 Think Tech Hawaii. Civil engagement lives here. We're back 4 p.m. on a given Monday, wow. Isaac Kim, our old friend Isaac Kim, the grandson of Hock Kim. Yes, sir. Who's the best barber in all of Moiliili. Thank you, thank you. And who came back to take care of his granddad here, and he's been doing that for a while, and that's great to see that, great to see the structure of that family and of your family, of course. Thank you and thank you for having me again. I'm remarkable that you have achieved things that most people your age do not. You worked for L'Oreal for a while, you went to Columbia, your wife went to Columbia, and then you started this business, pilot men's business, and we talked about that last time, shot pleas of the pilot men's product, okay? And it's really good stuff. It's nicely designed. You made this happen. Thank you. The world doesn't know a boundary for you. We don't know how far or fast you're gonna go, but it's gonna be impressive. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, no, it's a lot of work, but I think hopefully it'll pay off. And what's interesting is, you know, when you get to a point in a given entrepreneurial experience where you don't have to be in the city where the places where the headquarters is, you could be anywhere, which is essentially what Isaac is doing. Exactly, yeah, nowadays, I mean, as long as I have the internet and the computer, good connection, you could really do a lot. Yeah, and you're earning a living, making a company, it's really remarkable. But when I met you last week, we ran into each other, you told me a story that I wanted to cover here on the show because I thought it was very important. Oh boy. In the confluence of the world as we know it today. And the story is your friend, John. Bomb. Bomb. Oh, bomb. Which I haven't seen him in a few days. I really wanted to ask him what he thought about, you know, sharing his story and all that, but I'll have to. You can call him John if you want. Yeah, let's call him John for anonymous purposes, no. So, you know, the title of the show, incidentally, is Dealing with Homelessness, One Person at a Time. And I was very touched by what you told me about John. Yeah, John. So tell everybody what's going on with John. Who is John and what is John doing and how did you run into him and what are you guys going with John? John, you know, he, I met him just completely randomly. He's actually been sleeping right in front of my grandfather, grandfather's barber shop for almost 10 years now. And he leaves really early in the morning, but we get there, you know, at six. So sometimes he's there, sometimes he's not. But over the past month or so, just slowly getting to know him. He's saying hi in the morning. All the business owners love him. I mean, he does no harm. He's a super nice guy. He cleans up the parking lot without anyone, you know, paying him or anything like that, just because he's so grateful that he has a place. It's his way of payback, yeah. Exactly. And it started with just, you know, giving him a real cheap blanket, like an airline blanket that I just so happened to have with me in my backpack. And from there, it really developed into building a great relationship. He's a wonderful, wonderful man. He's 58 years old. He's, you know, he's an army veteran. He has a son. Unfortunately, you know, he's on the streets now because, you know, if you don't have money and you can't afford a home, that means you're homeless. And, you know, through our conversations, I got to know him a lot more. Was able to do some really awesome things that were completely just so happened, you know, some punks stole his bike and just posted it real quick on the internet. Some guy donated his bike right away. All I had to do was go pick it up, which is just real great stuff. And right now we're just trying to work with him because, I mean, he's had jobs. I mean, he's not hopeless by any means. I mean, he's totally functional. Just a wonderful- Rational. Rational. You can have a conversation. Oh yeah, keeps up with all the news, all the politics through his radio and he loves discussing everything that's going on in the world. He knows what weather's coming. I mean, he's listening to it all day. And yeah, so over the last few weeks, we really just got to know each other. And I think just being there and just having a conversation is a huge part of just helping somebody. Yeah. Sure, because, you know, humanity is a social condition. You have to be able to talk to people if you're left in isolation and it makes you a little crazy. Yeah. And that's why I asked you if he's rational because everybody tells me that a lot of people who are homeless are no longer rational. Some people believe they were never rational. That's why they're homeless. I rather believe they were rational, but when they went homeless, they were isolated and the lack of human contact and compassion makes you a little crazy. You've got to have people around you. Yeah, I would think that that's got to be the case. I mean, just talking to him and as well as some of his friends that I've met, I mean, they're totally normal people and they used to have completely normalized. They used to be our neighbor. They used to be, you know, our friend or all sorts of things. So I don't think that's the case. And I think that stereotype needs to be a little altered. Yeah, yeah. So what does he do though, the mechanics of it, you know? I'm afraid that most, that myself included, most people don't know how a homeless person actually conducts his life or her life. I mean, what does he do to shower? What does he do to take a leak? What does he do to brush his teeth? I mean, how do they perform these basic functions or do they not perform these basic functions? I mean, unfortunately, they probably couldn't perform them as much as they would like. I think what's unique about Hawaii is at least there's certain showers and a bunch of water fountains and different ways you can get creative versus, you know, let's say in New York. So in that way, it's good. But in terms of his everyday, I mean, he's, I've talked to him about it and he says, you know, his brothers are all doing well. They're all retired Army, Navy officers. They're not homeless. Yeah, they have kids, they have house cars, they're comfortable. And they would say, or he was a little hurt when they would call him a bum, especially not that he's homeless, but looking at me dead in the eye, he said, I'm not a bum. And I totally know that all day long, I mean, he's worked, he's, you know, he wouldn't accept change from people. He's never held a sign asking for money. He's out there collecting bottles, recycling, doing things that most people just, a lot of people don't do, period, but he's there cleaning up after them. And that's actually his source of income. Unfortunately, in talking to him, I didn't realize, and now my, you know, now I really notice it, is when you see people, at least here in Hawaii, since I've been here, it's a competition for these cans. It's not easy. I mean, you think it's just a matter of going and finding all the bottles and going to the bars and whatnot, but everyone is doing this, every homeless person. Yeah, so there's only so many bottles. Yeah, so he has to go out certain times at night where it's not so safe, because that's the only time where he can find the largest amount of bottles or cans and whatnot. And what's really cool to see is also, I mean, maybe just because he is such a nice guy and just all the business owners within the whole plaza that my grandfather's in, a lot of them save up their cans, their bottles and stuff from home. And once a week or so, they bring it to him and they give him a banana or some juice. So in that way, I guess maybe he's received a little bit more love than some others would. But again, I think this problem is so widespread, but if you just make a little bit of the effort, I mean, it can make a huge difference, even just listening to how he does it. And I would have never really thought that there was so much competition, but when you think about it for half a second, it totally makes sense. How's his health? It's, I guess, relatively okay, but he does have a bunch of arthritis just all over. So that bike is so crucial. And so he was so bummed when he lost that bike. I mean, to carry all those bottles, he's 58 years old now. I mean, he doesn't have the best healthcare by any means. So being able to transport things, just something that you would think take for granted, I mean, is a huge part of it. Yeah. Well, the fact that he lost the bike when he took the bike away from him goes to the question of security. Security of property, whatever minimal property a homeless person would have, but also physical security of getting beat up. And there have been a number of stories in the paper about how some really nasty people would attack the most vulnerable of all, the homeless person and injure him or kill him. I wonder if this is a concern for John, Bob. Absolutely, absolutely. In fact, it's funny. The night that his bike was stolen was the only night where he slept with the bike outside away from the wall. There's the wall, there's him and then the bike, and that was the night it was stolen. And he had a concern about that. In fact, it was my fault. I actually asked him if he could, for one night, put it on the other side because I just painted the outside and it was still wet. Oh no. So I repainted my- I'm feeling guilty, eh? Yeah, yeah. So then, so he put it on the other side and literally that one time he put it outside of his, you know, not against the wall, not in between him and the wall, it was stolen by some kids. I mean, and who knows why they stole it. So cruel, they must have known it was important to him, you know? Yeah, or- It was his only possession, effectively. Yeah, basically. Yeah. What about going to the hospital? I mean, if he gets sick, what does he do? You know, what are his options? Honestly, I don't know. I don't think he really has any. I mean, I know that he, you know, is a veteran so that should be something he has, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have access to any real, you know, health care or whatnot. His family doesn't invite him in. They don't offer him a place. No, apparently, well, unfortunately, the last time he was, you know, he was still had three jobs and he actually moved to Las Vegas for six months to help out with his mother and uncle. And once they passed away, he came back here and things were a little too expensive and before he knew it, he was on the streets and it's been about 20 years now. He's not local. He was born in Pennsylvania, actually. But he came out here when he joined the army. So he's been here pretty much ever since with that exception of going back to Las Vegas for a little bit to help out his mother. You know a lot about him, Isaac. Yeah, I mean, I've been spending a good amount of time. I mean, he's a great, great guy and I guess what really struck me is his kindness, his just minimalism that he's totally fine with. But really, it gave me an opportunity to just kind of not only put my money where my mouth is because, you know, through my business, we donate this castile soap, which is, you know, you can use for everything to the homeless, kind of in bulk for every, you know, every time we sell a box, we donate one of those things. I try to help out in different non-profit organizations. But, you know, that's in a mass sort of way. And that's, you know, technically it's kind of easier to do. It's kind of out of sight, out of mind. And yeah, we're doing this, we're doing that. But here's a time where you can really develop a relationship with an individual, a person who just so happens to be homeless. And you've done that. Yeah. But I guess, I mean, I would ask you why have you taken the time? Why have you, you know, applied your resources? Why have you, you know, developed this relationship with John? You could do other things. There's lots of other things to do in the world, but you have dedicated your time to this one person. Who knows exactly why, but maybe it kind of just fell on my lap whether that's God just putting him there, right? He literally has been in front of my grandfather's shop for 10 years. And, you know, my grandfather doesn't speak the best English, but has left him alone. It's almost started with that simple, hey, please tell your grandfather that I'm so grateful that he lets me sit and sleep in front of his shop every day. And, you know, I guess that struck me and ever since, you know, if I see him in the morning, we'll just have a great conversation and talk about the news, talk about whatever. And honestly, I may have encouraged him some, but I can honestly say that he's probably encouraged me more or at least opened my eyes and just made the problem closer to home and more real. What's the future for John? I mean, do you know enough about him? Can you project and predict the future? What's it going to be like? 58 now, next year 59 and so forth. In fact, it's been hitting him, especially now that he's been in Hawaii for the better part of the last 40 years and he's been thinking how he's getting older and that it's getting more real, the end, I guess, unfortunately. And he's been talking about going back to the mainland and that's something that, you know, would be great. The only problem is, I mean, it would be, you know, it's one thing to buy $150, $200 one-way plane ticket back to the mainland. It'd be completely irresponsible to just do that and leave him right back in a whole new foreign place where he has to go make it again. And I mean, it's very dangerous. There's all sorts of other challenges who have to figure out where to sleep. I mean, that would be completely almost ridiculous. Simple thing like, you're going to have to figure out where to sleep, where it's safe, where he won't freeze in the middle of the night. Exactly. So as much as he wants to go back to the mainland and try to, you know, make something of himself again, I mean, it's hard. It's hard to pick yourself up when you've been down for so long. That's a lovely thing you're doing. That's Isaac Kim. It's a lovely thing he's doing and it's part of his worldview, I think. I don't know him that well, but I sure like what I see. And when we come back from this break, I want to tell you about a movie that I saw last night. I promise that I would. Sure. It's called, it's by Ai Weiwei, Chinese activist and movie director. And it's called something about, it's called something about flow, human flow. That's the name of the movie, Human Flow. It's an Amazon movie. When we come back, I'll talk about that and see if we can't find a larger truth in all this, a larger sea change of humanity, which you're touching one person at a time. We'll be right back. Hello, everyone. I'm DeSoto Brown, the co-host of Human Humane Architecture, which is seen on Think Tech, Hawaii every other Tuesday at 4 p.m. And with the show's host, Martin Desbang, we discuss architecture here in Hawaiian Islands and how it not only affects the way we live, but other aspects of our life, not only here in Hawaii, but internationally as well. So join us for Human Humane Architecture every other Tuesday at 4 p.m. on Think Tech, Hawaii. Aloha. I'm Marcia Joyner. And I'm Beatrice Gantejo. And we have come in this series, young and old alike, to take a look at our past, your past, and the past that's not seen history books. History books are his story. And what we refer to as mirrors of the past, but we as colonized people, indigenous peoples and people of Kola, look into the mirror and to not see ourselves that. On the Ties that Bind, we will examine those underlying causes. Please join us with the Ties that Bind on Wednesdays at noon, twice a month. We look for you there. Aloha. Aloha. It's a huge part of it. I've been learning a lot. The thing is that when you're homeless, you're up against it, you know, it's threatening you. And being threatened like that gives you a sort of a heightened sense of awareness, I think, or it could, a heightened sense of awareness in the world. So when you talk to him, it's quite remarkable because you're talking to somebody who's willing to share that heightened sense of awareness and there's a benefit there to talk to him both ways. Absolutely, it's huge value. Yeah, it's great. So anyway, so I wanted to tell you about Ai Weiwei. Okay. And it's a human flow. Uh-huh. And what it's about, it's a remarkable move. It's a beautiful art film, among other things, the production values are extraordinary. And Ai Weiwei is in the movie from time to time. You see him, you see him engaging with people. And he goes from displaced person camp to displaced person camp, refugees all over, wherever you can find him. He goes into the Middle East. He goes into the southern and northern parts of Europe. Goes into Africa. And he goes into, I think, into the Mexico and South America. I don't remember exactly where, but point is that he covers everything. He goes into the Rohingya issue in Myanmar. Yep. So what he's trying to tell you with a lot of wisdom is that we have a problem. Earth, we have a problem. We have something over 60 million people who are in these camps living and he has photographs, including drone photographs of huge camps of one kind of tent or another, where all these people live in this kind of imprisonment situation for not years, but decades, and even more, more decades. And there's no hope for them. There's nobody gonna take care of them. There's nobody gonna, they will allow humanitarian groups to come in, NGOs come in and pass out food. But they're not gonna let them out. Okay, they're not gonna make a home for them. And it's very tough what's happening. And it's more and more all the time. So we have a problem, Earth. Mm-hmm, thank you, George. A problem of humanity, human flow. And I think it sort of puts it together. If you watch this movie, you'll see, it's not just one place. It's not just one country or migration pattern. It's everybody. And somehow we have created two worlds here. We have the world of people who live within civilization, you and me, and the people who live outside of civilization. And the reason I put it that way is because John is living outside of civilization. He happens to be here, and you talk to him and all that, but he's not in our civilized communities. He's outside. And so we have this, I'm gonna call it separation. This dichotomy, this polarization of human people all around the world as never before, even after World War II, when there was so many displaced people, it's bigger now than it was. So what do we do, and what have you learned? I mean, I know this is a hard question. What have you learned from John that maybe we could apply to these many tens of millions? I mean, that's a loaded question, and by no means do I have any real answers to that. But again, just from my experience and even dealing with John or certain other individuals, I think it's important to remember, and I think the simplest way to break it down would be to remember that they are just like you and me, and they're totally fine. They may have had bad luck here, bad luck there, something happened to them. You never know their story, and it's important to ask. It's not just that they were crazy. I mean, a lot of them aren't, period, even now, but it's about understanding and realizing that everyone has a story and not just discounting them right off the bat. And kind of like what you're saying in terms of these huge camps, I mean, that's heartbreaking. I mean, that's self-perpetuating. I mean, how many genius children are probably in there who could add so much value to the rest of the world yet they're not given the opportunity as so many of us squander away even. Yeah, we don't even appreciate how critical it is. And Ai Weiwei runs around and shows you that these kids never go to school. They just don't go to school. Oh, another example is Gaza. You know, Gaza has been, I don't know how many decades, Gaza has been locked up that way, and nothing's happening in Gaza. They're not supposed to have weapons. That's why the Barricade, the Blockade, but in fact, they have a lot of weapons, and the government is useless. Their government is useless. Hamas, whatever it is, useless to help them. They don't have any agriculture, they don't have any medicine. I mean, they live into mouths in this community, this overcrowded community, and what can we offer them? What can we do for them? It's more, they get handouts. They get a lot of food comes in. 80% of the food in Gaza comes from the outside. That's how they live. There's no economy to speak of. I mean, this is a complete breakdown, a complete failure. And I think the homeless is kind of related to that, don't you think? And so, you know, is it that we have to have a lot of Isaac Kims around to go out and talk to them? Is it that, you know, you take some of your wealth, whatever, and you give it to them as you do? Is it that you invite them in your home? If everybody in Hawaii did that, if everybody in Hawaii did that, we wouldn't have any homeless, would we? Exactly, and I think the answer is yes to kind of all of that, but at the same time, that wouldn't be much easier if we just remember them. Literally, I mean, it's so easy to put it out of sight, out of mind. It's so easy to be busy and caught up with your day. It's so easy to stress out about something that really isn't that stressful, relatively. And just remembering that there are other people out there that are much more in need, whose struggles are much more dire and urgent than yours. And yeah, just have a conversation. It might totally open up your mind. I mean, there's so many people who say they care and they do, I don't doubt that they do, but once you really actually put yourself in a situation where you can't have a conversation or where you can just love on them a little bit and just see- You're a fellow human being. Exactly, I mean, they're totally, they're your brother, they're your sister. I mean, it could happen to anybody, really. So I think the first step is just being, not only aware, but being present and being willing to just understand that they're totally like you and me. Well, government doesn't do very well at this. And I think if we find this to be a global failure, it's because government just doesn't know how to handle this. It hasn't been faced with this challenge, not to this degree before, and it doesn't have the tools or for that matter, the conscience, the morality, do something about it. Only exception to that, at least in this movie, was Germany. Very interesting, in the airport in Berlin, they've dedicated a number of hangers, large buildings, and they have very nice little areas for the homeless and they helped them out. It is really a statement of tolerance and love and affection as no other place in Europe that I know about that was in the movie. But here's the thing, human conduct is best affected by incentives from government, incentives and disincentives. So we know you and me sitting here together, we know it's unlikely that government really, in most places, is gonna be able to reach out and do, for example, what Germany is doing to try to actually affirmatively take care of them, which doesn't always work in Germany's favor, by the way, and creates political problems. But maybe government can do something less than that. Maybe government can do something to facilitate people like you, to facilitate people who are well-thinking, people who might help if they were just given a little nudge, some kind of nod where you say, hey, Isaac, why don't you do this? And we're gonna somehow incentivize you to do it. Do you have any ideas about that? I'm not sure exactly on how to incentivize, but all I know is that, I don't know, I don't care what excuse anyone gives. I mean, there's enough money to go around. There's enough super rich, even if just the super rich people just donated, whatever percentage. I mean, this could be pretty much solved, at least temporarily. I mean, I think long-term, this is an issue that's been going on forever, and it's a tough one to really break down. There's so many different assets or different factors involved. But back to that point, I think that people need to be incentivized, I think, but it shouldn't be that hard. It really shouldn't. I know that, in talking to John, that he said up until 10 years ago, there was a certain, and I haven't done the research, I don't know his name, I need to ask him, but there was a governor who came into power here, who was elected here in Hawaii. And up until 10 years ago, he said almost every church in the whole area in all of Hollywood would have a certain day or a certain time where they welcomed homeless people. And it was just a safe spot. No one created trouble. It was just a safe spot for them to hang out for a couple hours without worrying, to have one meal, to talk to each other, to just be normal. And he said up until 10 years ago, that was almost every church, and then once this certain governor, I don't know who it is, he apparently told churches or disincentivized them or gave them an incentive not to help discourage them. Or he went out of office, or he went out of office. Or something, yeah, so. And he said 10 years ago, that all stopped, and now he can't find a place to do that. And this is a man who wants to go to church. He wants, if a church won't do it, who will? I mean, maybe the government, but we've seen that. And again, so I think there needs to be the proper incentives. And I'm sure the governor was thinking, hey, this might help or encourage homeless people to get up off their feet, do something else. But I don't think that's the answer. I think you really have to care and really look at the person as a person and see their needs individually and just try to do what you can. Do you have any idea what happens? Do you have any thought about what happens if we as a society do nothing? If there is nobody, but Isaac Kim out there taking these steps to deal directly with people like John, what happens to us? I mean, I think that can only hurt society as a whole. By no means do I think I'm doing anything that great. Honestly, it's just one person. But if everyone cared, I mean, the world would be such a better place. I mean, these people can bring value. They can add value. Shoot, I know that John could definitely have a job at a parking lot, doing the little math, 10 minus four. He can definitely do that. Just whatever it might be, if we just include them and realize that, hey, there's something for everyone. Find a place for him. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So last question, Isaac. Yeah. So here you are, you're in a moment in your life where you're elemosinary and you're kind. And you'll probably be the way the rest of your life. But are you gonna continue to do this with John or other Johns going forward here or on the mainland? Is this something that you've built into your system where it's part of what you do? I would hope so. I mean, even just starting out with my company, I plan to help the homeless. In fact, we specifically designed this one product so that we can give out that it'd be the most useful. But I think even before all that, I mean, sitting here now talking to you and having gone through this experience, I think it's even closer to home. And a business can't just be for profit. It just, it can't, I don't think any great company, I mean, there are plenty. But to be really a great company, I mean, you have to have a deeper purpose. And I think that was my purpose. I think it's been solidified and even more highlighted and even more important now that, you know, I'm closer to the cause. I've met a few of his friends. And I mean, this is important. This is not something we can just ignore. And again, to your point, I don't think that ignoring it, I mean, the problem's not gonna go away. It's only gonna get worse and worse and worse. Especially when you have these families and all these huge camps who aren't going to school, who don't know what a normal civil, how can we expect them to learn or to know that later? It's gotta be kind of nipped at the butt as much as it can be. But I know that's a loaded, loaded topic and a tough one to solve. But I think we need to really think about it. We can't just do nothing. Yeah. So before we close, why don't you show the product that you like to give to John or other homeless people? In fact, we have, he's gotten two bottles. He hasn't showered enough with it yet. And that's what I keep bugging him and the other store owners. But here it is, it's a Castile soap. So it's 100% natural, biodegradable, responsibly sourced ingredients and sustainably sourced. So it's all good stuff, but more importantly, they can use it to wash their hair, their face, their body, they can wash their pet. They can do their laundry even with it. I mean, it's just an overall good soap to use. So I'll integrate it. Your granddad, John. Kind of unplanned, unplanned. Everything comes together. Yeah, it's beautiful that it has the way it does. But I hope that it continues to perpetuate and grow even bigger. And that's truly the hope, because it's hit home a lot harder. I mean, I would love to hopefully maybe some other time bring John on or something, because he's a lovely person to talk to. And he's got a good head on his shoulder. And it would just, it means so much for other people to learn about his story or to anybody, anybody else. I hope you can do that. Yeah, that would be great. Isaac Kim. Hey, thank you so much. Great to have you. Yeah, so good. Always good to see you. Thank you. Yep.