 Alright, thanks for staying with us now on the 21st of July 2019, Oregon State Ministerial nominee Dr. Bassoon Tijani posted a tweet that was dug up during the ministerial screening on Saturday. Senator Buhari, while questioning the nominee, read the exact tweet that had gone viral saying Nigeria is a bloody, expensive tag to have against your name. Leave patrocism for a minute. That tag is a bloody waste of energy. A second foreign passport isn't sufficient to clean that scene. Tijani in response told the lawmaker that he made that tweet out of frustration over what he had experienced rather while trying to get a Chinese visa. He added that the second part read explicitly mentioned that for us to lift this country, we must find a way to correct our image to project a positive image because I don't want my two daughters to grow up to experience the same thing. So accepting the nominee's apology, Senate President Goss will apologize, who said we are all fathers and we cannot throw the baby away with the bat water. On behalf of the Senate, I want to accept your apology. Apart from what you said, what are your thoughts on Dr. Bosone Tijani's ministerial screening process? Please, let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 08-1-803-4663. So Jella, I'm just going to give you one minute each please because I want to bring in our guest. Let me hear your thoughts about the screening. What did you think when you watched it? Like literally? Like seriously? Really? Honestly? I think, I'm not very, I have no issues with the fact that the Senate decided to forgive his statement, but I think it was how they said it. It was the words they used, like, okay, y'all are childs, I don't know, it just didn't sound right. If you're going to, you know, let go of something like that for a sitting senator to have brought it up, it meant that it was a serious issue, and you must assume that that is also the thought of the people you're representing at the Senate, you understand? We sent you there to help us do the review process, you know, for the people who are supposed to take on their affairs of the nation. So if you're not looking at it, I just felt they just brushed it over, like, okay, you know what, whatever you say just suffices. I wasn't really, it didn't erupt off wrong. Uti and I think you were on that show when you guys discussed the relevance of this minister. Yeah, the screening. Yeah. So what are your thoughts? I don't know if you saw how far, how much you saw from the 40, 40 something minutes because I watched the complete video. But let me hear your thoughts quickly, Uti. Well, can you hear me? Yeah, go ahead. You can hear you. So this is the sins, the internet never forgets, and the sins of the internet, particularly social media, will come back to bite you. The process for me really was, I think they were lenient with him. They tried to take a stance. There isn't a law per se against what he did. So there isn't really a commensurate consequence for the action. I like the fact that it was brought up because I think more people need to see that. I often say that if you're going to criticize that, please choose your words wisely. So him trying to defend himself to say he spoke in anger, he spoke in frustration, remember that what you have written, right, once it's out there, it's out there and it's attributed to you for time and ages to come. So four years down the line, I mean, we've seen several other situations where people have been affected by this same, what I post on social media. The approach taken by the Senate, I like the fact that they didn't make a big deal out of it. Again, I come back to the comments that we made on the day. It depends on the portfolio that is being attributed to the person. If this person, for instance, tomorrow becomes the minister of communication, then this is a bigger problem for them, right? But if it's a different portfolio, perhaps not so much. So I like the fact that it came up. I wish that the focus on it maybe had been a bit more serious so that people, because if you go anywhere on social media, you see Nigerians constantly lamenting about Nigerians destroying and affecting the image of Nigeria. And one thing we must all understand is we are all part of the image of Nigeria. What you say as a Nigerian, whether you are, it is you or you think that it's only the leaders that matter, you are still painting a picture to outsiders, to other people, to the world, that this is what Nigeria is. And when you think about the situation that he talked about, when you think about the frustration because it was an experience and an embassy, embassies, the profiling of nations, of people, is not down to just the leaders as alone, it's down to the actions of the people when they go to those countries. We were just banned from satiations, were we not? It was the actions of everyday Nigerians like you and I. Same in other places across the world. These profiles are created not by our leaders alone, but by every single Nigerian that steps out of these shows and does the wrong thing. So when we when we talk about these things, we must understand and acknowledge that they are far reaching consequences. Right? And we must be careful what we post. And we must remember whether you don't agree or not. Just remember that the world is watching. OK. So be patriotic. If you're going to be frustrated, then position your frustration in the right way where we can all still be proudly Nigerian. But we talk about our challenges and more importantly, we talk about solutions in lots of complaining out there, not enough solutions. OK, so let me bring in our guest. Victor Okai is the former presidential candidate and the current president of the director's Guild of Nigeria, a seasoned producer, scriptwriter, cinematographer, director and film consultant. He is the founder and director of the In Shot Film Festival, the biggest short film festival in South Saharan Africa and a member of the Nigerian Oscar selection committee. And he's joined us via Zoom tonight to put his two cents inside this conversation because he is a lover of the youth and a friend of the youth. And I'm sure that he has a lot of things to say. Thank you so much, Dr. Victor Okai, for joining us this evening. Thank you for having me. All right, so this conversation is quite interesting because I watched a few things outside of this tree that I have read out. There was one part where he called the Senate people morons that we have to find a way to get them out of the house. And I didn't particularly enjoy the fact that at the end of the conversation, the Senate, the people, the members of the Senate Senate House, they were focused more on trying so hard to learn the image of the president to see that. Oh, he's a forgiving father. He's a loving father. In case you did not know, this guy was an answers protester and they picked him out. And yet they still nominated him because he looked beyond the answers to see his competencies and all of those things. So for me, I think a lot of times when opportunities like this come, there are deeper issues that I thought, you know, they should have found a way to drive home their points because like Uti rightly said, I mean, I think you also mentioned that the image is for all of us. It's not really for a particular person. So everybody has a stake. Everybody has a part to play. But let me hear your thoughts, Dr. Victor Okai. Did you watch this particular screening because I took my time to go and watch it. I watched it like three or four times. And let me hear your thoughts on this. And this is speaking to two sets of people, the young generation. That's us and speaking to the leaders, right? I mean, what would you say you would say to both parties watching this particular screening? Like Ella, right now, right before I get out. That's from the one hand. Secondly, it's important that when you criticize, that these issues are not that much, they always help because if I come back to home, she'll buy you some more. But thirdly, I think I'm very important. We should be able to, you know, stand by what they see and, you know, be man enough to test what they have said in the manner of speaking. For me, I think Dr. Sidani just lost his voice. And by it as well. And I see him going into that, into government now as someone covered, beaten, and who may not be able to speak. I don't know if you'll be, I don't know how. Yes, it's very common in innovation, but I've seen a weakness that even the civil servants might take advantage of. I remember there was a time when we were going to a ministry to currently do as much as the civil servants allow you to. Yes, the great leadership, I mean, studied leadership and all that, and I hope and I wish him well. I hope that when he gets to whatever ministry to stand to, that he's able to balance his ideas with the ideas of the people there. And with what has happened and the way he allowed the Senate to intimidate him, I also fear that for those who have oversight functions, you will feel forever indebted. And not the, I remember all the cost of my life was the late Aishwarya, let's say so, who was the fierce critic of the Mabangira government and when he was given to go back to home. And at the end of the day, you have to apologize to the president because the rules that were taken, people did not give back and he expected the president to deal with him. I don't know, but you can see that this is how it is in government. We are the little criticize. Now, Dr. Tijani occupied a very important space and among the youth and the new generation, because of what is your innovation, technology and what you represent. And I think it was a very important voice, whether directly or indirectly. And Sass himself stood for something that was, I mean, was it naturally, and to go back, it was about the youth having it up to here. How do I mean, he is in a sector where people work with laptops with phones and they're able to do business. Their offices are basically on the phone, on the laptop, and they were being victimized unnecessarily by Sass, the special development spot, the Nigerian police spot. And so that protest was justified because in the end, government had to do reform. It may have gone, it may have ended badly because of the way things went, but the objective of that protest was, it had its merits, it wasn't without its merits. And so that fight was justified, and all the young people were fighting to liberate themselves and some of the authority had said, not is enough. We represented new generation, a generation that does honestly have to operate with bricks some more time, but right in the virtual space with our phones and with technology, you know, and he knows it better than most of us. And so the things he was talking about were right, but that day, although I tried to, you know, I heard when it was somewhat transparent. I think what we should have, that appalling mistake, to be able to put across the grievances of the youth, he may apologize on some points to say, okay, maybe my choice of language was wrong, but my argument, what I was arguing about. I choose, I would not apologize for, you know, some of the things that, you know, that I was called the issues, because I think he tried to put context to some of those texts, and he could see that his anger was very justified. You know what, let's quickly go on a very short break, right? When we come back from that break, I would continue the conversation, because I have a follow-up question for you, boss. Stay with us, we'll be right back. All right, thanks for staying with us. Thank you, just tuned in. We're having a review on the screening, ministerial screening that took place on Saturday for Dr. Bosung, Tijani, and we have with us Victor Volkai. Now, please remember you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to us with 1-803-4663. You can also see that that's on the way show, I've come on the hashtag, way show. All right, so I just wanted to quickly point out something, you said, and I've come to you, Diola and Uti. You know, you mentioned something around Thaisholary, and again, I've heard this argument several times. They've said that, you know, governments, when they really want to, like, you know, just rubbish your brand, you know, they give you an appointment, right? And it seems like with this already, it's almost like this person has been clamped, you know, crippled, because this is supposed to be one of the strongest voices for the youth, and I believe maybe that's where the agitation of the youth is coming from. We've seen people like, like, okay, let me not mention them, but there were some people that were very vocal, you know, talking and everything, as soon as they got ministerial appointments or they got government appointments, they became, you know, it was like, so I'm just trying to ask, is there something inside this government that, you know, like, literally, they are not welcoming to constructive criticism or people actually just, you know, telling them that, guy, this thing is wrong, you know, let's do it this way, let's do it that way. Is this something that, because I don't understand for the life of me why we have a government that is almost like a rubber stamp. We can all not agree on the same thing. Literally, I would want you to tell me that you are wrong on this matter and stand your ground. Give me points and tell me, okay, this is, these are my X, Y, Z points, why I believe that your summation is not correct. But I don't think the government, generally, and this is not even sticking to this particular government, any government in Nigeria, I don't think they are actually open to criticism, because if not, if you've chosen this person, except you just want to use it as a show, because the captain, like I got enunciated with those, oh, the president is a loving father, is a forgiving father, so what was the point? You read the guy's resume, you saw that this guy had done exceptionally well especially in the tech world, right? So what was the point of all of those things bringing him back to it and now talking about baby and the bath water? Do you people really want a change? You want us to change the situation or you just want people to just shut up? That's what you want. Okay, would that be for me or for... Yes, for you, I'm talking to... Okay, so, you know, they're just saying that our people say that it is bad manners to talk while talking. I don't know if you know what I mean. I know what you mean. When people get into government and such a thing, they cannot talk anymore. I think that Borsou is, if you'll excuse my saying so, ordinarily, he's even bigger than that point. But that job, his accomplishment, his pedigree and what he has been able to singularly accomplish by himself, it could be a consultant to all African nations. His coming into government should be like a favor to the government. And that's why I was embarrassed personally by the way he was doing it. I think he was making him a favor. He would not have lost anything if he had worked out exactly what he had held high. Like I said, I'm just afraid for him because going forward, those who may have oversight functions of his ministry, when they begin to insert and remove things from his budget and begin to make demands, he may not have the moral justification to talk. Unfortunately. So I think that Nigerians have lost another star. Maybe it's too early to say. But from what I saw there, I feel sad. He is too much. Even for that position, if you ask me, we should be begging him. But it is what it is. Maybe he felt, yes, it's an honor to serve. If I were offered a position like that, I may not turn it down because I'm going there to serve Nigeria, not to serve anybody. And if they don't want me to do it, they can't join or keep their job. Your goal there is to serve the country and to serve the people. But if you are going there to serve an individual or a couple of people that you're feeling you know grateful. So to say, I think it's a privilege and honor for them to give you that, then you will lose your voice. And people sometimes ask me the politician, once they detect that witness, again, at the rest of the time, like in the book of records, he would have lost it. I hope that he will be able to find his module and be able to assert himself now that he's been confirmed and focus on the job. And I hope that the president will provide the environment for him and the next week backing for him to do the job. I wouldn't be, I do not see him lacking in ideas. No, I do not see him, I think he will come with a lot of innovation in any case. That's what he had in his PhD. So I see a lot of that but would the environment allow him has he asserted himself to a point where he can have his way and bring the necessary reform? You feel recall someone like what I mean now, Poco Juewela. She was very, very upset when she was in government because of the technocrat, but she would not, I mean, she was very upset. And that's why she was respected. There were a few more like that, but what's her name now? When she was a minister, Dora Juewela, she was the only one when the president was sick and you know, there was a need to get the, what do you call it now? After the president died, I think I can't recall now. She, you know, it was at the President's Council meeting, it was for the ministers to be able to say, okay, let President Jonathan step in. The others were Lily Lever, they were afraid of the president's wife, but none of them, they let the president's wife, none of them could talk. But she was, excuse my choice of language, she was man enough to be able to take the move by the horse and move the necessary, if it like motion or take the move to ensure that the right thing was done. That's why it's important that when you get into government, let people know who you are and remain consistent. If you do that, you'll be respected. I think that the president chose him because of his boldness, not because of his loyalty. He chose him because he felt he could bring something to the table. And I think the sooner I realized that, the better. And I hope he can still maintain the respect he had in the community where he was coming from. Let me just allow the rest of the community. Okay, so for me, I think this presents an excellent opportunity for young people who want to serve, who want to bring politics and all that. And I like what the good doctor has said that you need to be known for something. So as young people, as emerging leaders, let me put it like that. We need to define who we are. We need to ask ourselves, do we want to be liked or do we want to be respected? There are two different things. Now, I know that again, the Nigerian political space is such that not very many people can boldly say that, oh, I was called to serve or I got into this position by virtue of my competences. Not many, not very many. A lot of them is, you know, you know how politics is in Nigeria and all that. And with that, that makes one think that this is like you're being called, this is like a gift to you. So you don't look at the gift giver in the face. You have to be subservient, more like, you know, to the gift giver. But if we get to a point where we define who we are, where we stand for something, where we understand that nation building is beyond being loyal to a personal person or, you know, trying to look good or trying to be politically correct. I think that we will begin to see change. We will begin to see people who can honestly say that, you know, what these are my beliefs, you know, this is my belief system and this is my... Let me come to you, Uti, then I'll come up to her, I guess. Uti, quickly. Uti, are you there? I'm here, can you hear me? Yes, you can hear me. You know, go ahead quickly. Yeah, I think I like the position that Dr. Victor has taken he's made some very salient points. And my position and what I would like to ask his view on is, so there is the technocrat. So first of all, we call today and we say, oh, in leadership, in politics, we don't have enough young people, right? Now here's a young person who has then been called up and we can see already the way I interpret this as this is not an inexperienced person from the place of having done great things. He's at the forefront of his industry, the tech space and all of that. But for me, what it clearly shows is a lack of experience, right? In the political space, in the type of person that you are, right? And the conversation between whether you're a technocrat, a bureaucrat, a politician and all of these things come into play because Dr. Victor said something that is very, very keen. You're going in as an appointed official into the public service where you are going to deal with career public servants and your success or your failure largely also depends on how you work with these people. Now, when you have shown that this is who you are in that kind of situation, how do you assert yourself? So I come back to what is the necessary experience? What is the weights of having political experience versus you being a technocrat in being able to actually be effective in an elected position? Okay, Dr. Victor, that's the question for you. Yeah, okay. So the thing is this, you need to be able to have a mix of both and what do I mean? Whereas you have your technical service, competition and all that, every person in a leadership position has to have a mix of facts, diplomacy and assertiveness or authority as well when you deal with colleagues, forces and subordinates. So all of that is very important. What I see in Borsum's case in this situation where I don't know, I don't know, I mean, you don't necessarily have to work with anybody and you can come out there and all that, but some public service appointment, like if you have served in your community like your town's union, where there's a lot of politicking as well. If you have served in your post-wrestling association, if you have served in your whether professional group or not, in leadership position, you begin to pick up some of these trees, they're very, very important. What it doesn't mean, I mean, if you as well as come in successfully, it also means that I'm in red leadership as well. Sorry Dr. Richter for cutting you short. I just wanted to say that even though if he has served, the community where he's coming from is purely, have you dealt with these tech guys, these Gen Z people? Somebody that I employ today say, I know they work again. They say, literally those guys, they don't have chill. The guys in the tech space, you understand? So would you think he'll be able to cope? Because I mean, when I'm here with his speak, right? The world, they are worlds apart. Right, in this our structure and the tech guys, like they are completely worlds apart. So how would he manage all that politics? He's respected in the tech space. He's well respected. He has been a benefactor to very many and has had a career of many. So quite a number feeling that it's with him. My problem is not those in Gen Z, those in the tech space. My problem is the civil servant. Some of that barriers we do to the culture point here. He has come in there with all the ideas and all that. This project, some of that, I just think we have to share money. In the road you come to, and remember, let me give you an example. What's her name now? She came from the World Bank. One professor. Adios. Adios. Adios you. Give me adios you. The Health Ministry. Health? Oh, Health Ministry. Ah, I can't remember that name. I can't remember. It doesn't look like I would be in South State or so. I have to remember that name. Very prominent name. I think we have developed a good school in the family. I can't remember the name now. We'll find the name out here. Go ahead with the story. How much? He came this month. Very innocent, you know. You don't deserve that time. You can only go money back to government. What do you say? So, in her naivety, they said, Madam, you know, they just, you know, they started to go into some sharing, popular and all that. I don't think she moved back to Parliament or whatever, but, you know, if you don't, if you're not properly guided and advised, and give certain approval about it, or you don't give the right approval and all that, you roll yourself into what was that. That was how the human career was. I mean, public service career was done. I mean, she was removed, you know. By civil servant. This one was innocent, but the very act itself was not innocent. They'll push things to you, and sometimes, you know, they get you to compromise. If you are not very firm, you compromise. Let me share, let me share an experience with you. Several years ago. Quickly, sir. I was, there was a personality project. I was doing with, I don't know much on the ministry on the part, and now I went, but where I went to, as soon as I got to that, I had to explain, there were two places where I called my baptism. The very first one, for me to just share the story, my little children, for example. The very first one, and this was good, but not my own. So it was the big deal, there's not this big force and, you know. So I got into, I got into this, ministry had already told them that I was coming. When I got there, the head of that particular speaker said we had a meeting somewhere here so I would like to please come in. Can you just quickly, sorry. No, I'll make it very, okay, let me leave that to talk about the second place. This is one that really, that was the biggest shocker. Let me not talk about that first experience and what it tried to do. But this second place, the second place I went to, the guy that I was in charge of, the PR department, when I was asking some questions, he said, do you want the real answer or the civil service answer? We'll leave it there. Same reaction. We will leave it there. When he said that, I said, what are you talking about? He said, which one do you want? That was the first time I realized that. There's a real answer. And? That can be too fast. Absolutely. It depends on whether they like you or they don't like you. It depends on whether you complete or not. They can present the right part or the wrong part. Oh my God. On that note. It's always a pleasure having you around. But sadly, we've run out of time. But thank you so much, Dr. Victor. Okay. Thank you, Uti. Thank you. I'm Adiola. This was a fantastic conversation. And we are hoping that Dr. Boston Tijani would truly make a wave. I mean, let him make a lot of impact whatever it is that he's been assigned to do based on his antecedents. Now, before we go, I show you follows across all social media handles and ways show Africa you can interact with us. Drop your comment and follow all our engagements on social media. We started our podcast on Spotify. So remember to follow, listen, like, share, and please share, share, share. That's all we're begging. I beg, just share. All right. So if you missed our quotes for today, here it is again. In anger, I tweeted what you read, which was paraphrased wrongly. And now I have a taste of what the youth do to you as well. If I would even touch this part. The tweet you read is just the first part of what you said or what you read rather. So this was from the ministerial nominee, Dr. Bosun Tijani. Now we'll see you guys tomorrow at 8 p.m. The ladies night out. We'll have a conversation. Great one to bring to your screen. Stay with us.