 Hey folks, welcome to date tech at your phone today. I had a really cool chat with a friend of mine called Tangy Morgan Who is a special advisor at the Bank of England a mentor and just a bunch of other things too? We talked about the future of work. We talked about automation algorithms AI tech Financial services all of that stuff. So we covered a lot Really really great to listen to her views and I hope you enjoy it Hey, it's Lewis. Welcome to the podcast Enjoy conversations anytime anywhere And we're live. Thank you Tangy for joining me on the podcast. We've had So many awesome chats and we should have probably recorded all of them But yeah, I wanted to have a chat with you given what you do and all that stuff I thought we could have a good chat about where life and the planet and Everything's good. Yeah, great. So, yeah, so what's your background? Well, I'll give you the short version for the last over 30 years I've been in the global reinsurance insurance arena working in the US for near the London and international markets and about three years ago I was doing a transition a career and Looking to do more. I guess you say non-execut advisory work after leaving an executive career I was appointed by the Bank of England's Prudential Regulation Authority come in as a senior advisor. Yeah, yeah, and That has been awesome. It's interesting because six months after my appointment We had the the brexit vote and all the things that we know So from a regulatory standpoint from the central bank standpoint There has been a lot of focus obviously on the transition and the effects on the Financial services sector, which is a huge part of GDP as we know for the UK But over and above that I'm also a senior advisor to a strategy or worldwide which is an Organization founded by Sir Richard Sheriff and Ian Pickert a couple years back to address the risk management Looking at various businesses mostly extractive industries in Africa and some of the To be emerging economies and looking at risk management looking holistically across the piece from a societal a technological You know sustainability perspective and how do you work with boards to understand the upside and downside risk? So technology however has become more and more to the center of a lot of the business models And looking at profitability looking at how do you attract? new talent and This has become very much a part of major discussions around board tables for both of the things You've been doing for both of things that I've been doing as well as I'm also a mentor at Techstars Barclays Accelerator, which Techstars is a very large global VC that focuses on fintechs globally UK based. It is US base US based. However in Tel Aviv in London and in New York they co-partner with Barclays Bank basically what occurs is there are applications that come in from around the world and they go through a vetting process and ultimately there are 10 startups that go into this accelerator for 13 weeks and during that time we have various mentors you have various training in order to get them prepared to You know seek more capital and it's it's really exciting So they let come in with an idea exactly they come in with the idea some are at various stages Some are early along in the process where you can start to help them craft their story help them target market You know refine the pitch if you will yeah, and others maybe at the latter stages where they are looking to Develop relationships that the mentors may have in order to get them More capital and actually be able to scale up amazing under these typically young people But I've got some crazy idea to revolutionize something. Oh, you know, I Was really amazed my first year getting involved with tech stars Barclays was last year and what struck me just like you I assumed that I was gonna walk up to Rise Offices in short edge and there were gonna be all these you know young kids and sandals and jeans whatever, you know Walking in with these outlandish ideas, but actually what I found I would say probably about 50% of the folks that are operating in these businesses are probably mid to some are say 30 and above all right you have some that are older you have people that might very similar be like me who've had executive careers in financial services and now are looking to do something different and What you find so the age is very right? Okay? Yeah. Yeah, and what you do tend to find is a lot of the startups that are in the accelerator the CEOs and CFOs and Founders have actually worked in the banking sector or the insurance sector with more so if they're doing fit If they're doing a fintech exactly and so what they have come away with are seeing better ways more Efficient ways in order to address issues that they saw in their day-to-day work So they for instance are looking at Operational resiliency, you know, how do you begin to look at the risk that you take on from? I technology and your business planning and wanting to Have 24 seven access by your customer base. What are the risks associated with that? And how do you integrate that into the overall business planning? Yeah. Yeah, interesting Yeah, and so and so why are they coming to be to the boot camps? Is that what you? Well, I Guess I don't know that I would necessarily call them boot camps, but maybe you could say that there are a lot of Iterations of boot camp tech. Yeah startup Accelerator incubator. Yeah, there's so many names around it. There's so many names. But basically the way I say is that this particular the way this particular Accelerator if you will is structured is that you have three mentor days and so various people such as me People from the cabinet office people that are in banking people in consultancy private equity investors themselves decide to if you will volunteer their time in their expertise to this group of firms that are in The they celebrate it for that time great So we get to learn from them they get to learn from us and in actual fact There have been a few mentors that have actually left their day job and going to Who knows you may have me coming saying I'm working for the latest Who knows I mean, but it really is exciting Is it really a creative environment is it it's a creative environment It's one where of course it's open space and you have the different breakout area Yeah, the coffee shops and all the usual things that one would expect But what I found interesting also is that I leave my office in the city, you know bank to And you walk less than 10 minutes and you're in a totally different environment It's like it's like Superman you're like clock and you need to get the glasses off I mean when I walked in the first time I went up there I had left the office and of course I was suited and booted as we say and when I walked in I totally felt overdressed But but it's a really really neat environment. I like the buzz. I like the vibe People are really interested in hearing from someone like me whom has had a very perfect career and It really is fulfilling to me after having the career of 30 plus years and being able to in part some of the I guess some of the knowledge some of the experiences that I've Amassed over the years and and actually see where it's helping folks. No, I think it's great Just on back on to the undress Which is interesting. I've been having it. I was speaking to my friend yet only yesterday about dress codes When I started working in the city, which is about 15 or 16 years ago after a prior career in fashion and stuff And it was always like suit tie top button done up. Otherwise, you would never get through the door But now I'm finding, you know, I went to see a chairman for an insurance company the other day And my shirt collar was like slightly too tight because either it shrunk or my neck had got bigger And I had my tie on and I was feeling really uncomfortable and you know if you're not feeling comfortable You're not going to be your best. So I was like debating and I thought right I'm getting rid of the tie and I turned up and he was in jeans in the t-shirt Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm like, yeah, just thinking a lot about, you know How dress has changed and also, you know, the FinTechs being in shortage, you know Which are the financial technology firms of finance firms and they're all you know, they're dressing casual goldman's have scrapped their dress codes It's interesting. Have you seen it also changing? Well, I think that I must I Must come come clean here. I am of a certain age and I do feel more comfortable if you will be in a more traditional dress. Yeah. Yeah, I think that it is Really the tone from the top with regards to dress and with regards to organizations So your particular situation you went to that meeting and the CEO was dressed casual now that Was that only the particular Friday or Monday or did they have a dress code that had been relaxed for various reasons? The question would be would that CEO when he goes to his board meeting? Okay with his investors and with his chairman Would he go in in a t-shirt and jeans? I would tend to say probably not You know, you're probably right, but it's interesting because you see a lot with social media now I don't be past your Instagram and there's a lot of motivational stuff And and there's some amazing things and really a big message at the moment. It's like don't be the same as everyone else You know, and there's a good guy and reading his book at the moment called David Goggins I'm really cool American guy and his little quote is be uncommon amongst uncommon people and and you want to stand out I I I understand wanting to stand out. I understand individuality. I understand the term bring your whole stuff to work and all of this however, I I still go with the I Still come from the standpoint of You need to get in the room first. Yeah. Yeah, and so I would not encourage a Young applicant college grad or whomever that seeking a job in perhaps financial services and a more traditional in the city To rock up for their interview Being themselves in t-shirts and jeans. Okay. Yeah, I would suggest that they should go more traditional Okay Because you want to be yourself and you want to bring your whole self and be different however, you don't want your Different attire or I don't know it. Let's just keep with attire to actually distract From you getting the opportunity to sit in front of the HR director to sit in front of whomever You need to sit in front of now once you're in and once you understand the the culture and the Dynamics and the lay of the land You know, then I think that there is room for you to express yourself but with once again within the The culture of the business that you're working in. Okay and once again, I come at this from being someone who's over 50 and my take on a tire and You know, basically how you interact within the office business Situations may be slightly different and maybe a bit of faith. I will put my hands up for that But we must remember that people that are of my age and older are people that are still in the senior level roles Absolutely. No, no, you're right. Yeah, you're right. It's kind of like get along before you can get on, you know This is correct. Yeah, you got to get in the room. We've got to get in the room You've got to dress appropriately for the meeting or the interview or whatever you're doing for sure for sure Then I completely agree with that. I just think now it's got It's it used to be very clear cut correct and now it's a little bit gray but you know, it's interesting because I can remember when I was in New York still before I came to London and this was during the time of the the Technology bubble idea. Yeah dot-com bubble Yeah, and so there was a thing where I tell you in the morning sometimes when I was going to work You would see the the Wall Street bankers and folks. Oh my goodness. They looked like they just rolled out of bed I mean they barely had come their hair They they were in scruffy t-shirts looking like my goodness But they were you know making a lot of money and they were going to Wall Street and actually there was A lot of talk around the fact that a company such as Brooks Brothers and Joseph a bank I don't know if you're familiar with Joseph bank, but it was sort of the Brooks Brothers of the U.S. They actually had a drop in their sales because You know bankers were not coming in and buying the the suits and the ties and everything because it was it was almost a race to see who could be the scruffy You know and that was a badge of honor Okay, and then after You know the dot-com bubble and and things began to turn somewhat You started to see the dress go back to the very much Uh, you know super smart. Yeah. Smart ties Buttoned down whatever. You know, so I found that to be quite interesting. Of course that was You know over, you know 15 20 years ago. So we have we have really changed I mean technology and the fintechs and the startups and things that that We know have really changed the dial on that so Perhaps we might not see anything as dramatic as that but who knows I mean fashion fashion comes and goes right? I mean, you know, some people love being smart It's nice. You feel great in a good suit. You know, you feel like a million dollars and Um, but then it just seems at the moment. There's a little wave. I think even goldman's a scrap. They dress goes Yes, and once again, it is it's really the tone from the top if people are Uh empowered and it's not just Something that is sad a platitude, but it's actually Demonstrated amongst the senior management and senior leadership. Um, I think that that makes a big difference. Yeah Yeah, no, that's true apart from apart from dress and stuff from your position at the bank Have you seen any other Any other interesting trends that are affecting The future of how we're working and well, I think not only from from the bank but just in dealing with The fintech startups that we've discussed and just um other Observations that I've had amongst the the business market What you're seeing is and what you're hearing about. I was just at mansion house the other evening for the international bankers Dinner that they have and there was a there was a speech and and it's one that you hear over and over again the terms such as diversity inclusion the terms of Attracting new talent. How do you attract new talent into the business? How do you up skill your workers that are currently in work and how do you begin to basically Give the employee The same type of experience with regards to their relationship with technology as they have in their private life Into their work life. Yeah, because we see a blurring of the lines. So basically What we are seeing it more and more of is Flexible working people You know returners women perhaps that have left the workforce to have children They're now looking to come back into the workforce. There's an integration program for them We are looking at well-being mental health and things of that nature and also Appreciated in the fact similar to what we've just been talking about How do you make or create an environment in very traditional businesses such as the central bank or or insurance Lloyds of London and all the places that we know. How do you make those places more appealing to The younger talent that is coming in and that will be needed. How do you actually Entice someone that is just coming out of university To want to come and work in a more traditional environment Rather than go to work for google or facebook or go to start. Well, I met a founder of a fintech recently and he He showed me this graph which was really interesting and then along one axis It's like the the the complexity of the problem that the particular industry is trying to solve And then up the top is how cool the industry is and people want to work for the coolest industries with the biggest problems to solve Right say tesla google facebook, etc And then if you look at financial services, it's really really interesting problems to solve In insurance, you know, it really keeps the economy moving and stuff, but it's not cool No, and so and so that's a problem. You know, you have amazing right? It's an image. Yeah Yeah, and and we you really hit something that that is quite Noticable, okay, um as i'm telling you, you know folks in the city are talking about, you know, how do we attract new talent? Uh vision 2030 that has just been uh completed by the bank. It will be socialized at some point But it's really looking at um, how will the central bank look in 2030 and that would A large focus of that quite frankly Uh is around the talent talent retention Once again bringing in the data scientists bringing it, you know making Um, you know the financial services sector be an insurance banking investment banking making it look cool Um, because there are a lot of issues that quite frankly are big issues that Whether you like it or not financial services are there their safety nets Insurance is there, you know for protection. Uh, you know, if you have a loss if you sustain some sort of Ventury, there is a safety net, you know, there's a um, you can be Made whole again. Um, you know when you look at banking and finance We still are in a world where you need money, you know for sure. Yeah economy You need jobs and things of that nature. So we do have an image issue and I think that Um, more and more of you will continue to hear the concerns about how do you Change the image. How do you make the the traditional financial services cool? What you're finding is that this, um An ecosystem is being developed where in you have the fintechs the insurer techs and people operating Um outside of if you will the regulatory environment, you know, the peer-to-peer the crowd funding things Of that nature. So actually if you think about it, they're really trying to solve some of the same issues in a way But but in a different in a different um, if you will environment Yeah, it's it's not outside of the the traditional Institutional you do have a lot. Yeah, it's interesting because I mean like with with debt For example, a lot of private equity firms and and private individuals and family officers are doing private debt You know filling the gap that the banks have been unable not been able to lend from Um, it's interesting but again it just goes back to what you were saying It comes from the top and you see the the major financial services firms people like people like themselves And they're hiring similar people from similar firms to do similar jobs and People don't seem to want to take a risk on someone who's slightly left field or And this this is um, also another issue that I think traditional institutions and and if you will The regulators and things really need to take into account because you while you do want to have qualified and experienced people that are leading your organizations on your board In your senior leadership There is something to be said about we do Tend to to bring on people to hire people that are similar to us. Yeah, okay, and so While you can understand that to a certain extent, you know, they they fit the mold they are not going to be disruptive. They're not going to Basically upset the apple card too much. Yeah, but what you actually have to also understand Is this thing called technology and this thing about? well I may have been in the business for 30 or 40 years and I may be the bee's knees if you will however How comfortable am I with Doing a podcast or how comfortable am I using an ipad versus having my board papers? Okay, and actually More importantly Do I understand how technology? Is coming more and more to the center of my business model? Okay, then previously it might have been you know technology from Moving from old legacy systems to new systems moving If you have M&A Activities going on how are you bolting on the various legacy systems in order to join it up? What kind of technology are you implementing within the business? Not just for cost savings or to cut expenses by getting ai or getting machine learning You have to appreciate what The pros and the cons are of that and what's most appropriate for your organization? and then you have to add on the fact that we have now Have a customer base that is Um, not necessarily waiting on us the traditional institutions to tell them what they need or to tell them This is the product you need or this is how you should behave or act You've got the customer now saying telling us what they want. So you've got all of these things going on You've got internal technology. You've got external technology. You've got ai You've got algorithms and algorithms and things of that nature that are all in the mix That are very much becoming more central to The business models and I would argue for not only financial the financial services sector But for education for health care. I mean That that technology and that change across the piece is really Why we need to think differently about who we have at the top table How do we incorporate someone that is technology savvy that might not look like us? Might not talk like us, but very much understand You know the what i'm talking about what i've just and any any you seeing that people at the top table at the moment Are embracing technology and they're they're interested in learning about How these new things are working and I've got this growth of mindset and Or are you seeing more? You know, well, we've been doing this like this for you know, 30 years and it's been great and You know, why are we going to check? You know, I think it runs the gamut quite frankly you see Some boys and these are my opinions from my work and observations Um, you see some boys that are very much entrenched in this is what we do Um, we are concerned about shareholder value. We're concerned about paying dividends. You know, we are concerned about ROE and so The technology piece doesn't necessarily play front and center. Right. Yeah Um, then you see others that are more open to it, perhaps because Unfortunately, they may have had a cyber hack or they may have had some outage of their operations. And so It does then become a topic. Okay, and as a concern and there is more Discussion around sustainability and operational resiliency and things of that nature Um, but you tend to still see in my opinion You tend to still see if it's technology. It's an it issue. Okay. And yeah, we have a cto We have a cdo And and they're gonna handle that Um, so I am still and once again it varies by industry sector. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, but I'm still seeing um pretty much The technology piece is not front and center, which I find interesting because if you take it to cyber, which everyone talks about Um, I think I heard the other day that 51 percent of CEOs have a concern about cyber It is the it's a key risk Hacking and things of that nature But um, of course in the u.s. We have seen um a heck of a lot more uptaken cyber insurance and mobility and things of that nature then you have Outside of the u.s. And however, uh with gdpr and things of that nature Uh in train now We may look we may see more of an uptake, but in reality It's it's a risk is considered is discussed. Um, but how are firms actually addressing it? Yeah, yeah You know, it seems to be sort of a thing. It's it's not going to happen to us Yeah, no, absolutely. It happens for sure. What I have seen recently is a real up Um uptaken in like the chief digital officer. Yes. Yeah, which, you know, five ten years ago never existed And so that's been quite interesting. Yeah, the the chief digital officer the chief technical officer, you know, Terminology name you want to give it. It's great to see that. Um, however The other side of that is Are they actually at board level? Are they sitting on the board? Are they sitting around the table? Okay, or are they Brought in at certain points, you know, when there's an it issue or or digital issue A lot of them are doing great work. Um, they are actually project managing if it will a lot of Data transformation programs within the businesses and of course they are cited Have cited because of the financial implications, you know investments and and uh bringing on temporary staff and things of that nature From a cost perspective and of course there are cost benefit analysis that are done and all of that. So I do I am Really pleased to see as you say that we're seeing more cto's and cto's. But once again How are they have they been able to move the dial and move the discussion at the top table? Yeah And that will continue to be the challenge for a while. I believe that's true That's true. I there's probably not many in financial services firms that are on boards In other industries other sectors they are starting to yes. Um, so as financial services again catches up You'll start to see that because ultimately financial services firms are tech firms with customer services attached Well, it's interesting you say that because um, I think it was Goldman Sachs and jp morgan a couple years ago There was a statement made by both stating that they were not banks. They were a technology company and um, I am to understand that uh, jp morgan in one of their I think maybe asset management. They are actually requiring their staff to take coding. Oh, wow Lessons, so um that I found is quite interesting. That's great. But quite frankly, I do argue that most companies in Many sectors, okay Are becoming more technology companies That sell goods and services around the technology Which is why to the earlier point That I made where you see technology not just being the back office or About the phone systems or things of that nature. It is really becoming more central to the business Proposition That businesses have and so this is why people like cto's and cto's really need to have a voice at the table Yeah, and also how the firms run correct, you know how your your experience as an employee Correct your daily activity. Yeah, that's brilliant. Have you have you seen much impact from AI yet in financial services? from my um From my standpoint what I am seeing is a lot of proof of concepts Um, we're in some of the the fintechs that we've earlier spoken about are insure techs Ed techs if you will are Coming in and doing pocs. They have an idea where they can Provide a solution Give more efficiency to operations that are being done. And so there are a lot of pocs that are being done in the market. Yeah, um So from that perspective AI machine learning. Yeah is Being looked at. Okay. Um, but once again, what I see is that AI or more Um, correctly machine learning. Yeah, I'll go with them. See is is is being used to address the specific issue in the firm It's not necessarily holistic and how can it not only address one specific issue But have more applicability or be scaled up throughout the firm. Yeah, and um, so that's what we're seeing We're seeing um, obviously algorithms being used in ETFs and things of that nature. Yeah, um, so So There is an acknowledgement once again some firms are further along the spectrum than others. Yeah, but you are seeing Um integration of machine learning. Yeah What I found really interesting is is, you know, everyone can you speak to someone and and everyone's like, oh, you don't know me as well As I know myself And there's this like self thing of you know, how can you possibly know me better than I know myself? what's interesting is um Is algorithms probably do know you better than you know yourself You know, you have like so google a recording a lot of stuff, right? Um, I don't know about I go on my social media feed and it's super tailored to Something I've spoken to my mate about because they have access to your microphone And in my habits, I mean, I mean literally, you know, you could argue That in a very short space of time They will know you better than you than you know yourself and therefore with you know insurance insurance products Health care all of this kind of stuff um It's going to be amazing. I mean, you know algorithms are going to be infiltrating Every single part of our lives of businesses um There'll be much more efficient than humans And I find that very very uh interesting because you know on one side it's like super scary How can that computer know me better than I know myself? How can it predict that? I'm gonna, you know do this or I want to buy this or You know on the other side. It's quite cool. I mean I have a different view on that. Um, quite frankly, as you well know, we've talked about this I speak a lot on algorithmic bias And the lack of diversity if you will We all know that the majority of coders quite frankly are young white guys that are sitting in Silicon Valley or various places And they are coding um, we have seen and continue to see um Different, um I guess you'd say anomalies maybe or different outputs that are discriminatory against certain populations against women Yeah, it's it's interesting that the Machine just because it's machine Does it mean that it is neutral? Okay, and where I'm going with this is yes I agree that we are being monitored Consistently our iPhones are tracking us. Um people have Nest in their homes and and we technology is all around us. Okay. Um, however We cannot overlook the fact that There are Bias data sets. There are bias um if you will parameters or linkages That may be in play because the machines that are learning off of themselves And yes, you could say well tangy. They're taking my data. So how biased could that be? Well, it is informing you it is tracking you it is it is affecting your behavior it is Having an effect that may seem on the surface that it's great. It's it's comfortable. It's Cool that when I sign on it knows that I want to go here Or it can tell me this and all that and I'm not saying that technology and algorithms and the benefits that it gives us are all Wrong or bad. Okay, but I think that we should also appreciate the fact that um They do not necessarily provide contact And and it's been said over and over again that machines cannot You know, they're they will not be human. There is something about the neural Networks that we have in our brain that can't be mimicked By the neural networks and technology. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, I mean maybe in uh, I don't I don't disagree I mean, I think I was just saying off offline I'm reading Well, I'm listening I'm doing an audiobook. Um, and I did sapiens and just listened to homo deus by uvel Harari and uh, and he's a humanist. So, you know, he believes that we're just algorithms And uh, and as you know machine learning and the algorithms that we're designing improve Um, ultimately it's going to be better than us and and that's the Scary or exciting thing. I mean, but I mean from what you're from what you're talking about I mean, sure we have to be, you know, very careful with who's developed and how they're developed and and and what they're being used for um, but it's something like I think google are doing a project with Um, I think it's a healthcare or financial services firm But you can imagine how much info google have on us And and you accept that they're able to track your data and you're given permission and you're taking all these boxes You've got no idea. I really give them permission. What is informed consent? No, I do. I really give them permission Okay, so now with gdpr everyone we click on every website is is really annoying. It's so annoying that you have to click Yes, click click click. How many times have you actually printed out and read the 30 plus pages of what's there? How do have you really understood that in some Websites it states that they have the right to monitor Your activities online So many hours before you actually come to their website and so many hours after I mean, we are actually just giving away Our data and some of it you may say tangy. So what I don't care. It's for the greater good You know people know that I'm exceeded in the speed limit or people know You know that I My driver's license are out of you know Past due or yeah, so I mean there are certain benefits to to the technology and your data being used for the greater good but you know I do believe that Um There is something to be said about understanding where the data is being used how it's being used And the consumer themselves needs to have a clearer understanding of that and that is why A lot of people are now talking Towards or putting the idea out to have a A data regulator, you know, um, yes, sort of going us over the regulation How how things Are being used but to get back to your point about algorithmic bias Discrimination will google itself Back in 2015 Was had to offer an apology because One of their black employees when his doing facial recognition equated him to an ape Okay, and quite frankly if you go and you google, you know, beautiful babies You will have to go a long way down the the The pictures Uh before you find, uh, you know a brown baby. Okay, because I mean so these are things that Are occurring now. I'm not saying that people are sitting in a room and actually looking to discriminate or there's some master plan here What I'm saying is We have to be We have to be conscious of not letting the technology and the capabilities of the technology Get away from us And not marry up what the unintended consequences are with that and what i'm seeing in my Various activities is that You are seeing a compartmentalization Between the folks that are really really tech savvy really cutting edge with the technology piece of it And and the governance Around that and how the how would that play out in society? Okay. Yeah, and this is what my concern is But one last thing I will say With regards to ai I was recently at a meeting where tom elube who is a internationally recognized Ai specialist expert, uh, he owns a cybersecurity firm here in the uk And the way he described it the question was will ai change our world will ai How will it affect us? Will it similar to your comments? And he explained it such as this he said If you look at if you think about electricity It is just here It's a part of our everyday life. We don't really think about it. It's a part of us, right? It's everyday occurrence and he posits that as we go along Okay, it's not going to be immediate. But as we go further along the spectrum ai Will be the algorithm the things that you're talking about will just be a part of our everyday life And so the change my view is that I do not believe I really do not believe that robots and technology ai will take over the world What I believe is that we will begin to Live amongst them and there will be certain things in a work environment and a healthcare environment and whatever that that they That the ai will do and then there'll be certain things that we as humans will do I believe that there will be that we will learn to interact co-existent to coexist That is fine rather than like some superhuman new top of the food chain Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's interesting and then and just moving on to I guess humans So, you know, if we've been living for a while, we have to adapt to this new Thing I mean if you're born now, I mean it's just That's how it is, right? And so it's interesting. What skills do you think people are going to need? Moving forward in the next even five or ten years if they've if they've used to You know working for the last 20 or 30. It's quite The pace is is incredible. It's very it's going to be different. Um, I believe that One of the main skills that people are going to need is just to be adaptable quite frankly. Yeah Meaning that and and also there was a book that was written by The london business school two academics there linda gratton and andrew scott and the book's called the 100 year life And basically one story short what we're accustomed to has been you go to university You finish school you get a job you work and then you retire. Okay Uh, if we're living For a hundred years, I think I think we pretty much said, okay, we're gonna live to a hundred Hey, um What are you gonna do? Okay, and so the point is what you're seeing already Uh, and actually I'm a An example of this, you know, you finish university You work in corporate environment. You have these careers and then you come to a point where you retire. You are Restructured whatever and then you find yourself. Okay, so what do I do now? Um, and what a lot of people are doing Um is going back and retooling. Yeah, so you're going back to university. You're learning something new Which may be totally different from what your career was And then you go out and you continue to work in an advisory role in a consultancy role Um, you know, we talk about the gig economy I think that's a misnomer because most people think of the gig economy as the delivery room Or the uber driver the gig economy is actually people that are working on part-time basis in interim basis because they are not working in permanent Roles as we would know with the benefits and all of the things That we traditionally looked at so the point is that going forward we will be working longer I believe and We will have better physical mental Capabilities, which will allow us to do that and so the skill sets will be you will Continue on but you will need to to learn and to adapt to Always evolve. Yeah Um, I don't I completely agree. I've read the book. It's awesome But I just put the point that if you're fortunate enough to be able to afford to go back and retrain Because obviously, you know, a lot of the big social problems nowadays are I mean, everyone's got more wealthy That's you know, indisputable, but there's still a big gap between You know the haves that have knots and and you know, if you happen to be born in a a low socioeconomic background or You know, you're just doing a low-paid job. I mean, you know, we're gonna have to work They've had very good paying jobs. However, they come upon You know various issues that may have caused them to fall out of the times the I guess you said income the work the workforce. Yeah, and and so Those are tough too you know, and um, it is a situation where we're seeing more and more inequality At the same time people are more wealthier globally than they ever had. Yeah, and in better health actually Yes, yeah, ever have been so it is um, it is a tough thing. And I think I know where you're going with this is So you could say well, tangy if you're saying that probably People will have two or three different careers um Work in the the new businesses that are starting up or actually you're seeing the model where There are a couple of founders that put the money in or have the idea to start the operation And then everyone that works for them are considered contractors or it's not a traditional Yeah, it's very different. Yeah, people want to work flexibly people don't want to work Um, you know, maybe seven days a week. They want to work when they need Cash for something. You know, so you have different patterns that are uh, come into the fore From a work perspective that and what people expect of work that will change things but also what happens is is that that Permanent role that you know, I work for this company for 20 or 30 years. I'm paying into a pension I'm I have health benefits and things of that nature. You will not necessarily have those type benefits in the work Um, if you go with the work scheme that I've just uh articulated. Yeah. Yeah. So then the question becomes well, how do I Manage to live a life that is uh, You know sustainable that will provide my basic needs and things of that nature if I'm not necessarily in one of those more traditional work settings And so then the question becomes well, is there something around, uh, you know, mandatory? Pensions insurance Are you expecting the government to actually be the safety net for some people talking about a living wage or whatever exactly? I mean, so these are Bigger questions than I can answer But I do say that you're right if people are working say someone coming out of university now They are doing a lot of part-time work. They're doing project work, whatever You'll have to work for 70 years And how much money are they able to put aside? for When uh, you know, perhaps they're not able to work or they're elderly Yeah, um, so these are things that that we're doing a bigger question. Yeah huge and if you're doing a late paid job I mean, you're not going to ever be able to it's tough really. Um, and so There's some thought about smart cities. Is there for instance in the uk? There is a huge concentration of people in london, you know, um, the london bubble, if you will But with technology, is there something to be said about having, um, offshoots? um Of various businesses, perhaps that may actually allow someone to live in some of the areas of the country that are not Uh, Maybe have have as much employment or yeah, yeah Not as expensive to live in right? Um But people of course then from a social perspective, maybe they wouldn't be able to go out and party every night Like they can't in london, but you know, you can't do that. But they'll be doing it online instead on the virtual reality Amazing well, I think it's a great place to end I think we've probably agreed that we can't even imagine what the next five or 10 years is going to look like Yes That is correct Well, thank you again, and thanks for coming on. Yeah, thank you for having awesome. Hey folks. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe in all the usual places