union with god And to know a deeper relationship with him no peace in this life in this difficult and challenging life So head out to apostoleva.org and with that we're out of time Okay, until next time may the god of peace make you perfect in holiness May he preserve you whole and entire spirit soul and body irreproachable at the coming of our lord jesus christ Amen, all right very good