 Okay, all of that is set up as a sale. I had to sell my wife, would you like to dance? I had to sell my wife on, can I get your phone number? I had to sell my wife on, you should go out on a date with me. My kids are selling me every day. Daddy, can I watch a movie? Daddy, can I have some ice cream? Daddy, can we go to Disneyland? Everything is a sale. What's up everybody and welcome to the show today. We drop great content each and every week and we wanna make sure that you guys get notified and in order to do that you're gonna have to smash that subscribe button and hit that notification bell and if you've gotten a lot of value out of this make sure you give us a like and share our videos with your friends. So, Wes Schaefer of the Cells Whisperer podcast. How are you doing? Did I have that right Wes? We'll have this edited. Mostly right, it's the sales podcast but you know, I am the sales whipperer so it's all together man. Oh no, we gotta keep that in man cause it shows that you're human. Everybody sees you so perfect but every now and then once in a while you make a mistake, huh? Yeah, every once in a while, we gotta. Just by your first and only one of all of 2021. We keep a log and then at the end of the year AJ gets to hit me upside the head for everyone that we got. Yeah, a lot of hits coming this year. So how did you get started in sales, Wes? Oh man, I was a secret agent in the Air Force. They trained me to be this fancy sales person, man. It was like this top secret. It's more top secret than UFOs in Area 51. You probably didn't even know the Air Force had a sales division, did you? You didn't, you didn't. That's how secret it was. But yeah, I was in the Air Force, man and I got out in 97 because I wanted to be paid according to my production, you know? Not just time in grade, time in service. And, you know, I'd been married at that time. We're going on 26 years now so we were married right at two years. We had a baby. We had another one on the way that we didn't know about and I left. I resigned my commission and I was a captain in the Air Force and jumped into commission sales. You know, it's interesting. I think all of us go through a awakening in our lives, or at least some of us, and for everyone else, could come as well. But that idea of when you're working for somebody else, they're setting the wage of what you were worth and then you're like, wait a minute, other people make way more money than I do in an hour because they were setting what their work was worth. And that becomes, the minute you switch that frame, then you begin looking for different and new opportunities. Yeah, and it's, I think, being a W-2 employee, at least in sales, and it may be across the board, but I mean, my world's always been sales. I think we've been sold a little bit of a bill of goods, you know, unless you're an entrepreneur doing your own thing, you know, you ain't crap. You're not living your greatest and fullest potential and, you know, you're a wimp. I mean, it's like, you know, I've had over 500 interviews on the sales podcast and talked to a lot of good people with a lot of good stories and a lot of them, you know, went out on their own, but they did it after building a foundation, right? Paying off debt, saving up to make that launch. So, you know, that W-2 job can be a good thing. I think everything has a trade-off. I think what happens is we show up to work and we're not truly passionate about it. So we're not focused on it. So we're not focused on it. We're not producing all that we can, we don't produce all that we can. So we gotta stay later, blah, blah, blah, to catch up on what we should have been doing. We could have done if we truly focused for eight hours. And now we're like, I give my company all of my life, I'll get there early and I stay late and I miss dinner with the family. I gotta be out on my own to be fulfilled. Well, maybe you just need to focus. You know, maybe you just need to give them a full eight hours and get your butt home, you know? And then you have the energy and the time to do other things. And maybe that other thing is to launch your own thing. Okay, but maybe not. But, you know, like they say, multitasking is the art of doing multiple things poorly. All right? Absolutely. I think we could all benefit from a little more focus on what the hell we're working on. Well, that certainly brings up a point in sales that if you are gonna go out on your own, one of the things that you're gonna have to do is to sell your value, sell your abilities, bring awareness to what you're able to do. And number one, it's about creating content, right? Creating things for people to be able to see and put value upon. Then two, being able to promote the things that you're able to create and then third, to capitalize on that creativity of selling those product services or ideas. And with those three things, if picking up sales gives you an opportunity to not only sell yourself, but sell for anybody. It is a skill that is transferable into anywhere that you're gonna go. Well, the biggest misnomer I hear from people, oh, I'm not in sales. Like, we're all in sales all the time, okay? It's like poker. If you're sitting at the table, you don't know who the chump is, then it's you. Okay. Yeah. You know, you walk into a restaurant. Well, you gotta, you know, stand in the way, approach, you know, stand in line, approach the hostess, put your name on. Oh, he's 45 minutes. Please go stand in the corner. We'll call you when we're ready for you. You know, then you're seated and the menu is presented in a certain way. And oh, oh, happy hour prices are only available if you're in the bar, not over here. Oh, you wanna substitute a salad for the fries? It's an extra $1.99, they're selling you. Okay, all of that is set up as a sale. I had to sell my wife. Would you like to dance? I had to sell my wife on, can I get your phone number? I had to sell my wife on. You should go out on a date with me. My kids are selling me every day. Daddy, can I watch a movie? Daddy, can I have some ice cream? Daddy, can we go to Disneyland? Everything is a sale. Okay, a sale is, hey, read my headline. Follow me on Instagram, open my email, subscribe to my newsletter, everything is a sale. Hey, boss, I need an extra dollar per hour. Why? Sell me on that. Everything is a sale. Okay, and once you understand that, life gets a whole lot easier. Well, I think it's important to realize that sales is a skill set. It's not a single skill. You need to be able to assimilate a bunch of different skills to be successful at sales. And a lot of what you're talking about is what we see in pop culture and the way that sales is depicted, which often leads a bad taste in our mouth, thinking that it's manipulative. It's memorizing a script. It's forcing people, manipulating people to take action into something. When actually sales is a lot more subtle than that and it's a confluence of a lot of skills that you have to balance in any conversation, whether you're selling yourself, you're selling a product or a service. And we recommend everyone in our audience, when you're starting out in your career, you should take on a sales job. You should put yourself in that position because it will force you to learn skills that are applicable, as you were saying earlier, in every facet of your career, whether you wanna be an entrepreneur or an engineer or you wanna be an artist, you have to sell your ideas to get people on board to participate, to get ahead. And many of us haven't had that experience. And I think from your earlier point, if you are in a W-2 role right now, what skills are you acquiring along with that paycheck? If all you're doing at the end of the week is counting the dollars earned, and you can't wait to go hang out with your friends and spend those dollars earned and you're not taking into consideration the skills that are coming along with those earnings, well, you're gonna fall behind those who are getting ahead and realize that the set of skills of sales, as we're gonna break down here, is important in every single aspect of your life, dating, relationships, and business. Well, certainly, and you brought up your wife, we were talking about the restaurant and people tend, when they hear the idea of sales, they tend to think that it's a transaction where money is present. And that's not necessarily, that's just, well, it's one aspect of sales. Sometimes you're just trying to persuade people on ideas. You're persuading them to get involved in a group, in a project. So, I think when we talk about sales, there's a dollar sign that goes above it, but the actuality, it's root cause, it's root base is persuasion. Persuading you that what I have is worth this much money or persuading you that this is a great idea that you need to adopt or persuading you that I'm the person that you should be going to dinner with and that you, we should be having a transaction of time, of effort. I mean, there is, there's always gonna be a transaction. We drop great content each and every week and we wanna make sure that you guys get notified and in order to do that, you're gonna have to smash that subscribe button and hit that notification bell. And if you've gotten a lot of value out of this, make sure you give us a like and share our videos with your friends. When two people meet, right, in a sale setting, you know, maybe you come to Best Buy on the salesman and like, I see what you got, you got an older iPhone. Well, it's pretty safe bet that you probably wanna stick with an iPhone, but I'm still not gonna assume that. And I'm not gonna assume, cause maybe you're comparing me, maybe you're gonna compare it to the Apple store, maybe you're gonna buy something used on eBay. Cause maybe it's not for you. Maybe it's for your kid, right? I'm not gonna buy my 13 year old kid, a brand new, you know, 12 Max, Pro Max. She gets a U7, okay? So I'm not going to assume. So like, hey, you're welcome to the store. How can I help you? I'm not gonna assume anything. You know what, I'm not considering iPhones. Fantastic, it's just for you or for someone else. Yeah, actually it's for me. What do you have now? Oh, I've been sticking with an A, still got an A, okay? You wanna go with an 11? Kinda stayed kind of just one step below or do you wanna make a leapfrog all the way to the latest and greatest? I don't know, what's the benefits? So I'm asking questions, right? Always be concise, always be curious. Our new ABCs of selling. I'm curious, I'm courteous, always be courteous. Welcome, thank you for coming in. What brings you in today? So now we get to talking. Now I understand what's driving things. Oh, your business has changed, you've got a new job, you've launched a new podcast, you're doing more live streaming, more video. Oh, you need better resolution, you need more stability for the camera. Oh, okay, well, so now I'm gonna talk about stability and resolution and upload speeds and all that good stuff. You're like, oh yeah, I need that thing. Right, so am I persuasive? Yeah, am I manipulative? No, I'm just asking you the question, how are you going to use this thing? You know, it's like, hey, you know, it's for my daughter, she's turning 15. Well, she's been a good kid, she's COVID, she made good grades, despite all that, I just wanted to kind of give her a little thank you, a little appreciation, oh, fantastic, you know. The 11 pro is just about as good, especially for a teenager, and you're gonna save 45%. Oh hell, okay, deal. Oh, and by the way, if you trade one in, you know, you can get another one as well, and get 50% off of that, what, what? So now I'm selling two phones, now it's easy to sell the cases, the extra warranty, blah, blah, blah. So I downsold you to upsell you, and everybody wins, is that persuasive? Okay, whatever word you wanna use, was it helpful? Yes. Absolutely. You know, who decides that, you as the customer decide. I've always said that the difference between influence, persuasion, and manipulation is going to be the intent behind it, and everyone needs to get comfortable with asking what the idea of this intent is, or what your intent is, but also understanding that, but not assuming what other people's intent is, just having an understanding of what yours is, because on face value, a lot of those tactics are going to look the same, but it does come down to the intent of it. Would somebody who knows they can help somebody be a bit manipulative to sell something that they know is a solution, their problem? I mean, how many times have your parents manipulated you to get you to do the right thing to eat your vegetables, to do the thing, to study? You know, we've learned it from the best, and they wanted the best for us, and then on a longer scale, they know that those lessons, though there might have been some manipulation behind it, you're going to be a better person for that, and so at the end of the day, we need to take responsibility for ourselves, for what we want, how we're going about it, and I think the minute you get into these moral quandaries, rather than asking the questions and getting the answers, I think people get a little bit nervous of what they might find, so they just back out and they say, well, sells isn't for me because I'm not that kind of guy. What do you mean you're not that kind of guy? You don't like helping people, you don't like solving their problems? That's all it is, right? And you know, you're talking about your parents, your parents know they have the long-term vision, right? They know where they want to shape you and mold you as a human being for life, right? And as salespeople, it's like, well, I got to maximize my earnings, I got to push them to get the 12 pro max and the case and the extended warranty. It's like, okay, yes, you do need to maximize earnings for the company, for yourself, for your family, okay? But maximize earnings over what timeframe, over that 30 minutes interaction or over your three or 10 or 30 year career with the company, okay? Because by me asking questions and maybe even downselling you a little bit and leaving a little meat on the bone, as soon as you walk out of the store, you take a selfie, you go live. Man, I'm leaving best buy. I just got West Shaffer, he was the man, he didn't push me, he helped me, he showed me all the deals, the bargains, he saved me, I was willing to pay $2,000, I walked out of there for $1,800, he saved me $200, come down the best buy, ask for West, tell him Johnny sent you, next thing I know, I'm making all these sales, because they're super easy because I left a little meat on the bone, right? I didn't go for that last drop, but I've created my own little acronym, right? ABCDE, sticking with the ABCs, right? But everybody knows pipelines and funnels and oh, I just pack enough in the top, something's gonna come out the bottom, throw enough crap against the wall, something's bound to stick. And funnels and pipelines are fine as a part of understanding your systems and your timing and your stages, so that's all, they're decent as a component. The problem is, they're one direction, right? The pipeline shoving it in from the left, it spits out the right. A funnel, a funnel in the top comes out the bottom. When I made the ABCDE, I put it in a circle, like around a clock and you're just going clockwise and you're going from attracting people to you, you attract them with the podcast, you attract them with maybe it's an ad, right? Driving them to a free reporter, opting for a webinar. Okay, now you bond with them, multimedia, multi-step. Get their email, get their cell phone, get their address, get their Twitter, their Instagram, their Facebook, everything else. Connect with them, meet them where they are. You try to call me, good luck with that. You shoot me a message on LinkedIn, I'll answer it. Okay, so it's just our preference, but you're not gonna reach my mother-in-law on LinkedIn, you better call her, she'll answer her phone. You better mail her a letter, right? She'll read a letter. So multimedia, multi-step. And then, so the third point is the cash, the clothes, the client, okay? So five steps, A, B, C, D, E. Professional salespeople understand that the cash is only the midway point of the relationship, okay? You come into my store and I sell you that phone, most people think that's the end game. I gotta get as much money from Johnny as I can because I'm never gonna see him again. All buyers are liars. If they're, how do you know if they're lying? Their lips are moving. I'm just gonna take as much money as I can from this guy and that's it. But in today's world, right? Social media and reviews, you know? You're gonna light me up. Yeah, you'll walk out of there. Yeah, I got my phone. You're like, one star review. Wes was the pushiest guy. I would never do business with him ever again. You know what? I may even just return this stuff even though it's a hassle. I'm gonna pay more across the street because he just treated me wrong. So professional salespeople understand that the cash, it's the equivalent of a wedding, right? When we had our wedding ceremony, September 30th, 1995, was the relationship over? Was that the goal? Just to say I do? Or is that really when the relationship began, right? Because all the way up until I do, we could unwind things, right? And obviously you can unwind it afterward. It's just a lot more painful and a lot more expensive. So at the moment we say I do, that's really when the relationship begins. So professional salespeople, again, going through the cycle, they understand it. Now we're moving up towards the seven or eight o'clock position. Now we delight, right? We deliver that wow experience. So Johnny buys that phone from me and I just, when nobody's looking, or it's like, hey, you know what? There's a sale on these cases. And if I wouldn't get one, you know, it's a free case, you just gotta mail it in here. And I'll mail it in for you. I'll rip the coupon off and mail it in for you. What, what? I'll give you a free case. Hey, here's the free charger. It was an open box, you know, it's just taken. Let me, I'm gonna include it with you. What, what? So now you're singing my praises because I delight, I delivered a wow experience. Now I've endeared myself to you. Now we're back up to the 12 o'clock. You go out, you make that video. I just left the store, Wes is the best, what are you doing? You're attracting people for me. Right, so we're back to the attraction phase. And now it gets simpler and faster and easier. Now they come walking in. Hey, can I help you? Are you Wes? No, I'm not Wes. I'm looking for Wes, because Johnny said you're the man. Next thing I know, I've got a line out the door. Everybody else, they're gonna go outside and smoke cigarettes and say, this job really sucks. I'm like, well, maybe you suck, you know, but I digress. That's an important point in all of this, that the goal is not just to get a single purchase. You're gonna need a new phone. You're gonna need a new car. You're gonna need another program. You might need some more training. There's always opportunity for more if you take a relationship approach to sales. Where you are actually genuinely helping this person. You're looking out for their best interests, not your own bottom line's best interests. And when you do that, you build an immense amount of trust, which then leads to referrals, leads to repeat business, leads to people singing your praises, word of mouth. And those are the intangibles that, and I wanted to ask you this, you know, what has shifted in this marketplace, those are the intangibles that lead to the sales that so many are missing out on. Because as you said, people are more informed than ever. Word of mouth is a channel they look at, reviews, Yelp ratings, all of those things online to kick the tires to see what you're about and do you have the checkbox next to the trust that I need to do that transaction with you? But if we take a short-sighted approach of just gonna follow the script, I'm gonna pound you until I get you into submission and I get that last dollar out of you. Wham, bam, see you later. Then all of a sudden, the next month, you're missing your quota and you're dragging and you're wondering, man, why am I not hitting these things any longer? Because you didn't take the long enough perspective that our parents take when thinking about us. It's not about solving those short-term pains. It's actually about taking so good of care of that customer that they can't wait to do business with you again and share it with all of their friends and family to do business with you.