 All right, welcome to another episode of The Grail. We have a fantastic guest today. Introduce yourself, my man. Hey, my name is Tay Herrera, aka Herrera. I am a hand engraver for the last 43 years of metal, mainly motorcycles, and everything in between. And it's been, again, 43 years about this time, too, because right before I started high school, this turn 17, I was introduced to an engraver, and that's where it all started. His name was Angel B. Was that in, like, a metal shop in high school? Because I took metal shop, or where? No, this was, my father was a custom gun maker. We made presentation cases for everybody. All the movie star celebrities, President Reagan, and he wanted to deliver a case he made for Sylvester Stallone that was commissioned by Angel B., the engraver, out in Chatsworth. He's probably 80-something now. Anyway, I didn't want to go long story short, I did. And when I saw them using a hammer and chisel to inlay, what was it? I think it was eight gold ducks into a pretty shotgun. I was like, OK, time to go. I didn't want to leave. I was like, no, no, no, no, what is this? Because I was an artist, and I had really no direction to go at that time. And we did. We stayed a little bit, and I asked him, can I come back and just watch? And he said, and his broken French shirt at any time. So I did that, and that was my first introduction to hand engraving. That is pretty much. And he was, go ahead. That was pretty much my introduction to engraving, too, were those really ornate old school guns, like shotguns, 12 gauge, and all of that. That's really where I first came to be at. Yeah, and that's what he did. He worked in his Belgian engraver for Browning. And those guys were fast. I mean, that's how they made their money. And so, like I said, I watched him for whenever I could. And he'd give me tips and a really good guy and learned a lot from the guy. And I got to get back to the guy because we actually became friends, but it's been a long time. All because my father was good friends with him. Now, once you start doing some engraving, it's a lot like tattooing. You can't just start on somebody's gun. You got to practice on something and figure out how to do it. I mean, there's so much detail in learning to be an engraver. I mean, it's insane. It is very insane. Just like a tattoo artist, the art is always first. And I'm always the one that says, OK, this is at the end. OK, this is what we're going to do, and it's doing the right thing. The art comes first. And the different kinds of metals, the hardness, the balance of the art onto the project, it keeps going. And I'm not saying it's easy for me. I'll just say it's easier. Certain items I can look at, and that's going to take this long. Bites? No. That's a whole different. I still haven't got that. I'm looking at a piece. Now, OK, it was going to take this long. It's always way longer. Because I always want to make it better. And that's something that I acquired through my father. Always make it. You can do better. He would just say that, especially when I started. You could do better. That was his way of lovely saying that, come on, do it. Really? So once you see that done, do you go home and say, man, that's what I want to do? And you have to figure out, you got to get the tools and everything? Because I always thought engraving as a young person was like you saw at a watch shop. They used the gun. I had no idea that it was actually chiseled out with hammers and chisels. Well, this was 1980. And yeah, there was, I think there was a machine out there called the Gravermeister. But I wasn't aware of it at the time. But like I said, Angelo, that's all I used. He used to hammer like this and chisel. This is a different handle that I used. But it was very similar. And to see that for the first time, the 17-year-old kid, I like, again, it just, that's what I want to do. And yeah, it was like, where is he hiding the machine kind of thing too? What's going on here? No, but I was witnessing it right there. I came back the following week. And again, I just watched him. And just inlaying the gold wire. Gold wire to form a ducts, because 24 karat gold wire will, when you put them together, will cold well once it's hammered. And that was something, again, it was just mind boggling. So an art form you never, I never seen. And a very, very European. There were guys doing it here at the time. But yeah, there was a lot of guys doing it, actually. But not like there is today. But I was lucky enough to be mentored by Angelo. You know, after my first introduction to inscribing a name on the back of a watch and then seeing the shotguns, later on, I would say in 1981, I'm seeing the Rolling Stones and you being into guitars like myself, I see Ron Wood playing this zomitis with the disc fully engraved. So here's my next introduction to engraving. I was like, wow, who's doing that? Yeah, I didn't see that till years later. Again, I was totally in the guns, focusing against. I snapped out of it years later. But when I saw that, the guy was good. I don't remember his name, but I think he'd be tired. He had a specific pattern used on the caps, I call it. And it was really nice. The lettering was really good. I think he was a hammer and chisel guy, too. But as far as the history in him, I don't remember. But that was probably my first introduction to engraving on guitars, also. Probably subconsciously got me into that, two other things. I don't know. But yeah, that was pretty cool. So then, of course, what my next introduction to you is, of course, West Coast choppers. I end up buying Mark Nelson's bike. And it has the spade engraved. And then I had the death dealer with the coffin. Oh, he did? Yeah. So I had all these bikes at the Chango. So I had all these. And it was. I didn't know that. You're the guy. Yeah. So it was like, well, I sold them later. And that guy, I think it's, he was a tow truck driver. He bought them all. But it's funny to think about all of a sudden, here's this next level engravings. And that was an incredible thing about West Coast choppers was everything was a total another level. And completely original. You're like, well, what are these engraved air cleaners? And what are these FU pipes? And what are these rims that look like fucking Batman stars? So you were part of that beautiful formula, not necessarily a formula, the beautiful flavor and the high watermark of these choppers. It was really like, and after a while. Well, thanks, man. You would see these air cleaners passing around on eBay for like 25 grand, whatever. At the time, people were crazy. It was different. So people were definitely interested. Yeah. How does, how do you become friends with Jesse? And how do you start, you know, does he see something and go, hey, can you do an air cleaner? Or how does this happen? Well, there's the whole story behind that. It was, I don't know if you remember when the V-Rud show came out of Discovery? Yeah. And then I just saw momentum finally of the motorcycle were catching traction and Jesse started monster and I go, oh, here we go. So I called West Coast and, you know, Jesse was huge at the time. Yeah. And you were going to speak to Jesse, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah, right. Yeah, getting the back of the line. Yeah, Bill Don's just like, eat a dick, bye. No, as a matter of fact. So I'm skipping eight, go on, continue my story. I just said, how about that? There's a show in Louisiana, Steel Pony show. And I went out there and I had a little tube, I showed everybody. And there's a lot of, yeah, okay, cool. And I, titles, it's everybody and no one saw it. So I came back and I talked to a friend of mine and Johnny Chow and he says, I told him the story and he goes, no, no, no. He talked to Bill Dodge. Who's that? He was just the manager. Oh, so I called and I speak to Bill, hold on. And I told him what's up. And this is what I have. And I want to come down and show you what I got. I come down, how about whenever, I don't remember. But I did and he just looked at me and looked at then looked at me with, he wants you to go as exclusive. And I go, wow, I didn't expect that. Sure. And I was exclusive for about two years. Right. And then I finally met Jesse. I was, I just delivered a piece to West Coast and I was walking towards my car and there was Jesse inside the gate on the east side. Right. Hey, man, hey, I'm your guy, I'm your engraving. Oh, very cool. And that's how we met. But he, through that time, hot dog was saying, no, Bill's not the guy. He's the coordinator of everything, but Jesse knows who you are, blah, blah, blah, okay. So, and over the years, we started doing things and it took a while, you know, because this is all business. That's all I wanted, you know. And, but I'm a, he's the Long Beach guy. I'm kind of a Long Beach guy through house in the highest. We connected and we respect each other and he really loved my work. And we just want to do something different. That's not that it's never been done. And sure there was engraving on motorcycles and sure there was a guy who did it before me and that's CJ Allen at West Coast. But I wanted to do it different. I wanted to do sculpting. I want to introduce something that was bad ass and never done it. He saw it, Jesse, they had us do this. And we did it and it just, like you said, took off. And there were times that people called me like, did you just use work? Yeah. You do, did you do this piece? Yeah. So you did the piece, yeah, what? I mean, they really wanted just the guy who did it. And finally, I didn't want to be, I wanted to kind of underground. It's not gonna be swamped. I had other things going on. And I just wanted to be his dude. And it worked out really good. We did a lot of stuff over the years. Well, it's very, a lot of stuff I'm proud of. And he's just, he's a good dude, man. I really like the guy despite what, you know, I hear things, but I don't care about that. He's been great for me. Now at what point do you hook up with Jeff Decker and start this Crocker tank? Because Jeff and I are really close. And he goes, oh yeah, I'm having my entire tank done. And it took years, I guess. But man, when it was done, I was like, holy shit. Well, that's the whole situation itself. But yeah, that was, told me to take my time on it. And all of a sudden he wanted it done. And I did have it for a while. It turned into a thing. But I think I introduced myself through Mark Nelson at West Coast and he introduced me and said, I want to do this tank and okay, let's do it. And that was, you know, you hear the story where you make more money if you ask for, would you like fries with that meal? That's what that was, totally. Because I kept going. I kept going, let's do this and that. That was enormous. I couldn't tell you how many hours, I couldn't. But it came out awesome. Oh man, how long that tank you to do? It's an entire tank. Like I said, I don't know, man, I don't know. I just saw this vision in my head and I had to put it in. And again, I don't care what the, how long it took and apparently he did. And it just, okay, I get it, but it wasn't where I wanted. Let's do this, let's try that. It's never been done, you know? And I didn't want to give it a half-assed job to any of my work, so. Did you do the Brad Pitt bike, the entire bike? At first you just hit the engine, right? And then Brad contacted you and wanted the whole bike done? I never talked to Brad. This is all a Paul Cox thing, but you are right. That's a funny story. Paul called me up and says, I got this guy and he wants to upgrade the bike and wants a lot of work. And who is it? Oh, I can't tell you. Let me tell you a little bit. No, no. And it's a crazy story because I was, I used to listen to a lot of member pirate radio. Oh yeah. I was, I was tapping away and I was, my mind was going, I heard this, call it now to win Billy Joel tickets to the forum. Hello, you are the winner. What? All right. So I won tickets. I never win. I was just thinking about selling them, you know. So, but then they get a call three months later. You were the grand prize winner of, to see Billy Joel, Madison Square Garden, all right. And the background you hear people, yeah. And I'm like, all right. I never knew that was part of the gig. So what do you have to say? All right. You know what you say? I don't know. So I called Paul and said, I'm off to New York. He said, what? He says, great. That's awesome. I got to show you what's going on. And I told him how he was, he was Billy Joel. Dude, this is what it is. So my friend of mine in New York, we went to the concert. A friend of mine who was here, I flew her out to see her brother who went to NYC. And it was really cool. Anyway, once we're there, he showed me the bike. And oh, this is really cool. And he wants Hark Teco. Hark Teco, all right. Well, who is it? Brad Pitt. Okay, Hark Teco. So I thought of, I just, you know, Art Nouveau, I'm a big fan of Hark Teco. Okay. That's going to be complicated. And I'm going to have to create some stuff. So I called him up after I got back and I said, hey, what do you have? And he says, well, we just have the rocker buckets right now and let's just keep it at that. Cool. So I did that. They made the bike. I think that the paint was off or something. I was at the Ineolary Legacy Block Party they had out in Sturgis, they went out there. And I saw the bike for the first time because yeah, they want the paint on. Brad wants the paint on. And they said, whatever reason. But he likes the rocker so much. He wants the entire paint on. That's awesome. That's going to be cool. That's going to be a lot of artwork and a lot of this. And this is what he wants. And it was really interesting because at that time he was married to Angelina and her name and six kids, I don't know, their names are hidden in the bike. And only one can you really spot. And when you're on the bike and you look down, you can see it. But I won't say what it is, but I do a lot of that anyway. But it was his suggestion. So yeah, I did everything. When I saw that bike, I think it's, I saw it at Sturgis. I think it's my favorite bike. Out of all the bikes that were made, there was just something about it. The root beer, the engraving, the handlebar setup, and then when they did that GQ photo shoot of him riding it and everything, it was... It was in California, yeah. Yeah, just the perfect, perfect setup chopper. It was just, that's it. That's the chopper, man. Yeah, it's a delirium, you know. Yeah, totally. Maybe apes. Awesome. It's a beautiful bike. And to see it in Sturgis before they took it apart again, it was beautiful. I'm just surprised that he doesn't show it. He was at, I think he was, Brad was at, no, excuse me. The show out in Irvine. He was there, what is that, on that board? Board for a year and a couple of years ago and I wanted, I didn't see him, but I heard he was there and I wanted to ask him, why aren't you showing the bike? What's the deal? Yeah. I don't know. That kind of sucks. So once he wants the whole bike done, Paul has to take the whole thing apart and then what, does he ship you the frame and the forks and everything? I didn't do the frame, we did the parts. We didn't do the parts. Yeah, the forks, everything, the transmission cover, the headlight was custom made, I believe. And again, he wanted Art Deco, but then he started changing his mind. He says, I guess he wanted, he saw my work. He says, can you add cobs? Can you do, can you, with the Art Deco and this and any other one? Yeah, okay, let's do that. And he looked at the headlight, that was really, really a cool moment. I had some Chevron's right down the middle and scrolled in the back. I have cobs and the flames coming from that. It was a really interesting and fun piece that I'm very proud of. Yeah, that came out, that came out and some of the stuff that came out of my head is like, wow, and there is a story on top of the rocker boxes which I'm not telling anybody, but there's a story there. You look right on top there, you see the, it says something which is kind of personal, but it's just very cool. And I'm, again, very proud of it. When you're working on something like that, I mean, you're what, 43 years in or something you said. And obviously you probably work at your house, I'm not sure, but, where do you- Studio. Oh, studio, you got a studio, you got a, when you get to the placement, is it an eight hour day or do you work five or your hands just tore out? It only depends, it only depends. Like, I'm doing a frame for Jesse now, engraving a frame from now. And it's taken a while because I'm having issues with my thumb, I'm 60 years old last week and my shoulder's kind of going out and it's not what it used to be. And I couldn't, this is my last frame I'm ever doing. It's way, way, you know, you got a maneuver crap and let's say the long tube and the very bottom, it's stainless, so it's very heavy as well as this. You know, it's very, it's just too much weight, right? You want to do one end and the other end is hanging up and you have to develop, a friend of mine, Joe, he helped me develop a way of vice to work hold those giant pieces. But again, it's just too much. Everything is done in quarters because unlike, let's say a rifle, you could do a scroll in one shot, but because it's held down in a specific area, you could only do, let's say a quarter of the side. You can't do a whole scroll and it just, one side, one side, you've been holding, then you tilt it and it stays, it's just, it's just so much time. And like I said, it's, it's a good moment now. I don't want to do large pieces like that anymore. I actually have done. Does that worry you? Because I mean, you'll probably have to just switch to maybe guns and- Wow, good question. Yeah. There's a, I did a job for a guy and he gave me some extra cash. And I thought, you know, I want to take a pastel class, whatever reason, I don't remember what it was about three years ago. So I went to Morro Bay and I took the class and there's this, the teacher was a young guy, probably 40 years old and he would always teach in the class. He was like this and he seemed to spend over and in pain. And I asked him, what's going on? He said, man, I've been having this for a while, blah, blah, blah. In other words, you got to work through it. You know, I'm not in that situation where he is and he's 40. So yes, I am going smaller. I try slides or pistols and so forth. And I'm getting into repose as well. You familiar with repose? That's when, here's the piece I did. I love to see it. Oh yeah. But it's called the James Brown Cup. Yeah. It's a proper plant right there. That's true, yeah. You know what I mean? Like anybody remember laughter? That's right. I just happened to see James Brown clip last night. That's what he reminded me. But yeah, of course, Robert. But when you do is you hammer, this was flat and you hammer from the opposite side. And it projects this, projects its image. And it's, this is, this is silver. Wow. And look at the undercuts here. Yeah, it's beautiful. Pretty crazy. Look at that. So I'm really interested in that. And jewelry as well. I've done some pieces. Or this, I did something like this and I put that out last year. That's all hand engraved. Wow. So smaller, the better. And I think that's the direction I'm going. Yeah, well, a lot of that jewelry is red hot. I mean, you know, starting way back with Chrome Hearts and then Bill Wall and then of course. Bill Wall, yeah. Yeah, Bill Wall. He's the son of mine. Yeah, I love Bill Wall. And then good art, all those guys. And of course the, the original guy, what was his name? Gabor. Gabor. There you go. Man, old school, eighties, Hollywood. People are like, you got a Gabor chain. Whoa. Yeah, yeah. That was crazy, right? It is. Well, there's a lot of imitations of Gabor work to see. Of course it's gonna happen. There's a whole story how Bill Wall, I don't really remember, but how Bill Wall was good friends with Gabor and that's how it started. Travis Walker too. He was involved with the Bill Wall. He did his own thing. He's doing great work right now. He actually took my class last year in Graven class. I've been friends with Trump. I don't know if you know Travis, Travis Walker. Yeah. He took my class last year and we just had a blast. And too bad it doesn't look close. So we'd be definitely hanging it out. So you got, you have, you teach also. And where do you teach at your studio or online? Yeah. Yeah, Costa Mesa. Wow. That's something I didn't want to do for a while. Didn't, didn't. That was kind of a, there was a friend of mine, CJ Allen, who was a motorcycle engraver for years. And I respect the hell out of that guy. He passed away two years ago, but he taught. And I was thinking, okay, I want to get a lot of calls. People are calling me. And I did old school. I called them up and I told them, hey man, I'm getting the calls and I want your blessing on this. Because I know he relied on that gig. So he says, he said, yeah, yeah, man, you got it. You got it. So I thought, okay. And that's waited two years after that before I really started thinking about it again. And then he passed away. So I called his daughter and I told her what's going on. I told her that story. And she goes, yeah, you do it, do it. So I'm doing it. It's just a side thing, but I really do want to pass on. I know a lot. I mean, it was really cool that every question that was asked, I knew, boom, right away, but I can't 43 years. And just trying different ways of doing the same thing. I really want to concentrate, not only on the engraving, but the scroll work as well. That's very important for people who know, because anyone could look at a piece of metal that's engraved and think, well, that looks amazing. Okay, compared to what? How about this? Oh, that's the piece of crap. Yeah, but you have to develop a knife for that as well. And that's what I also I teach. And there's students who are kicking butt. And who needed that help? And I'm glad I could do that. I mean, maybe in a couple of years I'll be breathing down my back, but that's okay. To leave that kind of lineage is just awesome. What type of people are taking the classes? Are they people that have found you over the West Coast Chopper years and are interested in doing motorcycle parts? Or are they looking to do guns or just be an engraver? A majority of them are already engravers. Right. Travis is an engraver. He went to a place out east and the other guys are have been engraving a wild little guy in Oregon, Robert. One guy was a West Coast dude. That's right. And, but other than that, they are just involved in motorcycles who are just, who want to expand their knowledge, who needs that extra push because YouTube videos or whatever, they help, but it's not the same. This is what you gotta do. And there's a lot of going back and forth we'll go to my engraving area and they'll get stuck on something. I'll take them to my drafting table, which just steps away. We go back and forth a lot and you need that visual. And there's a lot of information being shown. And I understand that because when I first started, it was too much, way too much. And you forget it. You have to go through it again and again. And there are tricks around it like how to save money on the equipment. There's a lot of people who are just, Angelo taught me a way of sharpening a graver that takes two minutes and there are people who are selling little devices that sell for a couple of thousand dollars thinking you need this. Okay, you do for a certain amount of for a certain style of engraving which is microscopic engraving. You need that really sharp point but in slides and firearms, motorcycle pieces, especially you don't need that. And some of the guys are just spent all this money in a sharpening system. Well, I accept tips. It's just one of those things where you learn from and that was again first thing Angelo shot told me and I still use it to say this could be shared. And people ask me, what is that trick? Take the class. Yeah, yeah. How do you do the engraving? Let's say of a air cleaner. Is it like a tattoo? Do you lay a stencil, a drawing onto the thing or do you free a hand to just go? That free hand. Wow. I draw the piece first and show those ways of doing it. There was an engraver who just talked about it the other day, he posted something. Well, there is, I know the way of doing it but I'd rather say you want to copy that same thing but then on the other side. I like to draw it, just draw it. It just makes it more artistic. If it's exactly the same. Yeah. Looks like a machine. It does, it does. I do use a machine though. People say, oh, I'm not a hammered chisel guy 100% anymore, no. I sit down more because I do have a hip problem. Other issues and that's called, I use a graver, Meister. I also have Lindsay, I have all the equipment but people who want to learn that. I was interested in the really fine microscopic work years ago. Like watch stuff? Yeah, yeah. I was totally, but mine was guitar picks. I wanted to make a bunch of guitar picks. Oh yeah. And engrave those. I happen to see Sam Bolfano, his YouTube page or website. I don't remember. It must have been a website. Anyway, so I'm looking at it and there's an engraved penny that if you blow it up, nothing's perfect but it's damn near. How the heck did he do that? This is the next generation of engraving. And I called them up, a little bit of investigation and they called them up and I said, I want to take your class. Yeah, come on down and I took it. It was a place called GRS out in Kansas. And I took it and the first day it was a machine I couldn't even do a straight line. I'm a hammered chisel guy. And the guy behind me, an older guy, looked like Santa Claus was a hammered chisel guy too. And I work, we were all saying, I just spent 4,500 bucks on this thing and I'm getting me a straight line, we need to connect. So two days later, we finally clicked. He only got the pedal, he only got this and you go. I already had a graver myself, but I used that for simply. I used to work for, I used to be that, I'm going back and forth I know, but I used to be whether be engravers, a chief and great, whether be rifles, chief engraver. So I need a machine that's cranked, that's simply not. So I did have the machine, but I never used it for engraver. So back to the story, two days go into it if we finally get it, within the little fourth day it started to click, fifth day I got it. And that was in Ling Gold and doing what, doing project that was required on us. And only problem was, I didn't, you're using a microscope, you're like this and you're engraving like this, okay? And I thought, man, I don't want to spend my whole career under a microscope. Oh, dang. And I'm kind of looking at Sam while he's working and he was doing his thing, but taking a lot of breaks. And I'm thinking, man, wow, doing that for all these years. And I'm, you know, young guy at the time, I'm thinking, no, if I got back and I bought that, I'll get with it, anywhere. So I'm thinking, I like big stuff, I like bikes, you know? That's where I want to go, I want to go in that direction. So. Do you ride, I can't remember, you got a bike? I did, I don't have any bikes now, have hip issues. I used to be a power lifter and I jacked up. That's another reason I had shoulder issues. I had one hip replacements 18 years ago, the other one was ready to go. I can't throw my leg over, but I did, I loved to ride. This is one of those things. Yeah, man, we're getting old. I'm 57, I'm going to be 58. Your body just fucking falls apart. You know, when you're riding all your life, like I rode like all my life, you know, your hand from the clutch, the throttle, and then your hip from shifting. I'm talking about, you know, I didn't own a car for, I don't know, something like 18 years or something, you know? When you ride every day of your life and then you do stuff like what you're doing, everything starts to fall apart. So I rode, I played guitar, I'm riding and after a while you're like, my shit is broken, you know? It's crazy, right? You just fall apart. Oh man, it really hit me with my thumbs a lot because of that freaking frame. I told Jesse, it's like, I'm sorry it's taken so long, but man, this is, yeah, I never had issues with it. Probably because when, I feel it now when you hold the back of the headstock, you know? Yeah. The neck, and that's about it. But as far as, I'm, it's just, it sucks. I have back issues as well, not as bad, but everything, six years old, I'm still holding up. I still engrave, I still enjoy it. That's what counts, you know, work through the pain. I know lots of guys who have major issues or are young and have back issues or always sitting, or that's sitting correctly. I hunch over, I hunch her. But to do it for this long still, I mean, I got a lot of years ago on that. So, and I know a lot of guys who had to give it up because of whatever reason, it's a carpal tunnel. And it's my right hand, I have no issues, but that's the picking hand anyway, or, you know? So. What got you into guitar? Who was it? My uncle Frank gave me a guitar at six years old and an acoustic, I don't know what it was, but the whole family on my dad's side, not the whole family, but a majority of the family were guitar players. And I had the guitar, I never had any proper training until high school. I was, became friends with the local band at the time in Austin and the Heights, the Weedier area. They were called No Surprise. And I used to hang out, and I used to be the roadie and the roadie, so how long, you know? And I was that guy. But I enjoyed it, I enjoyed being a part of that. And those guys would teach me a lot about, you know, about power chords with the first one and getting out, getting out of the pentatonic scales, getting outside of the box. And I just, that's how it started. And then the bug hit me again. I went to Fullerton College for a while, Fullerton JC. And I was really interested in theory, but man, I had issues with that. I just didn't get it. Yeah, the modes finally clicked in about 10 years ago. I didn't understand it. Somebody said, this is, oh, that's it? You know, 30 years later. What I finally understood it. So these days, you're mostly doing stuff for Jesse again. And he's out there, he's doing guns and, Hillary. Yep, he's doing guns, choppers, knives, cutlery, yeah. Are you doing his guns also? I was at the beginning, but there's a point where it said, he wanted to give me, you know, all these items. That's, I can't do it, man, you know, you go somewhere else. I'm not going to get this, you know, it's a business. Yeah. And he did, he found some really cool engravers. And that's what, to the level that he wants, there's a couple of guys who are just killing it. I don't know. Again, that's a lot of microscopic work using a loop and that's fine, but I'm not there. I'll do the big stuff. Yeah. Except for friends. Yeah. Time for that. Well, I gotta tell you, man, I've loved your work since the first air cleaner I ever saw. And I just still think that it's some of the most unique and incredible pieces on choppers and that era of choppers. Yeah. What was created with all of the parts, the full fucking stew, you know, the rims, the pipes, the air cleaner, the grips, the brimbo control, all of that shit that engraved brimbo tops. That shit that you were doing, it was just epic, man. And it adds to the mystique and the whole thing of Long Beach, you know, West Coast choppers. So it was really cool to talk to you. And like I said, I do think that that Brad Pitt bike is the holy grail of the choppers of that era and your work. It's just like a rolling piece of Tay masterpiece, you know? Oh, thanks, man. Yeah. I love when I used to look at, when I was at no love or whatever and I'd be in a, just looking at people who would look at the bike and then come on the other side, whoa, look at that air cleaner. Yeah. Yeah. The debt dealer one, the coffin. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. That was a really good time. Hell yeah, man. Well, I hope to see you. I don't know if you're into comedy but I'm doing Irvine improv December like 20th. If you want to come see some comedy, I'll put you on the list, man. Come on. Absolutely man. I appreciate that. Yeah. I love Bill and then just discovered your friends with him. Yeah. And I was checking some of your, some of your, your past podcasts and while you have some heavy hitters, why are you asking this guy? Yeah. Well, you know, I, I love to feature, you know, artisans and maker, you know, people like yourself that, that have inspired me over the years of like, look at, like, you know, anybody can just go to Harley Davidson and buy a fucking motorcycle. But at the end of the day, you want something that nobody else has. May it be an engraved air cleaner or somebody doing a Rolex or your gun has some killer engrave. You don't want to just pull out the same old nine millimeter and people are like, yeah, I got a nine millimeter or I got a fucking air cleaner, whatever it is. And, and all of that stuff just, I just love that because I was in metal shop and I was in wood shop and I was in auto shop. And all of that shit sucked for me. I loved, I loved it. I love it. But I'm not good at it. I'm good at clowning on the guys while they're doing it and making them. So that was, that was, that was my thing. Entertaining why we were sitting there trying to pull the motor out like, you know, cracking some jokes, having fun. So I really respect people. People that can fucking build shit or make stuff. That is just, you know, I mean, whether it be mid-century furniture or an architect, like an Eichler or Frank Lloyd Wright or anything, everything about design and inspiration. I want to talk about creating man, creating because, you know, in the world of what we're going into right now of fucking AI and, you know, AI is basically the CNC machine of entertainment now. That's what that's going to fucking be. No, man. You know, it's scary. For my world, for my world, I'm not worried about it. No, not at all. No, not at all. There's too many, there's way too many things in my head that hasn't been done yet. AI ain't going to figure out what to be able to do. Maybe in a hundred years, I don't know, but when I say something like that, like that Tuesday half, so 50 years, but still what's coming out, the engravers are coming out nowadays. It's a whole different world. I had some people, three people in one year about seven years ago approached me on doing an engraver show. Oh, wow. It's not the time. It's not the time. Give it 10 years. And there's three more years, and it's going to be the perfect timing, the new tattoo shows, you know, the engraving. It's going to be, it's really taken up. And it has a lot to do with doing other things rather than firearms, which I'm the big part. I want to do something totally different. I went to a talk to engraver back in 93 and at a Vegas show, and he was like, this is an engraver show up north. And I said, this is not great, but I want to do motorcycles. He's like, what? He looked at me like I was, you know, he's got a third head. And then I showed it to him, my piece years later, he's like, wow. You can do it on other pieces, the rather than firearms, and it just exploded. Now it's everywhere. Jay Park, I mean, he's blown out of water. Yeah. I went to the park to add him on the show years ago, man. Did you? Oh yeah, he blew my mind. We became friends with his work on Rolexes, man. That shit he was doing with the Grateful Dead and the Dancing Bears in a whole fucking case. And I mean, you know, he's doing the guitar picks. He's doing the necklaces. That's where I wanted to go. The direction, right after I took Sam's class, I wanted to engrave that, but as again, I was like, I can't do that. I can't spend all my time under a freaking microscope. And I'm sure later in the years, they're going to be thinking that. I don't know, maybe enjoy it. That's just me, but I couldn't do it, man. I need to open space. I need that. I need all that to be like that all day. Boy, he is the king on the watches, man. He is. Yes. He's amazing. He's a good pair too. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. Well, I hope to see you soon. Hey, real quick. Do you have an air cleaner or anything sitting around that somebody can see real quick here? If not, I'll put photos up. All right. Well, this is a. Oh, wow. There we go. There we go. Look at that. Yeah. Look at that, man. And it's. Look at that. I love that's the only. That's the only item I have. That's right. Yeah. I'll post some photos on the internet. I'll post some photos on the Instagram anyway of all the, all the epic famous. Air cleaners and the Brad Pitt bike. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. I can't thank you enough for doing the show and I love your work, brother. Tell everybody where to find you on Instagram. It is. At. Tara. T. A. One. Okay. There you go. Go to his Instagram and where can they take your class at? Just get a hold of me on Instagram or Facebook and. The class is in Costa Mesa. Okay, great. California. Orange County area. 20 minutes away from Disneyland. So while you're here, I'm going to tell you a little bit about my class. Which I did have the guy. Took the class. The last guy took the class. He brought his family and they did Disneyland. Took a trip up north. So. Make a vacation. That's great. How long is the class a week or something? Three days. Okay. And I was told I don't charge enough. Oh, yeah. Let's give hot dog a shout out to long live. He's a great friend of mine. I talked to him about. Three months ago. Hey, man, I. Call these guys to have a job for you. I said, okay, who's the four? Tim Allen. Cool. Really? I'll be doing a job. Job for Tim Allen. Yeah. Wow. That's fucking great, man. Yeah. It was while he pulls through. Keep rocking. See you later.