 We bring together African practitioners and policymakers to Asia, sit down and we discuss issues related to lessons learned, if you like, from best practices in Africa. For example, ecotourism is much more developed in Africa and compared to the situation in Asia where the orangutan conflict, if you like, is somewhat sensitive but also very pertinent and contemporary at this moment in time. So the three main subjects we've been looking at in terms of the policy implications of great ape conservation in Africa and Asia are the possibility of red plus co-benefits contributing towards conservation of great apes, issues of human wildlife conflict and thirdly, rather, ecotourism. We're now here in Kelamantan, looking at issues on the ground of how orangutans are being affected by land clearance, land conversion and efforts by national parks such as the Sabangan National Park, forest rehabilitation for orangutan conservation. And here we are in the Neuromanthang area where there are a number of islands where orangutans are being rehabilitated with a view to them being released into the wild. And so there's, again, a very interesting perspective from the African situation where wild, great ape tourism is very well developed and it's something that we're looking into promoting here much more as well. We started in 1999 coming out to do orangutan nest surveys just looking at the population of the peat swamp. At that time it was thought peat swamp forest was fairly depopurate in terms of biodiversity. There wasn't much here. This is not true, as you can see from all of our pictures. And now we have expanded beyond the orangutans. We're studying the both ape species that are here, the gibbons and the orangutans. We've been doing long-term ecological work, looking at forest restoration, regeneration, both natural and assisted. We have a long-term camera trapping project focusing on the clouded leopard, which is Borneo's largest predator. But also we're trying to study and understand better so that we're trying to look at this place, not just up from the focus of the large mammals, but trying to make a much more ecosystem-wide approach right from the small, short-lived species up to the long-lived orangutans. Here we have a lot of activities to study about orangutans, about damning and plotting. Sometimes we can see orangutans here, and it's the easiest to find orangutans when the time is right. The islands and other islands here are islands that we use for pre-release sites for the orangutan before they go to the real forest. For the first time, seeing an orangutan in its natural habitat was something exceptional. It's a unique experience. It feels like a valuable thing to get such a visit. Of course, our hope is that this visit will bring great benefits to the future, in connection with the development of the environment, especially in the rural areas, the rural areas of the country, and I am very proud of it. What is really important for me is that besides our workshop of exchanging with a different expert on mountain gorilla behaviour, tourism, eco-tourism, the good part of it was the fact that we went in the film, talked with the people, lived realities, and discussed about how appropriate we can probably do eco-tourism according to the reality of each of the countries, each of the species. Bringing together a practitioner, I think, has facilitated that process. It's been the most valuable. And you can see behind the camera, there are guys who practise orangutan conservation in Asia, exchanging experiences with guys who are doing the same in Africa. And that's the real value of these kind of workshops and seeing things in the field as we're doing now.