 Good morning, everyone. We are right at the top of the hour, so I want to be mindful of everyone's time and ensure we get started. I do see that folks are quickly joining in. We'll go ahead and get over, get through our housekeeping for today. And maybe that'll give folks a few more time minutes to get on seeing some folks come along now. If you're just now joining us, my name is Casey Bowden. You're looking for closed captioning. All you're going to need to do is click the link below in your Zoom window, and that should be available for you. So let's go ahead and get into things. I see our panelists are here online with us. If you're just now joining us. Great. A few more folks jumping on for just now joining us. Thank you for coming on today and spending your morning with us. My name is Casey Bowden. I'll be here to navigate us through today's webinar as we hear the discussion about navigating accessibility from our panelists. To share a visual description of myself for folks, I am a Caucasian female with long blonde hair, bearish skin tone, and blue eyes today I'm wearing a black long sleeve quarters that down shirt. On the screen, we have a few housekeeping items for today's webinar that I will now read for you. I know that while unfortunately we do not have sign language interpretation today, closed captioning is most certainly provided. We too, as both of our organizations continue to strive for that gold level standard of accessibility and hope to provide this in future webinars. So closed caption is available just select that closed caption icon at the bottom of your zoom screen. All of our phones are muted to prevent any background noise or disruptions. However, if you're experiencing technical issues or need assistance, you can do one of two things. Just make a mention in the Q&A, or you can simply raise your hand in your window and our admin will unmute your line so that you can speak. Today you'll be able to post any questions you have in the Q&A box. We are recording today's meeting so that if you're able to join us, you'll receive a recording of this after the event today. All right, let's jump right in and look at our flight plan for today. I'll quickly introduce you to our panelists. We'll tell you a little bit about who they are. We're going to get into an overview of navigating accessibility, talk about some of the barriers to injury. We're going to speak about testing. We're going to hear about a case study of someone who was able to implement and remediate successfully. And probably my favorite part of the low hanging fruit, like how in the world are we going to get started today? So excited to just jump right in. Today, our panelists, what you're seeing, what is on the screen moment at this moment is two headshots, a headshot of three of our panelists. This is Ashley Burns, Maggie Vaughn and Blaine Herman. I will ask each of them to give a visual description of themselves when you hear from them today. So let me introduce them. Ashley joined Promet Source almost five years ago, I believe, as a strategic account manager, at which time she secured her international association of accessibility professional certification. She was the top priority when she joined the team. So among many of the factors that drop her dedication is the fact that her mother has experienced significant vision loss. So Ashley recently shared with me that she's constantly grateful for web developers out there who are mindful of accessibility guidelines and that enable her mother to engage online as well. Maggie is with Dubbot, and she says that she lives and breathes digital accessibility. Maggie has served as an accessibility program manager for university and is now the content marketing practitioner for Dubbot. She draws upon her professional experience as well as her firsthand perspectives of navigating websites with significant hearing loss, in addition to a relative with cognitive challenges, who relies on his handheld device to navigate bus routes in the outside world. Maggie shared with me recently that she feels that online experiences need to embrace the full spectrum of humans. And last but not least, Blaine Herman, Blaine is the founder and CEO of Dubbot and has more than 19 years of experience in web governance and accessibility. As the leader in the accessibility field, Blaine will be my technical co-facilitator today. So you'll hear a bit from Blaine, but we most certainly will have him available so that we can tap into his long running knowledge and experience and accessibility. With that being said, Ashley, could you tell us a bit about Promet Source? Yeah, thanks, Casey. Hello and welcome. My name is Ashley Burns. I'm the account manager at Promet Source. My pronouns are she and her. I have fair skin. I'm wearing a green shirt and today I have very dark and very wavy hair. I'm excited to be here and I appreciate all of you taking the time to be with us and learn a little bit more about accessibility. And I'm going to share with you a bit about Promet Source and our journey. We're a modestly sized agency. We're not the smallest. We're definitely not the biggest, but I'd say we're pretty big on web standards and best practices. We're huge on meeting the needs of our clients and they're primarily the public sector. So for them, accessibility is a legal requirement. But for us, it's a lot more. Everyone at Promet Source is committed to open source and they're committed to accessibility. And we're going to talk about why that is shortly. Thanks, Ashley. Blaine. Tell us a bit about Dubot. Hi, this is Blaine Herman. My pronouns are he and him. I am a Caucasian male with dark brown hair, wearing a blue button down shirt, which is pretty much the same shirt that I was wearing my headshot so it looks like I don't change very much. Dubot is a US based accessibility testing tool. We work with hundreds of different customers, mainly in North America, providing automated website accessibility testing. All right, let's jump right into the review Ashley. The overview. So I said we were going to talk about why, why we're big on accessibility and that's because it affects us all. According to the CDC one out of four people in the United States are living with one or more disabilities. And as the population ages that that's only increasing. So we think it's a problem that affects everyone. We also bake it into every step of the process at pro met with design development, QA, everybody. It keeps accessibility top of mind, because it gives access to all users, not just those with the disability. It costs less to begin your accessibility in the design process. It lowers the chance of having lawsuits with because of accessibility issues and also SEO is improved. And that's good accessibility. Those are some of the reasons why I'm screen readers search engines they rely on title tags. Search engines also scan for alt text logical header hierarchies are important for ranking and screen readers function as most effective when the page navigation is straightforward, which is also increases your ranking. So we're going to talk a little bit about the web content accessibility guidelines or WCAG, which are a set of guidelines produced by the W3C. And this is basically the industry benchmark and standards for accessibility. Many as many of you has probably seen this is what it looks like. When you're looking at the rules or guidelines for WCAG. They're extensive. So we're going to break it down a little bit here for you and talk about some of the four principles of WCAG that are contained in these standards. Ashley, I think I remember you telling me there's 60 plus 67 rules rules. Okay, I hope you're going to break that down and make it a little more adjustable for folks like me today. Yeah, so there's four principles what you're looking at here is a table of those four principles. The acronym is poor. We start with perceivable. And so that is going to be all your issues like color contrast font size close captions. Next we have operable. So that means that users must be able to perform all the interactions using a keyboard or mouse. Understandable we have to make sure that information and instructions are clear, and that the navigation is easy to use and understand. I'm sure most of you today filled out a form to join this webinar, but if you're like me. You've all experienced filling out forms that are that are not so accessible and you unsure which which field was left blank or it's not always very clear how to do that so that's an example there. Lastly, we have robust content must be robust enough that it can be interpreted by a wide variety of assistive technology. And then we come to the conformance levels that are contained in those guidelines. And so here we have a list of those three level a double a and triple a. And of course we all strive for for triple a that would include some things like having an interpreter sign for us. We, we meet level double a compliance that is essentially where the most big, the most common and the most, the greatest number of issues lie so that is, is the standard we're all looking to achieve for compliance. Excellent. So we know the standard, I'm sure. Well Maggie already telling us there's barriers. You can tell us a bit more about those. Good morning. My name is Maggie Vaughn, I am a Caucasian woman with short gray hair, blue eyes, black flamed glasses and I am wearing a pink V neck sweater, and my pronouns are she and her. Yes, we are going to talk about some of the typical more common barriers that people can run it up against when they are in gauging and digital content. There are seven on the list here and each one there's a whole lot to say about each one. In the interest of time. I just want to hit on probably the most impactful points for each one so I'm going to get started. The first one is lack of keyboard only navigation. Who does this impact. Clearly it impacts people with certain disabilities that can't use a mouse to navigate your website. There's also a group of users called power users, and those are people that may or may not have a disability that prevents them from from using a mouse but they use a keyboard primarily to navigate the website. So what that tells you is that ensuring navigation through keyboard only gives a broader range of usability for people and and it makes it accessible for everybody. Then you have next is incorrect header hierarchy what your header hierarchy hierarchy does your h1 then your h2s h3s is that is the structure that creates that logical flow of content for people that do use keyboard only or for people that use screen readers your headers are what keep keep your logical flow of your content so you want to make sure that those are in the proper hierarchy. Next in the list is nondescriptive links what do I mean by nondescriptive. Sometimes you will see a link that is the actual URL. You will see it in your websites and some Word documents and emails. Okay, what we want to do with that nondescriptive link text is create a link that is descriptive and the reason why is people that use screen readers. The screen reader reads that entire URL and it's a lot of us know especially with Word docs. Google docs you have an extraordinarily long URL and screen reader will read that entire thing. For someone who cited, we see oh it's blue and it's got an underline and that means we can click it. So, if we're not doing nondescriptive link text then we're not providing an equal experience for everybody that comes to your website. Next is insufficient alt text. Alt text is that description of that image that is number one it's used by screen reader users. It's a good way to describe what that image looks like, but there's also another use of alt text, and that is if for some reason, your link to your image is broken. The alt text will still appear when your page render so using alt text, it's good for screen reader users, and it's also good for cited users in the event that your link to your image fails. Next we're talking about faulty color contrast. Okay, plain and simple if your contrast is is incorrect, if your contrast is not high enough, you've created a situation where it's really difficult to read your content. So, you want to make sure that you've got that in check. Next is missing video captions this one is especially near to my heart since I do wear hearing aids. And at the end of the day when the hearing aids come out and I sit down to watch a movie. I expect to see the video captions. So, it's really important for people with hearing loss as well as people that are in a quiet space, like in library, and can't have the sound on they can, and put in the video captions and still enjoy the movie or show that they're watching. And finally, incorrect choice of fonts. Okay, this is a big one. I know it's something that I think that's that's not normally at the top of the list when we think about barriers. So, there's a large collection of typefaces and fonts to choose from, but you need to be very, very conscious and and keeping as Ashley has said keeping accessibility top of mind when you're making a choice about the fonts that you're going to use and your digital creations. And I am my team continue to learn Maggie as we go along and I actually reached out to you and said, I have some fonts that I really like. I have some favorite fonts come to find out those are really accessible and you you gave me a really nice tool for that. There is one of my go to places is accessibility at Penn State. And I've got a link that we can put that in and follow up emails and share that resource with everybody, but it's a really great resource they give you a lot of really good information about typefaces and fonts, and then really give you a nice information on how to go about choosing a really good accessible and readable font for your digital creations. Excellent. Yeah, I know that some of those barriers that you talked about Maggie, not only are they do they help you meet accessibility guidelines, but they really just make the user experience better for everyone like absolutely. You're a color contrast. When you're on your phone. Looking at the web on your phone outside and it's sunny. And it's hard makes up layer makes it hard to read the screen. This helps everyone. And then this is an also an example of color contrast and font ratios and guidelines just to give you an idea of what your font needs to look like and that's the size that it needs to be. And then there's some of the information that Maggie had shared with me that we were able to learn from as well. Okay, let's jump right in to testing when and how. Hi, thank you Casey. We have just covered a list of more common barriers that people can encounter so you want to see do those barriers exist in my website so of course you would run tests. Okay, so when do you want to test, you want to make sure that you have a scheduled cadence for all your testing, and you kind of you want to talk that over with your team because it's that that's a, you're going to determine like what kind of structure do you have do you have a distributive content creation where you've got six or 12 content editors. So that could have an impact on that cadence, and you certainly want to test after every major update accessibility testing needs to be built into every phase of your development lifecycle. You don't want to wait till the end, you don't want to wait until it goes live, because you going back in retrofitting is going to be time consuming and probably going to cost you more money. And you also want to make accessibility testing and check item for your acceptance testing. So how do we do testing there's two types of testing. There's automated testing, and there's manual testing, and I'm going to talk to you a little bit about automated testing, automated testing. Simply, it's having software that can scan your website and help you find those barriers, those accessibility issues and measure it against the WCAG compliance. One of the great things about automated testing is that it really helps you expedite the process of finding those common barriers and those areas errors in your site. It's also makes it very easy for you to repeat those tests in different sections of your website, and you can schedule that cadence that we talked about earlier you can schedule those inside of that software. It does come with some limitations. Okay, automated testing can't possibly find all of the accessibility issues. For example, it can't tell you whether or not your site is fully keyboard accessible. It can't replace that human interaction, how people use the website. I mean, I use it differently from Ashley who uses it differently from Casey, and the human interaction is what's going to find those nuances. And that automated testing does not guarantee that you have an accessible website. Excellent. All right. Jumping right forward from automated to manual. Absolutely. So, you know, as Maggie said, manual testing is going to build upon the automated testing, because obviously, you know, to reiterate you can't detect all the errors using only just the automated tools you have to actually combine that with the human analysis and user testing and actually using the screen readers or other assistive technology. So the benefit there is for your reports and your audits is that you're going to find all the errors on your site using manual testing. And there's a couple different different things to point out. You want to ensure that your report is actionable. And you make sure that you have it classified and issues based on complexity and severity. The way prioritization can be given to, you know, the most critical issues. You want to make sure that the report is organized. You know, an easy for users to test so they can incorporate that into every part of the development life cycle. Then we have a couple of different options for manual testing. So in order to do that in-house, you're going to need a team of accessibility testers that will perform QA on your site. Or you can consult and work with an outside consultant and they can provide a report for you. That can be done like a one-time report where they'll identify all the issues, the barriers they encountered and what needs to be remediated. You can work with a partner, you know, on an ongoing basis if you maybe don't have the staff in-house to do that. These partners can work with you on everything from training your staff to do that to a full service or, you know, full scale design and development of an accessible site. So there's different options that are out there and available to you. There's different options. And before we hear about some suggestions to move forward, I want to remind folks the Q&A is open. You do not need to wait until the end of today's discussion. Go ahead and pop your question there because we most certainly don't want you to forget your question. And Blaine is already working on building some of those questions as we go and then we'll try and answer some of them live. So feel free to use that. Okay, so Blaine, we heard from Maggie on automated. Ashley told us how manual just builds upon automated. Which one do we do? Which one's the best one to use? So it's a great question. And of course the answer is both. So we have lots of stories and anecdotes that we can share. But one happened this week, meeting with an existing client of ours that we have that actually is in attendance today. We started with a lawsuit from a private citizen that let them know or serve them letting them know that their website was not accessible. And it was the different provisions or reasons why it was not accessible were both with things that could be found through automated testing and through manual testing. So it would just be very simple, kind of like keyboard navigation, but others that, you know, got a lot deeper. But yeah, there's, there were plenty of provisions in there, and it just underscored the reason why you really need to test on both sides. Okay, great. I, you're right, I think we all knew that the combination and the answer to that but that's a great real life example Blaine I appreciate you sharing that. I think that Ashley here, you have yet another example of an organization that was able to bring both together for success. Yeah, that's right. This is a quote from one of our clients here at Lehigh University. At Lehigh on their navigation, we worked with them to redesign it to make it accessible. And I think this is a pretty, and a pretty powerful quote, as they say, as she says we, when we were started with working with Promet, or if you had asked me a year ago what we had been hoping to gain from our engagement with Promet I would have said a new navigation, but we've gotten that and so much more in terms of insights and new ways to look at and improve upon the usability of the websites we create. The reason I think this is so impactful is because you know the goal, which was to set out for the new navigation became a lot more than that. And really understanding how users are experiencing or interacting with their site. It opened up to a lot of insights and it also the results were a huge success. So I think that was, that was pretty great. What I think the coolest part of this example is actually is really sets forth and comes home around the fact that all users can benefit from implementation. Exactly. It was much more than just meeting a requirement. Great to hear. Okay, moving along. This is the part I have been waiting on to share with people because once I go to a webinar, I always want to like jump off and get started and you know put into action all the things that I learned so Maggie will you let us know how in the world we can walk away and get started today. Absolutely. Thank you, Casey. What you see on the screen is Ashley and I took our list of barriers and we've added one or two extra ones in here and and tried to take them and put them into an effort level situation but I also I want to let you know just because that one says hi that doesn't mean that it's excruciatingly painful to to have these to get started on making these things accessible so in the low effort column we have fonts headings links and lists in medium we have tables video captions contrast and in high we have text sizing to say that 10 times fast cover slash focus states and alternative text. All of these, all of these barriers, and also things that can be quickly changed up are great ways to get your, your team started on talking about what accessibility is making these small changes that make big impact. And, and, and it's not painful I promise it's not painful. So as Ashley and I were looking at this slide. We thought we really should give you an example of making that that small change that makes that big impact. And we chose something that's probably the most prolific thing on the internet today and that is links. And to talk to you about what we're what we mean about a non descriptive link. Here's an example of a non descriptive link this was in that list of barriers that we talked about earlier. And as you can see these are Google Docs. This is one of the ones that makes the longest URL in the world. So, if you have this link on your website, a sighted person would say it's blue, it has a link, or has a line and so it's a link and I can click on it. And someone that uses a screen reader, the screen reader would say link, HTTPS colon backslash backslash docs dot Google you get the point. And therefore we haven't created an equal experience here for the user. So, what you want to do is turn that around and give it that descriptive text. Okay, now that top link reads DIY with gag 2.1 level AA manual audit template. And now you have given that link and I an ID, and now you're letting users know when they click on that link. This is the content that they're going to interact with. And it just so happens that these two links are actually tools that you can use to get started today. Thank you so much. So everybody be on the lookout for those emails because we, we're going to share those with you. Excellent. So, on the screen now, we are going to move right into our Q&A session. We have some of those in queue. I'm going to go back to the last slide and I'll let you know what's on this slide. This is contact information for Ashley and Maggie. We do not get to your question today. Please feel free to reach out. And we've asked Ashley if she'll go ahead and reach out to folks who joined today, we don't get to your questions. She'll be able to answer them then. And then she's going to share the resources from this webinar and we actually think another one came out Maggie's going to make sure that we get the link to the Penn State Research. So we're going to pepper you with as many resources as we can. So on the screen, Ashley Burns, chromate source, A Burns, A-B-U-R-N-S, at sign chromate source, P-R-O-M-E-T, S-O-U-R-C-E, dot com, C-O-M. We're going to move right into some questions. Blaine, our technical facilitator, has been so gracious to begin answering some of these questions. I'm trying to keep up. It's lots of great questions. A lot of great questions. We're going to get some Q&A out to you as well. So if we miss getting to any and you see the question there, you're like, I really wanted to know the answer to that one too. We'll get the Q&A out to this group. Let's get started. Okay. For our panelists, for the links, when you change it to a more descriptive link, as in your example, would you need to include somewhere that it is a clickable link so the screen reader left the user know that it is clickable? Well, my experience with testing with screen readers, screen readers announced that it is a link. You also want to make sure with that link, though, that it is visible, that it is a clickable link. You know, the standard for so long has been the blue color and the underline. You want to make sure that you have your proper contrast between the link and the background color of your page as well so that you have a visual and then you'll have an audio for screen readers. Maggie, that's a great response and we too are learning as a team and one of the participants today pointed out that even the link within our email wasn't descriptive enough to join today. So we'll be taking that away internally as an actualized group of fun as well. Okay. Okay, next question. Can you expand a bit more on what the low hanging fruit of tables is referenced to? I would say for tables, tables can can be complicated, but they can also be easy. And what I mean by that is when you do have a table is keep in mind that you need to have that header row and you need to mark that header row as such when you're building the table. And what that header row does for screen readers is if you you have a header and header row and columns. Hey, the screen reader, we read across and we'll read across and read across but for a screen reader, it needs to ID what's at the top of that column. It reads in the corresponding cell in the row. So, and making IDing your header row is really a matter of just selecting it and IDing it in your software as, as a header row, but you also want to ensure that you don't have a lot of merged cells. Those can be a complicated for screen readers. So you, the where it would get a little bit more intense for a table is structuring the table and the data in the table so that it reads correctly for screen reader, and that is a perfect example of why you need manual testing. Excellent. I love that we were able to tie that back to an example there. And I'll make note that if you'd like to have more and understand more a little more in depth and what we have time to answer with today. Just let us know through the Q&A that you'd like someone to reach out to you and expand upon their answer. And we'd be happy to do so. Another question for our panelists. We have links that open models, open PDFs or files and open web pages. All of these links function slightly different. Do we need to visually indicate how they are functioning? Yeah, so I think we would, that one we would recommend alt text, right? We recommend being as descriptive as you can. You know, if you were unable to see the images. So the intent there is to give users the visual reference, the same experience as users with vision. Okay, and it looks like we were able to answer some of the others via chat. I'm going to go ahead and share a couple of those for the folks who can't access the chat there so that you ensure to get answers. The question was, what are the best practices for making phone numbers and email addresses accessible on a website using the call us at 555-1234, for example, or email us at info at example.com format. Additionally, are there any specific HTML tags or attributes that should be used to make them more accessible to all users, including those who use screen readers or have cognitive disability? Great question. Blaine responded as a panelist here, you could consider leveraging area labels to provide additional context for those links. We do recommend linking phone numbers prefaced with PEL colon, so users on mobile can just tap the phone number. Yeah, we're glad that that's a whole other subject to aria labels level two or level three with accessibility but we'd be happy to talk with you more and get you some more information about that. And I really like that question because I've run across some situations where people didn't want their phone number or the office number on their website, they just wanted the email and my response to that was that not everybody speaks English and so you're, you know, using the email is great, but not everybody can can write, not everybody there's there's there's times where they need to talk on the phone. That phone is easier. So you really do need to have just just just a just for a simple accessibility you really need to have a phone number and an email because you need to give that person the chance to choose which communication method suits them the best. I really like that question. Excellent. There are a few more questions coming in. Okay, so we have a question. Here should link open new tabs. What if the link is to a PDF file. Ashley, do you have thoughts on that one. Yeah, so I think this is a largely debated topic. I think that the best practice would be to open a link in a new tab. If the opening in a current tab interrupts the process. For example, a registration or a transactional process. If it's programmed to open a link in a new tab you want to make sure that it includes an alert with a title tag, micro copy to ensure the screen reader announces that alert, and it's consistent throughout their experience so that all all links either do or do not open in a new tab. Okay, follow up question from the same participant here. What is the best way to deal with PDF files that are not accessible. What if they cannot be made accessible. So that's a great, a great question. I think another another largely debated one but using HTML. The source document cannot be remediated using you know all text and heading structure. The best way to ensure that you know the content is put out there and in semantic HTML instead. I'll just point out that the real quick sorry Casey, the lawsuit that we saw that I referenced earlier, also referenced PDFs that were scanned in and could not be read. If that helps answer the question. It's definitely something that you know you want to do it you want to make your site accessible for the right reason of making it accessible for all, but if you also want to do it so you're not getting sued. You would probably look at your PDFs and identify the ones first that have been scanned in and have been added and get those either replaced or removed. Great, we are right about it time we're going to try and take one or two more for folks who want to stick on, and then any of those that we didn't get to today. I will be asking our panelists to review those and provide responses so that we can share with folks who are able to attend today. So jumping off of Simon's question. When we open a link in a new tab or a new window, such as a model, should we verbally or visually warn the user that it will function that way. I would say yes, you definitely want to to alert your user that you're going to open a new tab on that on that link. We do that. And I've always done that. Like Ashley pointed out, this is this topic of new tab or no, no new tab. That conversation is going on been going on. I think I've been in in web development for over 25 years and I still don't think it's ever been definitively answered. But yes, there's definitely best practices and and giving your user a warning verbally or you know through through sound or written in your title tag in in your href tag to give them some side of heads up that that's going to happen. Okay, great. We're going to take one last question because we have a couple from Lucas here. Again, we'll be sure to get responses to all the questions in queue. What are some accessibility considerations unique to mobile experiences. I think tap spacing. Like the area around the click link. Any other considerations unique to mobile experiences from our panelists. Well, I think Ashley touched on this earlier today, it is, it's the issue of contrast. I mean, like, like you pointed out to Casey, you know, we've all been out in the sun trying to read a text message or trying to, to read directions on our Google map. And if the contrast is not set high enough. It's very, very difficult to do and absolutely agree with Ashley's response about the tap spacing, you know that that and that and the target size and things like that. So yeah, there's, there's those two I think are in in my thoughts are probably the two largest considerations for mobile. Okay, great. Alright, so we there is one question queue I'm not exactly sure because it was a looks like a bounce off of another question. I'm jewelry if you're still with us. My question with closer to what Simon is asking not about images at all. So if you want to expand upon that or we can get your response we'd be happy to do so. I think it was answered I don't speak for joy, but I think it was answered just with the having something open with the link. So hopefully we did answer that we're happy to talk more about that and you know, get more in depth after the webinar. I'm sorry, sorry, respond to let us know that that was answered. Okay, we're at the end of our time today. Do want to thank everyone who was able to attend and join us today. We hope that you heard some things from the panelists that you can take away immediately and put into action. That is always what I want to do after webinars get right to work right so hope you're able to do that. My question when you hang up, don't hesitate to reach out to Ashley or Maggie. I'm sure they'd be happy to speak with you, but we most certainly are going to be reaching out to folks and sharing the resources indicated within the webinar today. Panelists, thank you for your time today. We appreciate your insights. I'm continually learning from you as well. As is my marketing team. Thank you for helping us to always improve. And we're so lucky to have Ashley on on our team and she provides us a lot of guidance in that way as well. Thank you everyone for attending today. We look forward to connecting with you soon. Thank you, Casey. Thanks, Casey. Bye.