 And we're up And we're up It's been so long, you know a whole week without an e-fab. I don't know how people survive. I don't know how they do it You're almost at 100k. I am This usually streams knock off a few subscribers because obviously people are like what he streams That's not what I signed up for which is fine I'm just saying that uh It'll probably be about two or three days and then I will have reached 100k, which is Quite a thing. I'll probably have to do a stream of some kind celebrating I guess Also a Q&A. Who doesn't love Q&A's? Yeah. I I do love them Good only if there's good questions though Hello everybody. Oh, yeah, I've got to do icon now. That'll be the first time in e-fab that you can see it Thanks to the old fan art. I'm afraid people who follow the skull on wheels law are gonna have a little bit more difficulty Accounting for this one, but you can make it work and For all we know, you know, what is it called on a car when you have like the little is it like a hood ornament? You could argue that this is my hood ornament on the car and it's just really zoomed in so Yeah, yeah, fine Um Yes, it is it is me and rags this time around. That's probably the only if that will have just two of us Because I mean me and him could talk more than enough for like five people with this topic And then we've got loads of guests lined up and of course Most of you hopefully will have seen wolf's video and he's he's taking a break from YouTube It's undisclosed exactly how long he plans to but he'll happily come back to e-fab and Of course making videos on his channel. I imagine once um once he's sort of feeling a bit bit better about it. So Today we'll be continuing with Mr. TRO's video for we're not necessarily gonna complete the video We're gonna go for this is just part two and this may end up being the shortest e-fab considering the last one was six hours and Yeah, it was that's like It was really repetitious and there wasn't a lot of substance really in it We kept repeating ourselves over and over and it was sort of getting to the point. We're like, okay, can we So we'll go for I don't know a couple hours or whatever depends on what the video says I hope it's better than last I've I've actually heard because I haven't seen it But I've heard that they do actually talk about star wars, uh, like actual points in the film So we'll be able to respond to stuff like that Uh, yeah, first of all though We we decided to just check out the comment section And uh, I've got a selection on screen that me and rags are just gonna look through But we find interesting considering some of the things that have been said in the video um So I suppose if you want to start rags with this with the lord doom comment, is it? Yeah, of I think this is a good one to start out with This one Is bup bup bup bup, but this is by lord doom 10 Wow Just wow the level of unprofessionalism from rags is just inexcusable In exactly what ihu is complaining about concerning toxic behavior from those that didn't like the film So That's what we want to start out with because this one points out Just how toxic the behavior is from people who didn't like the film Because as we as we know It's not the people who did like the film who were being toxic and refusing debates So now that we've set the stage Let's take a look some of these are great. We'll scroll right to the top is it? Yeah pilot Rags is so smug. I want to slug him in the arm, but then he'd take my threat seriously Say so you respond to my opinions with violence and then try to dissect it for 10 minutes with strawman argument Well, here's the thing If I was to say so you respond to my opinions with violence That's not me taking your threat seriously. That's just me being a bit socratic I'm just asking you exactly. Why is that what you're why is that what you would think? Why is that what comes to your mind? Why would you even want to slug me in the arm? I don't think you're gonna do it I'm just asking you why do you want to do it should probably highlight the I hate everything's Premise for his video is that people are being a bit too, you know Over the top about the last Jedi and then TRO backs that up with as you can see With the last Jedi it's much more toxic than any other subject You must you have to admit that and it's like just with the subject of talking about rags as a youtuber We've already got a threat here And um, he'd be like, oh, I can't believe you're taking it as a threat What all I said was I'd punch him in the arm It's like, what do you think that is in real life if you punch someone in the arm? Do you think that people go? Haha, thank you for that. That's not really how that works There are tons of people that I don't like on youtube. I don't want to hit them The thing I don't even I don't even what have the desire to hit them. That's the thing But remember all of these all of this is based off of the idea that We're the toxic ones. I remember it's not like these upvoted comments, you know, these all have zero Oh 136, okay And it's not as blatant It's not like the actual comments said something as strictly as I just want to punch him, you know Lucky, we have no comments like that. Do you want to move on to the next one? Yeah, so next uh my spots would I just want to punch that smug dog All right So 45 at least 45 people Want to punch me so we're up to almost 200 people want to punch me which is which sounds about right Which sounds about Beholder says I used to like rags, but god. He's so pretentious and narcissistic They call me joe. Well, I mean maybe a little I don't know about pretentious though I mean like people some people call me arrogant. I'll be like, yeah, I'm a bit arrogant. That's right. I'm a little arrogant Yeah, I'm a little arrogant narcissistic Yeah, sort of most most of it is just like the character people who talk to me Either irl or in discord or stuff. I I'm pretty easygoing. I'm a really easygoing guy the difference between assert assertive and aggressive It's like How do you tell the difference? It's like, well, I mean most people would like to say they're assertive rather than aggressive But you can see aggressive has a more negative connotation than assertive. Yeah um To be fair someone in the chat said to be fair you were pretentious as in you had the pretense of being right That was very true and then I followed through on it And then we made the six hour stream a week ago. Yes, and then we wanted to just die Next up they call me jojo says I never watched rags prior to this But okay, so we very learned but the way How he the way how he talks already makes me dislike him. All right I don't know. He sounds like the type of person who would treat others like pure shit for not sharing his own opinion While doing it with a smile on his face. Oh, so I'm friendly Yeah, at least you got that I'm friendly. Yeah, I'm a nice guy. We we can disagree about things. That's all right Besides after all it's not moller and I here are the ones who say That you're not allowed to have a certain opinion or that you can watch movies the wrong way or things like that Uh lucky says good ol rags His ego seems super high in the sheer amount of hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness is astounding Maybe that will maybe that will be pointed out to us. Hmm. We'll get there at some point. That's gotta be in the video somewhere I'm sure it's there somewhere Kane ken edgy says rags is an annoying entitled contrarian pc elitist I don't know about contrarian damn your pc days, man. They just Yeah, I still get yeah, I'm still getting flak for the pc videos Um, I don't know about contrarian though. I would want some follow-up on how I'm contrarian Yeah, I mean sometimes I'll play the devil's advocate just to like get what people are trying like why they think the way they do But that's just so I can learn the way they you know, how their thought process works I don't really think I'm contrarian. I haven't found you to be contrarian, but then again Maybe I'm biased because I'm your friend Oh, but buddy as someone says at some point. I can't remember if that's in this list or not, but hey um People like rags are the reasons we can't have opinions anymore. So uh Rags is is a part of this effort to prevent people from having opinions. So Thanks rags for that. You've ruined it. You've ruined the internet. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to ruin it It just happened. I'll go. I'll watch that in the future. Look at this one rags is an idiot and that's an objective opinion Hey So so good top meme Uh rags opinions are aligned with the average 11 year old on the internet. He follows the mob mentality and nothing more It's strange. Um I would be curious what opinions, um Are of the average 11 year old on the internet or what gives that impression. Yeah, but as for the mob mentality I don't know like I I've definitely changed my mind about things I've had my mind change about certain things and you know, there's probably an opinion me and rags hold that 11 year olds do hold possible Someone I I think what's interesting when it comes to the last Jedi. I don't know I don't think either side is the mob mentality. I mean, maybe if you make your opinion For a certain reasons, it's a mob mentality, but there's I mean, there's two there's two pretty well-established camps As to if you know, if it was a good quality or a poor quality film I wouldn't I wouldn't say Just because you necessarily are on either side that's because of a mob mentality Well, like we can just throw this out straight away. Like when you what do you think of the last jedi? Honestly rags I do not think it was a good film. Well Too bad because apparently that's what the mob is saying right now, which means you're just following the mob I guess Um to sum it up rags is being a cynical Nitpicky self-righteous self-entitled know-it-all toward ihs views on the last jedi Claiming that his views are the true reality of things and ihs opinions aren't actually opinions that matter That's interesting. I'm sorry that you got that impression from my video I just don't remember you saying those things. That's all that's where I'm lost I'm I don't either But I am certain be on the shadow of a doubt that it will be elaborated upon later Let's change your minds But I'm sorry that you got that uh view from my video though. This isn't this isn't a comment on my video. This is a comment on Me through the lens of toro Well, the way that video is structured is very unusual I think you should start to notice like the reason we're responding to these is like wow, you know like this is quite the um Quite the picture that's been painted of rags to make all these people say these things Like especially the one that was like I've never even seen rags before but he's clearly this it's like Yeah, it's very odd Let's see. We already talked about lord doom talking about the toxic behavior behavior from those who didn't like the film so yeah And then we got politically incorrect says has rags commented on or responded to this video in any way shape or form I wouldn't know if he saw it And apparently moller my butt buddy For which we are And he said yes So it's official um moller did and had the audacity to criticize this video the audacity Imagine thinking that other people are pretentious and self-righteous and narcissistic But they have the audacity to criticize the video It's very strange. We're not we're not really getting like this cohesive picture That's just embarrassing to be catching yourself saying that you require like massive audacity to criticize some things Like oh dear. Yeah, we should we should encourage people to criticize stuff Even if it's from people that we enjoy or whether it's low hanging fruit or high hanging fruit, you know Or however deep we want to get I think that one of the positive aspects of the last jedi is that it does Act as kind of like a conversation starter to get people talking about film quality Yeah, really looking into you know, good criticism of a film And you just just instead of reading out the entire thing It just he skips down to uh, what's sad about moller is that if anyone questions anything that he and his friends do He challenges them to a stupid debate. I mean, it's like dude grow the fuck up. Can you imagine? Can you imagine wanting to debate people and having a discussion with people? It's just sad I mean the way the other debates, I mean to be fair So far the other debates that you've you and wolf and myself and everything that we've had with people um Maybe if I'd seen those I wouldn't be so ready to jump into one either Well, they've been civil. They've just they were civil. Yes. They were civil They've just it's it's kind of like one side is usually unprepared And obviously me and wolf no last jedi back to front. So when People walk in unprepared it can come across as almost like why was this debate taking place? But every time they're always just uh impromptu. They always just they just happen They were never planned. Yeah, and it's even even the uh, not so great debate was good because You get him to think about You know the wise it's like we it's it's almost like it's not It's not so important what you think of the film. It's how did you get to that? How did can you explain how you got to that point? Right, and yeah, just it's just highlighted the bottom two uh Sentences from the next one um bottom two Let's see. Uh, oh, I'll read the whole thing. Uh rags is just another dipshit youtube skeptic And those are in caps damn Who uses the same method of arguing with normal people as he does with irrational fat blue haired feminist And that method simply does not work with normal people. What does that even mean? I don't know what that method? I don't know what that method actually means um I hope he's not referring to the socratic method because that would be embarrassing. It's like it doesn't work on normal people Because i've gone unlike the non sequitur show and stuff and I just ask people questions Because that it reveals a lot about the way people think and how they get to their positions Um, but again, when will these skeptics learn that not everyone is a natus archesian? And it is possible to disagree with people without having to extrapolate insidious meanings behind every statement that you disagree with I personally don't like the last Jedi However, ihc's video on it is perfectly valid as it's from the opinion of someone who did enjoy it and he explains why he liked it Not really sure. Um, we'll let that go. Yeah Whereas rags and mollar act like their opinions are facts that can't be argued against and any opinion that doesn't align with theirs Is objectively wrong How arrogant self aggrandizing and smug do you have to be to act like your opinion on a piece of entertainment is the only opinion That's valid And I don't recall ever saying that. Yeah, you could tell that That that almost feels like it was like quintin saying it which again. Yeah, I think I think speed boost has The only knowledge he may ever have of you or I is what he has heard from quintin. Yeah He doesn't actually know Anything about us or what we think But he thinks that he knows because maybe somebody else said it that he likes or agrees with Or he's just been convinced of it or he's just kind of accepted it for bad reasons it's really a shame when People say this stuff over and over And it simply isn't true. This is just stuff. We've never said in fact during our e-faps. And this is number nine. I believe Countless times we've responded to videos and those videos Constantly do the things that we are getting accused of And we have to argue against those things We argue against the things that people say that we do What a shame What a shame This is the this the last yet. I hate train Made me realize that there are a lot of content creators like rags that is sonard wolf moller and er Who love to insult everyone who has a different opinion and pushes their politics into everything See I feel like they could have just switched out any of the names and people would have just agreed Because like clearly they don't watch my stuff if they think I push politics into all my videos because it's One of the principles of my channel Yeah, you're very apolitical wolf does sometimes I do sometimes um I think that when you Look at the last Jedi you can definitely take away some political messages I think that they're pushing something political in the film I'd like to avoid saying whether or not I approve of the politics that they're actually Pushing but let's be honest. They they have there's quite an anti capitalist message in kanto bite, which is like, okay Because you know, you're not going to catch me in rags saying the capitalism is flawless But it's just like, okay, that's there. We can see that an anti animal cruelty. It's like that's obviously I don't think you'll find many people disagreeing with that as a policy But you know, yeah, there's not there's not a really big camp. That's pro animal cruelty. That's the thing which makes you wonder why bother Um, I guess they really wanted to let it's almost like it's a cheap thing. You know, it's like an orphanage or something Well, yeah, especially with the slavery aspect They break out the animals but leave the kids behind. It's like, oh, very strange Um, well the kids could grow up to be capitalists Well as we know from the end of the movie those slave kids are going to be the new jedi Use their broomsticks and save the world Probably feel dumb for leaving them behind um Pushes their politics. Yeah, I I I don't think that's true at all and if anything I think we've seen a lot of politics from people who defend it a lot of them will defend it based off of political Look, um, that's bullshit said he's watched every one of my videos and he doesn't know where I lead politically Exactly Yeah, yeah, that's the thing Mahler's so Mahler's very apolitical But you know, you make a video criticizing black panther And that's like people take that as a political stance if you don't like black panther It is a and I don't buy the bullshit that everything is political I don't I don't buy into that. Oh, well, it's the same as everything is subjective It's like let me just give you one statement that's apolitical. Uh, the last jedi is a movie Like uh, oh Yeah, I I I don't I don't follow the line of reasoning that because any creator Has political opinions or they live in a certain political climate that it must necessarily Have an actual effect on every piece of media that they produce without exception I definitely don't buy that and if it was true and everything was political Then it's pointless to say it because it wouldn't even matter. Why have a word for it? Um, it just seems so watered down and pointless, but that's a discussion for another time. Maybe I'll explore it later Um, I think extra credits did a video on it. Um, but we'll see Charles Guy or G I says, thank you guys so much for this very cathartic for me I'm a fan of both rags and Mahler I'd have lost a huge amount of respect for both of them for letting their hatred of a film Distort how they perceive objective reality That's a very interesting. I I see it as a reverse, but hey sure That is a very interesting thing to say Um, I disagreed so much with rags logic and malicious nature in that video Well, I give as I you know, I Get If you're malicious then what is quintin in this video? Yeah, that's that's very strange On top of the huge amount of hypocrisy he showed that it led to my first youtube comment I was compelled to call out that bs even if not as well articulated as this lull Well, I don't think that not being as well articulated as the right opinions video here I don't think that's too much to be ashamed of Yeah, I know in his top comment even I apologize this for the editing in the music And I was like, oh wow, actually I guess he knew about it, but he did sort of change it Yeah Um Guillermie and berleys I guess Guillerm Berleys. Oh the last one, right? Yeah, which is am I the only one that noticed TRO did pretty much every single thing he accused rags of doing in this video, you know Guillerm You aren't the only person who noticed that You aren't the only person who noticed that it's funny because that's the only comment from six days Basically, that's the only comment post efap the rest of them before they anyone saw us Actually respond to it. Oh except for the four minutes. No, that's not four minutes. It's four months Yep, all of them are from before so like We're injecting a little bit of sanity into this comment section by responding to the video and uh, I think the takeaway The takeaway is not only is um It proof that basically any comment section anywhere on the internet is going to have horrible shit to be able to snap Just like I hit everything snapped But uh secondly me and me and rags have found comments that the lowest you'll get is like 10 upvotes, but some of the highest are like nearly 200 And they're all very negative towards rags as character and some of them want to punch him So it's like what's interesting too is that they write opinion finds comments in his video to use as evidence that Are months old and have no Upvotes no one has seen them. Nobody cares about them And here we are with comments that actually, you know have some traction in the video at least I think if anything the comment section of the right opinions video was that Some people will clap at anything Well, my theory is that it's acted as a lightning rod against you for people who don't like you in a similar way that um Again, I think you're right. Yeah, I like cinema sends sends a lot But like his video acted as a lightning rod for people who just don't like me I don't even know if they care about my black panther video. They just don't like me And so they're like, oh, you know what a video criticized and I'm sure let's go for it Yeah, I get that impression a lot. I think that um I think they just sort of latch on to it I wonder how much actual thought went into the listening process of what was being said Because when you actually listen to it, it's really bad Anyway, we were I believe 51 minutes So we'll we'll pick it up out around there And uh, see how it goes. We'll try and be a little bit more liberal this time and let the video play a bit more But I mean We should have covered most stuff if they end up repeating it like we'll just say Please see the previous part if you want to see us respond to the the accusation every time that we don't let people have opinions Yeah, as long as new stuff starts popping up. We'll probably keep on rolling. Mm-hmm All right, you ready Rex? Oh, I'm I was born ready Excellent and yeah, I'll uh, if if Rex wants to have a toilet break at any point or if uh, we just take a break I'll I'll read the super chats, but um for now. We'll just let Carry on since we're 24 minutes in that's not so bad considering we've only been talking about the actual stuff So yeah, I'm proud already detail on bungee's new entry in the hugely popular destiny franchise You made a 49 minute video review of destiny 2. Yeah, just to clarify. This is his music, right? Oh, yeah, I don't use music. Yeah, I was gonna say I don't remember using music And it's just like why I very rarely use music And it's at the like maybe the very beginning and then it trails away Or at the very end For like like the last moments of the video, but I don't have Generally music Going over what I'm talking about especially if it's not especially if it's like this music like no And like it might be because we've Watched this video so so detailedly, but like that music is grinding on my brain like the It's like oh my god It's and don't confuse us We're not this isn't like a criticism of any points he's making We're just saying if you make videos don't have music like this in the background as you're talking Just throughout the whole it's really it's annoying like just appreciate the quiet just because there's Not music doesn't mean there needs to be music To where you admit to being nitpicky about it and countless countless hours must have been spent Editing compiling all of that footage putting your thoughts together and making those into a movie But if you watch the destiny 2 video for his evaluation He takes into account the context and intent that he says is being ignored in this video Nitpicking for fun is fine. I don't think many are gonna dispute that as long as you come to a conclusion That doesn't rely on them alone. I would love to know why not why can't First off nitpicking hasn't been defined So he might be talking about two completely different things But if a movie is full of nitpicks and those nitpicks pile up and pile up and pile up Then eventually you're going to get to a breaking point or that point is it depends on the individual viewer Some people can put up with a lot of them Some people can't put up with a lot of them, but that's up to each individual person to determine I'm not sure about it Nitpick is still a problem I'm not sure about his counter there as well because like from what I just gathered you you basically just point out I had everything's complaining about x and he does x in his destiny 2 video simple And then tRO responds with yes, but that was his intent to do that in this video and not in the stars videos Like that doesn't count to what rex said. Yeah, I I I'm curious to how that counters it I'll be like me saying, you know, I intend to Share that killing people is wrong and then tomorrow I intend to kill people the intention matters If you're if you're a channel like cinemasins And maybe you go into a video thinking that your criticisms will be funny Ha ha ha I make laughs, but also a lot of those criticisms are actually Solid and sound ones Then your intent doesn't really matter I mean, you just point out a hypocritical perspective. You don't it doesn't matter what if his intention was to be hypocritical You would still be accurate Yeah, it's weird. It's very oh why your Your nitpicking of destiny 2 is completely justified But anybody else's criticism of a movie that you liked is absolutely not helpful unacceptable not constructive A casual observer might perhaps call you a hypocrite for saying such things just because something is long doesn't mean that It preoccupies itself with only nitpicks. I didn't say that. I didn't say that I didn't say that I said the video had a lot of nitpicks in it and and I didn't I didn't even you have to say that you'll prove that video, right? Yeah, and I like the destiny video. That's the thing. I like his destiny video I was pointing out that IHE points out himself that he was being nitpicky Bizarre, I think they got the wrong impression of you with the destiny video just to clarify for anybody who's confused rags likes I hit everything's destiny video. He thinks it's good. His destiny video was really really good I really like it and as someone in the Comment says yeah, it does it does get tired Pointing out all these inconsistencies It is a little exhausting. That's why we're probably not going to go six hours Well, it's the thing I get the impression just a little bit right but if you were told rags argue against somebody No matter what they say and then they go, uh, the sun is a star and then you go It's only a star by definition of what books have been created in our current, uh, species history And you'd be like, you know, uh, yes That's kind of what I feel like TRO's video is it's like defend this at all costs Yeah, it's like that wasn't hard to agree with you on it's like, oh, yeah, he did do a video This essentially could easily you said even may perhaps you didn't say Definitively, but it's like I hate everything creates a video that could easily be be considered the video He's criticizing right now in his video and the thing that I find most interesting Is that I everything does admit this at the end of his video. He says that he's a part of the problem And that's the thing I don't I don't think necessarily I mean, I don't think nitpicks are bad I don't think they're part of the problem again. It hasn't been defined But if anything nitpick is it's almost like I think we talked about this last week Where a nitpick is what you call something that you agree with but you wouldn't kind of dismiss It's like, oh, that's that's just a nitpick. It's like, oh, something right But yeah, that's the thing nitpick usually means it's valid, but it's inconsequential something like that Yeah, it depends on who you ask and and whether or not you should talk about a nitpick It's just down to the people It's like, hey rags, you interested to find out in which scene in Lord the Rings You can see a car really far in the background and you'd be like, well That's a nitpick. You could say that I'd be like, I'm not saying it ruins the films I'm saying do you want to see it? It's kind of interesting to think about that there's a car there Yeah, it's obviously not an in-universe error. It's a it's a film. It's an editing error. It's just yeah I mean, maybe I mean that might be a good thing to talk about once nitpicks Everybody's got a different amount of interest in them Like someone having the wrong shoes in a scene some if you point that out to me with a screenshot and movie I love I'd be like, huh Maybe I can maybe I should tweak that out. I should be like when I say nitpick What comes to your mind, you know, or what what is a nitpick to you? Yeah, you could do like a poll have a couple of options. See what people mostly think Like Do people think that nitpick means invalid criticism? It's kind of used like that a lot, isn't it? Because I don't mean it like that if I say it Here I just I just tweeted something out. Yeah, because I kind of want to get some feedback on this Mm-hmm So, yeah, if you follow my twitter rags underscore yt Go for it. There you go. Jay perspectives folks share give I want I I know that apparently Wanting discussion is a bad thing But I would like some feedback on what you think a nitpick is because it's possible that you just have two groups talking past each past each other The length of something does not imply high quality just because two videos are equally long does not mean they're both equal in content As if rags ever said that two videos being the same length means they're the same in content Yeah, it's obviously not what I said. That's ridiculous. How do people watch this? How did you extrapolate that from what rags said? Geez? Wow This then says that ain't she's point of view is that anybody else's criticism of a movie that you liked is absolutely Not helpful unacceptable, which is once again, not true. It calls them nitpicks Yes, it was like you it's moving context there Yeah, you're you've you've already framed that statement. So we can just move on. There's no point Observer may call it you hypocrites. I will not not for this at least I actually then says yeah, it may be funny That doesn't mean it's helpful criticism. It doesn't mean it's unhelpful. Yeah, I know it doesn't mean it's unhelpful It's such a nebulous statement It's like ripping on movies isn't always helpful. It's like okay Yeah, but it can be That's the thing. Can you argue it's helpful if it got someone into a better mood? Like that alone But like say you make a really horrible video, but some guy watches it and feels better It's like could you that argue that at least that it's helpful in that way Well, that's that's what that's what ihg says in his video, right? That it that it made the happiness in the world go up or something like that Oh, right. Well, uh, just right certainly said the more criticism you have of movies the less happiness You'll have typically in the world or something. Yeah, maybe it was just right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was awful That that was that's the bike cock argument. It's just like man Come on, dude. She have become increasingly more aware of this I'm trying to make it more clear that what I say is just my opinion and that doesn't necessarily mean it's the correct Oh, let's write what it Jesus, I remember seeing that the first time with I hit everything. I was just like man, what are you doing like I hope it's clear that I'm sharing my opinion. It's like you begin every video with the stupid This is my opinion And a lot of things I had everything says is not his opinion Well, not not just his opinion. We've gone over this in the past part But uh, you can say things that are facts and opinions at the same time It's crazy. I know But I mean people actually don't believe this is a thing. So you have to actually provide examples but like Let's just go with the standard this the sun is a star. That's my opinion And then someone could be like that's not an opinion. That's a fact. It's like look at the definition of opinion It's just a position a perspective you hold it doesn't have to be Based on facts. It doesn't have to be based on feelings. It could just be anything. It's just a position you hold And yeah, they can be all of them. That's how it got turned into a defense by the way So someone's you say for example, the last judge is amazing. Someone says no, it's not you go Oh, whoa. Whoa. That's just my opinion as in I'm not arguing it. I'm just telling you how I felt about it and you're like, okay People some people in the chat are asking what the bike cock argument is. It's probably not a comment I just let's call it but there was there was a guy named shen who makes comics and he made a comic I think it was like early this year last year And it and it was big for over a little bit where essentially somebody has their bike stolen And he thinks to himself that I I'm upset that my bike is stolen But it's okay because the person who stole my bike is probably happier to get my bike Then I am to lose my bike. So it's okay No, uh Yeah, it's like so he just walks off like like satisfied and cathartic because like yeah, someone stole my shit But they were probably happy to steal it. So it's okay. It's so stupid. Yeah It's it's yeah, he I think he even ended up taking it down and it was ridiculous. But yeah, that's the bike cock argument It's like but it increased the amount of happiness in the world was like shut up Someone's someone punching me. It's like I can I can heal that but they probably have a feeling now that'll last for them forever It's like, what are you? Yeah, if if you're happier to punch somebody then they are sad to get punched then it's okay to punch them I guess I don't know Saying that this comment is irrelevant because of the way he paints his opposition's opinion You're the one who's painting the opposition in terms of these criticisms to the lowest possible Level of legitimacy and leaving it that yeah And so just in case anyone forgot obviously rags is kind of referencing still the um the fucking will helm scream argument Where he's like people hate the last jedi and so you have this group where it's like me and a bunch of other people and wolf whatever um And then he's like let's check out their arguments and he takes the fucking what this says. There's no will helm scream this film's bad It's like thanks. Thanks for that. Yeah like yeah But don't talk to me about helpful arguments if you're gonna talk about will helm screams I hate everything never attempted to paint the whole of the opposition's opinion It just seems like rags culminating. Well, I don't think I don't think I had everything was like explicitly saying This is every criticism that's ever levied against the film rags is obviously talking about the What he means by paint is the broad terms that I hate everything's using like criticism Clearly an idea that wants to be put across I mean that why else would you use the word paint? If you weren't talking about how he sort of he's making something look away. You paint you paint a picture Aichi himself is just too timid. He's only painting the ridiculous criticisms as ridiculous criticisms and using it to highlight How certain elements of the discourse have become marked then there's this little cup Yeah, but he also didn't do that tiaro He had a screenshot of people saying that the film was bad for legitimate reasons And he was like look at this craziness talk about. Yeah. Oh and look we got a new editor It's weird because this is my picture Yeah, but the other thing I'm just I'm such a layman editor I was so proud when I found out how to Like clip the little thing and get the line right and then put it in the garbage can I was like look at the thing I did Well, this we've been over this before but one of the biggest problems his editors have is they play your video in the background When they're talking about you but your video might have clips from I hit everything and then so It's just playing shit and you're just like sort of like wait. What who what are we? Yeah It's very confusing with aichi's intro screen in the bin in response to aichi's comment towards others shielding themselves with satire It was actually a relevant visual then Yeah, throw it away throw it away in the bin. It's hard to say much about that aichi then says I like the last jedi get over it rags manages to turn this into a point as if aichi was preemptively addressing rags saying that I'm not staying up making this video response because you like the last jedi I'm making it because of the attitude in which you approach criticism following his point with numerous justifications that i've already addressed And that is fine. He has presupposed them from earlier bias painting the opposition etc. I just watched his video Yeah, I think people assume a lot about what you did here like uh like it's some kind of Machiavellian breakdown when it was just you you watched the video and responded Yeah, i'm just responding to what was on someone else's video and of course that doesn't mean rags is immune to criticism I would never suggest that it's just that it's bizarre that um We said this before you've got a video about feelings and then a video about your feelings on feelings And then a video where it's like a complete analysis Down to an analytical level with references to narrative tripling on these feelings feelings. It's like what the hell And i it's confusing the way he's editing. Yeah But yes, this is a response to response to response if anybody was curious. Yeah Etc. Etc. I actually wasn't talking. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter visa the chat Hello, v. Hello v for him though. Now we get to where it expresses what he liked about the film He begins with the production value visual effects cinematography and acting rags strikes the first to off by saying Um, so Disney has lots of money Uh, people people don't like that statement, right? So maybe we need to clarify It's what it means is that um, take any indie films And they struggle to get amazing visual effects because of the fact that they don't have the money to afford cg You know companies to work at a Predetermined contract to generate a visual that's amazing. It's like so does that mean their film is now worse It's like well, that seems a bit unfair. They never had the potential to have it in the first place So it's not really an equal playing field like that You can have all the talents in the world, but if you don't have the budget to do those things, it doesn't matter Yeah, and to me it just seems a little bit unfair. You can't I'm in processing power you can if you know who to Who to approach and how much money? How much time they require you can always buy good cgi and um Like I spoke into my sister's boyfriend who's uh relatively He's doing well cgi art wise. He's uh, he worked on pacific rim 2 recently And I said to him like if I had loads of money or the money required and the time required Would you be able to find me a group that would guaranteed have good cgi and he was like well If if if it's true that you have infinite time and money then absolutely But it's like so what if I didn't what if I had infinite time and no money he was like Well, you're gonna have to find a friend who'll do it for free like and that's gonna be difficult Yeah, man, it's just it's the simple thing of like it's not like cinematography, which isn't necessarily money. It's just Look at um, what's a good example? You know, you know that rebecca black that music video friday. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, that's what happens when you have a lot of money and not a lot of talent Yeah, it's very professionally produced But the inherent skill the stuff that matters That's not there and as far as I know With stuff like black panther or films that are really high budget and yet have bad cgi as far as I know that this the the companies are rushed um Again speaking to my sister's boyfriend. He uh, he knew the company that worked on airbrushing superman's mustache out of the uh Justice league and he said they were not given the time they needed to do it and it's like, oh I heard it costs like millions and millions of dollars to do and this is the thing Me and rags simultaneously then if we were judging justice league unlike t.r.o And quintin apparently and and I had everything instead of saying the cgi was done badly the person who did it has You know poor talent with cgi instead of saying that I'd be like he clearly wasn't given the money in time That he was supposed to have And you can't say that about fucking uh the script for the last Jedi for example because ryan johnson had infinite time Or more time than he needed and he went with his first draft. He changed what was it 10 percent as as he has been admitted Which is insane by the way, um, you can't buy a good script as consistently as you can buy good cgi I I don't know. I don't know if anybody would disagree with that And so I'd rather talk about the substance cgi relies more on just buying power I spoke to um, yeah Why am I the other day for a bit which was which was neat and uh, I asked him what his perspective on those elements of filmar and he said well Yeah, what's the point of cgi and it's like it's a visual to represent The thing that's happening in the story. It's like okay and acting and it's like well, that's To portray the characters from the story In a way that we can believe they're actually on screen It's like okay, what about the sets and the costumes like well as to portray the story again It's like oh, so all of these elements are in favor of the script the script is the the core The script is where it all begins Everything else is to is to complement the script and that's not to take away from the amount of talent that's in these things That's that's absolutely not what I'm trying to do here It's just that when you say the last Jedi is great because of its visuals. I'd be like, okay So Prometheus is great then right It's like what if the room had millions of money dollars behind it and uh, you know these things like Effects and things of that nature should be in service to something more substantive The characters in the story the script Yeah, and it's that is that is a quote from uh, George Lucas reset a special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing I believe that's what he said. It's just interesting because a lot of people criticize the prequels for that uh, but No, the room the room did have millions behind it It didn't have millions behind a CGI budget and it had Tommy Wiseau was the director he was the the writer and so That's actually a proof that money does not buy quality. Yeah more money does not guarantee quality Yeah, um, but I don't I don't know why you'd have CGI in the room But you know Hopefully that makes it clearer what we're trying to say We're not saying the people who do all the work on CGI worthless That's just not what we're going in for States that creating the acting as brilliant is setting the bar kind of low now The latter two aren't really debatable as rags didn't address the cinematography yet and subjectively disputed the other However, the disney has money point is a curious one plenty of films have large budgets Some films that seed visually others fail something could still be perceived as visually good Avatar is a great example. Yeah It is a it is a it's an okay story it's pocahontas but P that that movie was built around the visuals It wasn't built around the characters of the story. It was built around the visuals And it cost an insane amount of money to do that Yeah, and you won't catch me Saying like there's a thing avatar storyline is a bit mere to me like, uh, especially being sort of retread So like what about the visuals though, and I'm like, well Yeah, the visuals were great. It looked like a great movie But, you know, that's just so surface low Guards of how much money went into it saying that disney has money as it means to seemingly undermine praise of a film If every film that you can praise the CGI You can it looked great the CGI looked great It's fine. It's just it's not a very substantive argument compared to the The issues in the film. It's just like again, I just want to we did this with I hate everything in the conversation I'm pretty sure we reference Prometheus I can't remember if we reference Suicide Squad, but again, that's another film with a high budget of CGI And it's like what are you going to do when people say like it doesn't matter if the story sucks I love the CGI they feel good It's like, uh, don't you want there's like don't you want films to be better than that? Yeah, I that's the thing I'd rather strive for a bit more greatness than just Spare enough buddy on a CGI company and give them enough time and we're good Existed and had money involved. It was visually also. Yeah I'm actually on someone just said if anything bad CGI would be a nitpick Uh, I think I mentioned The bad CGI Black Panther in my review at one point And I remember thinking myself like if the if the film was great I wouldn't necessarily give a shit because ultimately I'd just be like, uh It's a bad effect. They clearly were rushed whatever at least the the script itself is, you know, fantastic So it's a shame, but again, you'd want to remain consistent in terms of um Yeah, and and bad CGI can pull you out of the story. It can Oh, absolutely serve to you know Different levels for different people, but it can pull you out of what You know the world is and so you focus less on the script and the characters because you're like, uh, what's that? And now you're no longer watching a story so much as you're identifying a movie for a as a production Be good. Maybe you could set a standard but visuals are still a fairly mixed bag They're not presumed when going into the cinema money would maybe make it more of a feat on a proportional I mean when you when you walk into a star wars Movie, you're pretty much. I think Most people walk to a big budget star wars movie expect good visuals. I was gonna say like do you expect We're gonna get it. They cost a ridiculous amount of money And we know where the money's going. It's gonna be CGI. It's gonna be the actors. There'll be reshoots Make sure everything looks amazing There's like, I don't know. I think that there's a fair expectation like episode nine is probably gonna be glorious to look at I doubt that it'll have bad visuals It's like why well because of how much money is behind the project. I'm sorry. That's this is a correlation. They cost a lot And it's not again, you know because someone's gonna be like correlation does not equal causation. It's like I know I know you see there are exceptions But I think it's it would be hard to deny that the general Prevailing rule is that if you want visuals of a certain quality You're gonna have to pony up the bucks and it's gonna take time and processing power Then gets the same the less the less we focus on graphics and the less we focus on visuals You know the easier it is for you know people to basically It raises the barrier of entry if those are the focuses You know of what to do I just I just hate the idea that you take an indie film and someone's like, well, it wasn't that good The visuals are pretty bad. It's like the CGI isn't all there. It's just like, oh, yeah The film that had like 10,000 as a budget or something it should be like that's fair, but fine You know and you can say these things. It's just uh, just seems really unfair to me Yeah, Blair witch, you know stuff like that really tiny budgets and they don't rely on CGI or any of that stuff and they last forever because of it Because someone who does a lot of revision It's still the same mark to say that the only thing that could lead to a movie being stunning Is that they had the no no no, I don't say stunning. Yeah, we never said that going to not there's a shock though because It's just all you do Jesus, I just want you to like respond to something we actually say Jesus, that'd be great. Oh again Is the theory running around it's like why wouldn't quentin talk to ball or any point It's like because this none of this lasts he wouldn't be able to put this up He wouldn't be able to take you out of context that consistently live So he's got this entire argument prepared and he opens it with So rise you said that the only thing that's stunning is the cg and you go to no No, and then he's just stopped he'd be like, oh Like, you know what's stunning Fucking, I don't know. What's a good Masquerade is stunning and it the CGI. I don't think play it was very it had a lot of practical effects and costumes and sets you know, it's just It's not about CGI, you know, it in like the Blair Witch like I just mentioned earlier Very very low budget great atmosphere awesome movie, you know Stunning Is amazingly condescending especially considering that movies like suicide squad a lot of the marvel films and even the force awakens Failed to look nearly as good as the last four. That's fucking subjective you idiot. How the hell did he just say that? Yeah, that's very interesting. Mr. Nothing. Nothing is objective Although the last Jedi looks better than the force awakens on the majority of the MCU films. Okay That makes sense Very interesting Jedi if there are movies in existence that have come out recently that have had huge budgets and have not looked good Then you cannot come out and say that the last we said this new ones to the subject, man And besides you don't even know he's just right Rag says that it costs money and then Quinton comes back with yes But there are films that are paid a lot that don't look as good as other films And it's like well with black panther their budget was squandered or at least the time was squandered in favor of infinity war That's what I've heard from production elements, right? The reason that the CGI in that film failed is because they put all their time into infinity war instead There's not exactly we're still not wrong then by that logic Yes, it's time and money for the CGI artist It would be very very tough to deny that money doesn't play a huge factor Yeah, and besides We want to talk about the fucking script It's like what do you want to do talk about whether or not you like the way the thing looked It's like can we talk about the things that we can actually discuss Instead of just saying whether or not you liked the way it looked Please like why are you? I just can't believe you just said that I so hypocritical out considering everything else he said in this fucking video Someone in chat says because that idiot rag said that the last Jedi has budget so it looking good doesn't count Let me think it doesn't count Of course it counts the visuals is what makes you able to see a film Yes, visuals are a part of the film It's just like of course. Yes, it does look very good. I'd rather focus on something more, you know substantive I've come out recently that have had huge budgets and have not looked good Then you cannot come out and say that the last Jedi looking good just comes down to money and it shouldn't be counted as a positive I'm not saying it shouldn't be counted as a positive Yeah, he's not saying that the fact is uh You know, I can cite the amount of money that's gone into my videos if I wanted to so if there are things in the video That cost money to buy to be able to put them in or uh different art that rags has had commissioned He could be like this is how much money it costs me to we can actually quantify it Uh, yes, you know these things exist yet. They are positives in our videos Of course rags puts them there because people like to see them. It's not because They're worthless rags never said it was Just it's the only way they can counter-argue is to just invent the shit you say I know Jesus I can't we talk about like the the movie instead of the silly things like Yes, the visuals are part of the movie. I mean something that's more, you know, interesting Instead of yeah, it looks good yet. Everyone agrees basically that it looks really good Yeah, they spent a lot of money To make it look good and the people who did their jobs did them very well and they had ample time to do it Yes, but that's not really any of the issues that anyone has with the film is how it looks You know, yeah, there are a couple people who think it doesn't look too good I I typically I like the look of the film, but again that didn't save the film at all Hi, she then says Milo Ren is probably the most interesting. Oh, yeah. Is this picking my video? Um That's all this is the thing throughout the the theme of this video is the complete lack of self-awareness from TRO Every argument you make some favor of I had everything can be applied to you Where he's like you misunderstand the context in which he is saying this or remember those words we came up with He was like you don't understand. He's being hyperbolic. He's being sentimental. He's being sarcastic It could be like these all apply to rags, so Mm-hmm Yeah, for tanga did say this was a good response and this response is really shit Yeah, I mean I'm really unimpressed. I I kind of went into this thinking. Hey, maybe he'll you know really say something But oh, this isn't good at all I don't say that the last Jedi looking good just comes down to money and it shouldn't be counted as a positive And that's stupid. All right. She then says Milo Ren is probably the most interesting character in this entire franchise Now rags doesn't dispute that but asserts that he's the only interesting character then this is back and forth I I would climb to agree with you Kylo Ren's the only person that I'm interested in is because I have no idea What the hell's going on with Kylo Ren? Yeah, that's the thing man is like in Kylo There's no fundamental flaws with his arc there, especially at the end of the throne room and all that but I mean it's something I mean again our bar is really low for characters in the last Jedi But of all of them Kylo is the one that they can do the most with I think And yeah, you know like what do you want us to say? It's like no, I'm not interested in seeing where Rose goes where Finn goes where Rey goes where Who else is that Poe? I don't want to do it like I don't give a shit none of them Like Kylo's interesting just because he actually like is powerful takes actions to get to where he wants and I don't know What he wants so I'm just sitting here like let's think like allegedly he's powerful Yeah, we haven't actually seen him do anything powerful to my knowledge. Yeah, he held a shot in uh In mid air. Yeah, he stopped uh, he stopped a blaster bolt in the force awakens and he lost Lightsaber fights few times. He's lost to Rey twice. That's yeah, that's evidence of his power. Oh wait To dictate. I'm not here to dispute the opinions themselves too much though I will obviously state them rags expresses that he feels that the military and strategic incompetence of the first order Actually gave me no sense of tension like I had in the original trilogy. I never felt afraid for our characters I never felt afraid for rey because she's a Mary Sue and she she'll excel and surpass Anything that should be expected of a character like her in every scenario, which is fine. He then states that although the I agree, which is fine Oh, I'm thank. Yeah, it is fine Fights were visually appealing that disney has money Then we discussed cinematography once more and rags does agree that the cinematography was good He just asserts that ryan johnson needs to stay away from everything else Yes, everything explains why he loved the music score and clearly feels very passionately about it as someone who is a big fan Of scores myself. I can definitely relate however rags his only comment is that I don't remember any of the music from this film That's all I actually them I don't remember the music What's rags gonna say like no, I hate everything you don't like the score in the film Is the thing I notice it's okay to say that you don't remember or that you don't know It's like the way that was framed was as if you'd you'd fallen short there. It's like what else can rags do Yeah, it's like I don't I didn't remember any of it And here's the thing Everybody walked out of the Lord of the Rings trilogy knowing the music man Are the original star wars knowing the music is like there's a lot of There's a lot of musical scores out there that really stick with you I think the scores in the the prequels are better than the sequels. Uh, a lot of people cite the Revenge of the sith has like one of the best star wars tracks or soundtracks in Uh, the the saga so you know The sequel ones all I remember from the sequels is I remember Ray's theme, but again, that's more force awakens And that's probably because I've seen the film so many times now as opposed to remembering it first time around If you asked me to hum a song from the sequel or from the current trilogy, I I couldn't I honestly couldn't Yep, I just don't they just didn't they don't stick with me. They just haven't stuck with me Visual effects, which ranks use as he does And if you like the music, that's okay. Yeah, that's if you like the music that is totally fine I have no problems with it It's just not my thing just didn't stick with me But if you like it man more power to you and I'm glad that you liked it Again money does not guarantee good visual You only have to look at some of the criticism black panther and equally budget blockbuster receive for it cg So that money in film doesn't always This is the thing he's assuming that we're saying if you have a budget your cgi will be good It's no It's if you have a budget spent on cgi with the contracts allowing the companies to have the time they require Then it will be good Yes Obviously it's not because Me do you think me and rags aren't aware that you could spend a million on a movie and put $10 into the cgi budget? Like that could happen. So obviously the statement that money equals good cgi isn't completely valid You need a bit more new ones. Let me take a look, but we're using it as a general statement. Okay um Black panther is amazing. So why are it cg mausel so terrible from in gadget? Well, no black panther is really mediocre and the cg models Are similar But yeah, i'm like like there's articles and stuff talking about it, you know and I'm curious if a lot of them have You know we'll talk about where did the cost go Can you talk about a different movie next time? Have we even talked about star wars really in this entire video? We haven't even this is this is the closest thing that we've got to talking About the cgi. That's the thing Or talking about the movie like this is it like we're just now kind of starting to talk about the film Visual quality is not assumed not from my perspective at least but really this outlines a fundamental difference Although rags is attempting to excuse what i g likes. He's not using it. It's fine if he does excuse what he likes What is that? He's excuse. I hate that's terrible wording As if his opinion is like an affront to me or something Like he's like i'm not excusing his opinion. I'm either saying that I agree or that it's fine It's like it's it's fine. It's totally fine to have whatever opinion you want. I'm not excusing it I'm curious what he exactly he means by that. Why would it's almost like he's implying that I hate everything needs an excuse Yeah, it's what and you say shit like this and people in the comments eat it up It's like he's excusing his opinion. He's like you're assuming like I have this mental outlook on somebody else's You know unlike on this guy's opinion is like if you like The score of the last Jedi that's fine music is like at the top end of the most subjective thing. I could ever imagine You know I mean, I'm not a musician So you're not going to catch me being able to say anything about the construction if I find something boring. I'll tell you That's about it Did they crop your dog go off the white background? Oh, yeah, that's just strange. Yeah, that's that's one of it's it's a little side thing But yeah, they did um, which Why bother because not only that but this is the first time it's been done because of the different editors. So again, it's just like Ah, it's a bit. It's just so confusing Tempting to excuse what he likes. He's not really arguing As if it was like as if he thinks that it actually like offends me that he liked the music Yeah, I was gonna say I was trying to absorb this point entirely quality It's not assumed not from my perspective at least but really this outlines a fundamental difference Although rags is attempting to excuse what ie likes He's not really arguing that much and this just shows that people have different ideas of what they expect cinema to be And have different areas of interest to what composes a good film and what may make one person happy won't necessarily make another Even if it's the same Yeah I don't believe I have ever disputed that You can break down so many things but it's like the way that he's explaining this He's clearly like frame it like that's not my position Like someone in the comments was pointing out earlier that TRO is trying like his damned hardest to make me look a certain way Or explaining these basic concepts as if you don't sort of adopt them That may not work for you, but it doesn't necessarily contradict what may work for someone else ie then says enjoyed the themes of learning through failure Even if some characters are thrown to the side for the sake of reinforcing that point Rags take this point and suggest that Luke Skywalker shouldn't have been one of them and as well as that from akbar Then there's the mock camel thing again and ie and rags. God. What is the structure of this video like? He says this point then rags at this point and then they talk about this It's like what are we gonna talk about them or it was are you saying the what rags said was okay? I don't know It's it feels like he paid a bunch of people to edit this Who are different people and not him, you know and that there wasn't a lot of I feel as if there wasn't a lot of cohesive your communication This is strangely structured video. It is a little hard to follow where we're going I was like, oh shit. Where are we going now sort of thing and by the way, uh Nice to see the themes have been brought up. Yeah the themes themes. I clapped for themes Clearly disagree on this point rags can't be emotionally invested and that's fair enough It's his opinion ie makes a nice towards a certain character that some have called pointless I think the way the film culminates with the three different plot lines all coming together at once is extremely well You say you say yeah, I'd say convenient I know I I remember listening to him say that he's like it's so amazing how they converge. It's like What do you mean? No, the script just said they all meet here. Do you remember Rose crashes in with Finn as the only ship that could even make it into the to the good guys And they just had that that just worked out that way like what about that is so amazing to you in terms of writing It was like it's very Very lazy Really was yeah, it's like and then they then they crash there and then ray shows up Yeah, the three plummeters. How does ray get this like well She has a fight with kylo that he just gets knocked out by and she takes the in the throne room Yeah, and she takes a support ship And like no one stops her. There's no Issue she just oh, yeah, I'm just gonna take you know, we're just here now They have a throw in line. I'm falcon. He's like oh, she took uh, Snoke's emergency vehicle vessel. Did you like oh? Oh Oh, that's just accessible for anybody. I guess and she just ends up in the this is what I mean It's like if if you really want to say that it's amazing how they all come together It's like if we look at it deeply it's like good god. It's bad. They just shove everyone together She took Snoke's craft and arrived in the millennium falcon. It's like a craft We didn't know existed and we don't know why she didn't get knocked out by him And we don't know why there was no alerts to this room to send anybody in to to deal with whatever happened Why do you there's just so much just like I guess that's just how that worked fine Sure, that's really well written And finn drag shrek back to the base before they already yeah, it's just like they're all just there They're all just there wherever you need them to be. They're just there And yeah, like the obvious question of did she just walk up to snokes personal ship and it just allowed her to leave There was no security this Yeah, you think yeah, it's like jeez. Oh and that's fair enough. It's his opinion iG makes a nice towards a certain character that some have called pointless I think the way the film culminates with the three different plot lines all coming together at once is extremely well executed And genuinely thrilling and exciting even if what it took to get there had some bumpy moments rags embellishers They're stating it's almost as if you understand there are extremely legitimate criticisms people have of this film And that's the thing he completely does his previous points were not to suggest Yeah, but there's been no impression of that throughout this whole video so far Yeah It's like he suggests that there's actual criticism And let's not let's not mince words here He said on his fucking sardonic ass podcast that he's not really heard any good arguments against the film Yeah, ihe really really flip flops around When it comes to the last jedi, so he's selectively aware of good arguments. He's selectively Like it's like it's almost as if depending on present company He'll say different things which is kind of slimy And this is the thing at tRO is like see he obviously doesn't understand these good arguments It's like, I don't know. I haven't gotten that impression not just from his videos, but what he actually says That there weren't he just felt that there are too many points of worthlessness or toxicity as well There is no denial of legitimate criticisms just an observation that maybe some criticisms are a bit unnecessary Prefilm that's ingrained in the star wars. Well, who the fuck's gonna argue unnecessary Well, what do you mean? What do you mean unnecessary criticism? Well, like the willhelm one is probably unnecessary But I wouldn't even unnecessary is a strange way to label it. I don't know. Yeah Like it isn't needed Like I Assuming that's even a real assuming that's even a real thing I'm surprised you didn't go with like a Instead of a joke comment that he's taken seriously I I think he probably meant to say something like hyperbolic because unnecessary seems very strange Yeah, it's very strange Movies in regards to what you think about the last Jedi. There's nothing inherently unfair about that I actually states that he personally thought mark hammels art was very satisfying And although I never personally agreed with the jolting introduction I can understand that from the premise what followed wasn't unreasonable to viewers rags responds to this suggesting He could play more mark camel footage which doesn't really change the point What mark camel thought doesn't necessarily charity validity of what someone else thought so this part I don't think rags would have said that uh Well, it depends If if if I hit everything was like this is completely in line with mark hammels character It's like well, I could play more clips from mark hammel to Let you know that the guy who plays the character thinks the complete opposite, but hey You know, there's obviously a discussion to be had there, but I guess if he was like, but that's how I feel You'd be like, oh All right Part is pretty important. I think I hate everything says that he didn't really have a problem with how the force was used in The last jedi and that he didn't agree with how a lot of the fans have said that it wasn't done Right and rags interprets this as a personal attack on the fans Didn't have a problem with the way the force was used like a lot of fans do Yeah, those pesky fans, which no dude. He's just disagreeing with them Rags is clearly being hyperbolic. So you don't need to you don't interpret it so wrongly quinton So again, the self-awareness is just completely out the window None doesn't exist rags literally said those pesky fans. It's like what do you think rags if rags had said I had everything I don't appreciate the insults. I think the fans are pesky like really I did it. It's just sad. It's like uh, let's Say that rags has given no benefit of the doubt while giving no benefit of the doubt to rags How do you not realize what you're doing calm down rags on begins to lay down Yeah, it is your opinion. It's just my idea. Why can't you just let people have opinions quinton? Gosh, quinton's so bigoted He didn't have a problem with the way the force was used like a lot of fans do Yeah, those pesky fans, which no dude. He's just disagreeing right because every time the fans are mentioned so far He told you to calm down by the way after calling us whole warriors Like i'm going off the chain or something Like quinton all he's done is disagree while you've been like Moller and rags are a blight on film criticism. They're toxic. They think that no one should have an opinion They fight their war every day. It's like dude So we're the ones who need to calm down turn off those pesky fans Didn't have a problem I feel that I feel that's what ryan johnson did Just turn off a lot of pesky fans. That's got to be sort of like a plaque at disney hq right now Turn off this pesky fan Force was used like a lot of fans do yeah those pesky fans Which no dude. He's just disagreeing with them calm down Rags line begins to lay down this idea that the last jedi is bad because it quote Fucks up the lore. No, it's bad because they spent money on cgi Yeah, do it money strict. Get your get your fucking argument straight get your get your wrong argument straight I love that he says this as well like Fucks up the lore and it's like you realize that I hate everything I said the prequels are fucked up the lore So it's not like a hyperbolic statement. It's something that is actually you can you can actually measure You know rules that contradict each other and it's like try and what are you gonna do? I'll give the yoda's force lightning totally makes sense and that doesn't counter anything Yep, totally works makes sense. Yeah, that's a chat. Yeah, it's funny how being hyperbolic It's so convenient for rags, but when ihg is being hyperbolic. You don't see it Like, yeah, funny how that works out Now first of all, I think most people would find it entirely reasonable to debate if the lore is even Okay, quintin. Where is your debate with moller? That's not gonna happen Where's the debate that you refuse with moller? That the last jedi is bad because it quote Fucks up the lore. Now. First of all, I think most people would find it entirely reasonable to debate If the lore is even important to if the movie is good or not Jesus christ, what do you mean really? Did you unironically say that you stupid tub? It's like, why do you think they have lore in the films? Because it doesn't do anything and it doesn't matter. It's like come on I don't care if most people would even think that they're wrong I just I just wonder how far this goes. It's like some people would debate whether or not characters are even important to a film's quality Like this continuity non-important consistency in universe rules is like why have What what's the fucking point of even having What's the argument What's the argument for how law doesn't matter? I want to hear that Well, it's literally where we derive our rules and history from for the universe Like how do you not have the law? There's law in everything pretty much any fiction It's like, how does it how does a critic of like films Unironically say that you know like the opening to lord the rings where they're like they were The great rings were forged people just like get on with it. No one cares about the law Like oh, but this is important because the one ring is is literally the the entire point of the film's like I don't care about the law get on with the jewelry Okay, I ain't a woman but let's just try to ignore this for now because rags doesn't even really prove that the movie does Fuck up the lore. His key example for this is the sequence where yoda shows up at the end of the film as a force ghost He doesn't prove it that he proves it Like this is the lightning. It's the lightning. Yeah, I'm assuming he's gonna get to that Mahler and rags both bring up three main points about this The first being that yoda should have appeared earlier in the movie and indeed during the events of the flashbacks Yeah, yoda is supposed to be he has a standard investment In the the jedi succeeding and good winning over evil. So where the fuck was he when everything was falling apart It's like one of those things where if yoda cared Then you'd think he would show up before now Yeah, so that's that's that's the easy contradiction yoda decides to show up now He's like why hasn't he shown up before it's like oh well because luke Uh, it's like luke's been a fucking depressed Idiot for like what 10 years or something like he's been there for a while 10 20 30 years. Who knows? And then ray shows up and luke Why now and this isn't even even talked about the stupid fucking lightning, right? Not he forget the lightning Why now Was this like a great moment of Peril for luke or something like that and yoda just does what luke would have done anyway it You know strange decision when luke fucks up with kylo and then decides you know what? I'm going to go and find that planet and just sit in exile. That's around about the time I think yoda should pop in and be like hey, maybe that's not a great idea While he was in his x-wing flying to the planet you think lota would be on the dashboard like are you sure you want to do this? But no luke, I don't know about this dude Like this seems like a bad idea and then you get the ghosts of you know Atticid popping up and the ghost of obi-wan being like hey luke. I know I haven't seen you at ages, but like this is a bad idea Four doesn't match Jesus Christ Yoda who conveniently has showed up 30 years after luke has decided to crash himself here. Gee. Thanks a lot yoda Thanks for waiting 30 years This also raises the question of where yoda been while luke has been spiraling into this new and interesting character over 30 years Especially if it took one sentence to bring him back from his perspective where was yoda when kylo was created Where were any of the force ghosts the answer is that for one luke spends most of the movie cut off from the force Yeah, no, he wasn't cut off He wasn't cut off the whole time and that's not even yeah It's not like that's a rule that you can't get a visit from a force ghost if you are cut off from the force It doesn't stop yoda from walking wherever he wants to yeah I mean even even if we gave him the benefit of the doubt They're still all the time that he wasn't Like what it's it's it's this is ridiculous. This isn't something you can argue So i'm interested to see what else he's got because that's that's his first point It's already out the window and for two this is explained in episode five if you choose to face fader you will do it alone What obi-wan comes back after that Yeah, what are you talking about quinton? All right, let's see if there's more to this point. I cannot interfere Now you can try and speculate. That's it. That's all you got. Oh, we can speculate That's not what we're doing obi-wan comes back. He celebrates with anakin and yoda. That's the thing that happens Sorry quinton Sorry, dude from the force and for two. This is explained in episode five If you choose to face fader you will do it alone I cannot interfere now you can try and speculate over why they couldn't appear in this one sequence But none of that's ever really clarified. It's just yeah, there's no clarification Yeah, there you go explanation and then it and then what yoda does counters it anyway They can interfere besides uh, if someone wants to try and say You see him saying I can't interfere means yoda cannot Strike lightning. It's like why the fuck can yoda strike lightning on a very A place that's very real. He sets it on fire and explodes it He can clearly interfere with matter Like he can do a thing that's destructive and to be like oh, well, he can do that But he can't do it to the first order. He'd be like, oh, that's just bullshit He has like the problem that I point out about lore consistency quinton. Why would you play lore inconsistency? To combat my point of lore inconsistency Or do you have no self-awareness and even if we allowed that point if we said, yeah, you're right He does say you can't interfere that doesn't explain the the the question we actually raised Which is where's yoda been this whole time? We're not asking that that's because it's another point that yoda should have been electrocuting the enemies Where's he been? That doesn't answer where he's been Bad this is really bad So all we really know is that in this situation, they couldn't appear now if you want to try to argue that No, we don't know that at all It's never said and even if it was they'll be awful if they just if luke heard when luke sees him in episode Well, the last Jedi he's like yoda. Where have you been and he goes? I haven't been able to cup to you this whole time and that's it and as Video gamer seven pointed out the lore doesn't matter. Also this statement from a previous movie explains this It's like see you in while there's no self-awareness from quinton It's this is this is baffling. He's how we call it. It's the theme of the video Back to back This isn't a good enough explanation. That's entirely your right, but if you're arguing it specifically in the context of episode eight That's strange. Yeah, it's strange because it makes sense and that's just like that's kryptonite to you. Oh god Yeah, he hates that shit to me. Yeah, because to me if this is good enough for episode five Then it should be good enough for the entire you haven't made an argument for why it's good for episode five But not what ob one said was I've always interpreted it as he was like if you go and fight veda I'm not going to help you because uh, you're a piece of shit like you're ignoring my advice to stay away from him He's trying to tempt him away from it and by help obviously he's probably I would say It's it's very likely he's referring to the same help He gave him an episode four where he was like let go luke use the you know, he's in his head giving him advice He's not fucking firing lightning bolts of people It's strange too that when he says I cannot interfere that doesn't he's not saying that the rules of the force dictate I can't interfere He's saying I can't interfere and it could be for personal reasons What coins I had to advocate for here is like if we just think about you know How it's probably not possible and invent reasons for that. It totally makes sense What a strange person to be a critic Franchise, I don't know why we would be cherry picking in this one situation. Yeah, we're not before we go any further I want to point out something inherently contradictory in the opening minutes of his video rags directly attacks I hate everything for having an attachment to star wars looks to me like you've got quite an emotional attachment to star wars Which I had everything confirmed in our conversation. He said that the yes, I am I'm I'm correct He's correct on that. I'm correct. I'm just I'm just right I just hope I never Irrationally attached myself to something like you've done to star wars. What's pathetic and what's childish? Is you having emotionally attached yourself to a brand? But throughout his own video He discusses why he views the movie to be bad through the lens of someone who is upset that their attachment to the characters The universe and the story has been disconnected. No, that's not it. No, that's not contradiction Why do you why did he found such a rhymed about way of saying that? He was like your rags are looking at it through the lens of someone who is disconnected Is he trying to say that you're doing what I had everything's doing in reverse like you Your argument stem from someone who hates it Is like here's the thing like I can appreciate like terminator too, right? Like I'm not like a huge terminator fan or anything, but I can defend it through the lens of somebody who loves it also, yeah, uh Nicholas funny enough Nicholas Quinton in chat just highlighted Uh Quinton brought up that part with obi-wan to explain that ghosts can't interfere Uh when they do interfere in episode four and the like I said, we we brought that up and Like I said, I believe that obi-wan said he will he can't interfere Because he's trying to tempt luke away from going after vader in episode five. He's very clear about that. He says stop It's just very strange. Now who's not paying attention to the lore that is relevant apparently So confusing ryan johnson laughs at your concept of being attached to characters and it shows a direct disdain for the established lore of the star wars universe that many people respect Not to mention the complete disrespect to the lore and invention of series altering mechanics I don't even know if I'd consider myself a star wars fan anymore. This this may have killed it for me. Why does he should I care Does he conflate being a fan of something to having like a deep emotional attachment or something? Yeah, I think he's taken what you've said and skewed it So you're you're arguing that an emotional attachment is making it unable to see what's actually happening And he's like you see your emotional Detachment is making you unable to see what's happening. It's like no you're saying that your emotional detachment is caused by what happened Very strange. Like I'm a fan of like mass effect, right? But I hate Andromeda I mean, I'm a huge fan of the predator franchise that it keeps getting shattered over and over again And I and I don't understand Is there like a point where I'm trying to make an argument from a motion? Yeah, no, that's the thing you haven't as far as I can tell but again We don't really see much of your video in any kind of coherent manner for all I know This is the opening second or the last second. I have I've got no clue Very strange There anymore people who want to see Luke being a badass like he was in the original trilogy He earned his badassery if you think that alex's opinion is invalid because he's just a star wars fan Fan no a fanboys its own thing a fanboys its own thing entirely It was very clear. He said he was so emotionally attached. He's unable to actually like Think critically. It's it's very simple concept. Stop trying to like desperately try and twist it so it makes the rags a hypocrite Like that's not gonna work. We could we know what he said We're moving right along. This is another thing quinton does. He loves to reframe Like take very small quotes and then reframe it and like take the original context away and put his own on it So it could be like look how bad this is guys and it clearly worked when we looked at those comments People hate rags. Thanks to this video Well, they came to yeah, there's some people the same thing that just simply aren't true Who are attributing to me things that i've never said or that you are hating you for things that you've never said And it's because people like this will say that and it just gets believed and spread, you know, yeah To then turn around and say That because you used to be a star wars fucking music by the way I know I was about to say why is there music? Why is there a clue shirt in front of the blue room? Why? There's fanboy and you once had an attachment to the franchise Your opinion is better than his yeah, rags never said that either just keep going quinton keep spewing nonsense Man keep trying keep one day. You'll make a point Maybe Keep on digging for a reason that just seems mean spirited and hypocritical Good god, do not comment on people being mean spirited and hypocritical, dude. Yeah Yeah, quinton Pretty low tier in that regard by the way at this point. I'm arguing as a fan and not as a critic And I think that says a lot. I don't even know what that means really Your statement is your statement is it accurate either way? Yeah, like why why are those different things? Why is that distinction even one that needs to be made? I'm arguing as a fan and not a good if anything Saying that you're arguing as a fan and not a critic is bad Because you're putting away your you know, you're scrutinizing lens So giving things a pass Rags then goes on to say that the last Jedi adds information about the force ghosts and thus it's bad He starts I don't think rags would have said it adds information is contradictory information I would imagine is what you're going for off with the fact that luke gets hit on the head by yoda's cane And this means the force ghosts can touch things and thus it's a retcon Well, except for the fact of force ghosts or he's gonna reference that he sat on a log As opposed to actually hurting somebody log. He's not doing anything with all. He's just sitting down Yeah, for all we know. He's not actually actually touching the log at all Yes, it's just a representation of him like the log is no. This is terrible quintin This is like he's God He hits the guy with a stick is not luke reacts to it like ow. What the fuck you're like you just hit me Yes We don't know anything about the log. It was probably just the actor the ghost itself No, there's no reason for the ghost itself to have in any way needed to do that But he could have just in terms of wanting to show that he was resting there We don't know we don't know if there's any effect on the log at all and besides she brought it up luke's Yoda summoned lightning. That's a bit of a jump compared to either of the ones we've just gone over Yes, he he disappears and reappears. He doesn't have to manipulate the log in order to sit on it That's a thing Constantly sitting on things constantly sitting on things like two instances Eating on things making noises while they walk through grass Oh, good. God finger and editing thing. Yeah, that's easily a You could easily chalk that up to a movie era while luke getting hit by yoda is a deliberate choice Yeah, man. It's like the it's like the the car in the shire, man. It's like, you know, if it was made today, that's an editing thing That's not an in-universe thing. That's an editing thing. Yeah, if it was made today There's a good chance that they would have him phase through all the grass because he's a ghost for fuck's sake And besides yeah, it's like it's like you're judging a like Guinness for having to sit down It's he's an old man like Jesus So that point is immediately I like he doesn't sat down that scene because he had to I love how I said that point is immediately debugged. You could basically just play that back to him every single time he makes a point Brings up the fact that yoda as a force ghost can now use lightning and this Fucks up the lore. I trust you don't have to think long about how much this fucks up the lore. Yes does it though You're an idiot quintin. Holy fuck It's like a child that should be able to grasp that all of a sudden you introduce the fact that force ghosts Can use lightning on real objects and destroy them It doesn't for one in what situation have we seen the force ghosts in before where they were you haven't that's the point That's the point quintin is that they weren't doing that but they could have it any time they wanted Yeah, we've been told now So it's like the the force ghosts were not on end or when our team were trying to destroy the shield generator because we assumed There's nothing they could do anyway But now the last Jedi is confirmed that not only can they definitely do something But they they can go as far as actually hit people in the face. So You'd be like, okay. Well, that doesn't matter because the force ghosts don't have the motivation for it, right? And it's like, well, no, if you take anything said by Obi-Wan in the originals, he's as a force ghost He's basically trying to find any way shape or form to defeat the emperor and Basically win. So of course they have the motivation. They have the ability to actually do something Why wasn't Yoda firing lightning at the fucking shield generator base in uh, empire straight return of the Jedi? And here's Here's the thing too in the original trilogy especially It wasn't ever really made entirely clear whether or not the force ghosts were Just apparitions unique to the person Yeah, or if they were like group things or if the force ghosts were actually there or It wasn't really clearly defined, right? But they all kind of existed in that sort of essence, right? Now we've established that they can appear As physical manifest manifestations, right? And they can affect things. They can hit you with sticks And they can cast lightning at this point. It makes you wonder why bother being alive And this is the thing he had a very real effect on a very real structure on a real planet Like this was not something that was just like You saw Obi-Wan walk through an area, you know, it was a bit different Very simple. I don't know why that uh, he's He's having trouble with this but then again, it is Quinton. So two people they can't appear during confrontation This is essentially the first time they can appear during confrontation We the Obi-Wan was with Luke when he destroyed the Death Star with Darth Vader. So Obviously they couldn't fucking get around where it would have made sense for them to do this ever for two Force ghosts are constantly said to be part of the living force every time a character dies in the Star Wars universe someone says some shit like I wonder what the force they are now It is not insane to me or an inherent contradiction that force ghosts part of the actual force Could make a bolt of lightning come down But okay, why haven't they done that before? Yeah, I was gonna say like the thing is that they do They did that's what happened and now we know that that's a thing they could do so Yeah, it's I think Quinton thinks that we're saying we can't believe that That they did that we believe they can do that and we accept they can do that and that's the problem Yeah, it's I don't I love how he's like it's not a contradiction to me. It's like I don't care. It's a contradiction Like I don't I don't care how you interpret it. We're talking about the actual things that happen Like why is this so hard for you? He was with him when he fled the Death Star to run Luke run Yeah Earlier in the video, I hit everything made a pretty good case for why he didn't agree with these very points But rags was playing so little of the video at once that he failed to understand what Alex was trying to say Yeah, we the rags of me we failed to understand. I hit everything but you You you you get us 100 percent. It's not like you have to not only ignore everything we say But you have to invent quotes from us Are you such a hypocrite like I don't even know where in my video we are No, of course. I have no idea what he's referring to as well. I'm I think it would be Unlikely we're gonna get a clip, but let's hope someone So I will now try and explain bum luck in the in the chat ask an interesting question If that's how the force goes work then why aren't there thousands of dead jedi constantly intervening in conflict? This is thousands of them like It's just and then they kill you and then you become a force ghost. This is why If I was to write star wars, I would have basically said yeah force ghosts are uh specific to the person and We don't actually know if they really can affect anything at all We'll never find out because I'll never confirm that as a writer But ryan johnson decided to go the other way with that. Also, um, there's someone picked it up I am actually a little bit ill. I've got a bit of a cold. Hopefully it's not ruining my uh My audio quality or whatever. I didn't notice. I didn't notice someone picked up that I'm congested. So very good ears apparently Most of the complaints about the force and the canon in episode eight comes down to a sentiment along the lines of If it didn't happen in episodes one through six No, uh, it's about presenting scenarios in which these abilities would have helped people Uh, and they were not used simple as that because I think I know what he's gonna say Then it can't happen now. I yeah, he said exactly what I thought he'd say We're not saying this see this is a problem with quintin He attacks a completely separate point than the one we're making It it just he just latches on to something he invents in his head and he goes for it And he completely ignores what we're saying Our problem is not that it can't happen. Our problem is that it Can if um, it has been shown to you You know the force skype calls that are apparently a very very like you have to be an extremely powerful sith slash jedi to be able to pull those off To me i'm like well a sith's jedi skype call doesn't really change anything in the in the other films The ability to do that doesn't really do anything to them. So it's fine with me like a That's how you would add a force power. You don't add a force power that says, um If you cast this force power, you're immune to damage. That's a new thing you can do now And it's like why didn't they do that in all of those fucking other films That you have to be careful about what you add because what you add can contradict what came before and that's just about Respecting the fucking writing. That's I don't know why I have to explain this, but This is it's very like I said before it's very strange that this is coming from someone who considers themselves Star Wars movies and yeah, yeah It's very strange. This is the kind of this is the last kind of person I would want offering any set any kind of criticism An entirely unreasonable standard what force powers existed in episode four The answer is oh we want doing the thing about force powers He's going on a tangent now He's going on a tangent about something that we've never even addressed He's going to explain that force powers are introduced in episode five that we're not in episode four therefore the last jedi makes sense It's like that's not that's not a point Quinton. It's not going to make sense But we'll let you we'll let you do it just to get past it Mind trick thing and Darth Vader choking someone from a distance The film shows a confrontation between the two mightest force users in the galaxy And both of them use zero force powers in the battle And the force in practice is rarely demonstrated in the film itself over the years since episode I was like, oh, yeah, well, um Let's see Endor wasn't in episode four So that means that people must have a problem with it. Yeah, uh, they never mentioned endor in episode four So it existing in episode six must mean that rags and mohler have a problem with that I mean by this logic right Quinton Like he's he's like, who is he arguing against he thinks he's arguing against a point we've made Let's say a man made of strawberries like no, it's a bad made of like jelly He's like he's he's alone in his room Arguing against a point that no human being has made that's relevant here in this scenario. It's it's very strange Like he's literally the only person involved No, I told you man like he's he always wanted to respond to my videos So he just he ranted in his room and he sent this video into the editors for I hit every uh tRO and they've just supposed it onto the This video. It's just there now. It's just been Repurposed into sections and just been plopped on and he can feel satisfied. He's like see I counted mohler Even though he's used as like, uh, this is why the last Jedi is bad sort of thing Even though these videos stupid and this is how and it's like you've done such a piss poor job of countering me and rags And he keeps using law arguments when he said the law isn't important For numerous force powers have been a retconned into existence. No, that's not a retcon retcon into No, it's not how that word works if You know because you'd be like Oh fucking Bubba fat was retconned into existence because he wasn't in episode four. It's like that's not how that works Yes, retcon is a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift Or account for an inconsistency with vader strangling that officer We know that he can basically have some form of telekinesis So when luke uses telekinesis to grab his lightsaber in episode five, we can reasonably assume that was always possible for vader to Also, for those of you who don't know retcon means retroactive continuity Levitating or pulling something without physical touch Yeah, strangling somebody would be the equivalent of doing that. You're using a something at distance Uh telekinesis and again, what is that contradict in the fourth film nothing the force to jump higher What does what is jumping high with the force contradict in the fourth film? Nothing using the force to summon. What does using electric on somebody with the force lightning contradict in either episodes four or five Nothing lightning to your fingertips using the force to talk to someone from a distance away That one's actually a contentious one for a couple of people. I can't remember what the problem with it is. I think it's like Something like vader should have sensed luke faster than he did If this connection is possible, but it's like a ongoing discussion. But again, um That's actually a better example. He could have worked with that one instead of just naming powers and saying they didn't exist before I Fucking ghost and using the force to push things Even by the time that episodes two and three came out the force powers that existed within the star wars universe We're still being invented and expanded upon So what that means is that when you watch the films in any basic chronological It's like he's implying that we just have a problem with new powers Which is not something we've ever said Yeah, as he legitimately is going after the argument that we've never made that we have an issue with new things being introduced Just because it's a new thing order. They don't make any sense because half of the force powers stop existing after road one I have to that's not a no He just never there was never a scenario where vader needed to use any force powers other than the ones he used simple as that His efficiency I would say adds to his you know his domineering aspect Yeah, it's just like quinn's implying that because we didn't see uh force jump and force lightning that they couldn't possibly exist in episode four It's like no Because in his video rag says that luke and kylo not using force powers against each other in their battle is a contradiction Also, I noticed the lack of force powers in that fight, but that's only true Did you say it was a contradiction? I don't know. There's I can't remember I don't know. I don't know if quinn added that or not Because he adds a lot of shit to us, you know, he played the clip. He didn't say contradiction He said that it's uh I don't know. There's no context for what i'm saying I don't know what i'm saying and in what response it is. It's just a tiny little segment of a thing And we always get the context of what things are said because we have to when we play the whole fucking video We get criticized for this, but hey, I way prefer it to just pretending like we watched the video Yeah, I I don't know what i'm so I don't know what i'm saying here in this video clip that he's playing I don't know the context of it. This was remember this a months and months ago I I can't remember if it's off my head. I wish he just played the whole clip of me saying it Yeah, just just catch it though He says that you claim it's a contradiction and then he plays a clip in which you don't even say that so it's interesting Half of the force powers stop existing after rogue one I have to bring this up because in his video rag says that loop in kylo not using force powers against each other in their battle Is a contradiction. Also. I noticed the lack of force powers in that fight But that's only true under the standards of the prequels Yeah, I have no idea what i'm actually saying because we need more context kwinton. We don't even know what rag's point was I'm the one who said it and I don't even know what i'm saying here How bizarre is that we'd have to go back to rag's video to figure out what tiaro slash kwinton is responding to instead of just telling us like like You play the clip, but it doesn't have the word contradiction in it. So as far as we know all rags said was the It's not even a clip. Yeah I Don't know what to do with this. It's like what you I'm tempted to actually go and try and find it in your video, but the thing is like your video is Far too long for me to figure out a lot of stuff And I have no idea if it's the first five minutes if it's the opening half an hour if it's the rest I have no idea where it is. Yeah, I don't know where we are. I don't know where it is in my thing And so I guess this is why this is why the the bullshit asymmetry is true By the way folks in chat you're like, how long how does it take so much longer to respond to something so much smaller? We have to infer so much. So let's let's account for multiple arguments here The chat is saying that I was saying the fight was lame The fight in the throne room was boring and the I was talking about the throne room fight But the throne room fight doesn't have luke in it. I know that's strange Because I've got were you actually talking about that is against the ray kylo and guards fight not the luke versus ben fight Let's just hear that again. It's a contradiction Also, I noticed the lack of force powers in that fight if rags is referring to the throne room fight This is a straight up like malicious fucking move with editing Yeah, because I've got like one two three four like five people Saying that I was talking about the throne room And if you were talking about the throne room fight is relevant because kylo nearly dies because he forgot he had the force Yeah But but quintin is framing this as if I'm talking about luke and ben fighting. Yeah Whoa If that this is this is kind of why I kind of want the context now so we can find out if he is actually selling you short here That's um, that's pretty fucking scummy if that's the case See, I mean, I'm assuming there's a couple of people who are trying to look for it. I'm going to try and look for it as well Yeah, I've got more people saying it's the throne room fight. Um Uh, well, that's the thing. How could you possibly be mistake? How could you possibly? Accidentally play a clip of me saying something and then attribute it to just a completely different thing Well, this is the thing we gotta be careful Here's the thing like when you edit like the way that I edit I couldn't do that and like I physically wouldn't be able to do that and get away with it in my editing I guess it's not my style, but the style that I use Because I refer to things as they occur. I don't just take random little clips from a mysterious part And the thing I'm responding to and insert it somewhere I'm not going to be able to find it by skimming because There's no footage of the actual fight because he did this before so we just need some if anyone can find a a time stamp Then jenna hard, of course, is that they didn't edit the video. So yeah, I mean ultimately It's ultimately it's toro's fight fault because he approved it all and wait stone. He said rewind like 20 seconds and you'll understand Let's just play this whole thing to make sure we're getting the point here. This is within the star wars universe We're still being invented and expanded upon So what that means is that when you watch the films in any basic chronological order They don't make any sense because half of the force power stopped existing after rogue one I have to bring this up because in his video rag says that luke and kylo not using force powers against each other in their battle Is a contradiction. Also. I noticed the lack of force powers in that fight But that's only true under the standards. I was talking about the throne room scene I was I remember I remember Yeah, when I was recording that because I don't use the script. I just talked out my ass and I remember that the throne room fight I because there were no force powers I yeah Why I do remember now all with all the stopping us from being definitive on this is just getting that timestamp for you saying it Because as soon as we find out that it's the truth This is very bad for quinton um Yeah, I don't know let me see if I've I've probably got a file of it here Because this is the awkward thing is like, uh, I can't tell by scanning through a video other than if we had a transcript of it because obviously There's no visual as well for the fight because obviously it's only with trailer footage that he's got Uh, the film Yeah, I can arena that firing one thing that thoughts a lot of audio tracks Let's sword by size bully hunters steam-free speech battlefield to talk to the downward thrust for a five response untitled for me at net non-sec clip I It's so hilarious. It's like to be able to find out if this video is even accurate We have to rewatch your videos like thus you've totally failed at what the whole point of this video is But I think I am almost certain That indeed I was talking about the throne room scene When I said there was a lack of yeah He's he's attributing my comments about a completely different fight with completely different characters To another to a something that I didn't say that's um Maybe you should have rewatch brags video prior to this Well, we shouldn't need to do that. We shouldn't have to that's the point Like there was the point of a response if you have no idea what they're responding to But I'm pretty sure that um Yeah I mean again We'll just carry on and if anybody in chat comes up with a But I think he's completely taking the out-of-context here. Well, again as janis said, uh Is it quintin doing that or is it? Quintin sent the editors the timestamp to put in there. So it is still his fault, but it's also there It's like who the fuck knows And don't worry arco. Uh my the last of my um New asset should be done today Uh, but so it'll get you'll get stuff soon, but I it's it's at this point I'm convinced that I'm being taken out of context. I just don't know whose response Well, tiro is responsible, but who's who on the first levels? Yeah, it's because it's like technically it's tiro's video There's quintin's section in which he would have supplied the specifics about the Oh, someone said they found it one ten three four Wow, we're new at the end of your video, but we've still got like 50 minutes of this geez we went Because force powers in that fight also, of course ray does better than kylo does because Uh-oh Hang on rags. I can play this few as well. Oh, unless you're doing yourself in a nutshell Well, the throne room encounter with cotton. Yeah, it's about the throne room 100% Oh Jesus fucking Christ I'll just send you the url so you can have a look No, I I know what I I said I remembered but with the confirmation. Yeah, that's I was talking about the throne room scene rest in peace quintin you've Wow Fucked up miserably now instead of it being a matter of you being Uh disingenuous and like putting words in our mouth through interpretation like extremely crappy interpretation. You've actually repurposed a clip Jesus you've actually repurposed a clip to mean something else. So Wow, that's pretty fucking scummy That's just you know, how long are we into this stream now? So people who will eventually watch this it's an hour and 48 where we managed to actually confirm That uh quintin maliciously lied about rags to make him Come across as saying something that he didn't it's like that that shit's inexcusable, but hey Whomp whomp Yeah, we'll get over it, but quintin it doesn't make you look very good, mate. That's yeah, it's like I'm I was like, I'm not like harmed or anything over it. I'm I'm disappointed in my species He's a human sort of but It's like man, that's low And people were saying that this was a good video Well, they they'd be the people who have no fact-checking done. They'll just be like, yeah, it makes sense to me Yeah, man Here lies quintin Exposed exposition Anyway Someone's saying what's the problem? They're both talking about the fight in the throne room. Luke wasn't in that fight Yeah, no quintin's not talking about that one. Let's see. Let's see how much he pushes on with this I think you might be thinking about the throne room From the original trilogy I was talking about the throne room in last year Yeah, there's there is no fight that has kylo and luke other than the end of the film in which they don't use force powers Which is fair enough. So let's see what point he makes with this because he's he's now lied about what rag said But let's see what he extrapolates from it. It's a contradiction. Also I noticed the lack of force powers in that fight But that's only true under the standards of the prequels because there are numerous lightsaber battles in the original trilogy They use no force powers. Nothing. You are using a um Yeah, see so this is this is the issue is that uh, he's selling it as if you said That uh, the fact that is two people fighting they have to use force powers when I'm assuming by the way, uh The the the the reason you went with the throne room fight is because of the fact that the force would have saved kylo and he didn't use it Yes, it does seem as if kylo just I guess forgot that he could use the force Of course does seem to be sort of like a defining characteristic of his life but And he uses it remember in the force awakens he uses it as a snap decision to save his life from the blaster bolt that's coming right for him So, uh, it's a bit of a contradiction quintin But if you're talking about rags if you're referring to the luke and kylo fight I guess I'd have to agree with quintin that yeah They didn't really need to use the force in that fight and besides use projection So what's he gonna do? But it looks like you weren't referring to that fight Yeah, I oof. Wow. Yeah luke and press f quintin did not have a Yeah, I mean Luke and kylo did not fight in a throne room as far as I know and besides there's plenty of I mean, this is like a bathroom Maybe if that's where the emperor goes to the bathroom, it's sort of a throne room There's plenty of fights in the ot that use force powers. Um, he showed one where luke uses force jump We have obviously the force lightning we have The lightsaber throw from vader luke you could say that doesn't require the force But I mean the the the law of the movies imply that you need to be able to Use telekinesis to aim the throw of the lightsaber right like yeah And like someone in chat pointed out they do use the force and the kylo luke fight because that's why luke is there Yeah, luke is using the force to be there. So I suppose you could argue that it's just like no. Yeah, whatever The standard for this film that has not been applied to any other star wars movie It's literally in all the stars movies, but sure maybe other than episode four. I'll give you that but again Uh obi one versus vader like they didn't require force powers. Just like they don't require Throwing things or anything else like with with kylo. I don't see this is the thing It's almost implying that you made the point that luke and kylo should be using the force on each other Like throwing things and stuff, but you it's not even remotely anything you said like that That's the big issue here Before this Now some of you are likely going to argue that we do understand all of these powers that we've seen them used in practice And that they've been expanded upon in the lore But that's only true because in the past 40 years these films have been worshiped and expanded upon When episode five came out. No one knew what that junk meant. No one had explanations about I disagree People be able to use the force as uh It's self-explanatory by what we see when luke like pulls his lightsaber. We know that at maximum a minimum he can do that, sorry Yeah, and and besides um I just I It's not that we need an explanation as to how it necessarily functions as long as it's consistent with its Yeah, that's the thing you can add new things that can be consistent It just has to be consistent with the old things that came before it Metachlorians and and training it was just gobbledygook I was just referencing the prequels not episode five, but uh I so I don't know if you guys are catching on to the argumentation here, but he's saying that um It makes sense that it makes no sense in the last Jedi because it's never made any sense Now when you're at that point in argumentation, you're in trouble Like you you you're basically trying to say stop trying to understand it. None of it makes sense Like but it does Very clearly a bit bit awkward Even luke and leia being siblings and leia being able to use the force Are things that were invented late into the production of episode six So if you have to use that last minute episode six context to explain as long as it doesn't contradict anything That's fine. They could literally throw a scene on right at the end of any star wars film Where where someone does a thing with the force as long as it doesn't contradict what we've seen before They they're they're happy to go ahead and do it. That doesn't bother me Yeah I mean one thing I'll say is I'd be happier if they just repurposed the powers we have to do different things To be more impressive in that way. They don't need new powers, but hey very Very utility based too like telekinesis and pushing pulling I mean there's a lot of things you could do with that Also, you just he just said like episode six ads on all those things. It was five that did that uh not six You like leia having a connection to the force and being able to uh You know Communicating stuff is like that's that's not something that was invented by sex Conversely agreeable and explained upon in the first place and again when I am criticizing the previous star wars films For not having a consistency to a movie that came he's using quotations. I don't know to imply that Like isn't it it is is aren't you criticizing him? I mean even if you don't think they're criticism they actually are I think he just thinks it helps to keep quoting everything as if it's not really really that thing Yeah, that's the thing I mean now that we know the extent of his quotation capabilities. I don't know That's a smart move. We have no idea what he means. It's like what he puts up the quotes He means oh, so this is one of those fabricated quotes. I understand I am out in No Saying that those movies are bad. I am simply applying the standard used on the last Jedi to the other films No, you're not and if you were to do that you'd find all the contradictions. It's very simple We've been over this. I'm sure you think that you do but um There is a uh, there is a wide divide but what you think and what actually is To prove a point. Oh and while we're on this subject. Yeah force projection was in the rebels So you can just hop off. I don't know anything. Yeah rebels isn't the films. So Sorry, I don't know and rebels is typically looked at very negatively by fans from what I understand Compared to the clone was um, but again. Yeah, the Trying to explain the movies with something that happens in a cartoon show is like That's not why in chat. Why why is everyone putting a while why in the chat? Why you do this quentin? I don't know Oh, I guess I I guess someone said why divide. Oh, I thought I said wide I guess yeah, why yeah, because wide ends with a d and divide starts with a d So it's like wide divide. Yeah That's that's fair enough. Those are those are strange words to put together fucking high horse I achieve then states that he thinks the force is a really small extension rags mistakes This is a comment about luke. So I can't really respond to a misunderstanding, but it is an impressive rant So fair. Now. This is where we bring the voice point back rags calls out. I achieve Okay, this thing you're doing with the voices you need to stop it makes you look like a fucking prick This would be fine if rags hadn't done the exact same thing earlier and those who might say well He was because I wasn't doing mine disrespectfully I wasn't making my voice to make ihg look worse Well, I mean and I got compliments on my ihg voice Yeah, it's not the the aspect of putting a voice on it's like I it doesn't I had everything go like really high pitched and nasally Yeah, oh, yeah, he does. Yeah, it's clearly used as an insulting. Yeah, wait, but I wasn't being insulting to ihg at all I thought it was a fairly decent impression Especially because I put the face on and everything. Yeah, don't don't compare those two making a voice is not yeah There's like when a lot of people in to do an impression of like a woman and something they'll make their voice a little change a little bit It's not to insult the woman. It's just to show that somebody else is talking Yeah talking out of what you're saying is the difference between a mocking voice and a Quoting voice essentially Yeah, I mean I definitely wasn't doing it in a mocking voice. I don't have a problem with ihg's voice It's fine voice I mean as far as voices goes fine Rant so fair play now. This is where we bring the voice point back rags calls out ihg Okay, this thing you're doing with the voices you need to stop it makes you look like a fucking prick This would be fine if rags hadn't done the exact same thing earlier And those who might say well He was doing it in response to ihg's voice in the first place the first time around ihg did it was clearly a joke Yeah, I thought it clearly a joke there you go rags. Oh, so jokes can't be insulting. Okay. Nope jokes Glad we've established that Even though jokes are funny oftentimes the purpose of a joke is to insult, but yeah, it doesn't matter That's a joke that doesn't actually that's not a defense. In fact, I'd be like that's more evidence to the fact that he's trying to insult people Yeah, I'm so tired of him saying like you can't say that it's a joke. It's like oh for fuck's sake Yeah, because my voice wasn't a joke because I meant it in earnest. I was just Doing his voice because I was talking you know through him And I want everyone involved to die horribly whether you find that funny or not Its intent was very clear unless we're in scotland you can't look anyone up for that rags's ihg impression was an extension onto that Joke in which he attacked ihg's viewpoint distinction on the joke. It was mine wasn't a joke You literally just put on a british accent, didn't you I put on an american accent all the time in my videos people don't Usually assert it as you're trying to make americans sound lazily or stupid. It's like no, I usually just go for And here's the thing. I wasn't making a joke because I wasn't being insulting But let's say that we went with what the right opinion thinks We're both making jokes I guess he's trying to point out that I'm being hypocritical. Yeah I'm not so that's weird. Forgive me if I find that rags does not have the high ground to criticize ihg from at this point in time However rags follows this with a passionate brand about how he's doing it because he's so angry at other opinions It feels when his editor basically takes a good 40 seconds and just has a picture of you scrolling Yeah, I was I was actually kind of about to mention that too. We're kind of on the same wavelength from this one It's it's like it's again I'm more concerned with the substance of the actual video, but I find it interesting It's just like does that count as edited like you do is all you want because it's so inconsistent with the other Stuff where it has like flashy shit going on and Your pictures flying across and it's just like this is just a pause of 30 seconds with rags picture is like, okay I would have thought they'd want to have uh, tiaro's avatar on there at least but um, yes, it's really that's what I would do The editing is just so like you have no idea what's coming, you know He from at this point in time however rags follows this with a passionate brand about how he's doing it because he's so Anger at other opinions somebody on the internet is criticizing something that you like and you can't stand that It makes you upset. It makes your music, by the way I I could guess that much Somebody doesn't like the thing that you so they're obviously trying to say that uh You're doing the exact same thing you're accusing him of you're unhappy that he likes the thing you're trying to do Yeah, the fade to gray and the piano music in the back. Yeah Really like and for whatever reason generally I don't edit the things that I'm showing the other I know because now we we have no idea what of yours is actually there and what is theirs Like who knows I mean if we're going off that logic, I wasn't being dramatic. I was just being assertive Well, it's it's up to him if you're dramatic or not I remember he told you to calm down earlier when you said like a really prosaic fucking statement. So Yeah, I guess What if people would fit the prerequisite for outrage? It just seems like a dramatic piece to paint. I see the very mellow relaxed person with an opinion of some raging sjw It did you say that? I think I only referred to him as Anita once because of a thing that he explicitly said because he did something And Anita did once so I called him mockingly Anita Well, that means that you I don't think I I don't think I cheese an sjw. I don't know enough about him Yeah, like the the idea is like, you know, he's just like a sort of highlighted how like you're doing the same thing You're accusing I had everything I was like, well, how are you not doing the same thing then TRO? If we're gonna get that broad with the definition Are we not doing the same thing to TRO? That's the same thing to you. That's the same thing to I had everything That's the same thing to the people who criticized the last Jedi just goes on and on It's just so strange when he he paints me having a Like I was just like his thing I just sit down in front of this microphone and I just talk and generally pass the words that I use There's not really anything that's really going on behind it So if you have the fade to gray And you have the piano music playing And it's you know, it's originally my it's my audio playing over stuff that wasn't in my video It does paint, you know an impression that I don't think it's very Yeah, well Literally do what he did to any statement in any video and you could probably make it sound pretty dramatic Oh, yeah, you can completely change the context and the tone Um and therefore the meaning behind what people do if you just leave in their audio And add in some of your own and add some effects of your own Like what if it turned red and it started shaking it's like oh, it's yeah that it becomes angry Which he kind of did he played like angry music and put I hit everything's face on a devil so that you know Makes it look like you're trying to say that he's that angry I guess I he thinks I really hate I hate everything But as I didn't really have anything personally Against him that much. I mean he made a shitty video, but you know, no it was perfect But it was after your talk with him and how IHE went back on all that at the flip of a hat and basically discarded all of it That's when I was like, oh, that's kind of that's sort of that's a bit of a character thing right there Not that we haven't had enough of that from this video alone specifically from quinton, but hey IHE the very mellow relaxed person with an opinion of some raging sjw. It doesn't work. Not for me at least There's not one moment for me. Well, that didn't exist That wasn't because it wouldn't work because that's not what rags are said, but yeah, it didn't work because that's not what IHE comes across as the criticisms of star wars are seen as an attack on him It's just purposely provocative rhetoric from rags. Rags and this is general It's purposely provocative Rhetoric from I had everything and from you. What you just did was purposely provocative With the music or without it. Yeah, I don't even go there So there's no point problems and they're perfectly legitimate and not ones that we can really break down when they're spoken about so generally But IHE felt differently. These points are both fair enough at this point I'm sick of the star wars brand argument Leia and ray are shown to be extremely powerful and established force users Despite their blatant lack of training on the subject It brings up questions and inconsistencies that deserve answers from people who care about the universe And don't care about it just because it has the word star wars slapped on the cover of it There's been no evidence to suggest that just because he is attached to star wars as a concept somehow means he can't think about this film rationally Yes, it is I'm pretty sure that was like someone you've brought up a few times because yes, it is. That's why I played Mahler's clip Brand loyalty Comes in multiple versions informed and I believe that when it comes to star war There's no reason that star wars does not have people who have that Brand loyalty attached to you see it with consoles. We see it with video games and if you allow brand loyalty to Taint your objective lens or your critical lens, then you are ultimately Fooling yourself and you're not being honest with what criticism should be There's a ladybug in my room and it keeps flying up to me and I just realized the ladybug I was like, don't make me kill you. You're like in danger as far as I know Get out Throw it out the window Oh, well, I mean I just want to continue I can't be able to do that right now as long as it doesn't bother me It's just sitting over somewhere else in the room because I think they're kind of pretty it's just don't fly in my eyes That's preferable for me. Oh, yeah, yeah personal space At general point of a rational attachment to the brand was presupposed at the start where he called him a star wars Apologist and it's just been I mean I had everything since agreed to this perspective. So okay, so IHE is by definition A star wars apologist. This is not a point. You can win the right opinion. Yeah, they just like by definition I'm correct. He is an apologist. They think apologist means you defend it when you have no Uh, like argument to and you're just desperate to do it emotionally Yeah, secondly the right opinion you yourself in this video Ascribed emotion to his defenses You're making emotional appeal IHE is making emotional appeals that you have recognized yourself the right opinion Add that in with the fact that he is by definition a star wars apologist I would hope you can connect the dots remember he was like he's being uh Fuck it. I keep forgetting the world. That's the one. Yeah, it's always And how he keep the defense is always this is opinion that this is how he feels about it. This is all it's just like It's very simple. I wonder what he thinks apologist means It's all it's all feels and opinions and that's how he feels. That's how he feels. That's how he feels And then when I say yeah, he's feeling too much He needs to do less he needs to do less feeling more thinking all of a sudden Yeah, but you're not supposed to like mention it Yeah Shoe horned in throughout this video despite his numerous criticisms of the prequels IHE then says there's obvious foreshadowing well apart from the very You can criticize something. Love it. Yeah, not only that but uh, if you want rags to be specific I guess he's saying he's an apologist for the sequels of star wars as opposed to the prequels of star wars Yeah, and that's I'm only talking about this movie I'm talking about this move The video he's talking about is about this movie Like do you think rags is saying that I hate everything as an apologist for everything in the eu everything in the tv shows everything in any books Like I doubt it. I doubt that's what he's saying Yeah From foreshadowing that's all over the film rags challenges on this beckoning an explanation and that is fair enough I'm sure it wouldn't have taken that long for IHE to explain the obvious. Yeah, but yeah, but that's the movie you want That that's the video that you want Yeah, he did bring that up before I'm assuming that Just keep coming or shadowing in reference Can you please point to the foreshadowing scene where leia is an established force user to the point where she can Save herself and then float through the vacuum of space in order to save herself You have a that's not that's not that. Oh my god. That's so embarrassing Quentin. Oh my god. The fact that you put your face to this is embarrassing. What the fuck do you explain that at all? Really we're going with this just yeah when leia says luke says you've got the power to that means she could Fucking survive with a sassy little snap there too You actually think that because she has some connection to the force She can do that without any training no training so she can just survive the vacuum of space Float through Wow, that's one big oof right there. That is a oh that is an oof. Oh, you shouldn't have had your face there Let's let's get that Beautiful little click again because uh, yeah Oh, fuck. Where am I going you want to that's bad quinton As challenges on this beckoning an explanation and that is fair enough I'm sure it wouldn't have taken that long for aichi to explain the obvious foreshadowing in reference Can you please point to the foreshadowing scene where leia is an established force user to the point where she can Save herself and then float through the vacuum of space in order to save herself You have a power. I don't understand and could never have She even says she doesn't understand the power you Wet yeah, but that means you can survive in the vacuum of space. That's totally it just that's how that works rags She says the quote that she doesn't even understand it I wonder how much quinton needs to actually just understand the point What if leia was thrown into a star and then comes out of it? Okay, would that be enough for you? Would you finally go okay? Maybe that's a bit much Maybe that's not explained So sassy But if you're gonna be sassy be right. Oh god. Yeah, that's preferable if you're gonna be sassy You have that power too In time You'll learn to use you'll learn to use it as if lucas regularly survived the vacuum of space Oh my god Arguably if we had gotten to the end of her use in the sequel trilogy and leia hadn't used the force That would have been an inherent consequence. The only the only part she uses the force Is just when she senses luc Yeah, like that's it. There's no reason to and besides that's just basic bad storytelling to be like She's a force user and then later like down the line. She uses amazing force powers Like why wouldn't you show us that she's actually learned this shit instead of just saying yeah, that's just the way it works And besides i'm pretty sure either jj or ryan came out saying that leia hasn't had any training Like they they said that ryan's on who said that yeah, they hadn't trained. She just she just could do this now He said the her doing it is the equivalent of parents being able to lift cars off their children like in moments of great stress Like you you get like hulk hulk ish like strength because of adrenaline and etc And that's why she's about it's just like okay ryan just anything can happen at any point for any reason great We went from like someone said we went from sensing to levitation and sensing is the most passive Low energy. Yeah, like you could possibly ever have it doesn't even require Anything from you. It's just that you're observing something Like good job. You can observe a feeling in the force And you can't turn that into any offensive or affirmative You know action in any way You go from that to do what else rags as someone just pointed out Do you remember when they reached the rocks in the end of the last jedi and they're all like, oh, no We're screwed and then ray lifts them up. Why couldn't leia lift them up? Yeah, I mean jeez if she's so powerful quentin you're fucking idiot Man because there's an entire somebody It's almost Assistantly wrong and self contradictory. It's almost like the force powers Are exactly as powerful as the plot requires them to be It has nothing to do with actual characters having skills because that would be don't get in the way. Who needs that? Bad, okay. It's not good when you do that in your story. Do I need to be this explicit? Ridiculous so six just setting up the fact that in the future she will be able to use the force You can say yeah, that's a little bit different. Oh my god. That was though I don't know if you've got a different pause to me, but that's oh, no, it looks pretty shit It does have his face it if you call my stream now. Mary Poppins is pretty yeah Old lady floating around, you know, like Mary Poppins does Mary it's like the idea that layer like slowly moves a small stone with the force And then also she survives in the vacuum of space and quentin's like, yeah, same thing It's using the force same thing Very strange Hey, the scene is goofy. You can call it Mary Poppins s you can say it looks bad But you can't say it's not so much about contradiction of the lore As it is that it's not established Guys, I thought we didn't care about the lore winter Yeah Like who cares it's not that we're not saying that it's impossible for her to do it Because clearly she can because it's shown right he's taking the same approach He took with Yoda in the lightning It's that up until this point it he basically she just pulls this out of her asshole because the plot needs it Yeah, which is like a fundamental We never like it in any film when they do that or in any story We don't like it when characters get saved by a Deus Ex Machina. That's the point of the trope Nobody likes it when something happens and you're just like oh how convenient Yeah, it's it's lazy. He's like But she saves herself with her force powers. Yeah, it was like force powers. Yeah, she has those now. She can survive the vacuum of space Oh From now on there is a lot of back and forth and the discussion just makes you forget what the original point was I achieved was responding to such a great point about this video There's so much discussion left right and for you have no idea what the hell the point even is An argument the lack of explanation from the force had ruined it Since when a star was ever established a force power before just doing it Yeah, I tell you to remember the exposition from obi-wan explaining how the mind trick work. We don't need no It's not about that. It's about the contradiction Like I doubt did you go on a rant about how force projection skype cool shit ruins the lore rags? I doubt it I I can't remember And it's actually handled what I would say is much better They they use it for the payoff for luke in the end Which I got my own issues with but the fact is that they use it there when they've established it with just a Nebulous little conversation between the two of them at the beginning. It's just like oh You establish and then you pay off while the other ones. Yeah, sure Like we don't need it as long as it doesn't contradict That's what we've been saying for the past like 10 minutes Now there are obviously tiers of force usage in their extremity and some that may require more explanation than others This is a fair point to observe There is no real problem with this argument if you wanted more explanation then that is fair enough Some people just didn't view it as a necessity Although I personally think that there were elements that could have used a bit more such as lairs use of the force in Space not to detract from the good old banter and want to do a response Wait, what? Sick burn in with the lads. I'm confused. I need to see that again You like skipped for me. People just didn't view it as a necessity Although I personally think that there were elements that could have used a bit more such as lairs use of the force in space Not to detract from the good old banter Raj gets a sick burn in with the lads saying that I can see why moller didn't want to do a response video to this Because moller is above such immature charred play. No, no No, that's not what I meant absolute God, no, it's only fair to just assume the worst right that's the No benefit of the doubt as we've said is another common fucking trope of this video But he just disagreed with quinton by the way When he said the the lair force thing that actually is something that could use more explanation Well, no, it's just funny because it's like do you guys even recognize the fact that you disagree when you're trying to work together to respond to rags It's like person a says yeah rags. You're wrong because of x and then person b says yeah rags You're wrong. Wait. No x is fair And it's just like what the fuck's happening A complete and total Like wow he thinks that that he thinks that's what I meant Like even you at the end of your last jedi videos you talk about the you mentioned the moller or the iad video I responded to it. It's a video you can find on the part three description. I uh did it with two friends for the fun of it So it's uh, I meant I meant with um, I meant at the uh You mentioned it in your last jedi review. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and then I think later on you decided Yeah, sure. Why the hell not well those people requested it though. I please do a lie It's actually a progenitor for e-fap. Like it's kind of like e-fap. What is in that video? Um Let me um actually Can if you have a link if you have a link for it Can you put it in our discord thing because I'd like to look at it Bear in mind. I have no idea what's even said on it at this point because it's been so long Uh, but I remember being funny. I am with my video I can't even remember what I said. It was so long ago. Let me see if I can Should be in my list somewhere, but it's nice to be proven right Just not and I'm sure he didn't think that he would do that, but yeah I mean, let's be honest man. This video has been a mess like uh, we've joined harmful opinion Yeah, like I'm god. Yeah. Yeah, I needed I needed to take that from his video as a caption at this but unironically There it is um Yeah, thanks much. Uh, so Yeah, just oh there's gonna say because we covered a lot of shitty videos on this podcast, but like oh, yeah It's got movie bob in the title. It's funny that every one of them is like a different kind of bad like they all have the different Uh, I don't know the ways you break them down. Oh, yeah, patrick willems and movie bob and they're all different They're they're their own special kindness Hey, we're doing pretty well. I think the we're doing doing bigger chunks of the video We're getting through it. We're getting through it Sick burning with the uh, we've we're two hours and uh, 18 minutes Okay, we can go a bit longer. It's not bad Vlad saying that I can see why moller didn't want to do a response video to this because moeller is above such immature Child's play the god the man the moeller and if we set the snide comments aside, there are It's just such a bizarre inference that rags is calling me a god. It's like, I don't think so Yeah, I'm no No, I'm just like this video is frustrating and I could see why he moller wouldn't want to do it because video is frustrating Awesome arguments in the section that are relevant. In fact, there are some very good points regards to forced equivalences made There is a spectrum of force extensions some more reasonable others The rags does slightly get caught up in himself at the end of this part seeming to take aichi's sarcastic comment about Leia being force sensitive being bad writing seriously Don't even get me started on how luke and leia can all of a sudden read each other's minds Bad writing alert bad writing hacks. No, no, no, let me get this straight So leia is force sensitive and she can sense other force sensitive people. All right, that's been established That's okay. That's that's that's bad writing But leia who has received no force training gets jettisoned into space protects herself in a in the vacuum of space and then Flies herself back into a ship That's good writing. Yeah, so just to clarify for a uh, trox. He's clearly not getting it So I hate everything is trying to imply that the error the the point in empire that She shouldn't be able to sense luke is just as bad as leia being able to survive in the vacuum of space Yeah, and you have to explain that because there's not really much Set up for these clips. Yeah, and so obviously you're saying are you serious that Your defense is that it's just as bad that this thing exists in this other film It's like no, it's not Um, and he's gonna say that it was clearly a joke from I hit everything you've taken seriously and so doesn't count That's how that works Oh, even if it was it's like, okay Yeah, so as if you can't criticize a joke jokes are immune to criticism Yeah, I still wasn't wrong either way iG's point was that it was bad writing But if certain elements of the force being used in the past wasn't bad writing then this couldn't be bad either What about is a minute's finest form? We don't even give a shit right now We're talking about something specific and you're like, but it's bad at the other thing. It's like doesn't even matter Oh, yeah, well in this other movie It's like, okay. Well, that's another movie. We're not talking about that movie Yep With that said, there is a distinction that was pointed out However, once we move on from that, there is a point about the prequels where I actually didn't like the use of the force I was gonna say it seems like they swapped out just but I haven't seen a name swap yet So I guess not yeah, because I because they have the text with his words now which is Uncommon the way the force is used in the prequels too much like a video game for me Contradicts pretty much everything from the original story In the prequels you had a whole jedi temple. You had jedi you'd spanned a we said this too I hate everything in our conversation. I said if you had A massive amount of jedi and they all could use the force and then they were all fighting people Would you not expect force use? Like how would you know how it wouldn't be a contradiction to not have the force being used? Yeah And he was like it contradicts everything in the original. I was like how and it's like because yoda says like you should be more Uh passive or you should be more defensive or the force like that's yoda Who's saying that for one all the other jedi didn't say that and two How do we know that yoda didn't develop that perspective? Thanks to the prequels Like he was like look at all this war and this bloodshed He's like you should use it for defense Yeah, I don't see what's unwise or Like excessive, you know, it's I don't think it's being flippant using the force and combat like if anything that would be the time to use it Yeah, that's that's kind of what I'm coming from I feel like this is the place to use the force when you find armies of droids you throw them away you can Yeah Of all the places to use it defending your life and fighting for justice is probably the number one place to use it Like that's why even in episode two They did do the the fast run at the beginning of the prequels in episode one. I don't know if you remember that they do like a Yeah, the droidekis roll up and which I'd need to think about it. But if there is an instance where jedi could have used that Oh, yeah, like like people always highlight obi one could have used it to catch up with quaggon in The finale There's obviously the argument, but he was very tired It would be like, yeah, I know but it just it seems really unnecessary to have the speedy run Because it doesn't really do much. It's almost like it was an editing thing to just get them Like a poor editing done for coolness. But yeah in in the kill But again, you start to realize like hang on. Why are we talking about this? It's like The whether or not the prequels Uh contradicted. It's like we're talking about whether or not the sequels do So even if the prequels did or did not contradict that doesn't change whether or not whatever Yeah, and to assist my point Um In episode two you have anakin eating with padme and he floats the fruit into his hand And he says obi one wouldn't like be doing this like that would be like a flippant Use of the force that probably isn't necessary. It's done to maybe show off. Yeah, you know But in combat that would be completely different story Across the galaxy they use their force I mean it it makes even more sense that in the context of the prequels Jedi who are the protectors of peace who had a martial role to fulfill would use this obvious power For that purpose it is appropriate that in the prequels the jedi use so much force powers It makes sense in the universe that they're in in the setting that they're in it. It just it just makes sense And although you could make the argument that the force makes sense in the prequels It does seem cartoonish and definitely detracts from the charm It seems cartoonish it detracts from the charm both of those things would be subjective Unless you can actually get some more definitive language because if it seems cartoonish to you What am I gonna do like okay? Yeah, I mean it's you can't use the force in combat Like I gotta be honest because it looks too cartoonish whenever tRO is going to agree with you rags You'll find the most distant way of agreeing with you possible Yeah, man, that's I mean do you think that they honestly would be telling there Here's your labor easy laser support it cuts through anything except by the lasers and it protects your life But the force You can't use that in a fight for your life or to save other people because it might look cartoonish. Yeah I just don't get it. It's it doesn't hold up at all And yeah, so so so just said layers flying was cartoonish. It's like yeah, absolutely It looked dumb as fucking it's compared to mary poppins like you Oh From my point of view and I think they're both reasonable standpoints Then there's the case of what people wanted Luke to be I actually says that he wouldn't want to see luke fly around an x-wing and kill storm troopers with a lightsaber Sweet to me that sounds like possibly the worst thing ever rants our caster responds Yeah, that would have been so out of character for luke to do those things But you know, it would have been a character for luke skywalker murdering his best friend's son while he slept I love how clean that point is I'm waiting for how he's gonna skew it Like it's his opinion. It's a joke. It's hyperbolic. It's like All rags are said is it it would make sense for luke to attack storm troopers and fly around an x-wing I'm glad I haven't watched my video in months because I get to hear the joke over again It's like I forgot about it Yeah, that that makes way more sense. I I totally agree. That would total sense once again. I see both sides I want to make more sense I see both sides really tiaro. I see I see what's up. But which one makes more sense Murdering his best friend's son while he slept. Yeah, that makes way more sense. I totally agree. That would total sense once again I see both sides. I want to sound indifferent But I definitely didn't want a completely buoyant x-wing luke either even in light of the original art I'm talking about what you want. We're talking about what makes sense. God damn it It makes total sense for luke to fight storm troopers and fly in an x-wing That's like his thing. I'm not saying This is the thing you haven't said that that's what you want. You've said that's what makes sense And when you haven't said that's what the not what it's just like why are you changing the conversation rags hasn't said Oh, let's discuss what everybody wants out of this film Just like it's just about being in character Has he forgotten that luke is like an established character? And hell I would hell fucking take that in a million times over what we got on the last Jedi Hell yeah, I will I'll take badass john wick style luke over this mopey grumpy sad uncle Who just wants to die He just wants to die like yeah, of course. I'll fucking take the the fucking former A lot has changed once again I think rags takes eye cheese comparison to yoda to literally sounds way too similar to what we got with yoda in the Prequels the comparison to yoda is clearly a lot more on just don't Don't turn in fear what I had everything was saying and interpret that was very strictly obvious He said that if luke was in an x-wing flying around or killing stormtroopers, it would be too close to what we got with yoda in the prequels Which is what the fuck? like this is the way Yeah, there's so many questions first of all was what they did with yoda bad was what they did with yoda out of character Was what they did with yoda in the prequels even relevant to an idea of doing it in the sequels Would luke doing that be definitively bad? Could what yoda have done in the prequels have been done good if they had a better director slash writer? It's like so many questions and he just throws it all out. He's just like nah luke doing that too much like yoda doing that okay Such substantive arguments man, it's like I thought It was like I think most people after watching the last jedi would be like hell. Yeah, I don't have a cool bad ass luke Geez no that's offensive Just a changing of the character level with new context is like yoda in the prequels with that It would have seemed more out of character. He's like it's like yoda in the prequels with it. It's like a picture of ray It's like uh, why did I have a hair? And then back to luke, but um It's gonna be an overall point about luke. I think New context is like yoda in the prequels with that it would have seemed more out of character for his presented age and maturity I think it's a tough job to reimagine It would have seemed out of character. I love that he has to keep saying that instead of actually It is definitively out of character in the film or it would have seemed to to maybe have done the other thing It's like I'll take seams over is It's like just and I end the point about it wouldn't be right because he's old No, man. Yeah, we've we've heard that many times from the not so great debate. We're just like make an argument without saying He's old. Okay. Well, he's old Yeah, man, stop Invent a character and although I agree. I don't really like the luke we had I can't say I would have preferred a energetic youthful luke because age is Necessarily energetic And you don't have to prefer it rags is talking about what's consistent. How much energy does How much energy does it take to sit on your ass in an x-wing? Yeah, that's what he could have done. It's like bombastic and the next one And then and then it's the false dichotomy as well. It's like we could have had anything in between could have had luke who's just a stoic You know commander of sorts And he's he's trying to get the best thing done with the situation at hand instead of being like I want to go to my island and die like, oh That sounds okay Not necessarily To what we got but I think using an old arc to lend expectation to a new one is Objectional as well so I can see why I actually took issue with it. So no it's not dishonest to compare the two This discussion comes back to I actually calling this so my pauses are taking ages to come through now. It's kind of weird Uh not objectionable to compare the two. I'm not even sure that What did you say it was objectionable to compare the two rather than just pointing out that It's not out of character for luke to kill stormtroopers I think that's all I said. We don't even know because he's just telling us that yeah God My way of editing is mean is here and better right to disagree characters Yeah, I got like I got like a five second delay on the pause play button right now Oh, then I think my interest actually like tis me up a bit and hopefully it gets better behaving Unbelievable in established ways than a universe that makes sense for to have them doing the things that they're doing Is not useless fan service, but nothing particularly newest stated here This is nothing more than a fundamental disagreement yielding a further disagreement Then it is badly pointed out by IHE that hamill expressed a changing of mind on the project before sharing the context This rags them retorts that a statement like this is outweighed by all the foot is shown And then assumes hamill's intentions that he's trying to keep the peace Yeah, guys, he made a twitter post that totally has far more meaning and weight than the things he said to his audience This is the problem with the decontextualized interviews that have been shown they present Well, yeah, the interviews that you didn't play The interviews that you had in your video tRO that were edited so fast. We could not hear them Yeah, don't you fucking talk about the interviews out of context you piece of shit Yeah, I don't think you can talk on this subject He can't talk on this subject because he's he's ignored the evidence and not prevent presented it. So why even bother? It's just like There this is insane coming from him talking about how the interviews are out of context and he played them Sped up so fast. You could not get context like fuck man. I'm really tired of the no context arguments as well it's like Mark Hamill makes definitive statements that don't require a context to improve or deprove what he means by them because he's very Clear the jedi do not do what they do in this film. Luke would not do what he does in this film It's like simple and then you go, whoa, what about the context where he says he likes the film It's like that doesn't change what he just said I mean, I am shocked that people would be like, oh, yeah, Hamill likes what they do It's like no, dude, that's insane Such a sultry atmosphere of a miserable mark Hamill with his heart to forget how Anticipative he clearly was of the film throughout multiple interviews Even in a lot of the interviews that he talks about creative differences. He does not seem to learn, you know, I was gonna And yeah, he doesn't like show clips of him being really excited about the film He just says that that's a thing that happens Don't show all those clips I had in my video of the thing that you said he wasn't doing That might make your point seem a little wrong, wouldn't it? Can't be having that one team is claiming There's there's a lack of context and they show no clips another team is claiming The the other person lacks context and they show clips It's like which one am I gonna believe more probably the one that shows clips to support their arguments Tends to be a bit better personally But I just can't really stand to see mark hamill destroyed and sad on the inside Personally, I find this constant moral hammering of mark hamill quotes to be pretty tiring moral Because both mollard and rags try to argue when mark hamill is lying And they're standing when mark hamill is lying Show me a clip where I said mark hamill was lying You piece of shit. Yeah I had never said mark hamill lied Paul saying that mark hamill is lying Because I know what he's referring to it's gonna be the when people say mark hamill's positive about the film that we said No, that's a lie. I never said that was a lie I love how he says it that way by the way rags where he goes lying because he knows we didn't say that He's saying it. Yeah, I was like, are you begging the question? Are you trying to lead? You know the audience somewhere But again, like this is not shocking coming from quinton. This is just standard Standard for this seems to be based entirely around when he does or does not agree with them. What when he says something Yeah, it was only I didn't show clips of mark saying the things that Disagree with what I think he was only things that he he agrees with that agrees with me It's not like in my videos I actually said that mark has been positive about the film and that it's likely because he wants to try and die Down the actual toxic discussions It's not like that's the thing that I have said in my fucking videos that you apparently watched quinton You said in this video that you watched them If anything, I mean it's possible Hamel was lying because his tweet goes against everything that was said by him previously But he was he could have been doing it from a good place Like he could have been like Luke could in besides those were like two different issues Just wait a way to demonize me and rags. It's like must be so much fun to just argue this way Luke can simultaneously say both of those things and there's not a lie Right. He can call for unity and he could say that the movie Isn't bad Now he can do that He could say that he's proud of the film and everything and at the same time He can also express how he doesn't like the way his character was done Those are not contradictory things and as you can hear right now me and rags are happy to accept that Luke mark hamel thinks the film is good. That is fine So it's absolutely okay. I think the film is good Yeah, but it is odd if he's depending on what mark said It would be strange considering all of his behavior prior to that was the thing if you were to ask him maybe he did lie and or about his feelings in order to Be unified to get that's the other thing who knows if he actually lied to start to the You know like it's possible It depends on what was actually said Like this is such a bizarre point because uh The maybe maybe he was lying for a good cause Also my again, it's like showing out. Give me one second. I'm gonna try and see what quiet there. I can't hear you I'm gonna try and see if I can Make my internet a bit better. Hang on Yeah This is like a on discord. It says I've got like a one bar, which is not reassuring Trying to enable my Ethernet is not working Connect you bastard The last thing I need is to actually disconnect entirely that would be bad Uh, I don't want to risk stopping the entire stream. So that'd be really annoying So I guess I'll just have to go with it. Can you hear me? Probably not Well, I can hear you and you're coming through. All right Yeah, it's like a really big delay seems to be what's happening one hour 1406 Oh, yeah, that's fine. I'm just trying to um, give me one second. I might disconnect for a little bit. All right Do you want me to go through like well, I guess I can't I can only see so many All right, I got you. Yeah, it says I'm connected with ethernet, but it's like super fucking slow Yeah, that's not reassuring at all people Yeah, people in the stream are saying uh, they can hear you Yeah, it's weird. Uh, I've got no control of my free up some ram the cringe caused an overflow It's like I've got I can't I can choose between a wired connection or a wireless one and uh, Sometimes they offer different results. It's really weird. And so I'm trying to watch together I'm trying to switch them right now and it's not even letting me uh, Do anything with my internet connections, which seem to be a bit broken Not reassuring at all Yeah, because it's disconnected my wi-fi successfully, but I can still talk to you which means my internet is still connected Very very odd. I apologize for anybody who's waiting to actually have things happen while I sort this out Um It says my wi-fi is disabled and I have the option to disable it. It's like, uh Any second now I'm expecting to just go down Mr. E-fap. I don't feel so good Yeah, it's bizarre. It says even on discord. It just says I'm connecting Let's hope the stream is still up I don't hear rags anymore. Now it's probably gone down Fs, can you hear me? Oh, I can hear you now. I have no idea what I'm even connected to both my ethernet and my wi-fi are disconnected But somehow I'm talking to you All right, I guess they couldn't hear me for a while But I that's that strange connection stuff because I couldn't hear you Uh, the stream didn't go down, but apparently they couldn't hear me But we should be back. I think it went down for a few seconds. Hopefully it's back up, uh Something like that, but you're hearing me pretty quickly. So let's just hope that that's let's just carry on shall we uh 14 1405 Yeah, one. Yeah pretty much When he says something bad about the movie, well, that's him stating his opinion And we should feel bad for him and we should cut that quote out and put it in our videos. What who is this? Wait, wait, they point out that we played the same clips. It's like, yes Yeah I'm I'm so first off. That's not my name. My name is not rag second off If you do a review on the last jedi And somebody else does a review on the last jedi And you both have footage from the last jedi Do you think that it's a legitimate criticism of both of your videos if you play the same footage? No, the second that you have a similar clip from any source you you're invalid like you you're pushing an agenda Does he realize that if you go to youtube and you type in mark hamill The third thing that pops up is mark hamill hates the last jedi And these are videos that have 100 millions of views. This is one with five million views 370,000 150,000 670,000 Like these are these have millions of views on youtube Are Well, I mean the narrative here is that we only play clips that support our arguments when again I accounted for in my videos so idiots not understand that Especially at the time it was like one of the first things is not the first thing popping up for his name especially But these like these are clips that have millions and millions and millions of views Like these are really big popular clips Of course, we'll both use them. It's him saying the thing Exactly and and to to imply the again in my video. I account for the positive things that mark has said they're ignoring that and it's really bugging me But uh, you know They're talking about using specific clips to sell a narrative And it's exactly what they've done to us and we didn't even do it in the first place. This is why This video is so fundamentally bad in so many ways This is awful quinton. Like you're just a shitty person Like you've just you're just not your arguments are garbage But holy fuck, you're just a shitty person for doing this definitely doing shitty things Like it's like how do you how do you expect me and rags to respond to this shit? Like we're just gonna go Oh, yeah, that's totally fair. It's like, yeah, it's like, of course we fucking use the same clips We're both trying to make the same point in support of our overall agreement that this film was terrible Because both moller and rags try to argue when mark hamill is lying And they're standing I love he just doesn't show a clip of that too That's a big claim that me and rags is saying that mark lies at certain points. Rags is short for joseph stallin But you'd think like if we claimed that he was lying in a particular clip That would be a clip worth showing, you know You'd think but I mean they can't be fucked to show the rest of my clips really just little tiny bits Standard for this seems to be based entirely around when he does or does not agree with them When he says to make bad about the movie well, that's him stating his opinion And we should feel bad for him and we should cut that quote out and put it in our videos I mean, yeah, how did the most optimistic? Oh, I love that they're playing this as if it's some kind of revelation. Yeah, we have similar clips Yeah, these are videos on youtube that have millions of views There's like 50 different instances of him saying this stuff me and rags have drawn Many and some of them are going to be the same because how would they not be and I and I asked you for where you got some of them Exactly. Yeah, I remember you said I sent you a link. Yeah, I was like Yeah, I was like I said the interviews that you showed, you know I because I asked you if they were full interviews or just clips Because I wanted to get you know, like the full interview see what else was in those interviews And I messaged you and said can you link me to them? And I question how the hell would we even know if this is from our videos? What all you've done is play the clip out of context with rags is video and mohler's video on it And it wouldn't even matter because everybody on youtube who has a video of this clip playing Will be the exact same Because it's the same interview playing and you know what's hilarious to think Is that someone could be like have you noticed that? TRO's videos and rags and mohlers all share this one clip of Mark Hamill as if to try and sell it So that he's unhappy and then we just play this like oh look your video has the clip in it now Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah now your video has the clip in it We already know they're running an agenda here as well So it's kind of just funny the point all these things out Character in the galaxy turned into this hermit But when he says that he likes it. No, he's lying. He's trying to keep the peace. He's not being honest. Yeah Yeah, you catch that you catch that he's lying. He's trying to keep the peace. He's not being honest What I said was I think he's trying to actually calm everyone down Yeah, that's it. I never said he was lying He might be he doesn't think we don't know we don't know for sure If I saw all of those clips of the way that he felt about you know the film in the movie And then he comes out and tweets something I'll be like, yeah, he's probably lying just to keep everybody together, you know But if anything, I can believe that he's like kind of a good guy It's like he goes from being very aggressively negative about the film's choices And then soon after loads of interviews coming out where he's like, no, okay You know, let's let's it's just a movie. You know, it's fine Don't worry about it. Like don't need to get so angry about it. It's fine. Ryan Johnson That's that's what we do. We ruin childhoods if you see that clip where it's like, yeah He's he's just trying to die it down. He's like, okay, let's calm down We don't need to actually start threatening to fucking Lose our shit over a movie because ultimately that's what that's what it is But it's that's Mark Hamill's perspective on the subject Like we that's what that which is his opinion. I can't believe I'm saying this That's Mark Hamill's opinion Quinton. That's that's that's down to him Doesn't mean that the stuff he said before didn't happen But our opinion is above his so Our opinion he's just lying that that part doesn't count. Don't don't put that in the video I've had trouble accepting what he saw for loop But again, I mean, I have to say having seen the movie I was wrong. Which of those things do you think is more like what Hamill the actual interview on that? So I I can't I Yeah, as far as wasn't the actual interview Yeah, as if like we could have just done the exact same thing to TRO We could have said see played that clip out of context. Let me show you the actual interview and then you play our clip Yeah, and it's like oh, so what you're arguing is that me and rag should have played the entire interview in our videos Very strange, but we're not gonna do that. We're trying to prove that luke disapproved of uh, that mark disapproved of luke's Character choices we show the clip in which he says it we move on Do you have a problem with that? It's like basic journalism Yeah, and right now here's the thing. I'm not ready to take kwinton at his word. No, yeah when he plays a clip that doesn't have Complete full in total context before what mark is saying here Like I'm I can't I can't do that anymore with most people I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but I can't that's the thing I cannot do that with kwinton I am perfectly ready to You know accept that he lied about things as he's done in the past And you can tell as well you can't trust kwinton just the tone of like and the delivery of what mark is saying. It's very like Okay, but I don't I don't hate like it's it's not it's not as bad as I just made it sound You know, why would you have to say it like that? Yeah, he's he's clearly straddling the line between what he feels and what Go away. I'm no caller and he's and mark is very aware of that his words go far So he's always trying to be very careful as a fight to go Where his words are going? And you know someone's saying that I put the tweet saying he liked it. Yeah, it's like I Um And yeah, like I said in my video the audio clip after the interview when mark hamill goes home and lives his daily life And like I said, I said the I I'm pretty sure the words I say in my script Mark has gone back on some of the things that he said I think I say that in my videos But I know that I definitely account for the fact that he said positive things about the film I made sure to so that people like kwinton couldn't say this, but they didn't fucking work did it Yeah Are not a higher authority on what mark hamill means Then mark hamill himself. Yeah, neither are you kwinton. Yeah So That's the end of that composition. You're doing the thing that you're accusing us of doing again Like no, that's a huge surprise They cannot claim that they're inside of his mind Uh, do you remember claiming you were inside mark hamill's mind rags? No, I just I just make inferences based off of all the information I have at my disposal I I remember the opening of my videos. I said, um, I've been inside mark hamill's mind I I shrunk myself down and looked at everything he feels and thinks So, uh Yeah, thank you for bringing that up kwinton though I think it would have been better to show the clip of me saying it just Putting it out there as a suggestion for next time Because they are not I do not accept them trying to sit around and cherry pick which mark hamill quotes count And which ones do not yeah, we didn't say that so fuck you all this emotional mark hamill content has escalated to the point Where it is reasonable to read mark hamill's mind and state his intentions like we know them better than anyone else Yeah, we didn't do that. So fuck you how many times I have to say this I mean it's like how many times do you have to see mark hamill? Just dejected In sad, you know, it's funny. Uh, we play all these clips And then their takeaway from it is rags and muller think they're inside his mind. It's like we played his clips It's like, I just can't you look at the clip? This is again, this is when it comes to the right opinion This is why maybe he didn't play those clips Like I notice no notice that so far. We haven't seen any clips of hamill You know except for that one instance of where he put our side by side But he did that to make us you know try and look bad for a stupid reason But he hasn't actually played out those clips of him saying the things that we say he says They deliberately avoided having those clips be played. Yeah, like again for the chat The most insidious things that are said about me and rags always have no clip to follow It's like, oh, yeah, they are this and they say this I'm not going to show you a clip of that because it's just clear that that's the case like uh-huh Very glad like what's the biggest thing we've put against quinton in this entire stream And both streams is the fact that he completely repurposed a quote from rags to make him say something he didn't and we proved it We didn't put that as that we played the clip from rags because I did it on the stream Obviously, I don't know if rags heard that but he would have seen it as well It's just them The very big difference between doing research and showing you're working And you know what that does it makes you have long videos, you know That's something that happens when you try and prove your points Not saying That you can't have a short video that proves points and not saying that you can't have long videos that don't prove points I'm saying that it's very lame to uh take two hours to make this video and not even include The most damning quotes you have to make them up is Where i'm coming from Just cherry picking Because of these compilations if the twitter post follows the interviews and yes, his feelings may have changed and you have no reason to assume We do We're just going by we're going by what he has said And I will put I will I will every day I'll put Actual live interviews of him with his face and his tone and his expression The words he says that come out of his mouth above A twitter post I'll do that any day of the week And yeah, they've spent it so long on this point when it's just wrong from the base about what we did so It may as well skip past it otherwise regards of how much you'd like to hypothesize that he's trying to keep the peace It is just well, you know what tRO is just our opinion then isn't it? Yeah, it's our opinion of why mark is doing what he's doing Yeah, why can't you just let us have our opinion like you sell that as your fucking defense throughout this entire video But then you like just don't afford it to us whenever you want to criticize They don't know they don't know this they can't be inside his mind Yeah, but as if that's a counter to something we've said like that we've said of course we're inside his mind Yeah, but we back it up We're like look at all these clips look at all the things he said look at his face Look at the way he acts look at all these examples that back up the thing that we say Then you're like oh, yeah, you don't have absolute certainty of what his actual thoughts are like And it just so happens that the people saying that the people who fucking love the last Jedi is like, oh I mean aside from tRO I suppose but in fairness, we don't know what he thinks about the Mark Hamill clips because he's just defending I hate everything So like he has to go against this point no matter what his position is already solidified by the fact that you criticize I hate everything on it I mean it's just really strange that when you go online and you see all of these people looking at him like the vast majority I'm not saying it's right because of this But the vast majority of people come away with the impression that he was really bummed out about it And this is the thing this is this is special I didn't even think that would be a controversial thing if you guys watch the interviews that are done on the red carpet Or like the press stuff they're always so positive and so nebulous They'll be like Oh, yeah, the film is amazing because it has the best stuff in it and things and it's great and you should go see it Not only was mark negative if he was specific Actions character What's it said in the chat? They can't be inside is my hypothesis in the interviews Oh, yeah, they'll know exactly what we're thinking but we can't know what mark's thinking. Oh boy Where mark hamill says he still hasn't fully accepted the character He then goes on to say that he believes ryan johnson was the best man for the job He's also gone on to say that if the film is bad, that's ryan johnson's fault How about we play that clip? Here's the thing man, if you say two things back to back that are inherently contradictory It's just one of them's just not going to be true That's the thing and maybe maybe you don't realize it at the time when you say it That doesn't mean that you're saying these things in malafides, you know, but that's just the way it is I mean feelings don't matter in that scenario It was him being truthful and the next is just him trying to keep the peace You can't just pick and choose what parts of mark hamill are being honest to suit your agenda I actually then play the clips and we're hypothesis with the point that also Sorry, the pause delayed as fuck for me. Um Yeah, like it just refrained from showing us a clip where we say he's lying or that he's being honest Just keeps stop doing that so we can't actually account for what we've actually said Just keeps saying that's what we said You're inside our mind tiaro It is or not writers or directors necessarily creative conflict between actors and directors is incredibly common But your job as an actor is to fulfill the director's vision not the other way around ranks them response That's not even who cares when that's not even the point It's not like if mark's opinion if mark hamill says the film is bad That doesn't make the film bad Of course, that's just true But is it not interesting the guy who's connected to luke skywalker the closest the guy who actually plays him Has said that it's a complete betrayal of his character. Do you do not think that's interesting to think about? It's not proof that the film is bad It's a very interesting piece of information Yeah, it's certainly Yeah, it's certainly worth, you know, worth thinking about in great detail Like why would you think that and then you'd be like, wow, that's that's pretty big of an actor to openly say that in interviews like he must be He must have felt pretty uh emotional about that Yeah, he was pretty convinced Shit and was at odds with the established lore of the universe and the characters that had experienced and earned their arcs prior Neither of these statements really contradict each other. They're both valid in their own way Where more dispute comes into play is where I hate everything then suggests that the fact that disney was willing to hand Their biggest franchise over to one guy who has never directed anything close to the scale before is commendable Rags counters this by suggesting that it was wildly Irresponsible both of these points have merit There is a wholesome appeal to content not churned out by studios with suits and often it can have more heart But it also means the scope for failure is a lot more wild and there's a lot less control and accounting for creative decisions Rags returns. I mean and looking back in hindsight. I mean Tell me i'm wrong Tell me i'm fucking wrong now that we've had all these months to watch what's happening with star wars Tell me i'm fucking wrong By criticizing aiichi placing blame on jj abrams for introducing unexplored concept Honestly, I think a lot of the blame for some of the fans problems with the story should be more on the shoulders of jj abrams He's so obsessed with this mystery box idea. Well, that's just the thing, isn't it? The force awakens for all of its flaws did something really well and that was set up a potential amazing sequel It really depends on whether you think the ideas that jj abrams presented Do you disagree with that? No, uh, literally get the greatest writer in the world and they can work with what jj provided as a base. Yeah I'm kind of asking to ro here like out you know out in the aether. I'm just like is that something that really you think is I don't really controversial enough to I don't love his obsession with the mystery box There's more to do with the fact that jj doesn't know how to pay off He knows how to set up because it doesn't take much to set up. That's what I hear about him all the time Yeah, and that's the thing so i'm happy to throw jj at the beginning I wouldn't have him on my project at all to be honest. There's other things I have issues with but You could have had a great the last jedi that was a follow-up to the force awakens Were workable enough to condense into the next director storyline The best analogy that I can think of is that it's like abrams building a framework for the next movie But if the next director comes along with a different idea then the framework may have to be adjusted with certain parts Yeah, well, that's not his prerogative. He can't just ignore what came before and he's making a fucking sequel What do you think a sequel is? Yeah, what's the yeah if he if you ignore the framework if you just go off and do your own thing entirely If you don't stay faithful to what came before you, what's the point of it being a sequel? Yeah, you may as well just say, oh, this is a spin-off movie called star wars luke is a coward Because this is the project i'm running with And watch how many people want to go see that out of all the spin-offs you can make Geez Not now whether that's on abrams or not is completely subjective Hopefully this was caution for the studio to think it's not subjective Think about what they set up in their film before they hand it over This discussion is followed through to specific examples like snow And though I do concur that johnson should take the blame for not exploring snow and ray's parents at all having two No, no, ray's parents were done That part of the movie was finished. It was pretty much done. Yeah, we didn't we didn't mean it was done We the problem is um with snoke. Anyway, like I always the big problem with snoke is that he makes everything happen in this Sequel trilogy. He's the big connecting force between the originals and the new ones. It's like snoke Uh turned kylo. He brought the first order back and he basically crushed the republics like, okay, so who is he? Where did he come from? Yeah, and it's just like, oh, okay Okay Fuck you movie Uh And i'm just waiting for it to be like it's subjective if you want to hear snokes history. I'm curious It was a vast concepts would have been a lot to work into a script though I did feel snoke especially could have used more background and frankly I think a lot of the audience for these films didn't care about these things Where do we begin with that statement? Oh Okay, I am curious how you have reached that conclusion. Yeah. What's uh, what's your criteria there quentin? Point out by both moller and rags There are scenes in both sequel trilogy movies discussing how the lineage of ray doesn't matter and as for snoke Who cared about holy shit? Really? Who cared about snoke? Uh, so do you want to just um Say I cared in chat if you cared about snoke cape from I cared Yes, I cared about the overarching villain of a trilogy I cared Jesus christ I certainly don't care anymore because they fucking ruined it. But uh, man, I cared Who cares about this incredible? That are incredibly important Central character to the plot of the trilogy. Who cares who cares about Literally what explains why the sequels even take place Who cared who cares you're right quentin who cares who cares I've seen a lot of reviews where people said that smell because no that's a different thing That's a totally different. Yeah, besides whose fault is that to say it's a boring character. It's like, uh And if anything that's like a self-fulfilling prophecy, they wrote him to be boring So then people didn't care because he was boring He's important Arguably even in the original trilogy Darth Vader was the one that everyone cared about and the emperor was just sort of a generic Slightly more evil baddie that Darth Vader we had palpatine's history He was in control of the empire the empire is an established government that essentially lords over the galaxy We the stakes are set and then palpatine's destroyed and yet the first order still exists and there's a new palpatine It's like what where did that come from? Well, yeah, now that everything's been set up and established. We're like, oh People always where we are now is different than where we used to be people always relate it to how palpatine is the same of Snoke which for one thanks to the prequels you can't say that so Yes, give it up and two, uh, we didn't have any information before episode four So we didn't know we didn't need to know how palpatine got to where he is We just need to be told that's how it works But when you make a sequel to his seven fall and destruction of the just say now everything's the same That doesn't make any fucking sense It's the idea as well that you don't need a history and a character because they're boring I just don't know what you think you're arguing at that point in terms of a positive quality It's like who needs the good stuff when you don't even want words It just says words thoughts Sort of it's like who coherent ideas who needs them God quentin stellar at this. He was like obsessed with responding to my videos Like could you imagine how bad it would have been if he had? Oh, geez Later could kill so that he could be avenged and suddenly be a good guy No one really cared about the emperor before the prequels. He was just we have the prequels Uh, do I need to ask who got who in chat cared about palpatine before the prequels? It's like you fucking kidding me. Stop saying these sentences as if they're true. This is exactly what they say that we do Christ sake you're gonna what what are you doing quentin? Let's let's just give him the same Attitude that tiaro gives us rags Hey, quentin. Have you got inside the minds of every single person who ever watched star wars? Is that what you've done? Let's do let's do better. Let's say let's go with him Let's go with his idea that nobody cared about palpatine. Who cares. We're talking about snook Exactly It's what about ism as well. It's so bad Let's go with the fact that nobody cared about palpatine. He was just there to be whatever fine We're not talking about palpatine from this other movie We're talking about snook From this movie and the previous movie All right Try to stay focused This what about ism does not help feeling that we were all waiting to die And there was basically no attempt to do anything other than make him look evil and kill him off And no one really expected them to do anything else In my personal opinion taking the head evil baddie and having him get killed off and replaced with kylo ren Which doesn't make sense because well, that's the most interesting thing they could have done because it leaves us at a Well, that says a lot about your fucking capacity for imagination And we didn't dispute whether or not it's interesting to kill off a leading baddie as a concept That could be very interesting. It's their execution and the fact that they forgot to give him a fucking history I mean ryan clearly was and the thing is ryan was clearly aware of it He had that stupid snook theory card. I just I love the idea of telling the star wars community They don't really care about palpatine the same cheese No star wars. But remember remember he can get into our heads Not just individual heads, but but that of x many people. Oh, yes the god forbid Done something like this before for the first time in a long time I feel like I can confidently go into episode nine Knowing that it's going to be something that I haven't seen in a star wars movie. Yes star wars has never been this fucked before Exactly. There's nothing we can't expect anything anymore because there's nothing to work with They're going to have to invent a shit ton of stuff to actually have a storyline because Another there's got nothing to work with I mean, yeah, you're never going to see anything like it But people people always say that right before the worst movie they've ever seen too I'm glad you're so invested in episode nine quintin. You you go girl. Yeah And really think about it what reveal could they have possibly done that would have been satisfying in any way when that's fucking ridiculous He's saying that they didn't have come up with something. What a sad Piece of advice for writers. This is this guy is a reviewer and he's like hey writers Why even bother doing something with snook other than just killing him? What would be interesting beyond there's nothing that you could have done that's interesting about snow You couldn't I mean like really Quentin before these stupid words left your fat lips You couldn't have gone online and like googled snook theory and no they're not interested all of the really neat things None of them are interested. They're all born Okay, no one you know what's interesting. I forgot to slice him in half and make him fall over and then everyone laughs at his corpse That's way better As I you exactly was as video gamer says in the chat. You couldn't have done better. So screw it. Don't Don't bother give up writers. Just don't bother writing anything good. Don't bother just he's dead No story. No nothing. Just don't fucking bother when it comes to snook There's this video called how star wars should have ended. It's a part of that series Most of you guys probably know it and they did a pitch for how the last jet I should have ended and it looks like a much worse film But they included a scene where it turned out that snook was Darth Plagueis. Okay, so many people had yeah And it was done in in jest. Obviously you can see right here. They're like, he's Darth Plagueis y'all because it's like We'll settle for that now because obviously the ideas of him being nobody suck Fuck it. I'll take it. Yeah, snook is Darth Plagueis the wise. Let's do it I was not expecting them to do Darth Plagueis. I was not expecting them to do Jar Jar Binks I was not expecting them to do Mace Windu. I was not fucking expecting them to do nothing That shit is the last fucking thing I was expecting them to do. Holy crap And it's like, oh, yeah, well, you just did like because you did expect it It's like no, they could have done Mace Windu and I wouldn't have expected it. I would have been like, oh Okay I wonder what that means And it's like if it was Darth Plagueis at least he would have made said We were like, oh right. It's like, I'll I'll take it man. I'll take it And yeah, again to echo the right opinion here How it should have ended is a comedy channel. It's all done as a joke, Quinton So, you're not allowed to take them seriously. Sorry jokes can be better Jokes that are meant to be jokes can be better than the joke that you are here Well, this is the thing I think we can seriously deconstruct He she is a channel and be like, what about their ideas in the same way? You can do it with cinemas and but the fact that tiaro is stated It's like if it's a joke, you are not allowed to take it a series It's like, well, then why are you taking them so seriously on this Quinton like cool guy But yeah, I the how it should have ended for the last Jedi is actually quite fun I recommend it anybody in chat who hasn't seen it. You'd find it by typing in hi Uh, sh e the last Jedi you'll you'll get a few laughs out of it I mean in the first stream that you and I did on our channel We just started you brainstorming about stuff and we came up with a better Last Jedi than the last Jedi was and we just sat down off the cuff And we came up with something better That because it would have been so funny turning around to see the audience reaction and just hearing people go Oh god, why are they getting so close to his face? Yeah, I don't want to be close to I want to be further away making me uncomfortable Obstacles in the way who's that in his video Mahler states that they should have taken this opportunity and they could have explained it How Snoke was connected to Palpatine did Snoke rise to power once Palpatine was defeated Was he trained by Palpatine was Palpatine trained by him And the thing is that despite the fact that they're interpreted as sequels the sequel trilogy is heavily standalone Despite despite the fact that they're sequels they're not sequels But but But I don't even I don't even know what to say to that. Oh, he's amazing. He'll do anything I don't even know what to say to that this fucking lol cow. I don't know what to even say Despite the fact there's sequels. They're not sequels. They are as if The empire strikes back and return to the Jedi also standalone your twat. It doesn't mean they're not sequels They're standalone by definition of being fucking movies Oh What insanity and the idea that he's talking about how they stand alone when the force awakens basically says everything will be explained Sorry, not here though. Yeah, that's standalone. What insanity? What have you drank? What have you what have you done to yourself quinton? You're not making sense Shit, and the thing is that despite the fact that they're interpreted as sequels the sequel trilogy is sequels They're interpretive as sequels It's like episode one two three four five six seven eight nine that part of it is irrelevant They're interpreted. Yeah, just because it's episode seven and then it's episode eight You might interpret that as a sequel I can't with the same characters that occur chronologically after the previous one with the Tiro, did you watch this when you like put this together and you thought yeah, that makes sense Interpreted as sequels Yeah, no shit the movie without having rewatched all six of the original movies alongside the holiday special So to say that the movie needs to stop and pander to and reference the uh So to explain your own stakes and to connect yourself with the previous film. That is too panda Yeah, what's that this about pandering? Well, because he has to just fucking Delegitimize us at any any point you can frame it in the most dishonest and inaccurate way possible as I'll just say Episode two of game of thrones is separate from episode. What if you think about it? Each episode is standalone. They're not a sequel quinter. They're separate episodes two They just happen to occur in the same universe or the same characters chronologically directly following Do you have any characters any representation of the past history any any lore or story? Or anything in episode two of game of thrones would be to panda to the people who liked episode one. That's it Wow, this makes no fucking sense at all. Could you imagine trying to write with these standards? You should be like I'm just gonna vomit on the page and see what people think It's like and so it's like It's like if the next movie starts off with them leaving crate. Is that pandering? Does he know what numbers are like when you have one the next one is two The next one is three. You don't go one seven eight sixteen that you could you could interpret it that way Interpret it just because the numbers come after each other. They don't actually have any relevance to each other whatsoever That's someone's somebody to have pompadour pug said, um, he's right I always read random issues of comics because they're always standalone issues Christ The original trilogy doesn't make any sense because most of the audience or at least like half of the audience Are you fucking kidding me talking about? Do you think like all these people who first of all, I have no idea how you arrived at these numbers No, but How the fuck do you would you even think that all of these star wars fans who go in and watch star wars movies? Just don't know anything about star wars I love as well by the way that he's appealing to the idea That we shouldn't account for the previous films because most people will have forgotten them Like well, why what what is the point of having any content in them? If you're going to assume that no one will remember it when you make a sequel What the fuck is the point? Here you have star trek episodes that harken back to previous star trek episodes from different series Do you think when they're true to their own story and lore? They take that into account that yeah Not everybody is going to remember this character from this episode of this season of this show that aired 10 years ago But it's still part of the lore and we have to be faithful to it Harry potter the deathly hallows pot to stand to load fill Does it make any sense because most of the audience or at least like half of the audience Isn't going to know what you're talking about That's the thing. He's half the people who went to see this movie They don't know key details of the movies that came before and again is no no metric there He's just like yeah, I'm pretty sure this is how half of the universe feels about this At least half a nice even benchmark exact number that's easy for you to grasp at least half Now it's not even like most or anything These new characters learn that like they must they must have come from before I mean rey herself wasn't there for the original trilogy So how would there be a scene of their of them discussing a big reveal involving the plot of you're asking me How do we get snokes history through to the audience without characters that know who snoke is when we've got kylo ren Are you fucking kidding me man? If only there was a way for audiences to discover things along with characters in the yeah Only there was a way what you're witnessing here folks Is quinton trying to wrap his brain around the idea that we learn about anything to do with star wars from any source other than rey He doesn't understand that that's possible This is a picture of quinton trying to wrap his little brain around extremely simple writing concepts that have literally existed for hundreds of years God forbid like why would rey talk about snokes? She doesn't even know snoke is So stupid that we suggest getting a history of a snoke They must have come from before I mean rey herself wasn't there for the original trilogy So how would there be a scene of their of them discussing a big reveal? involving the plot of the original trilogy actually She wasn't there and she doesn't know what the hell they're talking about how they go She doesn't have to why when did we say that rey has to be the one that does it? Yeah, what what is he talking about? Why is he fighting the jelly mat again? Ray can be used as the conduit for the reason why it's being explained Just like harry potter is uh his grown up. He's he grows up as a muggle And in the same way the audience learns about the wizarding world through harry who was learning about the wizarding world It's just it's most it's just such a Basic concept of writing like literally the you go back to the oldest epic in history Right the epic of gilgamesh and you have fucking gilgamesh and inkado learning about shit Also the the I hit what he said makes sense if you showed a clip of me and rag saying Snokes history should have been dictated by rey But you know what you're never gonna catch us saying that in earnest because there's no reason for us to say that It would have been appropriate for rey to ask like who are you where you come from? How come we didn't know anything about you like it just makes fucking obvious sense and besides, um Luke knows about The prequels in the last jedi he's read about them. So it's completely fair for him to have explained who doth pelagos was if that was the case And he's not even from the prequel trilogy, you know, what i'm trying to say here Is like there's so many ways you can write it And you're just like no no way nope, nope, nope, nope, nope Even though as someone pointed out in chat as well anakin tins up in episode six of the ot if you remember in the remastered versions was like, uh, uh Maybe these films are connected and they're not stand alone. Oh, no Oh, no could be interpreted that episode six is a sequel to episode five You could interpret that episode six is the sixth episode That's up to you to interpret i'll stop and be like uh palpatine was was my cousin Actually, isn't that a big reveal? I actually don't know. Yeah, that would have been something He just goes like the worst possible delivery to make it sound like it's bad You could have Palpatine and snoke exist together and they are aware of each other But they have different views of the force or they have different Views on how to govern a system or what to do So snoke Breaks off from the empire and goes out into a sector of space with the first order Or whatever you just all you got to do Is just think about it for a little bit brainstorm come up with ideas Right. Yeah, you know, just sit down and think about it. What do you know? You know, he's talking about how great it is that snoke was just killed like randomly Um, the execution of the scene itself's like I I quite like it enough I think it's neat, but what if what if some character said, uh, it was snoke And then kylo goes, oh, he's dead. I killed him It's like that's the same idea, but executed horribly. We could do it to you kwinton You know, you can you can take our our preference or idea or you know, we haven't even said we want it to be Darth Plague as we're saying that It could be You know and see what we do with that and then he's like, oh, yeah, they'll just go Oh, he's my cousin lol and that's the scene and it's like, yeah, that would be shit because why would anyone write it like that? Why would we have snoke go? Hey kylo my cousin's plague is by the way or I am plague is lol someone in chat shadow asks Did kwinton forget that ray lived in a rundown at at war? Do you forget that she lives on the planet that had the last battle between the galactic Empire and the No, no, of course, but it's just as far as the movies are considered. They want us to know that That's what yeah, that's the con that's why there's an at 80 there is what i'm saying Godman says snokes history should have been dictated by the theme of the standalone sequel to the jargar beings movie I agree. I can get behind that. Absolutely mind that and there will be standalone, you know That's why it's good And ask we're following this stating that abrams had no idea what these reveals were going to be and it's since been revealed That he had no plan for what the reveals were even going to be from the yeah Well, that's not true because it's since been revealed that he apparently had a bunch of plans that were given to ryan johnson and ryan johnson through the Imagine imagine editing this and forgetting that can't has an apostrophe in it Not to mention, dude the infamous do you remember how this went like a lot of people were like Wow, they threw jj from ideas out and then ryan johnson made a tweet where he said that um, he had no he had no such thing from uh Thinking he had no guidelines to work with and people were like, oh So jj was kind of a hack fraud. He just he just had setups with no payoffs And then fast forward probably after this video was made uh daisy ridley said in an interview That ryan johnson had a bunch of notes from jj about all the way the story threads are gonna go and he threw them out Yeah, and if it if we're taking people's words for it. I'm I'm probably gonna believe daisy I find it very hard to believe that jj created all of these setups with no idea Where they were yeah, but the fact that he spent all this time and effort And he just literally stopped all of his ideas and stopped writing everything down about characters For the last scene of this movie was like no, there's no way That's hard for me to believe and it's hard for me on top of all those arguments and the pieces of evidence Finally, I hit everything. What are you trying to say? Oh, it's okay that the last Jedi doesn't make any sense because the force awakens didn't have any guidelines It's like you telling me a no writer could make developments of setups Yeah, that's the thing even if that was true, let's assume that's true. It's no excuse And besides it's like you're supposed to be arguing for the quality of the last Jedi not the fucking Yeah, I'm not making excuses for how shit it was Get go rags then just denies it and says that it can't be true. Bullshit. He definitely had ideas that was not true He absolutely had ideas There is no Way that jj abrams never thought or had ideas about where the story would go Yeah, but they're gonna get pedantic on you and say what are you inside his head rags? Do you know versus Unfathomable doubt. Do you have proof? Do you have statements? This is some bull. This is the whole thing this bullshit about absolute certainty gets my panties in a knot The idea that you create this entire story and you just have no You're like, hey jj. What's what's this? No guy and you're like, no idea. Just throw him in Okay, no clue and he just wipes his hands and walks away Um, and by the way, uh, if we want definitive evidence on the dvd commentary, um JJ talks about how they've written the entire history for kylo and snook and they didn't involve it in the movie Uh, but they it's in the actor's heads and so they're aware of what the history is and it's going to be a point in my series And I'm just like why the fuck couldn't you share it with the audience? So, uh, he definitely and this is the thing what you said is so very, uh, Let's say inoffensive. He had ideas. Don't pretend like he didn't but then they're like, you couldn't know this rags You couldn't possibly know this You're like, are you gonna it's like it's ridiculous and now it's been proven that I was right So fuck you. I was right. Fuck you. I was right The truth is that I researched the article myself and it appears that the article about Yep, it came right from riot johnson who lied if we believe daisy ridley. Yeah Hashtag believe women There was no mapped story presented beyond tfa. You know what that's probably true In that there was no story Like there was no script I'm just going to create all these characters and write their interactions with other people and stuff But oh, I don't have any idea where it might go. Like I think of it. Um If if jj said, yes, snooker's plagueless Plagueis, uh, ray's parents, uh, obi-wan kanobi and someone else and a bunch of other things and then ryan johnson's like I don't like any of those ideas and then someone goes So did he provide you any story map out and he goes no He gave me a bunch of ideas on where the things could go, but he never gave me a mapped out story It's like how ridiculous to actually think that jj had no idea where it could go That's just that's just embarrassing though because it's just like, oh, I'm sorry tiaro You made this video before new information came out that rags was actually right on this like definitively So it says that ryan didn't receive any material about reveal No, it doesn't say he didn't receive any material says he didn't receive a mapped out story. There was no mapped story presented So even if jj had plans They never made it to ryan's yes, they did so this is something that I can either confirm or deny Then we have a very weird point about jj saving face for the company. But hey, you gotta save face for the company. I totally understand I mean, yeah, ryan johnson's actively It's pretty dishonest to say that there was like nothing he was given After I mean chuck windig just got fired for exactly that yes, uh You know and there's a lot of things ryan johnson says that are just like downright like Oh, he's so fucking annoying insane. Oh god. There's no fair criticisms of the last Jedi. He hasn't heard any nope He's a prick who made a shitty movie get over it And I get it once again. I do not know where that has come from I do not see reasonable evidence that abram's of all people is in a vow of silence The burden of proof lies with rags on such I I guess we know that's true because daisy has said that and jj's not said anything on the subject all right, so If I was to try how how could I possibly prove that? How could I possibly get into the mind? Of jj abram's is like let I just talking to one from one person to another Right. Are you actually going to deny? The fact that jj abram's Did not have any idea as to where his story or characters might go Like is that actually do you think that is a reasonable thing to think? Yes, I can't prove it with absolute certainty But I think that it would be crazy of somebody to say that he had no ideas They wouldn't be Theories or they wouldn't they wouldn't be ideas about what's going on in production like a secret If they were public knowledge, you wouldn't be able to say I you know like the the disney of told uh luke to shut up or that um JJ's state silent on this subject you wouldn't be able to say these things unless they you know Like people would know them as true or there would be things that you could guess that would explain the situation like of course The disney didn't come out and say we silenced mark like how that would just be the stupidest thing they could ever do So like what i'm trying to say is like he's like you don't know these things for sure It's like how would we know them for sure when the whole premise is that the things that are meant to be kept secret Someone said rags the burden of proof is on you to prove god isn't real It's like I understand what he's saying Yes, I am making the claim that he had ideas Because I think that first there's no way to prove it. There there is no way to prove it Even if he said so he could be lying. That's the thing. This is one of those like unfalsifiable things We'd have to see a weird document with the ideas saved in 2015. I guess I mean, it's just there's no way I could But I would hope That the person that i'm talking with is reasonable enough To agree with me that the person who wrote these characters out and establish them in a universe and had them interacting with other characters And then had the actors and filmed it and went through all that editing process and spend all this time and effort to create these characters To think that he didn't have any ideas as to where they would go I think it is absolutely preposterous and I think itself it should be considered self evidently retarded I want to read this one out because I think you'll find it interesting rags uh from from kevin andrew's photo You guys are so embarrassing doing these weekly critiques of anyone with a different opinion Not even producing a rebuttal video just ganging up and nitpicking these Opinions frame by frame So this is well first of all This is a video from tiaro and quintan against rags. So if anything they teamed up on him first Uh, secondly, we've rebuttled everything that we can. What do you think we're doing if not responding to points? Like yeah, we've absolutely thrown insults But you can't say that that's anything more than about two percent of our video that we're making right now And maybe he doesn't maybe maybe you don't make content Other than crappy youtube comments. So you don't know What time and effort and works go and work goes into a video? And when we take a video like look man, they made a two hour video If we were to make like a normal video about there to our video, holy fucking shit Yeah, like I don't know what you expect like, uh I don't really do anything else. What do you want us to do play the entire video and then say we disagree Would that be fair? Yeah, man. I mean, I think we're being very fair doing this live Then the fundamental, uh ending of this response to this comment in the chat is What do you think tiaro and quintan did if not what you're accusing us of doing? Yes, someone said now every time I hear the argument there is no way to prove if this is real or false I immediately remember monday matt it all and and Matt dillahunty too because he he's he's he's a no he's a skeptic Matheus debate guy and it's just at this point we just have to do you assume that daisy ridley was lying That's the only thing we got left now because she said it is like we have two people saying different things, right? I have more reason to believe that ryan johnson I'm not saying it with absolute certainty I'm saying that I believe it and i'm saying that it's probably true based off of How people work? Right I think it is far more likely based off of jj abram's right That he of course had an idea as to where his characters might go of course Because all he has to all he has he just needs the idea Like you tell me he never thought of it. He never once considered Well, I wonder what happens to snow. Well, he does that. He's from here. Oh, he does this and he does that and kylo Oh, well, he's from here and he doesn't yeah, but you don't know if sure He didn't get inside his head racks. You're wrong wrong wrong You know, uh the the defense there's an opinion or a typo bollock or it's a joke or it's uh Sentimental all that all that shit once again Never mind all that and and to say the wind at picking a tro by the way It's like how is he not being pedantic with the shit that rag says? I just don't understand this like double standard and of course I hate to say this but like if you really don't like the way we're doing this Um, you don't have to watch us do it You know, it's up to you like uh, I I this has been the premise of e-fap since the beginning so Someone says I feel like rags is wrong here JJ Abrams is notorious for creating mysteries with zero plans for what their reveals would be I'm sure he had ideas for where these characters came from. Oh But oh, you say he's sure he had ideas from where these characters came from but going no bullshit I mean if he's got ideas from where they came from then shouldn't Where they're going be defined by whatever their motivation is As in his ability to portray those in a satisfying way is completely detached From whether or not he had ideas Yeah, I I I think I just think it's ridiculous for someone for a director. I'm just confused. We have daisy ridley's testimony though We we have daisy ridley's testimony. Doesn't that just end this conversation? She said the like like I'll just find the actual quote for the sake of uh the argument Daisy ridley jj script tfa ryan that should probably do it Um There you go JJ Abrams wrote drafts for star wars eight and nine says daisy daisy ridley um And daisy ridley worked with him longer than ryan johnson did Remember daisy was with him for his movie. Yeah, so this is the quote from daisy ridley Here's what I think I know jj wrote episode Uh seven as well as drafts for episode eight and nine then ryan johnson arrived and wrote tlj entirely I believe there was some sort of general consensus on the main lines of the trilogy But apart from that every director writes and realizes his film in his own way So there you go daisy ridley could be lying but that seems like a really odd thing and again, this is just word You know, I guess we'll have to wait here, but ryan and daisy to have an argument with each other This is all we got left Anyway, I don't know man. It just I mean this is I mean we're probably spending too much time on this point But I think the idea that he didn't have any idea as to where his characters would go is ridiculous Well, I mean this point would be over if like I said, I'm just confused that the daisy ridley thing isn't enough But we also got The accusation of nitpicking dun dun dun dun, which I mean no we're finished as we said earlier as well We're not even sure of what an individual person means by nitpicking is what we said invalid or is it just irrelevant? Or something else who knows how's that tweet doing you put out by the way? Oh, let me check Let me go to click on my face Okay a 140 comments Um Pointing out something that doesn't destroy the product Um, so it disagrees. I personally think nitpicking is analyzing little mistakes that can are be present But can affect the overall product Intentionally going after minor unimportant details usually when someone can't find any legitimate criticisms of Nitpick is something that can easily be overlooked as it isn't paramount to a product or a service Not to dismiss or downplay their flaw, but it is something that I can reasonably accept and still like an observation as a flaw Um A flaw that doesn't affect the overall plot that is a minor error Valid in a sense, but not as important like actual problems or plot holes Uh, a nit is a young louse. Uh, it comes from picking nits off of someone one by one so here you go, um That's uh, you can pick my nits any days like yeah, it's uh It's half dependent on what people even mean by before we can even respond to it. That's why it's uh, it takes a while Sometimes it picks a strong word. I prefer extreme attention to detail small, um A lot of people are comparing the picks to the bigger picture um Nick mix me is pointing out minor details that don't make the final product any less great. However, I don't feel like it is valid um making a big deal of time detail or tiny details pointing out something small that doesn't affect the overall movie so Criticism that although valid does not itself cause a massive issue. That's kind of how I I see it general consensus It's like you've pointed out something that is you know, contradictory or inaccurate or whatever, but it didn't really affect anything. Anyway Um, so anyway She says that there's a side plot in like a casino Which most people agree is a bit clumsy and takes up far too much time in an already long movie Rags then concurs and says yeah, that was a train wreck of a subplot They would have been far better ditching it and spending that time on something far far more valuable like, you know The events that happened between episode four and episode seven Now this one principle isn't a bad point Although it could be argued that 11 minutes of a film would have been hard to fill with exposition No, uh, the entire history of lord of the rings to set up the film is done in I think eight minutes at the beginning of the film Yeah, man, 11 minutes is a long time. You can get a lot done in 11 minutes Yes, you can You design although it definitely spent it even if they would have spent 11 minutes on how luke became luke Yeah, that would have been nice instead. They chose to have one flashback three times the change slightly To dictate whether or not he was malicious or whether or not he was confused Been filled with something more worthwhile. This is something that I actually subsequently brings up really isn't that bad And it's actually quite a short segment of the movie 11 minutes is like, uh, we could ignore the 11 minutes of crap. Can't we it's like I hate everything that is uh Not a fun argument to be making for the quality of the film. I'm just saying it. It's only 7% of the entire movie. Um That's a lot. That's 11 minutes I mean, yeah, there's no denying that's you could you could you could do a lot in 11 minutes To be comparatively to the rest of it and rank strangely responds by saying that so who cares if it's only 7% of the movie That's a lot not really from my point of view. I don't know about other people But to me 11 minutes is not much No, well, okay. So what we're gonna do define whether or not a lot or a little is what what they are They're playing with weasel words here a lot a little. I mean, it's let's let's make it simple You said the you could use it for exposition. He said that's not much time to do it The lord rings does it in less time. So it is a lot In comparison to what a movie can have for exposition done and done we can move on Exposition is jeez. Of course, you could do a lot more if someone said We're gonna take out 11 minutes of the worst part of a movie and replace it with something else It's like think of all the stuff you could do. There's tubers only 7% of your brain Yeah, I guess it's context, huh like I think it's silly to say that 7% isn't a lot of a film It's like what does that even mean that we could just if if there's 7% of bad We could just ignore it doesn't matter what that actual 7% is And and the fact that people thought it was longer than it actually was I mean, yeah, even that Speaks to the speaks to the scene I dare anybody to sit and stare at a wall for 11 minutes and not do anything. It won't feel very quick. Let's put it that way Yeah, my dad who really liked the last Jedi. He said that whole scene was pointless He said that whole thing was like he was like Oh, yeah, and solar dragon just pointed out the the scene they cut with luke's reaction to han's death You could probably cut that down to about eight seconds if you really wanted to And it has so much more content in that eight seconds than the 11 minutes of kanto bite I mean You I mean you could you could really fuck up a movie in just a couple seconds. Oh, yes Been to have stated how the scenes themselves totally cut apart important interaction between luke and rey So the 11 minutes had more impact than originally let on I achieve then says there's cheesy and awkward dialogue at points But star wars has always had that so that's not really a deal breaker for me Station to pick up some power converters. Right. Why is that goofy line? Why is that goofy? He was gonna go to the tashi station to pick up power converters. It's like uh, goofy And uh, again, do we even bother mentioning the whole what about is it like it's goofy lines the other one? So it's not goofy the way I guess I still is goofy. Oh, it doesn't matter Oh, yeah, also is as your mother Said uh, ps a seven percent of a large number is also large very correct very true Accident interject I need to use the luke so I'll be right back fair enough I will actually get around to reading some super chats because I haven't done that at all this time around Npc checking in is that how it works? Well, I've heard of the npc meme. I'm not 100 up to speed on it Just yet. Uh doth armor. Um change the chat to live it defaults to top chat Uh Oh All messages available some messages such as potential spam may not be visible Oh, I would prefer the if my mods knock out any messages that they stay knocked out. That's the job Um, what's the beef with quintan reviews? Hopefully that's answered by this video Uh, is this going to be rags or more? I love both you lads. I give you more, but I'm broke That is absolutely fine lordos in 10 euros is actually quite a lot as well. So thank you very much And we always appreciate just watching anyway Um talking with us about all of it any opinion on the treatment of legends in my opinion It's almost an insult to fans when you make good writing stories and characters non canonical and replace them with elements Replace them and elements with such poor counterfeits Um, I don't know enough about legends, but I know that very many people are very pissed off with it and at first it's like If you have something good replace the good thing then it's okay-ish It's not exactly preferable, but if you have something awful replace the good, it's like Oh Is it bad that I want a Michael Bay Star Wars? I would watch it. Why not right give it a shot In my opinion sucks if you want Gundam watch either war in the pocket the eighth ms team or Gundam the origin Very well. Ibo sucks. I'm assuming that was supposed to be sorry Uh, do you believe some criticisms can be nitpicks? Absolutely my definition of a nitpick is something that's valid but mostly irrelevant Obviously it seems to change between people and I'm not sure if this is a defined definition of it on you know Whatever dictionary um r&m confirmed for self-aware Putin bots Dun dun dun mean means rags are Rations Not trust our opinions on things because we're simply trying to overthrow America, uh, I still don't uh I still don't understand how people can defend this heaping dumpster fire TLJ was honestly worse than skyscraper rampage the mag drastic will fall in kingdom and somehow even justice league I prefer all of those films over it. So I'm all how dare you not look like a skull on wheels unsubscribed in futile rage. I am so sorry But like we said, you can treat it as a hood ornament that that would be on the front of the car Rags red rocket is ready the virgin quentin versus the Chad Jeremy Who'd be Jeremy in that? Uh Jeremy's the name of the guy on cinema sins if that's that's what you go for Like the new avatar and we'll just rewatch your infinity wall video. It convinced me to see the movie I'm loving this epic writer response thesis of course It's it's it's wonderful to have read a response response response theory I'll say again if a script don't matter then a video of just staring at a wall for an hour would make me just Do as much as a video a film of infinity war. It's like, yeah We know there's a difference. They like to pretend that there isn't one Um, if my opinion was socialism works without knowledge of any prior events or arguments, then that's my opinion any objectively wrong one Uh Yes, I think um, I thought art was supposed to be subjective Uh, I was taught when two people look at the work of art. They get different things out of it subjectivity is important But I don't need to explain enjoyment I mean with us the thing me and me and rags are okay with subjectivity. Absolutely Tell us what tell us what I made you feel No, we well, I'm assuming rags does but like I use it in my videos when I want to tell you how I felt about something Yeah, fine. Um, just know which is which They cross your wires. They are all warp practitioners and need the stake. Oh my Luke no hobo will you be? christen ohlin for obi-wan movie spielberg Cameron and ramey for episode nine not the queer star trek guy I say open it up to everybody Just do it. Just just do it. Um, mola, please google open it up Please google coming soon episode nine improv the first second paragraphs in the article is cack They feel like there aren't any under any pressure so improv Yeah, I've heard about the episode nine is apparently gonna have a lot of improv, which is like oh, no I guess well for ghost busters. Yeah, it's just like oh, please please don't ruin everything Um, I mean they've already done that but you know Rude it more in the eu or legacy force ghost can affect the physical world to a limited degree However, it's mostly the sith shown doing so as it goes against the jedi to abuse a power for self-serving means And that's the thing uh, you could have made that rule We could have talked about it in the films, but we don't have Anything to go off and it's just like he fucking burns down the jedi tab ball. It's like oh my Yoda you you got some uh You could you could do a lot of shit there. Why did why did you try that odd? You know anything that could help the good guys Um, I hate rags too. I mean I really don't know him but hashtag. I hate everything so it's k, right? Yeah Yeah, that totally makes sense also I squeak like hell then my throat is getting very I wasn't gonna say anything but A penny for each time quintin is a hypocrite. Well, that'd be wonderful I can retire Uh in revenge of the sith Yoda sends Obi-Wan to master a new ability returning as a ghost because old friend returned quite gone But that's just the law Yeah, that that explains why there's no force ghosts in the prequels So george lucas clearly gave a shit sort of I um If I had if I got zero pennies every time quintin contradicted himself. I feel like I'd still be rich somehow You just feel like money that's worth nothing but you have so much of it. You just sell it for scrap and it tids out to get you billions Just like this video so much nothing Um, all of you feel like rugby football cricket, uh, do you like them? If so, do you support? Um, I only ever really watched rugby and it was support in wales and I've not seen the new doctor. Who am I right? Man and doge, let's get to brass tacks. Leia spacewalk was dumb and stupid lightning jumping pushing choking and force blasts Are pretty cool. The prequels is an expanded universe of cool powers. I mean, yeah genuinely Subjectively, I like seeing force powers that are neat but seeing her fly through space. I was like, oh my that's That's awkward Like even if it was 100 fine with What we know about the force and we've seen her do it before I'd still be like, oh man, it's awkward. Please stop Uh, I love you guys. We are an hour and four minutes into this and I can't listen to him anymore Even though the filter of you guys have some money. Thank you, brandon Follow up from last week's super chat that I left. Neo is awesome I recommend it and feel free to use this money towards your steam purchase of it. I do have it Thanks to uh, no bullshit actually bought me it. I am gonna get around to playing it. I swear to god one day, uh Time stamp for you boys in the rags video is one 10 30. Yeah, we've definitely um That'll go down in the history books now. Like unfortunately for quinter the editor add to euro Actually in episode three is it strongly implied that the force goes so not the normal become with the one with the force thing Yeah, it's some kind of like special ability you learn According to yoda, at least I think uh press wife quintons law doesn't matter. That's where the wise came from. I think rags Oh Have either of you seen bad times at l royale yet? If not, I'd recommend you take this money and watch it I have not heard of it Admit you like hodl's beard because hodl hodl's awesome. He should have uh, he should have done the hyperspace kamikaze This music freaking sucks Yeah, I would have recommended different music or just not to hold. Oh not music at all Uh, quinton ain't quitting bullshit More than half shackles my good man rags sit on my face. I mean yay There you go. That's something for both of us. Hey nerd sad wolf ain't here But it's been a good stream so far quittens a dipshit fat ass. Well Wolf will return so don't panic about that and obviously Wolf I think said he's seen this video and he was just like annoyed by it So I guess like there's a good chance where he would have just been Not really wanting to comment on it anyway, but me and rags are fucking tearing this apart with these like, uh In a way that he isn't Yeah, well besides I don't know if you guys have heard but uh, eric taxons made a a video against wolf So when wolf finally gets around to um wanting to you know, come back on e-fab. That's probably the first thing we'll cover Our force diversity. Uh, mullin rags keep it a good work Love you guys for someone who wants to get into dark souls one is the steam dark souls remastered a faithful port to play Or do I need this ps3 copy? Thanks from what I know The remaster is decent. It's just that um, it wasn't a big enough difference from the modded version of dark souls at a base So If it's your first experience go for it, uh, but I would recommend checking out some videos sort of reviewing it just to make sure Yeah, there might there might be some charm in playing the original, you know Movie bobble quintin. Who's the biggest piece of shit? quintin Uh, I would say well damage to us personally. It's obviously quintin, but that quintin's more personal But may overall movie bobs like Movie bobs just a horrible person Yeah, I was gonna say movie bobb probably does more damage in general like Damage to humanity versus damage to us. Here's the thing if movie bob had the infinity gauntlet like People would die Yeah, which is it's not reassuring like very seriously like people would die Uh, in regards to star wars letters, it was like I was taking a nice hot bath and they replaced it with cold Shit so many stories and games go on Yeah, I'm sorry about that and uh, it's it's something we just have to sort of accept the dizzy. We're like non-cannon. La la la la la la It's like oh Fine because they got to buy the ip guys. That's how that works But thank you all very much. Do you think he had money for the generous donations and uh Let's let's see where they go next Yeah, same Why do you have such a fucking problem with luke behaving as someone in his position would exactly do I'm like, do you just have a hate boner for luke skywalker's character like ryan does This then happens again for the next two quotes as well So the only quote out of all of them that I think is goofy is I don't know where you get your delusions from laser brain Like it's the only one where i'm like Man laa is that the best you could do? Uh, yeah, but the others they don't seem out of character Yeah, they all seem to fit to me like I I would I wish I had everything would be like this is goofy because Um instead of just saying these are goofy as hell. It's like I thought they smelled bad on the outside That's so in that anyone would say about anything that aliens if aliens were watching um a film about you know earthlings And some character said i'm gonna go to the exxon station to gas up the honda Like that wouldn't that wouldn't be it's like these humans It would just be we just we don't know what these things are. It's just like a slice of life Like detail wine like he's going he he's gonna go do something Yeah, it's just it seems like a weak defense to me. It's like look at this now everything's fine in the last jet Okay, it's like oh, is that how that works? Okay. Yeah, it's not my opinion. Those are goofy Just objective Yes, they're in character, but you'd be hard to push to deny that they are least somewhat corny The idea of just telling someone they can't win in the midst of a lightsaber battle that they then it's not about the lightsaber fight Yeah, it's about the fact that if he dies he becomes one with the force and there's a force ghost and Darth Vader doesn't kill him that way It's not about who wins the lightsaber fight. How come you have such a fundamental misunderstanding last hour? such a He does like if you're talking about just the fact that the lightsaber battle ends in him literally dying You say there's a goofy that he said that despite dying is like he's obviously referring to the fact that he becomes a force ghost Come on Lose does have its cornball appeal. The latter quotes are not disputed as being corny so we can continue. What? What do you mean they're not disputed? I mean, maybe he means by you in your video, but like I would dispute the chef Rags questions why they're bad, but the rest were appropriate and in character and they built them up with personalities Why are these lines bad? But I actually never said they were bad. He even put a mini display. Oh, come on. He said they were goofy. It's not exactly a positive claim, is it? Yeah, it's like, you know rags is taught as saying that he's criticizing those lines. That's what I had everything's doing Give him some slack, please. Just a little bit of slack. Yeah, that's absolutely why it's there He just finds them goofy then I actually reference his two prequel quotes and states that he would find it ironic if why would you I think you're gonna say this in your video But the idea that you say the dialogue in the sequels isn't so bad. Look at the dialogue in the fucking prequels It's like literally the prequels that are meme to death because of how funny the lines are Prequel memes on twitter like how many it's like a reddit to prequel memes and the shit If you criticize the scripting in the last Jedi but not the prequels. No, it's because i'm so in love with you So love is blinded Yeah, like I find it pretty ironic if you love the prequels, but you're cool. What? You can't love them even if they have goofy lines in them. I'm confused now. What his point even is If there's a corny line, you can't love the film and not only that ones. We're the ones Who are accused of saying shit like that? You can absolutely love the prequels and say they have goofy lines I love the prequels. They're terrible and I love them Calling out this movie for having bad dialogue rags then references the destiny video as irony Oh, we're gonna start talking about irony. Is that what we're gonna do now besides The defense of the last jedi that you seem to have is oh, yeah, but these other movies Yeah, it's not very compelling before going on to suggest that the defense of the last jedi consists of referring to other Movies to falsely justify the last jedi's flaws the last jedi had shit writing. Oh, but the prequels Oh, but these movies that were made 40 years ago. Oh, but da da da da da da da Defend of them from the criticism that people are levying against it. Don't go to other movies We are not discussing if this was a valid point. It would be legitimate criticism But if we break down itch's last two main points They were that firstly he didn't mind the corny dialogue in the last jedi Mainly because that has been a recurring theme in the past films and clearly it's nothing that jolts him He wasn't trying to justify. Yeah, but rags already said like how are the other ones even goofy So that that wasn't really even by your definition of what he was trying to prove. It wasn't exactly Cohesive let's put it that way Um right in this instance. He's just stating that they've been used before in film So he didn't find its inclusion here anything bad for him. His second point is that he I'm not sure that he said that I thought it was just like people who are complaining about goofy dialogue. It's in the ot2 I don't remember him saying like I didn't mind goofy dialogue Because um, I've always liked goofy dialogue or something like that again. I could be wrong because yeah I We've got barely any context terrible. So it's impossible to remember But I think he was using the fact that it was in other films as a reason why we shouldn't have a problem with it He finds people who complain about the dialogue here, but not in the prequels to be employing double standards Now this is presupposed by the fact that the dialogue in the prequels is pretty corny But that is something that most people agree on and if we assume that then yes It could be seen as double standards He never at one point tried to defend the film through this. He accepts it and explains why he personally found it fine Some people enjoy corny lines. He's not arguing it. He's just saying he found it fine. This is the problem There isn't a disagreement. Just one person's idea of placing pretty sure He said the you can't love the prequels if you say they'll you don't accept that they have goofy lines as well Or something like that. We just covered it. You played the clip Anakin clip playing in the spaceship. Yeah, like I I don't want to go back to get the exact line But i'm pretty sure he said the You know if you claim to love the prequels you you have to accept that they have this in it, too It's just like that you say that like it's a contradiction I don't know. I need again But there was definitely a similar to disagree with there. It wasn't a hundred percent agreement. I don't I don't think so Conductive value on certain components being different to another IHE states that find a somewhat hamfisted anti one percent message kind of funny and ironic Given the context of what star wars represents somehow rags managed to get a gotcha in there And i'm certain they are thrilled that you paid to see it three times Exactly Yeah Yeah, you don't Like he even said it was ironic like yeah The rags just filled in the rest of the gaps there It's like he you have a problem with the anti capitalist message in a movie that you paid to see three times. It's like You know Those for that sort of level IHE then are say rhetorical question that sort of level He's of shit All right Placing conducive value on certain components being different to another IHE states that find a somewhat hamfisted Anti one percent message kind of funny and ironic given the context of what star wars represents Somehow rags managed to get a gotcha in there and i'm certain they are thrilled that you paid to see it three times Which is almost fine art at this point. I have to give him kudos for that sort of level IHE then are say rhetorical Oh, yeah, that boy. Here we go. I'm confused. So I have to give kudos for that sort of level Excellent. I take it back. You're not as big of a piece of shit as you were before. What does it mean by that sort of level? he has to I don't know. Yeah, I I think he's complimenting me on yeah, I think he was too. I was just confused by the way he used Yeah, very very strange. But yeah, boy. Cool question. Yeah treating animals nicely is important and everything Was it really necessary alongside everything else this film was trying to achieve which rags then answers? No, it was not the answer is no moller goes way more indebted I do in his criticism Videos but man they packed a lot of incompetence into seven percent of this movie's screen time before IHE Subsequently answers it anyway, which I do find humor in this is one of the examples that seem to illustrate How sometimes I think rags seeks to interject a bit too much to the point where you forget the whole Sentence and the point the person may be trying to make I mean that's still better Then literally not having any of the sentences in the fucking videos. You can't even see what you're responding to Like obviously, I mean I don't mean literally. I mean he's got like 10 percent of your video in his video so we can Sometimes see what you said This is an excellent example of why my style is better than well. Yeah, I would take your style over his any day This is the thing when H. Barma guy said I took a joke of his seriously I was like I played your video so anyone would know that You know, they can go. Hey, why did moller take that so seriously? Yeah, people never have to like ask for context in my stuff because it's all there what I could have done is said Uh, H. Barma guy makes this very serious point and then I re re recant it instead of showing the clip Simple as like that's that's why I prefer this style But he's just like nah you interject and this is something that can happen Me and rags can totally respond to a point without realizing that the following point is going to Contextualize the point they just made that can happen But like we'll usually try and account for it when we follow on we go. Oh, they were saying this. Sorry And that's just you know, is that so bad? I think that's uh, I think that's a good way of doing it to be honest No, not really other than to serve those character arcs It's one character arcs rose tico definitely did not have See I want to clarify before we respond to that bit. So did you catch that hero is like rag said no, it's not uh Uh needed and then I hit everything literally follows up with saying no, it's not needed Implying that what you said was redundant But then I hit everything follows up with well except for the character arcs meaning it's not Something that he thinks shouldn't be in the film at all. He thinks it's good for the character arcs Which is now what you're responding to so that was not I didn't even I didn't even catch that the first time because I just do it as it happens But yeah, this is the thing I will outclass the right the right opinion on the levels of pedantry I've gone over this before I am extremely pedantic and so he's like he's pedanticizing you And I just counter pedanticized him if that makes any sense at all. I'm pretty sure I just made up words, but It's uh chat saying I cite the source of my videos in the description But you never have to watch the original because the originals Basically fully in my video. Yeah, and I like that you do that I genuinely haven't found any other content creators other than myself who did that before that's why I was like, oh, this is neat Like uh when I responded to age barba guy people like it's stupid. You put his entire video in your response. I was like, but that's the point Yeah Um, and yeah as for the character arcs, I guess Finn learns that there are bad people in the universe I don't know what else happens there Um Oh man, that's Oh I have a character arc. She should have had her character arced like Part of a trajectory from a trebuchet. I don't know. I know what a fucking character arc is you piece of shit Wait, I didn't see him say respond. Hang on Because you just respond to some fucking angrily there a change a journey in the count Oh god, he's not explaining a character arc. Is he he is he thinks that I would Because I joked about the character arc being like shot out of a trebuchet He took you seriously He's what a trebuchet Part of a trajectory. I don't know. Yeah, I'm walking there. I don't know a character arc represents a change A journey in the character from a to b now if you genuinely dislike that character arc Even if the person ended up worst, it's still a change. There's a point about humor with no hang on What change takes place in canto bite anyway? What change takes place in canto bite for any of the other characters? I'm confused like he said that you can't deny it because it is a change. It's like what change um They got older They literally aged by seven minutes. They they they aged Good lord. Like I I'm I'm all bored with the idea here. I'm like, what is the change? What happens to these characters? What is different about them? Like maybe I guess finne learns that there are bad people in the universe But should you surprise him because I thought he got his quote unquote change when he was on the ship With the dude remember he has that moment where he just stares and he's like, oh my god I guess but I don't know. I like what's like a character arc for an eight-year-old Well, yeah, I think that too. I think it's really sad that finne had to have the moment of there are bad people in Universe even though is another whole point in the force awakens that he's like, oh my god The team I'm on is horrible I mean, why do you think he left if he didn't know that there are bad people? Then why did he leave one side because he thought they were bad and the really confusing part where The guy explains to him that the good guys and the bad guys get their weapons from that place So stop thinking that it's just the bad guys So you're like, oh nuance and then go from there finne decides to become a hardcore resistance member. You're like, oh k Say someone said uh quite british says rose went from wanting to smash stuff to actually smashing stuff perfect arc Nailed it Yeah, you got it differences So we'll skip this bit then there's some exchange over the pork and the minions This is mostly worthless as it's a side note on ouchie's video But once again, it does demonstrates rags his tendency to interrupt before ouchie has completed the points ouchie says at least He fucking shows his points tiaro. Yeah You just we just have to take your word that all of that happens I guess whenever you showed context We basically like fucking rip it apart, but then when you just say that a thing happened We just have to believe you which yeah, they give us for deciding against that It's so bizarre because again I we we were at 110 in your video at one point and now we could be anywhere like we We only know that because we had to go and fucking fact check him and quentin That's the only reason we know that and here's the thing i'm responding to a video Exactly. Yeah Like he's he's trying to you if you play full context It doesn't even matter if you fucking get something wrong because it was there the audience can see it I don't know maybe I don't know what he's saying here about the fucking porgs You remember when we we thought that he said flood analysis or something and people were like oh you meant flawed analysis It's like we showed it so people know that we were wrong on that We misheard this is the benefit of responding in real time people can see where we we can make mistakes Yeah, and the fact that yeah has been pointed out in chat the fact he doesn't play my video chronologically is Odd I don't know why he thinks that's the a good way of doing this Skipped around and we know that he is deliberately had me taken out of context blood thesis As the porgs and minions aren't the same so side note I don't think comparing the porgs to minions is fair in terms of how they actually affect the movie Oh god, I remember this he says that uh minions are worse because they actually have a purpose Remember this Despicable me movies the porgs really don't affect anything. They're just birds rags interrupts makes a comment as that they're only there to sell toys Yeah, exactly. They're useless. They don't service the plot in any way They're meant to sell plushies to small children But do you not agree that things are more meaningful when they have a direct influence on the plot? He lets aichi continue who then compares ewoks anything Comparable to minions because they are framing that like you were doing something negative like that sounded like you Yeah, that sounded coherent to me Impact on the plot of the movie rags and interjects again adding the sell toy comment. Uh-huh. Yes Porgs are just there to sell toys Once more before aichi completes the sentence referencing that they're there to sell toys Yeah, what's wrong with that? What's the problem? That may be true certainly, but again, they had an effect on the that makes sense tiaro rags He says the thing about the the penguin assholes. He's like, yeah, they just say they sell toys Then he's like minions aren't and you're like, well, it's like. Oh, yeah, but the ewoks is like again They're they're more than just selling toys and then tiaro thingy's like and they sell toys and you're like Yes That's that's that's what we all understand It's the here's the thing. It's the porgs lack any reason beyond selling toys Yeah, I don't Is like he says a thing and I respond to it And I would have said the if I had taken everything he said and then put everything I said afterwards It wouldn't have changed the thing I don't understand where his problem is with that. Um Yeah, not to mention, you know, like the difference like I guess we have to explain this because otherwise people might not understand So you have luke skywalker fighting vader, for example And then someone goes man I want to make some toys of that and they do and they sell and then someone else goes Hmm, maybe we should make stuff that can simultaneously be a part of the plot and sell toys and then ewoks happen and then they go Maybe we just just make stuff that can be made into toys. Who cares about the plot. Fuck it And then porgs were invented now, which of those three Would be the most substantive in terms of content. I wonder Like what are the ones that actually matter to the script the most versus the ones that were just created to be toys And that's what rags his point is in case And that's being said in the chat master clockwork says what the fuck does he keep bringing up? No, why the fuck does he keep bringing up rags is interjecting response video? Yeah, and he does it as if you've ignored or left things out, which you don't you play the stuff as it goes And it's like there and do you want to know who does take things out? This is just a chaos Zeke says tiro has admitted rags saw the whole video then keeps acting like rags hasn't seen the video yet Yeah The boy is rags being mad about furry representation For the story forward amongst this rags also posed the question that would i actually not agree that something is more meaningful when it Is integral to the plot, but do you not agree that things are more meaningful when they have a direct influence on the plot? I don't know how i actually would respond to this unless he made a video response Which he won't but i'm sure he does agree that something is more meaningful to the well that What you think he'd agree Which means that rags was validated this entire sequence, right? What's when it has a direct effect and he wasn't trying to say it Otherwise as he said it's just a side note He wasn't trying to state. Otherwise. It was just a side note I'm pretty sure I had everything's point was that minions are worse because they affect the plot And rags has said wouldn't it be better if they affect the plot and then you said yeah He probably would agree, but that's not what his point was What? Well, what? What? What? I'm not following We're having a minute and i'm almost at the end of what i'm Gonna put up with here It's carry on reference per video is a running joke on this channel Something that I didn't even notice until a few videos ago Although I get it as I assume uninterrupted content over a certain mark might be automatically claimed And that if you were to skip over a certain part some people would accuse them of missing points It just seems sometimes the interruptions are necessary. We've already been over how it's valid. So you're just wrong on this Yeah, it's valid. It doesn't matter. I make points that he doesn't agree with It's unnecessary and excessive the idea that a star wars film can be said to be objectively without value What? What? What? We cut back to Quinton Rewind the tape We cut back to Quinton. What do we get immediately something we never fucking said I've got to hear that again. Go back a little bit one two seven. Let's go to five oh One twenty seven. Yeah one twenty seven fifty Oh I gotta go back even further I'll go to this timeline one two seven. I know it's a long video One two seven. There that should do it excessive the idea that a star wars film can be said to be objectively without value Because it's sold toys How little do you have to know about the history of star wars film? What the fuck? Who fucking said that Quinton? Where did you get this? What is wrong with you? It's like you're just talking to yourself and you don't even know I'm here What are you doing Quinton? This is not like remotely respectable. You just implied that me and rag said Star wars the last Jedi is without value because they're selling toys with it. What the fuck are you talking about? What? Jesus Christ like This is insane This is the jelly bad is back is the it's the straw bad that just destroys itself so stupid that no one would have said it How do you I don't know how you can so consistently? Argue against points that aren't made and just make shit up Is that what you took away from what I said just like in what universe? He's just making shit up. Yes, we you're just making shit up Wow What a joke of a film and the toy industry to know that the franchise has only been so amazingly successful And bombastic because of the existence of companies like Kenner I went to the museum of moving image a few weeks ago and shine means And there's a whole like chunk of the museum where they're just showing off star wars toys because it's that important to the story of how Media was congratulations. You're beating the shit out of this straw man like you're really doing well I agree Memorabilia can be important for history. I totally agree. Why the fuck are you spending so much time on this? I'm just glad you got the exercise man. Yeah, just just punch that straw man Beat him up was consumed in the west a star wars movie selling toys does not make it soulless or capitalistic It just makes it a star wars movie. It makes it capitalistic Of course it makes it capitalistic Fucking fucking selling products to a market based on demand. Of course. It makes it capitalistic. I don't think that's wrong No, I don't think it's bad I'm just like yeah, it is what it is To say it's soulless. Uh depends depends. I think the porgs are soulless You know, I think the crystal the precious crystal fox boys. I think they're soulless Citizen kane doesn't have toys Yes You have like a little guy dressed in a suit like my citizen kane toy The cane from citizen kane I got the parrot from the parrot scene We're missing something really important here at some point I hate everything off-handedly states that he liked the kamikaze scene and rags responds by saying it was visually stunning But it contradicted Do you catch that he said that rags said it was visually stunning didn't he say earlier Something along the lines of like That we we said something like that nothing was stunning in the film or something. Am I remembering that wrong? Um, I can't remember but at this point. I'm gonna just give you the default point What that he's just like this is What an interesting segue though. No, yeah, that's true It's like, oh, we're gonna talk about the hyperspace jump now. I was like, oh, okay Well, that's the thing this there's no structure in this it's like Rags this film does not Have zero value because it sells toys now back to the hyperspace Wait, what? So now that that straw man's fucked up Let's move on to the next one Really important here at some point I hate everything off-handedly states that he liked the kamikaze scene And rags responds by saying it was visually stunning, but it contradicted the star wars lore Yep, the hyperspace kamikaze was visually stunning, but it made absolutely no sense in the star wars universe So you left going wait explain that point How does it contradict the star wars lore because I want to be fucking doing it all the time you stupid idiot Yeah, and the counter arguments are so weak Like it's so fucking self-evident to like a normal person like even my dad Like I told this to my dad who loved the last Jedi And I said why haven't they always been doing this my dad said just don't think about it Like his he was one of those like just dismiss it. Don't worry about it. Just, you know, it was really cool Seeing it was really awesome Yeah, it looked really really neat and it was really cool in the theater Like he didn't even try and defend it because even that is better than trying to defend the bad stuff. It's just Oh man, and I'll give it to you rags like if you don't actually argue why I wouldn't even blame you because it seems so blatant Like isn't it pretty obvious the point is we would have seen this in the other films. That's that's the point We would have seen that more in this film. Yeah That's like you don't even have to go to other films all those ships that just get blown up It's like why didn't they hyperdrive like they were out of fuel? So what did they do at the beginning? Yeah, why didn't they start when they is like right when we have enough fuel to do one last hyper space jump Just kamikaze into the planes behind us Or the ships behind us figure what he was talking about again Is going to Mahler's video finding the same part and then seeing what he had to say He's fucking complaining about the fact that we have to go and find context No rags is arguing about what all you do is lack context or make lines up for us I think he's he's gonna try and say that we use very similar wording Well, he he's saying that you reference me apparently so like we have to go to my video to know what your argument is But yeah, your your video was very much a I learned a great deal from the film based on your video as many people did So there will be similarities in the ways that we um similarities in the way that we express our ideas And and this is what rags meant what I mean that brings us to a no, I said exactly what I meant No, no, he knows what exactly what I fucking meant. He knows what you're trying to get inside my head Why in all seven of the mainline episodes of star wars and rogue one up to this point Have we not seen this kind of maneuver? Okay First of all, why don't more star wars movies feature scenes of really expensive big ships that they Being used to ram into other ships stupid framing the question like that instantly shows us how little you understand the concept So every word out of your mouth quintin is just detrimental to your position what he's referencing there I think is in rogue one They disable a star destroyer with I think it's ion cannons and then they push it with like a hammerhead sort of ship Into another star destroyer and he's saying Hey, why isn't that in all the other films and my answer to that is when would it be in contextually useful to do that? And when would it have been very specific maneuver? And not just that but like it's dangerous as fuck to do that move to try and push the star destroyer When you've got tie fighters everywhere like it's not a guarantee at all hypers hyperdrive kamikaze And besides that's rogue one Who said that I think that that isn't a contradiction Yeah, and this is what about ism again And here's the thing here. So you've got The the fact that he frames this As that like this is a valuable useful ship Obviously, they wouldn't be using valuable useful ships until the time when there was nothing else you could possibly ever do with it Like in the last Jedi they would at the very last second they would turn them around and hyperspace Hyperspace kamikaze they would just take pieces of junk and strap an engine to them Yeah, there's so obviously they wouldn't have these very big elaborate useful ships and then just waste them if their purpose was to This is the other problem with this rags It's that I have I think five counter arguments I present in my own video and they're all the ones that So like, uh, this is the first time they've been able to do it. Uh, the ship has to be that big The you know, there's loads of counter arguments. I bring them all up and I knock them all down I guarantee you he's not going to reference that at all Also, someone someone went back to my original video and said indeed When I talk about how they don't use force powers in that fight. I am talking about the throne room fight So, oh, yeah, we've got the we've even got the time stamp for it That's probably the biggest flaw of this entire video because it's just a blatant malicious lie like you can't get around it It's not it's just it's not a bad argument. It's just malicious. It's just taken some mannequin Maybe the same reason that all other war movies do that So sparingly because it's not a bad idea. It's an amazing idea. They they destroyed like eight what it doesn't I believe it's 11 star destroyers and the supremacy. I believe that's the result which the price of one Holy ship. That's insane value. That is incredible value And that's just a ship that they were using anyway it not to mention all the other use they got at us And let's not forget rags. It's like, oh, yeah Remember in return of the jedi when several ships that are like the radice. They're called capital ships They're from the mont calamari. I believe Uh, at least two of them are blown up by the death star throughout that scene Where you'd be like, oh, so they probably should have just hyper-drived into the death star then That might have been a good idea if people could do that but obviously the original trilogy Ran as if you could not do that As did the prequels as did rogue one I mean that that's like I think that quinton is too stupid to understand That if this was a thing that you could do that practically all of space combat Would be focused around this one aspect this one tactic Would be the central point around which every other strategy Would be derived everything would be built around Being able to accelerate things to hyperspeed And hitting them into other things and let's just put it this way quiddence you understand Destroying a part of your fleet for the entire enemy fleet that that's a that's a plus in the book of war That's pretty fucking good. So it's definitely it's the kind of thing We'd be like at this point the first order should be hyper-driving one of this star destroyers into the radice They just just empty it out. They've got 11 Just empty it out Just a shuttle they just take one of their shuttles like yeah, just hyperspace into the radice Which makes you wonder oh, and I never even thought about it the other way Fuck you're right. Welcome to first order doesn't just take one of the transport ships put a droid on it As a slow boy has just highlighted by the way It's like why even why do you even have a death star at this point? Why don't you just create big blocks of cement and fire them into planets? I mean like it just fucks with everything so much and even if Geez if there's so much wrong with it well once upon a time We could just say it's not a thing you can do not a thing you can do but now it's like oh it is But there's all these really complicated fan invented reasons why you can't do it in any other situation I mean the fact that quintin is gonna i'm i wonder if the right opinion is going to defend it I think you'll leave this to quintin because he doesn't know star wars very well, but we'll see That is so visually stunning so clever and so obvious It'll be the opposite of clever quintin if it counters its own fucking rules If it was obvious it wouldn't be clever generally the obvious things aren't considered the clever ones in terms of the universe That you think to yourself How has no one thought of this before? Yeah, wait, you think it's so clever that it makes sense no one thought of it To literally hyperdrive it to someone why would no one have thought of that before? Like do you does quintin not understand that the original functionality of like triremes and shit is that they're rams You ram them into enemy ships, you know, it comes across as naive It's like do you know anything about humanity weaponizing shit is like one of the first things we do Whenever we find a new resource Of course, they would fucking think of this The Incomprehensible how stupid this person is Your response is to say this is bad because if this was possible One of the other we're not saying it isn't possible. We have problems because now apparently it is it both is that isn't Like is it like well, we assume that it uh isn't in the other films because they don't do it when they should do it But now we've established thing And i'm like, oh Okay, then The fact that he's trying to defend this when it's just Oh And how long has hyperdrive existed dare I even ask lower? Thousands of years in the star wars universe is like did no one try it not even some random dude It is the war hammer universe where technology is like at a stagnant point pretty much um and is Uh, it's just it's just insane all the hills to die on I know Oh man of all the hills to die on Other movies would have done this if that's the case Then I don't know what to say because then you should have kept your fucking mouth shut Why would you do that like to say shut up if you don't know what loudmouth would be what are the very I don't know poignant labels for quentin. I think through this video God press your fucking teeth Jesus You ever thought of that wow ad-hom Because you're standard for what these movies can do at this point is so limited That speaks to your imagination Yeah, that's really sad quentin that you think that setting up your own rules in your universe means that you're limited It means you have to be creative to generate new stories Just like The do you know the rules of the universe that we are in have been set since the dawn of fucking time And yet new things keep happening. How crazy is that? It's insane that he thinks that if you don't have hyperspace kamikaze, you can't have interesting space back Well, if you remember uh Uh, who who made that point? I think it was patrick williams. He said that um If we don't have holdo for no reason keeping the information from po then we don't get an interesting story That it's like oh god That's just standard for writing It's just inventing the worst reason for things imaginable or accepting a terrible reason and the idea that this is a critic who Who I and I think that every critic to some degree probably fancies. They can write things to some degree You know, they kind of go hand in hand. I would imagine Just but this lack of imagination and this this defeatist attitude Yeah That there is no possible way to have done better It's like would you have said this before rogue one came out and they Fucking use the hammer maneuver and you know, it's like See for me, right? I could I can listen out to an argument for it I know there's some people who don't like it, but when I saw that hammer maneuver in in rogue one I remember thinking to myself like, huh I guess that would work because if you disabled the ship You could then just push it into another one and the the sheer size of them probably would clash But again, if someone was like it shouldn't make sense because of x y and c I'm willing to hear the argument but as far as I know that does make sense Yeah, I would say it probably makes sense. You disable a ship if you can hit it with something and change its direction Then it essentially becomes a huge basically glorified hammer a battering ram essentially Um, but the hyperspace one No, man. Oh man. What a what a hill because we have to directly copy the first seven movies If star wars failed to reinvent if they failed to make audience reinvent also known as completely contradict yourself apparently Red con and reinvent This is grasp on to the universe in new ways if they failed to be to be interesting and new interesting You have to be contradictory to be interesting now I assist these insanely low standards that he sets for writing and again Arguing against someone who doesn't exist me and rags never said that uh You shouldn't reinvent that you shouldn't remain interesting It's like as if we would ever fucking like make these claims It's like no, we just told you to contradict rules that actually built the stakes in the previous films Joe why it was so tension-filled to see the death stop blowing everyone up in Return of the Jedi because we knew they couldn't just hype a space into it Yeah, because it was a threat you couldn't just oh, okay. I guess we'll that's that We would not have made it past episode six Or don't character is a bit as if here's thing He's like I guess he thinks in his mind that George Lucas in his three movies expanded In sorry expended every single thing that could possibly be done in the entirety of the star wars universe Yeah, it's not like it's an enormous world with amazing technology and anything else could be depicted or show Yeah It's just it's a really sad counter because it's just like just leave alone. It's new leave it alone it's so Fucking defeatist and pathetic Fucking disaster just subbing in Admiral Ackbar would not have solved anything It would have been a pretty damn good start. I would have been a good start. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I agree rags Her character was so useless forced in a necessary that you could have swapped her for admiral Ackbar And nothing would have changed in the story But many it's not the casting that defines the character is the character themselves hold those characters Yeah, tiara don't even go there holder doesn't have a character. She's a prop. She's she's there to ignore An obstruction. Yeah, she's there. She's there for pose arc if you could even fucking call it that Yeah, to be generous and call it an arc, which is like an again on arc moving backwards He's worse off because of this arc Yeah, just don't don't even bother. I'm interested to see if he's gonna fucking talk about her character I found most of holder's decisions to be more questionable rather than who she was So, yes, Ackbar wouldn't have changed much on a casting basis alone But it also didn't help the actor portraying him had passed away. I think whoever was casted. No, I don't care about the casting man Yes, that's not a point. It's it's about using someone who's already in the universe who has the exact same fucking rank And you blew him out the airlock and it's like, you know as much as I'll respect the original voice actor You can you can get an impersonator for admiral Ackbar Yeah, I mean how they CGI didn't talk in and Leia so And I mean Leia's voice changes. I mean, she's the same actor and her voice changes. Yeah. Yeah. This is the thing is it's you couldn't do it To and and just be like we've got so if Ackbar You bring in Ackbar as rag said that's a start and then we we involve this idea that he thinks po might be a mole I know it's unreasonable, but maybe we can make it work after a few Redrafts of the script Ryan, but no because everything. No, there's no possible way Everything has been done before You have to do something insane and bring it's purple air lady. Otherwise, you're not reinventing Listen admiral Ackbar is Darth Plague is the wise He just blowed out the airlock because they were like trust me From a personal point of view, especially given the context, it's more understandable Rags then makes an alternative scene suggestion It would have made much more sense if they insisted on keeping that stupid kamikaze maneuver To have admiral Ackbar be the one to do it himself Perhaps he turns the ship around and he begins to charge up the lightspeed engines And then the imperial captain sees it from the deck of the supremacy and he turns around to say It's a trap before admiral Ackbar slams through the Oh, it would have been so good. It would have been so wonderful. Oh, that would be so good You just shed a tear like oh Ackbar. You you set that trap Ackbar Oh Yeah, we're so good because admiral Ackbar is known for saying that thing But now somebody else is saying it because of him and that's what we know him for saying it'd be so fucking good I mean, it's still fucking break the shit out of the I was gonna say you wouldn't you need to go fairer than that The just that but hey, at least it would be in service of a fucking character Ship and decimates the enemy fleet which I guess is fine if that's what you want Though I think the it's a trap meme is rather dead at this point It wouldn't be a meme it wouldn't be an actual thing sense in universe. It would make sense for them to say that Because they've been following this ship around and they're all lined up and I mean To say something he said about you earlier. You didn't even disagree there, tiaro You just said like yeah, I mean if that works for you it's like all right then But even when we agree I get the this the worst the worst. Oh, yeah, he hates agreeing with you He'd be like, I guess I kind of agree with him Ultimately know less about him from the movies and we do lord urns character. What do we fucking know about lord urns? God I remember this point too So he's saying like if you look at it right now, we know more about our holder than we do about akbar And it's like that is true But only because of the last jedi where they fucking flushed akbar out the window And they decided to give her lines of dialogue. That's their choice She wasn't that's the thing if you went with my decision Right, which is better and disney could have had that one for free if they asked So we it's it was an arbitrary decision for them to have holdo exist period from nowhere And to have him die just so unceremoniously and a borderline off-screen so yeah Obviously that wouldn't have even happened if you did my idea though and it's like, yeah Holdo gets more development than akbar, which is precisely our problem. It's not That that's the reason why holdo should have more screen time than akbar. It's just such a circular reasoning Right because that's how they decided to write the characters, which was a huge mistake Both of these statements are true and whether it's a mistake or not as rags assert It's hard for us to say what would be better as we have not seen the ultimate reality Might be so much better Fucking anything would be better than holdo. Come on, tiaro Come on holdo was so fucking shit like any I'd take I'd roll the dice and be like anything Anything just something else See in which akbar is in charge for me at least I was more interested in what the character did rather than who they were Furthermore, I don't get why people act like replacing durne with akbar would have changed anything I mean in an alternate timeline It would change a lot just and replacing it with one who's established in the universe Yeah by virtue alone of the fact that we wouldn't have her crap Like they'd have to rewrite the dialogue because you wouldn't hear durne lines out of akbar don't have to change it up uh The fact that this is all about like As rags said this is a start and he's he's referenced like the payoff Obviously that's that's it's pretty superficial as a payoff because we already have a problem with hyperdrive ramming anyway But like the changes don't just stop with you Literally superimpose a fucking picture of akbar over holdo and then you rub the fill the exact same way Obviously, he would do akbar things. Yeah And you could explore his character and he could refer to the past When we fought the first that star we didn't you know such insight when he he could talk about the stuff that he had done Exactly, and it could be very In the story already Fine where the actor hadn't died and akbar had been given a featuring role They wouldn't have had to change how durne was written because akbar is such a boring life No, because he hasn't had a chance for it yet. That's the thing We don't know if he's boring and lifeless. We haven't had the chance to explore his character He has like two minutes of screen time. It's like we we don't even know akbar. This is the point. He's there We know he's he hasn't been invented. Oh, here's the thing news thing admiral akbar Has been established to do more military stuff than holdo does remember the line where he's like Oh, is that the holdo from the planet blah blah blah without the war blah blah You can swap that out for akbar the guy who took down the second death star And that actually happened like we actually saw that All the guy who helped take down the second death star obviously He's not the movie for long, but he says things. He tells people like do military maneuvers He establishes himself as a military leader God damn it quintin Is being a meme in the early 2000s Akbar being in the role would have changed nothing but the color of durne's skin Wrong only only if you decided to do nothing with He's saying the holdo looks like akbar, but with white skin That's a bit embarrassing quick That's kind of embarrassed. I don't know why he didn't salt admiral akbar. Yeah, I mean fuck. He's hot compared to holdo come on Yeah, man. It's just like man. It's so pathetic. It's an offhand statement that poe basically screwed over the rebellion with his numerous mistakes Yeah, name one name one Name one mistake poe made With the information he had It's very upset about this insisting that poe was the only character in the entire movie who was acting sensibly Now I understand why you would think this is the case because poe is portrayed To make you think that he's the hero Just reference a mistake he made quintin stopped going with a fucking metaphor But that's only so you can find out that he did wrong things later in the movie. He did wrong things That's so he just explained poe did wrong things Like if you rewrote the script in such a way that poe got killed off in the first 10 minutes And he wasn't in the rest of the movie then the rebellion would have gotten out of you're right. No No, no, he's right, but it's because of holdo not because of poe Well, what i'm what i'm saying is he's doing this thing where he acts like these characters are in a vacuum Yeah And i'm like if you change something like that with poe not being around then you would have to have somebody else To do the things and if they didn't do any of those things Well, the characters would be changed by that stuff and who knows what they would have done in that place. It's just It's it's like they like this domino effect Well, you know, he assumes His proof that poe is to blame and made mistakes Is the fact that if poe didn't exist things would have gone well But it's that's that's the same logic as you know, the winter soldier fucks up a lot of shit in Well, civil war and winter soldier you could be like so clearly winter soldier Did a bunch of wrong things because if he wasn't in it these wouldn't have happened It's like that's not true. He was he was fucking brainwashed Like it takes a bit more nuance than that poe wouldn't have made all his decisions had Holdo not been retarded. It's it's definitely holdo's fault not poe's And the thing is if poe had not destroyed the dreadnought then the movie would have been done Yeah, that's the other thing The dreadnought would have wiped them out So the dreadnought would have just blown him up if we're gonna go with the vague broad definition If poe never existed in the the film I think he said it never existed after the first 10 minutes to cover his ass there But let's say poe never existed at all the entire resistance is dead twice by the way because he knocked out the star killer I don't know man. It's it's weak. But yeah, all this because he think is like imagine like I don't what this fascination they have with holdo Well, it's just sad. It's like just let it go holdo's awful. She's a really awfully written character It's like no, no, nothing's bad about the last Jedi. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's like, oh god Man Their arguments are just just as bad as everything else's video for this movie completely fine Firstly, he destroys an entire classification of their fleet and kills well over a hundred of their barely surviving crew members Poe kills them poe I think you may have seen a different film mate Poe isn't a psychopathic murderer who runs around stabbing people or anything He's responding to people that don't exist. Maybe he's talking about a movie or not a word Oh That would explain this entire video rags. They're watching it. They've been watching a different film to us There we go. This video is like an scp This is actually like a clip from an alternate universe that somehow bled into our version of youtube. By the way, do you know, um Him saying that he that poe's killed everyone. He reminds me of like propaganda Like if you were on the front lines, you knew what poe did But then if you look at it from the perspective of like the war generals that generate all of the media Like poe is evil. He killed everyone. That's what he actually did. It's like, did he? Yeah, you think the nazis thought very highly of a silly side serve Very interesting quentin. You're like you have to sell poe's decisions as the the results we saw on screen Even though it's obviously hold those fault that everyone gets killed not poe's It's like if I and fundamentally snoke is the one who kills them. So You know, how do we want to frame this? This depends. It's completely up to you. I suppose It's To do something that has nothing to do with their survival and against a direct order from their general Now I can see because he saved everyone's lives A direct order of the from the general to just wait it out and peter die and fucking get killed If the general just sat around doing nothing as the fleet was dying He would be relieved of command on spot. I just want to if quentin was here Quentin your your general tells you to take out your pistol and point it at your head and pull the trigger. What do you do? You're gonna ignore the direct command from your general Yeah, it's the general And then it turns out the quentin's gun was swapped out for a gun that injects him with a super intelligence And strength bug that allows him to save the day and he didn't believe his general And so everyone dies because he couldn't save them with the with the injection. There you go I just created a retarded story. That's just like the last Jedi He's a bad soldier Bad soldier quentin you should listen to your fucking general The scene The scene should have been where po saves the fleet And so leia says wow, I was wrong. You saved all of our lives and this is confirmed later And you saved all of our lives Uh, it's been pointed out though. Maybe I should learn to trust those around me or put more faith in you po Because you made the right call that I didn't see The the the fact is as well You gotta you gotta consider that the bombers were already prepped For that very purpose in the beginning. Sorry, your voice isn't coming through man It's it's robot in a bit and I can't hear you now. I hope at least the stream could hear it Oh dear. Is it any better if I sound like a robot still? I'm gonna assume I still sound like a robot. Yeah Uh Hello. Hello. Hello. I heard you right. I heard I hear you now Let's just hope that was a bit of a gap. Um What I was saying is that uh Po's plan the whole time was to knock out the uh the turrets even from the beginning and so The bombers we we're assuming that must be a part of the plan because otherwise What the hell would be the point in po doing that and on top of that the bombers appear about a couple of like Space meters away from the the uh the dreadnought. Yeah, they're right there. They're they're flying with the fleet Man crude armed fuel. They are there and when you look at how slowly they travel that means that if they had aborted They would have been shot down Very easily so uh Ignoring layer in the in the beginning is absolutely valid because he was right and he does save the resistance by knocking out the dreadnought And then ignoring hold. Oh later was Completely I would have done the exact same thing And again the analogy with the uh the gun pointer Whitton's head is what I'm going for yeah The the stranger thing is how holdo wasn't mutiny the how the mutiny didn't happen like by everybody Yeah, because if you're on a ship like that, especially in a resistance Which they don't establish how official this military is but if the general is just sitting around saying Oh just have hope and you have the enemy bearing down on you and the clock's ticking and you're not doing anything Not giving any orders there is absolutely going to be a mutiny because Yeah, chain of command is important, but people don't want to be led to their Deaths anything any attempt at anything is better than just sitting there and dying and the final piece of argumentation. I think is relevant Uh Poe mutes layer For himself The bombers choose to follow poe instead of their general. So it's not poe's fault. They made their choice Like what else do you want from that scene? Yeah, that's true. Yeah pull back pull back. They don't you know And and this is the kind of stuff that this this is why a debate or conversation with quinton This would all fall apart because these are pieces of information. You can't deny. This is what's objective about the story And so you're just in trouble at that point And so it's much better to just make a video where you can invent what mean rags say and knock down Straw men and then let the jelly men fall on themselves. I just I like the idea of a jelly man It feels like something that quinton would have invented for him. He looks like he's made a jelly and so Yeah, like the I mean we've still got a good 13 No, 19 minutes of the video while we're nearly at four hours and 45 minutes of course 23 23 minutes. Yeah, there's gonna be more Stuff that he's gotten wrong, but I mean me and rags have basically torn apart an hour and a half of this Jeez So like I know there's a lot of people who want us to go right to the end But I don't think we're gonna be able to pull that off without going over six hours again, which is not exactly preferable for us I This is awful, man No, it is really bad this vid like This is the worst I've ever seen Well, I mean it's gonna be the worst for us because it's about us at least the other topics like don't concern us as directly Yeah Like this is about us and it's just blatant straw manning taking us out of context implying intention when there isn't any making shit up Like this is shit and quite frankly when the right opinion said that he was thinking about taking it down you should have You should have taken this video down because this video is a stain on your channel Yeah, I would say so as someone who actually likes a lot of the content He comes out with like this is easily his worst video. This is This is bad, man. I don't I don't know you. I don't know anything about you other than this video is terrible And yeah, I mean I stand by my video and I can back that up And I have been for the last fucking 11 10 hours But man, this would be really tough For you and some people like yeah, I'm gonna stand some people are asking if we do a part three It's like I feel like this is not gonna be anything different really I feel like we'd be beating a dead horse. Yeah, like two parts. I think is excessive alone to be honest It's gonna be two e-faps of just like normal parts through six and four or five hours Yeah, man I was gonna say you would you be happy to sort of stop here or do you want to give it a few more minutes? Like what? What would you prefer? um We let's get to the end of quintons being wrong section here and then we can call it He blew up a lot of bad guys But when they get a new leader po actively acts like she must be evil or stupid because she's kind of like the whole audience do Yeah, man, like why can you not see why people not this isn't even talking about whether or not you agree with Can't you see why people would think that and can't you see why many characters in the film see it that way? She is incompetent as a leader And again, we're meant to believe that po is on the right and that she is on the wrong So that we can find out that we as an audience are wrong Po then personally said that's not why the film definitely portrays it that way. That's what he said Yes, the film is trying to do something but it fails miserably at it and kind of proves the opposite point Because of how incompetently it's written in portrayed Hashtag po did nothing wrong Rose and Finn on a mission that almost everyone seems to agree Had no point and work directly against the cause of the rebellion and just wasted a lot of time and resources And how you can attack the director from an out of universe perspective But not the person who planned the mission from an in-universe perspective Because he wrote it broke the fucking movie quit. This isn't a thing that actually happened This is a story that someone wrote these characters are not real The characters in the film don't exist Good lord quitton. Oh my god Holdo isn't real She's a character in a work of fiction. They didn't write their own scripts Extremely confusing that's because you're a simpleton. He figures out what holdos plan is and he tells Finn po and some stranger over a calm signal He doesn't tell the entire plan and then he says by the way Go on that ship with the bad guys and then they all get kidnapped by the first order It's okay. My pausing is super delayed. Uh, yeah, he he's talking to fin It is fin's fault that dj here's the plan. He does not tell dj He tells Was it rose or po who was holding it? His po is talking to rose and fin on a little telecom and then he says have you guys found the code breaker Which has been vouched for by maz and what does fin say? Uh, we found a code breaker. That's not on po That's on the people. That's on fin. We're like, yeah, it's Damn my internet Yeah, and whenever po in they don't say that, you know, let's go someplace private or keep it down or Put it in. Do I have a headset or something? No, no, it's just Oh man, this is a weak sauce defense for it And if anything it makes it makes po and fin look incompetent not po Sorry, it makes fin and rose look incompetent not po So this is a stupid point quintin. Just like the rest of all the ones that you've made I'm just gonna do the same thing. I just distinguish between fantasy and reality. Give me give me one second Although is it real? And ryan johnson Hello, but essentially Uh, everything fin and rose does yes everything fin and rose Yeah, I was saying that this point that he's making doesn't make po look incompetent It makes fin and rose look like they fucked up royally. It's not po's fault. It is fin and rose's fault Yeah, they should have been smarter than to fucking let that guy hear the correspondence from the leader of the resistance They should have been like go in another room, please So I don't know how long quintin will carry on with this just inherently flawed idea, but okay And the stranger tells the first order what the plan is and a lot of people die But the fans stand around like oh hold on should have told him more. Yes. Yes. What that's not even you're not countering this Going you just put on a stupid voice Yeah That's not an argument. You're not making an argument. She should have told the fucking what wever's rank was commander Or major or whatever. I think he got demoted captain You tell your captain the play and I don't buy that bullshit about he she thought he was a spy No, it's not in the film killer base in the dreadknot is not in the film and she actually says that she does like him remember so you gotta Really doubt the fact that she thinks he's a fucking bull Like he's our number one war hero It's like it just doesn't make any sense and put on a stupid voice rags. You fucked you put on a stupid Yeah, I guess I really have to out of contextually They're on a ship that where they have to guard the escape pods because almost everyone is trying to sneak out Second of all po toad What does that have to do with anything? Yeah, that doesn't have anything to do with anything. Why do they have to guard the escape pods? Why would people want to leave if there's a plan? Exactly They wouldn't leave on the skate pods if they knew the plan because the plan would be better than going through the escape pods Yeah, quintin. You're dumb the less you talk the better your argument is He's making the film worse first order what the plan was and your answer is Wish to just give him more top secret militaristic Uh, no because po's not in the first order you fucking troll us like what are you talking about? Po would have heard the plan and been like right then let's sit down and do nothing to the whole film. Yeah Yeah information and was the difference between his understanding of the plan and the actual plan Really that great because you see he thought they were gonna sneak away on some ships And just try and sneak away from the battle Yeah, that's a bit different from having a planet to be able to hide on versus just sneaking away, hopefully It's space. Where are you gonna hide? This is are you he's suggesting that po's plan Is no real difference from holdo's plan or something It's like well, shouldn't that then add to our argument that you should have told in the plan because he was on Board with one that was similar Yeah Fucking hell Geez you're really in a non heroic way and then and then later later told us and well Actually, we were gonna sneak away from the battle and hide on a planet Like I don't know how more information would have stopped. How do you hide a planet? What do you mean? How he doesn't understand how more information would have it's like that information po literally says wow this might actually work Po's on board with it. So none of the shit with the stupid b-plot would have happened. None of that would have happened I was not significant as a change That's ignoring the fact that somehow the first order Just didn't look out a window and see this planet or anything like that Like that's ignoring all of that nonsense that doesn't make any sense in any universe Like how did how did tiro proof this and be like that makes sense? That's a good argument It's terrible. Oh, man Po's just an idiot literally the only thing he does right in the movie is when he helps them escape from crete without the first order noticing And the whole point of that scene is that laya literally gives him command because he's doing the right Yeah, other than every other right decision he makes that's the only right decision he makes I agree with you that was right But also the other ones were right too Unless it's not even talking about how stupid that seat is where c3po is like There is no other way out of this place that he's like wait, there's gotta be right like 10 minutes later And he's like, you know, actually yes, there may be a way out of this place. It's like Oh, I would yeah It's like there was a path, but it's covered up by you know a Closer gap or something And even I don't get it man. I just The poh thing is just it should be so cut and dry to people No, no, just but they just they I think they want to think that what the movie wants them to think is Actually like it actually makes sense Right thing Like you can pretend that from a certain skewed point of view maybe po was secretly the hero of the movie But in order to really Like what scenes should we ignore? And also why is he implying that the hero can't make mistakes? Maybe because he's used to having rabie the hero It's just a hero can fuck up You know if you do the crazy crazy thing and watch the movie and take the scenes for what they are You might come up with the idea the crazy idea that po made good decisions crazy idea though Yeah, that's like someone to comment like elvic in the chat is saying but the movie said po was wrong Like abit use your fucking brain Of characters just pointing out that he's done something stupid and that he screwed everyone over and post saying But he has it. Uh-oh, you're right. Oops daily She would have had some development in a previous movie or something. Ideally her home address would have been on alderaan Oh Rags What no po didn't no absolutely not he didn't ruin everything He was the only person in the fucking resistance who was making the right calls at the time He seemed to be the only person who was doing the right thing What's worse is that po dameron's arc if you could call it that basically revolves around him Giving up the traits of his that were useful and were successful and saved people Instead teaching him to blindly follow authority even though it will lead to worse scenarios and outcomes Or alternatively to be less aggressive and hotheaded Even if it leads to worse outcomes because of it. It makes no sense I actually follows his previous point by saying that although he accepts its plot contrivances Um, so do you want to try and I don't know do you want to just skip to the end see how they end it? Yeah There's a 20 minutes is going to take us another two hours. I think Yeah, just fucking go for it. Oh, oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. How do I hate everything try and say who isn't is to defend? Yeah, yeah, yeah me me I get to do that because because I'm objecting that Oh, you're defending his gatekeeping. I was going to say wait Do we just catch quitting say uh, see this is why we shouldn't watch it out of context We should just skip to the end what just go back just go back like 15 20 seconds. What time is it on for you right now? It's 144 59 So go to 144 40 Okay, Alex because he put the words fans in quotation marks so-called fans. Yeah, that's gatekeeping. Yeah, that's fucking gatekeeping Very simple It's just Well, yeah, surely you would get against someone deciding who isn't isn't real fans You got accused of gatekeeping by his entire audience and it's just so funny because like That's like the most classic Vision of gatekeeping you can get Like you're not a real fan like in my video I'm against gate this like the thing just because of the movie says it doesn't mean it actually is But I guess because it's not quit and says it. Oh, wow, I just realized they put the timer of your video on screen now Oh Nifty May you could have had that you know You could have had that throughout the rest of the video, but it might have gotten in the way of your points So I could have to stand why you didn't Oh, it's so embarrassing fans. You're gonna tell people who are and are not fans of Star Wars. Oh, oh, oh, yeah Yeah, how dare I hate everything try and say who isn't isn't a fan. Yeah Quentin Yeah, who gives him the fucking right to decide who isn't isn't a fan of something I think he wants to follow up with saying that you do the same thing, but I'm waiting for him to prove it I want to okay. All right. I get to do that because because because I'm objective. I'm objective I never said that But I never said that I can't foresee you liking Quentin until the end of your days, right after this video Well, he's a piece of shit Uh, so it that sums up every response we could have to quit. I didn't say that Absolutely, correct. Righto milk is way better than Quentin. Oh, yes. Definitely agree with that Him though when Alex does it that makes him a bad person. No self-awareness at all I achieve says it's not a piece of dreadful filmmaking man, that's just it's just that's We would we would have missed that if we didn't skip to this random point. I know this is the thing There's probably a lot of content left to be honest We were a random point in the rest of this film video thing trainwreck and It's him just inventing shit just making shit up him doing as that's part of the course of this video at least At least looks like guys If there is a point you want us to respond to in the end part that we're skipping over Just just know that it will commonly it will likely be us saying we didn't say that Like you could just cut that out of this video and play it whatever you see anything else I was going to say do you want to do the last two minutes? Let's see what happens in there Interrupted it is far from my favorite I achieve video but to frame him as this person who's out for the blood of everyone who dislikes the last Jedi It's something that I cannot disagree with more and when he attempts to demonstrate that he's going after extreme people Rags becomes annoyed and says he's meant to be addressing the real criticisms as if there are points that we're meant to address Some points we're not and when he expresses Some criticisms are way more substantive than others. Also. That's a really like just just just a very very um Unfair view of what rags response was. That's a very interesting Take away from my video. It would be like I'll just do the same thing TRO can't accept that rags has an opinion and this entire video is him reading about it There you go can't stand that he agrees with about as much of it as he does So he tries to tone it down by yeah, I guess you know, he says that which is fair I suppose that was a very unfair summary and the easiest counter I would have is the eye at everything sites a very reasonable set of Comments as the vitriolic backlash and rags points out that that's not the case at all with what you've just read Done. I wonder if the right opinion has said anything about the immense vitriol of his the comments in his video Yeah What he does like although sometimes rags may dispute him with fair and reasonable points Other times he just comes up with half ass explanations to denigrate or dismiss the point and he like when Like quinton Which one he's even referring to from his perspective Other than if I can't prove something with absolute certainty, then I shouldn't even make the Judgment on it. I don't know that's pretty weak sauce though Oh wait Lee brown guy said you missed an important part 144 20 if you watch it interrupted because you did miss the context They play a clip. I'm not a fan of quinton, but you did take it out of context Okay, let's take a look 144 20. I'm assuming this is back to A comment about the fans I guess keep doing the ho ho ho self-awareness points has buried any real criticism of the film self-awareness folks By the way, can we just stop to remember all the times in this video that rags has claimed that I hate everything Isn't a real fan to prove his point if you call yourself a star wars fan No, no, no, you're not what I'd call a star wars fan. I'd call you a star wars Apologist, yeah, it's the same. I mean It's pretty coy and he said a star is what I would call you You I guess you could call that gatekeeping of some kind but like only in terminology I mean that's definitely not What I mean what I would say is I do you honestly think that I would call him a star Someone who is defending star wars and who has an emotional connection to star wars is like not a star wars fan Yeah, I think that's the important distinction rags didn't say he's not a fan He said he would call him an apologist before calling her a fan So like the idea that they would say that and not see the obvious thing of I'm saying that he is Emotionally attached to it and that he is making arguments for it and that he's an apologist for it But I don't think he's a fan Yeah, I don't get the impression from that statement that he's saying that I hit everything isn't a fan Yeah, or that he's not like a real fan or anything like that. Yeah, definitely not and it's definitely not what I'd take away from it But I mean, you know It's As if I hit everything doesn't do the same but worse. I guess would be my biggest counter to that And obviously Quinn Quinn is just hypocritical to defend one and attack the other Yeah Not this destiny to comparison which is I see why he would take an issue with it I'll I guess in the future. I'll be more clear, but I still will stand up for what I said That he's he's an apologist, you know, he's he's I've said that very clearly. He's emotionally attached to it He has a star wars apologist and I think that doesn't include him being a fan of it is kind of strange Not this destiny to comparison which is insufficient on multiple occasions The destiny to comparison is extremely poignant and it works pretty much as a slam dunk Um and you've not proven otherwise to arrow from what I've seen It's like nope Although he does close the video by saying he watched the destiny to video It really does not feel like he did because it in no way reflects sort of vitriol that Yeah, the chat is saying like obviously an apologist would be include being a fan of something You know, you practice. Yeah, you would be a fan to be an apologist of the thing Yeah Unless you're playing a devil's advocate, which he's definitely not doing Are you going to be an apologist for things you hate? Like of course not obviously not Um, I was gonna say something about what he just said, but I forgot it Watch the destiny to video. It really does not feel like he did because yeah, so uh Bit bit cruel there as well tiaro taking him out of context rags did not uh say that Someone's saying the will helm scream is not in the last Jedi and that's bad is the same as the lot I hate everything's video on destiny to the point is that uh, I hate everything complains about everybody in this big bubble That includes people like me and people like those comments you referenced which are exactly the same as what rags What I had everything did in his destiny to video It's just criticism long criticism of the story the mechanics just everything and this is the thing rags approves of that stuff I like I like his destiny to video I thought it was very good and he's pointing out that I hate everything Is criticizing the people who are doing the very thing that he does is very simple like you don't need to say You see rags you're wrong because I hate everything didn't say something like there's no scream in destiny too And that's why it's bad. So they're clearly different things like that's not what rags said anyway, so Or about the concept comment that's it wasn't a comment somebody made about I was upset I was just mad that ihc criticized destiny Yeah, and I think he he might actually reference a couple of like he does he doesn't in the comment comebacks as well Where he highlights people up all the other end of the spectrum the ones who love something ridiculously It's just strange because I made a video about destiny too, and I think I said it was like Exceedingly mediocre or something like that. I was not a fan of it, and I haven't played it since I made that video No way reflects sort of vitriol that ihc is referring to in all honesty You're unlikely to enjoy the video if you're an ihc fan just because of that tone of contempt that rank seems to Pertain if this is something you enjoy wait I Wouldn't like his video if I'm not a fan of him. He said that if you're an ihc fan You're not going to enjoy rags' video just because of rags is contempt like the tone Implying that if you like ihc everything you're going to struggle to like rags' video regardless because of the tone Well, I think a lot of people have the problem of they think that if I criticize something that they like that I'm criticizing them Not to mention, uh, I would say worse for your video tro if you're a fan of me if you're a fan of rags You're fan of quintin if you're a fan of tro if you're a fan of I hit everything this video falls short massively It's uh, I was expecting more Yeah, definitely Then more power to you, but it's not for me. I'm sorry one of the more thought-provoking points made was about the negativity bus But i'm not sure I actually covered it in the right way You see for me There's a lot more to say when you find something you disagree with rather than when there's something that you agree with And in reviews and in responses like these it can often give off the impression that there was more dislike than like I can see that rags made some no there was There was it was almost like a two to one What is um, what is the footage in the background too? It's well, you see This represents this is this going to be straddling the middle line or something is that what this represents? It represents the balancing that a content creator has to do as he Attempts to navigate across the chasm of negativity that is Uh, critic criticism culture on the internet in order to hopefully reach Metaphorical success on the other side Fair points, but on balance I find that he was too obsessed with his own negativity and consequently diametrically opposing himself to almost everything that i actually said I think you diametrically opposed yourself to almost everything rag said because you're trying to defend. I hate everything no matter what Yeah, he sounded kind of grudging that you agreed with me a lot of things Yeah, it was difficult to watch you agree with rags because of how difficult you made it look if you're like I guess because we fucking agree Oh, no, it's okay Saying that they love I I hate everything, but they also liked my video. So that's the thing I like I hate everything. I still watch some of his videos, but like when I watched your takedown I was just like, yeah, that was pretty easy for you to do because I had everything made a piss-pull video and this is the thing when we talked to him. He said he regrets making it It was like extremely rushed. He doesn't even know what the point really was for the video I mean, there's there's I ate everything regretted making his the right opinion Clearly had regrets because he was seriously considering taking it down I never thought about taking mine down and I don't know why you would because it holds up never had a Incling of a thought in my head of taking my video down because I stand by it This is not to say that me and rags have not made any error whatsoever in any small way in both of our videos that have been criticized you Uh, I accept the fact that I didn't eat before this I accept that I need to be more explicit In many parts of my videos So that people don't I will I'll do the same. I will try to be more explicit when I talk um, I'll many months have gone by and Yeah, I'll say the e-faps have helped me a lot Yeah, we got sort of reflect I'm gonna start Yeah, it really helps to get your yours and wolves and Cinema sin sins and smuds and all that to get their opinions. It really helps out And I'm it's my intention to do reviews in the future on games And we got some line to do when I start doing content really soon for everyone if you're asking Um, and doing the e-faps will definitely help when I look over things same thing with watching People like Matthew Matosis and stuff You know, you learn a lot from doing it yourself over and over and from watching other people who are better than you At that do it as well and let this video be a lesson as to how you do not respond to people Like you don't invent things they said you don't change what they said to mean something else like Literally taking a clip and saying it's from a different section of the video that shit's Bucked up. Don't do that. Yeah I mean and and you can respond to videos Where nobody says anything wrong. You can have a different way of maybe like if if somebody Wants to I mean if it really is all subjective And some of this wasn't some of this was talking about, you know objective stuff in the film But you don't have to necessarily disagree with somebody to make a response to them Yeah And turning perceptively anodyne statements into controversial anodyne statements I I'll have to look it up anodyne. Is that a word? anodyne Not likely to cause offense or disagreement and somewhat dull. All right Yeah, not likely to provoke dissenter offensive and offensive often do anodyne. I have never heard of that one I'm putting that in my list. Not saying it's wrong to use words. I've never heard of i'm just saying anodyne The other thing I it's fine to use words and stuff. I wish you'd Have a word of the day or a word of the video or it's fine if you use a word and then Tell us what it means But like if I was listening to this and that word went by I don't know what that word means So I wouldn't understand The idea you're trying to get across which is detrimental if you're trying to get across an idea Um, and yeah, if the point is that he's taken Inoffensive comments from I had everything and made them Offensive it'd be like why not just say that why say anodyne an anodyne? I don't even know what Variation he used and again, you could be like well more like he knows what it is. I know what it is Who cares if you don't and I'd be like that's fair enough. I've never heard of the word anodyne before that's all Never I It has a why I didn't spell it wrong. Yeah, same for me. I typed it didn't type it with a why It's like a fucking lord the rigs word but uh Yep, anodyne just everything that I she's set and turning perceptively anodyne statements in Perceptively anodyne statements. Come on, man. Get your key get done with all my yeah All my art assets are now officially finished as of an hour ago. So I'll Make sure there's going to be edits to it. Oh, that's great. I'll look at those after you guys This is completely subjective. How many percent of people do you think understood when tiaro said he makes perceptively anodyne statements Um less than a five I think less than that too Yeah, I if I mean like I I get it It's fun to let everyone know that you know a word most people don't know. It's good to have that knowledge But ultimately if you say it and you know that people Are not going to understand what you're saying Then why did you bother saying it especially when there are words that make it easier? Like inoffensive is the word I would use instead innocuous Bland neutral. Yeah, just yeah, it's like you could say something like his inoffensive Um harmless anodyne statements, you know, like really like that's the way to do it So now whenever you hear that word again, you're like, oh because I because it was used such and such And and I'm not this isn't a a point against his point jettison seven percent, which isn't a lot I'm just saying that top memes I would just say no one knows what you mean. So no, yeah Words are trying to you know, that's what words are for The controversial ones to sum up. I do not like rags video. I wish him the best and hope that he takes my feedback in good spirit Your video is shit. Oh Great though. I don't necessarily how does rags take your video in good spirit exactly tiaro How does he do that to be completely honest? I guess I could have been more clear on some things That's the best thing you can say. But that's really the best that I can do man. Like I'm gonna be real with you What a train wreck Yeah, like I will I This is just maybe a reminder to sometimes remind myself To be clear and concise And that's really taken it pretty far So I'd expect them to for me though, pass this video Which feel intended to spite or turn people against. I hate everything. Good god tiaro. What can we say about parts of your video? They're intended to lie about me and rags to sell us short people to fucking hate me I get the impression you want people to hate my fucking guts And for anybody who's curious at the beginning 20 minutes of this part Me and rags read out a lot of the top comments from his video. They are not very kind to rags Hate me. They hate rags. They want to punch me, dude They don't like me at all get off the high horse immediately Tiaro, it's a rotting corpse of a horse. It's not a good one to sit on Good lord Enough of your hyperbole Thing in ways that I don't think I could endorse ever. I'm aware. He's not looking for my endorsements, but that's Tiaro, I don't care about enforcement from someone like you and I certainly don't give a shit about what quinton has to say Why would rags what you're endorsement at this point? Why would I want your endorsement? Like again, I'm still I'm still friends with with with tiaro and I would probably happily have him Read through a script before I release it just to get his perspective But you given no reason for rags to think anything of you in a positive light. Let's put it that way Yeah Generally you start off with your strongest work Also, I just saw that I just want to point out rags that use the word detrimental when you could have said unhelpful Detrimental is a very common word Yeah, I think colloquially most people understand what detrimental means Like is bad for that's what I've always known detrimental to mean like it. I don't I think that's pretty common compared to anodyne Yeah, I don't know and this is subjective like I can't know what everyone knows about words I'm just going from what I know about talking to people in my daily routines Detrimentals use far more than anodyne All the time. Yeah A detriment as opposed to my opinion. Yeah, but I get it We could always there's there's words me and rags will use that could have simpler versions I just want to use words that I know people have heard Yeah, I'm not saying dumb down your language to the lowest common denominator Just if you want to sprinkle in some words that most people won't understand Let people know what that word means or else there was no point in saying it at all I've been showing off that you know a word that most people don't Yeah, you know what? I think detrimental is pretty anodyne I just hate quitting more. I'll take it. I'll fucking take it. I'm sure many of you are familiar with him already On top of that even bigger. Thanks to everyone One two three four five six seven eight nine editors Geez nine editors man Who's been involved with editing this their links will be in the description to check out their stuff This was not easy to make anyhow. I'd love to hear what you think. Let me know in the comments below until Yeah, we know what they think Yeah, they fucking hate me because you've painted a picture of me that isn't true. Thanks a lot for that tro I appreciate that Thank you And I think that's then I'm the right opinion and I'll see you in the next one And yeah, obviously we can't respond to everything in the video We've missed out about 20 minutes, but I think that was pretty solid considering We've gotten I think that's like nearly oh coming up to 12 hours of content for you guys if you if you call it content I guess it did So, yeah, just just for the closing statements of this video Really awful, uh, just just goddamn awful and it's it's so awful because of the fact that it's so, uh I don't know malicious towards both me and rags Yeah, and I've probably done that in the past too I would say I have but that's something that I know now to like kind of watch for I suppose to really Remind myself not. Oh, yeah, this will be a strong lesson for me going forward like to make sure I'm very careful about what people fucking say because good lord you can Lie very easily and that's not to say that me and rags have ever done We have a principle when it comes to responding people We do not fucking take their comments and tell people they they were about a different thing That's fucked up. Yeah, man. Like I can hate your guts. Like I would never take a native sarkeesian I would never take jonathan. I would never deliberately Take them out of context like that. I would never do that. I just I wouldn't I wouldn't Oh Living with myself Because I know every day I wake up that I did that it's not a good counter If you you literally invent the cat the thing in the first place It's like do I need to explain what a fucking straw man is to you quentin like come on This is a whole there's a reason why that's the most commonly used fallacy It's like the one of the easiest ones to prove And how long did it take us we were like, oh, yeah We have to search through the entirety of rags's video So we had to get someone to find this the fucking stamp for us because of how hard it is to find out whether or not he's lying Yeah, adomi said I was surprised by some of the top comments for rags in the video He was like it was like I was like this does not sound like rags at all I was like, yeah, probably because I got fucking edited So much that yeah, you you might get that impression because I get little tiny snippets Rag is your name is rag from now on according to this, remember Rag is dead. Oh, I'll get through the legs. Is it dead? He was murdered So who's the biggest piece of shit was uh movie bobble quinton It's like for me and rags It's gotta be quittin just because of the shit that he said about us Movie Bob hasn't even acknowledged our existence really he he said a few quotes that May have come from my video. That's the most movie Bob's ever done Yeah, but then again movie Bob's the person where if he had an infinity gauntlet There would be no republicans alive and I don't mean that as a joke. Yeah, so I guess we could say like For the masses the worst is movie Bob for us. It's quinton and it's probably I don't even know if quinton's aware that we've made these two responses I know that to ro is and I'm still going to try and see if I can get him on the next EFAP so that he could perhaps discuss anything he wants to discuss I'm not sure where that would go I told him he's going to do that. I seriously don't but we will we'll see what happens with that In regards to legends. It was like taking a nice. Oh wait. I read that. Sorry in the movie up Tells an entire life story in eight minutes. You can do a lot in 11. Yep Thank you both for these videos. I'm finally in the camp Um of god, it skipped. Why did you do this to me? God damn it There we go in the camp of criticism Objective criticism of our bad art is real and it usually comes down to the craft anyone who says otherwise as a fake artist um Character flat lines fin the storm trooper who one movie ago watched other troopers mass execute people lins There are bad people in the galaxy Imagine that it's it's yeah, it's bizarre the morality is confusing fin and it's like The the the market in which the bad people exist is run on selling Shits to both the good and bad and he's just like, oh man, everyone's capable of bad I guess I'll I guess I'll just sacrifice myself for the resistance like that doesn't pan out at all film Uh, who's worse quinton or the not so great debate guy? I have to say the not so great debate guy was way more honest Like he had he was honest had some bad arguments, but by the end of the the conversation I believe he was saying that he was sort of Came around to some of the ideas if I remember and the fact is he was willing to talk to us Um, yeah, he was willing to talk and he wasn't like lying or anything He was legitimately defending a point that he actually held with the best of the information that he had Um, thank you more on rags for showing us how inept the majority of these viewers are keep it up boys great work You bet Uh, the u.s made kinetic energy missiles which go from space down to earth and are nothing more than a big bar of Metal so why wouldn't going at the speed of light with any dense aircraft destroyer ship? This is the thing um, and if they make the rule that they can't it makes Warfish so much easier in star wars because otherwise they'll have to account for it in every single battle But now they've said you can and so now I'm just looking forward to episode nine when there's a space battle and then they have to do something to account for I'm so curious about episode nine man. I am just I like I like I like I said I don't consider myself like a star wars fan anymore Um, like I like the you know not I guess not in a colloquial sense like I like the universe and everything but I feel like I completely It's like I just cut away seven and eight Yeah, and solo just cut them away. They don't exist And that's star wars for me Yeah, I would just say I'm a fan of stars as a whole but I'm obviously thinking about the good times whenever I consider myself a fan I'm like, oh man. The best of star wars. That's where I'm at Um, why didn't they ram the ships that were losing fuel into the enemy fleet? We did mention that Good question. Yeah, that's a good question. Um, maybe quentin can fill us in More leave become this series mr. Plinkett I mean he did a great video on the last Jedi just like me. I feel like me and him have very different styles, but Yeah, his video was really good And it was just like it came out so late They they clearly didn't want to just rehash everything that had already been said. Yeah So that mind it was a good it was a good Good bit Since there's no up and down in space couldn't a large fleet just hyperspace come from underneath another fleet If they did that in the movies and it breaks all cinematic battle rules Yeah, that um, that's a part of the space battles. I mean they depending on what direction they are coming from Yeah, but generally it's like in star trek They always have the ships meeting on the same, you know, plain same, you know access or whatever Um, I think that's just done for simplicity of the viewer's sake. Yeah But also but in real but in real life that would that would be an issue Um, I don't think it'd be a huge one generally ships would probably as a As a courtesy they would level off with each other Or there would be like a fixed up and down A system that everybody would adhere to whenever meeting another ship, but Yeah, you're right And let's be honest. It's like don't don't these conflate. It's like the rules of the space battles are out the window now Like who knows what they'll do Uh, the scene would have been functionally the same if akbar crashed the ship and the snokes ship at sub light speed um Sub light speed. I'm not sure what the um Sub light speed is slower than the speed of light Oh, you see you're saying like if he'd actually just piloted it into them lie into it Yeah, I'd be I'd be all bold with that would be really cool Imagine the ship getting torn apart as it finally makes its target, you know, like it gets to them just as it's falling apart It just crashes right in I think it'd be amazing if like the ratus Was like stuck inside the supremacy like it was fucked up But it was like wedged in it went in a certain distance and just got stuck in there And then for the episode 9 you could show that damage persists You know, um, but yeah, even and even then that's sort of like a weird thing to think about because Just as as fast as a ship can go, you know, because if a ship can go to light speed, you know, how fast can it go Without using a hyperdrive. Yeah, that's ramming into other things. It would just oof interesting to think about um anodine had a popularity bump in 1860 currently detrimental is used 28 more times more frequently than anodine I'm assuming that's like based on daily or I don't know, but um, yeah, I like I said, I believe that anodine is less common than detrimental, but you know, um Uh, the last Jedi was bad bandwagoning come ditch That rags needs to be neutered day of the snip when intellectual giant I mean, I think it's commenting on how uh It'd be a subby boy. Yes, uh Thanks for the vids. I recommend checking out david stewart on youtube He's a fancy writer who makes a lot of videos about storytelling I have heard of him people want me to talk to him about civil war because he thought civil war was really bad so Who knows maybe one day that seems to be the premise for a lot of possible conversations I could have so many people Really don't like civil war. I really like man. I love civil war. I know this is complicated that one I love watching you work guys. I don't know how I ever lived without e-fab. Also if you could play any tabletop game What would it be? Oh, there's a lot Thank you dragons Yeah, I don't know I don't yeah, I don't know either. Um I'm really not sure. I'm really not sure there's a lot of ones. I wouldn't mind just trying I'm assuming do they mean over the internet or do they mean like real life and I don't know. Um, and when it comes to real life I'm a really big fan of apples apples is probably my favorite board game or a tabletop game ever since um But when it comes to like online board games, that's tough. I don't really do online board games. Maybe I should Maybe I really should more Quinton keeps gas lighting. TRO is a pretentious crumpet snafu T-shirt. I e-fap to you We will make an e-fap shit one day Just um, we'll have to run it for a bit longer though, because I mean this is the ninth episode with very much an early podcast Yeah, but I can do that like I have a t-spring store set up that I will be launching with my next video I could get an e-fap shirt and put it on there I was I was gonna once I saw the tfa stuff I was gonna commission some art for both my channel and um E-fap and then go from there with making some kind of shoot We'll definitely definitely do it uh down the line because e-fap is just getting lots of positive responses and stuff Uh, so we had like 1800 1700 people watching it once. We just pretty good for Yeah, yeah, definitely and and whenever a new Controversial video essay comes out people are like do it do it because like that what about send them are away The one from box that came out recently like we'll cover that uh eventually but man that looked really bad as well Um, but yeah, so I guess we'll probably wrap up there. All I'll say is that um You know, you can check out me and rags channel's with our main channels with the um This in the description, I believe but um if you want to see this Uh podcast and and the channel it belongs to there is a second channel called Moola, I think you can actually find it just by typing in mula now It's it's got enough subscribers to be recognized by youtube. Um, I'm putting a link in the chat as well Hopefully it shows up whenever I try this a lot of the chat just lags the fuck out. Um We've got uh next I'm gonna see if I can set up having tRO on at some point If not, we we've got doomcock in the uh in the wings as well to come on and obviously plenty more videos To respond to considering this one was from what more than half a year ago and it took us to Very long e-fabs just to respond to it. So You know Plenty of content to come and again chat has just frozen for me. It always does whenever I I link the uh the channel Can you see it for you rags? Has it come up for you? In the description no in the uh the chat Um Yeah, I see your links the four of them. Yeah, okay good. Yeah, so that channel you can find the uh The videos that's going to be uploaded from here and um me and rags of channels You can find through the description and that's about it. Wolf will return I'm not sure. Um, how many e-fabs will have before he he comes back and that's about it for updates So yeah, we'll have um, we'll have other guests to Tide you over so that even if you get sick of the two of us, you'll have somebody else to listen to as well Yeah, um, hope you guys have fun. Thanks for joining us. Thank you very much for the generous donations and we will see you next time Hooray