 Welcome back. I hope you had a great lunch. We're going to start with our next panel, the Student Success Initiatives, Library Cards for Youth. The Student Success Initiative encourages partnerships between libraries and local school districts to give students public library cards. Public libraries have a variety of resources to help K through 12 students succeed in school and beyond, including books, online databases, tutoring programs, and internet access. Libraries and schools determine the best model for student success in their community, which may include a full service library card, sharing of student IDs and data between schools and libraries, or an eResources card. Libraries who have these partnerships with local schools will discuss what they have learned about building and maintaining relationships with the school district and the logistics of adding these student cards. Today's panel will be moderated by Tari Ryan, Youth and Outreach Manager with the Mountain View Public Library. She will be joined by Nathan Brumley, Assistant Director of the Livermore Public Library, Mary Corpora, Librarian of the Pleasanton Public Library, and Lauren Hancock, Expanded Learning Manager of the San Jose Public Library. Good afternoon, everybody. I'm going to give the panel a moment to speak, but I just want to talk about the fact that, as libraries, we really have these three things that we do, right? Collections, programs, and services. But I want to say that we have an opportunity now to start talking about our fourth, which is partnerships. There's that fourth component. It's becoming more and more a reality, both from the state level, which we've been given opportunities for those, such as the park pass and things. And then at local levels and partnerships are between individuals, but also organizations and public schools. I think libraries and public schools, we've always seen ourselves as having the same goals, but oftentimes not very easily coming together for the same objectives or having ability with the taxpayer money to share resources in a way that are more vital for communities. So I think the Student Connect card really offers an opportunity to look at this as a model for how library partnerships and initiatives can expand and grow. So I'm Tari Ryan. I'm the library manager for youth and outreach at the Mountain View Public Library. And our Student Connect card is we have three schools. It's actually an e-card. And our schools require a memorandum of understanding. They're for five years. And we do allow students to also have a physical card. But our e-card does not allow checkouts for physical materials. Hey, everybody. My name is Nathan Brumley. As mentioned, I'm with the Livermore Public Library. So our Student Success Initiative took the form of our Student One card. You'll probably hear all of us call our cards like different names up here. But we have an MOU with our school district. We have one school district in Livermore. And they have about 13, 12 schools. And currently, our card serves middle through high schools. We've just been able to expand our card into elementary schools. We had a few challenges there, which we'll probably be talking about today. It is a full service card. And parents opt out of the program at registration at the beginning of the year. All of the information from the student's name, address, phone number, and parents' email address is shared with us via the school district. That gets automatically loaded into our database when it's shared with us. We do that multiple times throughout the year to catch any new students joining. And then throughout the year, we kind of low-key dedupe go through and remove those who already have cards with us. And that's how it's been working. Hi, I'm Mary Capora. I'm from the Pleasanton Library right next door to Livermore. And pretty much everything he just said, but actually almost everything that he said. Our school district also participates in the program through an MOU with our one school district. It is a full service card with the exception of Link Plus materials. The card serves high school, middle school. And then just this year, we added elementary, but also had some issues. So I would say half of elementary. It is also an opt-out program. One difference is people participate one time a year just during registration. We're not getting records from the school district at any other time. So if someone opted out at the beginning, they have to wait until the next year before they can be back into the program. Hi, everybody. I'm Lauren from San Jose Public Library. Ours is a little bit more complex. In the city of San Jose, we have 19 public school districts. We have almost 60 local education agencies, like charters. We have private schools. We have 20 partnerships across that, which we do MOUs with. Am I echoing? I'll set that. I'm going to close. I'm OK. Closer. OK. We serve almost 200 schools. Almost 100,000 cards are issued every year. Each district does things differently with us. So we partner with them. Some transfer data every month. Some every quarter. Luckily, our access team is wonderful and accommodating. And so we just have an opportunity to partner with each school or each district differently. So Nathan, starting with you, has your library been able to measure the impact of student cards? This is a super good question. And when we were talking about measuring, we might be talking about a few different things. I have measured how many students have cards. That's an easy one to measure. But as far as like impacts go, that's a little more difficult. So we've been doing this program since about 2019, I want to say, maybe 2018. And I'm not sure that we have good data from the school district that students with these cards now are doing better in school. We would love to be able to point to that and say, yes, that's happening. So it's something we're working on. It's another thing, too, that we've talked to the school district also is part of our MOU was talking about keeping track of students who participate in our summer reading program and talking about data on how those students perform versus those who don't. So we've talked a little bit about that. We're trying to make that work. I guess the answer is no, not yet. Not in any way that we can report at least out to the community and to all of you. But the numbers, if we look at circulation, if we look at how many students now have cards in the community, we can say, yes, that's happening and that's good. One thing that we started to do is part of the records that we receive, we get this code assigned to each student depending on which school they attend. And so we can actually, that goes into the student's record in our system under a custom field. And so if I know the code, I can kind of tell which school that student goes to. And so through that, we're able to see which schools are using our library the most, circulation numbers based on where they are in the city and that kind of thing. So from that standpoint, it's been interesting to look at that data and try to target and maybe reach out more to those schools. Agree. Oh, I thought they just cut me. I don't have anything controversial to say. Same thing, we don't really track the program other than participation. So we know in September, our registration statistics that are generally somewhere around anywhere between 200 to 400, all of a sudden jumps to 7,000 something in September. But beyond that, we haven't really done any other tracking. We're not looking to see our databases, how often are those, maybe you would want to know your brain fuse. How often is that being used with a student ID? But we don't track any of that. We probably should. In San Jose, we look at cards issued. We look at cards used. Since there are a plethora of districts, we can see who's using the library more often. We do a little tracking through our teacher and educator newsletter that goes out every month. So who's opening it? Where are they clicking through constant contact? Then we also look at class visits and virtual class visits. So we had one school district that was really engaged in a pandemic during the pandemic. I will say our library card program was an unintended pandemic program. It launched in March of 2020. And we had no idea that we were going to be issuing digital cards through a pandemic and that we would be designing this entire program and bringing on so many schools with it. But yeah, so we do track a little bit more of that. And then we work with the districts to do outreach and partnerships. And so we're tracking how many times we go to the schools, how many times the schools come to us. While it's not card usage, it is a different level of engagement around student library cards. Miss out for all the elementary, middle, and high school? It's for a lot of them. We have two. We have three districts that serve high school students, and two of them have cards. And so we're still working out the MOU portion of the high school district. Can you speak for Mountain View? We have limited ability to track impact. We'd like to be able to do that. A lot of it, it's been a compromise. One of the goals we've had is having a student ID number match the library card numbers so that the students know and it's ease of use for them. But that's limited our ability to track. I wish we did have better numbers, but I think we're alongside Pleasant and Livermore with that ability at this juncture. So the next question for the panel, has there been any negative or positive outcomes with implementing or having the card? I'm thinking here, budget impacts, general optics around the program, working with vendors, coming agreement with the school districts. This is a broad question for the panel. I can start, I guess, sure. I'm next in line, I'll do that. Yeah, we'll go down the line. So challenges, I think, for us have mostly been just getting those elementary schoolers in on the program. That was one of the primary reasons really wanted to get into this and the beginning is to reach the younger ones too and make sure that they're getting cards. The challenge there was just the way the school district issues student IDs. So the way our program works is they use their actual student ID number and their student IDs and those student IDs have barcodes and so essentially, the way we've set it up, those can serve just as public library cards with us. But for a lot of the elementary schools, they don't send their students home with their IDs. They'll stay at school. And so an issue there for them was the cost. So they could have printed another student ID, but that would have been a pretty big cost on the school district. Thankfully to them, they've been such a great partner. They weren't asking us to pay anything for it. So what we eventually got to, and this was this year, is they'd settle for essentially student books in the classroom, which was a lot less for them to print with barcodes and everything and pictures. And so then they'd be sending home those student IDs with their students that they can then start using in the libraries. And once that was figured out, that's happened this year. And so that's when the elementary schoolers were added. So when we, so just this year, well, we had been trying to add elementary for a couple of years. This year, we were able to add them. We got the permission to add them. Our elementary school students also do not, they're not issued physical cards, only middle school and high school get those cards. But we're way more freewheeling than I guess Livermore. We just decided it's okay that they don't have actual physical cards and they can just tell us their student ID number. Most of the kids were relying on the idea that most of the kids know their ID number. That's how they get their lunch. They have to know that number from kindergarten up. So I would say for us, the biggest challenge for us is working with the school district to finally get all the students added just the communication sometimes. We're not all in the same building. I don't know all the people at the school district. People move around at the school district. We only do this once a year. So every year you're going maybe to a new set of people to say, hey, we're gonna do this again. Sometimes I kind of wonder, do they even remember that we're doing this? It's time to send me all this data. So getting it, even though we have an MOU that states it's supposed to be done a very specific way. When you're working with people, it doesn't always work out that way. So for instance, this year, adding on the elementary school students, in our registration process, there is a page that is full of all of these permissions, like 30, 40 permission statements. As you go down, there's all these checkbox. Almost everything is already checked. So a parent would have to go and uncheck the box. This year, because elementary was new and I was working with new people again, the elementary school box was not checked. So parents would have to go and opt into it, even though our MOU says it should be an opt out. So that was something, registration just happens at the beginning of the year and that's it. So now I have to wait until next year to make sure again, hey, remember this is supposed to be an opt out program. But other than that, there's, I don't think there's a lot of negatives to kids, more people having access to the library. Yeah, there are some challenges to the program. I will, the budget is definitely one of them. I remembered to put the cards in our pocket. So these are just like business cards that are issued to all the students, but it's expensive. And so the budget conversation has come up around marketing materials and lost cards. So they, it's attached to their student ID number also with the majority of the districts. And so there's a space where they can write in their student ID and just reminds them of how to use their card. I think one other challenge is the staff turnover is at districts and at the library, in one district, I've worked, the program's only been around for as long as the pandemic. And I've worked with four different people. And so it's constantly having to go back and build that relationship and remind them who I am and why this is important and then pull my boss in and pull their boss in. And so I think that that's definitely an issue to consider is that, that it's an ongoing relationship and conversation with the district that data transfer happens once a month or every quarter. But then you want them to use the card. So now you have it and now what? So that's the, that can be a good challenge to have. So I can speak to budgetary impacts in Mountain View. We saw an increase in the hoopla and overdrive of the Libby. And we did see an increase in usage of popular titles. And we've had to budget more money to what we had originally thought for eBooks and audiobooks, especially starting the pandemic. I think it was hard for us to understand if it's anecdotal, but we do think it is because of our student credit card. So we're, we wish we had more data around that, but that has been a budgetary impact in terms of database. Has anyone else had seen that? Or? You've seen an increase in SORA, especially since some of our school districts use it. So you've seen that, I think. Yeah. I don't know. And it's funny that we're talking about this because I always think of it as like, there's no budgetary impact, right? There's no, we're not issuing cards like that. I didn't think of it in that terms of, oh yeah, our database usage might be up, but we're not tracking it. So I don't know. I would also just add that I think a lot of our databases that we're paying attention to aren't a cost per circ model. So for us, it's just a matter of, like yay, our numbers are going up. This is all good, a good impact rather than, yeah, something to be worried about. So with that, what recommendations would you make to libraries considering implementing a student card program? I'll go first again. All right, so I would say that I have a bunch of advice, I guess. But I guess I would say you don't need to start with everything. Like it doesn't even have to be a whole school. The way we started our program was we did all the freshmen at the high schools in our city. And then we did the whole high school. And then we did all the middle school the following year. And so I guess continuing that trend, we continued to grow it into elementary school. From here, I would love to add all the staff. I would love to add of the independent schools in the city. So it's just kind of like, pick how far you wanna go when you're starting out and then know that you can expand that as you go on and learn and all that good stuff. Another thing I would say too, is that this probably isn't your first conversation with your school district, hopefully. So I kind of liken it to like, you wouldn't go up to a stranger and ask for their child's contact information, right? So it's like, that's kind of how some of them might feel about this too. So there's a lot of like relationship building that goes on into starting a program with your school district like this. Yeah, the R word. So probably building that, asking your school district, like setting up meetings with key stakeholders there and just talking about things like, so some of the things that I started doing when I was in charge of youth services with our library was setting up meetings with our superintendent and asking what challenges they're facing, but also bringing some ideas to them. So like one of the things that came out was, I found out that they needed more support with Spanish chapter books. And so ours libraries started collecting more Spanish chapter books to support like bilingual programs that they were offering. So it's like proving to them, hey, we're also here to give something back to you. We're not just asking you to take something from us. Another thing might be to like, see if your school district has a community engagement department. And so those are like some of your best partners. I found that less turnover happens in that group than some of the other like actual school sites. So making connections with the school district that way has been very, very helpful. And then also seeing if your school districts have like meetings where district staff meet with parents and teachers association volunteers and other like principals. Our school district has a great meeting that happens monthly. It's got all the PTA presidents in there. It's got key people from the school district. And I just invited myself to it and just haven't left. And now they kind of like set out a name card for me and everything at each one. So just yeah, for me it's just super important to build that relationship and build those partnerships. And when they ask for something even if you don't really wanna do it, you just try to accommodate that because you know they'll do the same for you. So that's my advice there. Yeah, it wasn't part of the implementation of our plan. So I can't really speak to how it was built from the beginning, but what I would say from taking it over, make it as easy as possible for kids to join or for the parents to put their kids in the program. Originally our MOU was written, there was no discussion of whether it would be this opt in or opt out. We found that if parents had to physically go and tick the little box, again, because if you could see this page of permissions, it's really long and as a parent, I'm not reading all that stuff. Like if it's not checked, then I probably don't want it. So depending on how your school district chooses to implement this, that would be my big piece of advice is to try and get that opt out written into your MOU so that the little box is ticked if that's how your school does the program through the registration. I agree with everything that they all have said about it and to just get started, right? Like to get to 1,000, you have to get to one first and however that looks for you, if it's having a conversation or having a director to superintendent conversation or school to branch, but it starts the snowball and to build the momentum around it and making it easy. I find because I manage the MOU and the contracts and administration process, I find that to be very daunting for a lot of people so they don't need to know about that. I'll just let you know when the MOU is done, right? Because the fun part happens when you get to use your card and you get to do the school outreach and you get to do all of that and that's what librarians are excited about and teachers are excited about and so pulling back those hard processes or making it easier for your system to work together I think is the ultimate goal and so just getting started. I'll also add that we have digital cards for 18 of the 20 partnerships that we have attached to their student IDs is so much easier for people to know and remember. If that's a possibility and it takes a little bit more work on the front end, it's totally worth it. I still remember my student ID number, it's 709902. Like it will help students, it'll help families. I think that that's an important piece that helps the school community also begin to have better conversations with them about libraries. I would add that it takes a while to come to an MOU sometimes. We, in our case, we had a private school we're working with. We didn't come to an agreement the first year, but we stuck with it and this year we were able to find a way and a path to create an MOU for the private school. So sometimes the MOU can fail but it's still worth going back to reconsider how you can make that partnership happen and now it's a worthwhile program but it can take a while, so. The partnership has fantastic drafts and templates and MOUs that we leveraged heavily at the beginning of our program. It was incredibly helpful. So the next question is, you've partnered with the schools. Can you provide any examples of some stories or anecdotes or ideas for programs or initiatives within the schools around the student card? Absolutely. We had a fantastic librarian right at the beginning of the program that did a Q&A with one of our principals and they posted it on, Rebecca, and they posted it on YouTube and we shared it widely about, because once the kids have cards, now the technical assistance comes in and not everybody knows about libraries and that they're free and what happens at a library and often people are scared to come in and use the card and take away a material and the Q&A was a great way to do that. So that was one really successful example during the pandemic that happened and we're looking now over the next year or two, one of our goals and objectives is to get students back in the library and help them with the technical assistance of the cards. We've got them the cards, we have the districts, everybody's together on that and now we want them to know how to use the card and that's our goal and so for school engagement, it's calling the schools, it's taking the meetings with the districts all the time because you might not want to sit on a Zoom call all day with teachers but that's what's really important and so getting kids back in the library, class visits, having librarians and assistants and everybody call the schools, even if it's the front desk and saying, can we come to your school? We'll bring our bag of goodies and providing technical assistance for the card so I think it's just that constant help that we've been doing but anyway and I say yes to most of it, if a librarian comes to me and says I want to do this, it's like yep, how can we do that? Like how can we engage with our students and our families? Let's prototype it or let's start small, do one event and see if it works here, could it work somewhere else? So I think giving everything a try has been a successful engagement strategy with schools. We haven't really had, the school district doesn't do a whole lot of promoting this program that I'm aware of. We have, there's an activities guide so our library is part of our recreation department as well so in our library and recreation activities guide that comes out every quarter, I always make sure that the quarter just before school registration since that's the only time they have to opt into the program, that there's some advertisement in there so that parents understand if they are looking at those million permission statements, this is what it's about. It's not necessarily as clear in the registration permission page what it is, it's just saying you're giving permission for all this information to go to the library. Well, why? Well, because this is great, they're gonna be able to use, if they forget their library card, it doesn't matter if they have their school ID, if they've come from school straight to the library and their parent keeps their card with them, doesn't matter, you have your school ID, you can access everything you need that way. So that's been mostly how we've been trying to engage. Yeah, I think there's more we could probably be doing but for now, especially, I mean, you all know this, the pandemic messed up everything but visiting classrooms, we did create a bunch of flyers for promoting the program and distributing that to the different media centers on campuses, we talked to teachers and offered to come into classes. One of the neat things that we started that has now not continued but we'd like to start continuing it again was we went to like freshmen's kind of like, you're welcome to high school initiation. They've got a class at our school district, I'm forgetting the name of it obviously. Yes, it is an orientation but they call it something special. So anyway, that, they invited us to that. And so we did and we talked about the library card and all that good stuff. So that's something hopefully we'll be able to bring back. One of the things I mentioned earlier, meeting with the superintendent or your principals is you start to hear about things that their community or parents are asking from school districts that they feel like is kind of like outside their zone or they don't have the bandwidth to take that on. One of those for us was most recently, classes on how to fill out the FAFSA. And so because of that, we're hearing what they need. And so we kind of look at what we can do and partner with them to both put that on and for them to then send parents to us. So we're working on putting that together. Otherwise it's just continuing to offer site visits. We go to their carnivals when we can and talk up the card there. And sometimes we'll offer special like science classes or activities after school. But it'll depend on what we're able to actually provide and with staffing and all that, yeah. A lot of the students in our school districts go to Boys and Girls Club or YMCA. And so we've reached out to them also because they're doing their homework there after school, they're having tutors and things like that. And so we've provided training and resources to those organizations so that when the students with library cards are at their locations, they can use our resources. We did that with our parks and rec department. A lot of students during the pandemic were at our community centers going to school. And so we would help the park staff learn how to use our databases and our resources also because schools are one pathway, but knowing that there are 100,000 students in San Jose that have library cards, they're also out in the world doing other things. They're only in school 20% of their time. And so where can we get the other adults to know that they have cards? So outreach with Boys and Girls Club and YMCA has been one pathway and workaround to let them know that they have the cards. For Mountain View, we had a lot of success reaching out to the programs that offer, that are for English language learners and for students who are entering college for the first time, their parents hadn't gone to college. I can't remember the name of the program, but I think it's, yeah. Yeah, so I can't remember the name of the program, but I know all high schools have this and we were able to one-on-one work with them and we kind of offered an embedded librarianship program throughout the school year. It was a strong partnership. They reached out to us. We provided information beyond just the databases to extra resume support and reading lists. So that was very successful for us, but that was a very microcosm of what we think we could have been doing. I think our difficulty in Mountain View and probably for every library is also staffing. We can have a lot of brilliant, great ideas, but we've also found that just a one-time experience isn't as impactful as continuing and having those relationships with the teachers and with other faculty members so that we can continually be present. So that's been something that's been a challenge for us. Are there any barriers in your opinions that may exist to further into the program at a state or national level perspectives on that? I was thinking more along the lines of the only barrier that I could see to this, because again, I can't see any negatives to more people having more access to the library, but there is this data sharing component of this and some people are just nervous about that in general. And now as we've seen more recently, there is this prejudice against libraries. So I could see in some places, no, I would never share my child's data with the library, which is unfortunate, but that would be one of the few barriers that I would see. I think that's been a big conversation is sharing data privacy, how we share data, secured files with passwords. San Jose went an extra step to join the California Student Privacy Alliance. So we're a registered vendor in the state, just calling out that we value student privacy. But yeah, I think that that is just a barrier of the program is when you're sharing large amounts of data and personal identifiable information. But don't let that stop you. That's right, it's all about them. And yeah, you raise excellent points about why, especially right now, there might be some pushback, but I think the biggest challenge here is just people not knowing about it and figuring out how to get the word out about like, hey, every kid in Livermore or every kid in our state has a library card. I mean, one, getting the word out about that, and then two, we just come back to why it's so important and why it's important what we do and offer and our amazing services. So I think at that point, just becomes a marketing problem for us to figure out. Just one last question and then we'll take some questions. Are there any takeaways we can learn about whose student cards work and their broader applications? For one, I'm thinking here, Brooklyn Public Library just opened the Books Unbanned Program. I don't know if people are aware of that, but that's pretty spectacular for all high school students in the nation, basically. So that's something, our community residents automatically receiving cards when they become part of a community. I mean, just other civic or educational or institutional partnerships where this could grow. Any comments on that before? I mean, wouldn't it be great if it was issued at birth? I mean, right there in the hospital, right? Yeah. But I mean, specifically, why not organizations we're already always partnering with? Or everybody who comes and works for your cities or counties? I mean, that to me seems like an easy way to expand it right there. And then like I said earlier, everybody in the school district, we have a separate parks department, everybody in the parks district. These are our regular partners. And then like, I don't know, reaching out to businesses. We've got large labs in our city. There's large businesses like the industrial companies. It could be a perk of moving or working in your city. There's a lot of places that this could go. A place that already uses a card in some way. So you were talking about like the local businesses, any large company, if there was some way to share data with them, right? And then their badge becomes their library card. I think Denver does something like that where you have your library card, your parks pass and your transit all on one. I've always wanted to do that. That seems really complex. And then, but don't let that stop you. And then I think about working with teachers and the curriculum and knowing ahead of time what they're teaching. And if there's a way that I've never been able to do this. So if you know how, let me know, get in front of the collections of like, let's make this an everyday collection copy so that the whole school could read a book at the same time. One of our school districts came to us and was like, let's do a movie night on a book and have everyone read the book. And then we'll have them come to the school and we'll do a movie night based on the book. And that would be great. But like, how do I get a copy of whatever that popular book is? Like the, I don't know, I'm not gonna try to butcher the name of the popular book that the kids are reading, but that, so I think that there's like ways to build on those partnerships, whether it's like a go card in the city or like your gym pass, but then also just like making our books more available for everybody to have a copy of the book during the curriculum, during the month that they're supposed to be reading that book and not call the wild. Like a real good book. Like, not the call the wild is a bad book. I don't want to say that. It's a great book, but I think it's always available, but I think that maybe seventh graders are reading something different now. And that there's a way for our libraries and our collections to reflect local curriculum. I know that's a real big challenge. So call the wild back. Hi. I'm sorry. Sorry. You're mad at you. So any questions from the audience? Chris, navigate. Over. Hi. I come from the data side of things. So when you're setting these things up, what are the kids, the students using for passwords? For example, in my school, the school districts with Sonoma County, we have 42 districts varying size. We have a 50 or 60,000. Their student number is their email address. And we have used the birth year up till now as the password for a pin, right? Except for an elementary school kid who I kind of want to hire in the future, figure that out. And he was able to go into other people's accounts and make notes of their addresses, which has caused some serious privacy related issues amongst parents in the address or district. And so we're looking at different ways to create passwords that the students will remember, which again was why we went with birth year first. So I'm wondering what you all have done with that. Sure. I'll start. We use student IDs as their barcode number. And then the password, we actually leave blank in our system. And so that actually prompts them to create a pin or password when they first log in. A pin number, so it's four digits. Originally when we started, just like Livermore did with just the freshmen, it was their graduation year. And then every year since, so then we continued on with that when the next year, when it was high school, now that we have more grade levels, it's usually just the end of the school year. So this year the pin would be 2023, but we do encourage in the flyer that we have about this, you should change your pin, but that's what we use. Would you birthday? Like June 1st would be 0601. And then we do encourage them to change it. How many of them change it? Four digits of the student ID number. I'm sorry, is it on? Questions over here? Let's switch to next. Sorry, hi. Hi, oh, sorry. I was a district librarian for a while and I just had a question for how robust the staffing is for your public schools with school librarians. We have quite like every school here in San Francisco has one, but I know that the ratio statewide is not so great. So I was just sort of curious about surrounding cities and do you work those partnerships to roll those cards out? Back to person. A lot of our schools in San Jose have library media specialists about we're actually doing more of a landscape analysis of which schools and which districts have what now post pandemic, but we do try our best to work with them, but we do see that it's dwindling the schools having a librarian. Some districts have made a choice not to have them and others have no librarians, but the media specialists. Yeah, that's the same with Pleasanton. There's one at least library media specialist for each site. I don't actually work with any of the district librarian staff, it has to do with the head of that particular curriculum. So we have the head of elementary curriculum, middle school, high school. So you work with them for permission in the program and then everything else is with their IT department. So thankfully at Livermore, we do have media specialists at all of the sites too. And we actually attend their regular meetings we send a representative from our library too. And so we kind of partner and they're always super great about helping us promote library services and stuff like that that we offer. That concludes our time. Can we do one more at lightning speed? If I heard you guys correctly, you said that parents will opt out of the library to work our program at the beginning of the school year. Do you have any examples of why? So they have the opportunity to do that, but we haven't had any parents do that in our system. Age appropriateness and on occasion also sharing the student data. How many parents have opted out? And I don't know why. In our case, there was like I said, sort of like a glitch where the box wasn't ticked like it was supposed to. So, but otherwise I don't have any data on why parents are not participating. Reasons are is trust. We have some families who still don't understand the library and it's a government. And so there's a somewhat of a lack of trust there. All right, thank you so much to our panelists.