 Discussion and it may even turn into an even more interactive discussion By the way, good morning. Good evening. Good afternoon. I hope you all are doing well But I want to have discussion because I think what's happening is well first of all Being a Christian and being saved does not preclude us from being ignorant of what the Bible says I think you all agree with that now when I say ignorant I don't mean it as a pejorative meaning that I don't mean that that person is If anyone is ignorant that they are dumb or stupid. I don't mean it like that as a put down I mean that you know, you just don't you mean I know and so I want to cover something That obviously I I cover a lot, but I wanted I want to do this in a way where I Want to get some feedback. I want to see if maybe I'm just maybe it's me You ever have you ever done that? Have you ever thought to yourself? Maybe it's me. Maybe it's I'm I'm either misunderstanding it or Maybe I'm saying it wrong. Maybe I'm hearing it wrong Whatever and so this is one of these issues as a regard salvation That maybe it's me. I don't think it's me. I think maybe I'm not explaining it Well, or maybe folks have just decided I'm not gonna hear maybe it's like the guy that told me some time before he Said that no matter what you say No matter what you say, I am so drilled down. I am so invested in this position I'm not gonna change my mind on anything, but Corey, isn't that you you don't seem to want to Bend to this issue of salvation. Well again again. I already did I Was on this side and did not I didn't even like the people very much who did who disagreed I didn't like the people who believe you can lose your salvation because surely these people they don't know what they're talking about They don't they might they don't love they don't love the Lord Well again, so for me to come to this side that would have to mean that I'm at least Somewhat or at least in the past I've been open to changing so I'm probably going to I'm probably going to Do this again as a matter of fact, let me let me put this right here as well Let me copy this over here and put it over here because I I think I might want to have a conversation And we don't we haven't done this a lot and so maybe we'll do it again Maybe maybe this will be the one time that we do for the year. We certainly haven't done it In a while and it could be a bit Let me make sure I pin this to the top It can be I've got all these screens over here I got look all the way over here just to put this thing on so I pin that I'm gonna also put it right here and Add it again later, but now You'll see That was done what I just did that was absolutely what I just did I just I just realized what I did Let me remove that. I Don't believe what I just did Okay What I did was I was not I didn't mean to give you guys that didn't mean to give you guys that I meant to give you this The email I'm sorry. Yeah There it is At what is it Gmail? Okay, I'm sorry Put that up. Let me do it that way and then as a matter of fact, let me also copy and Don't go in Corey. Hold on one second one second one second. Let me if this thing would stop moving. Oh Wait a second. I can do it over here. Wait a second. I'm trying to copy. I can't copy this thing Going computer Okay, I Want instead of having to retype this whole thing out again. I wanted to copy and paste it and as I'm Copying it it is there it is now I can now I can pin this thing Of course, I could have been at the first time the place pin message. There we go. There we go. All right good Good, I'm sorry y'all so Someone actually you all have heard before that I've stated that Need some new glasses my glasses. I do need some new glasses though I actually do and I'm going to get a an eyeglass appointment for the next week or so, but I Have stated before in the past that if you can refute my Greek exegesis of Romans 1028 then I'll take the challenge out now someone Took me up on this and I want to I want to play a little bit. I've invited him on Maybe we will maybe we won't there was a time actually in the past We want to have a debate on someone else's channel and at the last minute they replaced me I didn't I didn't ask me take it off, but I got replaced by somebody else so all right fine and but I invited him to come on and at some point in time at his at his leisure whenever he has the time or The inclination and we can have a discussion, but until then I want to cover something. He said In his attempt to refute what I've said and so I'm gonna play What he said and now he's not gonna be on to to refute it But if there's anyone else who Disagrees with me but agrees with him then I would love to have you to refute what I'm saying Because again, it's not about who's right or who's wrong, but it's about what's right? And so I don't want to be I Don't want to be someone who is just Sounding off something just because because I want to be right. I want to I'm like you I want to be right, too. And if I'm wrong that I need to figure out what's right And so I can be that are you with me? So I want to go ahead and play This gentleman his name is I think I think AK Richardson. It may be a k robertson I think it's a k robertson. He left a comment on a previous video And so that's how I knew that he was doing this video and so I just happened to check in matter of fact He sent me a Response on a video letting me know that he was gonna cover this and so let me play what he said now If you haven't heard, let's put it on the screen real quickly I covered this in John 10 28, but John 10 28 is not in a vacuum by itself But let me go there first and then let's move so it says in verse 28 I give them eternal life and they will never perish and no one will snatch them out of my hand now I wanted to also tell you why this is so important to keep going through this to keep hashing this out a Little when you also tell you now I'll tell you now why I think it's important The reason why it's important is because it affects someone's confidence as they're moving throughout their daily walk Because I've got some questions I've got some questions. I'm gonna ask these questions later on but I'm gonna go ahead and ask them again I've got some questions in regards to someone losing a salvation now. It might just be me But the question is this one When I sin One sin if I commit one sin Do I lose my salvation? Do I lose my salvation after each sin? That's one question that I would like to ask someone have someone answer that question Whatever their answer is it's probably they're probably gonna say no because if that's the case and we all sin Unless you're one of these guys who thinks that or says that he doesn't sin with him It's a whole nother category, but If I don't lose it after one sin if one sin doesn't cause me now This is now this for not for you guys who believe that you don't lose your salvation This is for the people who believe that you can lose your salvation So my question is if after one sin do I do I lose my salvation if you say no my question is why not? Why don't I lose my salvation after one sin? Well, because it takes more than one sin Well, what if it's a real big sin? What if what if I what if I kill somebody with that one sin be enough to cause me to lose my salvation or Do what is it? I've got a lie so many times. I've got a lust so many times I've got a covet so many times. I've got to be jealous of what is it. Is there a scale if I do one of these big sins that could do it or 20 30 of these little sins. I don't know. I just I need some understanding So my question is if I don't lose after one sin, why not or How many times do I have to sin if I can lose my salvation? How will I know will I will I know that I lost my salvation? That's my quote when I lose my salvation. Will I know it? How will I know and will I know it? The day that I lose my salvation Will I will I feel like I haven't lost the day before? What what would be the difference between the day before I lost my salvation and the day that I actually lose my salvation? What's what's the difference? I'm just these are questions that I have to have to answer Because if I'm in danger of losing it that I would love to know The process that unfortunately no one has ever in the history of mankind stated how many times you can sin before you lose it Okay, but anyway, so I read the passage I want to go ahead and And get to it and then I want to refute because his response It is it is sorely lacking. It is sorely lacking and I'm not I'm not I don't want to be ugly because I think he's a nice guy Uh, at least it comes across that way. I don't know him personally But I want to cover this and see how this is this is a this is a non-answer The double negation It's just fine But here's the problem It has nothing to do with the topic of one saved always saved and why is that? Well, who does he say will never perish? And I even asked him on his youtube channel. I said who will never perish He said my sheep Well, that's right and he says these kinds of things in other places It's the same argument though. I mean, I'm gonna say it like this before I just get to the point It's the same argument if you make it in the positive where he says those who believe on me I give them eternal life. See this is just a negative argument Now he's asking when I did the video. I can remember which video it was actually But when I did the video, I think you know it was it was a video where I said the greek Pretty much shuts it down. I can't remember what it was titled, but In that he asked well, who will never perish and I said the sheep And he's almost like well bingo. That's the point the sheep so Does he not know this entire If you go to watch that particular video as a matter of fact if I remember I'll go ahead and Put a link in the descriptions to the video that he covered this on because in that same video he's talking about Uh a passage in first crimson. I think 12 that uh The catholics used to I guess to promote purgatory Well, what he does is and he also says this passage also Uh refutes one saved always saving people who believe in one saved always say we'll go to this passage But I didn't mean that because what he does is he's not his conclusion is wrong. He is uh in the catholic catholic church He's in the church of christ They believe you can lose your salvation They believe you have to be baptized to be saved and that you can lose your salvation So he's not going to budge off of that unless he decides he wants to go ahead and leave the church of christ Which I find I get that you can be dug in so much to your denomination I think that would have that's what happens a lot of time. I might say that about him but about a lot of people and so His I think he's saying aha got you Because you have to be a sheep and I hear this argument that you have to be a sheep in order for verse 28 Especially clause b to apply that I give in turn life and they should never perish and so Yeah, you have to be a sheep my question is going to be One what does it mean to be a sheep? When do you become a sheep? And so we'll we'll flesh this out more But I just want to kind of give you an idea of where he's at where he's at what he's thinking of Of that argument Which is typically that people will say well He says Jesus says to those who believe on me. I give them eternal life like John 3 16 or whatever See see eternal life. It's eternal. Don't you know it's not temporal life Well, this is like the same argument But in the negative to say Well emphatically he says They will never perish. I mean it isn't strictly speaking in the negative But it's using a it's using a negative concept They will not do something as opposed to what they what they will have or something like that But this idea that they will never perish the reason I asked that question who will never perish is important He says the sheep Now comes the point which is rather simple See that's what I mean. He it's almost that see it's the sheep. It's the sheep and so to him and to others. It's like Aha, aha No, not so fast and he's going to say this and then we're going to show where He is misguided Nobody says the sheep perish Nobody says the sheep perish The sheep are those who following him Obviously, we don't believe we who deny Once saved always saved and if he's a Calvinist, he would not he would probably just say uh uh, eternal he would say, uh Perseverance of the saints. I don't know which is fine. This this is why I think it's also good Now i'm not a Calvinist But even if you were a Calvinist to stop telling me that you're a Calvinist because people have this default Where they they know you're a Calvinist See you're a Calvinist and so and so and so and so what no deal with the argument Leave the the Calvinists or or the denominational issues Along let's just deal with the with the facts, ma'am or sir in this case a whole lot about this individual But to say that the sheep will never perish Those who hear my voice and those who follow me will never perish goes without saying Nobody says the sheep who follow Christ will ever perish So so far I think we're in agreement the sheep who follow Christ will never perish But he's going to he's going to diverge from what the scriptures are talking about So it completely misses the point The point is if you're not following him Even if you once did you are not his sheep Now This is where the entire train that he was on just derailed In his discussion when he was covering His response to the Catholic about purgatory he read the passage in 1st Corinthians or 2nd Corinthians And he read the whole thing he's saying we have to keep this thing in context Okay, fine because verse 28 is not just sitting there by himself It's part of a conversation that Jesus is having And we've covered this before the question is will sheep ever stop following Not they formerly followed or they formerly were sheep But do they the question is do sheep stay sheep if you're a sheep do you stay sheep? Or do you have to become a sheep? So his question is who will never perish the answer is a sheep? So if a sheep never perishes am I not a sheep or will I have to become a sheep? Are you with me? Because if I'm a sheep now, then what do I have? I have life into the ages or eternal life And so but he's making the assertion that What if a sheep stops following What if a sheep has to be what if a sheep becomes a goat so to speak? What if a sheep decides to stop listening to stop following? Well, what's the answer we've covered this before Will a sheep ever stop following now? I say there's no passage that says so as a matter of fact Jesus is giving a description We're going to cover that in a second But he says that there are passes to say the sheep will stop following find the one find the passes That says a sheep will stop following Find it We know specifically who we're talking about we're talking about Jesus's sheep We're talking about his his his sheep the sheep that belong to him And so when you if you try to make the connection at someone who who who kind of superficially believed and then stop You got to make you got you have to make the argument and the proof that they actually were sheep Here we know the whole context in John 10 is sheep And we're told what sheep are going to do. We'll come back to that in a second But I want to let him finish making this point It's just like when Jesus says those who believe on me have eternal life Well, of course, nobody says that believers don't have eternal life We say unbelievers those who do not believe in Christ and believe is more than mental ascend It's following him. It's it's a working faith now I'm gonna leave the working part along because I don't think he's he's getting to the workspace salvation I think kind of really is but he'll he won't say that but He just said did you hear he said it's following him? We agree. It's following him. We agree. Let me say it again. It's out of his mouth following him So my question on the floor is do sheep follow him? Do sheep always follow him? Do sheep ever stop following him? Will she turn the other way will she who are following him? Turn and walk away will sheep who are following him who have the Holy Spirit in them? Because you don't get to be a sheep. You're not a sheep without the Holy Spirit Do sheep who follow him do sheep ever turn and walk the other way? That's the question on the floor We're gonna we're gonna come to that and we're gonna have make sure that we know it's a With a resounding answer. She never stopped following him. She never turned away and he never turns away from them Paul says in Galatians 5 and 6 So if you don't have faith well, you don't have the eternal life Now the question is do we have faith and I want to pull up pull it up as well because I think I'm I'm gonna want to go to this passage as well because The debate that he was going to have with me He went to Galatians 5 And the person that he debated uh, you ever It was one of those times like why did you why did you remove me? What two three four? Why did you remove me? Because what he what he what he jumps on and his point is I think Obliterated by that very same passage that he went to in Galatians 5, but we'll come back to that Uh in just a little bit, but let's finish listening to him to make his point You see what the bible doesn't say is he that you know the former believer has eternal life See, that's the issue. So what he just said here is irrelevant completely irrelevant because Nobody really believes even those who deny one saved always save nobody believes among that group That the sheep who follow him will never will ever perish We believe those who stop following him will perish in fact, that's what the bible promises It's just like when jesus says my question that would be where does the bible say that those that stop following him will I mean we're we're I need an actual passage I need an actual passage Because now I agree if a person were to stop following if a person were to stop abiding if a person were to stop Hearing or listening the person was to stop believing I believe that person is not going to have internal salvation I just believe though that sheep aren't that type that it isn't sheep that stop believing It isn't sheep that stop following. I'm saying this Hearing and following are two of the verbs that are used here And the bible says just the opposite will come to that in a second and then because maybe again, maybe it's just how I am Um, explain this. Maybe I'm not I'm not getting it the right way. I'm not I'm not sure, but we'll see Who believes on me has eternal life and they'll say Well, it's eternal life It's eternal. It doesn't ever end. Yes, that's right But it's given to those who believe not to those Now it's giving to those that believe because the other question I'm going to have to ask as well What do you mean by belief? What is what is meant by belief now again? I I think what I'm going to do I'm pretty sure I'm going to do this if anyone does disagree With what I'm saying. I'm going to give you the opportunity if you want to come on and have this conversation It'd be fairly brief. Um, but we're going to do with these passages For obvious reasons for lack of time. We can't go all over the bible because if what The truth of the the truth of the bible is also still found in these passages Are you with me? And so for the sake of time, I'm going to kind of control where we're going And not go to the 20 or 30 passages you may want to go to even though I've covered those before anyway, but The question is what is meant by belief Formerly believed but no longer You see in order to really make the conversation relevant you have to prove Those of you who use that argument you have to prove that the believer can never ever become an unbeliever Now that's his point. You have to prove that a believer can never ever become an unbeliever Let's see if we can do that right now. Let's go to John chapter 10 And let's go to the very beginning of john 10 and let's just again and we covered this before But I really think that this is a This is something that It's important. I think it's just I think one of the biggest problems in the church not regarding him, but just In totality the biggest problem that we have in the church is is our hermeneutics Um, we don't stay consistent Because if I applied this keeping everything in context like he did in paul speaking about those that they that suffer loss But not under salvation But he's reading the whole thing in context. I think he makes a mistake on that But fine, at least he's saying that I'm going to keep this whole thing in context We'll keep all the chapter 10 context verse 28 belongs to all of john 10 belongs to the entire The entire story the entire writing that john is is telling Um, but specifically to this part where jesus speaking in john 10 there's a context to it So let's go to john 10 and let's listen to what he's saying. He says Truly truly I say to you let me let me mark this Oh, I pushed the wrong one truly truly. I say to you that he who does not enter by the sheepfold by the door But climbs in by another way that man is a thief and a robber But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep To him the gatekeeper opens the sheep hear his voice now you all tell me if I'm incorrect Did he not just say the sheep hear his voice? He says the sheep hear his voice Now does he say the sheep will always forever and ever and ever hear his voice? No, I wouldn't say that but but it gives the president active indicative that the sheep are hearing his voice Then he says and he calls. This is also phoné, which is also in the president active indicative Which means they are hearing. I mean they're um, I'm sorry. He's calling his own sheep by his voice And he leads them out verse four So the sheep hear his voice and he calls by by naming leads them out And when he has brought out all his own sheep idea, I think that's important that we understand what idea his own These are his own sheep I'm not a shepherd, but I do know this I do know this when Shepherds if a flock gets together the shepherds the sheep still know that shepherd They may even intermingle But but as soon as the shepherd the two shepherds diverge and go different routes Then the sheep are still going to follow their shepherd Even if those sheep kind of get mixed up the shepherds the sheep that are over here and the shepherd goes that way That those sheep are still going that way or with me. And so when he's speaking of his own His own sheep are going to follow him. He says he go when he goes out He has brought out all his own sheep. He goes before them. And what does he say and the sheep? follow A colute which is they again This is this is in the present active indicator and the sheep are following him for they know They are also They know his voice now This is in the blue perfect active indicative Meaning this is a past action with completed an ongoing ramifications. So they hear it. They heard it and they keep hearing it I'm sorry. They know it. I said here They have known it in the past and they keep knowing it. Are you with me? That's what the blue perfect tense is and so and so for him. They know his voice now Can a person say that still doesn't necessarily mean that they will always keep hearing that they won't ever turn away That still can't mean or at least they may take it that it doesn't mean that they will never turn away Well, but he's going to deal with that in just a second. Jesus says a stranger They will not follow but they will flee from him. Excuse me If you make the statement If you if you make the statement, let me answer this question someone by the way, thank you for super chat But he says why do you keep questioning one's saved always say it's confusing or you're asking why I do it Or why do I keep bringing it up? I keep bringing up because that's all that's the basis of the book The basis of the book is what I'm talking about right now. The basis of the book is this Salvation, it's all you got all you got in life. You can bring all your pearls You can bring your stocks. You can bring your bonds. You can bring your properties You can bring everything to the table all your valuables and they pale in comparison to this issue right here And the reason I'm bringing this up by the way is Um By the way, if I whatever else I'll talk about not you not you not you but whatever else I'll talk about somebody's gonna say Why do you keep talking about that? Why do you keep talking about tongues? Why do you talk about demons? Why do you keep talking about this? Why do you keep talking about that? Why do you keep talking about that? It's only 365 days a week. I'm in a year. Um Yeah, we're gonna talk about a lot of things more than once so now He says that sheep by the way Because the only option is if sheep do follow If she were going to follow and I say well, that didn't mean that she will always follow Well, if they don't always follow, what will they naturally do? Turn away There's only two options for a sheep to do the only two options is that she will follow And if if it's to say that the sheep will never keep following if they stop following That must mean it necessarily necessarily means that they have turned away and followed something else Okay, and so what does Jesus say? He says He goes before them and the sheep follow him for they know his voice The reason why they follow him because they know his voice a stranger They will not follow but what will they do when they hear that strange voice? They will flee from him for they do not know the voice of the strangers. So a person is saved They have heard the voice they believed in it Now all of a sudden they stopped believing it or what caused it it wasn't because there was no voice It's because somebody the enemy has began speaking to them The enemy has began saying no, what about hinduism? What about buddhism? What about there is no god? What about atheism? There's going to be a strange voice that's going to come after us The bible says peter tells us that the devil is like a roaring lion He's seeking who made devourer he's going to come after us He's going to throw all sorts of things our way and when he does Are we going to listen to that voice? Well, Jesus just said Jesus just said hey everybody not me Just said that the truth that the sheep will not listen to that voice as a matter of fact the sheep will turn away and will flee And so when we get 28 as we get there all he's doing is building up He is expecting you to have understood what he said in verses three four and five He's he says it really really simply He's expecting you to get that part That's as a matter of fact. He's using an example of the day They all know what sheep do they they pass by a sheep all the time You could not live in that region in that land and not know what sheep are That's why the bible is always using the analogy of of a shepherd and a sheep. That's why we're called sheep Sheep follow sheep follow something Sheep always follow something Are you with me? Sheep don't just sit there. They're gonna follow something and in this case he says Jesus not quarry Or this gentleman here or anyone else Jesus is the one and john is the ones relating this to us That the sheep will never Follow anyone as they will matter of fact not only will they not follow they will flee Are you with me? So go approach the sheep try to get the sheep to come what's going to happen the sheep are going to not listen and In the end turn and go back walk away. I don't know who you are Let's continue Let's drop down to Verse seven So Jesus again said to them truly truly I say to you I am the door of the sheep all who come before me are thieves and robbers But the sheep did not listen to them the wait a second Who didn't listen to him the sheep did not listen now help me out guys If I'm not explaining this correctly someone said let's let me click on this someone said um, I honestly Think quarry is wrong when about people not being able to turn away And be saved. I do believe he's right about one saved always say But I think consequences for sheep forsaken christ. But again, um Marrant marion in am I saying this correctly? He just he literally just said he just said sheep won't turn sheep will turn away They will not turn away from him. But what they will turn away from is another voice They will not follow that other voice and we're gonna look at a passage where god also jumps in the argument and says No, you never turn away from me. You are you so Again, I think the confusion comes in when we look at people who call themselves sheep And they turn away See see that person he was a sheep and he turned away. He was a christian. He left. I was a christian and I left Well, how do you know you were a sheep? How do you know you were christian? We're gonna base the argument not on our own experiences, but on what jesus said as a matter of fact what he just said Are you with me? Now If you disagree Put an in Or no So I can so I can mark you and see whatever whatever point that you are that you are making Because I want to ask you some questions if you want to end up coming on board a matter of fact, let's click on something for a second Okay, I just want to make sure that that no one has has sent in yet. So Let's continue. Jesus says that I am the door of the sheep All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen I am the door if anyone enters by me, he will be saved now If anyone enters by me the word is asa fe which is it's just it it seems it seems because it's the aris active Subjunctive it's in the aris. It seems to indicate that you enter one time It does not say that you have to keep entering But I could be wrong But no, I can't be wrong because Jesus just said what sheep do and don't do Jesus said what sheep do and don't do can anyone who disagree? I would like to know anyone who disagrees with me because again I'm just trying to figure out if I'm explaining this correctly or not I might be explaining it. I might have the right grasp, but I might be explaining explaining it incorrectly But is there anything else that she do did he did Jesus not just describe what sheep do and what sheep don't do I think it seems to me that Jesus described what sheep do And what sheep don't do If I'm incorrect, if I'm incorrect, please help me out and again guys One of the reasons why this is also important Paul says Let every man examine himself to find if he does have Christ There's gonna come a time guys when everybody on planet is a christian every not everybody But I'm I'm being the ceaseless, but everyone's you know what I'm a christian. I'm a christian but you keep Going this route you keep doing What the bible says christians don't do you're a sheep, but you keep doing what sheep don't do As a matter of fact continue for the faith faith for super chat We covered this before this particular path that he's speaking of He says that let me look over here because Hard for me to see it on this screen Just to name a few all say that none can deliver from god's hand only he can let you go And he won't do that the reason why that's important is because guess who is going to piggyback Off of that statement Jesus is about to piggyback off of that statement. I don't know if y'all remember this when we have in the bible Say we're talking about god's mighty hand how he has delivered them with his mighty hand and he didn't lose any in the temp I mean in what he was doing by set bring them out with his mighty hand Now this theme Especially in the beginning Uh, and we see it in genesis at well in excess leviticus and numbers and do the run We see this this this emphasis on god's mighty hand. We don't see it so much so much As much as we do then as we do later on in the old testament Why because god is not delivering all of them all of them with his mighty hand But jesus is going to pick back up on this about his mighty hand And none can deliver him out of my hand because what does he say in chapter 28? That no one neither can anyone snatch them out of my hand. He's not saying. Oh, you can walk away But in case you don't walk away, no one can snatch, you know His whole point in bringing that up at imagery is what stated in dunara me as well That it's my mighty hand that you're in and if you're in it ain't nobody including you getting out of it But we'll come to that in just a second though, but maybe maybe just maybe I'm saying this incorrectly now if you if you disagree with me And you want to have this brief conversation? You're more than welcome to hit the To send me an email and I will send you the link and I'll I'll bring you on We'll have a a a quick conversation. I've got a few questions to ask you I've got a few because I think I really think that I could walk you down this path And you'll have to say yes And you'll be now you're gonna want to say but but but but but and then want to go to other passages But if those passages refute this and we have a contradiction So I want to find out what you think this is saying here are you with me? So let's go back to john 10 He says the thief comes on the steal and to kill and destroy I have came that they may have life And also have it abundantly. I won't speak on the abundantly part. I think I could but I am the good shepherd the good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. I think that's important though I think that's important Let me answer this she says Hebrew 6 is a stern warning to all believers reprobation is real Here's the problem with Hebrew 6 first of all the writer of Hebrews is writing to who? Well, it's implied in the title to Hebrews to Jews. Jews are accustomed Sweetheart to this one thing. They are accustomed to as long as they've been Jews They have been accustomed to The different things that the law requires namely having their sins atoned for they believe this was their issue And this is what he talks about Going throughout Hebrews They believe that they have to keep having their sins atoned for every year. That was accustomed Remember they've been Christians for they've been believing in Jesus for about this amount of time Compared to this amount of time Following Judaism and they believe that you have to still keep keeping the law And the the main portion of the law is the day of atonement is atonement So what does the writer of Hebrews going to do? He he's comparing these this Jewish salvation now with the atonement And we've got better sacrifices. So under the old covenant The Jews could lose their salvation. They could be saved They can have their sins atoned for this year. The following year is no guarantee for them to have their sins atoned for Are you with me? And so his point is and he's speaking hyperbolically and hypothetically that if you could Yeah, here you are and he's speaking about believers believing Jews believing Jews If you could fall away, he says it's impossible to bring you back Now would you say or would anyone else say that if you lost your salvation? You can't get it back because that's what Hebrews 6 is saying And so he's comparing as a matter of fact as far even as we go further on in chapter 7 8 9 10 11 He's clarifying that you cannot lose it. It is done. He gave this one Sacrifice this one payment and it is a done deal. But now we'll come back to some to some more. Let's go back to John chapter 10 Oh, let's go to verse 13. He says he flees this this is highly he flees because he's a hired hand and cares nothing for a sheep By the way, when he says that he lays down his life, why would the sheep lay down his life? I mean, why would the shepherd lay down his life? The reason for the shepherd laying down his life is because he's trying to also bring the fact that there's a better sacrifice To what they what they've been used to You Jews are used to this particular type of sacrifice That's only temple, but I'm giving I'm going to give a sacrifice That is eternal and that's what he's talking about about him laying down his life. But let's continue He says I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own Know me my own Know me My own know me. They are knowing me Just as the father knows me and I know the father and I lay down my life for the sheep Now he says and I have other sheep that are not of this fold Who's he speaking of what sheep that are not of this fold? Well the Gentiles He's got other sheep out of this fold not Jews on the other side of the the equator No Gentiles and look what he says. He says I must bring them together or bring them also Excuse me, um, and they will listen they will Listen to my voice now speaking of us. He used this word Akus Susan This is in the future active indicative. So guess what they will do Guess what the sheep will do So will the sheep ever stop? Ladies and gentlemen, I'm asking a question on the floor. I would like for you guys to add. What did they say? Okay, um Okay, that's fine. I'm twisting the word. Which which part did I twist? And listen, I welcome you if you'd like to Send me an email. I'll send you a link and we can have the conversation more, you know more thoroughly If not, that's fine, but I would like for you to tell me Uh studio savage who or how am I twisting it? What which passage which scripture did I just say that's wrong? Tell me which scripture did I just use incorrectly? I I because again, I don't Okay, he's an email. So I'll go ahead and send you the link and just lose it. Okay. I see it. All right um Okay, cool. So I will I will bring you on just a little bit. So for the rest of you guys When I say that us as sheep Will listen to his voice Is that not just what Jesus just said that we will listen to his voices? Put it back on the screen again verse 16. He says I must bring them and they will listen to my voice So there will be one flock and one shepherd So the question is am I correct in saying that that we will listen Does anyone disagree that sheep will listen? Is there anyone that disagrees with that statement? I I say that sheep will listen. Does anyone disagree? All right, continue the faith. You you're saying too much truth because you're absolutely right He he brings in he brings he does bring in his deity here he does because absolutely Imperative to our salvation is the fact that we're not being saved by some demigod Or some uh some rogue angel or some goddess who got some time in his hand No, we are literally being saved by god. And so you're right. He is implying His deity. So is there anyone who disagrees with what I will sheep Is there anyone disagrees that that sheep will not listen to his voice? He says they will listen to his voice Does anyone disagree? now someone's Okay, let me address this too Not not you but I've seen other folks say this 1689 Baptist There are folks who believe in term security who are now bothered by the term one saved always saved The reason why people are bothered by the term one saved always saves because people don't believe it Don't like the term. Let me just say it however you want to call it But once you are saved you are always saved that is a perfect terminology Once you are saved You are always going to be saved who saved you you didn't save yourself You weren't saved by your local fire department. You weren't saved by the by the uh, uh By the Timbuktu police department. No, you were saved by the lord himself He saved you. He didn't save you just to let unsave you. No, and so I think it is a perfect term Matter of fact, I I'm digging my heels in when someone say well, I don't I don't like the term now There are other terms of it also Uh, just as pertinent if saved always saved One saved always saved turn on security perseverance the same preservation saying all means the same thing But I'm gonna stick with one saved always saved. Why one because it engenders. It just brings about emotions Two is true once you are saved you are always going to be saved Now there are some folks that believe we don't get the return The reward until later. We're gonna deal with that in a second too. He says it depends on when I got Hold on. Oh, go on it By the way, let me just say this. There are people who Felt like this was a day they got saved and it wasn't That was the day that they made a public profession of their faith And then they realized oh, you know, I really wasn't I'm I'm horrible And then they actually began to believe now If a person is a true christian when do they become that when do they become his When do that true christian become his well, we believe that it happened way back when Now does that make me a Calvinist? No, it does not Calvinist believe this the non-Calvinist believe this long before there was such thing as Calvinist As a matter of fact, it's not a Calvinist doctrine. It is a biblical doctrine this doctrine of election We may or may not get to it but He just says The sheep will believe The sheep will believe I hope no one is bringing up Judas stop Stop it Stop bringing up Judas The man was condemned from the beginning the man He's the son of perdition and Jesus says that he was never cleansed in John 10 But he's speaking of the the other 11 they have been cleansed when he's washing their feet He says they have been cleansed except for one person And it's clear who he's speaking of he's speaking of Judas. So that being stated So we see that sheep will not will not turn away. They will hear they will follow He will bring them in and they will listen to his voice So sheep will never stop hearing They will never they will never stop following now This is where he goes and says uh for this reason the father loves me because I laid down my life that I might take it up again The reason why that's important is because the reason why he has to lay down his life The reason why because I think people need to ask a question. Why why does Jesus have to die? for our sin I'll come back to I'll answer that question John. Why does Jesus have to die for our sin? No, true TV. If someone is now, okay, let me say this Is it possible that a person could be let's say watching porn and staying safe? So my question is going to be then this How many times can you watch porn and not be saved? How many how many times can you sin? What's the number of sins that takes you over the threshold to losing your salvation? Is it what I watched porn yesterday? So I lost my salvation. Is that what it is one one time watching porn cause you to lose your salvation one time well You probably wouldn't say one time. Well, maybe two times. Maybe what 10 times 20 times Just you're struggling with it What about the people who before there was ever such thing as porn? What about them? You have the jc penny catalog and that what you think, right? Tell me how many sins does it take for you to get to the tootsie girl center of hell? How many sins does it take for you to lose your salvation? There's one if one time watching porn doesn't do it. Why not? There's my you're not gonna have an answer because there is no answer Are you with me? There there just is but again anyone else also other than other brother wants to come on Send me an email That is if you are in disagreement. Do I? Casper on that. Do I believe in the rapture? I do. I believe the church is not going to go through tribulation It's a whole other topic, but I do believe the church is not going to go through the tribulation But now the question I have to ask is why does Jesus have to come and die? What's the purpose? Well, because the under the old Atonement was made You're atone for today next year. You're not and that's why John 3 16 says that This is how he loved the world by by giving his son to die for us This is how God loves the world that he gave us one and only In order that the believing ones, which is why I said question what it what's meant by belief when you say you have to believe Do you mean continually believing you have to keep believing? Sure I agree And that's literally how Jesus how the bible describes christians, but let's continue I want to get to this point and then I want to go back to um Mr. Richardson, but he says He lays down his life or why If under the old people were already atoned for well this way under the old they were atoned for temporarily As long as they lived they had to adhere to the day of atonement to be atoned for and to be in Right standing their righteousness was built off of not what they did But about but from the atonement to stay in right standing But now Jesus has done better. We've got better elves. We got a better high priest. We got a better scapegoat. We have a better sacrifice And what's done? That's why the rise of hebrew says that it's done once for all Are you with me now? Let's get to Let's get to the main point Jesus says to them Verse 26 now he's he's having this conversation with him. He says but you do not believe You do not believe the reason why you don't believe Is because you are not my sheep so We can at least deduce from this That the people who don't believe the reason why they don't believe Jesus tells us plainly the reason why they don't believe it's because you're not my sheep You're not my sheep. So therefore you don't believe you're not mine You're the guys that are listening to different voices But those that listen to my voice they do believe which is what he said earlier in verses three four and five He says now verse 27 my sheep Hear my voice And I know them and they follow me So what do we know about the sheep again? Jesus reiterates it What do sheep do? Well, first of all, he knows his sheep. He says my sheep hear my voice President active president active indicative they are hearing my voice. They hear my voice Secondly I know them And my sheep also follow me So what do sheep do according to this passage hear his voice and follow them and then he says I know them Now He makes the assertion that verse 28 doesn't apply So as verse 20 just sitting out there by itself, you know, let me just take a passage that should be probably in Luke four Let's put it over here in John 10 and put it right there This absolutely applies that we're going to see and I asked him a question And he no no you don't get to say that that, um Well, I don't even get to that point. I'll I'll tell you what he's going to say a little bit But let's go to verse 28 verse 28 keeping in the same context. I I give them eternal life Who am I giving eternal life the sheep and they will never perish and this is the part we're talking about Who may I belong to which is they will never ever ever perish Nor and nor will anyone snatch them out of my hand my father who has given them to me is greater than all By the way, we need to understand this who gave the sheep to jesus I think that's important who gave the sheep to jesus his father God gave the sheep to jesus Are you with me? God gave us to jesus Amen Amen, god gave uh-oh god gave the sheep to jesus But he gave the sheep to jesus just just because well We read in john six that every last one that the sheep of the sheep that were given Every last one of those sheep that were given jesus says i'm gonna raise all of them up in the last day What'd you say? That's true. That that's true that really is true By the way, that's a wonderful haircut you got brother I I got a keen eye for guys with good haircuts. Amen But we got two million harrowings and we just accept anybody who says they are believers Anybody if i'm a christian Yeah, listen, I got four baby my god listen. I got three kids by four baby mamas Um, i'm in all kind of stuff. I every now and then i come to church Um, I also, you know think that there are probably different ways to get to god But i'm gonna do it through jesus because you know if my grandma came through jesus, so you i'm a christian too, you know So i'm a christian But we'll believe that that person's a christian so what he just what he deconstructs see another christian who lost his salvation He was never going to be to begin with Stop calling any and everybody a christian, please And I like this point right here. He says demas for suck Now we're off topic. I want you guys to stick with where I am But I just happen to catch it demas the bible in second in a second timothy Speaking about him. He says that there are three names mentioned with two other names mentioned with demas It just says that that that he forsook him. He left him Well, that's the first time because john mark also forsook him john mark also left him Which was the whole point of the dispute with um paul and barnes, but in that statement Who is demas also mentioned with he's mentioned with christian, which we don't know much about christian But he's also mentioned with Titus All three of these people have gone somewhere and left paul all three of them have left paul demas christians and titus Don't know about about christians, but we assume that because he says he loved this present world That didn't mean he lost lost his salvation number one number two He's in the same category with titus now if paul wanted to condemn him Why wouldn't paul just condemn him because you know what paul does do Paul goes on to condemn others as a matter of fact. He mentions alexander by name datney in that very same passage Just a few verses later He should have mentioned because If you go to if you're going to impugn alexander rightly so why would you not impugn demas? Are you with me so And another reason why we can say that demas was not a christian who lost his salvation because Jesus just said Sheep don't do that. Sheep don't turn away Sheep don't go the other way Are you with me? You've got to deal with what he what we know. He said that really isn't any ambiguity there I'm going to put the passage in just a second. Um, but Let me go back to um Let me go back to ak And unless you can prove that and you can't because the bible teaches that it happens Then you don't have an argument You see in other words it is Irrelevant to the discussion What we do not disagree about what we do not debate is that a believer has eternal life What we debate is that it is impossible for a believer to stop being a believer We and so again my point is where does the bible say that the believer will stop being a believer That's how many verses we have that says that there's no verses says a believer stops being a believer But jesus says that what sheep do is keep believing she believes she follows sheep here That's what sheep do We're also going to look at some passages that tell us that they will never ever ever ever turn away and he will never ever ever turn We're gonna look at that We're gonna look with that Yeah, that's what that's what I just said brother about demon. I literally I literally just said that and so You're gonna have to do two things one prove that demons was a believer But two that he that he actually lost his salvation He just said that he departed from paul. He did not say he noticed what he didn't say about demons He did not say that demons departed from the faith He said it's a part of him He left paul. Was he the first person to leave paul? No, it wasn't the last one either Is that everybody's left me all have gone their own ways notice the train of thought that he's having with demas They are all these folks have left their own way Okay, and gone their own way now He does speak of somebody who's not a brother and to be weary of this person. That is alexander among others Bait and disagree with the idea that a believer Can never become an unbeliever ever again Now you may believe that you may say other texts proves it But that argument that you're using And similar like this one he's using doesn't prove it at all He's got to be able to prove that the sheep will always be sheep and that they don't have the possibility Of stop following him in which they was now again, we don't we literally cover that We literally in john tan the sheep will be she Verse 16 nails it for us as gentiles But we're gonna see in just a little bit that that that we will not turn away from him And again, we're gonna focus on that word also the word Uh for believe what's meant by believe do you have to keep believing and i'm saying this intentionally Do you have to keep believing in order to be a christian? Uh december quick says have you Have you seen any i've probably have seen the emails Um, I have gotten so Wait a minute. I think I did see the one about the that you're speaking of december about the isiah robbins Um, I think I did I think I clicked on it and watched a video. I think Is this the guy with the the trinity guy that the guy that also denies a trinity? I'm not sure that same person or not or whatever, but I'll tell you what I'll do I'll go back and look at it again. Um, I think I I'm pretty sure I did and I'm I'm I'm behind on time, but anyway, let's continue with what do you say sees to be sheep? You see now he may say well now about sheep They will always be sheep. Well, that's a different argument now. You know, it's not it's not a different argument It's the exact same argument. It's the same thought sheep will always be sheep and for that reason if you are a sheep today You're a sheep forever once sheep always sheep. There's a new osas once sheep always sheep According to john 10. That's why he makes this definitive declarative statement in verse 28 In verse 28, I give these people these sheep will always be my sheep I give them eternal life and they will never perish It is not to say because he wants to make that this doesn't apply to this and it absolutely I'm going to use some grammarians to back me up on this, but he says that uh, you have to stay a sheep Well, wait a minute. So I have to sheep have to get the home base Well, why would you say the sheep right now have and the bible the bible does say that sheep right now do have eternal life And so he's saying that yeah once they finish being a sheep and then make it to heaven, they'll never lose it Well, why but who thinks that? That's not an argument anyone makes everyone knows that once you get it then you got it So the point is he's trying to give them comfort for now Because what are they used to they're used to having to have their sins atone for every year Have them be put back in right standing every year year after year after year It's a different argument. You've left the double negation Realizing that the double negation is only for the sheep This is my point. I don't understand how he misses it. Well, I know how it's because you you you are just just Just bent on saying that this doesn't apply when clearly it applies. It's literally it's literally an exact same train of thought The double negation that you will never ever ever lose your salvation Is literally in the train of thought we're talking about sheep. And so he says for you sheep You will never ever and I'm gonna pull up what this pat what this because I might even given the full meaning of this Um, but I want to show you what this grammatical rule means in just a second Not for those who are no longer sheep To make a different argument about how the sheep can never become anything but sheep Is there a past that says a sheep could never become anything other than sheep? Is there ever a pastor that says a sheep could ever become anything other than sheep? Remember God gave them as sheep And he says that he will also Bring every last race every last one of his sheep up in the last day and will not lose one sheep. You see you You've went on to another argument. Let's say for the sake of discussion It is true that the sheep who hear his voice and follow him Won't ever be anything but the sheep who follow him and it's it's impossible that they would ever be anything But the sheep once they are the sheep But that's a different argument even if it's true No, it's not different and let me grant to you that it's true for the sake of discussion It's a different argument Than this it's a different argument to say they will never perish now the burden of proof is on you to say You can never become anything but a sheep But Jesus literally just said that they will be sheep that will follow him They will not turn away. They will never listen to another voice as a matter of fact They will flee another voice. So what what what causes a person? Do you think there has to be something outside of them causing them to leave? Do you think that uh, if a sheep departs if a sheep stops following if a sheep stops hearing Do you think that do you think that they are hearing something else? end of this video This gentleman here who's making this now listen to this listen to his argument As to why he thinks that he won That he Overcame this If you could prove my exegesis of this grammatical rule wrong, I'll take down my channel. Well There's no way he's going to take down his channel. I don't believe that He just will not be convinced that he's been disproven I could say the exact same thing for him I can't say that if he was truly convinced that he wouldn't I'm not saying he wouldn't be an honest person But as I said jesus, I mean his exegesis Prodian slip I remember I was on his side I used to be on his side. I'm not I said anything. I'm not I'm reading literally what it says It literally says that one sheep hear his voice sheep follow Sheep will not listen to someone else's voice. Sheep will not follow strangers. As a matter of fact, they will flee It says that they will a sheep in john in 1016 that we will hear his voice And those very same sheep that he's talking of he says that he gives eternal life and they shall never ever perish Now he goes on to say that no one can snatch them out of my hand. Well, what if you walk away? Well, he just covered that whole point. He just covered that entire point that you will never ever walk away Is absolutely false. You see what he says about the the grammatical Combination of u and may is true But that's not what we're talking about when we talk about his exegesis You see because his exegesis includes If the sheep can never perish then one saved always say well, no, you can't say that because that that assumes a sheep can never become Goats as dr. Costin says But that's a different argument I would even ask you to point to a greek Gramarian to refute my claim and back up yours. And this is what I'm asking myself I would ask him because I happen to see where he's on so obviously I got been charged and asked him To find a greek grammarian that would back up your claim and refute mine. Well, I just did That's his response. I just did I I just did no no not you I want you find a greek grammarian find someone who writes a textbook someone who understands the rule and applies this and say that I'm incorrect Well, first of all, there's plenty of greek grammarians who don't believe in one saved always saved And that party's right. There are greek grammarians, but they won't they don't deal with the text They just do not let's go to now. He has this particular book And I've seen him use this book to to defend his point And so I'll go to this I'll go to this very same and the reason there's a reason why we go to this particular person Because he is one of the stalwarts when it comes to greek grammar and so forth and that again is Um, danuelas and this book greek grammar beyond the basics And let's look at some examples that he brings up regarding. There's a rule called the emphatic negation of a subjunctive there's also an emphatic And an emphatic negation using a future indicative as well And so let's go ahead and it's going to be kind of nerdy for a second But I want y'all to hear the rule and I want when we get to the how it's applied to verse 10 28 I want y'all to I want you all to hear what this rule Also means it's going to imply or should I say negate something that happens in the future? Let me say it again There is an implication of the rule not us It's just the rule every language has rules as a matter of fact paul even says Aren't all languages without understanding. There's rules that go with these languages With hebrew with air make with greek english spanish What have you there are rules and the rule for this this is a brand new rule It's just the rule then there's a reason why jesus employs this because they use it with other things as well There's a future Implication that bothers a lot of people except for us But let me just put the rule up. He says the emphatic negation of a subjunctive States this It is indicated by ooh may plus the aris subjunctive or less frequently ooh may plus the future indicative Now here are some examples of the future indicator matter of fact Let's let's look back on the screen A future indicative is a word that says this will happen And so if you say ooh may those are two words that indicate no not never both of it So you put them back to back in english as bad english But with us with with greek as good greek It's the surest way to negate something from happening But more to the point is the surest way to negate something from happening in the future A subjunctive is a word that conveys possibility this may happen But if you doubling negate that it is impossible for it to happen Well Why would it be impot? Why would you apply that to heaven if you're in heaven once you're in heaven? It's impossible to perish. I've already passed from death as jesus says We have already passed from death and now we have life And so it wouldn't even make any sense to use this in regards to heaven This is talking about us in our walk right now as sheep. And so let's get back to the word he says Ooh may plus the error subjunctive or less frequently ooh may plus the future indicative This is the strongest way to negate something in the future. I mean in greek one might think The negative with the subjunctive could not be as strong as the negative with the indicative. However While ooh plus the indicative denies certainty Ooh may plus the subjunctive denies a potentiality the reason now what they're saying is this If you think there's a possibility of something happening Is there a way in greek to say Not even the possibility is possible It's impossible for the possibility to happen Are you with me? It's the surest way to negate Anything from happening if I use this rule if I imply this rule, and of course they were doing so in the greek back then If I bring this up it is impossible For anything of the such to happen Are you with me? He says continuing says the negative is not weaker rather the affirmation that is being negative type is less firm With a subjunctive ooh may look what it says now Listen to this point that i'm about to make pay attention and i'm getting ready to bring some folks on But he says the ooh may rules out even the possibility even being a possibility Ooh may look what it says is the most decisive way Negativing something in the future Negativing something in the future so meaning when jesus makes a statement If you are a sheep nothing in the future is going to ever cause you to not be a sheep That's pretty strong. Well, jesus can make that statement now By the way, this statement didn't only apply to one saved always saver what we're trying to apply it to it applies other things As a matter of fact, Matthew Matthew 2435 This word says this past says heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away where it says uh, ha loy goy move ooh may so here you have the double negation and then Pal pathosan, which is pass away. It is impossible for them to pass away now Is he going to say that um the rule is correct? But you can't apply that to what jesus just said in Matthew 24. Yeah, you can that's the whole point of using that Same thing in john 10 28 and so he says they will never ever ever ever ever pass away It is impossible jesus says for his words to pass away. We all agree with that Well, if the rule means that there you can apply it there. Why can't you apply to this? The reason why he didn't want to apply to that is because It nullifies his stance as a church of christ person as a person who believes that you can lose your salvation Are you with me? But it says it negatized even the possibility of something in the future happening, which is why he says they will never Stop believing they will never stop hearing. They will never stop following. They will never They will never turn away How can how can he make the statement that they will never turn away? Well, god said it first God the father says so In jeremiah 32 let's go to jeremiah 32. He says and i will give them one heart and one way By the way, this is him speaking of when he puts his spirit in people He says god says i will give them one heart and one way that they may fear me always for their own good For their own good and for the good of their children after them. Look what he says verse 40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them That I will look what he says I will not turn away from them God literally just says right here guys. I will not turn those one put my spirit in In their heart. I will not turn away from them. Can someone interpret that to mean anything other than He will not turn away. Do you see any room? To believe that he will turn away from the sheep from his people then He says I will put my fear The fear of me in their heart so that they will not turn away from me now We've got a statement from god that says I will not turn away from them and they will not turn away from me If that is the case, why then will anyone say that Jesus will or that we will ever turn away from him We just will not If studio savage is still there. I am sending you the the link Just click on the oh Just click on the link and I'll bring you on board All right, make sure you have your camera up So I can see you And then we'll move forward so While I'm there. Let me And by the way, one of the questions that I always wondered is this If you guys who especially the people that disagree if you guys had a choice What would you rather? Would you rather the possibility of losing your salvation or the possibility of not losing your salvation? What what would you rather have? Would you rather be that I could never lose my salvation or that I could lose my salvation? I spoke with one guy. He said I think it's better. Uh, the possibility of losing your salvation is there really Because you don't apply it to anything else Would you rather the possibility of you losing your children or not losing your children? Losing your inheritance and all your savings are not losing it losing your life or not lose What's the pot? Which possibility would you rather not have or have? It would rather not lose the most important thing that you have which is your salvation So once sheep always sheep now I'm so and I don't know if he's still there Oh, okay. Here he is. Let me go ahead and bring him on Oh, I'm sorry. Let me put put on the right screen Uh me and guest. Okay. All right, brother. How you doing? Man, I'm blessed. How are you? I am I'm wonderful. I'm wonderful. How so so now you disagree Now without going to because the tendency is going to be to go to all these other pastors You said I'm twisting scriptures. What passage in John 10 And by the way, I don't wish to think I'm taking any offense. I really don't but what passage in John 10 Do you think I have I have twisted? Um, I didn't I wasn't talking about John 10. I was talking about when a young lady brought the scripture to you in Hebrews the sixth chapter Okay, well, okay. That's fine. What what about Hebrew six that I did I twist? Um, well your explanation of that Yeah, particular scripture. I don't I don't agree with that being um The actual meaning of that scripture, but I want to ask a question before we you know go too far So I'll know if we are indeed disagreeing I don't want to assume that we're disagreeing But I do believe we are Okay And so my question to you is Are you saying emphatically that everyone that is saved I believe in Of the Holy Spirit. I'm gonna do do you Subscribe to you believe what spirit to begin? I didn't hear it again One more time Okay, can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you but but I didn't I didn't quite you believe in what of the Holy Spirit I believe must have the Holy Spirit. Yes Okay, I believe in the Holy Spirit So my question is Are you saying that everyone that has the Holy Spirit? That's how I believe salvation I have that Holy Spirit Are you saying that everyone that has the Holy Spirit when they stand before God? Would there be through death I don't believe that those that are rejected of God will ever be raptured But when they die that there is an automatic well done my good and faithful servant Given to them because they have the Holy Spirit Yeah, the the the the key identifying mark of every believer is the Holy Spirit If you have the Spirit you are a son of God If you do not have the Holy Spirit, you are not his and so if a person find if a person now we don't we can't I don't have a magnifying glass or um A set of a microscope to look and see if the person actually has the Holy Spirit But if a person has the Holy Spirit in him or her That person is a Christian if you do not have the Holy Spirit You are not a Christian Paul says that all of us have been baptized into the Holy Spirit John was talking about how yeah, I'm baptized in water But when Jesus comes he is going to baptize you in the Holy Spirit And so the identifying mark of anyone who is a believer is the Holy Spirit Okay, so we agree on that. I definitely agree on that um I believe I believe where we disagree and I think me and some of your And and I love them love you too. I love to listen to you But what I disagree is is your take on eternal life And when people speak on Because you've been given eternal life That you're going to automatically make it into the kingdom. There's too many scriptures that refute that particular position and When you really look at what it means by eternal life it is not speaking of A chronological Living forever in that sense even though we will live forever But we will live forever Even if we're not saved the soul that sin is going to live forever in hell Yeah, but we just don't call that eternal life though. But but okay Let me let me so so I think that sometimes When they speak on eternal life or with the way that they understand eternal life I think that that's incorrect eternal life doesn't have a beginning or end. It's just eternal right John speaks of that life In john in st. John in the gospel according to john that life which was with the father in the beginning And it is talking about Jesus We've been given the life of christ. That's the eternal life that we've been given But can we as christians reject that life? The bible shows where we can actually reject our that life that was given to us And I think that in hebrew six hebrew six is a very good um Example of my statement or my position It shows when he's talking about stop preaching the same things or laying the The foundations of repentance from sins and dead works and stop preaching certain things and let us go on to perfection but then he says Why he is saying stop preaching these things He said because if those that have tasted of the heavenly gift And have been enlightened If they should fall away it is impossible to renew them into repentance Now when I heard you explain that Your explanation I don't agree with now. I will say that I love the way that you um You implement the greek translation But your explanation of that scripture It is no longer allowing me to take the scripture at face value And I have to take the scripture at face value because if I don't then my salvation begins to crumble because my salvation is Hanged upon what the word actually says not not How someone Spiritualize it or give their interpretation of it But what actually came out of the mouth of god as in Matthew 4 when Jesus said man should not live by bread alone But by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of god. That's how I'm living I'm living out of what god actually said not what I would accept not what I would prefer and according to Hebrews the writer of Hebrews 6 It says for it is impossible for those who once enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift And were made partakers of the holy ghost and have tasted of the good word of god And the powers of the world to come if they shall fall away to renew them again to repentance Why is it impossible seeing they crucified themselves the son of god not the roman soldiers Not the Pharisees, but in themselves. They have rejected And he used the analogy of crucifixion. They crucified the son of god to themselves They had him and they crucified the son of god to themselves um So my question's this so my question is this really too More than two parts, but Do you do you ascribe to if a person loses their salvation? They can never get it back Can you explain when you say lose their salvation or they lose their life? What have you if a person stops believing? If a person falls away using the passage if a person falls away Can they ever come back can never return? I feel like there is a such thing called reprobate mind I feel like the bible says because when they knew god they they glorified him not as god and i'm paraphrasing that And he turned them but my question is So oh, so you say if a person falls away if a person was Once a believer and then stop being a believer they can never come back and be a believer again I'm saying I believe according to this scripture If we're just sticking with the bible and not becoming opinionated According to this bible if I have christ in me And I crucify him to myself right If I crucify him to myself I can reject god and I can never be renewed again to repent as according to the bible So if a christian I'm trying to figure out if you're saying that I'm trying to figure out Okay, you don't you don't believe that the person is a sheep today that that's a guarantee for them to be a sheep forever right um now I I have to explain how I judge if a person is a sheep And how you all are coming to that conclusion and the hermeneutics that you all are using to come to the conclusion about sheep and goats, right? When jesus speaks about the sheep He's speaking from a position of the spirit And how he can prophetically see their end He can see just like he says have not not chosen all 12 of you, but one of you is a devil Way before We know of judas even come into the conclusion that that's who he is Jesus knew so when he speaks of the sheep It is because he has foresight and foreknowledge and he can see if this person is actually a sheep He can see if this person is actually a goat. So I don't believe that a person can start out a sheep and then end up a goat I will say that Okay, well that sounds like you believe what I believe there We're close in belief. I'm not I'm not okay. So here's my second question about Hebrews 6 Who's it written to? I feel like the word of God is written to the body of christ Okay, it can be applied but but primarily who is the book of Hebrews written to I know you're using the the fact that is written to the Hebrews Um to the saints that are in that are Hebrews But it is still in the bible for the body of christ. It's not there just so hard for our study It's something about he makes him he makes a point He makes points that we can apply to But let's say let's say if the the letter written to the book of to the Hebrews Do you think the people in Galatia if they read that book that they would understand because he's getting Galatia We don't have Jews there. We have we have Gentiles there who have no idea what the law was about And the book of Hebrews brings up all these things about the law the high priests and so forth the scapegoat and The uh the propitiaries they have they have no idea about that Do you think now obviously us as we look at this we understand we've got the the entire council guy that's written before us Just his written word and so we know he's speaking to to jews One it's the title to the Hebrews to the jews right it's literally written to them Just like the letter uh at Corinth is written to them because he's referring to something they asked about You formally asked about this now. I'm writing you this also also concerning this also concerning marriage Also concerning spiritual gifts, right? So this book is specifically written to the jews to these Hebrews Although we can also get something from that as well. There are some truths in that that we also gain from that Primarily that is we are all saved by the atonement of christ on the cross And he brings us up to these jews in hebrew because they understand the atonement They understand that uh my sins are atoned for and i'm in right standing every year But each year i've got to keep doing this year after year after year as a matter of fact Even the midst of that i've got to bring if i mess up i can bring a sin offering I can bring a thanksgiving offering all these different things that are brought up in the book of Hebrews That people in galatia wouldn't have any idea what what is that about? But they do understand that yeah I know you have to turn your volume down or get the feedback from me Do you hear me? Oh my bad Okay, so what we what we know is The hebrew the book of the book because it's literally called to the Hebrews That's literally the title of the of the letter and so We can glean from it But we and we see a truth He is trying to comfort them because after six after he goes to this he goes on trying to comfort them Which is why he says we can approach him with full assurance We can know he did it one time and that we are we are being perfected by his one offering He is trying to comfort them because in their mind all they know is I gotta do this year after year after year I can go from being atoned for and in right standing this year to the Following year not be atoned for and so he makes that clear in chapter eight nine and ten and eleven and he brings up the fact that the old covenant That I that was made with our fathers or your fathers their fathers not out not gentiles for fathers Is now done away with and a new one is brought in that's Clearly to The jews can that apply can we find how that applies us as well? Sure But he's speaking specifically to the jews because this is something they have to deal with right Just like if we go and read what's happening in exodus He's not this isn't written to us. It's written or leviticus The book of leviticus is not written to gentiles Would you agree that that is written to to jews under the law and he's giving them the mandates Of the law the dictates of the law Can we get something out of that? Sure we could should we act? We absolutely can but still the book is not written to us And so that's why he makes a statement. We're fine if you think you can you taste the goodness of god If you were to fall away If you were to fall away And by the way he uses it this statement of being fall away, which he typically uses when regarding jews, which we're using in glacians 5 about falling away If you fall away you there is nothing that's going to bring you back You know, he's not getting back on the cross now. The issue is Can a christian a sheep? Someone with the holy spirit ever fall away Could they ever turn away and that's why I brought up what god says prophetically of Of people who he's going to put his holy spirit into we all we both agree That a christian a true christian has a holy spirit just because james says or frank says or mary says she's a christian But doesn't have the holy spirit. I don't mean anything right How do we say a pair of lips can say anything and what's happening is we've judged everybody who calls himself a christian As though they're a true christian with nothing to be further from the truth But god says that when he puts his spirit in us Because you know like i know it's hard out there Is it's rough and it's all these things coming at us coming at us as men coming at us as women coming at us as believers There's got to be something in us that keeps us. Well, that's the holy spirit Greater is he the holy spirit that's in us me and you then he that's the devil the enemy that's in the world And he says he who began to get working us as god is faithful. Wow because we have the holy spirit That's why god makes a statement in jeremiah 32 That I will never turn away from them and when I put my spirit in them They will never turn away from me. Well if god says that I will never turn away from them and that they The very people that he put his spirit in they will never turn away Well, then what we have is no one turned away from anybody Would you agree or would you disagree? I had done mute me with my mic. Can you hear me now? Uh-huh Um, I do agree with with the terminology about him. He will not turn away But I still feel like that's prophetic as it relates to our end And our end if we can if we complete this walk In holiness and righteousness, then yes, we will hear well done. I believe that what What I would ask you Is what do you feel like jesus means? In st. John the 15th chapter when he says I am the true vine, right? And we are instructed to abide in him, right? He calls us the branches So it lets us know who we're who he's talking to Right, it lets us know who he's talking to he's talking about those that would be in him Right and he's and that once again a lot of what jesus is saying is prophetic because we know that this is before The day of pentecost when the disciples actually received the holy spirit Right, but he's he's speaking to them from a position of the spirit and he says I am the true vine My father's the husband man when we know that part Right, but he says As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself Except it abide in the vine no more can ye accept ye abide in me I am the vine ye are the branches he that abided in me and I in him the same Um bringing forth much fruit for without me you can do nothing if a man abided not in me He is cast forth as a branch If a man abided not in me is cast forth. So if I choose to not to Stop abiding in christ Do I still die and go to heaven? That's my question That was brother Mike let me say this that was one of the let me pick something on here too That was one of the things that used to used to vex me as a matter of fact Here I am as a Um, I'm actually I'm actually one of the associate pastor of the church that believe that you could not lose your salvation But I'm sitting there thinking that you know what you can lose your salvation And this was one of the pastors that I that I ran to this one. Uh, couple of pastors and john Galatians 5 james James 5 and so forth and so but this is one of the ones that I went to and I said see it's clear Let's put it back on the screen It's clear says if you abided me and my words abiding you ask whatever you wish and it will be done But he just said verse 6 if anyone does not abiding me. He is thrown away As a branch and drives up and they gather them and cast them into the fire and they are burned And I'll I'll never forget sitting there talking to uh, the senior pastor happens to be uh, he's passed away now, but This was dr. Bowden as a professor at at at dts was saying, okay, kory. You're absolutely right And so I'll say the same thing mic and everyone else absolutely right if if you do not abide Let me say this loud and clear if you do not abide Then he says, uh, you will be thrown away. You'll be cut off thrown away and then You'll be with it up be with it up gather together and throw in the fire If you do not abide and you don't bear fruit, you will be cut off and we'll go to hell that part is clear The question is will you abide? Because what he told me is what I said everyone else if this is applying to us Well, then why don't we just keep reading because if we keep reading in in this very same conversation Jesus happened in John 15 he says verse Let's start verse 12. He says this is my commandment that you love one another Just as I've loved you greater love has no one that he late than this that he laid down his life for a friend You are you are my friend if you do what I command you No longer do I call you slaves for the slave does not know what his master is doing But I have I have called you friends for all things that I have heard from my father I've made only you here it is verse 16. You did not choose me But I Chose you and what I chose choose you to do and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit and that your fruit would remain So now here's a question Are we going to abide and are we going to remain according to what Jesus just said in verse 16? The answer is yes Why because if he chose you he's not gonna just you know, I choose you now go on and do what you can't do Go do what no one has ever in the history of the world done that is to remain faithful So I'll give you my spirit. That's what Ezekiel 36 says that when he puts his spirit What is he gonna do when the spirit is putting us? I'm gonna cause us according to Ezekiel 36 He's it's going to cause us the spirit being us cause us to walk in his teachings Now folks get bothered by that But I didn't write it. God said he is going to cause us to walk So will we ever reject him? No, will we ever turn away? No, he's gonna cause us and so it's not At the end when we get to the end that we're saved matter of fact, I got a pastor for that as well No, he's saying I'm going to put my spirit in you and cause you to walk the problem that People have here in America here in in China here in Canada and everywhere else is that we're just riding people Me you and everybody else we know go you got any kids by the way Mike Mike he mutinous this thing. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. Okay. How are we? I I'm I'm muted because I don't want the echo and in the feedback in your mic What what you do is go to your go to your youtube setting and just turn the volume off on youtube Not on your computer. Turn the volume off on youtube That way you can keep your volume on your computer up Okay, I think I just did that. Okay now How many how are your kids? How many kids? No, no. How old are you kids? How old are my my kids? Yeah, 224 year olds Um 224 year olds. Oh my god, you good. I got seven girls Hold on. Wait a second. Hold up. Wait a second. Wait a second. Where's my water at? Where's my water at? Wow, I got four you in trouble Okay, so pray for me. I'm praying for you, bro. I'm praying for you now Because I know you like me anybody anybody Right or wrong mess with my babies. You've got a problem But now when they were little bitty kids The boys or girls They would do stuff like just like wow. I got a grandson There are days. He just looked at me like he like he ready to fight. He just does his own thing It's just natural with kids, right? and so I use this analogy and it's probably happened some way shippin on fashion with you The kid wants some cookies. You tell him no No, you can't have any cookies leave the room come back cookies busted wide open Cookie crumbs on the floor and on his face and shirt and you asked him Did you eat the cookies? What's he gonna say? No Why well because he's a natural she is he is we are natural born liars It's just in us And so what god is not going to do is leave up the greatest gift that you and I could ever get up to our natural ability Which is to just throw it away just to mess it up It's what we do. We like the guy in like can't get right We just we go mess it up can't get right and so what he's going to do is he's going to put his spirit in us Jesus calls that being born again. Can that they know from being born from above by his spirit? Titus calls it that peter calls it being born again born from above We have a new heart that Jeremiah and Ezekiel tells us that god is going to do is going to put it in us Because the one thing we can't do is stay faithful. So he's going to put this heart in us That's going to be full of his spirit And cause us to walk right Because we're just wayward people and so what he says is When the heart has changed, uh, you know what I now this faith that I need to have in christ It's there and I want to read a passage about what he says about us in john six I think this is one of my favorites. I think it's I think it settles it But john 646 look what he says he says truly truly I say to you that he who believes Has eternal life Now what it states is that he who believes whoever the person is by the way is the present active participle The believing ones like when the guy was saying earlier that you have to believe well, sure What do you mean by believe I believe you have to keep believing That's what the bible says too the bible says you have to keep believing But the bible knows of no such believer who isn't believing And so if you are believing Guess what's going to happen if you are believing right now if you are a believer right now Look what jesus just said he says you he has Okay, this is present tense. He has zoe and anio means he has life Forever eternal so he has life Right now He has it right at this very instant And when does that life we're talking about a new life the spiritual life when does it in never forever And the reason for that another another reason for that while we can Another verse we can hang our hat on is in Ephesians 113 When I said that he gives us his holy spirit. Look what he says in him You also when you heard the word Well, what what do we what do we say sheep do sheep here? So when she when when a sheep heard the word Of truth the gospel of your salvation. He says you believe and by the way, this word believe Is the is the greek word? Pistru sante, which is we are it is the eras active participle So we began believing in the past when we are continually believing He says when you believe as you were believing in him in the past. Look what he says you were sealed See that's a protection with the promised holy spirit That promised holy spirit that he promised to give us and look what he says Who is the holy spirit is the guarantee this holy spirit? They put in us is a guarantee of Our inheritance until we acquire possession of it meaning He is our down payment until we get there meaning we gonna get there There is no it's like you put a down payment somewhere here in america on a hotel or car or what have you The down payment is for you to get it that somebody will say well, yeah, but you can lose your down payment Well, not god ain't we're talking about god and his honor his reputation his credit is on the line He gave us not money as a down payment But the holy spirit and he's ours until we take possession of heaven And so for that reason It'd be difficult to see that we have the holy spirit until we get to heaven. That's the point of of us having him God has says he's gonna put his spirit on us and we'll never depart. Well, he'll cause us to walk in his teachings Jeremiah god says that I will never turn away from you when I do that and you will never turn away from me Jesus says it is literally according to the greek grammar. It is impossible for you To perish and john six he states that if you are believing if you are sheep and believe today you have today life forever Now the warning passes come in Because there are people that you and I know who called themselves christian And they don't they don't we we know or we think or maybe we don't know There are people who call themselves christians you go to church. There's some folks that go to church Everybody at your church ain't say Well, how do I get the word out that you need to check yourself? Make sure As the old as the old song say check yourself for your records. How do you check yourself? Well, paul says jesus says we got to throw up the scriptures Examine yourself the reason why there are warning passages is to warn you to make sure you check I don't want you going around thinking you're saving you're not Just because you go to church just because you got a big bible just because you can quote the scriptures Well, they identify mark of the believer is the holy spirit. How do you know? Well, now some folks gonna say this is works based salvation It's not but if you are saved there's going to be some works in you You ain't gonna maybe outwardly or inwardly But you should be able if no one else can see the the change in you brought about by the holy spirit And so if you don't see that if you can't tell if you can't tell Well, then maybe you ain't but whether you are not paul says to examine yourself guys make sure Make sure you got your tickets You don't listen the train isn't the train is at the station Make sure you got your tickets because if you ain't or make sure you're saved make sure you are his if not then And i've given you numerous opportunities to place your faith in me You just didn't want to because you were having a good time with her or with him or whatever you were doing You were just enjoying your life too much and so he says make sure guys Jesus says not everyone says me lord lord She'll enter the kingdom. Let me see this Okay, somebody said let me see what he says Um, I don't know if this person's at i'm sorry. I'm doing two things. I want I don't know if this person is asking to come on Um, timothy evinth. I'm not sure if you're asking to come on. You're just making a statement If so, you can click the link and come on as well Charlie says thank you And so that's that's the whole point It is we've got a message for those of us who do believe who are actual christians That we don't have to have that we are comforted The second message part of that is Make sure you are if indeed you are because when he says now unto him who is able to keep us If he's able to keep us He's able to keep us, but he doesn't Make that makes sense. He's able to keep us. I'm able to keep you, but I won't Well, why'd you tell us you able to keep us? Um and a note to all your future guests. I want you all to be respectful like I've been respectful We sound allowed the man to just speak and this is his platform and he just you know Establish his his understanding or explanation of it, but anyway Um, yes, he's able to keep us, but we have to want to be kept God does not usurp authority over our will You know, and that's what that's also what he grew is talking about when it says willfully sin God does not Make us live holy. He gives us the holy spirit as you said And I definitely am an advocate of the power of the holy ghost And it gives us the power to live holy if I was a liar The holy spirit can change this lying tongue and make it a tongue that tells the truth You know, but he never usurps authority over my will And if I choose unrighteousness, um, I'm sure you would know the scripture Um that speaks about like a dog going back to his vomit when it talks about It's like you know So and and and um paul also made a statement if I build again those things that that I've torn down I make myself a trans a trespass or a transgressor If we in our hearts reject what god is done by way of salvation Then we are those that he sees speaking of that chose not to abide I agree eternal life that he gave us and yes, he can he indeed can keep us but god is not You know how people check themselves into the rehab center and and they say Take away my rights and I cannot leave until I'm free of this drug. God is not like that I can come into god and he filled me with this spirit He'll fill me with this spirit, but I can choose You know what? I no longer want to live holy I I don't want to live holy. I don't want to live right now I feel like there's a question formulating in your mind like well if I'm a sheep Why would I ever choose that that I don't have the answer to but I have seen people that I knew once new god What's new god? How do you know how do you know that? You should know the tree by the fruit that it bears. Okay. Hold on. I have seen The fruit of the holy spirit in them, you know I'm let you finish. I'm let you finish. I'm let you finish. I this is just me. I'm sorry But didn't Jesus Didn't Jesus tell some people who did some works Say that one more time they were christian He said you've done all these wonderful things in my name cast out demons in my name and prophesied All these wonderful things and what does he still say? I never knew you So isn't it possible for someone to look like act like look like they got some fruits But aren't The way that I understand that I understand that going back to If a man lives righteous his whole life And then at the end of his life choose to live unrighteous All of his righteousness will be forgotten according to the scriptures. You remember that scripture Is eagle 18, but what does God do about that? Right? And so that scripture is confirming what you just quoted Those people they started out in his name. Now. I love the fact that you were one of the teachers That actually accurately explained in his name It's not saying in the name of Jesus, but in his ownership. Are you there were people that were We're in God casting out demons Doing all these different things But they didn't end in God because they didn't choose holiness at the end And so all of their righteousness has been forgotten and God says I I never know you. I never knew you I know a man. What would you say though? Say that again You just said they didn't they didn't choose God till the end or something like that But Jesus says I never not I used to know you It wasn't I used to know you and you walked away. He says I never knew you So it'd be hard to say that they used to and then the passage that we bring up Uh second Peter A dog returns to his vomit Didn't say his sheep returns to his vomit But a dog and he's speaking of these false teachers. He's false prophets. He's false preachers, right? And so he saw he's talking about them if we're gonna keep it in context and he calls them dogs They return to their vomit, but we don't have a passage where it says Sheep don't but I want to ask you this question about this passage But but we must know that he's using he's using dog as an analogy though Using dog as an analogy and I also want I also want to address something before we go too far away from it when you were in St. John when we were in st. John previously Right now you applied a methodology of being specific Saying that Paul was specifically speaking to the Hebrews In Hebrews 6. I believe that's where we were But now when Jesus is specifically Speaking to the disciples you took that and gave that to all those that are saved Now in the beginning of st. John 15 Jesus is specifically talking to to all those that will be born again He said I am the true vine. Yeah, the branch. Okay, but now he's talking but now he specifies and starts talking In a more exclusiveness to the disciples saying I have chosen you and you know, I use that you're going to make it But go ahead. Here's why But but but that but what he said there that's not for every believer to say, okay, because I'm chosen of christ That may be true that I've made it but brother might that might be true Because why if it's not true, why are Why are we working out our salvation with fear and fear? Hold on hold on I'm sorry. That John 15 passage May not apply to us. You're right. It may he may very well be speaking to just his disciples But notice You brought that passage up to say that we must remain So if you're going to bring that pass up to say that we must remain in a bite Well, then let's finish it It may be that he's only speaking to his his disciples But I didn't see I don't I don't go to that passage others do And if you're going to go there, well, then don't you can't say the first part where you can be cut off applies to us But the second part that you're going to definitely abide and remain Belongs to them. No, it's a it's a whole conversation that Jesus is having So I so you're the one that brought that up not me and everyone else. No, I keep saying Yeah, right. One of the things that pass up. It says we must remain they bring that passage up Okay Well, if we must remain doesn't Jesus say that we are going to remain If it's applying us if it doesn't that's fine if John 15 does not apply to us. That's fine. I'll take that's not what I'm saying I'm saying as as the chapter progresses He's talking to his disciples about how he chose them And what he sees in them and what he's and what he sees of their future But in the beginning he's simply seeing who he is and he's simply saying what a man must do That abides in him. He's not he's not just saying that for the disciples alone in the beginning But as those chapter progresses, he's saying I've chosen you. You didn't chose choose me He's That is he didn't say that to you and to me He was talking to peter and and john and different ones that were standing right before him How do we know? How do we know then That he wasn't talking that he was talking to all of us in the beginning of john 15 Because he's speaking to the disciples This is one continual thought from john 14 15 and 16 that jesus speaking about when he's leaving and he's got his disciples together And so he's letting the guy that i'm getting ready to go i'm getting ready to go right And so he's speaking specifically to them And so if we're going to say if we're going to say we must abide using john 15 And it applies us there is no train of thought there's no grammatical key to tells us that he's that he stops talking to just them And now he's talking to everybody else Because the only ones that around him at that time are just those anyway. So it's not like hey, i'm talking to you guys Now y'all got to remain No, that's not how that works the way we know is by the wording Um brother quarry right? The way we know is by the wording in the wording in the beginning He's saying if a man he didn't say if you peter if you john He's saying if a man abiding me Let's go back to a branch He's using words like that a very general way, but then he used a very specific word when he said you Okay, that's how that's how the chapter progresses Okay, let's go back to it. This is my commandment that you that you love one another Okay, this is my commandment in order that you love And it's the plural present. So he's speaking of poorly so though though So now is he speaking poorly of just Everyone or just them this is my commandment that you love one another just as I have loved you. Who is he speaking to? No, we all he's telling all all of us to love He's not speaking to just the disciples I'm speaking on the part that you mentioned when he was saying about You will not fail or you will not be turned away. Okay. Let's let's say okay So so if I should go to that scripture too It's right there on the screen if this is my commandment that you love one another Just as I have loved you Is he speaking of the disciples only? Or is he speaking of all of us? He's speaking to the disciples, but it but it is definitely something that can be applied to us as well Okay So that would be ludicrous to say it not so greater love has no one than this that he laid down his life for for friends He says you are my friends if you do what I command you to do. He's still speaking to disciples, right? He's speaking to his disciples. Okay the very next verse no longer Do I call you slaves for the slave does not know what his master's doing? But I have called you friends for all things that I have heard from my father. I've made known to you He's still talking to disciples I would say yes Okay, but but now you also just said that it applies to us as well Say that one more time. So does this also apply to us as well? Yes, we can apply that if we are abiding if we if we satisfy what he is saying If our life can reconcile with what he is saying far as the love and and and if we are indeed born again And all of those things then yes, it can apply to us Okay, so it applies us But then you're saying verse 16 does not apply to us You did not choose me, but I chose you an appointed that you should go and bear fruit Does that is that only apply to them or does it apply to us also? I'm I'm saying in that particular passage of scripture He is specifically saying to those to those 12 That he chose them that they didn't choose him. He chose them. Did he choose us? Did he choose us? Yeah, he chose us as well. We were chosen before the foundation of the world to be exact Okay, but that that choosing is not what he's talking about right there John says the very same John says that you didn't love me. I loved you first and you love me Is that for us as well in first John? Yes, okay So there's imagery that you see that he also seems to apply to us now again It doesn't matter to me if a person wants to apply this to to just the disciples or to all of us, but the point is This is one complete thought he didn't go to speaking to every He's speaking to the disciples in chapter 14 then goes speaking about everybody then goes back to just speaking specifically about the disciples That doesn't make that that's not that's not very clear but But we already know that he did choose us Chose us to be in him. He chose us according to Ephesians and roman's eight that we were That we were chosen predestined to be conformed To the image so to be changed Into the image now. I want to put this pass on the screen. You you interpret this passage for me. This is Where's it at? Here it is In Ephesians 36 I put on the screen for you This is this is God. This is after We discussed if he is equal 18 About if a righteous man start doing doing unrighteousness. So the remedy that God has because again in Ezekiel 18 The person is righteous. Why why why is a part? How is a person in Ezekiel 18? How are they ever righteous to begin with? Say that again, Cory in Ezekiel 18 What caused that that person to be unrighteous to begin with I mean to be righteous What caused that person in Ezekiel 18 these Jews to be righteous to begin with? I would have to read that to be honest with you. I don't want to sit up here and say that I actually know I would have to read okay, well remember they're under the law still And so the only thing that could make you righteous In God's eyes was the atonement Right, that's the only thing there was nothing else to make you righteous And so if a person is righteous and then starts doing unrighteousness Well, he can be righteous again if he Goes through the atonement again places faith in what's what's happening afflict themselves on the day of atonement and so forth He can become righteous again the problem that we've always seen with Israel With the Jews or with us too is that we are disobedient We are always going astray and so what makes a person unrighteous is his sin And so what is God going to do? Well, he gets to the remedy in chapter 36 And so let's read this and you tell me how we should take this he says God says Then this is after by the way, this is after God puts Israel back into the land He says what he's going to do after he's he brings him about from being scattered amongst the nations He's going to bring them back and put them back into their land And then he says then after that then I will sprinkle Clean water on you and you will be clean I will cleanse you from all your filthiness. This is God saying what he will do verse 26 more over Here it is I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh And look what he says I will put my spirit the holy spirit within you and he says and cause you To walk in my statute and you will be careful to observe my ordinances When he says I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk Isn't that him Kind of in in in some instances to some degree overriding or making us do some things Does the spirit do any does the spirit move us anyway because he used the word I will cause you and in the Hebrew. It means just that I will cause you. I will make you Do this. I will make it. I will fix it for you to do this So you're asking me is that implying that he's going to override our will What when it says I will cause you to walk in my statutes. What does that mean to you? I will cause you to walk in my statutes. That could mean a plethora of things to be honest with you You could bring a person into chastisement and now you have convinced them that their ways You know are going to always render a consequence and now they choose to walk in The the god statues There are many ways that god can bring us to walking into his statues that he doesn't he's not going to override our will In our thinking. Let me ask you a question Before we go, I'll just ask a question But he tells us how he's going to do it. The right has he overrode your will Do yeah, he has yes. He has he's given me a new heart and a new nature That's why he says I will put my spirit in you and cause you to walk in my teachings So we know the agent that's going to be in us to cause us to walk Now does it fully override as though I can't make a thought of my own or or move on my own? I can't choose blue or red or green on my own. No I still have some volition. I'm not saying that I don't have the ability to choose But what's in me now Moves me now the holy spirit is in me greater is he this in me And so because the spirits in me or else what is the point of the holy spirit in me? What's he doing just hanging out? No, the holy spirit is actually working in me Moving in me. And so there's this reminder. There's this pushing. It's going to cause me to walk in him That's just what it is now. It doesn't override me completely for example If you go to to the hospital, you're in a bad accident and they just pump you full of morphine pump you full of morphine and Through no fault of your own. You are addicted to that morphine Is that morphine going to cause you to do anything? When you get out Say yeah, because everybody who had everybody's had it like that. Say I've never had morphine, but I go with the yes Okay, if someone Silly silly analogy if someone put a whole bunch of crack in you a whole bunch of meth in you You've been doing meth for I don't know a year five years crackler. Is it going to cause you to do something? Yes, sir. Yeah, if that if that man-made chemical agent is going to cause you to do something Well, then will the holy spirit cause you to do anything? A lot. Can I answer it my way? I don't want to just say yes and no. Yeah, all right Answer your way. Okay. Let me answer it my way. I don't believe that you can apply The realities of drugs or or the aspects of drugs to the operation of the holy spirit I want to start there, but also I would say this you and I do agree that the holy spirit It causes us to it creates a holy spirit in us It creates a new heart in us, right? So I agree with that. I'm not disputing that I would I wouldn't be a minister if I preach against that But what I'm what I'm saying emphatically to you is that If I'm not able to choose Right, if I'm not able to choose then I am not worthy of the kingdom of heaven if if I got there because God made me this cosmic spiritual robot But no, I have to choose to walk after the spirit to actually obtain The kingdom of heaven and and when I'm saying the kingdom of heaven I'm talking about even as it comes down to the earth and all of that I'm just using the word kingdom of heaven I have to choose to walk after the spirit because if I don't choose to walk after the spirit Then there is no evidence of my love for God If I don't choose to abide in God But he's making me abide in him because I have the holy spirit I have to choose to walk in the spirit And so now you said it this way you said it this way and a lot we agree with I'm not here to debate and argue I'm here to bring clarity where I feel clarity is needed or to even hear your your clarity But you said it this way. You say I'm not fully controlled So we're are we not saying the same thing when I says now the holy spirit came in me And it gave me all the tools to live holy. I don't have to sin Now that that's something that some of you all teach y'all teach that because we're in the body that we're going to always sin I don't I'm not going to go so far there today because that that's a whole another teaching But I don't believe that the sons of God born of the spirit born of God just simply have to sin Okay, hold on. Let's stay there. Let's stay there. Let's stay there. You said and keep them with that You've got all the tools Would you say you have all the tools do what to live holy by the holy spirit is the only tool I got all the tools to live holy the tools to do what to make you choose him To live holy Okay, before the holy spirit was given could you live holy? I could live holy according to the law Okay, before the holy spirit was given could you place your faith in God and follow him? I Could follow him, but I could I according to the bible according to the bible Without faith it is impossible to please god And I didn't have the faith of the son of god in me until the holy spirit came in me Oh, so the holy spirit did that Yes, but I'm not I'm never gonna speak against the holy spirit brother I know you're not I know you're not I know you're not my point is when you say he gave he gives us the tools That's that amount to really send the same thing. I'm saying you don't have it in you to be consistent We got we had examples of people that believe for a hot second But the bible never calls them as believers They believe for a good minute and then ah, you know what? I see something better over there that they were anyone can do that anyone can say I believe what god did I treat yeah, and then five seconds later. Well, we know that's not the same That's like here. I'm signing up a tuba lessons And then after them got the dog on tuba paid all this money I want to play basketball. No, you know, you're not you better go. You better Or I want to take skating lessons, right? Right It was never in them same thing with other people we can say I believe Excuse me So the point is the holy spirit in us moves us Nobody that you ever met on the planet Prior now or later has ever sought after that's what that's what the writer says There are none that seek after me and so since we didn't seek after him He sought after us because he knows it's one thing now. This is where I differ from Calvinist I don't believe that we were incapable of choosing him. I just believe we were unwilling We don't want to we we having too much fun living our sinful life And so he has to choose us to know because we'll never seek after him We'll never choose him. So he chooses us and when he does we become a brand new creature We we have a new disposition Because our heart has changed And that is what he does our heart being changed when we make a choice now Is uh, it's it's a choice made after we've got a brand new heart This brand new heart is the heart was the issue The heart is always it's desperately wicked And from the moment we were born from the one we are just deceptive and going astray So what does he do? He remedies the heart problem That's what the law couldn't do remedies the heart right gives a brand new heart. So now Now I might say to myself. I want to choose to do good But truth be told it's the spirit in me that that's really done that for me and that's fine I I do want to choose good. I do The problem is he says choose life or choose death. We would choose death anyway every day of the week But now we got a new heart a new disposition And I want to choose him when I'm when I sin when I mess up I'm grieved I'm it bothers me It even if someone had it coming you you said something crazy me and I went off it even bothers me I am grieved when I don't please him And so why I've got a new nature a new disposition as as as paul tells us The old things that pass. I am brand new And so that is because I am saved and if I'm saved I'm going to keep walking in that why because he has made it So if I found out now, I'm not seeing the robots because we do have to choose I can choose I can choose to go this way that way, but there's something That's like, huh, what's lead us not in temptation So we even know even that prayer that God has given us to have the model Lead us well there there's a leading that we are going to fall under And so because of that Because of that, I'm going to do it and that's how I can check and see Am I really now you might not know it They may not I might be so good at lying and being deceptive that everybody believes I'm a christian Everybody believed that Simon the sorcerer was was was actually right until uh, he wanted to buy the Holy Spirit and Peter got on it Everybody would have believed that Peter Deserted God that Peter was was no good that he lost it But coming to find out and all Peter was one of the best ever However, Jesus even said that you're going to die me, but when you return And so what god if god puts the fix in let me just put it this way if god puts the fix in It's going to be fixed If that if someone interprets that as us being cosmic or holy robots, amen Amen reboot me some more lord if that's what it means because on my own And on my own desire. I'm not coming to god for what I got too much fun Sinning I got I'm having I'm having too much fun doing me now If I get half a second before I die to come to christ I'll take that which really isn't which really isn't faith But I place my faith in him because I know my heart's been changed I've been born again. My heart has been renewed And that's what causes me what what he says in his eco That causes me to walk in his teachings and because of that Jeremiah. Jesus god is clear I will never turn from them and God says so and then we me and you who are saved will never turn away from him And I don't think you can I don't think there's really any there's no daylight to run between there He's not turning away. We're not turning away. And if none of us turn away from each other, then guess what? We're going to be together forever Absolutely Let me give you a few more minutes to go ahead and say what you're going to say now I gotta I gotta get up on you. You know, national championship zone tonight. Yeah Well, I just say this um yesterday when I was ministering I said that I said that I would be talking to you On my broadcast and and today I'm talking to you. So I knew that know that this is of god Um, I'm in texas. So more than like we will we'll link up and well, yeah I'm in houston spring texas. Oh, you're in bad part texas. I'll see you. Yeah, you and you and you Oh, no, I'm in good. I mean, I'm in the good side But brother, I've enjoyed this conversation, man Uh-oh, I don't mess up some hold on one sec. I got a dog on it. I don't push this button. I turn the game on All right. I'm sorry I've enjoyed this conversation. I have to You know, you keep on doing what you're doing, man We we agree and we disagree on certain issues But one thing that we don't um disagree on is the power of the holy spirit And you know, and I agree that you are a brother and a man of god and I appreciate brothers like you Amen, brother. Listen, I appreciate the conversation too. Let me just say this and we can we can agree We'll go ahead and move on out of here matter. I'm going to let you go now, brother. Listen anytime um Anytime, uh, you want to come on, uh, the door's open. I I appreciate this conversation because I think I think we're gonna win you over So anyway, let's go and let you go I think I'm gonna win you over Will so let me but I I'll I'm gonna let you go so let you listen on my way out guys I believe this and I'm pretty sure Mike believes this Uh, whether you believe you can lose your salvation or not We all believe that you better have christ And whether you believe in one saved always saved or you can lose it We all believe you better place your faith in christ if you have not done so yet You have the opportunity Based on what he's done on the cross to do what you could not do what you would not want to do You can say lord I just I trust what you did and I trust that what you did was enough There's no more a debt that's oh you paid it and you just place your faith in that if you do that However, you want to say it the bible is clear. You will be saved. I believe you'll be saved forever. Amen. Amen