 It is seven o'clock. I'll call the order this meeting on February 5th 2024 of the Waterbury Select Board first item on the agenda is to approve the agenda. Do I have a motion? I move to approve the agenda I'll second that and propose two additions After housing task force objectives if we could add the discussion on the use of the school as a polling location And also review of a FEMA buyout Okay, I hear a second on the amendment second Voting on the amendment all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Okay, now we're voting on the Agenda as amended all there to say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? All right The agenda is approved as amended Next item is the consent agenda. Do I have a motion? I make a motion to approve the consent agenda for the minutes of the January 29th meeting as well as the second class license the tobacco license for AGS AGS Voting second then all there to say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? All right. The consent agenda is approved as written Next is the public session anyone that would like to address anything that is not on the warned agenda please come forward Chris Thanks, everyone. I mentioned it to Alyssa the other night at the meeting there on the armory That other meeting that we had at the fire station. I'm wondering if the select board might have Would have the stomach to do a 10-year projection of what the town would be looking at as far as costs For the next 10 years, you know with fire each of the department heads try to put together the best Idea that they have as far as what they might have to have additional cost truck truck replacements fire truck replacements town town equipment replacements anything that any of the departments may have in their vision as far as Road upgrades Maintenance on buildings, you know any big ticket items. I know Gary's mentioned something about the heat system for a Partial heat system for one of the fire departments An upgrade for that or for a misreplacement just some idea of a projection for the next decade As a as a taxpayer and a citizen I'm starting to get concerned I Don't know if there's a way of putting the pieces of the puzzles together to get a Projection for the next decade the school the school systems are becoming an issue I heard on the radio the other day that because I was talking about trying to get an idea of where that might that that whole entity might be headed in the next 10 years and Long and behold they talked about the state was looking at the disrepair of all the school buildings in the state and they're proposing a $300 million a year expenditure for the next 21 years consecutive to bring schools up to par So that's that that's a huge number in this equation and then you've got your year over your budgeting for your school systems Affordable housing is an issue all these things factor into Sustainability whether or not as taxpayers what we can actually Afford to stomach Before we're pushed out or have to do right now the way I see it. We're we're living on a year over a year Band-aid at best You know trying to get through one year We've got bridges that need repairs, you know, and then then there's much factors for inflationary things Housing is projected to go up another 3.5 percent this year Just a lot of numbers that Even though we're the select board you deal with the municipality. There's other entities that are also impact us heavily And as taxpayers it'd be nice and if there's a way I can help with part of that If you do decide to maybe think about entertaining it I'll do what I can to try to get some numbers together But I think we're headed into some unprecedented times with costs And I don't I don't know if we have the ability to burden Chris what would you be looking at the Katie a projection because I know If like for instance the armory if like you're talking about that that's supposed to be 90 days, you know, it's not Even in it's in there, but it's not, you know schools are really a outside issue To us anything that impacts us. I can understand if you're looking at us looking at long-term improvements to systems based upon the growth of the community Yeah, we got we got issues that we're going to have to take care of as a municipality and how we going to fund those how many bonds are we going to take out How's that going to impact our tax rate let alone with just some givens from the You know from this education side of things Who knows how this state education? Proposals gonna gonna settle out Before it's done what what the impact of that is going to be and that doesn't even start to address the disregarder of the school systems And what they're the 300 million they're talking about, you know year-over-year for the next time I think anything in the school system in the school budgets doesn't technically impact Arminis or how it comes out of our pockets. Well, come down You know I've talked about The paving plan going forward several years in advance Gary's got a plan for replacing his trucks going forward. What do you think about? Chris's request Ten years, I think is It's too many unknowns. I think ten years is too far Most times that I've got both plans look forward three years five maybe five a bit of an exception Could we we can certainly pull together some figures like a three to five year plan. Are you are you thinking to be because it's I get your point there's too many unforeseen But I think there's there's basics Yes, I'm sure Gary's got an idea of what trucks are gonna need to replace and on their You know their cycle that they we have all that That's our most How how's this new ambulance building gonna impact us because there are per capita is going up What else are you know we gonna be responsible from that? I think I think if we have an overall just a basic plan in place you probably could plug in a touch factor For inflationary things that would at least give us some clue as to you know All right, let's see what we can do We'll put it on the agenda for the next meeting All right, any other comments from the public anything not on the morning Hearing none, let's move on to the what what the flood update do you have more specifics on me? Should have already 10th event that people seen the flyer But you'll be seeing it out there February 10th 6 to 9 There will be a substantial amount of donated food at the event But there will also be some food purchased for the event because you probably want something out of them brownies Not to do the great brownies only about five on Six to nine at the Legion It's I think gonna be a pretty late-hearted fun event. There will be some some speakers. I think making brief remarks But I think overall it's it's late-hearted food music enjoyable. Thank you to the volunteers Cash par and anyone is invited if you were flooded if you were helped with the flood if you were Any way a part of the recovery, please come to the event There is on-street parking there's some accessible spaces on-street right near right near the Legion So I think I'll be fun Just saying the date out Again, it's this Saturday at the time from six to nine at the Legion and hope folks can make it And there will be a wall of paper plate awards So also if there was someone who made a particular impact in your flood recovery or just being part of a community member Just know you'll have an opportunity to recognize them Again, just the goal of recognizing like what the community has been through and not we're not done yet There's still more to do but also that having fun as part of being in it for the long term. So hope folks can make it All right All right No other questions on the what the flood update we'll move on to the next item on the agenda, which is the entertainment permit for good fire Do we have anyone representing good fire Okay, we did receive the application Does anyone have any questions concerns or would like to make a motion I have some Good fires, it's a very small property And my concern is with a live music event that they've not reached out to their neighbors Feels funny saying that Former touring musician, but I will say it nonetheless If you're gonna have an event outside You should probably do the courtesy of reaching out to your neighbors, which is a question I would have asked someone if they I didn't see much of a parking plan They don't have extensive parking there in Waterbury Center people I guess I still have more questions and answers It also happens to be the weekend of the eclipse I don't think so. Well, I also don't know that our I don't know that our application asks them for that specifically for what's our Expectations of crowds My concern living on that street is that it is a small parking lot And so with cold hollows, I don't know right across the street You do tend to get a lot of people crossing back and forth across for 100 They mentioned in an email to me that they were going to reach out to neighbors about overflow parking But they didn't send me any information that actually speaks to them doing that It says they're gonna have their employees park off-site. It doesn't say where So they said no traffic or parking impacts We've seen any busy weekend you can anticipate And it can be dealt with if you're willing to hire a sheriff to retrat and That sort of thing, but I'm not seeing any of that in this application Yes, ma'am. They did also mention that no alcohol or cannabis will be sold or consumed outside Anything about inside and I don't know what there's their state law Restricted, I would assume there's laws for sensory. Yeah, I Wasn't sure about that. I don't know if a cannabis place In general, I think there's a lot of Easily conflated what ifs I don't think that it's in general from 1130 to 5 without, you know alcohol is gonna be a huge deal, but I personally would rather ask them some questions and have some backup in mind so curious about like You know, we're Two full months away and what the deadline might be and if we could request that they come to the next meeting Before being approved Conditional approval or I would make a motion that the staff from Vermont Good fire cannabis Attend the next select board meeting to answer some future questions because I know a carrot in our thing She said a zoom link would be available to them so they couldn't go Yeah Seconded any further discussion Yeah, I just think for the future we need to think about what information we asked a permit applicant to apply We're applying it there So I'm not saying that we're not bringing up relevant information But I guess I would say if I was the light person off the street filling this application out I wouldn't know that I needed to provide this and just to flag for us. It's akin to the parade conversation I know it says you have to follow all pieces of the ordinance and then you have to pull up the ordinance and Cross reference have I addressed it and just go ahead Karen. Yes, this is attached to the ordinance so while I didn't print it it does have a Pretty specific list of obligations that they have to fill they brought this to me last year Just like one piece of paper and I wrote back and said no no no you have to gather all this information Yeah So in my opinion, it's not complete based on the correspondence I have with them asking for example for a parking plan Totally, and I guess I'm just having not filled it out because you've done have that piece I just didn't know we listed all those requirements outs for folks. So it was super clear Again, I'm gonna support the motion. I think we should get more information. So it's a follow-up I just think so that ideally we're not in this Situation in the future again. My goal is how do we get you a complete application up front that has all the information We need to make a decision in one go versus having to iterate I'm just like work because we don't memorize it and it's gonna be new people in a few months So that it's consistent for us to be able to look at and make decisions based on I think I would agree I'm working towards that And kind of Alyssa in response. I would hate to make these entertainment permits too complex because Good applicants, you know, we're pretty straightforward. This is probably what it's gonna be. It's I think that's why it's it's an applicant's You know responsibility to either show up here or go on zoom so we can ask questions, you know I don't think you know you want to make a 10-page application for something that could be very mundane Any further discussion all those say I Okay Revitalizing water Like you had three seats So I just wanted to do the people of revitalizing waterbury You are Dennis Palak. I'm the marketing associate and I'm You know me as Karen the executive director and Roger you invited me us to be here I Can speak on all sorts of things or if there are a certain direction you would like me to talk about I Understood from Tom that our financial request was not Necessary to discuss if you want me to discuss that we can Yeah, I mean, I think we looked at it as not being particularly controversial So you can Invite you to sort of hit the highlights But also we'd like to hear more about the upcoming agenda for RW. Yes And that's exactly what I want to talk about so Our W I think you're aware of has a number of different things we focus on business support and economic development and we have economic development director, which you Support in a really significant way and so Owen's work is for the entire town of waterbury We also market and promote our town with Dennis doing social media and All all sorts of kind of Promotions and communication We also take care of what the town looks like the design committee that float the beautiful garlands and All of those kind of pieces we work as Mike Losiabo and the town to help work on that And We just do whatever else comes up and one of the things I brought for you It's our strategic plan. I thought you might like to see you're to the strategic plan So I'm going to hand it out. You can look at it at your own leisure But it is Something we we do annually is update our strategic plan and we focus on business support We focus on marketing and promotion We focus on what we call our community the design what it looks like but also accessibility and Clusivity that's really important We are very focused this year on communications as a tool that we need to improve on and then just our W organization What I'd like to do is have Owen and Dennis just speak very briefly on some of the projects. They're working on this from here Yes I've been in this position for two months and I believe I Recently finished up the downtown reinvestment statistics reporting which is required for us to maintain a designated downtown accreditation That one pretty successfully. I had like a 50% response rate ish It's estimated roughly million Rehabilitation by businesses in the downtown and a little over 250 Okay in facade improvements, and then we've had that gains and workforce on both full-time and part-time employees So that was good and I got that done and the other main thing I'd say I'm working on a couple other ones are updating our economic development strategic plan as it's fairly Messy at the moment. So I'm doing a complete rewrite on that and then I am talking to four organizations about commercial properties at the moment So that has some lights So your economic Development strategic plan is not part of this document. No the EDSP actually a few you will find it on Goal 1.5 review work update the economic development strategic plan and bring it to the town to accept so it is one of our high priorities listed for this year Other things we you know, there's a variety of things, but there's also some key things we want to focus on Business mixers we are keeping those going on some programs around workshop We have a desire with this conversation around the armory. We've had a request last year for some workshops around Deescalation of people and in businesses business really you know when it happens when there's people in the store So we're trying to pull that And what should we expect the economic development? I would say I'm trying to have a Draft for the W. ADC and I are March meeting So March I would say you'd see it. You'll we'll get it to you second quarter Okay, for sure. Let us get it all tidied up and then we'll get it to you guys So I think that's our game plan. I did that I'm having to scrap the entire thing Just do it for you, right? No, we hired I told him take take ownership of this document Dennis, what are you working on? Yeah, the reprint of the discover one of very guides Seeing as though the last time this was updated was two years ago there's been a lot of new businesses come into town and so it's pretty important to get that updated and My job being to promote and enhance and just communicate with everyone. This is really big As is social media There's a lot of eyes on there now. And so being able to continue to create a presence and a voice has been Crucial and some of our social media is really trying to focus on our businesses in town and not just the standard ones We love Stowe Street and Florian, but they have a lot of Visibility, so let's get the small businesses that aren't being seen as much. Yeah, and we had a discover water barrier account Which was mainly for tourists Now there's a revitalizing water barrier account, which is strictly for local businesses and communicating with the people in town versus Out of town and in town being mixed, which sometimes can get confusing some So for a couple other projects the eclipse is coming we all know that And one of the things that we are all working on is and we're working really partnering with Katerina in and the town on how to make sure we have a Safe and pleasant experience during the eclipse And I know you remember that wonderful day when I brought in the glasses And I just I you can be the very first people to see this because it hasn't even gone out yet we are Created a plier Eclipse 2024 prep lights out for business as usual So this is going to be communications that we'll be getting out this week to our our businesses in the area on things to consider like Maybe you're not open on Monday as a restaurant, but be open on Monday as a restaurant Maybe you're only open at dinner serve lunch Think about where your employees are going to park because they may not be able to get out when they leave so there's a lot of really good questions on here and This is a big piece of about the eclipse is Our concern is just educating the businesses. We still bump into people who go. Oh Have to care about that and we go well you may not be able to get into your store And then they their eyes they go ping-pong-pong-pong. Oh, what if I bought more inventory and opened my store up early that day? Ta-da, so they're beginning to think about these things So we're very focused on the eclipse and really appreciate the partnership We have with Katerina to make sure that works out. Well, I Just one question on that one The previous agenda item was on good fires entertainment Outdoor log music event Five or so on that Saturday Is that part is that figure into your planning at all or they part of your so it's a good question So right here it says the stays range from Friday April 5th to Tuesday April 9th With most week festivities or activities starting on Saturday. So we I did an inventory of the The lodging and We're between 50 and 70 percent booked right now Fairfield is a hundred percent book Most of the small ends are a hundred percent book. Best Western is 50 percent books She fully expects to be fully booked by that It's been nice Krista Boutish actually experienced the eclipse in Tennessee and so she and Lynette from good fire as part of our team on business communication and to help develop this communication One of the things we've asked people to do is if you create events let us know and Dennis can start promoting the events So we I knew about her event. She it happens to be her Anniversary so they didn't even think about the eclipse when they started plan But now they know it's also the eclipse day. So yeah, so there's a lot of Pieces I think you know Tom we've talked to Tom about it and there's some conversation that will just have Game day decisions or a couple days before decisions based on Thinking about parking and all all these other components. We have a meeting I'm just thinking about that Eric Pembroke from the buildings and general services did not respond to set up that meeting this week with his deputy commissioner and the state to talk about the The parking lots we're really trying to encourage them We already know make the state complex We already know that park businesses plan on doing business as usual and not allowing people You know not doing anything with the parking and we think they'll get caught off guard and sing them a good way Indie you will to Vermont Parking lot on railroad street. That's That is owned by Wayne Lambert in it is private parking lot for the thing, but it's mostly the public people park when they want to We're working on it The state is public parking of course, but we would like to encourage them to be remote that day Parking just to get their official blessing to use it Maybe manage it if we need to right and then Karen correct me if I'm wrong But I think if you try to book a hotel in Waterbury now You can not book it for the day before you've got a bucket for that Oh, you have to buy it for at least you have to get two days and For Krista she has people checking out and checking in on Monday and anyone checking out She's given permission to leave their cars there so they can stay through the eclipse and then leave Melissa Moore Requires people to stay overnight on Monday night to Tuesday now. They can leave on Monday But she's they're paying for their parking spot and room for that night. So everyone's you know, and I think I don't know what the prices are but I Don't know. I'm pitching a tent. I am so for my family And then just one other point Any weekend in early October we can anticipate that 100 is going to be chock-a-block between exit 10 so And we did receive some complaints about the traffic backup and lack of traffic control in the Waterbury Center So I'm wondering well, I know it's part of our conversation. Here's the problem You've got only so many sheriffs to spread around the entire state northern part of Vermont. I mean There's only so many people to do the work Before I know a lot of people who aren't even sending their kids to school that day They should just not go and I know a lot of people just not gonna send their kids to school because they can't we'll be able to get to them So I I have some significant concerns about the roads that day Especially for the folks who are working at the places that will be Tourists if they can't get to work we can't open those businesses And that's actually addressed here. That's one of the questions is really right on what impact of your employees Where will they park? How will they get in? How will they leave if possible? Have your employees work remotely or we also have suggested somewhere to We talked about creating a off-site Town parking lot where people can put their employees and then walk into town. So that's a good Yeah, just one of the many ones and these came from a great conversation that Owen and I had with Krista and Lynette as they were brainstorming these ideas another really cool idea is to create I'm going off topic. I'm going down the eclipse Rabbit hole, which is really easy to do but I'm just going to finish another thought they suggested was making Randall and Elm a pedestrian street and Railroad and Union a pedestrian street so that people who are parked in the exterior Can walk easily into town without having to do a laser. It's just an idea Katerina and I are working and we'll see how it goes. I do want to talk about One other main thing that a big thing that we're really focused on this year and that is mentioning route 100 We Back in the day, we were a downtown organization only caring about the downtown that changed in 2016 So that's about eight years ago and since then we've been wanting to focus up with 100 The reason it changes we hired an economic development director by the town of the town wanted You know, we're not going to have the economic development director only restrict his His area of focus so the entire town became part of revitalizing water breeze concern Since then we've been trying to focus on the 100 prior providing business support and other Activities and things like Main Street Reconstruction and the pandemic cat us sort of focused here starting in 2024 We really are going to try to create some real good Plans programming talking to the businesses. What can they what do they want from us? Every one of our committees are thinking about this marketing and promotion was thinking about it the design committee is thinking about extending garlands up route 100 economic developments, you know working So it's really this all-encompassing goal this year of thinking about How to support those businesses so that they feel like they're as much part of us Us being the town of water brain not just revitalizing waterbury. So that's one of our big focus. I mean, there's plenty of other things Take a look We're here. I just a couple questions and it may be a town issue versus Waterbury trash receptacles clean up following overnight parking with people may be coming in with campers or cars You know, if we don't have a good plan of Factor or policing while this is going on I mean people could be parking in front of people's houses and camping overnight I don't know the answer about trash. I do know we've ordered a ton of porta-potties. I forget the exact number We've been told that's not enough, but that's what we get Yeah, and part of our internal conversation has been to people that if you live on the main tracks and you can Let people park in a driveway to go ahead and charge in 20 bucks if you can do that. We've talked about Dacro But it could be a mud pit in April 6th, and we're not going to ruin the fields for it So yeah, all those things will be challenged We'll try to figure out the garbage piece. I think you're right. We're going to need to make a little more investment there Yeah I'm sure many of you've been to a huge venue where you've not many this many people but you know what it looks like Sometimes whenever he plays a left I get I think it's quite messy Some of the areas I was concerned about back side of the river I mean that's a lot more dexbury, but you have a new ski street down there on the bridge the underpass on Stowe Street I mean, Mr. Lamberton owns that private land there, but that's not going to stop people from just kind of hasn't yet From camping there. So just kind of want to bring that up. I think school for revitalized waterbury. It's all about messaging We're just making sure we get it's not we cannot be responsible for the whole Eclipse experience, but our goal is to make sure that we have and we have we've asked these questions public safety parking Education the community education of the businesses promotion and events really I mean these meetings have been going on for months and we We're just making sure the questions arise Thank you for your support as always We we appreciate it. I think revitalizing waterbury has been around for 30 plus years it's We're strong and healthy and I feel that we do a lot Actually, I'll tell you one last little nugget In the communications world and the world of volunteers. I love your volunteer appreciation event We will be planning later probably late spring What we're calling a volunteer mixer and we're going to connect with all of the nonprofits in town and Invite them to do you could also be called a volunteer Fair where all the different nonprofits can set up tables will invite Anybody who's interested in finding out how better to get involved does not just come and sign up for an RW committee but sign up for for my or The dog park or what reservoir or the library so we're really planning this event It was done up in stow and they was highly successful with over 150 people showing up so we're really looking to Obviously increase the Volunteerism with revitalizing waterbury, but actually for all the communities and people have been asking How do I get involved? And so we've decided to create this kind of community-wide event We're very excited about it. This town's full of volunteers. You guys know it But there are also a lot of people who just don't know how to get Involved so we're going to figure out how to do that Chris Yeah, Karen Do you expect this this event's going to be kind of overwhelming regardless of the weather? Yeah, yes So There's an opportunity there where you could create two fictitious teens Clear blue sky or I Said what's your absolutely worst thing that could happen on Monday the 8th? I said it would be cloudy It's still gonna be dark Because the sun does go behind so even for three and a half two and a half to three minutes It's still gonna be done. So that you know, I mean, I have the eye damage though. I still wear my glasses But yes, I think people are coming regardless regardless and We're projecting 10,000 for the town of Waterbury We project that and I remember telling you guys this partly because we're on 89 If you get in Boston and you start driving you can stop and Montpelier come to Waterbury, you know, yes You can get off then you can get off the interstate try to go for 100 But then you're starting to get into crowds. Why go any further than? Montpelier I kept struggling to get context and finally the context I got was the numbers projected to come to Vermont are roughly double The opportunity I see for the eclipse is that people are going to arrive on Friday and Saturday They have nothing to do but come eat in our restaurants and shop in our stores Because it's April. They're not going to go hiking mountain, you know, they're not going to go kayaking on the reservoir They're going to be in town That's our window of opportunity and that's the message to the businesses. Make sure you're open Make sure you figure that out. That won't be as crowded as Karen, you know, I know but could you update the rest of the select board on the Alley project. Oh, yes, there's so many things to talk about. I forget them all Very exciting The alley project is moving forward We we ran to some bumps last fall That we are working out, but our goal is to break ground Mid to late April, I would say may first we probably be the latest After the eight absolutely after the eight and We have a Sculpture entrance sculpture that will be going to the DRV in March for its final approvals are we have lots of people currently Choosing lighting designs we have people working on Choosing planters and benches There is more fundraising. There's going to be a very large fundraising campaign that will be launched right in the beginning of April Connected to the better places program at the state. You give me a hundred. They'll give me 200 that equals 300 So it's a two-to-one match and the goal for us to raise 20,000 and we'll bring in another 40 that's 60,000 project Probably needs to we would need to raise about 80ish thousand dollars left So that would take a good chunk of it your gift to this project is Significant and we really appreciate it We have just launched a new communications campaign. You'll start seeing it on social media in other ways so from today Moving forward. I think it's Every Monday every Monday every Monday. They'll be social media posts about the project as we build Yeah, Mike is on our fundraising committee and has been very Very excited can't believe we're getting there. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you for letting us come and take up your time Thank you. All right Next on the agenda we have the planning commission So we're the rivals We're gonna just Hi, Dana, so you know the projector in the community room isn't working. I know you're shocked So I can see you and Roger can see you But most of the board cannot Anyway, please chime in Okay, thanks. Thanks. Bye Well All right, and do we have representatives of the DRD here Harry's on one. Okay. Sorry. Who's Oh, Harry? Harry? All right, why don't you in mind introducing your commission The order and first of all, let me thank you for the tremendous work that all of you have put in over the past year The finish line Thanks. I guess I'm gonna ask before I start going you guys all have This is because that's what we're gonna sort of speak from. Yeah with me my name is Margaret Staskins this is Mary Cohen and Everybody knows Billy Victor and We have Dana Allen who is attending remotely I guess I could take a few seconds to just demonstrate the talent that you have on your planning commission Mary's got the historical knowledge to bring in a lot of the process that has gone on Before I was there Dana brings a very nice element of GIS mapping. So when we talking about zoning districts we really rely on Dana's expertise and Suggestions and design to be able to present the information Along that line and then Billy has come to us with questions to war He asks more questions, which which are keep us on our toes I think that's really important to have us look at, you know, maybe something that we hadn't thought about before And then lastly we do want to give a massively huge thank Thank you to Neil. Neil has just made this whole process a completely different Operation experience and quite frankly successful to this day. Thank you. Thank you So with that, thank you to the Select Board for having us here We We're what we're going to present here is an overview, but we really want to articulate what we think Would be there's this this is a massive document in a massive effort as everybody knows and so we are very hopeful We think it's extremely important for the select board to be participating in the public hearing process If you're at all able to come to one or both And because it's going to come to you eventually Once we get through making a record as our recommendation of the product is to you so What we have here tonight is we just want to highlight the goals of why we're doing this The tools that are available for you to look at and review to sort of stream down some of this amount of data and then The other thing that is in this document specifically is the is the purpose statements for each zoning district So we have spent some time we really sort of we work from the goals And then we go to the purpose statements and spend some time looking at you know, what is each zoning district? What's the goal of that zoning district and with that then we can come to the uses whether it's permitted Conditional be based upon what's the purpose of that zoning district? So in this document, we've given you we pulled those out of the whole UED by law phase one document itself, so you have them handy and easily accessible I'm not going to read this if you can read it yourself on them. We want to be brief We want to actually open it up to your questions. So again, we have been While we're looking at the document and trying to make it applicable to the town where we've been on a huge Information intake we've you know se group as our outreach coordinator. Thank you for granting the funds to get them to help us We have put out some information and we've been listening and taking it in It is a live document So the materials that are on the website are what was and storyboards and Dana's going to talk about the slider map What is on is what was prepared back in the fall when we first worked with se group? And we've continued to take information in not all of it is in Is how do I say this publicly posted? Right, okay, so we have we if you see something That's not what you thought just check with Neil or one of us because it's probably in the live document That's not posted at the moment Okay What I'm trying to say is this is an iterative process and until we get to the document that we present to you We won't be done taking information and making I mean with the public hearing is for hearing the public So we expect to hear something that we may need to go back and tweak something one way or another All right I'm gonna be brief Mary you or Billy you want to add anything Dana do you want to add anything or comment on the map itself or wait for questions? If you want me to address the the map, I'm happy to or answer questions on it What's your pleasure I'd be interested in hearing what have been key points of controversy within your group or What you've heard when you have done the interactive Meetings so with the se group and how do you address? One of the things that we the map we started with Took more blocks of the town we tried we made a point the current map isn't necessarily the boundaries of the districts don't align with property lines and we tried to do that but We we came to this in the last year with sort of some Chunks of this part of town that would be mixed use or neighborhood or Conservation and we've refined that based upon the end. So and so I think the map you have in front of you is is Correct me if I'm wrong data is Updated to the to today, you know sort of what boundaries we see what parts of town, but It's changed quite a bit based upon but public input from where we started I'd say a year ago Yeah, if I could if I can address that too You know, I wouldn't say it's controversy, but we did rescue feedback during our information sessions about certain areas of town You know in particular with respect to mixed use or neighborhood two of our new zoning districts And so actually in the past the map that you're seeing right now We've actually changed the significant portion of town notably around the school To neighborhood designation from where it had been as mixed use So if you go to the slider map on SE groups information website and some of those storyboards You'll see that that area around the school used to be mixed use We've significantly revised that in this most updated version. I don't know if we'll be able to get SE group to revise that slider map I'm not sure that we still have Bandwidth in the contract with that we need to talk to them about that But our mapping will reflect that and so that's a big thing that came out of this another thing that you'll notice in this is that the downtown district has been expanded To the railroad bridge that came out of public comments And then finally, I think something that is different and it's you know Maybe not as obvious from the slider map, but the downtown design review district We actually expanded that to encompass all of the downtown districts mixed use along Main Street The campus area, which is primarily the state complex And we extended that design review district into the mixed use areas that are northwest of the roundabout You know, and that was in response to some of the concerns that we heard from the public Some of the sentiment that we received there and as well as you know, some of the DRB's desires, I think So that those are some changes that we've made that I wouldn't really necessarily say are controversial They're just relatively large changes and that did come out of the information sessions Those weren't public hearings to be clear, but they did come out of that process Yeah, we Good to point out. We've also added and this is to our concerns over the floods We've added a district called conservation flood plain and at the moment is made up of primarily if not all I think there's one that might not be one might be a private property But the others are utility properties railroad properties public properties. So they're not Destined really for a lot of other development anyway, and they're primarily along the river So we're saying nothing no permitted uses And so that's new for sure specifically to that situation The other to your question Roger, I would say obviously with the housing conversations that are going on statewide We've done a lot of work a lot of work Density lock coverage setbacks those details in terms of trying to create infill opportunities in in the phase one area particularly so We know there's phase two and so when we're talking about a zoning district that we know is in phase two We have to be extra careful about you know jumping too far So we're trying to balance that and we'll see where it will end up in the end game I think we also heard some grumblings about height Well, that's the other yeah in the depth. So if you want to address it go ahead No, no, no, I mean, it's the it's the numbers. Okay the numbers the density a lot coverage lot size height So in downtown we've got 60 feet now because that's consistent with the interim The five interval laws that were passed But I fully expect a bunch of people to ask what what we're doing I don't think Anyway, it's the numbers is what I think you should focus on So in the document there and this we should point this out to in the document There is an appendix. We've taken the dimensional uses the use the use table the dimensional table What do they say dimensional standards table? And the dimensional definitions are all in the appendix and we would ask you look at that Not there's underneath we're waiting for s e group to finish these But we call the gray tables up in the front of the document and those are not 1605 not necessarily That's the zoning outline excuse me the outline zoning districts and the purpose statements are there, but then there's right Don't look at the tables below that. They're not accurate yet So go to find this if you if you say oh, I live in Mixed use what's going to be allowed go to the appendix I know that our fire chief expressed some concern about Heights of buildings. I don't know exactly where his cutoff is uh, four stories four stories. Yeah four stories. What is he? Because higher than that Find your equipment big sure and then marry that to act 47 or s 100 that if it's Low-modern income housing they get a bonus of putting on another story You see we're so we're trying to actually stay away from stories and just talk about feet A visual that's helpful is on the s e group materials They put these visuals together to show you when you when I look at the dimensional tables My eyes just kind of span with no background, but they've done some nice depictions and it's on the website And it's pretty close All right, and so that's a good place to get a visual if you're a visual not a number first but Can you say something more about the campus district? Because I know the campus district is the you know state complex, but at some point in time we never know Yeah So the goal of I think I can address that okay, so the goal of the campus district We sort of feel like there's a future. We want to play. I think there is but you never know, right? So what we did was um, it was important to the commission to uh, maintain that character that open Horseshoe for example, and so in the document you'll see that we looked at lock coverage keeping lock coverage to 60 percent And that way There's a limit to what can be developed. All right because the structures already take up some The other thing that we see as a potential future opportunity is multifamily housing So the campus district has some low impact. I'll call it my word Other uses, but we want this is incubators that type Yes, exactly. Okay, but um, not, you know, a lull mark We're trying to stay away from that, but we want to try to maintain that character We recognize that that's like a an important feature in the town So again, look at the use table in the back and look at the purpose statement I think that that will give you a good idea of where we're where I thinking was We never know if that that district could you know? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely My question is did the campus so the campus district is new? Yes. Yes There was there is currently a campus Overlay so this replaces the overlay It makes it clear that we're talking. It's not an overlay. It's the description of the district Got it. So I guess I will more point my question toward commercial industrial. Did it formally in our current zoning? Plans does it include multifamily housing commercial and industrial? No, not now Posing it Thank you for the addition really I really like that attention I think I think one of the I think one of the things that will be most helpful is to look at the use table in the appendix and carefully look at what are the Uses that are being proposed based upon the purpose statement of the district If you have the purpose statement and the use table You'll start to pretty quickly see where we were at and then the next step is looking at the Dimensional table to see how you are achieving adding those things or adjusting them or modifying Tom We had a conversation at some point about the design review district and modifying that to include a portion of the campus Is that done as part of these bylaws or is that a separate process? It's not done at the moment We just our meeting tonight was to go through the criteria our goal is to Include the design overlay. We're calling it the design overlay Not the downtown because it's downtown and mixed use and campus and campus excuse me Um, and we're going through the criteria for that right now And the outline of that is accurate data put that on the map That's what's outlined in the red and in the yellow is where the new design review district would be Although we You'll see in the key the current downtown design review has two sub districts. Yeah, but just just to point out We're not going to do two sub districts. Yeah, making it one There has been one, you know, I think that's a good point of Mary saying that has been one of our goals here Is to streamline things a little bit. I mean, it's a pretty massive document But we we have a few fewer districts But we're trying to cover what's the purpose of those districts One and the other way that Besides increasing housing density by the dimensional standards of a building or a A lot we we're also taking away the prohibitions on only one dwelling unit and an ad you what a property You know those kind of things so that and the focusing less on the use of a building and more of the Having that combined with the dimensional standards and the purpose of the district We've also promoted uh Housing along on route two, you know residential one area So we're hoping the lease on impetus puts an housing out there whether it happens or not I don't know but we've at least made that to the west of town or work Until you get I mean a lot of it's in flood plain so people are going to you know, but It's kind of like far for you Anyone else on the board have questions Oh, I was just I mean mine was also wrap up I was Thank you really appreciate it one that Uh, unless you want to go now I was going to ask the drb. Uh, harry shepherd, uh, if he had any particular questions harry Hi, good evening. I don't really have any questions. I know a few of us met with the planning commission a Few weeks back and I was kind of tuning in here this evening to just try to hear the progress so Uh, I did hear uh one thing that encouraged me a little bit is that there's uh some changes to the to the zoning lines particularly mixed use stuff and One of the things that uh, we were hoping for is possibly creating more opportunities for housing Long north main street in the northwest side of the roundabout And uh sounds like uh, the planning commission heard some of that and it made some of those changes. So that I think is positive The drb was really helpful to have come And give their I mean they're living it right right. They're the ones that are making the calls on the regs in front of them Yeah, I spent 10 years on the drb around that and I know You sit there and you try to step yourself through the regulations. So, um, where we can be more specific where we can get rid of Adjectives that are not helpful or definitive. You know, we've tried to do that as well Thank you. We appreciate it Uh, and elisa Can you just outline timeline in terms of that stuff? Oh Sure. Good question. So our and so you can all get it on your calendar time Our public hearings are february 20th and march 14th And then uh, we hope to I don't have the timeline you have the time I sent the timeline previously It hasn't changed much. We had to move the public hearings a little bit Uh, a little bit later, but our goal is still the end game is to get it to you folks April, right? But After march 14th, we'll have to take a little bit of input and clean up some things and then we're going to get it to you as soon as possible And then follow up on that I guess is just to say can you describe or kneel or I can try my best to where folks Yeah, we can find this info. Personally I go to the planning commission page on the water gradient website And then you have the unified development by law phase one in the side bar Yeah, I've been able to find the link to sc group there, but is there a better route? I should be going now No, that's it. And that's why I put the links. These are live links in your document So you can just click on it because I have the same problem Quite honestly, but the as data was saying the sc group materials are really from the fall So those are not the definitive It's just some visuals like billy said and things like that Well, and the storyboards are clicked. Um, you can click on this But um, they're not actually online the storyboards from the old Makes sense. Oh, yes. They are Anyway, the leaks I've checked but we've changed mixed use a lot. I know So that's why mixed use you're going to want this map. You have the hard copy in front of you That's your most valuable resource right now Holy and I guess I'm saying creatively kind of the defense of the public and everyone else I want to make sure we get these up for public consumption ahead of your year As soon as possible we're we're Looking like a week before which, you know, I wished it a little bit earlier, but they're busy too in the first public hearing Might not be people can come fully informed But hopefully they will come to be informed Well, wait, yeah We're going to hear right from the public. It's not for us to educate the public So we may not have it all I know but I want to be clear We're not going to be there to educate the public We're getting these resources out. We're getting communications out and it's a public hearing We're going to record Their comments and take that in take it back. What what do we need to change or if not change Yeah, and I think we appreciate the fact that we heard that story tonight, uh, you know King put some work out. We heard some things. She made some changes and They'll continue to be in her process through the two hearings coming forward And I'd also like to reiterate what Martha said about if you can come or tune in or watch later the public hearings because You're going to have a public hearing and you may get totally different people, but you know Hopefully want to respond to just The number that are there but have a fuller view of kind of what the community is saying All right Any other questions? Thank you so much Thank you guys Thank you all Yeah, thanks. Sorry. Appreciate it. Thanks Dana Next on the agenda we have the housing task force of jackpits Joe Thank you So as I've introduced myself two weeks ago. I'm Joe camarada from the housing task force A little different topic this time, but I wanted to Today Was the objectives that we are considering setting in the morning for the interview back As I mentioned when I was here last time the housing task force was formed last year and started being regularly around May or so. So in the first five months we Just kind of dove in to a set of activities if you would that we thought were important I kind of outlined those in the They were things like Trying to look at what data we had most of the data that we were working off of before was pre-pandemic Didn't necessarily reflect things like affordability, right? So we started to look at what data sources we could get how we could update those We did some extensive work with a document that was cut out by mainstream america And that had a really interesting process of that how do you go through what's called info development where you already have Some infrastructure to be able to find vacancies for other things and we start working our way So that document we spent a whole meeting talking about the 51 south range green and I put in that position statement that we drafted around around that and then of course we also did the recommendations for the But as we moved into Moving in 2024 we want it to be a little bit more strategic if you would in terms of what we were accomplishing And we laid out three objectives. But before I dive into those objectives. Are there any questions about 2023 It pleases me to know it I've tried to run this a few times without you and hasn't really worked So I'm glad I'm not alone here and failing to get that zoom and out to work great Ironically today it's the projector One question at the meeting where I was not there Recording in progress weeks ago You presented a chart of what other towns have done vis-a-vis short term housing And I was wondering if you have any updates on that or any particular objective as regard to short term housing going forward So no updates. I mean it was up to date as we presented it two weeks ago And it's a fluid situation as other towns select board for any conditions that they are doing that There is a actually there is the a lot short term rental agency meeting Or something like that, right? Association. Yeah, they actually do a really good job of giving an update as to what the towns are doing So, you know, there's a lot of information on that But no, I mean there was no update to that and you know, we really didn't put specific short term rental objectives into this year To our objectives for this year Because we felt As we said last time we felt that the short term rentals Weren't the primary cause we wanted to try to get down to How do you really improve housing capacity? We also felt that with the recommendation That a lot of the work that was going to have to go on because that was going to be handled by the town But again, if there is if there's other thoughts on that or there's things that you're looking for from The um, yes, of course, this is why we're here today Why don't we go through what your recommendations are and we'll see if there's any other questions So we set out the primary What I would call objectives the goals are I like to think of goals as being Your work is kind of high level, but objectives is being hopefully more concrete. You can measure at the end of the year Did you do it? They didn't do it. Okay, so the first thing that we're looking at doing was trying to Assess the potential for infill development to address our housing needs So we start looking at this a little bit like what how much housing do we think we're going to need in the next Say five years Okay, and then how much of that do we believe we can get out of the out of Infill development meaning development where we you know, we already have infrastructure And I think this is an important question to answer for the town because if we come back and we say Matt is going to be about 20 percent of your total housing needs They need to think about where you're going to get the other 80 percent of your housing needs But if on the other hand we come back and we said we think there's enough infill development that'll leave you 80 percent It changes a little bit of any calculus there. Okay, so we have been looking um Other towns have done these housing assessments Two that couldn't mind that I just read recently willis did one in london buried london dairy did one We can pretty much copy the approach they use But we'll try to use publicly. Well, we will use publicly available data. That's all we have We'll see how far we can get with being able to do that But I outlined the three questions that we want to ask how much housing will we need What will be the Targeting the median target income for that housing and then how much does that supply can we get from infill development? Is the first objective I have a question. Um, I think those are all very good questions The first one I'm a little more concerned about because there's so many variables involved We don't know if there's going to be recession. We don't know You know infill outfill, you know, there's so many variables to look at. So how do you really? Estimate what our need will be. I know it just it's a tough issue. Yeah, so there's a couple different ways. There's a really kind of Gross high-level way That the state talks about in terms of what are the expected vacancy rates for long-term And for housing On the market, right? And that's a really kind of back of the envelope calculation that we can do We kind of already done just to kind of say where we're all right. Where are we? Okay? That's not but that doesn't account for more the dynamics of Who wants to be here that aren't here? What's just we're going to see in the population The the london dairy housing assessment actually went a little bit more in detail into that They actually start looking at certain sub populations of people like how many workers Could be in town but aren't in town and how many seniors could be looking to move that So that's where we started to look at what was the approach that they used Can we use the public data sources to begin to for those populations get a better Get a better estimate because like if you look at five years Pre-pandemic pandemic changed everything. That's why I said, I mean we we might all be able to go a couple years Reliable right five years might be too much. You know, yeah I can also answer you a little bit vermont announced It's got to be a couple weeks ago now the state did that Are someone in the state announced that vermont is going to need somewhere between 40 to 50,000 housing units total I can tell you for waterberry, but that's one of the things that So we got to find somewhere in there. I'm very aware of of that study and it just it is a projection, but it's based upon, you know, just normalized growth growth models and Sometimes those growth models just aren't a current, you know, we had a pandemic But we don't know if we're going to see a spike in population. We don't know if we're going to see a Exodus of short vermonters was a taxation stuff like that Other questions for Joe on objective one So objective two started to look a little bit more at the process of Not just knowing the numbers, but kind of working through the mechanics If you would of what's it going to take in order to get that housing to happen And we did some thinking about if it's infill development Had what kind of opportunities do you have and we kind of broke it down into three you think about, you know Greenfield or or a brownfield development, you know, you have a vacant lot or you have an old unused building I mean you can think about reuse of an existing building and underline underutilized building and this is some of the You know coming back to looking at some of the things from the ministry program about, you know Vacant space that might be on top of existing build. I mean in the existing building that could be reused And then the third area is you could have accessory dwelling in this actually Is also very interesting given the new bylaws that we've just discussed and coming into into effect So we wanted to start it to work through some of those opportunities to understand what are the barriers? I mean we've we've had a lot of discussion about this We have a lot of anecdotes about it, right? But until you actually roll up your sleeves and start to work through the process yourself You're not going to really understand what the barriers are and that's what we were hoping to do is to say could we find the Opportunities of each of those categories start to work with with either a developer Or property owner to go through that process understand why it takes so long. Why is this so costly and then begin to Make some recommendations on how to As margaret said earlier how to streamline how to streamline those processes. So that was the the second objective One question on that is you know margaret her team Is presenting us with these proposed changes to zoning regs Does anything pop up based on What work you've done so far that would Be problematic Or I'd be familiar with you. No nothing that I think would be problematic. I mean we have attended the public sessions To understand them a little bit better. I do think the question and this is Mary Sits on our our task force and we asked and we asked the question Did you estimate how much additional housing we could have and they hadn't done yet? Also What would the process be how are we going to educate people so that they understand the changes to the bylaws and the opportunities and then How to go through that process them So there are things where under that last category might really come into play once the bylaws are in effect To begin to say how do we start to stimulate some momentum around them? Other questions on All right And the last was just looking at um, you know Working with some developers to understand the the incentives It kind of follows on from objective two won't be understand the barriers and why things are so hard We could talk about how to either make them easier or you know financially How do we create some incentives for people to come in and develop? Have you seen examples of objectives two and three sort of working or already in process in other towns? um, I think in so not But in the main street america guy jets they go They do a really nice job of going through how do you identify? those opportunities And then how do you market the opportunities to developers and then begin to engage them in terms of You know Following through getting necessary permits and all about right that's kind of the essence of what that document does I think is a fairly good document and they've done it had a lot of you know Designated downtown your main street america across the country didn't even get a piece they'll say is there are communities that have skin in the game We take an organization like down street They're getting a lot cheap the town is giving them a hundred thousand dollars But they essentially have no mechanism to recover their redevelopment costs that always comes through at the end so some communities Take it won't take a fairly active financing role in some of those projects The town supplies the redevelopment costs In some cases they pay for it in some cases the towns will pay for certain infrastructure improvements to the site that sort of thing like most of what you what most of what you're proposing are structural changes things that we could do for analyzing the supply and what we can do Have you looked at anything from either public or private moneys to aid in development of sites for You know for Not specifically enough Um, I mean not beyond what state programs there are right, but we haven't thought through how we would apply those state programs Well, that's kind of where i'm looking at is How they you know, I know we're probably not going to Locally have a fund but cap it to some other funds that are exist throughout the state And maybe have a sub fund for water very to potentially develop projects We can definitely we get a Definitely itemize which ones exist and how they could be used Also, we'll just respond to my I feel like one piece also had to do with that how much and what type As you well know, there's very different financing for a moldy family and single family and different things like that So I feel like one of the kind of going in circles We did as a task force was saying like well We would like to incentivize these things but until you know what you want to be incentivizing So for this first objective around some data gathering and assessment that was certainly one of the The reason three is three around what the incentives are is kind of like getting a landscape and then what's in an incentive to further that The only reason I mentioned that is sometimes these some of these funds dry up and getting a You know looking into the future getting some sort of you know reservation of a funding Because they may not be there in five years Um last year the tuesday watcher with king the board proposal for a registry or to look into the feasibility of creating a registry for Rental housing both short term and long term um, and i'm just wondering where we are on that and What extent would the information gained from that help move towards the objectives of the housing task force We're not far on the registry. I think we'll have something for you In about a month probably just after town meeting day hope to be A little further on it, but something came up last week as we can have I heard about that A lot of several several towns to look at in terms of the deadline registry Something I can send along to and I hope it was recorded Stowe had a very lively meeting That would be related to exactly that so that means like full for us to look at that and anticipate some of those concerns right and Joe, do you have Position on that as to What type of information that would provide to the task force? How needed that is for you do we put it into the recommendation? What type of information we would like to see collected from the task force perspective, right? and Maybe the best Example is you know can and I had an exchange of emails about the armory project before the new armory project Right when we said look this land might be available, right? What kind of housing would you put there and I basically said why would like to put in there? You know the kind of housing that we're losing the short-term rentals and he said what is that? I said I don't know right and that's the kind of essence of where we are We just don't know what housing we're losing the short-term rental So we don't know and we have opportunities to put more housing in what to put in That's to a list of points. That's part of why we're trying to do objective one to understand that But you know the short-term rental that kind of registry would be able we would know You know the impact is having on the housing stock what we need to replace Yeah, I mean you had some what looked to be a fairly specific Detailed data already like 162 short-term rentals In and out. That's a pretty specific number. We don't know Where they are or you know what type of housing it is or what Okay All right, other questions Chris Hey, Joe, I had a friend of mine there. We were talking about affordable housing there the other day I was listening to a program on dv. They had a guy from the state Dealing with and looking at the changes in act 250 And how that might help with affordable This this definition of affordable housing Um if he was talking about areas right now that Developers are going in and they're in these nine lot towns That they can go in And build a nine lot complex without having to go back to act 250 They're thinking about changing some of those rules instead of being able to do nine units. You can do 30 units And The conversation went on and I I'm not sure how that and he talked about well being able to do 30 units you can buy Larger quantities of materials and get a discount on it. You know, I've been in that business For a long time. I don't see how that's going to move the needle a whole hell of a lot It's one thing to acquire Housing And from what I'm understanding and maybe I'm wrong Thinking that you guys are talking about multi-unit housing that kind of what you're focusing on because that's probably Get a bigger bank for your buck in those types of structures Yeah, but we do go on the task force. We have some members who are looking to move from rentals up to a single Founding unit, which also So that's part of what we're trying to assess right now. Chris is what is that? Rw the rw study Made a clear recommendation. I was around I think one two bedroom apartments, right? No big house, but there was no numbers around that, you know So what I guess the thing about it? I mean tom kind of got my blood boiling when he was saying that the taxpayers And I may you may be talking about maybe like a tiff Program or something like that perhaps that where eventually that comes back to the Taxpayers in a sense, right? So my concern is it's all fine to create the housing. What's the support mechanism after that? How do those buildings Be maintained and who pays the taxes where the where does money come from that? You know if if there's subsidized money coming into this where's that coming from? And Who does that impact because it's you know, it's all our dollar in the end So there's a lot of questions as to you know, what what creates affordable housing In the definition of affordable And I don't even think we're strictly focused on that definition of affordable that was why on here We basic our second A point when objective one was what are the acceptable median income targets for the potential owners? That's what I don't think we have a good handle on that and I do think christia, right This is where we're going to come into the you know, if you want me to build nine minutes because you want them at this price Can happen, you know, so then what do we do? We incentivize that or some way or do we think about how to get the cost down? But I do we do need to have I think at least a clear idea Around what those target income levels are they're trying to address We don't have that right now Good any other questions any questions online speak up. I can't see any hands Okay, uh, do we have a motion on here? Appreciate roger. Thank you. Sure. Go ahead Len did you have a question? No, I'm just letting you know there's no questions here, but thanks for checking in. I appreciate that Yeah Okay, uh, do we have a motion to approve the recommended task force objectives? I make a motion to approve the borderbury housing task force project task force 2024 recommended objectives I'll take this moment to just shamelessly thank joe for all of his work as the chair of the task force I will say to someone who's really excited about this task force and did not have the capacity to regularly staff it Joe comes to every meeting with a multi powerpoint slide I was reading He's read the london berry housing needs assessment in his spare time should you hear comparison these words, but just It's volunteer time and you bring a lot to the community and just I think everyone should know how much work Moving the task force forward Okay, let's job The motion has moved and segmented. Uh, all the members say aye. Aye. Any opposed any objections? Thank you job And the rest of the battle Okay, next up we have school use uh as a fully location Do we have some background information from uh town editor? Well, you had to find a town court actually So there's a lot of content here to read Brief background last march march of 2020 Well, first of all for those of you that were here last year. Mr. Lipsetter came and spoke to us and I brought it up then that the November 2022 general election at the school was Hostile and really uncomfortable the school didn't want us there The public didn't want excuse me the staff didn't want the public there. It was it was just a really, um terrible experience and Mr. Lipsetter has sent me an email in march of 2023 just confirming that I didn't need the school for general election This past november, which I didn't it led me to think Everything was going to be fine. He's checking in. He's making sure the calendar reflects the general election And we had that conversation with him. We had it here. Yes. Um And then in january Um, the wadesfield town clerk put out some information that she'd been approached by This her school board representative, you know to find a different place to hold her elections and general election november for the I'm not sure the specifics of the inquiry roger basically not in the school um, right now The chatter about town meeting day is just hearsay. I think I haven't The focus seems to be on the november general election because that's when schools in service Yeah, school's out It is but it's out because of an extended vacation, right? They specifically make their calendar reflect their february break lasting through town meeting day Um, so not to derail the conversation. My biggest concern right now is the november Um, presidential election that's coming up Partially because one of our staff members is on the school board and is able to feed me a little bit of information I've come to find out that there's a new policy that has just been introduced to the school board That would change their their use facilities draft community use of school's facilities policy So there's a lot of language in here that's concerning to me number three on page two It says the superintendent can deny an application for use of facilities or terminate an individual or groups used for the following reasons Use that are likely to cause material and substantial disruption to school operations Obviously a Any kind of election after secondary school is a disruption to them because the school's not closed in november And he makes that quick clear in his emails that he I think uses is exactly that Part b of that same thing. I believe that an election is sponsored by both major political parties Yeah, I'm I'm I'm feeling I've written an email to the four members of the waterbury school board I wrote that email on thursday. It's in it's in the staple packet. I think somewhere near the back Although I can't find it. Um, I've not heard a response yet from any of them not even a thank you For sending this email to me So I don't I guess it's an awareness for all of you that I may be Um pushed out of using bookside primary school I'm not alone Wadesfield and warren both hold their elections at school Um, and it's common practice throughout the state many places Yes, bill. Yeah, this is an issue that we dealt with the last time One of the pushbacks that I'm hearing through the grapevine is that well, you know The elections are on Tuesdays usually and it's an it's an odd day of the week Um, well, it's too disruptive to parents to have A tuesday off, you know, we like to you know, because we've suggested you have an in-service training Take all the teachers to to harrow it Do an in-service training and let the schools that have the elections have elections Well, we like to have our in-service trainings on monday to friday, so I don't know and it's it's They're saying it's too disruptive to to schedule a lot of tuesday I guess it's in the u.s. Constitution election day So, you know, we don't have a lot of we can't we don't have a lot of we're talking about once every Two years, right even numbered years and and all this disruption that they're concerned about You know, if there's Three inches of snow with a little glaze of ice tomorrow. They're gonna cancel school at 7 15 In the morning and the parents have to deal with that in the immediate right now So if it's on the calendar, you know at the beginning of the school year, I think parents can figure it out So if there's anything that we can do we don't we don't really have another place To have an election. How many are in the checklist 4,000 there's 43 The day I wrote this email there was 43 173 voters on our check. So anyway, that's just my point. Thank you. Thanks. I just want to clarify I think I'm kind of I'm hearing almost two separate things. I want to clarify. So it sounds like Because I did read most of this one was a request to not have school Right to make it an in-service and the school or the Sorry, the superintendent wants to have school, right? He doesn't want to cancel school Just from what I read in the email Yes, just to simplify it. Okay. He has a list of reasons why yeah, yeah, I did read it So he doesn't seem concerned that it's a disruption But then the other argument is that we're worried not arguing but the other Concern is that we're worried that he is then going to say it's a disruption and then Not approve election day at the school. That's the concern I'm concerned Danny because this All of a sudden this agenda item popped up just now just as the conversation with him in three town clerks To change the school use policy. Okay. I believe the policy is on their next agenda It is on their next agenda. Yeah So it adopted it essentially because of that authority I mean he essentially has that authority now as far as I can tell but it just solidifies his authority to And and in the school board meet if you go and watch the school board meeting Um, one of our representatives said so, you know, basically number four gives you permission to tell them They can't have elections in the school Excuse me number three Just this email makes it sound like he's like very pro I agree and then and then you can watch that school board meeting and hear him tell you the common calendars prohibitive Midweek in service day is prohibitive Towns are moving away from using schools. So why can't these three towns move away from it? I even heard there's not a lot of parking Which I feel like there's ample parking at Brookside primary school I don't know why he made that remark Way more than a year I talked to the secretary of state's office today Will's sending coffee, which is fantastic Just had a brief conversation with him. There's nothing he recommends that we're not already doing So he recommended reaching out to Vermont school board association. Liz is doing that He recommended the board of education. Liz is doing that. He recommended I email the school board. I've done that The only thing I haven't done is sat down with my glitch letter and had a conversation And I'm reluctant to do that because I feel very I feel like he holds all the cards Other than begging him to let me have it there. I don't really know what more I can say that I haven't said already So if there's an email that can be drafted or letter that can be written to Inviting in to have a conversation about this Wednesday? I'm not certain of that actually even though Mike probably told me I'm not 100 percent certain. Does Lisa know? I was gonna say is this that one rare occasion where we need to meet with our select or with our school board delegates Over an issue that requires both of our attention You can invite them and they respond Disappointed that I didn't even get a thank you so much. I'll look into this for you I'm just my response might be that You could certainly talk with our people represents, but I also think talking directly with the superintendent might promote Coming together to try to solve the common problem I say this as a individual not as a select board member The building is a public building Elections are an institution There are limited places in this and many other communities to have elections I think as bill cheplook said they'll close the school for three inches of snow But they can't stay open for for an election. I I see something wrong with that problem I don't I know I will be glad to attend that meeting As well voice my opinion on that because I think You know if it's disruptive for school fine Close close the school for the day, you know There are so many days that they have snow days take take one snow day away And I I just think it should be it's a place it's elections to me. I hold very sacred and it's very important that We have places to have I understand their safety issues safe elections if they want to close the school if they think it's going to be a big issue I'm just thinking about what our next action steps are in terms of it does appear. This is a little second time sensitive Karen it sounds like you feel like you've done everything you've reached out to these folks in terms of next steps You know, obviously we can reach out as individual members and select board members to the reps I am just going to say out loud No one filed petitions to run for school board for our town for next year And I do have to say like because it's a thankless job because we're all sitting here doing this And I just feel like I need to say that out loud because If no one wins and if we all really have a problem there Two people can run writing campaigns to be Waterbury school board representatives. So I wish they responded to I have certainly not responded to every email I've ever gotten as a slide board member But what do we think is most effective in terms of You know, again, if this is for consideration Wednesday, I guess I personally am trying to weigh the adversarial versus not adversarial approaches And kind of how what we as a board do are we writing a collective letter? Are we meeting with reps? Are we going to the meeting Wednesday all of the above? But You know, it feels like there is We're looking ahead to November. Um, we obviously have to hug meeting more imminently. There's this policy But but what are our action steps? I think Karen's email That she sent to our school board members was partly written And if you agree with that email, you can endorse the sent endorse the statement And and then that's your official position on the matter And Karen will then in for the communication Karen myself will have That endorsement behind it the support of the slide board The meeting next Wednesday the 14th The meeting next Wednesday to the best of my knowledge is to consider the policy change I I have not been informed yet what the calendar looks like. I haven't officially been told That I can't use the school Because they haven't finalized their calendar, right? And that's what I want to be careful of so No one in his emails except for parents and people in our side to for lack of a better word has said it's disrupted So we have said that but clown perks have said that parents have said that the school has not said that so before we Attack the school for calling it disrupted. Let's remember that that's not in here They may have verbally in other places, but they have it here. So before we knee jerk react to that They also didn't say they can't do it. So in our writing and requests Let's remember that let's remember to react to what actually happened and then ask for what we need as a town for our people and Continue the best type of relationship we can because We could create a problem where there isn't one and I don't want us to do that because that's going to make your job a lot Yeah, it it occurs to me, you know as I head into this now that the secretary state's office mails ballots Yes, there's 4300 voters on the checklist. Yes, 3500 of them voted in the last General election But now ballots are being mailed. So there the possibility exists that over time The capacity is lower and lower. Like I don't need such a big space But imagine me running a general election in this room because that's what I'm going to have to do I need a da accessibility I there's certain things I have to have and I can't just go find that somewhere So this is the spot if I can't use the school. So for me, I appreciate Danny what you're saying I mean more for us and or the public listening when we reach out. Let's make it Let's help you and not hurt you Well, I want to help myself too. I'm I feel like I Did communicate with mr. Litchlett or in advance Um, I was shocked when this came up again. I said no conversation had ever taken place Anyway, um, I appreciate what you're saying, but this is the space ladies and gentlemen if I can't use the school Because I don't have another spot that I can use Yeah, a couple questions and maybe a comment Did the superintendent come up with this or is the school board that Basically put the statement out Um, there's no I don't believe there's a statement chris. There's a sort of I'm just reporting the proposed policy the proposed policy. Um, the superintendent asked the crosswalk committee Which is a group of individuals on the school board that review policies Specifically asked them to review that policy You know, we asked a lot of our school systems, but it's what we ask of them is also compensated for To have a one-year election in a facility that We've used for how many decades now Maybe the legislators ought to be contacted to perhaps try to get thumpin through this state house to Cast that in stone Right, hence the outreach to the All of our impacts that we put into the school systems to request one day a year For an election facility. I don't think it's too much to ask It's you know, it makes me sick to my stomach to hear that because it's just To me it's another sign of the Vermont that I used to know just kind of slowly disappearing and it's it's saddening I hope I hope we can work this thing out This is Lisa Walton. Can I say something please? Sure I um, I couldn't hear all of what chris was saying, but um I am really surprised to hear that the superintendent of our school would be suggesting for even a moment that the uh community members would not be welcome to Use the school for The purpose of voting Um, I know that everyone probably in that room would be surprised if that's truly the case Hopefully there's been some sort of miscommunication here But I would hope that if in fact this is the direction that the superintendent is leaning That the school board as I'm sorry the select board as a whole as well as a town manager Would in no uncertain terms write a letter or make a statement that says that they you know Absolutely are opposed to Not being allowed to use the school for this purpose. Um, I don't think this should even be a question And it would shock me if if we didn't do something that That showed that the select board stands with the um townspeople of waterbury On something like this. So again, I understand what um was said about Are not wanting to jump to unnecessary conclusions and causing a problem before there is one But I think Karen is very wise in trying to address this before it becomes a problem and make sure that You know our rights as citizens are protected here Excuse me, I didn't get to finish but so my last thing was going to be You know, maybe we could put some thought or try to figure out if we did Not if we weren't able to use it. What alternatives do we have? Of course before it's too late and if anybody can pull that rabbit out of their hat Well, there are some other halls here the armor you found Yeah What they're super intended Portrays in his memo Talks about violence and stuff like that And I know he's talking about many of the school shootings Any of these school shootings and stuff like that could happen any day of the school year not necessarily in an election Day And I just think it's so, you know, what do we want to do shut shut the schools down to have a secure fortress there? I just You know If if we need to have You know if they want to have um the sheriff Be at the be at the premises. I don't I have no problem with that because if they feel uncomfortable But I I'm kind of like where our ex-counter manager bill Shepp look, you know They could move the in service day. It just sounds like an inconvenience for them to move move there in service day And I just I'm just appalled So I think the questions are the table So per tom's point we can endorse karen's thing karen is asking for two things One the use of the school and two the students not being in the school when we use the school And I think we have like those two separate issues. I don't think that requests have been formally made but this Email is potentially right saying there's a question It's just saying that there's concerns. I just want to be clear about what has or hasn't been proposed And then there's a draft policy for next wednesday So for each of those What's our response? Do we want to endorse karen's email? Which is I do karen's emails saying That she is one would like to use bookside primary school for the location this november and two She would like to use it when there is not school in session I I having students in the school I do think that the safest Course of action is to not have And I'm just saying in endorsing your policy we're we're agreed with those points We're saying that one we would really love to have it at the school where we've had it for many years And two we think that doing that successfully based on past experience and community feedback we and you received Needs to be done without school. So those are our two asks We're willing to take a without b because I worried about if they're Not willing to do it in service day for whatever reason You know Do then we say fine. We're not doing it there kids are there or we just need to do it there And we'll deal with the student piece at a longer term. Or are you thinking like If if they won't do in service or whatever then we don't want to do with their period It's a great question. Yeah Like I said, I have kids at that school. Yeah for the safety of the kids For the safety of the community, it would be great if they could schedule an in-service day I watched the video of the school board meeting I heard him say that one of the biggest challenges was what we called the common calendar I called the superintendent of the central vermont career center, which was the calendar he was referring to she confirmed for me that The central vermont career center will not be closed on November 5th And it is not reflected to be closed on the school calendar So he has he can deviate from that calendar by four days So there is I suppose still the slight glimmer of hope that you will decide to take one of those four days and apply it to November 5th But how I don't know how long that's going to sustain. I guess in hindsight, I should have Absolutely emailed him and asked him. Did you give me November 5th off from school? But it seems like all the all the everything I'm seeing is pointing towards that not being the reality So An awareness, I guess, but what do I know about school coming calendars? Is they're very very strict. You'll notice if there's A snow day is always district-wide even though districts are large and it might not impact cold areas It's part of their core belief is to maintain that calendar Okay I just wanted to comment on a comment that was made um I remember the public about americans rights being taken away um the school superintendent by Sending this email is not threatening to take away your rights as an american. We still have options to vote in places It just might not be the school You know, uh, it might be here. It would be really inconvenient to hold a general election in this room. It's very small Um But no, we are not our Constitutional rights are not under threat because the school doesn't want to host the general election So to follow up as individuals We can write to both the superintendent and the school board members representing select boards and ourselves as individuals and members of public using To officially endorse requests We can shout At the meeting on wednesday next week if we're available to do so to listen and ask questions and voice opinions And just I wouldn't emphasize in this meeting he says like it requires more conversation and exploration And he's open to a meeting with the clerk. So again for the like Yeah, but the but the men the policy came after that the drug policy, right? So we just want to be As much a part of that policy conversation as possible Well, our our time manager has suggested one force faction as far as to endorse the letter that our town clerk has written I think it's Not inflammatory in any particular way I don't have a motion I think the motion that the select board endorses The town clerk's letter to the stupor detective Second Moving second to any further discussion All of their say aye Any opposed any extensions Okay, this letter is endorsed and Can be sent with the select boards endorsement And Perhaps we can determine Who amongst us might be available to go address the school board next Wednesday My wife's just gonna love me going there on Well, I don't think we can report to have more than uh two of us there. So Yeah, I don't Prop the Sounds like a great date Um, yeah, I wouldn't mind going Trying to pursue an address in a way that's not uh, necessarily kept productive I would like I'll take my wife Yeah, you know I will watch the recording I will be a heat book More fun You're going to them on Wednesday Well, first of my life doesn't care about homework I know first we brought a little last night on the dinner or maybe next class Latina by up. Oh, yes What's right here? No, you don't have any You don't have any Last minute came in Danny carpenter and tasha green in the address is of course, it's never on page one 1930 us route two, which is route two On the right just before jenny davis one of the last houses Um flooded flooded pretty badly both times It's livable. I understand the owner's in it. Um, but Sick and tired of being flooded the interesting It's a standard buyout process from our perspective at the swipe or to cruise it The interesting component about this one would come out later is it is double wide and it can be moved And that may be a possibility No need to demolish it for some so perhaps she can Get some buyout funds and find a lot elsewhere I mean that said the best solution roll and moved to higher ground So she's not 100 committed to it, but she's interested in exploring the option and So the buyout would just be the way of condemning property By buying a lot from our perspective in the end of the same same process we don't land Mm-hmm A lot of pocket parks here. I need to make a few measures. I can uh, no, right, sir. All right, uh My own motion Second Any further discussion Any opposed All right, we can all Yeah And just say time it wasn't jean, I would like I guess I would just like say we've had you know The small smattering of these in places that are flooding so it seems like it's in the town's best interest Is there a threshold? Where we're concerned Yeah, it says it on the top You may have a couple more Yeah, I guess that was my point just around threshold of concern. I mean to be clear I think that these are perpetually flooding properties. We shouldn't be concentrating further development there and if folks want to do this we should support them You know, I know in other communities just because of number they're much more concerned about it Yeah I'd obviously like to see a few more um That one honor talking with myself and the state emergency management person about an elevation In general the roles related to elevations don't work unless it's a pretty high value property Yeah, and likely without the honor having some personal investment too I really would like to see two or three more by health properties. Yeah, I'm not sure they'll come to fruition And if this is the state still covering the 25 percent match as in that thus far I have not heard about any by any group in any community session So I think they're picking and choosing rather carefully All right, mom just this there's only room for two signatures here. Yeah, just keep going Yeah All right last time when the agenda is next meeting which will be monday the 19th of february that is a federal holiday Lincoln's the 12th I don't know There'll be too many That's why they just never Unless there's a Particularly concerned. I think money nights work for most of us and other nights are problematic So, uh, I'd like to just keep it on the holiday. It's not a holiday for the uh for the town There uh and the agenda very short was All right So, um We have the the usual first three and then uh an update on the armory building. Um Any particular new information that we expected them Yes, if nothing else our official position if you will on the issue You may have some additional information from Other communities that have similar shelters and some some shelter operators to Talk about the community impact and what we need to prepare because in fact it comes to fruition Are we having the meeting here though? Yeah, I wonder what do you expect obviously needed the uh larger room, uh, school gymnasium If you've got some ballers off, um, I don't know certainly did attract a lot of attention Last time I don't necessarily expect everyone to want to come back and uh here Express the same things that they've already expressed or here. Maybe some of the same information, but uh, we will have new information Maybe it would make sense to Back to the uh firehouse if they'll have us I think it's smart. Yeah I don't want to be the fine moment of like or should it be here and should we pay for a large new meeting room for you Right that the the I just felt that both for Karen and for folks online with that And I know it was out of everyone's control, but before we immediately go back there. That is my hesitation I didn't because people might just want they don't necessarily feel like they need to stand up But they really want to be here for the update And if we could increase the capacity Was it solely the fire department the issue for the co-optivity for zoom I think it was just overused me. I think it's just I think we'll have the same problem Anywhere if we have that many bodies on it. That's why I listed but there are zooms that come Yeah, so there's two mechanics you can pay for we do at work because we do On wide community meetings you can pay for a large meeting. You do have to pay for it So so we hit the capacity last time which was one phase of zoom confusion And then folks who stayed on till the end what there were six of them I think had disconnected eight times by the end which are sure was challenging So If I can speak to it, I don't feel confident about the internet connection at either building. Yeah, so Whether you pay for more capacity on zoom or not. I think we run the same risk I think we run I mean The internet went out here tonight and there was 10 people on and it and it shut down and recycled so After the after the meeting I talked to pop over does our IT work and I said let's let's figure out Fiber options for this building which we don't have right now. I I'm assuming there's a trunk line down main street Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully I'm not wrong, but it'd be nice to get fiber both buildings and then these connectivity issues are Gone because the size of our pipe is you know, that was the next bigger. So well in if we don't have Much guarantee of a reliable Zoom connection of them, uh, maybe asking Gary if we can go back to the firehouse would make most of this If they put an epic projector Yeah, I don't know. Hopefully the next two weeks is the I don't know Can we consult with Bob Butler to see if you know some sort of technology issues you can help us with Uh, we can but these are but this is two weeks away So well, maybe it's an easy fix Do you think Tom we'd have any updates on the state's surveying of the Stanley Watson site? Um, I can give you that Yes, and no, um, I'm expecting them to Give us a draft purchase and sale pretty soon They updated and completed their survey. They have to go before our dov to amend their site plan as part of that too, so Unfortunately a little bit of a process in the end And I think that the state I think that also requires a many interactive So provision is development. Yeah So it all takes a little longer then You hope it takes All right, well, I just thought you know two weeks away. I thought maybe they'd have moved an inch Do we uh have consensus that we're going to ask garrick to move to the uh to the buy house for meeting on negi Yeah, and what I'll look into and I think we can accomplish by then we can check it out in the next few days Is maybe just a basic PA system. Yeah Which would have been nice, I think Yeah, it was difficult to project to them for a hundred plus I can definitely bring you ahead a speaker cab and a microphone. Well, we had those things gary had a gary had a microphone and a Like a portable wi-fi speaker. I couldn't connect to the speaker. I couldn't connect zoom to the speaker The microphone connected to the speaker However, when we tested it the room was empty and it just echoed And it just felt totally completely overwhelming now in hindsight A hundred people in the room probably would have dampened the blow But gary does have those items available at the fire station for our use and it was a decision that we made not to use them because of the reverberation so It's not necessary to buy them or bring them or even Secure them there. They're right there. And maybe we should encourage people to attend in person because that might Limit the internet connections and may help things You know, I'll plug into the wall this time. So I won't run on wi-fi. I'll I'll bring an ethernet and plug into the wall. We'll go down and test ahead of time I'll do everything I can to avoid the same issue. Oh, we know you'll do the right thing But um, but and if I felt like being here yeah, no hurt by me that security I'd say let's stay home. It's comfy and warm But I feel like the same exact thing could happen Um, especially with increased capacity, so Kane and then Chris um a recommendation for Next meeting is that I don't sound like an idiot here, but the traffic for the eclipse is going to be jaw dropping if numbers are correct I think we just You know skeleton of a plan For if people get locked in or locked out Especially employees of local businesses. I know she said phone it in But uh, I can't really phone in my spatula I think those conversations tell her happening though I think they're pretty actively happening and rw is leading a lot of that Maybe your point is well taken about the downtown parking and run for employees Yeah Getting involved with specifically in conversation, but I think that's a good point. We can incorporate into things If we do that, we might want to have katarina here because she's working a lot with katarina You know the eclipse plans Well, she maybe done, you know, uh, tom was working directly with katarina as well So I can decide whether she needs to be here or you can just represent uh chris Yeah, so it's a it is a clear understanding that there's no pathway out of this, uh, armory issue So I wouldn't say that, um A lot of people have been asking me I mean they the commissioner showed up to the meeting I think that meant something that he was there personally and not an underling and he didn't Have to do that. I didn't think I thought it was a good move, but he didn't have to Our position is they still need to go before the drb for a change of use permit for the building um All of our Bylaws don't apply because it's a state facility and nerds them from some of them But some of them still do apply and I think there's going to be some legitimate questions asked by the drb They want to get that done. They prefer they better get their permanent application soon because there's a process to advertising those meetings And they've essentially missed february already So they can't they can't strong them on their way through this Permits are permit. They need a permit like anyone else um And then there's a series i'm working on Some formalized questions about what we can ask them and That's a pretty long list. Um, I spent most of the day talking with people who are in this business Um to try to get some expert advice on on what questions we should ask and what impacts we should anticipate Um So i'm working on that. That's really all I did today trying to have that done For internal review as soon as I can and some of those folks who are in this business are going to work on it with me to give me some help I recognize i'm not an expert in Homeless facilities and how they may or may not impact communities And I think then we'll we'll take it from there, but i'm Part of what i'm hopeful is you know, the state has a very long relationship with water very and You know in a lot of ways I think You can think of water very as as a town with a you know an old an old school town with a big factory And and the and the factory serve the town's people well. There are a lot of jobs over the years And and we still have that to some extent and that's a good thing to have and I think also the state views us as a pretty willing partner um So I think if they go forward with the proposal and don't work with us And there's a negative community impact I think it's going to make it hard for them to work with us in the future. Um, so i'm hoping that they'll Be cognizant of that long-term relationship the fact that they've got such a built presence here and and understand our concerns and Most of what i'm learning is The state has a set of guidelines for homeless shelter operators But those guidelines for the most part say It's on the operator to develop the actual policies of procedures. And so I read those by the one incident and i'm trying to figure out um If we can get a seat at the table to talking with an operator to make sure we understand what their procedures are and so we know Okay, the state rules say there's a process for in essence Evicting someone from a homeless shelter And there's and and that's a requirement and there's also an appeals process But i'm curious what happens if someone is evicted And and april can be bad weather so I want to make sure that person is safe and I want to make sure that there's a process for for all of this And so it's understanding all these things at a pretty detailed level And I fully admit i'm not an expert on these guidelines. So i'm reading these things for the first time So i'm i'm trying to make sure that um, I understand this fully I can bring that knowledge to the select board in the community and and we can go from there And i'll also say a lot of everything i'm hearing from communities that have homeless shelters Are that homeless shelters with strong operators with strong guidelines? um Don't impact public services of the community in a negative way But i'm also learning that those shelters tend to be quite a bit smaller than what's proposed for waterbury as of today The the normal number seems to be 15 to 20 There's no absolute number. There's bigger. There's smaller And even the shelter operators i've talked with that said i've talked a lot about homeless shelters have evolved a lot in the last few years I talked to a shelter operator today Who said that for years their their shelter was closed during the day And then that was that worked for the community and That simply doesn't work anymore So they're now a 24 7 operator and and it doesn't work because the individuals that were in their shelter are increasingly impacting public places like libraries and not always a positive way and so The shelter operator and the guidelines they use Are what it mostly boils down to and so I think if we can have a seat at that table I think we can be in pretty good standing um And I also feel like and i'll be quite frank um April 1 is really tough It's it's a struggle for me to see them pulling that off. Maybe they can um And it's also a struggle for me to see them investing in that building and only doing it for 90 days to me that doesn't Doesn't add up You know the the number I don't know if this is true the number I've heard By three people in the business would say From their conversation with state officials is two million dollars that they're planning and putting into building I have no idea that's true That's just what I've heard so I don't want to perpetuate it too much But if you take two million and divide by 40 beds and divide by that 140 dollars a night they're spending now It's a year to recover that investment Theresa made that point Theresa made that exact point. Um, not knowing the exact numbers, but um Even if the investment was half of that um 90 days isn't a lot of time to recover it and um, Bill Woodruff was out there a couple weeks ago talking to the construction manager who was working out plans for a spring core system um It's a big building um putting a spring core system in a building when you've got web based pain issues and asbestos issues to work around Doesn't strike me as free. It strikes me as a fairly expensive six-figure proposition. So It's also got, you know, the showers or gang style military showers I'm imagining they're going to do some renovations to the bathroom to make them a bit more private never mind the rest of it So it I understand that every every unit they would build would have power Um, even if it's plywood and two by fours That's all fair amount of time and money if you're talking 40 units building those bringing power to them um So, I I'm going to call time on this. This is not on the agenda for tonight. This is for the next meeting Yeah, no, no, i'm chris. I'm saying With the fire station So there's a lot of people that have told me that they would have gone to that meeting if they'd known about it So now they do know about it. So I just want you to be prepared for a whole house the next time Yeah That was the reason we did not put it on the agenda tonight was that a lot of people have questions very reasonable questions We don't have a lot of answers quite yet. Tom's got more than many of us do but we're going to be addressing it on the 19th Well, we've got two things here. We've got the 10 year budget. Maybe that's going to be We've got the good fire hearing and then There's a proposal that Crew organize a flood fair I don't know if they've got a date yet, but if they have More information I'm just gonna be honest. I'm gonna vote. We pushed 10 year budget plan I just we have animal control ordinance that we had on the agenda that we took off. We had noise and other I'm not I'll do it. I want to do it. I think we should do it But I think doing it for the 19th Especially when tom has so many other things on his plate. It's not realistic And I think we're gonna need more update on the honorary time. I don't think that's Well, these are just We should put it in the parking lot. I want to do it, but I don't think Okay, so, um, we do need to put the animal control ordinance back on the agenda Well, I mean that was a tom thing too. So I don't I can have that in two weeks I'm not saying it's my like it's low on my list of priorities, but it was Do we want to take this meeting where we're talking? We're spending probably more than an hour on the arm here armory again to uh, do we want to open with the parking ordinance? Oh, yeah, definitely Yeah That also has to do with the also I will say room you should mark your calendar for bold dates could be just heard that the Plan admission is the two study is their public care, right the 20th of mark that was grown so I may have lost track I have good fire crew flood fare and eclipse parking on the agenda and I have a 10-year budget plan in the parking lot by moving the animal ordinance to Agenda Keep in the parking lot. Yeah, I prefer that. Yeah, that's So leave them. We're not going to be in a good mental headspace Or depending on the level of public comment Who's going to be? And anything else comes up, but you can let me know All right All right I move to adjourn Second and all of them say I