 Hello, and welcome to the live streamer backstage podcast. I'm Alec Johnson, and this is a weekly show where I interview fellow live streamers to understand how they are using live streaming as a tool in their business and to discover the tech, the gear and the software that they use to produce great live shows. My guest today is Keith Palza. If you've spent any time in the Ecom live community, you must surely be aware of Keith. And if you're like me, you've also been in awe of his live streaming setup. And if you're following on Instagram, you'll also know that he happens to be an outstanding photographer and you may not be aware that he's also a Grammy award-winning musician and producer. In short, he is a true creative artist. Now, people often talk about live streamers and content creators getting what we call gas, which is gear acquisition syndrome. And this is often meant in the context of people chasing the next shiny bit of tech to add to their studios, or perhaps worse, not making a start until they have all of the latest gear. And oftentimes this is driven more by a want than a need. Now, while I'm sure that looking at Keith's multi-camera exquisitely lit setup, you could be caused to have a gas. What I love about Keith is the fact that everything he has done in his studio has been done with a very clear purpose and indeed it is all used to great effect. He's also very clear when talking to others about that line between the want and the need. There's so much that I wanna talk with Keith about how his background as a musician and photographer have influenced his live streaming, how he has used live streaming to serve his community as a pastor because he's also a man of God. And of course, the evolution of his amazing studio space is definitely something that I wanna touch on as well. So I'm really looking forward to the conversation. So without further ado, let's welcome Keith Pelzer. Hey, Keith, how are you doing today? What is going on? Nothing much, man. I'm honored to be on this show with you, man. You are the man. Oh, thank you. It's so great to have you here. You've been an inspiration to me when I've seen that. You're looking at your studio space when I've been sort of planning out what I wanna do with mine. I'm kind of just always aiming towards Keith. No, I like what you're doing there. I love it. I really love it. Thanks so much. So I always like to start with just getting a bit of a sort of more of a background and kind of like your origin story, if you like, of how you got into live streaming and maybe talk a little bit about your history and how that has all influenced it. So tell us a little bit more about yourself. Wow, live streaming, I got into it because by way of being a pastor and having a church. So then you have a church and before COVID, of course, you know, you go into the church, you go into the pulpit, we were live streaming, but you know, it's kind of like you just do what you're doing in the room and there's cameras pointing at you. And so, you know, you didn't really take notice of unless you're like Joel Osteen, TV Jake, somebody, you know, you're like, hey, I'm to my live audience. It was just pretty much for people who couldn't make it in because you were just doing it. Next thing you know, COVID hits, you can't come into sanctuary, but you have to reach everybody. And so the producer engineer, I've been with music and a little bit into photography, I didn't want bad quality and Facebook look terrible from the phone. Then, you know, I tried the cameras that we had at church and I'm like, eh, it's not working. And so then I kind of got into looking on YouTube and research, you know, well, how does this guy look good? How does that lady look good? And then I start reaching and finding, you know, what programs I was on, OBS, I'm a Mac guy, so Vmix didn't work. Next thing you know, I end up discovering Diana Glatney and then I got into Ecamm. And then I kind of met that family and I realized, hey, I look the best with Ecamm. So then I just doubled down on the cameras, figured out how to stream and that's how I pretty much got into it. It's quite a revelation when we find Ecamm. Everyone has that moment where they discover it for the first time and think, wow, this is something different. And so what sort of stage was that during lockdown? You know, when did you actually start doing that and how long have you been doing that for now? Well, so sermons, the sermons were easy because you kind of do what you do on Sundays for the congregation, but you just got to get that camera. And so then I was doing green screen. I went through that whole process to learn how to light the green screen and I had the ghosts following you in the back, getting the lighting right, getting the right background. And then I started using the PowerPoints and then upon discovering Ecamm, you could figure out I can do everything in here and I can change the, you know, buy two cameras and I was using a GoPro and then I got more Sony cameras and then it just turned into, hey, let me get into like a video podcast and then I just started going live and then I started explaining equipment because everybody else is like, well, how'd you do that? And so that's when it kind of turned into a thing that I just called it the combos because while we were trying to figure everything out, I was just jumping online, talking to people, meeting people and introducing people to people, connecting with people and it just turned into a talk show that wasn't really a talk show and then it was also, how are you doing that? Why are you trying to do a talk show? So I try to separate the two and just blab every morning, making coffee and then I would show people how to use the stuff that I got and put together. And so how was it sort of received by the church then? So when you first started, I mean, I'm guessing I know the answer like people being blown away but what was the uptake from other people as well? They loved it. The only crazy thing is my congregation, they kind of knew that I go to a level of excellency where it's like, I may play the keyboard when I used to play at church and I'll get like a better keyboard and I'm like, oh, that sounds great, didn't it? And it's like, you always sound good. So they didn't really notice like the quality difference between the GoPro looking like a fishbowl and then a Sony A5100 with a kit lens that looks more crisp and everything. So it was more so other leaders that were like, dude, you look great. And so I'll drop a nugget on you Alec. So I had this little motto, I would say people hear about what they see. And so what that meant was you could say a lot but if they can't really see you well at that time in the pandemic, nobody was really gonna pay attention. And so I believe that podcast is still ahead of video, but as shout out to you with your podcast, your prioritization on the audio, the podcast, I still believe in that. But for a certain period of time, if you didn't look a certain way, people weren't really giving you the time. And so I really doubled down on it. And so it was received well by leaders more so than people because leaders were like, I need to get there because I'm not winning the battle. Yeah, it's funny, I find something similar that the people who reach out to me are often like coaches and people who are using, they see the tools that we've got and you can see how it can apply to what they're, their message that they're trying to get out. And how long would you say that then it took you to sort of like evolve the studio space? I mean, we'll talk more about the studio in depth later, but I mean, just it's, I know that everyone's studio is always an evolution, but yeah, what was the sort of process of you? Were you like, right, I've got to get on this and I'll just set everything up or how did you go about it? Well, it is something I would, I got this acronym together, clear, C-L-E-A-R, C for camera, L lights, E for E cam, A for audio and R is recording. And so either recording audio or recording a video or both, but when you put all those together, the camera, that went from the phone to the iPad, to the webcam, to a mirrorless camera to figuring out the cam links to argue with people over the $20 cam link type version knockoff or the expensive one. And then it goes into the Mac that can handle it. And then it goes into the lighting. So then I studied three point lighting to figure out, how do you look a certain way in the room? Of course, you and I, we know about the green screen. And then it's like, all right, after you get finished with the green screen, you're like, I don't feel like doing this all the time. I just want to turn the camera on. You can see the plants, the traffic moving out my window, whatever it is. And that went from Neewer to Godox to Aperture, if that makes sense. It went from phone to GoPro to Sony mirrorless. It went from kit lens to Sigma lens. You know, and so that was over the course of, while COVID was unpacking on us, and we're trying to figure it out. I'm in the house, so I just kept doubling down. And that went from Best Buy to B&H. Right. You know, and so, you know, you're just in and then I'm putting back all my recording skills. I'm kind of cheating and going from just a microphone into the computer USB to, I already had my Apollo. So I just kind of threw all that together because Ecann was able to just, oh, let's throw it all in there. And I would throw it all in there and I was kind of cheating. And then I'll just forget how to put it all together. And that's been two to three years in a making. And with the equipment, so from the cameras standpoint, I mean, I mentioned in the intro that, I mean, your photography is just like on such a high level. I really love all the stuff that I see you posting on Instagram. Is that something that you've been into for, you know, you've got years of experience in photography, or has that has been something that's come out of the, you know, all the gear that you're getting for the live streaming? Where did that sort of come in? Because it's amazing. You hit it on the money. It's because, so the crazy thing is, is I have a bunch of APS-C cameras. So every camera that you see in here, and I've sent you pictures of, they're all APS-Cs. What I did was I jumped and I grabbed an A7-C, which is a full frame. And I got it because you know what we're doing here, like you say, gear acquisition syndrome. It's like, oh, Alex got a new mic. And it's like, he has the X, so you're gonna get the X one. You know, you got a one upper, you got to get the same thing. He's got the green, I'm gonna get the blue. And it's kind of like iron sharpens, iron cool competition. But then it's like, you know, I went to the top of the APS-C, which is the A6600. And I'm like, the A61, A66, A5100, and live streaming, tomato, tomato, you know, Sigma lens, I can make a kit lens look just as good with the right lighting, tomato, tomato. So then I'm like, what is a full frame? And it's like, oh, a full frame is better. I bought a full frame and I'm like, it doesn't really make my live stream look any better. So I'm like, I got to put it to use. So I started taking pictures with it and it's looking better. And so once the pictures started looking better, I said, hey, I'm getting to photography. And I got into it and I just went all out and got a G-Master 7200. And I got the Sigma 2470 first. I figured out how to work the camera and then I went to the next level and that's all she wrote. Well, it's just, I mean, you've got such a, I mean, you're obviously a naturally creative person, but you've got such a creative flair for photography. I just love seeing all of your Instagram posts. It's awesome. And that obviously must, you know, feed back into everything that you're learning for or have learned from live streaming as well. So it's, yes, it looks awesome. Do you want to talk a little bit about, like your background as a musician as well and how has that sort of fed in? Because obviously you've got a deep understanding of audio and what sort of have you taken from that to bring into live streaming? And maybe what is that, you know, didn't translate or something that you still had to learn from an audio perspective with live streaming that you didn't necessarily bring over from the musical background. Oh, okay. So with the music, I literally, I was still trying to produce. I was still making songs. And so I started recording how I was making music. And I was doing that in Ecamm because it was like a way to do recording. And because I had the multiple cameras to kind of show off talking, I started pointing at the keyboard and making songs and tracks and everything. And also live streaming because people want music, I was able to make my own music because the clearances and the copyrights was doing too much. So I'm like, if I play my own stuff, I can't really get flagged the same way. And so I just started making my own stuff and putting it out there. And that kind of just, one thing just led to the next. And you know, I was cheating because I was actually using a condenser mic. So these mics that you and I have and then the SM7B, the MV7s, these mics are great. And that's all you need for live streaming. You can do so much other audio process and then make it sound great. And, but I have this expensive condenser recording mic. It's like about $2,000. It's not super expensive, but it's $2,000. You don't need that for live streaming. And I had that for vocal quality, vocal recording. And I was using that for a while until, and I'll keep some people nameless, people aggravated me because they didn't understand quality. And they were like, oh, you don't have an SM7B. I'm like, you don't know what real audio is like, dude, I'm a Grammy award when a recording engineer like, dude, okay. So I got the SM7B just to see, let me make this sound better than everybody else's. Let me make the MV7 sound a little different or better than somebody else's. And I figured it out. And then I put the condenser mic back in the coffin and threw it in the closet until I went to record some more vocals. And that's just pretty much it. And I was just intertwining and doing some funny stuff and then trying to upgrade or level up on my sermons on Sundays. And like you who is the master of the stream deck and all of that stuff, I was figuring out how to push buttons and have the sermon text fly over the screen and everything and everybody's like, dude, how are you doing that? So I just intermingled everything that I knew and just dumped it all into the stream. I'm still laughing at someone trying to school you on audio. It's quite funny. It happened, it happened because that's all everybody knew. So everybody literally became equals until you figured out everyone's background until you really seen it happen. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's, you know, when we have people in like the ECAM community and you said before about the community and I mentioned it in the intro, it is just such a warm welcoming environment for everyone's there to sort of help one another and learn and grow together. But we all have this little sort of glimpse of each other, you know, of what we're doing from a live streaming perspective and then you don't necessarily always appreciate, you know, all the history and the skills that people are bringing to this. And one of the things that Alicia Wei was talking about last week is this thing of skill stacking. You know, actually you're bringing to the table like all of your sort of past experience and adding that all into the mix. I'm always really interested to understand, you know, what that background is and, you know, how that's influencing, you know, what you're doing. So it's really sort of interesting to hear about that side of stuff. I just want to take a moment to talk about ECAM Live. This is the live production Mac software that we're using to live stream and record this podcast. In my opinion, it is the best live streaming and recording software on the market to date. So what exactly does it do? Well, essentially it allows you to control the content that you're including in your video, be it a live stream or a recorded video. And you do this by building out different scenes that contain the content that you want to show. This content may be a feed from your camera or indeed multiple cameras, or you may be sharing a screen, which is what I do a lot of in my tutorial style videos that I make for my Take One Tech YouTube channel. You can share the screen from a second computer or maybe even a gaming console if you are a live streaming gamer. And just as we are doing in this podcast, you can also bring in guests using ECAM Live's built-in interview mode where guests can join from a browser and you can then incorporate their video and audio into your production. Finally, you can add all kinds of additional graphical and animated overlay elements and even movies to really add a level of branded professionalism that would be hard to achieve in any other way. The real magic happens though when you hit that record or go live button because then you are able to seamlessly switch back and forth between all of the scenes that you've created. And indeed, this is how all of the videos have been created for my Take One Tech YouTube channel. And the reason it's called Take One Tech by the way is because all of the videos are made in one take with no edits. I just hit record, make the video and as soon as I hit the end recording button, the file is there and ready to be uploaded straight to YouTube. What I love about ECAM is not just the ease of use that it has when compared to other live streaming software but also the greater flexibility it gives in terms of layouts and designs that you can create for your shows when compared to some of the hardware streaming solutions. And one thing that makes ECAM great specifically for podcasts is the fact that it has the ability to record isolated audio tracks. So once we finish recording this podcast, I'll have a separate audio file for me, my guests and any other audio tracks that have been a part of the recording. That makes the editing and repurposing of the content for the podcast so much more streamlined. It does have another little trick up its sleeve though and that is its virtual camera feature. This allows you to take the video output from ECAM live straight into communication apps like Zoom, Microsoft Teams, Discord and so on. This means that rather than just appearing in Zoom meetings with a regular camera feed, you can now show up with all of the amazing production values that ECAM live gives you and deliver that straight into your Zoom meeting. And trust me, when you rock up to a Zoom meeting with ECAM, the other participants will be truly amazed. So whether for live streaming, recorded video content or to level up your Zoom game, I highly recommend that you give ECAM live a go. You can get a free trial by going to takeonetech.io slash ecam, that's E-C-A-M and of course you can find a link to that in the show notes as well. You will certainly not regret giving it a go. Now let's get back to the show. And I know you do stuff for other clients. So what sort of client work do you do in terms of live streaming? Is this something that you offer as a service to help other people as well or? So what I do is, so I put the room together. So I'm an innovative thinker or I think past what something does for me because it's just in me to help other people. And so what I did was I start to envision how can I make your show better or how can I help the person that's not gonna do like you and I and sit in front the computer? And so what ended up happening was I just said, hey, what'll happen if I want four people in the room? And so like some of the pictures that I sent you, you know, there's a sofa sitting behind me. So I'm like, okay, my wife and I one night we're just, you know, farting around chilling in the basement and I went live and I drug a mic over to her. And I said, what if I just put a mic over there? And so then I put two mics next to the chair over there on the small tables so that anybody that walks in the room and sits down, I can start having a conversation with them and record that conversation, which is basically what a podcast is all about. So some of the clients, one show, her name is Dr. Virgil Jackson, the flip side of adversity, I was on her show and I said something to her audience. I said, you have to protect your yes. In other words, you have to reserve that yes because and I heard someone else say this, yes is like a currency. So when you say yes, you put it out there and you have to make good on that currency. And if you give too many away when your opportunity comes, you won't have it. And so what I've done was somebody who has their platform together but they're missing that audio video element, I'm going to be able to do that, like a recording studio would do for artists that didn't have their own studio. And so people started coming to me say, hey, I'd rather just pay you and come into your studio and go live to my platform rather than try to build it in my own space because now I'm Ellen DeGeneres, I'm Oprah Winfrey. I'm Dr. Phil. I can just walk in, sit down and do the show and leave. I'm Jimmy Fallon now. So I don't need to build this in my house. I can leave home, come into the studio, do the work and roll out. And basically I've done iterations based off of how people interact. And so I learned the whole thing of the Desviews, the Glide gear, incorporating that from what a newscaster does. Cause people have material and they're like, trying to memorize it and all of them like, hey, let's put on a teleprompter and then understanding how you can see yourself and talk directly into the camera and see what everybody else is seeing. All of that just came from doing it for myself and then also seeing how it would help other people and solve their problems. You mentioned teleprompters. I mean, I'm using the one that you recommended. I remember watching your video and thinking, I need that. That was one thing that, but again, they're talking about the gas. It was definitely a need rather than like a want. So I'm using the exact one that you recommended to me. And yeah, it's been great. I've been using it for a year or more now and it really does help. I don't tend to read off it as such, but for the confidence monitor to be able to see what's going out and have the eye contact, it makes such a huge difference. And certainly anyone I've spoken to on Zoom has appreciated me looking at them rather than looking off to the side or whatever. Right, right. Yeah, I don't, it's amazing because the glide gears, most of my clients use it more than I do. So it was very rare that, you know, I'll just sit there and, you know, hey, I'm gonna use the glide gear and talk into it. I'd normally just stay in that one spot and look forward and, you know, and it's small enough that I can see it, you know, because I don't really need it to read everything and I kind of can manage my eyes to look at the screen a little bit, you know. But the clients use it, you know, they use it more so than I do. And so I literally could take them off the desk, but I'm like, nah, I'll leave them there because I'm gonna need them. Yeah, it does make a big difference just to even be able to see what's going out. I think for, you know, for the, I guess that's why they call it the confidence monitor, but for people who are unfamiliar with, you know, filming to be able to look at themself as well, it sort of definitely helps from that standpoint. Now, with the studio setup, I mean, you mentioned there about having the different things and the different, you know, positions that people can be in different camera angles and all that kind of stuff. How many cameras are you up to at the moment? What's the camera count today? You know what? The camera count is seven, but I literally only use three at the most. The seven cameras came as a result of seeing how much I could do. And then it got to, okay, now I'm gonna figure out why the cameras freeze, you know? And then I'm just gonna figure it out, but I'm not doing it because I need seven cameras. I'm doing it because it's fun. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and then I was just trying to, you know, tick everybody off with the eight to many and say, oh, I can hack, you know, I can hack the eight to many thing in e-cam. And then it just ended up being like, you end up getting on people's live or you go live and you realize I'm sitting in one spot and the one camera is doing more than enough and I may show an overhead or I may show a beside me, but other than that, it's like just flipping the screen around just starts to get like, okay, I'm just doing it because I'm having fun. You know what I mean? It's like an ATV and you got eight cars but you just scooted around in some dirt and you never use it to go to the supermarket and nothing like that. And so the one main one I use is the jib. So the jib, I use that because that camera, I can set it to explain something and I'll just have this front camera, the jib and maybe a room shot and I'm done. So three cameras is basically at the most what I'll use on a live or an instructional and that's it. I am looking for a way to justify the jib because it does add something to the shots though. From a creative point of view, it looks good, but I certainly don't have a need for it just yet. You can accomplish it with a slider, like a cheap slider or like the lower and Edelkrone slider, because now it's just like, I mean, I've made a use for the jib because I literally use it for people that sit on the sofa behind me. Got you. Actually, it comes in very handy where I can just program it to pan between the two or three people on the sofa and move that shot. But yeah, other than that, it's like, nah, skip it. But you play it down though, but there is like an artistic thing that you've done there with it. So it's not just a, you know, the way that you use it does have artistry to it, I think in certainly the way that you're implementing it. And in terms of the sort of room and the layout and the design that you've got in your studio, is that something that has evolved for the live stream or because it just looks so, it looks such a sort of, I wanna say sort of texturally rich sort of view when we look at your studio, it just looks so, it's got a really nice design sort of aesthetic to it. And how did you go about building that? Was that something that you, you know, you spent a lot of time sort of creating or has that been an evolution as well? It is, it does take time. So I don't really map it out on paper. I'll literally try to function myself in the space that I have. And then as I'm doing it, I'll see something that I wanna do. So when I upgraded the Mac, I had the 2020 Intel iMac fully loaded. Of course, Apple ticks us off because now here's the M1 chip. And I'm like, it's this small Mac mini and you can throw on the desk and everybody's like, Oh, it's 30 times faster than that iMac. And I'm like, okay, so I'm gonna buy in. I get it. And then it's like, okay, there's no screen to it. So then I have to put a wide screen up, a curved monitor, put that up. And I'm like, well, what am I gonna do with the iMac? Well, I put it on a stand up unit. And I needed that because when the clients come in, I use NDI on Ecamm to monitor and do my switching with the stream deck on the second computer, right? And so then, I made cheat and use that to stream and just let the Mac mini sit. And so with that, there's also how if two people were sitting at the desk, that would dictate why I need three cameras on a desk, one for both and one to individualize each person. And then my studio desk is actually from output is called and it's a studio keyboard desk that I had. So when I started live streaming, I jacked it up and stood it up higher to make it more like a countertop height. And the people were like, what made you do that? And I'm like, because when you're streaming, you kind of don't want to be low as a desk because it feels like work from home. So when you put it up, you kind of get more into a newscaster. Like you don't notice newscasters are sitting up. They're not standing, but they're not like as low as a regular desk. And so I literally incorporated that idea and that's how it came about. The next thing is the uniqueness of the background. Once I got delivered from the green screen, I said, hey, how do we just make it look cool when somebody's viewing into your space? And so I use the window behind me and then you put some accent lights in certain places near you and then for the details and when you switch the camera around, you have something to look at. So if I'm doing a room cam, that camera has to show something that's like, oh, that's a nice picture and not necessarily just, oh, that's you from the side. That's you from the back. That's you from the front. It's like, it's not about seeing me. It's kind of like pulling you into my space and making you feel like you're in the room. And the lighting that you've got going on as well, I mean, it does have a sort of really different vibe depending on the way that you've got it set up. And I forget who it was now, that I was watching somebody on their live stream and it was only after a while that I realized, oh, that's been done from Keith's studio because it had a different sort of vibe to it because the lighting was all different. So yeah, it's great that the sort of creative side of creating the creative lighting aspect to it as well, something that I've always been impressed by. Yeah, and you know what? And I gotta say for those who are listening, you have to look at Alex's setup when he goes live because I love the simplicity, but the uniqueness in it, like it stands out. It's not just, like you took a simple approach to your live setup, but it's not a boring, like predictable, simple setup. So everybody can be their own person. You can be a simple person. You can be an eclectic person. You could be a detailed person, a minimalistic person, whatever it is, make it unique and make it make sense, but don't make it so predictable that it's like, oh, you're the same type of clutter person as the other person or you're the same minimalist person as the other one. It's like find your uniqueness. And when you find it, you don't actually have to point out what you did. You can, people will see what you did and they'll see what you're doing and they won't even be able to actually duplicate it. They can grab certain things the same as you got. Like somebody will say to me, oh, what light is that? And they're gonna go get that mic. What mic is that? You know, they're gonna get that same thing, but they're not gonna be able to duplicate exactly what you're doing and how you do it because they'll never understand it because it's organic. The way I did my room is, if nobody could see in my room and you just came over, would you be impressed with the room? Not how it is on camera, but if you just came in the room, how would you feel? So it's basically like, whatever you would do to your living room, do that to your studio. Don't do what everybody else is doing because you don't live like they do. Make it how you live, you know? And then just emphasize that and let the camera do its work. That's a great point because you do see many people just trying to just copy the background and the things that they've got going on in other people's spaces. One of the reasons, by the way, while mine tends to be quite bare, should we say, so they've not got a lot going on, but I just use the light to sort of change the color. But because I use this is my live streaming studio, but it's also my Zoom studio for when I'm doing my business calls and things like that. I actually like to have a plain background for that just so that there's no distraction of what's going on for those type of calls, for me for the kind of stuff that I'm doing. But that's why I went with the sort of plain look, but I'm definitely working in. I love it, but it's a unique plane. For the longest time I used the green screen, the first sort of six months on YouTube because I was in a dedicated studio. I was just down in the back corner of my basement. So that was just all green screen. So I went through that same process as you, starting with the green screen and then felt good to sort of break out of it eventually. And so perhaps we can talk then a little bit about like the actual things that you've got going on there maybe in terms of like lighting and so on you talked about the three point lighting. So what have you done in terms of like adding light to it and you've got a couple of things that are a little bit unique that I'm certainly not doing like with your lighting from above and all that kind of stuff. So what have you got going on in there in terms of your sort of setup? So on the main setup that I use, I just have two aperture, they're the AMRAM version. So, you know, save a little money. They're the 100 X's, you know, bi-color. And that was, I got the bi-color because of clients. I was cool with 56, you know, Calvin, you know, I didn't care, you know, 42, I don't, you know, whatever that is, I don't, I didn't care about the bi-color, right? I just kind of used the color lights behind me to do it and just boom, here's light. So clients were coming to go, oh, I need it softer and I'm like, oh Lord. So I said, let me get a bi-color light to, you know, change the tone of it. And so then I saw how soft boxes work and then I put the grid over top of it to focus the light. So it's not just super bright. And then I got kind of like from DSLR Shooter on YouTube. I liked how he had that. Yeah, I liked how Caleb, I think his name is. I like how he had that soft look. And so I grabbed that. And then I also love Tom Bucks, you know, bright look. Like, you know, so I'm like, let me find me looking at these two guys. And that's where, you know, in the pictures there and for those of you can see, it's the overhead light. You kind of knew there was the overhead light you put there or backlighting. And then you have your soft boxes on either side. Every now and then I'll play with them but mostly I'll just like, just do it to light up, add a little bit of shine behind you to float a little bit. But that also comes from the space behind you and the lighting and accents behind you to give you that, you know, distance. So I used to play with the lights a lot and now I just kind of just cut them on and just let the chips forward in May. Now what I do, a little trick that I'll do is if I'm stationary and not showing any other angles, I take, what is it, the loom cube and I just put it right underneath me so it'll light my beard and, you know, give some up lighting for more of a perfect look. And that's basically all I do. I don't do much with the lighting anymore. And all of the, another trick was if you go and you grab a bunch of hue lights, the issue was, now you're fine because you're overseas but you have to change and put it on PAL and not NSTC or something because you'll see that flickering. So this camera right here in front of me, that's on PAL, the other two in front on PAL but the other, like the A51s that shoot, you know if I were to switch to it, you might see it flicker a little bit. Right, right. But, you know, I didn't change those cameras, I just left them. Yeah, that can be a community issue when you'd also not like using video lights and things like that that can have that effect. You mentioned DSLR video shooter. So when I was looking to set up my, you know YouTube studio, it was him for all these sort of the camera and the lighting stuff. Tom Buck of course, for all of his stuff with cameras, lighting and audio. And then also, did you listen to or watch a podcastage with Bandro talking about audio? I suppose you've got the audio all sorted from that point of view, but podcastage is another one where he just talks all about microphones. So yeah, those are sort of great, great resources from that point of view. And so who else would you say that you've, you know, you sort of drew from in from the live streaming side of stuff in terms of, you know, to get educated with this kind of stuff? I would say every after, you know, you take, Caleb, you take Tom Buck, live streaming pros, they were a part of, you know, I will watch them. But then everyone else was just people in the Ecamm community, where it's just iron sharpens iron, you know? And it's amazing because in the community of Ecamm, it's a bunch of people have been watching somebody else or they learned something and whether they really got it or not, they tried it. And then, you know, credit just kind of goes around to different people. So confidence monitor, I found out what it was. And then I seen, okay, this is how you use it. And then this whole Lily put thing that I put together with the, you know, the Desiut3, I came up with that myself because, you know, I just wanted something to fit on there. And I'm like, I'm not putting the iPad under this. You know, and then a couple of other things, it's like the whole Google, like it's like, it is like Google University, right? Yeah, yeah. And you kind of find out what do I want to do? And then if you don't know what to do but you want to do something else, you kind of just surf and you float and then somebody will catch your eye. And then you can dissect what they're doing. And I just don't actually try to copy anybody. I just kind of look at what is the unique thing that they're doing that's universal. So the standards, a camera, a mic, those are standard. You know, you don't not use a mic. How else are you going to be heard? You know, you don't not use a camera. It's just what's your combination. So another little trick is I use 30 millimeters are my favorite. And I'm using a 16 millimeter lens now but the 30s were my favorite when other people were like, no, you got to get the 16 and I'm like, that's not what I'm using. And the people that started liking me, they were like, what's the one you use? I'm like, it's a 30 millimeter because you know, it's a more tighter shot. And there's distance. So, you know, I try to teach people find out what works for you. And if you like Sigma, Sigma has three lenses. You know that 56, the 16 and the 30, like find out which one works best for you. Don't just grab the 16 because everybody else did it because they're all 1.4. Take your time and get what works for you. So, but to answer your question, that it was, those are the main people I could think of, the ones that I named and the rest of them are all of the people in that community. And namely, you know, of course, Doc Rock, Diana, you, you know, each person that was coming in, you know, you meet people and then once everybody starts to get to know each other, you just kind of do it rich, you know? Rich is another one, you know? You look up and you like, Rich didn't give a darn. He's got whatever in the background. And you're like, I like that. And you know, you start to come out of your shell and not be so stiff and you kind of let people into your room. And yeah, so I don't think live streaming really centers in on specific people as much as it is people who just influence you. And that can be anybody. So for anybody who's listening, you know, you can find that popular person like for photography, I am a Manny Ortiz fan. I love Manny Ortiz. He's the bomb. But there are others out there that's like, you know, they got more subscribers than him in a whole nine, but I just like what he does. And so I learned from him, I'm inspired. And then I just figure out me and do what works for me. Yeah, that's that's so true. And there's so many sort of inspirational people around that you can sort of draw from my perspective that, you know, like people like you and all the other, you know, people have had on the show as well are all people that I've, you know, looked to for that sort of inspiration as well. The thing that as well that you mentioned about was, you know, this thing of people have got this idea that, oh yeah, they need the, you know, the Sony camera with the Sigma 16 and the SM7B. And it's just like this almost like a shopping list without really understanding why they think that they need that. And so that's one thing I have always, you know, appreciated about you is the way that, especially in the Ecam community, so sort of giving of your time and things that you've discovered and your expertise. And you are sort of always breaking away from that to a point of just making the point you've just made about, you know, it's a case of finding what works right for you and not just sort of jumping onto the list that everyone else gives out. Right, because later on people get upset because, you know, they'll get it and not know like Alec is going to get the new Elgato pedal, six pedal. That's what Alec knows what he's doing with it, you know, or the new Stream Deck 64, you know, 82 or something. Alec knows what he's doing. Now watch Alec's video and see, okay, does that work for me? Cause he's going to do the work. He's going to put the time in. But if Alec says, you know, mate, I like it, but you know, it's not for everybody. Listen, you know, if not, people are just like, oh, go grab it. And you know, I mean, I still have the first roadcasters sitting over here and I don't need it for anything else, but to turn on the mics behind me. That's it. Or play with the telephone. I don't need it for anything else. You know, when I go out, I record into it. I don't need the newer one cause I use the Soyuz boxes. Like that's kind of like a cloud lifter, but that's like a secret sauce that I use for my audio. So I don't need, you know, the next camera. I don't need the next lens, you know, the ZV-E10. That's what I'm using right here now. And the reason I have it is because the monitor flips out to the side. And because this is in front of me, I don't want it flipped up. So, but for the other cameras, you know, I have an A6100 behind the glide gear. And you know, some people were like, oh, to get a ZV-E10. And I'm like, when you flip out to the side, you can't see around the big thing on the side where you would have preferred to have the A61 flip up top. So, yeah, you know, it's, that's what people like you and I and many others, you know, we're gifted to be able to explain it to people so they can say, okay, I'm thinking about doing this. Let me see if Alec has a video on it so I can know. You know? You mentioned there about the rocaster as well. And this thing of, you know, that leads back into the whole gas thing, which is, you know, the rocaster pro one was the, you know, the best device of its kind on the market. And it's no different today than it was, you know, three months ago before the RCP-2 came out. And yet now suddenly people are like, look into, I've got to upgrade because it's a new thing. It's like, yeah, well, the other one's still perfectly, perfectly fine. And in fact, probably can do everything that people need. You know, even now, like, if you've not got either of them, should you buy the RCP-2 or the RCP-1? You know, you could argue that actually the, the rocaster pro-2 is still, you know, under development. It's a, you know, a release product, but it's not free from flaws by any stretch. So it could be that even now, where you've just got to make the choice between the two, that the RCP-1 is still the better choice. But yeah, there is this sense that people have that they've got to always be rushing to upgrade or buy the next new thing. Yeah, yeah. Like I say, I've just always, I've always appreciated your sort of stunts on this and where you come from in terms of the advice that you give in the ECAM community. Thank you, thank you. So in terms of the studio space you've got them, what do you see as sort of, you know, doing it to evolve it any further? Or you just sort of pretty much like it's done now? Or is there anything that you would like to sort of change or upgrade with it? Or things that you'd like, I haven't just been talking about upgrading, but I mean, I'm someone who, I'm not like rushing out to change loads of stuff, but I do always have ideas of things that I would maybe like to sort of switch up with it. Is there anything that you've got in mind for, you know, or additions or any future plans that you've got for it? Yes, one specific thing I'm going to do is I want to get rid of the sofa behind me, but I have to talk to my wife to find out. She's like, I just can't give it to anybody and we don't have another room to put it in. But I probably will get rid of the sofa so I can put four chairs back there because the sofa's so big. Only three people can sit on it because some of the clients that I can get and some of the ideas that I have for my own show, that I actually don't even have a show technically other than just a platform that I'm not like consistently using it. And I haven't zeroed in on what I'm going to do and just, you know, put two feet on the gas. But what I'm going to do is, you know, it'll be like a keeps place thing where people will really come by and sit down and talk, but I want to make it where no matter who comes in the room, I can catch them from every angle. But if I get four people in here, I want them to be able to sit in like four chairs behind me with a microphone in front of each chair, you know, a table to put your beer, your coffee, whatever on there, and we can just sit down and chat. So that's basically the only one other thing that I'm going to do. As far as gear, once I figured out how to color my own mics and not have to go to color wear, you know, wrap the mics and I'm cool with the audio. I'm pretty much like, the only thing I would upgrade is a Mac, if anything. So I got a Mac Studio coming. I'm going to get that and then God forbid if another one comes out at the end of this month, I'll probably grab that, move the Mac Studio over to the stand up and put the new one here. Other than that, I'm good. I'm good. And you've certainly got all the equipment for a few rearrange things to get all those camera angles in for sure. That's what I'm thinking of in terms of, you know, doing something regularly. What sort of conversations would you be having there? Obviously you do your, the sermons and things like that that you do. But in terms of like a live stream, have you got any sort of particular area of focus? I know you obviously have like the no-pro. So maybe you could talk a little bit about that and what that's all about. And the YouTube channel, I've left obviously links to all of your stuff, stuff in the description and the show notes and that's you can go and check out some great videos on your YouTube channel. But yeah, what's the sort of direction that you would be taking that in? So there's actually three Alec. I'm glad you asked me that because I thought I had pigeonholed myself for a second, but the name of my YouTube channel is the convos, right? With a K. And the reason why I'm fine and I'ma leave it there is because I'm probably going to branch it into or just be innovative where the convos doesn't pigeonhole me anywhere. Now some people would argue and say, well it's not specific and it doesn't really tell people what you're doing. And I'm like, if it's a conversation I can talk about whatever the heck I want to talk about. So if I want to talk about bike cycling, I can talk about cycling and have like cyclist friends stop over and just go live. And it's like, oh, they were talking about this. I learned that a lot of, there's podcasts like yours. There's other inspirational podcasts, right? And then there's instructional podcasts and videos and all. But when you just think about the convos, right? People have a, you strike up a conversation with people when you go to the coffee shop. What's the conversation? Well, if we're talking about Ukraine and Russia, that's the conversation. If we're talking about rice, that's the conversation. We're talking about the espresso, that's the conversation. And we're talking about the glasses that you have on. That's the conversation. And we're talking about, oh, that's a nice t-shirt. We're talking about clothes. So we can really talk about whatever we want. And so I'm leaving it at the convos because three things, my marriage, 20 years married of this year. And my wife and I, we don't really go around like, oh, we're the experts of marriage. We just have fun. And so people start asking us a ton of questions about marriage. And so I'm like, okay, we can do it on this channel. Then it's the photography, explaining why my eye is the way it is with photography. That's another topic. Then there's the gear. That's another topic. So with all of that, I'm just leaving at the convos. And once I get into it with my foot on the gas, it'll just be like, hey, he goes live and he's just having a conversation. And that's basically it. Well, I'd turn up whatever you're talking about because I know it's going to be a great conversation and always entertaining as well with it. Yes, thank you. One other thing that I always like to ask is if you've got a book recommendation that sort of influenced you and sort of helped with, well, with any aspect, I suppose, really. My favorite book, man, one of them is Business Secrets from the Bible and that's by Rabbi Lapin. And I'm not Jewish, but I love this guy because the way that he explains secrets and these secrets, they're not like trying to pull you into Judaism or make you Jewish or make you pseudo Christian or nothing like that, but it absolutely makes sense. Everything from how you relate to people, thanking five people a day, how you understand currency, basic principles about life and joy. And so that is kind of like a backliner for me that those business secrets, they really help you to prosper, not just in finances and wealth, but in your mental. And it's not like one of those self-help books. It's not a get-rich-tomorrow book and it helps you in everything and it'll be amazing how most people wouldn't understand. So how does that help you with podcasting and stuff? It's really like when you read this guy's book, you understand about how to get along with people so much better and to have peace and enjoy within yourself to function. I mean, he really digs in on how we're made to interact with one another. And so I value this relationship that you and I have, this friendship, meeting each other. We haven't met each other in person, but I talk about you like we grew up together or like, I hang out in your neighborhood every now and then or we got a couple of beers together or something. I'm like, oh, yeah, my man, Alec, over across the pond. You know, I'm like, oh, he's over in Thailand. And it's like, when's you guys like, I met him online. It's like, so you never met him in person? Like, no, but you know, it's like, that's my dude though. It is weird that like all of the people that I hang out with most these days, I've never met. And but I feel closer to them than, you know, I've got some of the closest relationships with people that I've never met before. It's really bizarre being over here and having this. Like rich, I haven't met rich personally yet. Like, like physically I haven't met rich, but it's like, oh, yeah, my buddy Rich. And it's like, hey, I got nothing. And it's like, by the time you meet each other, people will be like, so you guys know, how long? And it's just like, well, it's kind of weird. Like, you know, I think that comes back to the, you know, the whole sort of e-cam community thing. There is something really quite special about it. And I sort of almost have to pinch myself that it is a community based around a piece of software because there is something really sort of just tight about the community in general. And yeah, it's just an app guys, you know, but it's so much more than that in terms of, you know, I think it's also something about the, you're not to keep going on about e-cam specifically, but I think there's something that people find with e-cam that it is a real enabler for stuff, you know, their creative outlet. And so suddenly they realize that they have this tool and it removes this barrier for creativity that was previously there with, you know, software like OBS and things like that, that were not really as such a joy to use. Right. And there's a real joy that is brought through, you know, the just being able to switch things with a touch of a button and let your sort of creative juices flow with e-cam. And I think that we're just all sort of buzzing off that in the e-cam community. And so that's, we're united by that common joy, if you like. Absolutely. As we're getting close to the top of the hour, any advice that you would give to people wanting to either get into live streaming or that already are? What's the final bit of advice to give to people? Yeah, if you're from the building side, DJ Rob, he's out in Vegas, him and I, we're kind of like, yeah, we're like built, I met him personally and I've seen this immaculate, wonderful studio that he put together, you know, from Vision. And he's, him and I are kind of like, like you won't really find us with our own show, like really going full steam ahead. But it's like, we're always thinking like, oh, how can I get you to do it this way? How can we get the room looked at where? What's the new angle? There are people like us. Then there's people like Doc Rock who can set it up, but he can also do the show. Then there's, you and I, we can relate where it's like you can start from scratch and just take everything that you've already been in life and just implement it into learning, growing, innovating and not being afraid to do it. You have to know your why. A lot of people don't know their why. If you're like me, I know my why, but it's hard to explain my why to people. Like the photography. I'm really flourishing with photography because my brand on photography, I'm building it is called Candid. So if you look at my pictures, you may see like an orange writing or black and white or something at the bottom. My tag will be Candid with a K. And what that is is because I started getting work off of taking Candid chats, not, hey, say cheese, stand in front of this. It's just basically like I just go into the room, follow people around and just take pictures and they're like, oh, I like that. So when you learn how to just flow in who you are, build around who you are. And if you're not a creative in that space, that's when you take all of the master classes that Alec has, you take the master classes Adrian Salisbury and different people just to get the basics. Because even at basics, you might build a podcast and say, hey, maybe it's just audio for you because you may not have the time to do all of the video stuff. If that's not your lane, don't do it. This is something I just want to say. That's the nugget I'm going to drop. I still believe podcasting, I think statistically is still way ahead of video. And if that be the case, podcasting, there's so many programs out here to do podcasting with. And these mics that we're using right now makes it so easy. I mean, we could do SM7B, we can do other mics, but in simplicity, you can just take a USB cord. And I got to shout out Heather Tombuck's wife, Heather Crease. She was on a podcast, a video, and her and another guy that's got millions of followers. They're both using USB mics. And all of us are sitting in the comments section with SM7Bs and extra audio gear and roadcasters. And Heather's just like, I don't like to do all the stuff that Tom does. And it's simple. So people, you can have your laptop, plug in a shore USB mic, plug it in, and let it out. And go for your conversation. And then if you're feeling the bug, step into it lightly, or if you are rigorous, just dive in all ahead, but just know, gas go and get you. And that as well, the content is the thing that's going to bring people in ultimately. So you can have all the best gear, but if you're not sure on your purpose and you're not feeling that, then that's going to be felt by the people who are watching as well. So yeah. Yes. Yes. It's funny, Tom often talks about people saying, oh, why don't you, haven't you got fixed Heather up with a roadcaster or something like that? And she's like, she don't want it. And Heather's like, I'm just happy with this. And she does an awesome job with it. So it's definitely not the... Well, here's what's interesting, Ali. If you notice, I follow Heather on IG. And Heather is, I think she put a post up and was like, I was trying to do this creator's economy or something which she was doing. And she's like, I want to tap into doing what I feel more so than what I feel like I should be doing. And I was like, that is just so genius because we all laughed at her, not in a bad way, but in a funny way, because we dug in and found an old video when she was literally in tears. And it made me cry. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm actually crying with her. And I'm like, this is you years ago. And it's like, she didn't really pick up on that. She started doing what she thought she's supposed to do rather than take a creative space and do what really works for you and who you are. And so you can find a line. It's like driving. You don't drive where somebody tells you to drive. You drive to get where you are going, but you have to put the car in gear. You have to, if you're overseas, you got to drive on the other side of the street. You can't just do the same side you do in America. You have to hit the gas. You can't hit the brake and go forward. So you have to follow certain rules to do certain things. But where you're going, your destination, is not dictated by the rules of how to drive the car. If that makes sense. So that would be something I would tell creatives to, yes, there's certain standards. You have to pick VMIX, Ecamm, OBS, something. You have to pick Restream. Got to pick that. But other than doing that, what you say and what you're coming out with, take time, find out what you want to talk about. Is it for you and then go for it. And all the resources that you need, they are out there to get what works for you. That seems like the perfect space to wrap it up. That is such excellent advice. And we're at the top of the hour. I've left links to everything that you're doing Keith, so anyone you can go and find Keith there. But where is somewhere that you would specifically like to sort of direct people? Where's the best place that you think for them to go to find out about what you're doing and what you're most excited about at the moment? My IG. I would say my IG. And that's straight Keith Pelzer, K-E-I-T-H-P-E-L-Z-E-R. And you'll see me with this shirt on. And those of you not watching, if you can't see it, it's a VU meter shirt. And I'm the guy with the glasses. Okay, so that IG, you'll see either me, my wife or some friends. And if I get overseas and run into Alec, you're going to see pictures of me and Alec with the same haircut. And you'll see two brothers from the other side of the water hanging out, you know? And that's basically where to find me at. And so I'm really putting my foot on the gas and the more I'm doing the photography, I will be opening up to do so many more lives. And then there's my YouTube, which is T-H-E The Convos With a K. Dot Live is the easiest way to get to it or just look for The Convos With a K and a S on an N on YouTube. And so I'll just be providing more and more content and information and just unpacking how we put all of this together. I've left links, as I say, to all of that in the description as well. But yeah, definitely check out those in the Instagram. You've got some such awesome pictures. I always love seeing those come through. Thanks so much for being here today. It's been a real pleasure speaking to you, Keith. Alec, thank you for having me, man. Enjoying this, man. I love your work. I love what you're doing. You are the bomb, bro. Keep it up and just keep blessing people, man, with what you do. Yeah, thanks so much. Thanks so much indeed. I'll have a little chat to you backstage afterwards. But for now though, I'm going to wrap it up and just say in the next episode, I'll be joined by Katie Forks. Katie is the director of marketing at the Ecamm Network. And you all know what a big fan of Ecamm Live I am. Katie is just such an awesome person. And by far one of the best features of Ecamm Live, as we've talked about, is this thing of the community. And it's such a welcoming and supportive environment where everyone's there to share information and grow together. Well, that is no accident. It takes real skill to foster that kind of community. And as a moderator in the Ecamm Group, I get to peek behind the scenes and I know just how much of a driving force Katie is behind that success. I'm really keen to talk to her about her approach, both building community, but also how she is using live streaming as a marketing tool for Ecamm, but then also as a way to serve that community as well. Katie's one of the nicest people you could hope to meet and I'm really looking forward to the conversation. So that'll be same time next week. In the meantime, have an absolutely wonderful week ahead. And I'll see you next time.