 Hello and a warm welcome to Burlington's Stump the Chumps trivia program on the 16th day of July 2021. Having survived a year of COVID-19, we're here live in the Channel 17 studio. And who are we? I am today's host Bill Cale, a former politician and baseball umpire and Dave Hartnett, a former politician and a umpire and Al Sharon. Al is a baseball enthusiast with a mental library of Burlington trivia. Dave, did you have more fun as a city counselor or as an umpire? Oh no, definitely as an umpire. Definitely as an umpire, but it helped me become a better city council. Really? Absolutely. I always used to say, you know, I just, I look at everything objectively, I do the best I can, and I'll be fair about every decision, and a lot of things that I used on the baseball field, I actually used at the council. When I was making decisions, listening to everybody, you know, just kind of, you know, you know, putting all your thoughts together. And so I thought that was actually good training for me to be an umpire first. Talk about that sometimes, I agree. Al, who is your favorite athlete or baseball athlete? Well, I think the person that influenced me the most was Ori J. Ori J? He's my coach in high school, yeah. And plus my cousin Lou, who taught me how to catch a baseball. Okay, well we're talking baseball today. Baseball was a big social glue in the late 30s and early 40s. People didn't have much money in those days, so they liked baseball. Baseball was a good outlet for all their frustrations and all the tough times they had in the poverty days of the Great Depression and then thereafter. So baseball was everywhere. Burlington, to this day, we have the lake monsters, but we had the Burlington Cardinals and a number of other baseball teams. It's part of Burlington life as it is today. Now, but back in the day, we had things that you've never read about, never heard about until you're going to see you right here. Okay guys, how did you choose, your mother kicked you out the door and said, go play. So then you got a couple guys and a bat and what went on from there? Well, everybody in the neighborhood would show up about the same time, whether it would be at Shemansky Park or Roosevelt Park or Smalley Park and depending on where we were playing and you're right, we'd get up in the morning and that was our day and we'd play two or three games a day and whoever showed up, we'd pick up the teams then. How'd you choose upsides? Well, I'll show you how we did it. Well, okay. Just like this. How about? Watch out for this bat. All right, and here we throw it. Wait a minute, wait a minute, he got two hands in a row. No, I did not. Now, wait a minute, you got two fingers. I can go that because I can't fit the whole thing there. See, it wouldn't count. I'm up above the handle. He's going to put three fingers. So I want to just go like this to see if I can get in, but see I'm above the handle so it wouldn't count. Okay, so who wins? Well, right now it looks like Al is probably going to put two fingers in there. Yeah. Right, so he would be the winner. So he would get first choice. He'd get first choice, that's correct. Unless somebody else had the catcher's equipment. Oh. Anybody with a catcher's equipment had the show. Oh, so he had the catch. So if you're about a master, you're automatically a player. That's right. And we always choose the, we always chose the kid that had the smallest hands. We had a little advantage there with the bat handle. Okay, now what kind of games did you, what are some of the games you got? There was no rules, the sort of neighborhood rules as to how you played the game. It was one a cat, two a cat. Yeah. How did that work? Well, you usually had a catcher, a pitcher, an outfielder, and a batter. And that's four people. You didn't always get four people, sometimes you got three. Well, sometimes you got three. Okay, you did without a cat. And then you'd play in the road. Okay. Because he didn't have a field. So you'd play in the road and the man cover was the home base. The manhole cover was. Manhole cover in the road. That's a big strike zone. Big strike zone. And then a close telephone pole was a base. Right. So what you would do is you'd throw the ball, hit the ball, run to the telephone pole and try to get back to home. Try to get back to home in the same place. Yeah, that's what you'd try to do. And then if the ball was caught, you were out. And you'd rotate, you know. Right. Because everybody wanted to be the hitter, eventually. So viewers, if you've got a story you want to share with us, 8-6-2-3-9-6-6. Give us a call and tell us what your story is in baseball of days gone by in the Burlington area. Where did you play, what story can you add to us? So how about rounders, Dave? Do you remember what rounders was? No, no. Well, I think, well, as I recall, rounders. You get four or five guys and you get a pitcher, catcher, and outfielder. And if you got out, then the pitcher became the catcher or the batter. The guy was in left field, he rotated to the right. So again, so everybody got up. What we did when we didn't have enough kids is to put two teams together, right? Say we had three or four kids, right? One person would be the batter to throw the ball up in the air and hit the ball. And we'd play a game called 500, okay? And a fly ball would be worth 50 points. A grounder would be worth 25, right? And the first one to get to 500 was the winner. And so we played that game a lot if we didn't have enough. But we usually had enough. You know, we, in our neighborhoods, it was parks against parks. Like Schimanski would have a team. Roosevelt would have a team. And so when that was the case, we didn't have to select teams. It was neighborhoods against neighborhoods. And it was a blast back then. Well, there was no Little League back then. No, no, this is all before Little League. Yeah. And after Little League. I mean, you know, you have your season Little League, but then you have your whole summer. Yeah. You know, Little League pretty much goes with the school year. And you know, second week, third week in June, right? And then you'd have All-Stars if you were fortunate enough. But if you didn't play All-Stars, all during the summer, you would be on the playgrounds. Did you guys have a coach? Or just neighborhood kids getting together playing ball? It was usually neighborhoods kids. I mean, like for us, it was always an older brother. He was the coach anyways. We had to do what he told us to do anyways, right? So, but yeah, no, it was usually one of the older kids. And I would say that the average age was from anywhere from like 8 to 12, 13, somewhere in that area. So, you know, the older kids would kind of be the coaches. Yeah, that's the way it was. Now, I was talking to somebody last night and he said, there are different rules for different situations. Like if you only had three players, all you had was one outfielder. So the rule was if you hit the ball on the second base side, on the first base side in red field, you were out. You were out, that's right. Yep, we did that. And the left fielder was out there. So you had to hit it to the left fielder. Yep, yeah. And then, as you said, you hit the ball at the left fielder, run the first and get back to home plate in time before that. That's right. The fielder threw the ball to the pitcher who was covering home plate. That's right. That's the way it worked. Sure. And again, if you only had two batters, right, and they were both on base, say one was on first and one was on third, and it was that guy's turn to hit again on third, he would go down and hit, and there would be a ghost runner at third. So if that was his time to hit, he would go down and hit, and so there'd be a ghost runner, which would be nobody there, obviously. But if he got a base hit, that run would automatically count as if he was at third base. So we used to do that a lot. And you all agreed on all this stuff. There was no real dispute or over points, or it was not that the ghost runner was at second, not at third. No, because at the end of the day, I mean, when we had disputes and arguments because you had them, and you had fights, you had brothers, and you had the thing going on. But at the end of the day, you still wanted to play baseball. So you didn't want that to end the game, right? You still wanted to play. So you settled the arguments and you continued to play, and it was just, it was great. It was a good part of our life growing up. Now, growing up, we mentioned, you mentioned there was, you had no money in those days to buy equipment, not at all. So what we'd do was we'd go to the Burlington Cardinals baseball game, or go to a high school game, and if they broke a bat, we didn't have money to buy one. So we'd get, we'd scramble and scrounge that bat as soon as it was on the field and come home. We'd put screws in it, put screws in it, tape it, and nails in it, and then we'd tape it. Usually with black electric tape. Yeah, it was heavy tape. And that would, that was our bat. That's the only bat we had. That lasted a long time. And then, when it came to a baseball, now this is a nice baseball with a cover on it. Okay, but the covers come off when you play day in, day out, and when that would happen, then we'd put black tape on that. That was so ingrained in me, to use the ball as much as possible. When I got to be a high school baseball umpire, you know, I'd say a couple of grass stains on them, balls in play, balls in, today you'd put any little bit of stain and you'd throw it out. Is that right? Well, there's no question. They don't even want it. It hits the ground. Yeah, hits the ground. And they throw it out of the game. I remember, you know, going to baseball games when I was younger and whether they were up at Centennial and I was watching some of my brothers or UVM games way back when, right? And you were there after the game. You always waited for the umpire. And I'll never forget this because it taught me a lot. And when I became an umpire, I did this, right? You'd wait for the umpire to walk off the field and you would just hope he had an extra ball in his bag and he used to give it to you, you know? And I used to think that was a big deal. Sure. So every game that I've done and I've had to play, I've always kept one extra ball in my bag and I walk off the field. If I see, you know, a little boy, a little girl that's there waiting with a glove, I just flip them the ball. And it's something that has always stuck out with me. And I think it's a big deal. I think I thought it was a big deal for me and I hope that, you know, it's a big deal for them. And so it's just one of those things that you learned, you know? Jim Hickey. Jim Hickey was a long-time umpire from Runuski. He used to do it all the time. Yeah. I wish I had known that. That was a good thing to do. Yeah, no. And I still do it to this day. Yes. You know, speaking of umpires, you're both umpires. Oh, here we go. Ken Katich called me and said he'd sent his best. Yeah, okay. And hoped you were doing well. And your eyesight was good. Always was. Never problem myself. But he was a long-time umpire. Ken was one of the finest umpires I've worked with. Is that right? Yep. In 40 years of doing local baseball games on college level, on high school level, Ken Katich was one of the finest umps I've worked with. One other thing I just want to show you is this picture. And it's, if you could read it, Dave. Well, that looks like... It's from my brother-in-law, John Letty. Yes. No, that looks like a heartnut behind the plate there, but it's not me. It's a heartnut, though. It's a heartnut. It looks like my brother Jimmy. Yeah. Right. And this is his daughter. That's his daughter. Margaret. Right. She's sliding and he's saying... Of course. I don't know if they can get a shot of that close up, but anyways, this is at a Lulee game at South Park. And I know that for some of you newer listeners, that would be Cowhan Park. But it's a great shot at home plate. And it's, I believe, a Little League All-Star game. That John Letty's daughter... Margaret. Margaret was playing in. And she slides out... She slides at home. And of course, you can see the umpire saying safe, but the only problem was this umpire said he's safe. And it wasn't a he, it was a she. And John Letty took a section to that. So he sent the message loud and clear. So that's a great picture. We had that framed in our house. Yes. Okay. If you've got a story you want to share with us about your baseball experience in growing up in Burlington, give us a call. 8-6-2-3-9-6-6. 8-6-2-3-9-6-6. Now one of the issues we talked about, a manhole cover being home plate. Now we had to find something for bases too. I used to tell my mother, please use that five pound flower bag, or the five pound sugar bag, so we could fill it with sand and put that out. That was our first, second, or third base. So that was where we got bases. So it was a stick or whatever it was available. Right here, end of the back handle, drew the bases. And we made home plate the same way. And we used the back handle the way. If there was sand. If there was sand. But if even if it was stones, and sometimes there was stones, right? Yeah. We would, we would just... Right, that's how we would make the bases. Right with the back handle. Now how about gloves? I, I went down to my basement and got this glove. Man, is it old? It's barely... What do you call one of these? Trapper. Trapper. Trapper. So just a first baseman used it? Yeah, it's a first base glove. First baseman met, but back then it was a trapper. It was called a trapper back then. So you remember when we used to play baseball and leave the glove out in the field? You remember that? For the day? For someone on the other team? No, no, your team would come off the field and go to bat. You'd leave your glove out in center field or you'd leave your glove back in the shortstop place? They used to leave them out there. Oh, they did? They'd leave them out there. I don't know why. Where'd you buy your, where'd your first glove come from? Where'd you buy your first glove? I think it was Sears. Sears. Bell, you remember? No, LP Woods was my big store. Right, yeah. I went down Church Street. They were expensive. Well, he had it. He had the money. Right, he was all set. Now, Woolworth was the first. And of course, you remember what you used to do when you got a brand new glove? You had to buy a baseball. And you had to break it in. And you had to break it in. You used to tie it up with the string. You broke it up like this. And tie it up. Did you put oil in the glove? I didn't put oil. And then you put it underneath. I always put it underneath my mattress. Yeah. Right? You did what? Yeah, underneath my mattress. At nighttime, you put the glove underneath the mattress. So it would really, you know, and it worked. It worked great. Some guys would put needs foot oil on it to soften, try to soften it up. And some guys today in the major leagues put oil on their gloves. And they're putting a stop to that as well. Really? Yes. So does it help you catch, did it help you catch the ball or? Sure, because it broke it in. It was a lot softer. Okay, you know, like this is stiff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You would do that. Yep. And okay, now, you went to a ballpark. You were at Shemasker Park. By the way, I live in the Birchcliffe area in South End of Bergen. I used to play baseball in that. I was a kid playing baseball. That was truly a sand lot because it was sand all over that area. At South Park? Was it South Park? In Birchcliffe? In the Birchcliffe? Right at the end. Oh, sure. At the end, yeah. No, I got it. Before all those houses were built. Absolutely. Sure. Open land. And I lived in Charbon Road then. Yeah. And so that was, that was one of the areas. You ever hear about stick ball? No, that wasn't big back then with us. Mostly in the major cities. They're, you know, larger places. Well, let me define that with this, as described to me anyway, was you'd hit the ball, you'd play the road, okay? Yeah. You'd hit the ball and somebody would catch it. With a broomstick, probably. Huh? With a broomstick. Okay, yeah. And then you put the broomstick down flat and the fielder would roll a ball in. Is that the way that worked? I don't remember doing that. And it used to be a tennis ball, right? Probably a rubber ball. I don't think it was a hard ball with it. It would have been a tennis ball. Tennis ball. Right, yeah. And so they would roll that ball in and you who hit the ball, the ball would roll in and it would hit the, it would give me the bat. If the ball rolled in, and it hit the bat and if it jumped up and it caught it, you were out. Wow. And if it didn't catch it, then you'd stay a bat until you did anyway. So it just was crazy. That's a different one. Crazy little gap. Well, it depends on the neighborhood that you were in. That's true, yeah. And you just made up whatever you could. So what else have we got? A lot of times if there was, we didn't have a catcher, right? Right. And we were playing at Shemansky or a place that might have had a barn in the back, right? We used to take scotch tape, masking tape and make home plate on the barn. That was a strike zone. The pitcher would throw into that and if it landed in that square and the batter didn't swing, it was a strike. So we did that a lot if we didn't have enough players, right? No, Shemansky Park, as I remember, Redfield was a real slope. Yes, yes, it sloped up the hill. Shemansky Park is just a gem in the city of Burlington. I mean, we're so lucky to have so many great parks from Burlington, right? But Shemansky Park was a year-round park. You could slide, right? You went sliding there. And skating right there. Skating right there, baseball. And then in South Park, Redfield was wet. Yes, yeah. Yeah, it was always wet. Always wet. Always a swamp. So if you were the Redfielder, you almost wore boots. Yup, yeah. Then, of course, you had the Grandstand in South Park. Remember the Grandstand in South Park for many years. Yeah, no, they had to take them down. What about first Major League baseball you gave me ever saw? Do you guys remember where it was and who it was? You know, the first one I can remember, I lived on Decatur Street and Tim Sheeran lived up above on the corner. Anyway, it was 1946 and the Red Sox were playing St. Louis. Okay. And he had it on the radio. And that's the first Major League, right? Major League team ever. Does the name Vin Clancy mean anything to you? Yeah, Vin Clancy. I told you he's a library radio. Doesn't to me at all. Go ahead. I don't know. No, it doesn't. I thought you would know. Yup. Vin Clancy was a manager of the Cardinals. Burlington Cardinals. And he did it for a number of years. And of course they were all collegiate ballplayers. Right. And then when it ended for him, he became an FBI agent in Burlington. Oh, really? And he was stationed here. Wow. So Clancy was known to a lot of people. Okay. So, now Burlington Cardinals were part of the Northern League. What other teams were in the Northern League? Was Bravo Rural Generals? And you had Rutland Royals. Yeah, I forgot about Rutland Royals. And the other one you had, oh, King New Hampshire. King All Stars. Blue Jays. Blue Jays. Blue Jays. So we really had two versions of Northern League Baseball, right? Because it was that version way back when. Yup. But then in years after that, you had a Northern League Baseball. And you had the Burlington A's and the Expos. Yeah, right. And you had Keen still had a team in there. And you had Saxons River. Yeah, that's right. You're a part of those games. I am part of those games. But that was kind of an offset to that Northern League Baseball League then, right? It was. And it was minor league. And it was very good baseball. It was. Very good baseball. Very, very good. If you've got a baseball story, call us. 8-6-2-3-9-6-6. We've got our own stories going here with Dave Hartnett and Al Sharon. I'm Bill Keough. We're trying to go over the years of baseball that happened in Burlington. And certainly baseball is part of Burlington society. And it's been that way for 100 years, seems like. But it's something we all enjoy. And whether you're a participant or a spectator, it's always good to go to Centennial Field. To me, it's the most beautiful park. I know it's old. They've done a lot of upgrades to it. But a lot of history. Oldest minor league park in the country, right? And there's so much history there. And it's nestled in just a beautiful community up there in Ward 1. And surrounded by University of Vermont, the hospital, and the homes. It's just been a great fit for all these years up there. And the fact that we still have baseball there is great. Oh, yeah. Now, let's talk about umpires, since that's a lot of our profession. Sure. Some of the famous umpires. You mentioned Jim Hickey. Jim Hickey. Zumbla Point was another one. Lefty. Yep, Lefty. Joe Johnson. Yep. Yep. Blank Blanchard. Yep. Lefty Blanchard. Lefty Blanchard. Yeah, for sure. Tell a story about Jim Hickey. I know somebody's telling this story. He made a bad call. And man, the team that went against him all got on the field. And even the bus driver started to come after him. I don't know if it was Dave Hartnett or Doug Blanchard. Would that let everybody go after Jim Hickey? But bus driver, stay in your bus. Yep. Jerry Bean told me a story. And it was St. Mike's playing UVM. And it was Marky and LePoy. Marky, sure. Yep. And Zumb was umpiring. Right. And he made a bad call. And he said, and they started arguing about it. And he wouldn't admit that there was a bad call. So finally, according to Jerry Bean, he said, we're going to start over. Do over? We're going to start over. Yeah. I don't know if they did or not. But I had one story. I was doing a game in Middlebury College. I called the batter out. Strike three, you're out. And the batter complained to me. He said, it's the worst call I've ever seen. And I said, wait till you see the next one. The guy on deck said, no, no, no, don't do that. Can't do that. No, you know, listen, it's a tough job. It's not easy in umpiring. And I still do it now. And I'm still doing high school games. And I still volunteer at the low league level. And you know, the numbers are just rumbling. There's no more umpires. There's no more officials in general, right? There's a huge shortage, not only in Vermont, but across the country, right? And it's a tough job. And you know, to be honest with you, Bill, I never really had many issues with ball players or even coaches. It was the parents in the stands. They knew everything and they knew the rules. But in general... Tell me about Tony Brandolino speaking of umpires. Tony Brandolino still alive, 88 years old, still ump in games. I did a game with him last week here at Schiff-Fleddy Park. We talked about umpires that we umpired with. And of course you mentioned the great Ed Markey, right? But two umpires that left just long lasting impressions on me and made a difference certainly in my career as an umpire was Tony Brandolino and Roger Woods. Oh yeah, Roger was a great umpire. And those guys just started out really in Little League Baseball. I mean, that's where they really began. And then they worked their ways up and did high school and some college games and stuff. But you know, it's certainly, like I said, the numbers aren't there and it's really difficult to recruit umpires. Nobody really wants to do it. It kind of takes a special person, right? That is able to handle. And that's why I said it helped me out the council level a lot, right? You always feel like you're under attack from both sides. And I've always said this, when you walk off the field and both sides are mad at you, you did a great job. Yeah. Right? I think I agree with you with respect to it's good training to be a politician because people always criticize you as an umpire. Sure. I mean, oh, here comes Dave Hart, here comes Bill Keough. Oh, it's going to be a terrible game. Well, you're a holler at it. Dave, what do you got there? What's wrong with you? As a politician, you get the same criticism. But you learn to get a thick skin. Sure. A thick skin and you roll with the bunches and you don't take it personal. And uh, but I agree with parents. Yeah, the parents. Parents can have to be tough. I mean, Bill, we were fortunate to, but I think back, you know, my years, uh, you know, when I was really active at the high school level, right? And you think about some of the coaches, right? In the Northern Vermont. Yeah. Right? And you think about Jim Carter and Jim Billings and Steve Ferrara and Mike Perrow and Dave Stoutman there and Jeff Stetson down there and Bob Slaton and Donnie Peacart. I can go down the list. These guys were just classy guys, right? And they understood you had a job to do. And they might get mad at you and argue a call, right? But the next game it was forgotten. Oh, I know. Right. And we were very fortunate. Perry Bolvin. I, you know, these guys were just, I respected them. They respected me. And we had a great relationship. And I was just at Wayne Corsi's memorial service the other day. And I ran into a bunch of those guys there. And they're lifelong friends, right? Sure. And it's been a, it's been a big part of my life, as I said earlier. And these coaches and, and now I'm up in games and kids are coming up to me. Their moms, their dads are coming up to me and say, geez, Dave, you did my game when you were, when I was in high school, right? And let's get back to some names on the new north end like Charlie Shifferlitty. Oh, legend. Bill Peacart. Yeah. Bob Rosenberg. Sure. Joe, you know, Bob Levitt, was it? Bob Levitt, yeah. He was just a great guy out there. You know, just all in Burlington, Greg Claremont, Thomas Claremont, you know. Tom. Stanton, was it Bob Stanton down there in the south end as well? Yeah. Lillian Hardy, Dot LaBelle, my dad. I mean, you could just, all kinds of people that have. Earl Simpson tribute it. All contributed. You remember Earl Simpson or what? Earl Simpson. Yep, Simpson, yeah. Earl Simpson took care of that south end Little League Park forever, didn't he? So did Mary Keenan. Yes. He used to get down there. Oh, really? Yeah, even the mayor. You know what the biggest difference today that I see? And I don't, you know, everyone says, all the kids are different. Well, sure, they're different. And we're in a different, you know, we're in a different. But the one thing that I don't see anymore that you used to see back then is that, you know, sure, somebody, you know, you might have coached your son, right? But then you stayed, right? These coaches that we just mentioned, they stayed whether their kids were playing or not. Yeah. And today, and I get it, you know, you're busy, you got a lot going on, both parents are working, right? You coach your kids and you move on with them, right? And that's the way the world works today. And I get that. But back then, that's not how it was, right? These coaches stayed forever, whether their kids were involved or not. They did. Right? Yeah. Yeah. They stayed for a long time. Yeah. I never saw an argument. There might have been disagreement between Ori and Zumb. Right. Zumb old point. Right. You were talking about respect. Yeah, absolutely. You know, not flying off the handle or. Yeah, but sometimes those guys got really, I mean, they get inflamed. I mean, they're upset, emotionally upset. Again, not. It's not personal. I've been, they go one side of me down the other on a certain call. But it was all gone the next time. It was all gone after a game, yeah, no question. But now they've changed the rules, so you can't do that as much as you can. Well, and you had to know the rules. That's the... Yeah. Yeah. You know, and we've talked about this bill before, right? But it's, it's really, I've always felt, from an umpire's standpoint of you, it's really how you walk on that field and how you control the game more than you actually call it. Right. Right. If you walk on that field and you're there and you know you're there to do a job and do a game and the kids sense that you're with them, right? That hey, this guy in blue is not a bad guy, right? Yeah. At the end of the day. It's going to go much better. So I always felt when I walked on that field that I had command of the situation, right? And I knew the players on the field and everybody had a little different style whether if I went to Jim Carter and Manuski and I, and I understood how he wanted a game called right and respected that. And then on the other hand, the next day you'd go over to Essex and you have your hands filled with Coach Ferrer over there, kneeling down on the third base side. But I had just as much fun there as I did there and it was just, it was great. I was doing a game at Manuski one time and I don't know, after the third out it must have been called strike three and there was a third out. Jim Carter comes out and gets up shoulder to shoulder to me. He said, Bill, I think that last one was a ball. And then have another story, Manuski. Jim Douglas, Governor Douglas, kids played baseball? For Millbury, they came out and played little league baseball at Shiflady Park. Okay. So we were having a game in Manuski. Right. And he was over by the Middlebury dugout. And I know he was a state treasurer at the time. At the time, right, yes. So he kept giving me some crap. I had to play it. So I went over, I said, you know, Jim, I can see you played pretty good from here, from the next of the dugout, about 30 yards away from home plate. So I meant to call in the Kurt Wright show about that, but when the governor's on. But Governor Douglas's son, when he played for them, he played for the Millbury All Stars at Shiflady Park. And he was probably, you know, I've done a lot of games there, but he was one of the kids that probably threw the hardest if I remember. Oh. Yeah, Governor, the governor's son. Yeah, and it was, you think of all the players that have played at Shiflady Park, right? John Leclerc, right? I mean, all these, you know, great athletes from around, they've all somehow have connection to little league baseball. Oh, they do. Right. We talk about Lenny Whitehouse, you know. Yep, Lenny Whitehouse. And we talk about all these kids that get drafted from Vermont. And it's quite an honor. Look, we just had one. They got four, yep, in the fourth round for Pittsburgh. Here's what I've always said about Lenny Whitehouse, right? Never got drafted. Never did. Never, Lenny Whitehouse was never drafted. Whoa. Nope. And he went down and never gave up. And he finally got signed on with the Texas Rangers, I believe, and then Minneapolis. He spent eight years pitching in the major leagues. Relief pitcher. Relief pitcher, right? Let's talk about Dick Smollin. Dick Smollin. Dick Smollin with the Notre Dame came to Burlington, played professional baseball. What stories do we have about Dick Smollin? That we can tell. Well, there's not many that we can tell. I can tell you this. Well, I will say this about Dick Smollin. Nobody knew the game better. Nobody respected the game better, right? And he was a tremendous talent. Right? Tremendous pitcher. And I think, and again, a big influence on a lot of kids. Oh, he was. No doubt about it. And I can remember going back and visiting Mr. Smollin, as I always refer them to. And we would be down at the breakfast club there on Chevrolet. All these former ball players would come back and tell these great stories about Dick. So I think Dick really had a big impact on a lot of kids. I think he was from New Jersey originally. Originally. Right, yeah. And then he played up here and he stayed up here. Yep, absolutely. Raised his family out in the New North End, coached out there. And his son, Jimmy, was a hell of an athlete and a baseball player. Then they moved to South Burlington and they played there. Okay. Well, I think it's almost time that we wrap up here. Dave Hartnett, thanks for joining us. Absolutely. Thank you. It's been great. Well, Sharon, thanks for changing stories. I think it was a good summary of Burlington's baseball. So folks, thanks for watching. I hope you enjoyed it. A different approach. You didn't have any questions or stumped the chumps, but we could have if we looked them up. So, okay. Thank you for watching Stumped the Chumps. We'll see you again.