 So the webinar today is part of the DUP-C2 series that we organized for our partners on eLearning. And we had several webinars before on open education, on distance communication and distance teaching. And this one is a specific one on open educational resources with the title open education perspectives for water resources with examples from GIS and hydrogeology. And I'm very happy that we have as a guest Sol Montoya from Hatteri Labs who makes great tutorials that are, you find a lot on social media, free webinars on all things that have to do with groundwater modeling and the use of Python, for example, and mudflow. So it's about open educational resources. And first, we also handled that in the previous webinars, it's a question about what does open really mean in open education, open access and these things. It means that a piece of data is open, if anyone is free to use it, to reuse it and to redistribute it. And it means that there can be only very few restrictions to that. And there are only two restrictions according to the open definition that you can ask to attribute. So who made it, which personal organization, and you can use share alike to attribute means that you have to refer to the organizational person and share alike means that everything that you derive from the materials should also be openly shared in a similar way with a similar license. I'll not cover licenses in this presentation I did that in another webinar. So open education has different products, we have MOOCs, we have webinars and all kinds of other open access materials. And of course we do that because our core business is to share knowledge. But I want to go a bit deeper into why do we want to share knowledge openly and what are then the results of that we can use. But let's first of all check the definition of open educational resources so strictly it's any free accessible openly licensed material, text media, digital stuff that are useful for teaching, learning and assessing as well as for research purposes. That's the official definition. And basically it's publicly accessible materials that users can use, reuse, improve, redistribute. Now, in this presentation go a bit further to not only have the completely open ones but also the ones that are have a few more restrictions like non commercial use or that you just have view it on the internet, which is also very useful. So why open educational resources that's the main questions of course we want to in our organizations as a knowledge institute we want to disseminate our knowledge as widely as possible. But open educational resources are particularly useful to increase our visibility as our organization, but also to increase the visibility of specific experts who disseminate that material like soul and me are doing. In that way we can increase impacts because many more people can use it, and we can get feedback from a wide audience on our materials and their interests. I will go into more details on these different aspects. What is also very useful is to create or to be part of a certain community so if you're into GIS you can be part of a community dealing with GIS or particular GIS open source GIS particular tools like QGIS. And then the open educational resources also give you access to a different audience because in our institute we have a certain audience that that come to study with us or go for short courses they can apply for scholarships. So that's based on different criteria than the people who are just out there finding open educational resources and different backgrounds. And that's interesting to know. I will follow up on that later. And then open educational resources are quite easy to make because you can open up parts of existing materials that you already using e-learning so certain videos, certain tutorials that you already made. It's easy to implement without an e-learning infrastructure. You can use infrastructure that's out there on the internet. So you can use platforms like YouTube or Google Drive. So it expands the access to learning, not a specific registration database that you need to set up but you use popular tools. It can be in any format. It's a very rapid way of disseminating because there's not much regulation on it. You don't need to give credits or diplomas. From the side of the user, it's cost saving. So for lifelong learning and keeping yourself up to date, that's very useful for your participants who access to open educational resources. And then another important aspect is that it's more and more getting a requirement from a government or a donor if you are a Knowledge Institute project funded that you disseminate as open educational resources. Now it has to fit also with your business model as your organization and I've explained the business model also in our other webinars. I'm not going to repeat the whole theory behind this. You can look that back. But the essential is that with the different materials that you produce as an educator, you have different rates and different amount of participants that can use it. So for the free materials like open courseware and open educational resources you have many participants that can use it. And it has no cost. The assumption is that that's very accessible and useful for people who don't need support because it doesn't come with any support. It also doesn't come with a diploma or other things is just as it is. That's also the big disclaimer with open materials. No expectations is just as it is. But we know from our experience that many people need support in different ways or a different product than just having videos out there on the internet or the tutorials. So you can present things nicely in a book, especially for computer courses books are still popular as hard copy also because then you can have it next to your screen where you do the exercises. Many people buy still books very good and then there's the online course where you also provide support. And you can provide a diploma and course credits. There's short courses that can be face to face where people come to your Institute and meet you as an expert. I'm Taylor made trainings that's for specific organizations asking you for specific training materials to develop which is state of the art and become a budget for that. That's the most interesting part from our perspective if it's about development of education. And then there's the master programs that you might give in your knowledge institute like university. Where the less people are following those materials but they have access to the full, the full scale of educational product including diplomas face to face contact credits, etc. So as I explained in the earlier webinar, the innovation and the development takes place there. And what I'm going to explain today is that these open educational resources play an important role in finding that audience who wants those tailor made trainings and to show what you have as an expert and as an institute. So webinars are really useful to find out your market potential so webinars one form of an open educational resource so we are now currently in a webinar and can be very low profile to do use you see this open source. You can also use expensive tools for that we try out always different tools so let's see how this works. And we evaluate what works best for a certain project or audience. And I recently finished a series of seven webinars with my co author Kurt Menke, the QGIS Hydro webinars and they were very successful. We found out that many people registered for it and they come from many different countries as the map showed and created the kind of community that got engaged with us and it was really nice to figure out who is using the materials and in what way and how they learn and see their progress during all the webinars. So, if you have open educational resources. Where do you put them so webinars are live so you use a platform for that to have live communication like like you'd see or like zoom or other tools, but for other more asynchronous types of open educational resources. If you don't have your own infrastructure, you can use for example YouTube make a YouTube channel doesn't cost anything. You upload your videos there and get some experience you need to invest a little bit in a good microphone and a good camera if you want to show your face not even necessary. And YouTube also comes with all kinds of monitoring and evaluation tools I will show that later but it also has the opportunity that you can engage with your audience to comments they can ask questions. I also come back to that. Another alternative for that is Vimeo. I heard that people who don't have infrastructure also can easily use the Google Docs environment to post their all kinds of tutorials. Share documents even make forms with Google forms. Another nice thing for computer based courses, especially for programming languages like Python or are is are the Jupyter notebooks. So you can easily make them on your own computer and if you store the Jupyter notebook on GitHub, where a lot of source code can be stored then you can connect with a tool which is called binder to that and then you have launched your online course without any server that you yourself have to run. You can add some screenshots in a bit. That's very useful. And GitHub pages, it's very useful if you want to make a website with a simple markdown languages it's called where you can add your tutorials, a link to all kinds of resources that it's very easy and free to set up as long as you have a GitHub account. There are many other ways I'm also curious to know from you if you find some easy ways to share your open educational resources if you don't have a whole learning environment like like model, for example. So this is a screenshot from my YouTube channel. So there you host your videos you can easily upload it. You can subscribe and then they get automatic updates so that's a way to create a community. You can have an intro video showing what you have to offer, and you can discuss with people you can make a playlist on certain topics, and you can reach out to the community by posting things that you are doing and that's interesting announced webinars for example. You can advertise other things like here that I she delved courses, links to social media to other websites. So it's not a useful thing that you can do with your YouTube channel. And you don't have to set up the infrastructure it's already there. One disadvantage is that some countries cannot access YouTube. Therefore you need to look for if that's your target group you need to look for other platforms. So this is a screenshot from the Jupiter notebook. And this one I made for a Python course a basic Python course and stored on GitHub and to binder anybody in the world can just launch it and run it as an online course. It's interactive so you can type and run your code there and, and it's theory in between. Very easy way to present computer courses. The important is monitoring and evaluation because you want to achieve impact. You want to see that people learn from your stuff you want to know who it is. The backgrounds, but you also want to see how it impacts the sales of your courses or the other products like, like books. So we can see for the Q just hydro webinars, a graph of the sales of the book and we see that the webinars increased the sales, it cost a jump which is almost as big as the Christmas sales. So we can directly measure the impact of the webinar on the sales of the book for the YouTube channel we can also get all kinds of analytics that are provided by YouTube. So you can see here for the whole lifetime of my YouTube channel, the increase of views. And you can see that the peaks are very much related to the amount of videos that you publish. So the more you publish of course the more people to view and will know you and will subscribe. So that's very important. And also for one video this one was posted yesterday you can check how well it's performing so in the gray area you see the uncertainty band of the average video. And you can see that in the first hours it was performing much better than the average and then stabilizes. This gives you some information about what the audience likes and how much the attention lasts for such a video. What's also interesting to see is what are the topics that people like most. This is an overview of the whole lifetime of my YouTube channel so of course the videos that are longer are more popular than the more recent one so it's better to look at it in the recent months or years. And here we see a catchment and stream delineation is very popular. Many views. This is the top five. And you also want to know how do people reach you, reach your know about your videos and most from external sources. So mostly they search on YouTube but from the external sources they come from the Google search, mostly, or from the HEDL website, or our searches on YouTube itself in another way social media is less. And you can also see the performance of your playlists, and we see that the most popular playlists are the theoretical lectures. So if we dig a bit further in those analytics we can see that most people on the whole lifetime of the channel come from India, most visitors, and then from the United States and then other countries. We see that the gender balance is not okay, any suggestions to improve it and welcoming that but most are male and so based on this slide we can say most of them are Indian male of around 25 to 34 years. But that's quite some information about your target group that you're reaching with these videos. And then you also want to see how does your open educational resources impact the visitors on your open courseware platform like we have at IHE and we can see here a peak that is caused by a MOOC from Afri Alliance. And here a peak that is caused by an earlier webinar that we gave. So it's important to measure. So there's some good practice advice so be aware of your business model how do your open educational resources fit in your business model. It's mostly a marketing tool and to show people what you can do in a very easy way. You need to monitor and evaluate to find out who your target groups are, what are popular topics, devices, etc. It's a good advice to work with registrations or subscriptions because then you also know who are following you and you can also reach out to them and give them updates actively. Another important one you need to find a balance between your personal outreach as an expert so I have my personal YouTube channel but I use it as marketing for IHE Delft products. And that goes well, I would say because that's a win-win but you always need to have, I think a good discussion about this on where the balance is and depends a bit on how much you can trust people to do that balance in a good way. So saying that you're publishing a book, you know, you can publish a book on personal title using all your IP that you've gained in your organization without mentioning the organization and that's of course not a really good thing. And I think it's very important to build a community around your educational materials so you know that that will give added value to both sides. So now some challenges about good things and challenges about interaction with users. I made your skill from green to red and I'll put on the screen some comments on the YouTube channel and you always need to think what does fit with your your aims, your business model, what you want to achieve and what doesn't. So of course what gives very much energy are compliments. What really does not give energy is, yeah, requests. So next webinar and flood analysis, please. We also do the consultancy and we need to develop things and it costs us time. So requests with very broad topics are not very helpful if you want to know something specific and then you could in a kind way of course ask it. So this person asks about something in detail about the video, how we determine some thresholds. Now that's a really good question that you can simply answer. You also hope that people help each other. I don't see that happening much. So mostly I'm answering those questions. So this one, yeah, again, a request and also about the quality of the video but yeah if you put your comment one minute after uploading then even YouTube's not fast enough to put in HD quality so people also need a bit patience with you. When you do that. There's somebody who asks basically an exam question or an assignment so you need to be very sensitive to that and don't go into that too much of helping people out with the problems they have at school, because that's not your job. So there's some more examples here. This one is an interesting one about how to get a DTM of one meter I get a lot of these questions how can I get the land use map that you showed for Europe for some country in Africa. Well that's a deeper problem that relates to open data availability. And somehow people expect me to have the answers questions they have to solve in their countries. Some final slides. So open educational resources are a great opportunity to achieve outreach through social media so every time you publish something also publish it on social media to require attention. Keep in mind that millennials are used to learn from short videos so open educational resources are are mostly very short materials, say maximum five minutes that shows a trick. And they use the mobile phone we see here graph from our open course where we see that the mobile phone uses very much increasing compared to the computer. And then yeah outreach on social media also gives you all kinds of analytics that you can use so webinars really give a lot of outreach potential. So you can market also on LinkedIn which also gives a lot of interaction. So concluding slide. It's important to define always for yourself your objectives. What do you want to achieve with open educational resource, which target group are you looking for new ones. The efficiency. Make it fit in your general business model. Establish a monitoring and evaluation framework so you also know that you achieve your objectives or you can change things in your setup. Marketing through social media very important. Find the balance between personal and organization outreach. And of course there to share don't be afraid to share. And normally I end webinars with geo beers. And I can also give that as a recommendation for if you present something to a community give them the opportunity to discuss with you to be open and to find each other and these geo beers have been a great opportunity for that. Nadine maybe you can tell me if there were some questions. Hi Hans, can you hear me. Yes. Okay great. Thanks a lot for your presentation very interesting. There are no questions at the moment. I would like to mention once again that if you have any questions. Please post them in the chat box. And it's the third icon from the left on the bottom left. And there you can open the chat and post any questions you have. I will collect them and put them forward to Hans and so later. Can I ask a question. Sure. I was wondering because you're sharing a lot of information with others. What have you learned yourself from doing this exercises. Two things. I learned how to make open course or open educational resources that's already very important because when you start with it or experimenting quite a bit with that. Otherwise you learn a lot from that group that is following your stuff because some are really innovative and really ask questions that you think hey I need to figure this out and or even find mistakes and help you improve your materials so there's really a win win there. Great. Thanks. Well, I would say continue. I would like to encourage once again, people to post questions in the chat box also experience they have with this kind of exercises, challenges, positive things, everything you would like to share. Again, then we can give the floor to to solve. Go ahead. Okay. Hi, do you hear me well. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. It's nice to be in this webinar thank you Hans for the invitation. I will talk about my presentation that these. Okay. Well, my part of the presentation of open education perspective for water resources and samples in G from GS and hydrogeology. Okay, about us. For knowledge sharing in Spanish and English we use extensively the social media web resources we provide education based on open source software. So that means no more change to the students and we develop content and tutorial based on the latest open soul open software releases. On the history. Has more is more than eight years old while the labs is it has only three years so it's only three years old. Both are websites. Both in fact are websites of a consulting company. So in the end we are a consulting company. And we develop at the beginning we develop social network and events but only Peru and in 2016 we started to give online courses and with always developing tools. I mean, there was a lot of experiencing here purpose. University is an institution of higher education by why a website should educate and apply tool for water resources. All we love what we do, and we are convinced that better education will create better water resources professionals and better professionals we contribute to a sustainable water resources management. And, okay, this is the main purpose of why we post tutorials, because it's profitable in the end is a good business model. So how we manage our business model of doing tutorials, but also earning money. We spend 50% of our time doing tutorial pause and webinars free of charge. People visit our website, know us, follow us, and then by a course or contact us to develop a model or evaluation. For most people when one by courses and this is this can be measured if we stop posting, there will be no no contact for projects or like they won't buy any of our commercial courses. So far, we always had work and our business model is very versatile, especially with drops on the economy stock market crash or in these COVID times on the matrix. And matrix are kind of mixed for both. For both websites on the Atari has more than 44,000 followers in Facebook, while three laps only is close to 4000 followers on Twitter are almost the same less than 1000 on YouTube. That we consider you to the most powerful channel. We have more than 16,000 followers in your Atari, while we have close to 5000 followers in three laps. We have a newsletter from the beginning, and the newsletter in Spanish has more than 14,000 subscribers, while in English only has 1500. On business per day, you have more is around 2000 visits. Around 2000 visits per day, sometimes we reach 3000 visits per day depends on what we post. While in Hatred Labs, we are about we are a little bit more of 1000 visit per day on a weekday. Okay, on total web sessions on your Atari, we have around 3 million web sessions, while in Hatred Labs, we only have half a million. Okay, let's talk about open education. Education is the process of facilitating learning and the process of acquiring knowledge, skills, and values. But how we educate, we educate through posts, through tutorials, through webinars and through courses. And let's talk about open education. I mean, for us, what is open education? It's a synonym of learning by yourself. Open education has to be always online. How we change the attitude, the attitude of professionals through towards open software. And how can we motivate professionals to learn new stuff independently of receiving a certificate or a diploma? How can we prove the quality of our material? And how can our education can make changes on water resources management? On the education topics, water resources is a vast topic. But we develop content mostly on groundwater modeling, spatial analysis and computational fluid mechanics. These are the topic. These are the demands of most of our tutorials. There are other interesting topics that need other websites like water supply, water treatment, hydrological modeling. There are still uncovered topics in water resources that need some interesting websites. Okay, we deliver content-based education. We, content can be improved with rich media and YouTube or any video improve the user experience and the concept of understanding. Okay, this is a final remark. Success of online education is the environment creation or a learning experience. Everything that we gave through the website videos and rich media only helps, only creates an environment because if the student is the one that will acquire knowledge, we are only a tool for that. On the development of this presentation, we came to this question. Is education an experience? Maybe it is. We couldn't answer that clearly. But we have to create an amazing experience to give value to the content. Everything is related to the experience. It doesn't matter how good your tutorial is if the students do not have a nice experience by learning this. But how to give value to something that is open? I mean, if it's open education on the people conceptualization, it means that it's free and maybe the quality is not assured, not assured, because you have not paid for that. And we can give value to the content because it's clear or because it's well explained. And we can give value because it can be applied to common problems. And because of the passion, we devote in developing this content. And this is a new topic. If we want people to follow our tutorials, you really need to put a lot of passion on what you do. And then the knowledge paradigm. There are two approaches to knowledge. On a Latin American perspective is the close approach. Like it says, do not share your knowledge. It is good that other people don't know so you can excel among them. And there is the open approach and say, share what you know so other people will know your capabilities and more things can be done. Unfortunately, the first approach is the most common around here in Latin America. They have told us the close approach just to keep the knowledge for ourselves. But if you are trying to be famous on the social networks, you need to use the open approach. You have to share the base of your knowledge. Otherwise, nobody will follow you because nobody follows a bad content. That means that nobody follows tutorials with all software, video tutorials, bad video production, or boring teachers. The student model. People follow your tutorials because they need or because they follow you. It's hard to measure the success of open education. Unless there is a test. Okay, but the test is can be missing. And there is an involuntary scope or matrix on visits and like us and shares because of these matrix we think that we have been successful. Okay, we think that we that we created something. Okay, maybe it's not exactly true. And it's hard to provide specific support. And final and remark on this is that the student is the base of open education and we need to focus more on the student opinion and the student experience. Okay, let's talk about support that is something that is kind of very. This is extremely important, but it's also has some some special remarks. It can be a resource consuming activity. I mean, you can spend lots of time just answering questions. And we can provide a specific support. I mean, we can provide the answer for the assignment of the of somebody or we can provide the maybe even we can even provide the what is the reason of the error of somebody that has done the your tutorial and he couldn't finish that maybe. And there could be thousands of reasons that we can provide a specific specific support for that problem. Okay, we usually answer comments to our website on the day we answer emails on two or three days, as well as the Facebook message. But in this time, and we don't reply to comments. We don't know why. I mean, because we have a lot of YouTube comments and we can we have never replied to them. Well, let's let's let's hope that in the future we can do something about that. And let's talk about influencers because we are open education is close to social media and social media is close to influencers. Okay. And what is an influencer is a person that has the power to affect decisions. For water resources, it can affect this is topics software user and policy making is powered by social media and an influencer voluntary and involuntary can do a lot of benefits, or can do a lot of harm. Okay. There are few influences and water resources. Not everybody knows each other on the web, but more will come. Okay, let's talk about software tools. Okay, what's the difference in between an applied blog and an only sharing platform. You have a blog on whatever topic you want to develop by the tools that Hans, that Hans has talked about. But, well, we consider us, we consider ourselves and knowledge sharing platform that is a kind of another step on open education, and by basically the differences, the type of contents, the amount of students and the amount of software involved We use software for everything to keep our website. So we use softwares mostly in Python for sending the newsletter for signing up for courses and for to create and send courses certificates. On the other side, we use databases as my SQL as Postgres SQL and MongoDB. We use Squarespace to launch our website. We use ModoBoa that is a complete set of tools to maintain the newsletter until they may. And we use Modo as online platform. And we are about to launch a question and answer website for open source software. So I mean, this will be, I don't know if you know Stack Overflow. We are going to launch something like Stack Overflow, but for water resource open source open software in water resources, because it's needed. I mean, like, there is no central part where you can put questions. Okay, this is a topic that I talk, that I talk hands that is really new, that is, what is a webinar on demand? This is something, sometimes we create tutorials on demand. So I send, post a coming or send an email and say, hey, why don't you create a tutorial on this topic? Okay, and say, okay, this is a good idea. Okay, we learn as well from that. But it's also, but it's also possible to deliver classes on demand. And this is why it's important because it creates an active behavior of the students towards knowledge because the students requires that they want the topic of the classes that they want. So this is example, this is in Spanish, but to say, hello, my name is that I am from the University of Cusco. We have seen your YouTube videos, but we would like that you gave us a webinar about workflow, because we want to continue our education during this quarantine. So I received this on my LinkedIn and say, okay, and I told you, okay, that could be possible, but how could I know that you are really interested and say, why don't you use, why don't you post a Facebook event? But in this case, they have done a survey. So they have done a survey and where they have to complete their data, and they have to give preference for the, they have to give preference for the, for the, for the webinar, the type of computer they have, etc. Okay, so the survey on the survey 100 people were interested. So we post the event, actually the event is will be in four hours from now. Okay, and the event is in Spanish and people have signed up to our Moodle website and we have so far 54 participants have signed up for this event. So on this, we are really happy on that because it's, it's an approach that the students is more proactive on deciding why they want, what they want to know. Okay, well, I think that it's a successful experience of open education, which is the future of open education in water resources. Finally, is we want to create better later, better learning experience. Okay. We have to keep on always that in mind to, we have to focus on the learning experience. We have to create a student interest. And the future is also to create things together among institutions. Okay, because the student sees value of that. Okay, because it's not what you teach is what you teach together or whether the other institution teach, teach. And, and then they may be the future of open education is open not online education but open and in person education. So I mean, free free classes or open classes on a classroom. And the future of open education is also new tutorial for open soft for open softwares because open, there is a lot of open new open software that is being developed. And this new open software that is being developed has excellent documentation, but for example, for the latest mob flow six release, there are no courses on that because no, there is no teacher on that. So our tutorial maybe is the most reliable source of education. If you want to learn those, those softwares. Okay, if you like what we do, or you want to follow us, this is our social networks in English. And if you speak Spanish, you can follow us in our network in Spanish. Well, I think that the who asked my presentation. Thank you for hands for this opportunity. I don't know if there are some questions. Thank you so those really great presentation and great to see how you see the things. I can surely recommend the people who watched this webinar to, to follow you and to find out what Hatteri labs is doing in courses and webinars and especially open educational resources are quite strong on that. I know so from from social media we met only later at the open source QTS conference and got in touch with each other so you also see how it builds your network in that way. I have a few things that I would like to discuss with you before we go into the plenary discussion. So, you mentioned also that the people who follow this, of course, they don't get a diploma or credits but do you also see like what I observed that they are really motivated people because they still follow your webinars, even they know that they don't get any monetary compensation or diploma. I find them very engaging is that also your experience. Yes. I mean, because we have a policy that we don't, we don't have to give diploma for everything. I mean, like if you attended the webinar is this is actually that you were there. It doesn't mean that you actually learn. Okay, so if you, if you learn you have to provide a document or maybe doing a test or a quiz that say, okay, I have learned these concepts and this cost money. I mean, this is exactly that's added value products which you would ask money for. And the intrinsic motivation part of the people who follow open educational resources that they are very motivated to spend time in their free time often to watch webinars and to engage with us. And there is another example, for example, as a groundwater modeler, resources of education are really scarce, really, really scarce. If you want to learn mod flow is, I mean, you have the mod flow documentation, some videos of the developer for model news and our tutorials. That's it. There is no, yeah. And for us, the, our videos takes really long. I mean, we can have a video for 40 minutes, we can be used even with errors. Sometimes we, our video is, and it's a split because we because I couldn't solve something and then I have to retake in another video. Yeah, but this is the only is maybe one of these card sources of tutorials in English and in Spanish. And we see that as an opportunity that's the same with the stuff that I do with QGIS for hydrological applications is that yeah there are no good classes yet on that no textbooks, no tutorials there there's a lot of course but all nicely in the open educational resources environment and I see many colleagues around the world making stuff that being specific for hydrology, there wasn't much. And then that's a great opportunity to profile yourself as an expert your organization as being having expertise in that, and to get this motivated target group will really follow those things. I have a question about your webinar on demand idea. I also like that very much. So how do you see the you have now experienced with it and today you will have such a webinar on demand. So, probably you still have to learn from how that goes but how would you operationalize such a thing, because now it was an email that came in, and I also receive a lot of these emails and some you think okay let's do it and for others you think let's don't do this. So, how what are guidelines for that. I mean, which is the decision tree of making or not making them. Yes, it cannot be from, they have always to present that they represent a group like group of students or maybe a university or something like that. Maybe it appears by their own, maybe we won't create any webinar on that. And most of the webinars on demand are actually topics that we know that are not well covered. I mean, like, or maybe basic topics. And the main criteria is the, the related group that are asking for this course. And that's important because a question that is only interesting for one person and does not give you enough justification of spending time on figuring out things and recording a video and also you are quite short and not many people will watch it because it's too specific or too general. Yeah. Any questions from the audience. And no, not in the chat box. I don't know if you want to give people the opportunity to unmute themself and use the raise hand functionality so we can see if there's questions. Meanwhile, I still have a few more questions. I think are interesting. So if you want to ask something you can use the raise hand button on the lower left of your screen. And then you, I can, I can tell you to unmute and you can ask a question verbally. So meanwhile, I have another few remarks I really like your idea of the stack overflow kind of functionality where you have a question and answer on your web platform. I use tech overflow a lot like many people. It's for people who don't know it it's a nice platform where you can ask questions. Normally on software, and that people can answer those questions but people can rate the question and the answer so you always get close to a good answer to see first the answers that get a high rating works really well. And there's some more and more about that. The other thing that you mentioned is also very important share the best of your knowledge as open educational resources, because people think indeed it's free so it's crap. But if we look at our business model you want to show the best stuff to the potential audience that might also want to engage with you in in projects with budgets. I think that's a really good point to take home is you should not just put that materials out there, which are not well designed or, you know, it's about creating the experience also something that you mentioned I think it's very important people need to feel confident that with you as an expert and then you can see it on social media that you're engaging with the community that you're an expert. It's all part of the whole landscape that you create around those materials. Yes, you have to to give. And I learned that I didn't learn that on my idol, I don't geology or my idol courses I learned that on the conference of with media. Good. I never learned. Okay, how can you engage your users you have to give the best I mean this but we were not. I mean, you have a lot of experience in researching tools for your platforms and so on me as well, but nobody, nobody took classes on that I mean we have to learn by your own how to develop a website followers and how to develop channels and so on. I think in the future maybe could be some guidelines when right now is like the wild west of what you do, how can you do things and how can you reach people and you. And as I told you you can do a lot of benefits, maybe you can do a lot of harm as well. If you deal with it in a very practical way we discussed it last night about okay if you look for information on open educational resources there are many things are very theoretical or come from the education background. Well we are more the people who figure it out by doing and finding our way in what is then the best way to do that. Because the theory is also important but I think learning by doing in this sense is also very important and therefore I think what we present is what what we learned. But for other people that might be different or they can come up with different challenges or different opportunities also that we didn't even see so they will be also good to learn about. Yeah, I think that there is a lot of opportunities to develop and I would like to have more tutorial more websites because imagine that there were two websites doing tutorials on groundwater modeling. Like it will be like something that is great is the challenge in between websites and to say okay I did that oh you did that I did that. So and this is people will see that people sees people watch people comment and we are happy on that because we know we can reach further audience I mean we you can reach people and say oh I was looking at your videos and this where they save me. Okay, you say they save me I want to put you on the reference of my thesis. Yes, maybe it was not the idea. But the. Well, do you know because they told you know but sometimes they don't they yes, it's something that you have to assume that is happy. There are lots of assumptions of course. Are there any questions from the audience from the learning team. Maybe yourself. I have a question yeah. Yes. I was wondering. So, first of all, thank you very much for your presentation very insightful. And I was wondering if you could say something about how, how you, how you started how do you get into this type of product development this interest. Because I'm sure that you, you did not start straight away with the way the website. Or maybe you did. Yeah. And the, the history is that I wanted to, I am a groundwater modeler groundwater modeler is a very individual type of guy. I mean, you, there are not many groundwater model. So I wanted to teach groundwater modeling, because if you want to teach groundwater modeling you have to teach some hydraulic concepts GIS. And this is the main reason of doing this in person in person because at the beginning was not online was to develop the material for these courses. But the topic about posting them online was because was because I want to, to teach intermediate stuff. I mean, not the basic stuff I wanted to teach intermediate stuff. So I wanted to, to give intermediate courses and making some material on the basic courses in Spanish that happens. But in the end, as a well on the challenge of open education is to give intermediate courses is really hard. People are most mostly stuck on the basic stuff. So, and, and I think that most of the education in open education will be only, and this is more critical than will be basic stuff. I mean basic stuff about some modeling software also methodology. So it's same for for the GIS stuff that the bulk of the people still need to good basic stuff. And there's a part that is disappointed that you don't go into the advanced things but yeah that's the basics are super important in our work. Good, good practice to good foundation. Yeah. And sometimes I give advanced tutorial, not. Well, we're trying to reach maybe the 10% of all the followers because like for a single follower and I am talking another language I mean it's not completely outreach. Great questions in the in the chat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a question from Raquel from the IT learning team. She asks, any tip on how to make it for motivate more traditional teachers to reduce amount of content and share it open. Oh, I think to make shorter clips. I'm not sure if that's meant, but of course, the main question is how do you motivate them to share stuff openly. It's really hard. It's strongly hard. I mean, like, for me, it's like the same of groundwater modelers that use commercial software turning into open software. It's like it's behavioral. It's, I mean, you, you need that the classroom. You need maybe you need situation like this quarantine in order to change of the approach because teachers are I really think that teachers are on the comfort zone. They are really, they want to teach their class they have their materials and say why I don't give this online. And maybe they are afraid that if this online they will require less from the teacher. That's indeed a good one. I think that a good solution is motivation. You have to give them motivation. And once you're in, it's easy to stay motivated because if you look at nice comments nice feedback that you get from from people that that's like dopamine it's like chocolate it's like you need to fall in love with the work you're doing so that's but the problem is getting into that mode and providing things and then increase that amount. There's a addition from Laura quack from the communication office of it she delved. She says from a comes perspective, you need to show successes that others have made by doing so. Thank you. Always helps. And there are two other questions made by Eric without cam or Mike. Okay, thanks for the addition. He says, I think it is most interesting that you both see open education as part of a business model, where you have more expensive other products that make this possible. Is that the only possible business model for open courses, or do you also see other options. I think there's always other business models possible, but this is just one that that I always work with which is not even one that that I think everybody works with. Another possibility of having having open educational resources is not to drag people into your more expensive courses but it can even be just about being personally recognized as an expert, or putting people into using your software, for example, there's also commercial software providers that provide free courses to drag people into paid licenses. We don't do that, of course, because we find that's not the right thing to do. But there can be many other reasons for offering free stuff. Because you know, also, and Eric knows that to an outsource world, there's nothing really free. There's always something meant with free. Nothing like a free lunch. For us, we wanted to develop, we were thinking in developing some online platforms, like platforms to do special analysis, water chemistry analysis and so on. And to sell some kind of license or like to doing our own groundwater modeling software. So far, this, this topic of posting tutorials and sending courses very is quick. I mean, you, you develop something quick while, you know, while if you want to send a license can take more time. And then you need more people and then you have to share, you have to to charge more I mean will be more expensive the product that you have. That's a good point. Yeah, the open educational resource are really low level in the sense that it doesn't cost much to set it up. Yeah, there was one more question from Eric. Okay, he asks, you mentioned the five minute max for millennials. So how do you get more advanced stuff to them. Well they're very good multitaskers so just pocket everything in five minute pieces and they will watch many five minute pieces from their phone. It's just the contrast between long full lectures of two times 45 minutes that we normally have. And just cutting it into specific learning objectives specific topics that are just a few minutes and point them to the next one so they can have a break. Yeah, I have a lot of jobs and get back to to learning little stuff and then they do it as synchronous in the time that they like. And if they, yeah, that's also how they watch Netflix. Yeah, I haven't, I haven't. I haven't been with an audience of that is devoted on the five minutes I mean for me. I think that I have done maybe three tutorials that are less than five minutes but I release could spend one hour. Well, it means that less people will see my videos but and I think that the people that see are more committed. It depends a bit. So it's if you do a webinar, they can be quite long like this one. And they are well attended people keep the attention because it covers a specific topic and people subscribe and they know what they're going to. We see, of course a dropout rate of at least 4050% also here 169 subscribers that 21 people in now of which probably 10% from IHE. If I look at the statistics from my YouTube channel you also get the values of how long people watch your videos five minutes is long. Normally they stay one and a half minutes to three minutes. I can I can share those statistics too. If you check your metrics from YouTube you see that nobody stays or nobody like 99% stays three minutes or less. Yeah, it will be. Yes. For webinars it's perfectly okay to have a bit more time with a with a nice little crowd it's really interested like like the ones we are now still with and don't get bored of us. Okay, well there's a comment from Oscar Herrera. I believe he knows you so. He gives a comment to Raquel's earlier question saying, also you cannot reduce the content of the courses in order to properly use it with the online learning. It is possible to run a tutorial on how to apply hack rush. For example, for flood extension modeling, but you cannot explain the sun final equation. I hope I pronounced it correctly. But it's it's about some things you can't cut in pieces, you know, it's doesn't make sense so still common sense is of course important. If your topic is to work walk through full model or to do the Sentinel equation derivation and you need to take your time for that. And also the question if then online or open educational resources are the perfect way and which form with many things also I discussed it with so before yeah people also have to do some work themselves by learning it so interactivity is important. For example, for groundwater modeling, they want to do a model and say, but do you know hydrogeology, and they say, maybe they are more deep into developing something like to know in the basics know and this is a, this is a gap. We can recommend this. Okay, maybe you have to take some hydrogeology stuff. Maybe you have to improve that. Maybe they will follow your advices but some cases no I mean like people want to, for me, people appear and say, Okay, I have three weeks to the end of my thesis and I have to develop a groundwater flow model. And I say, I'm sorry, I mean there is no way there is no course there is nothing I mean you have to be realistic. So what you asked is completely unfeasible know, like, yeah, maybe this this is this commentary is kind of an education say okay you have to be focused, and you have to measure your capabilities and your times, in order to do something. And maybe we are educating in this way. I see the same with face to face. So I often get the question for tailor made trainings, can you do one day Python and one day QGIS. You have to refuse those things you know because you have a very experienced audience that already knows how to program and knows the basics of GIS it can maybe be useful but most of the times it's not and you only get annoyed that many people miss the basics. Okay. So also time is up Hans and so I don't know if you want to if you have some final closure words. I would like to personally thank so a lot for his very nice presentation and insights in how he works with Atari labs and also to be with us at this very early morning for him. Thanks to you some virtual applause. And I really hope that in the future we will cooperate more and that we can also organize courses together we know that it's on our wish list so let's make it happen as soon as we see opportunity for that. Really thank you Hans. Something great about these open, open courses because like you reach very interesting audience and very interesting people. And I'm really happy for that for knowing people like Hans for no other people that along the, along the way. I know you from, I know you and then you, in the end, this is a rich human experience. Okay, it's not so online as you, as you can, as you might think. Another topic of the open, the open education that means online education is open online education is, it can complement really well with in person education and in person experience as well. And if you that happens for us here in Lima and around Latin America, you gave some in person experience and people will follow you more online. And this is another link between the two. Yeah, there is a link in between the two and you have to strengthen both the online and in person. And we hope that we can develop more, more things with your institution. Thank you for the opportunity as well. Well, let's, let's see that the, that our things will be, when things are different from now, maybe we can do some more interesting things today. Thank you. Thank you also all the attendees and thanks for, for engaging with us. We'll post the video online you'll be updated about that. Keep in touch. Have a great day or night wherever you are in the world. Okay, see you. Bye bye.