 Mr. Stink Tech Hawaii, Community Matters here. Welcome to Shrink Wrap Hawaii. My name is Stephen Phillip Katz. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist right here in Honolulu. And I am tickled because I don't remember the last time, even if there was a last time, that I had somebody else who's also a licensed marriage and family therapist. And we're going to have a great time today talking shop. So welcome, Richard Todd Ritz. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. So let's get right down to it. Tell me about yourself, where from? So I'm originally from a small town in southwest Georgia called Bainbridge. And I come from a family of farmers, which is kind of interesting. Most of my family stayed in that path and I decided to venture out. So do you still have family there? I still do. Yes. And why don't you sound like Jimmy Carter? Well, that's funny because my mom used to say, oh, well, you never sounded like us. So I was the very unique child that kind of was that stuck out. So but then I also moved to Atlanta after living in southwest Georgia for about 19 years. So kind of after high school. Yeah. Went to college up there at Georgia State University. And then from there, I did just study psychology. I didn't actually. I actually study journalism for the focus in public relations. And so around that time, it was about 9-11 happened. So job market was pretty, pretty rough about that time. So I stopped doing that for a while and I actually got connected to my mentor, Dr. Lynn Hammond Gray, and she was a spiritual counselor. And that's how I got into the field of psychology. So what do you mean when you say spiritual counselor? So she was more youngy and she would focus more like on archetypes. Oh, like Carl Jung. Yeah, Carl Jung, yes. So explain what do you mean by archetypes? So archetypes are maybe these individuals are these not, I guess not idols, but somewhat something that we feel connected to and we can build upon a story. Like for me, I'm all about the hero's journey. And I think the hero's journey is amazing. And that was by Joseph Campbell. One of the things that I find comfort in is comic books, and I know comic books are So I'm just thinking Superman. Yeah, Superman or Wonder Woman, I think. So those are archetypes. Yeah, totally. So symbols for us. Symbols for us, yeah, totally. All right, so what came after that? So after I worked with her, I worked with couples and I worked with families, doing spiritual counseling, doing experiential stuff, I then decided that I wanted to get back to school. So I got a master's in organizational psychology. Oh. Yep. And was that there? That was there, yeah. And it was just not the direction I wanted to go. There was something else that I wanted. So that's like working with companies, people with companies? Working with companies, doing assessments with companies, but it just wasn't what I was feeling. There was something else I was looking for. So I moved here in about 2009. No. People have particular reason why they come to Hawaii. I mean, it's not like you just get on the bus. Why Hawaii? I felt like I needed to break away from my family. You went as far as you can go and still be in America. I was only four hours away when I was living in Atlanta and I just felt like I, I felt like I was giving too much of myself to my family. I was taking care of my mom and my dad at the time. My dad had a stroke and left him completely paralyzed on his left side. I was still, I was still like working and paying for their bills and everything, but it was just, it was, it was tremendous for me. It was too much for me. Why you were taking care of them? Yeah. I became the prentified child, you know, as they say. How old were you then? I was about 30 years old when that happened. And you were the only child? Yes. Only child. Wow. So I wanted to get as far away as, like you said. So I thought Hawaii would be an ideal place. Had you ever been here before? Never. Did you know people here? No. I just decided that I had a call to adventure as Joseph Campbell would say. Really? So you came here knowing nobody? Knowing no one. No. People that do that amaze me. Really? You just said, oh, I'm going to go to Hawaii and see what happens. Yep. Yeah. And it turned out to be a tremendous experience. Like I love it here. It's just, to me, this is home. What did you do when you got off the plane? When I got off the plane, I sought people out. And I just sort of like let the universe kind of guide me towards whomever or whomever would guide themselves to me, you know, and just kind of go with the flow of things. And I'd actually been talking to Argosy University while I was in Georgia. Ah, okay. So this is where this comes in. So you had a plan to go to school maybe? Yes. I had a plan to go to school. I was looking at the Marriage and Family Therapy program because I felt like that was calling me for some reason after the organizational psychology masters. And I felt like I needed to work on some family issues. I was kind of concerned that I was too amashed with my family. Uh-huh. Yeah, especially after taking care of them. Yeah, totally. So I visited Argosy University. I told them I need a break. I wasn't ready to get back into another program again. They hounded me to come into the program. But I'm so glad I did because it changed my life. In what way? It made me see the patterns of my family and how those patterns affect me as an individual coming from this side of the family and that side, maternal and paternal. And for Marriage and Family Therapists, you know about the genograms. So the genogram was probably the most prominent thing. For those that don't know, it's like a family tree. And going through that and seeing substance abuse and mental illness in my family and seeing the relational patterns, that had an impact on me. And it made me just want to continue more and more into the Marriage and Family Therapy program there at Argosy. So when you're working with clients, I mean I was taught how to do that in school, genogram. But I have a hard time like asking the client to make one or either there in the office or for homework. Do you do that often? I do it all the time. Do you do it right there in the office? Yep. You do it. So you help them make it? You show them how? I go back three generations. We talk about the family history. We talk about was there any type of relational issues between this uncle, that auntie, grandpa, grandma, whomever, and we just dig right on in there. And I say, well, tell me how that affects you as an individual knowing that this was your family history. And that can be very eye-opening for someone. Yeah. Yeah. It surprises me because you figure they know this stuff already. Why should it be so, why should it be a revelation? They already knew this, right? They did, but they probably didn't go as much into detail as I do. Like I go for the hard-hitting questions and I'm like, oh, wow. Especially when I do it with couples, I separate the couples in individual sessions and then bring the couples back. And then I'm like, oh, so you married your mother. Oh, you've been dating your father this whole time. So it's very interesting with family systems. And I think that was one of the reasons why I love marriage and family therapy so much is we do focus on the family system and how it has an effect on the individual. It's pretty amazing. So, yeah, I work a lot with couples, too. Do you have a particular pattern like when you first meet a couple, do you see them together first or do you first meet each one separately? I see them together first and then I separate them for three sessions. And that's just to build a relationship with them. You separate them for three sessions. Three sessions. So you have three sessions with each? Three sessions individually. With each one. Three sessions with the guy, whoever, the couple. Because what I'm doing is I'm trying to build that therapeutic bond with them objectively, I guess you would say, because I don't want either one of them to think that I'm aligning with the other one, because that would be, yeah, it's very important. Yeah, and it happens anyway, doesn't it? I have to check in with myself because if I do align, I feel like I'm unbalanced in seeing the relationship. No, I don't mean that you are actually aligning, but that somebody thinks you are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have to make my boundaries very clear with them in the beginning, that there may come a time where you feel like I'm aligning with you, but I'm actually trying to unbalance the relationship to create different patterns here. So you're intentionally taking sides for a certain period of time. Yes. Right. Yeah, it's a ticklish thing to do. It is. You could get somebody really angry. The dance, I tell you. It's a dance. Right. So how do you handle this one? In terms of, you know, in the beginning when you first see them, they either sign a piece of paper or you tell them or in my case, I do both about confidentiality, right? Like everything you say here is confidential. There's certain exceptions, you know, if you say you're going to kill yourself with somebody else, blah, blah, blah, blah. How do you handle the confidentiality? So if you're seeing a couple, do you tell them ahead of time that in the individual sessions, you'll maintain confidentiality? So a guy tells you, yeah, please don't tell my wife, but, you know, I'm seeing somebody else on the side. What do you do about that? And do you talk about that ahead of time in case that comes up? I see that's going to eventually have to come up in therapy. And that's one of the things I will say. Okay, I'm going to do a little role play with you here. I love role play. But I'm sorry, but that can't, because that would be the end of it. She'd leave me. And I really don't want her to leave me. Okay. So what is the purpose of having this affair? I love this other woman. Call her Joy. She's my Joy. But if you're coming to couples therapy, wouldn't you want to work on the relationship that you're in currently? Yeah, I do. Yeah? Yeah, but that's separate. Perhaps maybe we should bring the other woman into the therapy session and have a discussion with her and your wife. But my wife doesn't know, and I don't want her to know, because she'll leave me. She said if I ever did that, she would leave me. It doesn't seem fair to your wife. It's true. There was a commitment that was made there. It's true. So that's how I guess I would handle it. It's a very touchy subject. Do you talk about that ahead of time? I do. I tell the couple that eventually things will come up in the joint session. So whatever you say here, we're going to talk about it and we'll get through it. But eventually you're going to have to address it. Yeah, so I mean, I had something like that happen, not a cheating thing, but somebody told me that it was very interesting. It was like an accident, but maybe it really wasn't an accident. This was a couple session, and the guy showed up and he said, you know, my wife got married because I got the times wrong, and when I told her it's really at this time and not that time, she said, oh, I'm not going. But afterwards, it seemed to me that it was semi-intentional, of course he told me a couple of things that he wasn't ready to tell her yet. And I think he needed that separate session to process this and everything. But now, and of course, as he's leaving the session, he says, now don't tell her. And it's interesting because it's not like he's seeing somebody else, but it's about something that happened, two different things that happened between them that he's not ready to discuss in front of her. So it's tricky. I mean, I feel like you do that, secrets, well, I don't know if you feel like this, but I have a hunch, secrets in a relationship are toxic. They are. Right? Yeah. And so eventually, I think it's my job to help him get to the point where he's comfortable talking about it with her in front of me. And then also to piggyback on that, Steve, I think that, you know, it takes two to tango in a relationship. So there was something that maybe she wasn't doing in the relationship that led him to go in that direction. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I'm not even talking about a cheating thing. Yeah. Right. I'm talking about, you know, I don't want to get too specific. Yeah, yeah. I can't violate confidentiality. Right. So I just got a little whisper in my ear. Are we ready to take a break now? You can talk to me again. We are ready to take a break. Don't touch the mouse. We'll be right back with Todd Rantz, LMFT, and me. Bye-bye. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. Greetings. This is me, Angus McTech, the longtime host and star of Hibachi Talk. Think Tech is important to our community because we bring all kinds of cool ideas and I bring gadgets to the show. So you got to watch it for sure. But for the first time, Think Tech Hawaii is participating in an online web-based fundraising campaign that raised $40,000. Give thanks to Think Tech. We'll run only during the month of November and you can help. Please donate what you can that Think Tech in Hawaii can continue to be public awareness and promote civic engagement through free programming like mine and I'm a charge. I've already made my donation and it's really hard to get this customer to make a donation, but I already did. Please send in your tax-deductible contribution by going to this website. It's for to thinktech.cosbox.com. Say that three times fast. Closing on behalf of the community enriched by Think Tech, Hawaii's 30-plus weekly shows. Thank you and we're mahalo for watching Think Tech and your generosity. Let your wing gang free, wherever you be, aloha! So welcome back, Todd. Welcome back me. Welcome back you. You said to me off the air that you have a certain way that you work typically with a client. Yes. I'd like you to show us right better than telling us showing is always better than telling you. Okay. All right. So I come in and I say, you know, I work in an office, I work for the state, I've been working there for 23 years, you know, I'm divorced, my kids have grown, they're doing okay, sort of. I can't, I feel stuck. The people at work, I really think they can't stand me and they make that clear. I actually got a demotion in my job because they think I take too long doing things. I really don't know what their problem is. It seems like they have two sets of rules, like one for them and one for me. I started a relationship with somebody and then she wouldn't see me anymore because she said I have too much stuff. It's true. Like I have a, what do you call it, storage unit. I had it for 10 years. It's full. I haven't opened it in 10 years, but I'm paying like almost $300 a month for it. And I never look at it, but I can't let it go. The landlord came and said he thinks it's health hazard because there's no room in my house. There's boxes. There's boxes all over the place. And I'm just stuck and this woman, I kind of liked her. And I don't know, she said she just left because she said there's like, she was even thinking of staying over and she said there's no room for me. And that was it. So like basically I don't see her. And I just keep going back to other relationships I had like 30 years ago when I was in school and after that. I don't seem to be going anywhere and I think I'm kind of depressed and I have a lot of anxiety. Oh, okay. Thank you for sharing. I appreciate that. So the direction I would go is like, so if you were to wake up the next morning and things have changed, what would that look like for you? Oh, my stuff. It's even hard for me to say it, but like, it'll be gone. But see, I don't know where to start getting rid of it because I have got thousands, maybe 100,000 pictures. It's like, I get emotional just talking about it. You know, to go through them, to decide what to keep, what to throw away. I keep saying, oh, I'm going to scan them, but I don't. So yeah, so I wouldn't have all this stuff and I would be living with somebody and we would be happy. And I'd quit my job and I'd be doing something I love. Okay. Okay. So this is a good start. Very good start. It sounds like you've already like made the effort to see things future forward. So that's definitely a good start. It's like saying, yeah, I'd like to be a millionaire too, but. Every step at a time, you know. But let's talk about that problem saturated narrative that you got going on there. That would be where I would want to start. Oh yeah, it's saturated. Yeah. Sounds like it. It's almost saturated. And let's start to rebuild that narrative. What do you mean? In a different direction. Let's create a new narrative for you because it sounds like that's what you're wanting. You want to make a change in your life. Right. Let's start with the relationship that you have with depression and anxiety. Yeah. Who told you that you had depression and anxiety? Nobody told me. Oh. So it's something that you've diagnosed as yourself, for yourself. Well, I'm not happy. Okay. Isn't that what it means to be depressed? Could be. But what kind of relationship are you having with depression? And how often is it visiting you? It doesn't visit. It lives here. Oh, it does. It's pretty much, with some exceptions, pretty much all the time. All the time. You know, low level. I mean, I'm not going to kill myself. I don't feel like I want to kill myself. But it's just like, I just don't get excited about things. You know? When was the last time you were excited about something? Can't even remember. Okay. So, where I would like to go with you is I would like to go through your family history. I want to know what kind of relationships you had in your past, where these visits from depression seem to come from. So this is where I like to look at the system rather than the symptom, because apparently it's, there's obviously somewhere it came from, right? Did it come from the maternal side of your family or did it come from the paternal side of your family? Oh, they were fine. Oh, they were fine? My parents, you mean? Yeah. They were okay. I had a pretty good childhood. I went to private school, I went to college, went to law school. Oh, fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can't blame them for anything. Okay. So what do you think you went wrong? Or what path did you take that made you say, oh, I'm depressed or hello, hello, depression? It's just hard for me to, like, I'm okay getting to meet people right in the beginning. But then it just kind of stops. With stopping you? I don't know. People seem to get frustrated with me, like the people at work, you know? I mean, I've traveled around a lot, you know, and like basically I think a lot of those people are, I don't know, they're very limited, right? They grew up here, they never leave here. I've traveled around and I think it makes a big difference when you've traveled around some. I mean, I'm not saying I'm better than them, but it's just different. Yeah. Right? It sounds like you've got to work on the relationship you have with yourself before you can have healthy relationships with other people. What do you mean? I have a relationship with myself. Relationship with yourself. Take myself to the movies. Yeah. It wouldn't be a bad idea, but it needs to love yourself and start to. Yeah, I don't really love myself. I'm kind of sick and tired of myself. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not happy with myself. I don't think I'm the kind of stuck. There was obviously a place where that happened. There had to have been a moment or... Yeah, you know, I don't really think anybody really cared. Who's they? Well, my dad was busy. He was working all the time. That's what people did back then, right? The 50s, right? Right. And I think my mom was kind of, I don't know what she was, but she didn't really seem there. What was their relationship like? They were married forever. They were big Christians, and that was what you did. And brothers and sisters? Yeah, I got a brother he's pretty much a moron. Oh. Younger or older? He's younger than a couple years younger. He's the older child. I must have a lot of responsibility on your plate back in the day. For me? Yeah. I just, you know, my job was to go to school, do all right, not bother anybody. So I did that. And your relationship with your parents? Nothing special. Do they have high expectations of you? No, what's high? What does that mean? Do they put you on a pedestal or...? No. Did they...? Because you went to law school, so that's pretty hefty to have that. It was okay. Yeah. So you really pushed yourself at one point. I did what I had to do. You know, I did all right. Did they show pride in your activities? I don't think that was a cultural thing that people did. Oh, okay. You know, it was just kind of, congratulations. Here's a card. They didn't make a big deal about things. That's just not the way they were. They expected people to work hard. They worked hard, so they figured everybody should work hard. So I worked hard. Yeah. It was pretty heavy to work hard all the time and not have time to yourself. Well, that's why I used to take a lot of pictures. I used to do a lot of photography. Is that the stuff you were talking about? Well, yeah, that's maybe 100,000 pictures sitting around in boxes. You know, I could look at it and I could tell you what I was doing there. And I collect albums, like old 33s. It's nice to have the actual physical thing. You can look back and sort of figure out what you were doing when that album came out. That's why I don't want to throw this stuff away. Because I like doing that. I would be interested in looking at those pictures with you and knowing a little bit about your history and how those pictures matter so much to you. Really? I could bring those in? Yeah, I would love to. I would love to see those pictures. Really? Yeah, totally. Wow, that would be nice. Oh, but then I got to go through them. That's a trick! Okay. Hey, we're on this journey together, right? That's definitely what you... When you're working with a therapist, that's what you expect. That's the journey with you together. So, coming out of this role, you mentioned the archetype thing, right? The Jungian stuff. How would you work with a guy like that? With that? I would explore those... I don't want to say idols, because I think idols is such a bad word in some ways. Symbols? Symbols. Symbols that they see themselves as. Maybe there's like this... Maybe favorite movies, favorite TV shows. People they see themselves closely related to in some ways. Yeah. Oh, that would be interesting. So, like, if you had your own TV show, what would it be? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's cool. Yeah. I really like the way, though, that you asked him, me, to bring the pictures in, because that made me feel like it was something special, rather than it was just some crap I should throw away. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Because they are special. The client is special. I think sometimes we're always looking to just, you know, some therapist, not me, but I think some therapists just want client retention. And I want to see transformation. And I hope they see transformation. Right. You felt good, like you weren't trying to fix me. Yeah. But you were just trying to ennoble. Yeah. That's what it felt like. Yeah. Like, that's pretty cool. Thank you. I'm going to use that. Oh. Okay. I'll be writing my book now, and I'll be doing seminars. Yeah. All right. So, stay tuned. It's time for us to wrap up, but he's going to be writing his book. Look for the new Rensian method coming out into a bookstore near you soon. And thank you for joining us. Thank you, Todd Rens, for joining us. It was such a pleasure. Yes. Hawaii. And check in next time. Aloha.