 Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of Veeamon 2022. We're here at the Aria in Las Vegas. This is day two, Dave Vellante with David Nicholson. You know, with CUBE, we talk about the cloud a lot. And the company that started the cloud, AWS, Gina James is here. She's the global alliance manager at AWS and a data protection expert. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE again. Thanks so much for having me, Dave. It's great to be here in person with everyone. Yes, you know, we've done a few events live, more than a handful, thanks a lot to AWS. We've done a number, we did the DC summits. Of course, re-invent was huge out here last year. That was right in between the sort of variant Omicron hitting and it was great, great show. We thought, okay, now we're back. And of course we're kind of back, but we're here and it's good to have you. So Veeam AWS, I mean, they certainly embrace the cloud. What's your relationship there? Yeah, so Veeam is definitely a strong partner with AWS. And as you know, AWS is really a, we have so many different services and our customers and our partners are looking at, how can I leverage those services and how do I back this up, right? Whether they're running things on premises and they wanna put a copy of the data into Amazon S3, Amazon S3 Infrequent Access or Amazon S3 Glacier Deep Archive, all of these different technologies, you know, Veeam supports them to get a copy from on-prem into AWS. But then the great thing is, you know, it's nice to have a copy of your data in the cloud, but you might wanna be able to do something with it once it gets there, right? So Veeam supports things like Amazon EC2 and Amazon EKS and EKS Anywhere. So those customers can actually recover their data directly into Amazon EC2 and EKS Anywhere. So we of course talked a lot about ransomware and that's important in that context of what you just mentioned. What are you seeing with the customers when you talk to them about ransomware? What are they asking AWS to do? Maybe we could start unpacking that a bit. Yeah, ransomware is definitely a huge topic today. We're constantly having that conversation and, you know, five years ago, there was a big malware attack that was called the NotPetya virus. And at that time it was based on Petya, which was a ransomware virus and it was designed to go in and lock in the data, but it also went after the backup data, right? So it would hold all of that data hostage so that people couldn't recover. Well, NotPetya was based on that, but it was worse because it was a seek and destroy virus. So with the ransomware, you can pay a fee and get your data back, but with this NotPetya, it just went in, it propagated itself, it started installing on servers and laptops, anything it could touch and just deleting everything. And at that time, I actually happened to be in the hospital. So hospitals, all types of companies got hit by this attack and my father had been rushed to the emergency room. I happened to be there. So I saw live what really was happening and honestly, these network guys were running around, shutting down laptops, taking them away from doctors and nurses, shutting off desktops, putting like taping on pictures that said do not turn on, right? And then the nurses and staff were having to kind of take notes and it was just, it was a mess. Putting masks on the laptops essentially. Yeah, so that's- Protecting them or trying to, wow. Unplugging things from the network. Yes, because you know, and that attack really demonstrated why you really need a copy of the data in the cloud or somewhere besides tape, right? So what happened at that time is if you lose 10 servers or something, you might be able to recover from tape. But if you lose 100 or 1000 servers and all of your laptops, all in hours, literally a matter of hours, that is a big event is going to take time to recover. And so, you know, if you put a copy of the backup data in Amazon S3 and you can turn on that S3 object lock for immutability, you're able to recover in the cloud. So that, can we go back to this hospital story? Because that takes us inside the disaster potential. So they shut everything down, basically shut down the network so they could figure out what's going on and then fence it off, I presume. So you got, wow. So what happened? First of all, did they get to go manual? They had to do everything manually. It was really, really different experience. Back to the 1970s. It was, and they didn't know really how to do it, right? So they basically had kind of yellow notepads and they would take notes. Well then, let's say the doctor took notes, well then the nurse couldn't read the notes. And even over the PA, you know, there was an announcement it was pretty funny. Don't send down lab work requests with just the last name. We need to know the first name, the last name and the date of birth. There are multiple Joneses in this hospital. So yeah. This is gonna sound weird, but so when I was a kid, when you worked retail, if there was a charge for, you know, let's say $5.74 and they gave you, you know, amount of money, you would give them, you know, the penny back, count up in your head at 75, give them a quarter and then give them the change. Today, of course, it works differently. The computer tells you how much change to give. It's like they didn't know what to do. They didn't know how to do it manually because they never had the manual process. That's exactly right. Some of the nurses and doctors had never done it manually. Well, okay, so then technically they have to figure out what happened. So that takes some time. Yes. However they do that. That's kind of not your job, right? I don't know if you can help with that or not. Maybe Amazon has some tooling to do that, probably does. And then you've got to recover from somewhere, not tape, ideally. That's like the last resort. You put it on a Chevy truck, Chevy truck access method called CTAM, ship it in, that takes days, right, if you're lucky. So what's the ideal recovery? I presume it's a local copy somewhere. So the ideal, it's fenced. In that particular situation, right, they had to really air gap, so they couldn't even recover on those servers and things like that. Because everything was infected on- Because everything was just continuing to propagate. So ideally you would have a copy of your data in AWS and you would turn on Object Lock, which is the immutability, very simple check mark and beam to enable that. And that then you would be able to kick off your restores in Amazon EC2 and start running your business, so. Yeah, this ties into the discussion of the ransomware survey, where not Petia was not seeking to extort money, it was seeking to go in, just simply arrive and destroy. In the ransomware survey, some percentage of clients who paid ransom never got their data back anyway. So you almost have to go into this. Treating percentage. Yeah, like a third. Yeah, when you combine the ones where there was no request for ransom, for any extorted funds, and then the ones where people paid but got nothing back. I know Maersk Lines, the shipping company is a well-studied example of what happened with not Petia. And it's kind of chilling because what you describe people running around, shutting down laptops because they're seeing all of their peers' screens go black. Yes, that's exactly what was happening. And then you're done. So that endpoint is done at that point. So we've seen this, I always say, there are these milestones in attacks. I mean, Stuxnet proved what a nation state could do, and others learned from that. Not Petia, and now SolarWinds, and people are freaking out about that because it's like maybe we haven't seen the last of that because that was highly stealthed, not a lot of Russian language in the malware. They would delete a lot of the malware. So very highly sophisticated, island hopping, self-forming malware. So who knows what's next? We don't know. And so how do you, so you're saying the ideal is to have an air gap that's physically separate. Maybe you can have one locally as well. We've heard about that too. And then you recover from that. What are you seeing in terms of your customers recovering from that? Is it taking minutes, hours, days? So that really depends on the customers' SLAs, right? And so with AWS, we offer multiple tiers of storage classes that provide different SLA recovery times, right? So if you're okay with data taking longer to recover, you can use something like Amazon S3 Glacier Deep Archive. But if it's mission critical data, you probably want to put it in Amazon S3 and turn on that object lock for immutability sake so nothing can be overwritten or deleted. And that way you can kick off your recoveries directly in AWS. One of the demos today that we saw, the recovery was exceedingly fast with a very small data loss. So that's obviously a higher level SLA. You got to get what you pay for. A lot of businesses need that. I think it was like, I think it was, they said four minutes data loss, which is good. I'm glad they didn't say zero data loss because they really know such thing. So you've got experience in the data protection business. How have you seen data protection evolve in the last decade and where do you see it going? Because let's face it, I mean, when AWS started, okay, it had S3, 16 years ago, 16 years ago, whatever it was. Now it's got all these tools as you mentioned. So you've learned, you've innovated along with your customers, you listen to your customers, that's your whole thing, customer obsession. But I'm telling you, what do you see as the future? Definitely, we see more and more containers, containerization, so you'll see with the cast-in by being product, the ability to protect Amazon EKS and Amazon EKS anywhere. We see customers really wanna take advantage of the ability to containerize and not have to do as much management, right? So much of what we call undifferentiated heavy lifting, right? So I think you'll see continued innovation in the area of containerization, serverless computing. Obviously with AWS, we have a lot going on with artificial intelligence and machine learning. And the backup partners, they really have a unique capability in that they do touch a lot of data, right? So I think in the future, things around artificial intelligence and machine learning and data analytics, all of those things could certainly be very applicable for folks like theme. Yeah, we acknowledge that backup is different from recovery, but we often fall prey to making the mistake of saying, oh, well, your data is available in X number of minutes. Well, that's great, what's it available to? Right. So let's say I have backed up to S3 and it's immutable. By the way, my wife keep calling me and saying she wants mutability for me. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not, but now I've got my backup in S3, begs the question, okay, well now what do I do with it? Well, guess what? You mentioned EC2. That's right. So the ability exists to create a restore environment so that not only is the data available, but the services are actually online and available. That's right. Which is what you want. Even with EKS as well. With EKS. So if the customer's running Kubernetes, they're able to recover as well. So yes, definitely I see more and more services like that where customers are able to recover their environment. It might be more than just a server, right? So things are changing. It's not just one, two, three. It's the whole environment. So speaking of the future, one of the last physical CUBE interviews that Andy Jassy did with us, John Ferrier myself, we were asking about the edge and he had a great quote. He said, hey, we look at the data center as just another edge node. I thought that was good classic Andy Jassy depositioning. And so it was brilliant. But nonetheless, we've talked a little bit about the edge. I was interviewing Verizon last week and they told me they're putting outposts everywhere. Like leaning in big time. And I was saying, okay, but outposts, you know, what can you do with outposts today? Hey, I can run RDS. And there was a few ecosystem partners that support it. And he's like, oh no, we're going to push Amazon. So what are you seeing at the edge in terms of data protection? Are customers giving you any feedback at this point? Definitely. So edges is a big deal, right? Because some workloads require that low latency. And things like outposts allow the customers to take advantage of the same API sets that they love in AWS today, like S3, right? For example. So they're able to deploy an outpost and meet some of those specific guidelines that they might have around compliance or various regulations. And then have that same consistent operational stance, whether they're on-prem or in AWS. So we see that as well as the snowball devices, you know, they're being really hardened. So they can run in areas that don't have connected, you know, interfaces to the internet, right? So you've got them running in like ships or, you know, airplanes or a field somewhere out in nowhere built, right? So lots of interesting things going on there. And then of course with IoT and the internet of things and so many different devices out there. We just see a lot of change in the industry and how data is being collected, how data is being created. So a lot of excitement. Well, so the partners are key for outposts, obviously, because you can't do it all yourself. It's almost like, hey, Amazon now in a data center or an edge node, that's like me skating. It's like, hmm, I'm kind of out of my element there. But I think you're learning, right? So the partners are key to be able to support that model. Yes, definitely. Our partners are key. Veeam, of course, supports the outpost. They support the Snowballs, Snowball Edge devices. They do a lot, again, they pay attention to their customers, right? Their customers are moving more and more workloads in the AWS. So what do they do? They start to support those workloads, right? Because the customers also want that consistent, like we say, the consistent APIs with AWS. Well, they also want the consistent data protection strategy with Veeam. Well, the cloud is expanding. It's no longer just a bunch of remote services somewhere out there in the cloud. It's going to data centers. It's going out to the edge. It's going to local zones. You guys just announced a bunch of new local zones. I'm sure there are a lot of outposts in there. Expanding your regions. Super cloud is forming right before our eyes. Gina, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Thank you. It's been great to be here. All right, and thank you for watching theCUBE's coverage. This is day two. We're going all day here. Myself, Dave Nicholson, co-host. Check out siliconangle.com for all the news, thecube.net, wikibon.com. We'll be right back right after this short break.