 It is now officially eight o'clock and it looks like we have anybody here, so let's take this off and call the meeting to order of the Tuesday, May 18th meeting of the Lungman Housing Advisory Board. Olivia, would you do a roll call for us? Yes, this morning we have Cameron Grant, Tom DeBee, Lauren Sully, Jean Christopher, Arlene Zortman, we also have Harold Dominguez, Lisa Gallinar, Karen Rooney, and Kathy Fedler. Excellent, first item on the agenda is the approval for the minutes of the April 20th meeting, which I've reviewed, but since it was not at the meeting, I just want to see if anyone else has any comments, questions, or modifications to the April 20th minutes. Jean. Yeah, I moved to approve them. Okay, second. All in favor? Most in a second. All in favor? Hands up, say aye. It is approved. The next item on our agenda is public invited to be heard. Olivia, do we have anyone from the public who'd like to speak today? We do not. All right, so we will move on to new and old business item 4A, which is a discussion on a retreat agenda regarding the Longmont Housing Authority. And there is some information in your packet about this in quite a bit in the minute that was helpful since I missed the meeting. It's a good way to catch up. I'm assuming someone is going to leave this discussion that's not me. Kathy, do you want to outline the retreat in general, and then I can go into some of the data? Yeah. Yeah. So if you can see the council draft retreat agenda, the part that, so from 9 to 1030, they wanted to have an equity discussion. That's really for the city council to be, that's more for them. There's still some debate on that particular piece, because I think someone has spent more time on this than others. And so we're not sure what's going to happen, but you all don't necessarily need to be there for that piece. And then once 1030 hits, the rest is the housing piece, the housing conversation. The council was very explicit in letting you all there to be part of that conversation. And you can see that part of it for us is going to be a grounding on what we do with all the city council members. Some have a more detailed understanding than others. And then we move into really some of the points and setting some goals for ourselves and really tangible goals that we can measure our performance against on an annual basis. And you can see when we're talking about vouchers, development goals, partnership goals, different opportunities that are on the horizon and what that means. And then getting into some of our operational goals. Then we continue from 1230 to 2. And then at around 2 o'clock you all should be finished. And they wanted to spend some time talking about the sugar mill. You may want to stay for that conversation, because I think there may potentially be an integration with affordable housing in that conversation, but I'll leave that up to you all and the city council on this. So this is really devoted to what we've been doing over the last year. And I'll let Kathy go over some of the data and then we'll work you through some of the questions. Hey, Harold, do you want to let them know what the new date is? Oh, it's July 9th. I thought that was all never really good. It's July 9th. We had some trouble getting all the council together. Okay, I'm assuming this is not going to be on Zoom. This is going to be in person? No, it'll be in person. Depending on the masking rules, although we got some clarity, well, we got new rules that give us a sense of what it's going to be like. We don't have clarity necessarily on what it really is going to look like, but by then we should all be be unmasked and so on and so forth. So they were looking at a location outside until we were evaluating that if masks were required inside, but it looks like we'll be clear wherever we go. So I think now we may shift to look at a museum or some other locations, but we'll let you know. And there's a chance that our next meeting, well, I'm pretty sure based on what I've heard, I just need to see the details. Our next meeting is highly likely, but we don't have to do it via Zoom for this group. But we'll let you know. Any questions about what Harold reviewed thus far before we go into the data with Kathy? Kathy, why don't you take it away? All right. So I did provide you a lot of data, kind of a data dump. And my understanding is that probably in order to prepare for what the LHA advisory board would like to share around development goals and goals of the Housing Authority from your perspective, that next month's meeting will probably be spending more time on this to refine some of that. But what I had handed out to you or gave to you was the most recent housing market analysis and needs assessment from the Consolidated Plan. This was prepared in late 2019 into 2020. So a lot of the data is still 2018 data because that was the best data that was available at the time through ACS, etc. So by the time you prepare for this, it's a lot of times the information is somewhat stale, but not too terribly, too terribly bad. The first section of the housing needs assessment is a comparison of the consortium as a total, comparing all the communities in the consortium. And then there's individual sections towards the back with long months starting on page 48. But just some of the little highlights that are in the first part of it, on figure one, which is on page three, the cost burden and severe cost burden by tenure. Longmont is showing the highest percent of cost burden, but only the second highest in actual numbers because of the population is smaller in Longmont than in the other communities. Same thing for owners. We have a fairly, well, we're all pretty close in cost burden for homeowners across the region. But again, ours is a fairly small number of those. Page five is a good comparison of the HUD income categories from 2015 to 2020. So that's an interesting thing to look at. I will add that the HUD income categories are kept lower in high cost areas like this because it doesn't allow for the, I think it's the 50% area median income figure to be higher than the national 80%. Income figure. So we are capped somewhat in our 30% and 50%. So you'll see less of a change or an increase over those five years in the extremely low and the low income categories versus the just the low income category. I think I'll ask you a quick question about this. I'm just trying to turn them to keep up. So the HUD income categories, are those the same as or how do they relate to what we talk about with inclusionary housing such with area median income? Yeah, we use the same across all of our programs so that we're not having multiple income calculation figures and qualification figures. So people aren't confused. We've talked several times at council, at least a couple times in the 26 years that I've been here about maybe switching to a Longmont median income calculation figure. And it just, it's a lot of work to figure it out. It is, then you have to explain and then you have to explain to HUD why you're not following their income figures and it's kind of a mess. So we've always chosen to stick with the HUD Bolter County median income figures. So it is the same 30%, 50%, 80% used across all of our programs, inclusionary housing, everything for simplicity. You'll notice on figure three that incomes of renters have increased more than incomes of owners, which the consultants were saying is likely due to one of two, or due to two factors, increases in renters income and an influx of renters with higher income into the consortium market. And that seems to be consistent across the consortium. So that seems to make some sense as to why that has increased so much more. Well, and into that point to give you a real tangible example, I was talking to the owner of 150 Main just down the road here. I think they're over 90%, they're over 90, let's say, 2% occupied. And if you look at that during the time that they opened it up and during COVID, we're still in it and how people were coming into it. I think we're seeing something very similar at the new rental units on County Line and 17. So a lot of these, and I don't want to kind of to go, I wanted to talk about this specifically. If you remember, well, you may not remember, we presented to Council earlier and we talked about what we have in terms of rental housing within our community. What was it about five years ago, four years ago? And they talk about we didn't have a sufficient stock in these upper end apartments. And what we're seeing is a lot of those have come online and they've been filled very quickly, which is also pulling some of the pressure off of those lower price apartments, but they're filling just as quickly too. I think it's another reason why our latest project we're looking at doing income averaging, which will include a higher level of income, which allows us to do lower income at less of a subsidy because some of the higher incomes are helping to subsidize that. So it takes less investment initially. And it's a good idea just to have a range of incomes in an apartment complex, it seems like. There's data on page six that's comparing the different races and the incomes, median incomes that across different ethnicities. And then some information on the households and how they stack up against the community stack up against each other in the different income categories on page seven, which is kind of interesting. On the rental market, you'll notice that the Longmont had in the median rent income from 2013 to 2018 that our line looks a lot higher in comparison to the others. We're still the lowest cost community in the consortium area and had a 27% five-year change with a 5% annual change. Everybody's hanging in about the same place with their vacancy rates. Vacancy rates have been pretty phenomenal or fulfillment rates. However, you want to flip it have been pretty phenomenal for over the since the recession, basically. The other thing I wanted to point out was on page 13, there's a chart showing average rent and income required to afford the average rent by the different rental markets. And at the time, 14-18 was our average rent and an income required to afford that's about 56,000, not quite 57,000. If you go back to the chart in the that was on page five that showed the differences in the extremely low, very low and low income categories to afford that rent at 56,7, one person, a single family household would have to be at the 80% area median income, actually a little bit above it to afford that rent. And a four-person family would be at about 50% of area median income. So it's kind of interesting to see how folks fall when looking at the median rents. The other thing I want to point out on page 15 is that Longmont had the highest percent of five-year change in ownership home values with 64% five-year change or 10% annual change. Averaging the 10% annual change is about equal with everyone else, but we had a little bit higher overall five-year change, but still in the more affordable for the consortium. I also want to point out that this is looking at that doesn't say if it's an average or not. I was going to say we are consistently in the $500,000 average now for the past several months in Longmont, and median is consistently in the upper fours for single family home ownership. Yeah, Kathy, if I can jump in on this one. This was 2013 to 2018 and what we're seeing now, well, that's what we're seeing now is to the point we're in the fives and when the median is in the upper fours and getting that close to the average, what you're seeing is that market just drastically shift. What's also now starting to happen too is when you look at what we have in the price points for new home construction and then the fact of what we're seeing just in the market in the commodity side, that's continuing to push, which I think is also creating the need for housing stock and driving that price up. So you have different factors in play that's really starting to impact this conversation. Cameron was on the LEDP meeting and we had a really good presentation about what's happening today and it is not, I guess, Cameron would it be fair to say that it is more common than not that people are getting over asking price and significantly over asking price and people are doing some very creative things in terms of home ownership. I think I heard the story of round trip tickets anywhere in the world. They're coming in and getting inspections now is like completely, I think, uncommon and we truly are in a seller's market, so these price points are just flying in that other direction. Yeah, I think that's spot on, Harold. And as I was looking through this earlier, I was thinking it might be helpful for this group to see a copy of that presentation, because even though my day job is in this world to a degree, it was startling to see it put down on paper and in numbers and you hear some anecdotal stories that are a little bit shocking about how deals are happening right now and the challenge of people who want to or need to find a home right now and just how difficult it is, even for people with significant resources can't find a home, I can't imagine how much more challenging it is if your resources are limited. So I can check with Melanie Bimson who did that presentation and see if she can share that with this group. Got it here. I'll share it. I'll send it to Olivia and she can share that with the board. Sorry, Karen. Any other highlights in this? We got to talk about, Karen. So I was just going to point out on page 17, there's some interesting information about options for buying an affordable home across the region and the number of units that are available, which are very, very few as we were just talking about, so in the different price ranges. So and then, like I said, long-launt data, specific data starts on page 48, I think it is. So that's something to take a look and focus on more closely. So then I did include a chart on all of the affordable deed restricted rental properties in Longmont. It's a fairly big list. There's about 2,100 or so different affordable rentals just to highlight some of the items on the chart that show that are colored in an orange figure are those that either have gone out of their period of affordability or could go out of their period of affordability in the next several years. So we are likely to have to replace some of those units if they would convert. We have found kind of counterintuitively, I guess, that some of the developments that could go out of affordability have not been doing that. Specifically, if they were more HUD funded or had larger subsidies originally, that they have not, they've either been renewing on an annual basis for the Section 8 program or they have re-syndicated kind of like we did with Aspen Meadows Apartments. So that's been kind of interesting to watch. The ones that have gone out, and I don't think I included our loss of units. Yeah, the developments that have gone out of affordability have really been ones that we have locally had funding in or subsidized. So ones that just received fee waivers, they were under the Inclusionary Housing Program, the first one, and received fee waivers. So that was really our only deed restriction hold on them. And all of those have moved out. So Hover Manor, as you remember, they converted, that was one that was Section 8, and they converted and went out of it. So that's kind of the anomaly on that one. But the shores, the legacy apartments, those two were under the Inclusionary Housing Program at the beginning. They had fee waivers when the fee waiver time period ran out. They opted out. And then the LHA had some scattered site homes that were public housing units that they sold when HUD released those and were allowed to get out. And they used that those funds to reinvest in other properties that are affordable. Same thing with the Terry Street Apartments. That became, because of the location, more the value had increased so much that converting those, selling those, converting them to market or whatever the buyer wanted to do with those and reinvesting those funds helped them to weigh more units at an affordable rate. So we've been tracking that as well. There's a page that shows some of the limited special purpose housing developments like the in-between where you have to be referred in. They're not just open to the market. That's why those are pulled out separately. And some of the shelter beds on those. There's a chart that shows the deed restricted rental units by the different AMIs that they're serving. One that shows the difference of senior and versus family and individuals. And then one that shows by ownership, LHA, BCHA, this all, and then the private corporation. So and then there's a chart that's very colorful. We call it the rainbow chart or the spectrum. That kind of puts into perspective all of the different housing developers and affordable housing owners in Longmont and how they kind of all fit together in a continuum from emergency housing, housing first, sheltering the homeless through rental housing into home ownership housing. So it kind of shows the whole gamut of how everybody kind of works together and how you can kind of step up from being homeless all the way up into home ownership if your income continues to increase and how the different developers are serving different areas of the Longmont community. I think the other thing it really shows is that there is a place for everyone and everyone's kind of operating in their niche. There's not a lot of duplication of services or budding heads kind of thing. Trying to go after the same property or the same income category necessarily that everyone's kind of swimming in their lane and serving their segment of the population. And most areas of the population between zero and 80% are being served in one fashion or another in Longmont and throughout Boulder County really. I don't know if anyone has any questions about that in particular, but I've always found that really interesting kind of a chart. Go ahead. Was there something? I had a quick question. I thought that that chart was very, very helpful. I had never seen anything presented like that showing like the spectrum because it always seemed to me like you either you were affordable housing or you weren't. It was like there was no step up. So that's really great. One question I did have is are there any privately held developments or anything that we have or the city or LHA has an option to purchase and put into our housing stock like a right of first refusal or something? Well the only thing that the LHA has that I'm aware of is the Christman development. So Christman one which is existing and right behind Sonic the LHA will take over and actually own and manage in 2028. Right, Harold? I think it was March of 2028 under our new agreement. I lost my mouse. Yeah. So we are in the process of renegotiating that agreement based on Christman two and the development of that project. And so in the 2027 first quarter of 2028 I think is when we have the ability to own that facility. We do have the ability in this negotiation to begin managing the facility earlier once they reach stabilization under their qualifications. That'll be based on our ability to manage it and just the world at that time. But I think it's in the 2027 beginning 2028. But that's the only one that I'm aware of that we have that option. I think that's something that we probably should take a look at the housing authority if they're going to partner in developments that that is something that at a minimum we should have the first right of refusal if it ever sells and we were talking to element about that as well because we were less of a partner in that one than what we're talking about with Christman. But that that probably should be a negotiating point for us to do, you know, take a property off the tax rolls or do any kind of any kind of subsidies at all for that going forward. I was going to say I agree that should almost be like a mandatory. If you want our help, you know, give us this option. We might not exercise it. It'll depend on the market and everything at the time. But I think BCH is started doing that several years ago, which is where I learned about that. So it's good to know we at least have one option and that I like that we're looking at doing that in the future. Yeah, we we really took I guess we took that approach on this one based on what we're going to do once we get clarity as to whether or not it's it's going in the 4% non competitive frown on the tax credits. And once we get clarity on what that means, we will we will come back to you all to vote on a recommendation that we have to take to council in terms of support. But it really is how we were coming in supporting both financial financially via our private activity bonds and these other components to then say if we're putting this in, here's what we're getting out. We've also in it adjusted the the revenue coming out of Christmas one and that deal that comes back to the housing authority. So we shifted from a 50 50 allocation to 75 25 Kathy. And so that is actually going to generate an additional $200,000 over the next six years to the to the housing authority. So for example, we will also pull in a total amount is 600,000 and change of cash coming into the housing authority right to own right to manage to do exactly what you just said, Lauren. And I think that needs to just be a foundation when we come in with any kind of financial assistance that we take into place. And so then theoretically at the end of by 2028, we will own and operate a prop a property. If you net what we're getting out of it with what we're putting into it for probably less than a million dollars. And I'm doing a lot of rounding with the numbers right now with the details to you. But that's a pretty good deal. I mean, to say in seven years, you're going to own a property that will have over 100, what 80 83 for Christmas to 114 for Christmas one. So for over 200 unit complex, we will own for less than a million dollars for when you net everything out. That's pretty good deal, I think. Probably one of the better ones we've ever entered into. So the other data sets that I included were just a summary of the section eight voucher data or the housing choice vouchers over the years. We're missing a couple of years of data 2018 19 and 20 will continue to search for that if we can get it and plug it in here. But the graph that shows the comparison of the budget authority to the number of vouchers is pretty telling over this last several years. Some of it is a adjustment. If you don't have everything leased up that your budget gets reduced a bit. So some of it is our own fault. And but some of it is definitely a result of the increased in costs and how much more subsidy you're providing per family because per household because of the the higher half cost that that you're paying the portion that's paid by the voucher. And there's a chart that shows the different communities that are agencies that have vouchers in Longmont. We're still trying to get mental health partners information as well. I think they're about the only other one that has significant vouchers that are probably placed in Longmont. I'll check with DOH as well and see if there's any other agencies that they fund. But as you can see there is a total of about 880 vouchers that are in Longmont only about 50 percent of which are ours. The other half or really more than half are Boulder Housing Partner vouchers that people have moved here and Boulder County Housing Authority the same thing. So that was kind of interesting. This has shifted a little bit from the last time we found this information which was way back in early 2000s. But not a whole lot. The interesting thing I thought was that Boulder Housing Partners has way more vouchers in the consortium area than Boulder County Housing Authority does which I was kind of surprised. So good for them. What the heck is this? Oh that's good getting into the age receivables and everything. So that's the information that I have. I think with the information that Harold's going to have Olivia send out. I also have a chart that has tracked median sales prices and average sales prices from 2000 to current along with some other data around days on market and I forget what the other one is. There's four different factors that that it charts over a long period of time. So some of that information I may pull together as well for this discussion for council around home ownership. But really for the housing authority has been more focused on rental housing which might be one of the first points of discussion. The housing authority has never gotten into home ownership. It's always been looking at rental and what you think about that and I don't know how we want to start having the discussion on goals etc. For this meeting if it's too much information you need time to think about it and really hit it in at the June meeting or however you want to go about the rest of the discussion around this topic. I have two questions. That presentation that you guys talked about Cameron. Did anyone bring up because I don't know what data you guys were using and discussing in that meeting but I've been hearing a lot about how building materials are skyrocketing. In fact we need some work done to our house and the guy actually just told us it's going to cost you four times as much because buying just one piece of wood which used to be four dollars is now eighty dollars. Was that part of the discussion with all the new builds that are happening because I imagine that's going to trickle down and affect housing prices from developers. Yeah that was definitely part of Harold's right there. Yeah that's crazy. So you add that to the the market forces and the supply challenges in general and it's it's kind of a perfect storm not in favor of affordable housing right now. Yeah because this isn't going to affect us even if we start building that's unfortunate. I had to change it to unmute. So this is the lumber market and what we're seeing. I will tell you we have a couple of construction projects that we're looking at that also looks at the steel market. You know steel, copper, everything that goes into the construction of any kind of project to give you a sense of what we did what is creating some of the the need for assistance on Christmas. I think we put they put in that an escalation of what close to three quarters of a million dollars for contract pricing. I'm looking at building well we're looking at building two fire stations I had a meeting late last week they said two million dollars over budget to put it into perspective early to mid last year we were about 200,000 over budget when the escalation started. So these commodity markets are shifting everything dramatically and then as I've been doing the research on it depending on what you look at at least a year from now in terms of when they think this will start stabilizing and there's some industry experts that have written some articles that said it probably won't be until the end of 2022 where that really stabilizes to what it was before. If you look at this chart doesn't go back into it they're going to send me some updated charts and then we'll present this once I get those because I didn't have electronic copies. What we're seeing today actually is mimicking what we saw in 2008 during the recession. So in 2008 there was a huge spike in commodity markets and then it went down. The difference in this is a couple of things. One you saw sort of that preparation for a recession based on the pandemic. The challenge in this is we also have issues where being able to produce the products because of having people in proximity to each other so everything from literally cutting the trees to processing the trees to building the metal is now also impacted by some of the rules that exist in some of the other countries and other states. They're hoping there may be some more domestic production coming in to help offset that a little bit. On the other side of it then you have the shipping issues and so one of the examples that's coming out is a lot of times in the ports are the contractors that we're looking at to build the fire station said timbers and metal products aren't available and in some cases we know they're on the ship but we're not sure when they're going to get offloaded on the ship. So you have production, transportation, everything coming in to bear that is causing this issue. What's also concerning me on this is we have a lot of federal dollars about to come down. So you take the lack of product and then you take a lot of federal funds coming in for projects and I think we just need to watch and see because who knows really how long this is going to exist. And I forgot my second question so. Sorry. No, no, I forgot it before you started. Okay. New mom brain. Holly. Can we get to claim a senior moment there? So I do think Kathy you bring up a very good point because ultimately the only way that we can that most people can actually get out of having to be renters which will keep you poor forever is home ownership and I do think that we need to get into home ownership working with say Habitat or other groups like that and developers who do this specifically. Home ownership has been fundamental to everything since the founding of this country so I do think we need to be talking about that. I remembered. Thank you, Polly, because you jogged my memory. I was going to mention that you know BCHA is in the entitlements phase of a new development out in Lafayette and they are looking at getting into the home ownership realm as well and I was talking to one of the staff members the other day and I asked how you know what are they looking at doing and they said they haven't gotten too deep into it but definitely looking at like a fiscal type deed restriction with a land lease and then also spelling to developers who would then deed restrict kind of like the city of Boulder has and then they would just manage the program so I mean I'm definitely interested in hearing more about that and I think that is the direction we should go but I also recognize it's totally new for LHA and I don't know if it would be done by the city or done by LHA what makes the most sense but yeah I definitely think we should increase like Polly said increase the stock of affordable housing for home ownership because yeah renting is just giving your money away to make someone else rich usually. Go ahead Polly. Another model is what the city of London does and also to an extent the city of Boulder has done numerous other cities whereby the city builds the land and then people in their rent are buying it back from them that used to be called rent to own but it didn't work well but that's a way that people can get into it even though they don't technically have the down payment or all that stuff. We don't want to get into a situation which is what caused the giant meltdown in 2008 in which all kinds of people are being urged to buy a house that they can't then afford to actually buy because their income isn't sufficient to maintain it but when you do a rent to own thing you're buying it back over time with your rent unlike regular rent where you're just buying the house for the other guy so okay thank you. Yeah I am totally in agreement with moving into the home ownership market especially in helping people who are in affordable housing now move forward for several years and I think Kathy you're familiar with this and Polly in the neighborhood there was the RISE program specifically designed to teach families how to manage their money and it was a whole umbrella of information to help them get their lives together and move forward. There were initially nine families involved in that two of them bought their own homes and moved out and I would like to see not only our effort financially and building but also that supportive system that helps people understand what it takes to do this because a lot of them never got exposed to so this would be our opportunity to do that to add the soft service along with the hardware. So just throwing this out as a devil's advocate kind of thing might it make more sense for the LHA to focus on on that aspect of it and getting some of our higher income renters ready to move into home ownership because I know that I remember Michael saying at one point that people really had to be shown that they could make that next step because they you know they had had risen up through the ranks so they had almost no pap whatsoever and it was almost all tenant paid and to be shown that they could afford a mortgage with habitat or whatever and that it was a good conduit if we had that pipeline going that folks could go into a habitat home and then maybe eventually into a market home or there may be it's fairly unlikely but maybe we could start to get some a pipeline ready for inclusionary housing homes the blue vista homes that are you know affordable at really 70% of area median income is what they're targeting right now so doing some partnerships perhaps as opposed to us just think about it maybe getting into a whole new market that we don't understand and I have to learn and and all that stuff so. And to your point Kathy if the cost of building right now is is obviously extremely out of proportion because of what we live through that maybe right now we develop a program like that and that is supportive until we reach the point where it is worthwhile and and profitable for us as government you know what I'm saying um that it makes sense for us to build to put that money in why pay 400,000 now when in two or three years it'll be back down to a hundred thousand uh do you understand what I'm saying so I think that if we started that program um uh because we've we're talking about developing more family um projects a lot of LHAs are senior but the family projects which the neighborhood as for Meadows neighborhood is um took advantage of that and I I am I like your idea of for right now let's focus on teaching people how to do this as opposed to investing money which we know is three or four times what it could be I agree I think one of the things I like that idea if I can jump in I think one of the things we also have to manage is we have money coming in and there are time limits with that money so you can't just necessarily set on it either and and so it's it's going to be um how you well sorry what you look at how you look at it what are the time frames on the money coming in from the federal government what can what you can do for the money in terms of developing those houses because unfortunately that's kind of what we're seeing is you have a lot of different pressures so it's not like you can necessarily wait and and to be frank there there is a significant concern that by the time you wait I'm sorry I'm having allergy issues by the time you wait you may have other inflationary pressures that actually minimize whatever it is that you're gaining in this and and then if you have a lot of folks waiting they may actually prolong the price increases in this simply because the demand never goes away and the supply doesn't come in what I wanted to share with you all something that we met with some folks yesterday and I'll show you this because this is I think where the creativity is going to have to come in so this is a group that we met with out of um they're in Buda Vista and they these are manufactured homes and I'm going to slide to this screen to give you a sense of and and really this home ownership is really probably something that fits in our inclusionary housing world more than it fits in your world because we do focus on more of the rental piece so if you kind of look at this Franklin here which is a three-bed two-bed 1500 square foot home and you can see and they said their price points were up to date based on what they had a couple of days ago 391,000 you can see more of the townhome product to 94 to 40 so I'm going to take the Franklin and I'm going to show you sort of the dollhouse view of this so you go so you go how can you build this type of house for the price points that they're talking about well the way they're doing it is they manufacture this entire unit in a manufacturing facility they put it on a truck they come in and they drop it they then take this unit and they put it on a truck and they drop it and and so then um just to kind of give you a sense of what it looks like um this is all built out um and this is really a new product that if you look at it is similar to what you'll see in some of the smaller homes that we have in the blue vista area I think it has that same look um this is um all the code but you can see they they take some of these price points up into the 500s but it is a it is a different process of how you go through a home ownership but what they're doing is they're catching the economy as a scale and how they produce it so they're able to absorb some of the lumber cost and some of the commodity costs in in a different way based on their production style and so we're going to do that with um the one in netherland and they're doing it with kaufman too all right and so this is a this company um this development here so this is um to the point this is really the first development of this style in the manufacturing oh sorry I'm not sharing it with you share it again this is the first one in the state where they've really done this but you can get a sense where they're creating a community with these with these manufactured units um that's they also have a phase two where they're doing multifamily the reason this is brought to our attention is we actually have some market rate apartment builders that are looking at this and and so then you get into the economy of scale the more units you can bring together in a community the better the pricing is that conversation even evolved into if there's enough of an economy of scale they may be interested in actually building a manufacturing facility in the front range to supply that demand and and so um at some point in the near future we're going to send a team of staff to to blend of these to the visit and because it's an interesting product and it's a product that if you look at the way they're designing their communities they're not big homes they're not large homes they're dense homes um and livable walkable communities which really meets what the council said in terms of envisioned long life so this is what I think we're all going to have to start exploring in terms of that affordable home ownership so I wanted to share that with you all yeah Harold um you mentioned that you know with the the money that the city's been given to um facilitate the building there's a time frame what is that particular time frame remember what it is Kathy uh the 2024 is it something yeah something like three years three years okay yeah so so the the challenge with that just to give you a sense is any project you're on right take nine months to from conception probably nine months to 12 months in development review and then you have to have the if you put any funding into it it has to be expended and so then you take 12 let's say 24 months for construction you almost have to start on that now and and then you what we're thinking about is how you negotiate the contracts on the commodities so that if it goes down you take advantage of that yeah so the LHA and the city both are lucky in that we have land at least that are could be ready to go pretty quickly it's not like we have to go out and find some parcels we've got several different options on that if we're doing you know full build or the other option is to do some purchase and rehab kind of thing which would probably take us long our lean you had your hand up really not glad so several years ago we lived in the mountains of colorado and the town we lived in was growing quite fast and one of the things they did was do Boise cascade homes which is similar to what you were talking about here um however the people that purchased those homes had to provide the lot for them and the the hookups for sewer and water and all that kind of stuff is this price that is listed here on these homes does that include the property and the hookups or is that in addition to now can you ask me that of course sorry somebody walked in and um what was the question again the question is the price that you is listed on these homes does that include the lot and the hookups to sewer and water and everything like that or is that something they're gonna okay okay so think of it as a traditional housing development and that when you buy the house you've absorbed the cost of all the tap fees water fees and in that price um obviously their pricing is based on the tap fees that exist all of the fees in Buena Vista or Buena Vista um but it will be reflective of that and in talking to them so long right has some of the lowest fees and taps and things like that in the front range so we think it may be similar but yeah it's all inclusive okay so it could be cheaper if we do it on land that we already own and we donate the land right and part of it is interesting so they also partner and um I forgot the name of the company but there's a group out of a development arm out of Berkeley that specialize in just doing developments in the affordable housing world um they were really interested in the property that we own adjacent to the lodge in Harstone and and really almost um and this is new to Kathy because this hit me after Kathy left um working with that group out of Berkeley and then this and in their product to look at a proof of concept on the front range for this type of work um where they will come in and do all of it they just need to have us on our side support them in the light tech kind of world um and that may be where we have to bring in somebody like Sarah Bot to help them do it but they would literally be the developer and it would be very similar to the chris wind development but with a different product style um and because their model is built on affordability so if they even said to us if you had an affordable project go into their production line and afford in a market rate project go into their production line they put the affordable ahead of the market rate because of what they're trying to do to solve this broader market issue so I tell you this and you know as I've been thinking about this and in this conversation we're going to need to explore it because I think this is what we're going to have to talk about with both the council and you all of how we're going to have to start thinking about this in a very non-traditional way but gives you a very traditional housing structure that is not any different and then look at mixed income as we're doing this too because you don't want to consolidate it on one location either Paulie I just yeah if you want to follow up on Harold's point then we'll go to Paulie yeah um I I I like all the points that that you're making Harold and Kathy I don't see why we couldn't do both in terms of if we're going to go into home ownership while we are developing and I understand we need to get going quickly that's what you're saying if I'm hearing you correctly Harold in those in those months we can be working with people to teach them how it's possible and how they can do that and so we need to have both going so that when the house is ready the people are also ready I don't see any reason not to do both except of course the cost is that well that in staff capacity that's the other issue that I have to manage to in staff capacity in that conversation but we could find somebody we could contract with too so those are things we'll put on our list and we'll try to flesh it out between the July night now Paulie go ahead um um Harold I am glad you brought up the Guenavista thing because that's been going on for a while and I I really do think that that's a terrific model is uh manufactured homes and um they've done I thought that they originally had to they couldn't find any um manufactured home producer except in Nebraska but apparently they have something else anyway I would love to see that come to Longmont I know you said that we used to have one but if we did manufacturing homes here because there is I think a growing market it would give us a huge boost for and provide a lot of jobs decent jobs for kids who don't want to go to college and all the way up to management and all that um the other thing I was thinking is in terms of home ownership models and in terms of low income we already worked with rock ROC and uh we worked with rock to through thistle to uh help turn the uh trailer park um on north main into a co-op and uh cooperative housing while it also has its own problems um is one way that people can get in who don't quite have enough money to buy a home but they're buying a share in a home and that's one method of getting some kind of equity in their home and moving up into uh afford into uh an actual home of their own although a co-op is depending upon the structure a way to home ownership too and I do think we need to you know in terms of uh partnering with um uh developers who actually do this for a living we do need to be partnering with those developers you mentioned uh as well as uh places like rock who will serve as that bridge to they will essentially front some money teach people about cooperative home ownership and then people are gradually buying it back and and getting a share in that they can sell and working their way into uh having some equity in their lives and building wealth for their family and do we have any partnerships with any lenders or um institutions to help people get into a home that maybe don't meet the traditional um background like I know Chapa has some different products um that are kind of like FHA but you're not paying the ridiculous mortgage insurance um because I mean I have lots of funds here in Longmont who rent and they pay more for their rent than I pay for my mortgage and I put a thousand dollars down on this house and this house for reference was 397 thousand dollars because I got a down payment assistance as a second mortgage but um you know the one one friend I'm thinking of you know and I asked her how come you don't buy she said well we don't have the debt to income too high but you know in talking with her she didn't really have a lot of debt and they have decent income so I'm just wondering do we have any um partnerships or anything like that through the city or that you know of that would help people qualify for for mortgages that they can't afford because I absolutely agree about the inflation issue and like I remember I worked in the real estate market doing title insurance and the clothes things where I was watching people making like 40 000 dollars a year in south Florida by half a million dollar homes on a balloon mortgage and I was like there's no way these people are going to pay for this in three years um so yeah I definitely don't agree with you know people getting into a house they can't actually afford but there's got to be I mean a barrier for me is is the initial cost of buying a home like the closing costs are ridiculous um down payment's hard to come up with especially if you've been renting um so I mean I really like this idea like Jean was saying and Kathy that you pointed out like maybe there's a way we can help people step up out of affordable housing into home ownership um thinking of like the pie program I know that people can save money but it's not a lot I mean I think it's what $5 000 max at the end so I would I would love to look at some creative ways to help people move in addition to looking into buildings and I have not heard of one of us so that is really exciting so that would be I would love that here and those houses actually remind me of the ones in north folder up in the holiday area I call them the chicken coop houses because that's what they remind me of they're so cute um so yeah I I like that style Tom did you have something yes I did um so I agree in the the home ownership and you know that's kind of the next step uh in the affordable housing um but I still I think we should almost stick to our lane of of rental of the of the home home projects excuse me the apartment projects just because what I'm seeing is there's a $2100 unit shortage in our region too uh anything below $625 so I mean I think we should maybe dip our toe in for the home ownership side but I think our main focus still should be managing these affordable apartment units um and it kind of leads me to another question too of you know with these possible units that are expiring or have expired could we go after them too to see if they're interested in either having us manage it or purchase it as well and maybe then having a rehabbed as well through HUD yeah I was having a similar reaction we've seen a lot of data that identified some of the gaps and we've talked about some the techniques to solve some of the problems with the challenge for us kind of what's our role in all of this um more than just philosophizing about the challenges of affordable housing what can what can really impact so I tend to agree with Tom that that um a large portion or maybe the largest portion of our energy and funds ought to go to what we're really good at um but I don't want to leave out the other pieces I think we can dip our toe in that water you know if you take 10 or 15 percent of our focus and put it on um helping educate families and individuals to to and connect them with opportunities to transition out of the situation they're in just to whatever the next tier looks like but but stepping back you know when I when I'm trying to figure out is how between now and say our next meeting and then July do we distill this down to something that can be helpful to counsel uh and in their role as the LHA and counsel to to move this problem forward what what's our path are you gonna jump in Kathy or do you want me to for somebody else too I'm trying to so a couple of points where I think at least on our side where this conversation starts blending a little bit more for me and Kathy and Karen is as we're sitting in so there's there's this thing for us where we're sitting in both slots slots or actually all three slots so when you look at what we do from um in our community and neighborhood services and housing retention and those types of programs that really gets to the programmatic piece but that's a city piece when you look at four cell in a home ownership that's a city piece and then to Tom's point in Cameron's point when you look at the multifamily rental market that's the housing authority piece so generally for us as individuals we're in all three slots but it's which hat are we wearing and where and and so I think for us this conversation's really kind of highlighted the need to parse those out and where they fit and then for you all when you say I think for you all is to to then come in and say in the world of the housing authority here's how we really see the fit for the housing authority and what we do and and here's where we want to be and here's what we want to see as a board on that side specifically getting into development of units types of units we develop how quickly we want to develop units how we partner on those projects what we get out of the partnership on those projects I think if we kind of in this world focused on that that may help with some clarity knowing that in that conversation we may slide into these other pieces with the council because that's a hat taking off the housing authority hat putting on the city hat this I don't know if that helps at all I'm trying to find the agenda again so as I'm looking at this then getting into where do you see us being and how do we increase vouchers what are the targets you want us to see for increased vouchers and how we need to look at the concept of project based vouchers impacting on supporting projects that we develop um specifically what we're hearing too is the more local vouchers we can bring into these affordable multifamily rental projects that increases the likelihood of success and then what do you see in terms of development goals for us in terms of bringing the property you know how many properties do you want to see us develop in your purview of the rental world if you want to stay focused there and and then laying out how we partner on those so I would take that the first three bullet points and put them in the mindset of what you all think we need to do from a housing authority perspective in the rental property management world I don't know if that helps at all that at least helps my mind because I like the structure of it um you know and I would think maybe in the interest of of time one option for us would be to take this structure plus the information and discussion today and kind of offline spend our time thinking about this and and come back at our meeting next month um with any additions or revisions to this structure we would like to propose uh is that enough time for us if just one more meeting before the retreat to feel comfortable that we can add some value to council's discussion so yeah I wonder if it'd be helpful if we design some more specific questions maybe in more of a visioning format kind of thing for the next meeting to help delve down into some of the areas that we anticipate you all being able to provide feedback to council on and then devote the next meeting solely to to that um so for instance I I realize I I didn't include there there is a mission and a vision for the housing authority to send that out and see does that still meet any kind of need or not um and by having some maybe more specific question I wrote down some goals just from what you were talking about at check-in does this does this is this what you want to um take a look at as as goals um kind of thing so maybe some providing some more additional information to what we already have in an outline for discussion for the next meeting yeah I I like that and I'm glad you brought up the mission but when we were discussing if I pulled that up and was staring at it as we went through these ideas and it's helpful to have as a reference point um basically everything we talked about can fit within our vision uh the trick is that next step of okay you know we all these things are on the menu but we can only have one meal this year so what are we going to pick and choose and put on the plate and focus on um so that to me is what we need to try to zero in on in the next month and then start that discussion with council on the ninth and I think for us we need that specific we need those specifics because we see the vision and here's where we are and we're just seeing opportunities and moving them but we're not sure and we think it's an alignment with what we where we need to be and at least we're hearing on Christmas and things we're getting ahead and all that but I think we do need that we need to get into that next level in those specifics so we have some policy guidance so that as we're doing this we're not necessarily guessing but we know hey this clearly fits in with what the guidance is and we can pull the trigger and I think that's the clarity from an operational perspective that we're going to need to get out of this so um we're not making potential judgment calls that may or may not fit in with what you all want to see or what the board wants to see should we kind of put together almost like a timeline like you guys did for the merging of LHA and the city and look at okay here are the immediate needs in the rental area like Tom mentioned but increase our rental stock as quickly as we can using all of these federal dollars and opportunities like the Cruzman one and two and let's see how we can reach a goal there first with a five to ten year goal of having a you know home ownership to own projects because really if we're developing apartments there's an opportunity to develop also home ownership units within that same community and having that nice mixed community where you don't just have all renters and even having some market rate home ownership in that same area so it's very diversified might attract some different investor situations as well and have that be a future goal and then in the and then also go along with trying to come up with a program if that is part of our vision after reviewing all of this mission statement and vision statement do we want to look at not just providing homes for people but information and coming alongside people to help them step into home ownership and also is it possible if we do look at home ownership in the future to prioritize people who are in our programs already over people who are not if that's our goal is to help people get there I don't I don't know if that that wades into some equity questions we'd have to look at that but that might be something we could do where they get like an extra point you know if they're in the program and we're helping them step up or something but but making that timeline of like here's our immediate need here's what we could be working on in the midterm and then future goals maybe that might be um more of a concrete easier way to look at it because yeah I agree like yeah we can have all these ideas up here and that's great but um we need to focus on what we need now I don't know because I really liked Harold I really liked your your timeline that you made for us and I know it changes so okay it might might be something good to present to the board if they're if they're looking for that so what what anything else we need to cover on this this topic in preparation for next month and to the retreat I think we'll just bring it back and you all take this and put together your ideas once you have the grounding in it and then we'll we'll go from there sounds good well thank you for the all the data and then some interesting discussion and possibility it's it's a little overwhelming you know to me so I I'm craving that focus but hopefully we can get there the next period of time so let's roll on item five a city report and update on operations so I will um go first and then I'll have Lisa jump in on the vacancy reports um so the we haven't made much progress this month um basically because we're getting prepped for the lha audit which is in-house this week um we did get the lodges um voucher paid in may so that'll come off the ledger um the reason probably for the increase is the heartstones april um that was a huge increase going back to january to get the new contracted rent the original budget that HUD approved didn't have the replacement reserves in it so we had to have two different periods of contracted rent which caused the threshold to go over on HUD's side and it's just trying to explain that it's it's legit we just need to get it paid um HUD has required um that we begin submitting financials to them as well those were the two properties that we actually didn't have to submit um reports to um but they are going to be requiring that on a monthly basis and that starts next month um they we do also have some deadlines from our MOR audit um that we've asked asked to be extended till the end of the year because with they want a hundred percent file review um of all the heartstone and lodge units to make sure everything is compliant in the files as well as um getting our AR in balance um so we have said we will take on if I mean because with with the property management in place we just don't have the bandwidth to do that all at once so we did ask for an extension to the end of December to get that all completed and we'll report on that um on a monthly basis with the financials as well to show which files have been reviewed um and which ledgers have been cleaned up it's a little complicated to clean up the ledgers on a heartstone on 202 properties because the system is pretty automatic so if you make one change it could affect another um so we have to be really diligent and careful um as we move forward with those. Do we have any questions on the AR aging? One thing I do want to explore when kinder talks about the issues with the 202 properties we're actively discussing getting them out of the 202 program because it just creates so many issues for us in terms of what you have to do and how you have to do it and it just doesn't work like any of the other properties and we're not sure what value um am I saying that appropriately the value that we're getting out of being in the 202 program we're not sure why that happened um but it almost creates we can accomplish the same thing and do the same thing and not being the HUD program that's where we think we need to be the challenge is you can't just immediately get out of it you almost have to get in a waiting list um to to accomplish that so we're starting to explore that just because of the challenges we're having that kinder is talking about. Harold I I get understand you wanting to explore the options um but getting out of it uh the the biggest benefit of having 202 is the huge amount of rent subsidy and more the very extremely low can afford that so I well we can look at options how can we still keep that availability and um that's where that's where HUD comes in and but we got a consequence of not being there that's what I'm looking at. So transferring them from a 202 to a it's kind of a rad program it's a subsidy program you actually transfer at the same contracted rent um as you are today so it's similar to and the subsidies would be the same they would still be paying 30 percent of their income that would never change we would still have the contracted rent what you kind of get rid of is all of the HUD obligations that are required which is submitting the budget getting it approved making sure you have and so we would still have to do that I mean we'd still have to do that on the LHA side um but it's just you're not there's so many fine tooth details on a HUD 202 property that you have to follow. Yeah Kendra I appreciate you keeping that politically correct basically it's bureaucracy weighing it down the requirements are so detailed and there's so many of them it's bureaucracy that weighs it down and it costs us money because it costs us time and staff yeah so yeah so they um the other program you might even direct program that option that we would go to um would still keep that 30 percent that's awesome yeah okay I'm I'll get off myself box oh no you can that's all good it's a good question yeah yeah okay um so that's kind of where we stand we are making progress um a lot of the property managers are looking at their ledgers and they're sending me details monthly to to get corrections a lot of it's just a flip flop from HUD subsidy to rent um is what occurring so there's not really like we've under reported revenue it's just we've reported it on the wrong side kind of in a sense and I didn't know if you wanted to if we wanted to go into the budget comparison or if you want to tackle the the vacancy first Lisa um I can go to the vacancy the report provided showed 30 vacant units we're actually now down to 26 and out of those 26 14 of them are also rented so we're making some huge progress on getting these leased up the only thing that's been standing in the way is the aspen meadows kind of it's kind of hard to rent right now with all the construction going on for both the neighborhood and the senior because people don't want to come in with the parking lot torn up or contract trucks all around so we are seeing a slowdown there but she has been able to rent a few of those the spring creek heartstone lodge and fall river are completely full right now and the suite has 10 vacants but seven of those are pre-leased so making some progress are Lisa Lisa how many of the how many of the 10 are associated with mhp eight okay i wanted to make that point because when we talk about vacancies at the suites we control some and mhp control some and typically where we're seeing the vacancy set is on the mhp side what is the contract like anyway with mhp is it are we required to give them those 10 units or okay is it a contract directly with mhp or is it with hud how was that yeah department of housing department of housing okay state yeah so they have 40 units yeah okay all right so we can't get out of that if we're seeing that they're just not renting them it's um it's a conversation that we're having and which is why i wanted to make the point when we look at vacancies there's things we can control and things we can't control this is a conversation that karen's having with other jurisdictions because they're seeing similar issues and the issue is that mhp is the only karen what are they called they're the only um authorized voucher administrator for the division of housing for boulder county and so and so to herald's point i i you know there there certainly has been advocacy with throughout the county of um having doh open up that process for other administrators to apply rather than just having one entity being able to serve that role so where is it go ahead go ahead and i see i see you know value to them uh having those units but i also want them to use the units because it's also taking a spot away from somebody else that could be using that unit like long term it is and and um and i think we talked about this before is that we are um i would imagine you know tom it's going to be this week first part of next week is that we will be submitting to the division of housing um an alternative tenant selection plan that again um lets us for those mhp vouchers let's us draw from three different sources of applicants to be able to um fill the um the units that mhp manages on um in in a better more efficient um and faster way so we are we are working it and um because it doesn't matter who who manages those vouchers it it it absolutely affects the bottom line for the lha for sure yeah and it just seems like it's an ongoing problem that that's kind of what we're talking about is mhp's always having these vacancies that are outstanding yeah yeah and to our point that costs us money and creates financial issues for us um to the point where karen's really been leading the charge she's brought me in on one conversation where um basically said you're killing us and this needs a change which is why they're submitting that other proposal i think on the other side is also a parallel conversation with our other the jurisdictions we work in this world that we work with in this world so but folder housing partners the county and really as a collective once we get all of our once we get our arms wrapped around this in the message we want to send the doh i think it's a multi jurisdictional message coming from boulder county to open it up we still have some work to do i wanted to get this on your radar because it is something that we're working on and i didn't want to get i didn't want us to outrun our headlights on this one where else are we on the city report any questions on the vacancy so i will move into so i i know last um last meeting you asked you know can we see the budgets i do have the property budgets um ready to go um next month i could definitely have the lha and all the other properties ready so i wanted to at least present those to you today the system has two um different types so one is detailed and one is more of a count tree where it kind of rolls everything up um on administrative costs i don't know what you would like to see i think there's some things in the income that are missing that you would probably like to see such as you know how much is vacancies it's kind of rolling it up into net tenant income and i think vacancies is kind of an important thing um to review so i mean there's some things that i think it collapsed too much and and maybe some things that it doesn't but i you know want your feedback on what you'd like to see because i think there are abilities in the system to create different account trees that roll up differently um i may not be able to research and actually figure those out probably until the fall or winter um of the sheer so we can we can move forward with one of these reports we have right now um but getting your feedback would be great um the detail goes into the detailed budget which is you know everything that we've budgeted um we are finding that there are certain things that we probably need to be more detailed on um as far as coding wise so we can easier budget in the future um for example one of them was the payroll benefits you know there's one line for payroll benefits and that doesn't necessarily include what happens on the payroll side but other additional costs um such as workman's comp and life std all that that's a separate cost that you need to budget for and is not rolled into the payroll so we're starting to separate or separate those out and separate those things that can be more defined so that when we do go um to budget in 2022 it'll be a a little simpler for us um along with getting the kind of analysis on you know when it hits right now a lot of things are distributed evenly across the board but that's not how things hit you know you know gas fluctuates you know at different periods of the time the utilities fluctuate and so we want to get to a point where we can actually enter that fluctuation in the budget as well and I'm kind of doing that as I go so we can kind of get a baseline for next year does anybody have any questions yeah and I mean this is great it's very helpful um and kind of like I like that summary view and like if we could break out that net tenant income like you said that's kind of I was kind of on the same agreement of that and then the all the other expenses I mean if we did have questions we could just ask those and then you could provide the detail if need be um at that basis one thing that would be helpful is if we had a percentage of budget that was used um so then we could kind of compare how far along we are in the year to the total budget as well right if that could be added and it does so so there is the option on the on this to do what's called right now I just did the actual versus budget but you can do a tool that's called the variance so that'll do actual budget give you the variance in dollars and give you the variance percentage okay um so it's a four column it'll be a bigger report and I'll have to divide it but that's that's not not a problem yeah okay very good so one thing I would say on that because um I had a similar question and it may just take us some time to get better at this is also understanding seasonality and so Kendra kind of touched on this because what you'll see is the variances may look different but if if we're coming out of January February and March and we have a really cold winter you may see it look different just because of natural gas usage or and so just sort of a word of it's going to take us a year or so to figure out the seasonality within this and to continue fine-tuning yeah but that could be easily explained too yeah yeah that is a seasonality side to it you're going to you know or we're going to expect to see the utilities spike at the beginning of the year and slow down and then maybe spike in the summer again something like that yeah okay but this is this is exactly what I wanted and then if yeah if we have the the complete picture I think that's what we're looking for okay perfect I think the the other thing and some of the things that lease is doing that we've seen in other budgets just to give you a sense of we are really managing who we call in for services and and what we call in for and so we're running those through Dennis and Lisa because we were seeing some issues in different properties of where we were just calling people to come in and fix it versus having our maintenance folks trying to look at it and and so we're trying to get some cost containment there because as we look in the past I was seeing some outliers and past budgets of well why were we here and and so we're also making some operational adjustments based on what we're seeing in the financials so I have a question and I agree with Tom that I think we need to see the percentages because that gives us a better idea of where we're at and I want to make sure I'm looking at this budget correctly when I'm looking at actuals is that getting us from January through April yes it probably also includes some May whatever transacted in May the problem with the problem with the already the way it works is if I don't go out to so we can we can go out to April and it'll show you just what's been budgeted out to April on a divided that kind of get and that's where you would kind of see anomalies that would kind of get a little crazy once we start getting that fine tune and seasonality so obviously we can do that so if I do this range from January to April it it'll include just the budgets divided evenly to April along with the actual so I can do that I went out for the full year so you could see the entire budget so so let me know what you prefer that was going to be my question was is the budget the year or is it just for the quarter or however it goes okay yeah so I could do both I could do one that shows up to this point so that you can kind of see that along with showing the yearly analysis well if our budget but evenly for the year I think we just have a cut off of the previous month end and then that would be easier to review and look at if we're if we're not budgeting by month for a particular account it doesn't really matter that at that point okay so you should almost see you know if we budgeted perfectly you would see actuals equal budget but if there is some seasonality you would just you might see actuals about budget you can just explain that yeah yeah yeah okay so then I mean then you want we do we still need then the variance and the percentage if it's going to be like you're expecting the actual to equal the budget I I'll leave that to some of you guys well it depends on if you like that visual appearance yeah I would say yes because of that okay so tinder why is there nothing budgeted for expenses under the law just that just something weird happened in yard here well are you looking at financing expenses um I am looking at whatever all expenses under the lodge budget on the roll-up one there's zeros those are on the fight I see zeros on the financing oh no no no no no okay all right let me check that I see what you're seeing that that's a computer glitch because I've seen one where it has it all lined out I don't know what it is and then the assomato senior apartments we had like 2300 budgeted for tenant services and 35 000 in expenses do you know what that difference is that's probably the relocation that is the relocation costs that are coming through for the AMSA construction project we need to move that then because that's being covered by that's part of the project yeah so we were we're tracking them separately so that we have all those costs in one budget and then it'll get moved to to whip um my understanding was it was supposed to be um that was a soft cost that actually does get expensed down but uh lexas said that those can be rolled up into the construction so there are some things that can that need to be expensed and some things that can roll up into the capitalization so at first we thought those weren't okay allowed so you'll true up once it's done yeah yeah and then you'll either bring a revenue in or move the expense out it'll go into whip and then we'll capitalize it between what what gets divided between the loan um and what gets capitalized yeah so your take the expense out once it's ready yeah yeah yeah got you okay so if you all don't have any other financial questions we did um hire the um the accountant um to work with kindra correct kindra i meant her we are fully staffed we have the accountant she started probably about a month ago and we got the accounting technician she started last monday and so when you see some of the audits we'll explain this as we were going through transition some of the audit comments that we were planning to deal with and this method still existed because of the transition point but now once we're fully staffed they're working a plan for separation of duties if kindra and others are out and so we're now at the point where we're really dealing with those audit comments but you will see them again because of just where we were in the transition for last year but this year it's a much different picture so on the other if we can move to some of the other operational adjustments um on the security update um i just wanted to let you all know that we did get at the village where we were having issues with someone getting in um we did actually get the lot covers placed um and um what we've we haven't seen any of those issues again in that facility but the cameras are where they finished friday or lisa i know they were supposed to i believe they're all installed we're just waiting for the final hookups with um them getting it all on to the dvr system and having accesses and then getting our remote access set up so that'll be in place by end of week that'll be in place and then we're going to work a process where we can also work with our um who all has access and maybe even work with our police department and giving them access to it um that is also part of the project at aspen meadow senior apartments and the work that they're doing there we're also evaluating um how we can do that at aspen meadow's neighborhood um based on a conversation that we had friday in terms of security issues we think we're really dealing with the areas where we're seeing and we're not necessarily seeing those issues at other properties so we think we're in a really good spot now in terms of security and what we're dealing with um and getting these properties addressed um so you all know we've now added sarah arney who is in our crime-free multi-housing family housing group she has been working a lot with lisa and um dropped her name lisa karen karen um and we've included her in our weekly meetings to get those updates um you know knock on wood even from public safety's perspective in terms of issues that we were historically seeing at the suites um we're definitely getting a much different report now uh from public safety and where they're seeing the world so we're really happy about that i think that's a product of a couple of things and so this is really kind of purging on property security a um the fact that karen's been in the building um and establishing the relationships with the residents there has made a tremendous difference in terms of the interactions that we have at that location we've also brought brandy in from our senior services group and working on some of the case management and advising um all of us but karen on how we have the tenant relationship that's also made a significant difference so um mark on the wood behind me um generally that was the property where we were probably seeing the most significant issues and then the highest number of calls for service and those things and it is i think it's fair to say drastically different today than it was four months ago in terms of what we're seeing at the property so we're really happy with with the progress that we've made and i think it's really helping this inform other strategies that we use on other properties so i wanted to let you know um that's kind of again what we hope to see i don't think we thought we would be in this spot as fast as we were um but we're definitely starting to see the results and that's just testament to the entire team that's been working on this from top to bottom did i miss anything um security property updates lisa you probably got more property updates um i'm just to piggy back off of you for just an example when i started here back in december five months ago i was probably seeing two to three calls a night for the suites now i probably see maybe five calls for a week and that's involving core and every agency involved so we seen it when he says drastic it's a big probably about 20 call drop a week um we're also working on cameras for the neighborhood then we're going to probably try to get some security cameras over at spring creek in the lodge to just help with not the lodge spring creek and fall river um property updates i've been working with efficiency work throughout the city and new edison to get more better lighting throughout these properties so we've been we've gotten some grants so we will start installing new lighting for the exterior of the suites we hope that that install the start in two weeks briarwood we hope to start in about a week and a half then aspen meadows neighborhood then we are currently having the grant evaluations go through for the lodge and spring creek so that they will all have led lighting on the exterior of the building and some hallways just keeping our our cost down as well with switching this up and better lighting on the exteriors and then um finally for me before we moved to resident culture and karen um i did want you to know we have moved the staff to the civic center um and so they're here we did exercise the lease with dcp so they're in the in the property which for us is very important i talked to you all about this before their experience in managing housing really is a good fit in the partnership in the communication where we're still managing the units but they have a conduit to them and and they're used to that world was a good transition and so it has operationally for me um allowed me to have more interaction with folks just because they're in the building but i think it's also really truly bringing them into the fold and the city organization which is always what's difficult we're in multiple locations and so we did complete that work by agent you sound like a robot tom that was not in a comment about accountants in general yeah you can put it in the chat if you are where's the chat yeah i don't see the chat function so so to move things forward um i think i'll just talk if that's all right cameron um and just just uh a couple updates on the the resident culture so um and and just to um to build on what herald indicated about the staff moving into the civic center so so just to clarify that um we had basically seven staff members so um four staff members that would be the two housing choice voucher staff lisa you see here in our new space and then olivia so they are over in the community services side of things and then across the hall at the civic center we have uh kendra and then the names of our new staff members in accounting is um our uh april beamer who's our accounting technician accounting tech and then heather clark is our accountant and so kendra heather and april um are their offices are in with uh in with accounting and and finance on on the other side of the of the civic center so the um so i did want to let you know that we are in we are starting the process we have talked a while about uh starting to address the to to work on uh resident culture um within our within our uh residences that that we manage we are in a position where we're we're we can start that that process so so just to let you know the community managers have identified i think uh approximately 60 residents in um all of the the properties that the lha manages and what we are going to initially do is we have developed an interview guide that um that there will be several of us that are um that will be interviewing individual residents and we are going to be ask them really about four dimensions of of of community living if you will um so those have to do with a sense of community um how to have trusting um relationships trusting and respectful uh relationships within the uh in the residence with each other and also and with city and with um excuse me with lha staff members the third area is in communication and the fourth area that we'll be interviewing about is property management logistics so so basically it's um it's in an appreciative format where we're really looking at looking forward we're asking residents to reflect on the best of what they've seen in those areas and how we can build on that as um as lha in our residential communities we will basically then take that data from the individual interviews and then we will reach out and engage the broader communities um around the um what that means what we learned and and how to start moving those forward into um priorities for um for sustainable improvement within our within our properties so I did want to um so we hope to start that process that interview process um I would imagine we can start that in June have those completed in July and then continue on with the with the resident um with reaching out to all of the the residents I did want to let you know and this is something for y'all to think about as advisory board members that we've identified there's um there's at least four areas that the advisory board members can get involved in if you so choose to do so one we could use a couple of test uh interviews so we could use a couple individuals from the board to um for us to interview and we can test the interview guide and see what what we need to do to make that a stronger guide there might be some questions like that doesn't work so so anyhow we could use some test interviewers if anyone feels like they want to um be a guinea pig in that arena we also can use advisory board members to help with the interviews individual interviews of the residents we could use advisory board members to help us to analyze the data once we um get all of the interviews back we have to we have to uh basically compile and uh figure out what all this data means and then there's uh the last part of this is what we call making meaning and prioritizing um the data so those are the four areas that we are um that we would really love to have advisory board members be involved in I know in the past that you have identified that we we would like that you would like to be involved in some way shape or form with some of the work that we're doing with the um the individuals who live in our communities and so we are we are ready to roll that out so what I will do is I will send a follow-up communication email to you all and um and with those with those opportunities for um engagement for you to think about and um and let me know what you are interested in so that so Michelle wait with um with senior services is is helping to coordinate that um along with Lisa me um Olivia is is involved in that too and um and so we'll we'll reach out to you and to see if anyone has any interest in participating in the um kind of this next next phase of work that we're doing regarding the um the the culture of our residential properties um in the LHA soon to follow we'll probably doing a similar process with our our organizational culture um so we'll we'll see how this process works with our residents and uh and and soon we will be doing this with our um within our organizational culture we do have some vacancies that we hope to be able to fill um before we get this started so we do have we would like to be able to um to fill a couple of community manager positions um we've we've had those on in that recruitment process for a a little while um and we're we're just we're not we're having a hard time getting um qualified applicants so we are continuing to try to figure that out um and and then we also I think as we might have mentioned is that we will be hiring um a new supportive services coordinator for the suites what brandy queen has been doing is is kind of filling in temporarily and and really providing um some case management basically clinical consultation for um for some of the residents there and then we are moving forward this is something that we included in the budget to um to hire a supportive services coordinator for the um for basically hardstone and and lodge our 202 properties so we're um we're we're trying to figure out the right mix for the um for those positions um what we need in terms of skill what the market will pay and what we can afford so we're trying to figure all that out but um but I think as soon as we're able to bring all of those folks on board then we will really start that um that organizational culture work within the um the the LHA so that is my update and we'd be glad to answer any questions and it is fabulous to have our seven llama housing authority staff members here in the civic center it is as Harold mentioned you know and just go down the hall or I can yell over hey Olivia so so to have that kind of informal interaction to help us build the team and get work done is um is priceless so we are we are very happy to to be together thanks Karen uh anything else on the city report no so well let's roll on to item six other business any other business for the good of the order tom well I had questions kind of on you can hear me now my robotic yes well we can hear you updates from last meeting uh so the new pennant system with hardstone and lodge that was supposed to be fully implemented at April 21st we're good to go on that one awesome we we are just to update the pull cords are coming out today so we had a few issues getting it up and going they gave us the wrong number uh but what and again that's the relationship so then Sarah communicated and we got it worked out so it's going all right good um and then the other thing was I think uh Kathy you mentioned that there might be additional vouchers provided lha after a meeting on May 10th with the consortium that's some bad news sad news yeah we did not get meet the minimum threshold to get those you had to through their formula you had to qualify to get at least 25 um vouchers and we didn't meet that criteria um as a matter of fact we were kind of surprised boulder county housing authority and um boulder housing partners which you saw the number of vouchers they have compared to ours they only qualified for 35 each so it was uh I think so we got 70 ish in boulder county um there was 70 000 nationwide so we did not get selected um for that unfortunately we will be working with it stronger to get additional vouchers that the authority can look at yeah so we're we're working toward to improve the number of vouchers or increase the number of vouchers um we now have um really good data that we put into HUD's two-year tool which projects forward what your budget's going to be and how many vouchers you can you can lease with your budget we just um opened up 10 more vouchers um and have got seven of them filled um within two months less than two months um so that process we will take that data we'll put it into the tool and we'll keep adjusting it um and projecting forward what we can lease um lease up new vouchers so we're continuing to work on that okay and then before I went robotic uh the signage in front of I guess the briar would are we going to get rid of that then that says the one-on-one housing authority since really we're no longer there because again we're um they're working with planning in terms of what they need to do from this from a sign code perspective and so you don't want to take it off and not replace it because they create sign code issues and so they're they're working through and working with our planning division on that issue and the only thing I wait are we going to change the official address then to the city as well yes and we have done that so we have um and I'm sure we're continuing to do that but uh yes we we've been making that address change um for to 350 Kimbark Street for the kind of the official location for the the housing authority and you know and then I think to Harold's point is that we also at we also put in the lease agreement that uh vcp would uh would consult with the um housing authority in addition to planning particularly around the um the sandstone sign out on main street is that um that so we want to make sure that that is that's able to remain or maybe they can put a skin over that but anyhow we we want to be consulted for the final um final sign design for what goes on that main street sign sure and I think just the clarification on those those vouchers that Kathy talked about again those are emergency housing vouchers those are primarily focused on individuals who are experiencing homelessness those are not permanent vouchers so um so so they um that we can lease up through uh September of 2023 um and and if any of uh any of those of residents who have a voucher um and if they let those go after September 2023 those vouchers will not be replaced and um and then I think as Kathy indicated that we are working together we have the homeless solution for Boulder County we all of the entities are working together so we also anticipate that um lawnmont individuals who are experiencing homelessness or or maybe we are also looking at at using those vouchers in more of a move on scenario where maybe we have individuals who have been in permanent supportive housing and maybe they have more stability that they are ready to move on for um for a tenant based voucher that those might be individuals that would be first eligible or will use some of those new vouchers for that so lawnmont residents will be in the mix and certainly some of our suites residents that are in permanent supportive housing would um would possibly be able to access those vouchers thanks for the clarification any other business Arlene well I just have kind of an idea and I'm not even sure where it needs to go or if it's even a viable idea but when we're looking at affordable housing in particularly when we're looking at um you know three four levels of housing with 60 80 say 120 units in there and we're looking at the possibility that the people moving in there are going to be two income families what is the how can we add a daycare center into that to help those people um I realize that we might be taking away from a rental unit the space but I think that the leasing of that particular area for a daycare childcare even after school care would offset whatever it was that we would get in rent so I don't know where that needs to go if that's even you know a possibility that I was wondering if that's something we could take a look at to help these people out you know rather than have to drive across town with their kids it would be right there and of course it would be licensed interesting idea that definitely go yeah we're all thinking right now yeah well and the only thing that I would say is that and I don't know Laura my house and information but um Boulder housing partners um they have incorporated that model and several other properties so it's kind of a they they have built like a community center um as part of some of their residential developments and have have provided um you know those services so they have um they have um the I have a dream foundation that provides um you know support to um you know after school and and um and scholastic support so they are they operate a program in in in one of the Boulder housing partners community centers so so we certainly can reach out and and talk to Boulder housing partners um about how they have done that they certainly have incorporated that in some of the properties. Holly know that uh they do that in various um housing authority projects in Los Angeles too and all over the place uh I mean all over the country it's a really good idea because child care is one of the most essential things for women who 20% of women have left the workforce and that's the main reason why and speaking for myself as having been a single parent it's a real nightmare to try to find child care good child care and um if it's in the building it is really really helpful and it is also great cost savings to everybody so I think it's a really a good idea that we should pursue if we're able to find um ways to do the funding and we you know it is one of city council's um goals to work with uh early childhood education but this is certainly um really important to people with low income is to have some help with child care yeah I know BHP does that I I can't remember if we have that set up at Kestrel I know we have a community center but I I don't think at Kestrel we have child care but if we have if we're building any developments with the idea of putting in either um some market-rate rental commercial property and then a community center that we can rent out I mean if we provided a space for a child care provider at a reduced cost and then worked with either head start and then also CCAP through the state um we might be able to provide residents um with some pretty pretty affordable child care um I think that's also a great idea because as I'm patting the butt of my baby now why in this meeting finding child care is hard um and expensive um so yeah I I I like that idea if it's possible well I think this is the the exact right time to bring it up as we're we're starting to develop our our goals for the future and having a more in-depth discussion with council so good timing any other business we'll see none I would move that we adjourn and focus our attention on getting ready for the next meeting and if there are no objections I'm not even going to vote we're just going to say we're adjourned and uh appreciate your time this morning